March 26, 2018 Show with Chris Krotz on “Preventing & Breaking the Chains of Pornography Addiction”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio platform on which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron. So one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions. Now, here's our host Chris.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania. Lake City, Florida. And the rest of humanity living on the planet earth. Or listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com. This is Chris Arnz and your host of iron sharpens iron radio.

Wishing you all a happy Monday on this 26th day of March 2018. I'm delighted to have in studio with me for the very first time as a guest on iron sharpens iron Chris croats who is not only a local minister, but he is also the volunteer photographer at many of the iron sharpens iron radio events here locally in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

And He is co-founder of an organization called overcome. Which is based on seeking to prevent and break the chains of pornography. Addiction for those involved in that sin. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to iron sharpens iron radio Chris croats.

How's it going Chris? It's going great. And if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question about pornography addiction. Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. That's C H R I S A R N Z E N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name. City and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA. And of course a subject like this is certainly going to lend itself. To people wanting to remain anonymous if they are personally involved in this sin, or if they have friends family and loved ones colleagues neighbors and so on involved in this sin.

We will definitely Rick. We'll grant your request to remain anonymous if it is a personal and private Question that you are asking but otherwise if it's just a general question. Please give us at least your first name.

City and state and country of residence. First of all before we even go into your own personal history on this subject Chris tell us about overcome exactly what it is.

The Mission of Overcome and How It Helps People

Is a Ministry that my friend like you said my friend and I we started about five years ago and both he and I had struggled with this sin in the past and we had tried pretty much everything that we could think of to get rid of it to overcome it and We ended up doing that.

The one thing that we didn't want to do was to talk to other people about it. But we decided that we both needed this and we've been developing this system of accountability for five years now and we have I Meet with guys all over the country in the world now helping them overcome their addiction to pornography and.

What exactly it does overcome. Do I know it's a website? So how do you interact with people who are seeking help with this?

So we have a we have a podcast that we put out we try to put it out of bi-weekly and. On that we respond to questions that we get. We respond or we we answer questions about. You know, how do I tell my wife about this?

You know, how do I how do I talk to my kids about these things? So we have the podcast we also put out articles almost every week. And we also have a Video series called basic that we're in the process of putting out kind of walking people through if you don't know anything about pornography addiction.

Or you know how it works and how to get free from it. That's the that's the goal of this video series is so people can understand what it is.

And is this a video series you yourself created or are you using the yeah?

Okay, so we I record it along with my photography skills. I also do some videography. So I I do all of that and I put it out on YouTube and it's everything on the site is completely free. We just want to help we want to be able to educate people and And teach and help if you need it.

And of course, God willing I'll be Repeating this information later if I don't forget to but hopefully Chris will remind me if I forget but for now. The website is when I am weak Org, that's right when I am weak org a very fitting website address.

Well.

Now, let's hear something about your own personal history. What led you to even want to start a ministry such as this with a. With a sin that is quite scandalous a sin that most Christians would feel very uncomfortable.

Even let being letting it known being letting it known public that they either have been or are involved in it.

And.

I first of all, I want to congratulate you with the boldness that you have that you are so concerned over the souls of people who are enslaved by the sin that you are willing to make it known that you have Unfortunately and tragically been snared by this as well in your past.

But tell us about your own history with this.

Early Exposure, Abuse, and the Start of Addiction

Absolutely. So I'll give you the shortened version Chris because I could. You know, I talk about. I can talk about my past for a long time. But basically I was introduced to pornography.

By.

Looking at Playboy magazines that my neighbor had when I was around 10 years old. And unfortunately that kind of ignited the curiosity in this whole thing around that time. Unfortunately, I was also a victim of some sexual abuse in my childhood and that only just Worsened, you know this curiosity and that had some shame and I'm sure we're gonna talk about that later of what shame can do to especially to a young person and Then trying to find out especially in your early teenage years trying to find out who you are and what this whole You know sexual awakening is and being attracted to girls and stuff like that.

