March 26, 2018 Show with Chris Krotz on “Preventing & Breaking the Chains of Pornography Addiction”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio

platform on which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron.

So one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour.

And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions.

Now, here's our host Chris.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania.

Lake City, Florida.

And the rest of humanity living on the planet earth.

Or listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com.

This is Chris Arnz and your host of iron sharpens iron radio.

Wishing you all a happy Monday on this 26th day of March 2018.

I'm delighted to have in studio with me for the very first time as a guest on iron

sharpens iron Chris croats who is not only a local minister, but he is also the

volunteer photographer at many of the iron sharpens iron radio events

here locally in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

And He is co -founder of an organization called overcome.

Which is based on seeking to prevent and break the chains of pornography.

Addiction for those involved in that sin.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to iron sharpens iron radio Chris croats.

How's it going Chris?

It's going great.

And if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question about pornography addiction.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

That's C H R I S A R N Z E N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name.

City and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA.

And of course a subject like this is certainly going to lend itself.

To people wanting to remain anonymous if they are personally involved in this sin, or if they have friends family and loved ones

colleagues neighbors and so on involved in this sin.

We will definitely Rick.

We'll grant your request to remain anonymous if it is a personal and private Question

that you are asking but otherwise if it's just a general question.

Please give us at least your first name.

City and state and country of residence.

First of all before we even go into your own personal history on this subject Chris tell us about

overcome exactly what it is.

Is a Ministry that my friend like you said my friend and I we started about five

years ago and both he and I had struggled with this sin in the past and

we had tried pretty much everything that we could think of to get rid of it to

overcome it and We ended up doing that.

The one thing that we didn't want to do was to talk to other people about it.

But we decided that we both needed this and we've been developing this system of

accountability for five years now and we have I Meet with

guys all over the country in the world now helping them overcome their

addiction to pornography and.

What exactly it does overcome.

Do I know it's a website?

So how do you interact with people who are seeking help with this?

So we have a we have a podcast that we put out we try to put it out of bi -weekly and.

On that we respond to questions that we get.

We respond or we we answer questions about.

You know, how do I tell my wife about this?

You know, how do I how do I talk to my kids about these things?

So we have the podcast we also put out articles almost every week.

And we also have a Video series called basic that we're in the process of putting out

kind of walking people through if you don't know anything about pornography addiction.

Or you know how it works and how to get free from it.

That's the that's the goal of this video series is so people can understand what it is.

And is this a video series you yourself created or are you using the yeah?

Okay, so we I record it along with my photography skills.

I also do some videography.

So I I do all of that and I put it out on YouTube and it's everything on the site is completely free.

We just want to help we want to be able to educate people and And teach and help if

you need it.

And of course, God willing I'll be Repeating this information later if I don't forget to but

hopefully Chris will remind me if I forget but for now.

The website is when I am weak Org, that's right when I am weak org a very

fitting website address.

Well.

Now, let's hear something about your own personal history.

What led you to even want to start a ministry such as this with a.

With a sin that is quite scandalous a sin that most Christians would feel very

uncomfortable.

Even let being letting it known being letting it known public that they

either have been or are involved in it.

And.

I first of all, I want to congratulate you with the boldness that you have that you are so

concerned over the souls of people who are enslaved by the sin that you are

willing to make it known that you have Unfortunately and tragically been snared by this

as well in your past.

But tell us about your own history with this.

Absolutely.

So I'll give you the shortened version Chris because I could.

You know, I talk about.

I can talk about my past for a long time.

But basically I was introduced to pornography.

By.

Looking at Playboy magazines that my neighbor had when I was around 10 years old.

And unfortunately that kind of ignited the curiosity in this whole thing

around that time.

Unfortunately, I was also a victim of some sexual abuse in my

childhood and that only just Worsened, you know this curiosity and that had some shame and

I'm sure we're gonna talk about that later of what shame can do to especially to a young person and

Then trying to find out especially in your early teenage years trying to find out who you are and what this whole

You know sexual awakening is and being attracted to girls and stuff like

that.