So that did a lot like most abuse does did a lot of damage through that. I basically wanted to Overcompensate for the abuse that happened and so before I became a Christian I was the guy in High school, especially when I was around the other guys and football in the locker room that I would be the one that was bragging about the things that I've seen and the you know, the the videos that I've watched and stuff just very very.

Over.

Sexualized a lot of things in in my life. Through that we got Internet in the house. We got satellite TV in the house, which only helped to Worsen this addiction and now I had access to it whenever I wanted.

I became a Christian when I was 16 years old and then Now I know that I have a problem not only I mean I knew Going through that whole thing, but this wasn't right. But now that I'm a Christian now, I knew okay.

Not only is this just Morally wrong now. This is a this is separating me separating me between me and God but this is sin and I have to deal with this and so I got on this cycle of You know, I'd go to camp.

I would be good for a month or so I would be able to last that long go to a youth rally. It might be good for a week here. Really good sermon, you know, it really convict me and I would rededicate myself that might last a week.

And so I was on the cycle of continually, you know battling this thing until I don't want to say until because it continued through this but a year after high school my wife and I we got married and Foolishly, I thought well I'll be married now and that will just take care of the problem I won't have to do anything because that's what married people do.

And that did not work out and sadly to say My wife found out about it. She confronted me about it. Of course a lot of anger a lot of tears through that whole thing and I told her I'll never do it again.

The problem was is that I didn't do anything about it. I just thought I'll just decide not to do it again and around this time. I Kind of knew that this was an addiction that this is something Bigger than just you know, the stuff that I'm watching I for some reason I cannot stop I cannot make the decision just to stop watching it and A year later a year after we got married We had our first child together and I told myself then all right, I got to be done with this Again I didn't do anything about it and then you know, we had another kid and another kid I would make these same promises, but never really do anything about it and then Really, you know to make a long story short here.

This cycle continued and continued and I kind of became an expert on pornography addiction because I was trying to find my way out of it and But I didn't want to talk to anyone about it. And so on the outside people viewed me as Oh Chris knows a lot about pornography addiction.

You should go talk to him while on the inside I was still very much caught up in it and didn't know didn't really know what the way out was. I End up going to preaching school, which is a two-year program and towards the end of that.

I get Hired on by a congregation that that they're gonna take me as soon as I graduate. And I saw I'm six months out from graduation and I is probably my lowest point Chris is This Thinking of all right.

I'm going to go to this church and people are going to be looking to me. I'm going to be leading people. They're gonna be looking to me for the answers and for one thing an answer to this problem that is a big problem in the church today and yet I can't find my way my own way out of this so It was really a desperation move.

I go to the bookstore the Christian bookstore and You know, perhaps I've already read most of the books out there that deal with this subject and I thought maybe I'll find something. And I don't know if it was Providence or what but I see a new book and I read it and it It said something said to do something that I had yet to try and like I said It was the one thing that I didn't want to do and that was to talk to people about it.

And so I read the book. I said, all right, let's give this a shot. I bought two more copies of that book and I mailed it to two of my friends. One of them was Jack Dodgen which is the my co-founder of overcome in my co-host on our podcast and He's he read it and says yeah, I need this to my other friend he read it and he said yeah, I need this too and so that's how we started and it's been a process and I can't say that it has been 100 Perfect on my part or anyone's part.

That's that I've helped but it has been a lot better. And we're dealing with this sin. The way that the Bible tells us to deal with any sin and that is to confess it to get out from underneath it because is Sin any sin but particularly this sin it thrives in the darkness.

It festers it multiplies in the darkness and the only way to get out of it is to shed the light on it. And that's what we do. By confessing it to each other by telling people. Hey, this is I messed up this week.

This is what happened. Pray for me. And it has been extremely effective. I've helped Many men and women and married couples all throughout the world. It was it's kind of crazy how this thing grew that people kind of like your your radio show here you don't know who's listening or who's reading the articles and stuff and you get a an email from someone over in Asia that read something and said hey my husband needs some help and I get emails weekly from people just like that all over the country and The ministry really is about that.

We just want to help we want to do we believe that God has gifted us with certain abilities and We're using the pain of our past to help people with wherever they are.

And can you tell us the title and author of this book? That was the first thing that caught your attention?

Absolutely, this is one of the the books that I recommend to anyone that you know. I start an accountability group with or I start talking to. I tell them to go get the book title is open and the author.

Is Craig gross?

Grosses.

Open by Craig gross and is. Is everything in the book something that you're on the same page with currently or did you Move beyond the material there. Do you think that there was some things in error in the book.

Obviously Craig I don't know not familiar with him, but he is not inspired by the Holy Spirit like the like the authors of Scripture were.

So tell us about that. So Craig gross is a I don't know his you know Religious background as far as you know, what church he worships that but he is a self-professed Christian. The book that. And he's he has several books out about the same subject.

Open was just the one that I that I saw that kind of detailed his style of accountability groups and that's what that's what the book is about, you know open being open and honest about the stuff that you're going through and He is a self-professed Christian, but we did take and adapt his You know his style of accountability.

To our liking we he didn't have a lot of I Don't know even though he is a Christian he didn't have a lot of God stuff in the group like, you know including prayer in there and Strengthening each other with the word and and stuff like that.

And so we we added a bunch of that to it and I would think that would be the most important. That's my argument. Saying that one of our requirements in our groups is that you have to pray for everyone in your group Every day now, I mean, we're not gonna kick you out if you say well I missed a day, but that just it just shows how How much we believe in the power of prayer?

That I mean if if we're going It would be the the biggest mistake would be we would be foolish to leave God out of something like this. And I know that there are several other systems that are out there that they do exactly that and I think that could be one of the biggest mistakes you could make is try to take God out of this out of this picture because He he is the answer.

He is the answer right there. Praise God and.

What one word you have used which is a common word that is used by Any counselor or should I say many counselors and pastors and those involved in any kind of rehabilitation or therapy that the term addiction now I am as Most people who listen regularly to I interpret as iron radio.

I am someone who has been rescued from drunkenness habitual unrepentant serious drunkenness after After 18 years of sobriety After coming to Christ because I was a very serious drunkard before coming to Christ and when I came to Christ a repenting of drunkenness was one of the initial things that I did.

And then after 18 years of sobriety, I tragically fell back into this serious sin, which is not only Physically deadly and dangerous but spiritually as well as we are warned by the Apostle Paul Among other things that drunkards shall not enter the kingdom of heaven, of course until they are washed and sanctified by the Holy Spirit and repent of this but The word addiction the one of the things that If I use it personally as a way to describe my former life And that subject in general I typically will have to be careful not to lead people to the wrong conclusion that very often in the realm of of addictive therapy People are being told this is a disease.

It's a sickness. Don't blame yourself for this you know, you have to take responsibility and you have to Come to the point where you Leave this addiction behind and so on and break yourself from it with the help of whatever group that person or group is promoting but the Therapeutic language of addiction bothers me to a great extent Unless it has some kind of explanation behind it because I believe that we must take responsibility for these activities and Thoughts and so on that are indeed sin.

Would you agree with that? Absolutely. Absolutely. I you know, you think about circumstance, right. And the could I control the things that happen to me with with my abuse or or my Exposure to pornography.

Absolutely not, you know that that that happened. I didn't want that to happen. Obviously, but it did and now you know as as I'm an adult now I could look back at that and be very blaming right like well, that's that's the reason why I struggle with this or Growing up in a household without a father, you know that I could blame him saying that's the reason why.

But at a certain point We're all making our own decisions. We're all choosing to Sin or not to sin. We're all choosing. You know what to click on on our computers or what we're scrolling on our phones.