So that did a lot like most abuse does did a lot of damage through that.

I basically wanted to Overcompensate for the abuse that happened and

so before I became a Christian I was the guy in High school,

especially when I was around the other guys and football in the locker room that I would be the one that was

bragging about the things that I've seen and the you know, the the videos that I've watched

and stuff just very very.

Over.

Sexualized a lot of things in in my life.

Through that we got Internet in the house.

We got satellite TV in the house, which only helped to Worsen this addiction and now I

had access to it whenever I wanted.

I became a Christian when I was 16 years old and then Now I know that I have a

problem not only I mean I knew Going through that whole thing, but this wasn't right.

But now that I'm a Christian now, I knew okay.

Not only is this just Morally wrong now.

This is a this is separating me separating me between me and God but this is sin and I have to deal

with this and so I got on this cycle of You know, I'd go to camp.

I would be good for a month or so I would be able to last that long go to a youth

rally.

It might be good for a week here.

Really good sermon, you know, it really convict me and I would rededicate myself that might last a

week.

And so I was on the cycle of continually, you know battling this thing until

I don't want to say until because it continued through this but a year after high school my wife and I

we got married and Foolishly, I thought well I'll be married now

and that will just take care of the problem I won't have to do anything because that's what married people do.

And that did not work out and sadly to say My wife found out

about it.

She confronted me about it.

Of course a lot of anger a lot of tears through that whole thing and I told her I'll never do it again.

The problem was is that I didn't do anything about it.

I just thought I'll just decide not to do it again and around this time.

I Kind of knew that this was an addiction that this is something

Bigger than just you know, the stuff that I'm watching I for some reason I cannot stop

I cannot make the decision just to stop watching it and A year later a year

after we got married We had our first child together and I told myself then all right, I got to be done with

this Again I didn't do anything about it and then you know, we had another kid and another kid

I would make these same promises, but never really do anything about it and then Really, you

know to make a long story short here.

This cycle continued and continued and I kind of became an expert on

pornography addiction because I was trying to find my way out of it and But I didn't want to talk to anyone about it.

And so on the outside people viewed me as Oh Chris knows a lot about pornography addiction.

You should go talk to him while on the inside I was still very much caught up in it and didn't know didn't

really know what the way out was.

I End up going to preaching school, which is a two -year program and towards the end of that.

I get Hired on by a congregation that that they're gonna take me

as soon as I graduate.

And I saw I'm six months out from graduation and I is probably my lowest

point Chris is This Thinking

of all right.

I'm going to go to this church and people are going to be looking to me.

I'm going to be leading people.

They're gonna be looking to me for the answers and for one thing an

answer to this problem that is a big problem in the church today and yet I can't find my way my own

way out of this so It was really a desperation move.

I go to the bookstore the Christian bookstore and You know, perhaps I've already read most of the books

out there that deal with this subject and I thought maybe I'll find something.

And I don't know if it was Providence or what but I see a new book and I read it and it

It said something said to do something that I had yet to try and like I said It was the one thing that I

didn't want to do and that was to talk to people about it.

And so I read the book.

I said, all right, let's give this a shot.

I bought two more copies of that book and I mailed it to two of my friends.

One of them was Jack Dodgen which is the my co -founder of

overcome in my co -host on our podcast and He's

he read it and says yeah, I need this to my other friend he read it and he said yeah, I need this too and so that's how we started and

it's been a process and I can't say that it has been 100 Perfect

on my part or anyone's part.

That's that I've helped but it has been a lot better.

And we're dealing with this sin.

The way that the Bible tells us to deal with any sin and that is to confess it to get out from underneath it

because is Sin any sin but particularly this sin it thrives

in the darkness.

It festers it multiplies in the darkness and the only way to get out of it is to shed the light

on it.

And that's what we do.

By confessing it to each other by telling people.

Hey, this is I messed up this week.

This is what happened.

Pray for me.

And it has been extremely effective.

I've helped Many men and women and married couples all throughout the

world.