It's our individual choice and as much as your circumstance might make you more prone to the addiction That I mean it really falls on you because you're the one who's deciding to live a certain way. Deciding to do or not do the things that you are.

Yes people very often would whatever sin it may be they Cultivate that and nurture that sin until it grows into something much more Evil and much worse. Yeah. In fact, I don't know if you have seen the interview that a notorious serial killer Ted Bundy gave with Dr. Dobson James Dobson where he was tracing.

How.

He believes he eventually became a serial killer. It started with the same. What today would be considered? Cub Scout level of.

Evil.

Just looking at dirty magazines. And of course we who are Christian know that there is really no such thing as a Cub Scout level of evil because That without the grace and mercy and blood of Christ would send someone to hell just that kind of a simple thing.

That's simple and compared to other things going on in our society, but he cultivated this and and when he became bored of The pornography he was viewing it had to get much more bizarre for him to be stimulated by it.

Yeah, and satisfied by it until he reached the point where it was a bondage S &M type of material and then just going worse and worse so I believe it reached the level of snuff flicks where people are either Truly or at least being depicted as being murdered in these pornographic films and so on.

This.

Is something that is a snowball effect, isn't it? Absolutely and.

It's interesting that you bring up Ted Bundy because I use his One of his quotes from that same interview that you brought up to illustrate a point and I.

Can read it if you'd like. Oh, yeah, definitely. All right, and this was not planned folks.

The quote is this he says I've lived in prison for a long time now. And I've met a lot of men who are motivated to commit violence without exception. Every one of them was deeply involved in pornography.

Deeply consumed by the by the addiction. That's Ted Bundy talking to talking about exactly what you just mentioned of how how he how could someone do all of these? Heinous acts that he did and it started with you know, cub scout level of pornography, you know stuff that probably very similar things that I was Introduced to that I was exposed to when I was 10 years old and and you know Millions and millions of kids are being introduced to every single day now the the snowball effect that you mentioned is Really your brain chasing the dopamine.

The dopamine is Connected to the pleasure centers in your brain. It's when you know when you eat pizza. It's you have dopamine released in your brain saying oh that was good. Let's do that again. Now the problem with dopamine is that it craves novelty and what I mean by that is that it's always seeking something new.

There's a reason why we don't eat pizza for every single meal of the day for an entire week.

Because we get old. Speak for yourself.

But I mean you understand the the idea there right is it gets old after a while and the same thing is true with something Pornography that you know a soft core type film Doesn't get you aroused anymore.

It doesn't excite you anymore. And so you need to seek something more Hardcore and now nowadays with the the amount of filth that's on the internet the the types of pornography that are being portrayed is just it's.

It's crazy. It's crazy how violent The pornography has become and what's even crazier Chris is that this violent type of pornography is What most kids nowadays are being exposed to first? They're seeing this this crazy Dehumanizing very violent type of pornography and that does.

It's it's trauma. It's traumatizing to a young person's brain and it just it sets them the path towards addiction much Sooner and much easier than it was for myself and definitely for you.

We are gonna go to a break right now and before I go to the break I'm gonna read a question from a listener in Slovenia Joe and Slovenia and I'll have you answer the question when we return. He says dear brothers Chris Here in Europe as you may know soft porn is virtually everywhere displayed in public advertising entertainment and other media.

Most young boys and Teenagers are exposed to hardcore porn on their cell phones or those of their peers daily. How should the church address this reality. In what forums and ways should believers be speaking to the church and society?

About pornography. That is this pervasive. May our God provide for all your needs in the riches of the glory of Jesus Christ. Well, I'll have the you mull that over and I'll repeat it. Of course when we return from the break.

But if anybody else would like to join us, our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris ar n z e n gmail .com. Please give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA.

And of course, you may remain anonymous if your personal involves. If your question involves a personal and private matter. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Chris croats and Overcoming the bondage of addiction to pornography right after these messages from our sponsors.

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That's solid dash ground books calm. Please tell Mike Gadosh the founder of Solid ground Christian books that you heard about this sale through Chris Arnson on iron sharpens iron radio. We are now back with our discussion on preventing and breaking the chains of pornography addiction with our guest Chris croats co-founder with Jack dodged in.

Dodgen.

Dodgen yes Of overcome which is a ministry helping those who are currently battling this sin that's overcome. And He is. Chris croats is also a volunteer photographer for many events that iron sharpens iron radio Puts on in this area.

And if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Chris involving the issue of pornography our Email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com. Chris ar n ze n gmail .com. Please give us your first name your city and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA.

And you may remain Anonymous if this question involves a personal and private matter. And Not only is this the first time Chris croats has been a guest on iron sharpens iron But this is the first time that we have addressed this specific issue for two hours on the show Before the break.

As you know Chris our listener in Slovenia Joe says dear brothers. Chris here in Europe as you may know Soft porn is virtually everywhere displayed in public advertising entertainment and other media.

Most young boys and teenagers are exposed to hard porn on their cell phones or those of their peers daily. How should the church address this reality? And what forms and ways should believers be speaking to the church and society about pornography that is this pervasive?

And first of all, is there a difference between what he is saying is going on in Europe than here in the United States?

Pornography, Human Trafficking, and the Church’s Response

I think it might be a little different. I Just had a friend actually that deals with pornography go over to I can't remember what European country but it was a is a big problem over there human trafficking is huge over there and Which I mean I've never been to Slovenia.

But many of these European countries we're seeing this is becoming a major problem and what he described his words were Some of these brothels that you can go into or much like our grocery stores that we have here.

It is very commonplace it is so accepted over there and We aren't we aren't to that point over here yet. Yeah, and I say yet because we very easily could be there in a matter of a decade or two but because of that and you know, that's their foundation then the Pornography addiction is going to be just that much more entrenched in Society, you know over here.

It's it's normal, right? You know guys I was I was in the military for a large Portion of my life and it's a joke, you know, you it's it's joked about but over there It is very much a way of life and because of that that's why we see the the human trafficking Problem over there.

That's why we're starting to see a rise in human trafficking over here Because like he's like we were talking about before it's a snowball effect that after a while Viewing images or or video on a screen isn't enough and you need to start acting out the fantasies that you're having with an actual person and That is a terrible a terrible place to be but You know, what's the answer then and I think the the the listener? said he asked, you know, how should the church respond to this and Before I answer that Let me just with a few stats show the seriousness of this.

Definitely. Definitely and how it's in the church because I've talked to several ministers who say I don't think we have that problem here and I I just I shake my head because it's Because the nature of the sin and how people keep it so secret you might never know.

If someone is struggling or not, right. Because this is a sin, you know, there was not so long ago a decade or two ago. That in order for somebody to be involved in this they'd have to actually get in their car and drive to an adult.

Theater.

Perhaps go to a adult book slash video store and rent these things and perhaps put on a disguise or something and.

Now.

Somebody right there in their computer while they are studying the Bible online. They can just with one click the privacy of their darkened basement or wherever they have their computer. They were all sudden watching pornography and In fact, I had a humorous thing that just popped into my head.

I have a dear friend. Who's a minister? Out on Long Island, New York and one day he took me to his favorite Japanese restaurant. And he pulls up to the place and parks his car and I said To him a brother.

Do you do you always park your car here when you go to the Japanese restaurant? He goes. Yeah, why? Well, do you realize that you're parked right in front of a strip club because there were no signs there were no signs that would lend you to automatically know that and the strip club was right next to the Japanese restaurant and I happen to know it was a strip club because unfortunately before I was a Christian as a teenager and a young man in my 20s I had occasion to visit there, but He was he was mortified because I said, you know people driving by they see your car, which is a very noticeable beat-up.