It was it's kind of crazy how this thing grew that people kind of like your your radio show

here you don't know who's listening or who's reading the articles and stuff and you get a

an email from someone over in Asia that read something and said hey my husband needs some help and

I get emails weekly from people just like that all over the country and The

ministry really is about that.

We just want to help we want to do we believe that God has gifted us with certain

abilities and We're using the pain of our past to help people with

wherever they are.

And can you tell us the title and author of this book?

That was the first thing that caught your attention?

Absolutely, this is one of the the books that I recommend to anyone that you know.

I start an accountability group with or I start talking to.

I tell them to go get the book title is open and the author.

Is Craig gross?

Grosses.

Open by Craig gross and is.

Is everything in the book something that you're on the same page with currently or did you Move

beyond the material there.

Do you think that there was some things in error in the book.

Obviously Craig I don't know not familiar with him, but he is not inspired

by the Holy Spirit like the like the authors of Scripture were.

So tell us about that.

So Craig gross is a I don't know his you know Religious

background as far as you know, what church he worships that but he is a self -professed Christian.

The book that.

And he's he has several books out about the same subject.

Open was just the one that I that I saw that kind of detailed his style of accountability groups

and that's what that's what the book is about, you know open being open and honest about the stuff that you're going through and

He is a self -professed Christian, but we did take and adapt his

You know his style of accountability.

To our liking we he didn't have a lot of I

Don't know even though he is a Christian he didn't have a lot of God stuff in the group

like, you know including prayer in there and Strengthening each other

with the word and and stuff like that.

And so we we added a bunch of that to it and I would think that would be the most important.

That's my argument.

Saying that one of our requirements in our groups is that you have to pray for

everyone in your group Every day now, I mean, we're not gonna kick you out if you say well I missed a day, but

that just it just shows how How much we believe in the power of prayer?

That I mean if if we're going It would be the the biggest mistake would be we would be foolish to

leave God out of something like this.

And I know that there are several other systems that are out there that they do

exactly that and I think that could be one of the biggest mistakes you could make is try to take God

out of this out of this picture because He he is the answer.

He is the answer right there.

Praise God and.

What one word you have used which is a common word that is used by

Any counselor or should I say many counselors and

pastors and those involved in any kind of

rehabilitation or therapy that the term addiction now I am as

Most people who listen regularly to I interpret as iron radio.

I am someone who has been rescued from drunkenness habitual

unrepentant serious drunkenness after After 18 years of

sobriety After coming to Christ because I was a very serious drunkard

before coming to Christ and when I came to Christ a repenting of drunkenness was

one of the initial things that I did.

And then after 18 years of sobriety, I tragically fell back into this serious sin,

which is not only Physically deadly and dangerous but spiritually as well as we are warned

by the Apostle Paul Among other things that drunkards shall not enter the kingdom of heaven, of course

until they are washed and sanctified by the Holy Spirit and repent of this but

The word addiction the one of the things that If I use it personally as a

way to describe my former life And that subject in general I

typically will have to be careful not to lead people to the wrong conclusion that

very often in the realm of of

addictive therapy People are being told this is a disease.

It's a sickness.

Don't blame yourself for this you know, you have to take responsibility and you have to

Come to the point where you Leave this addiction behind and so on and break yourself from

it with the help of whatever group that person or group is promoting

but the Therapeutic language of addiction bothers me to a great extent

Unless it has some kind of explanation behind it because I believe that we must take

responsibility for these activities and Thoughts and so on that are

indeed sin.

Would you agree with that?

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

I you know, you think about circumstance, right.

And the could I control the things that happen to me with with my

abuse or or my Exposure to pornography.

Absolutely not, you know that that that happened.

I didn't want that to happen.

Obviously, but it did and now you know as as I'm an adult now I could look back at

that and be very blaming right like well, that's that's the reason why I

struggle with this or Growing up in a household without a father, you know that I

could blame him saying that's the reason why.

But at a certain point We're all making our own decisions.

We're all choosing to Sin or not to sin.

We're all choosing.

You know what to click on on our computers or what we're scrolling on our phones.

It's our individual choice and as much as your circumstance might make you more prone

to the addiction That I mean it really falls on you because you're the one

who's deciding to live a certain way.

Deciding to do or not do the things that you are.

Yes people very often would whatever sin it may be they Cultivate that and nurture

that sin until it grows into something much more Evil and much worse.

Yeah.

In fact, I don't know if you have seen the interview that

a notorious serial killer Ted Bundy gave with Dr. Dobson James

Dobson where he was tracing.

How.

He believes he eventually became a serial killer.

It started with the same.

What today would be considered?

Cub Scout level of.

Evil.

Just looking at dirty magazines.

And of course we who are Christian know that there is really no such thing as a Cub

Scout level of evil because That without the grace and mercy and blood of Christ would send someone to hell just

that kind of a simple thing.

That's simple and compared to other things going on in our society, but he cultivated this

and and when he became bored of The pornography he

was viewing it had to get much more bizarre for him to be stimulated by it.

Yeah, and satisfied by it until he reached the point where it was a bondage S

&M type of material and then just going worse and worse so I believe it reached the level of snuff

flicks where people are either Truly or at least being depicted as being murdered in these

pornographic films and so on.

This.

Is something that is a snowball effect, isn't it?

Absolutely and.

It's interesting that you bring up Ted Bundy because I use his One of his quotes from that

same interview that you brought up to illustrate a point and I.

Can read it if you'd like.

Oh, yeah, definitely.

All right, and this was not planned folks.

The quote is this he says I've lived in prison for a long time now.

And I've met a lot of men who are motivated to commit violence without exception.

Every one of them was deeply involved in pornography.

Deeply consumed by the by the addiction.

That's Ted Bundy talking to talking about exactly what you just mentioned of how how he how could

someone do all of these?

Heinous acts that he did and it started with you know, cub scout level

of pornography, you know stuff that probably very similar things that I was

Introduced to that I was exposed to when I was 10 years old and and you know Millions and millions of

kids are being introduced to every single day now the the

snowball effect that you mentioned is Really your brain chasing the dopamine.

The dopamine is Connected to the pleasure centers in your brain.

It's when you know when you eat pizza.

It's you have dopamine released in your brain saying oh that was good.

Let's do that again.

Now the problem with dopamine is that it craves novelty and what I mean by that is that it's always seeking

something new.

There's a reason why we don't eat pizza for every single meal of the day for an entire week.

Because we get old.

Speak for yourself.

But I mean you understand the the idea there right is it gets old after a while and the same

thing is true with something Pornography that you know a soft core type film

Doesn't get you aroused anymore.

It doesn't excite you anymore.

And so you need to seek something more Hardcore and now nowadays with the the amount of

filth that's on the internet the the types of pornography that are being portrayed is

just it's.

It's crazy.

It's crazy how violent The pornography has become and what's

even crazier Chris is that this violent type of pornography is What

most kids nowadays are being exposed to first?

They're seeing this this crazy Dehumanizing very violent

type of pornography and that does.

It's it's trauma.

It's traumatizing to a young person's brain and it just it sets them the path

towards addiction much Sooner and much easier than it was for

myself and definitely for you.

We are gonna go to a break right now and before I go to the break I'm gonna read a question from a listener in

Slovenia Joe and Slovenia and I'll have you answer the question when we return.

He says dear brothers Chris Here in Europe as you may know

soft porn is virtually everywhere displayed in public advertising entertainment and other

media.

Most young boys and Teenagers are exposed to

hardcore porn on their cell phones or those of their peers

daily.

How should the church address this reality.

In what forums and ways should believers be speaking to the church and society?

About pornography.

That is this pervasive.

May our God provide for all your needs in the riches of the glory of Jesus Christ.

Well, I'll have the you mull that over and I'll repeat it.

Of course when we return from the break.

But if anybody else would like to join us, our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris ar n z e n gmail .com.

Please give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA.

And of course, you may remain anonymous if your personal involves.

If your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Chris croats and Overcoming the bondage of addiction to pornography

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through Chris Arnson on iron sharpens iron radio.

We are now back with our discussion on preventing and breaking the chains of pornography addiction with our

guest Chris croats co -founder with Jack dodged in.

Dodgen.

Dodgen yes Of overcome which is a ministry helping

those who are currently battling this sin that's overcome.

And He is.

Chris croats is also a volunteer photographer for many events that iron sharpens iron radio

Puts on in this area.

And if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Chris involving the issue of pornography

our Email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris ar n ze n gmail .com.

Please give us your first name your city and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA.

And you may remain Anonymous if this question involves a personal and private matter.

And Not only is this the first time Chris croats has been a guest on iron sharpens iron

But this is the first time that we have addressed this specific issue for two hours on the show

Before the break.

As you know Chris our listener in Slovenia Joe says dear brothers.

Chris here in Europe as you may know Soft porn is virtually everywhere displayed in public

advertising entertainment and other media.

Most young boys and teenagers are exposed to hard porn on their cell phones or those of their

peers daily.

How should the church address this reality?

And what forms and ways should believers be speaking to the church and society about pornography

that is this pervasive?

And first of all, is there a difference between what he is saying is going on in Europe than here in the United

States?

I think it might be a little different.

I Just had a friend actually that deals with pornography go

over to I can't remember what European country but it was a

is a big problem over there human trafficking is huge over there and

Which I mean I've never been to Slovenia.

But many of these European countries we're seeing this is becoming a major problem and what he

described his words were Some of these brothels that you can go into or much

like our grocery stores that we have here.

It is very commonplace it is so accepted over there and We

aren't we aren't to that point over here yet.

Yeah, and I say yet because we very easily could be there in a matter of

a decade or two but because of that and you know, that's their foundation

then the Pornography addiction is going to be just that much more entrenched in

Society, you know over here.

It's it's normal, right?

You know guys I was I was in the military for a large Portion of my life

and it's a joke, you know, you it's it's joked about but over there It is very much a way of

life and because of that that's why we see the the human trafficking Problem over there.

That's why we're starting to see a rise in human trafficking over here Because like he's like we were

talking about before it's a snowball effect that after a while Viewing images or

or video on a screen isn't enough and you need to start acting out the fantasies that you're having with an actual

person and That is a terrible a terrible place to be

but You know, what's the answer then and I think the the the listener?

said he asked, you know, how should the church respond to this and Before I

answer that Let me just with a few stats show the seriousness

of this.

Definitely.

Definitely and how it's in the church because I've talked to several ministers who say

I don't think we have that problem here and I I just I shake my head because it's

Because the nature of the sin and how people keep it so secret you might never

know.

If someone is struggling or not, right.

Because this is a sin, you know, there was not so long ago a decade or two ago.

That in order for somebody to be involved in this they'd have to actually get in their car and drive

to an adult.

Theater.

Perhaps go to a adult book slash video store and rent these things and perhaps

put on a disguise or something and.

Now.

Somebody right there in their computer while they are studying the Bible online.

They can just with one click the privacy of their darkened basement or wherever they have their computer.

They were all sudden watching pornography and In fact, I had a

humorous thing that just popped into my head.

I have a dear friend.

Who's a minister?

Out on Long Island, New York and one day he took me to his favorite Japanese restaurant.

And he pulls up to the place and parks his car and I said

To him a brother.

Do you do you always park your car here when you go to the Japanese restaurant?

He goes.

Yeah, why?

Well, do you realize that you're parked right in front of a strip club because there were no signs there were no signs that would lend

you to automatically know that and the strip club was right next to the

Japanese restaurant and I happen to know it was a strip club because unfortunately before I was a Christian as a teenager and a young man in my

20s I had occasion to visit there, but He was he was mortified because I said, you know

people driving by they see your car, which is a very noticeable beat -up.

Car.

You could you could just tell by the the paint peeling off of it and certain designs on the car.

That that was his car.

So I said never park here again, bro.

I'm not even sure he went to the restaurant again after that but but this is a long way of saying it was something that took a

lot more effort than.

Yeah, absolutely and.

Today, like you said, it's anybody can do it.

We're we're carrying around devices in our pockets that can access pornography and nobody has to know.

So a few just a few stats here.

64 a study taken back in 2015 so this is still

fairly recent 2015.

64 of Christian men view pornography at least once a month

and if you're viewing if you know.

It's wrong and yet you can't stop Doing the behavior and you're

frequenting these sites at least once a month.

I would say that constitutes an addiction.

Yeah now, you know.

That's that's you know, it's different for every person but that's a that's a problem, right?

Another stat we were just talking about this one.

The same study found that 51 of ministers paid

by a church.

Found that 51 % of these ministers or said that pornography was a temptation for them.

And I I told you I have a I have a group and accountability group that is just preachers.

And that's because you know the the solitary nature of our job.

We are alone many times and with almost zero accountability.

With what we're doing with our time and what what websites were frequenting one in

five.

So 20 one on one in five cell phone searches are for pornography

when you're talking about a.

A browsing app one in five, you know, what amazes me about that is that this may sound comical to some

people but.

The screen is so tiny and you're wondering that that's a real addiction.

When somebody is compelled to even view that on this little tiny screen and somehow get some

pleasure out of it's just insane.

That just shows you the length that people will go to to get their fix or to feed their addiction.

93 of boys and 62 of girls are exposed to pornography before

the age of 18.

Now, I mean, I think that's pretty commonplace today people know.

All right, by the time you're out of the house by the time you're 18 years old.

Yeah, you're gonna you're gonna have seen it.

In what way does that mean?

Exposed.

Like for instance, are they seeing their father or their older siblings watching this.

Or what do they mean by exposed?

I think the criteria would include all of that.

Either you know seeing someone viewing it finding it, you know in the in the trash can

being shown it in the in the.

The playground at school and even even movies that.

Are.

Obviously intended to include.

Children in the audience are very often having at least what might what might be considered soft

core porn in them.

Yeah anymore.

Yeah, that's very much the norm Today and I think that the problem

Chris is not so much that they're exposed.

But that same study found that 71 of teens hide what they do online

from their parents.

Again, not shocking information, you know kids have been hiding things from their parents since the

dawn of time really but Um when you think about this

problem and The fact that these young kids are viewing Increasingly violent

pornography and then hiding it from their parents.

That's the blueprint for addiction right there.

Is that they're being there they're learning this habit of.

I did something shameful.

Now I must hide it from everyone and so going going back to the question now.

That's this is a really long way to answer this question, what can the church do.

Primarily talk about it.

If if someone if a study came out and said that 64 of Christians

struggled with alcohol.

Do you think people would have a problem with that?

Absolutely there we'd be seeing seminars we'd be seeing books come out.

We'd be flooded with the amount of information and help available because that

is a problem if 64 of men in the church a

study found that 64 of men in the church Abused physically abused their wives.

Do you think the church would have a problem with that?

Absolutely.

Absolutely would but for some reason for some reason I think it's because it's the secretive nature of the sin.

We can hear these stats and it just you know, it just falls right off of our back it's no big deal.

Now just out of curiosity, I Remember hearing and in fact, it was on this program.

I was interviewing someone Who was talking about this is a minister who was overseas

somewhere.

I Believe he was speaking at a conference or something and when he was at the airport, he saw some

pornographic magazines On a rack in the airport

stationary store or convenience store and he was tempted to

Purchase some of this because he was trying to convince himself in his mind.

This would spice up his love life with his wife and I was wondering if

sometimes from what you have learned when ministers are Are involved in this are they

using excuses like this that to make it more harmless or make it appear in their own

minds.

To be.

More harmless.

Because hey after all Having intercourse with your spouse is

something that is required in Scripture, that's a that's a command we're not supposed to defraud our spouses of that.

And He might be tricking himself into thinking this is actually something that

Would be noble and God honoring to do to to be more pleasurable for my spouse.

And then he realized Since he had an accountability partner that the accountability partner had nothing to do with

a the specific sin of pornography.

He just had an accountability partner who they made a pledge to To let

each other know whenever they were being tempted or participating in sinful activity and

He knew that he would have to lie to his brother and friend in Christ who was accountability partner in order to

conduct this purchase.

So he didn't but my that was a long way of asking you Is that one of the excuses that at least

starts the ball rolling for?

Especially ministers or seasoned Christians people who have been in the faith many years.

And the other thing that I could imagine would be people saying I've got to see what

these other people are Participating in in order so in order for me to speak with

an education and knowledge.

I was just wondering if those are two of these if you're a preacher out there and.

You need some education or knowledge of what the sin is.

Please contact me.

Don't go to the adult bookstore In order to get educated on this sin.

But to to your question I've seen a

myriad of Excuses and trying to rationalize this from

all people not just not just ministers.

You know as human beings.

We're very good at Rationalizing things.

I'm saying I know God said this but Let's let's try to sneak

it in right?

Let's let's try to bend the rules just enough so I can have my way.

We're very good at that.

And so I've I've heard all sorts of excuses all sorts of rationalizations in order to do the thing.

Yeah, this is gonna spice up our marriage.

You know, I I'm not really addicted to this.

I can quit whenever I want and they're all they're all lies.

Because if you think about that, okay, you're gonna try to spice up your marriage by bringing

someone else into your marriage bed.

How does that make sense?

But what what he's trying to do there is to make it acceptable to his wife.

And so then it gives thereby gives him permission to continue doing these things that he knows.

Like I'm just doing you a favor.

Okay?

Yeah.

But the the church when you start talking about it this has been the

the silent problem in so many churches and I truly believe that so many men

of God are missing their purpose because they cannot get over this one hurdle

and I if they can't if they could if they could Realize that there is hope out there.

That I think our churches would be so much better off in forms of leadership

in forms of of Having a true vision for the future rather than

just being caught up in this cycle of sin and so.

You know, I don't know Slovenia.

Right, that's the place Slovenia.

Yes, Slovenia, which is the birthplace of our first lady Donald Trump's wife.

Okay, I'd learn something new.

Slovenia.

Slovenia, yes.

Never been there.

Don't look don't know much about it.

I'm a preacher, you know.

Who you.

Paul Simon, yeah, he's saying that song.

Don't know much about history.

I don't know much biology.

I think it gets around a geography at some point.

But anyway, well, that's me.

That's that's definitely me, but.

Regardless of where you are here in the States Overseas, I think the first step has to be let's start

talking about it.

Let's start recognizing this as a problem right.

The first step in solving a problem is recognizing that you have one right and so we need to start talking about it and secondly

We need to equip ourselves to offer hope because so many men the reason why

The church isn't talking about is because so many men are caught up in it I believe that they don't know

where to start and so you're really on one of two camps either you don't struggle with it and so you think everyone else is just like you

and this isn't a problem or you do struggle with it and you are Definitely not bringing it up.

Because then you're gonna have to you're gonna have to confess you're gonna have to if you're married you're gonna have to go through that whole

process that you've probably been through before and you've just Convinced yourself that lying about this is the

only way that it can happen.

That that life can continue and it's a lie.

It's a lie.

There is hope out there and if churches were more equipped to deal with the problem and not just the

typical well, just read your Bible more and pray about it and you know, if you had if you're

if you had you know a stronger faith and you wouldn't struggle with this and those.

That prescription for dealing with this problem has been around for a long time and it's

obviously not working.

We have to go to our midway break, which is a longer break than normal because grace life radio

90 .1fm in Lake City, Florida who airs this program daily in a

rerun form or a pre -recorded form from the day previous.

They require a 12 -minute break between our two main segments of the show.

So, please be patient with us as we have this 12 -minute break.

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Chris croats on pornography addiction and.

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On.

Preventing and breaking the chains of pornography addiction.

With our Guest today Chris quotes who is co -founder with Jack

Dodgen of overcome.

We have just a couple of announcements to make.

First of all the Alliance of confessing evangelicals is once again having the Philadelphia

Conference on Reform Theology.

Next month coming up very quickly.

It's going to be held at two locations neither of which is Philadelphia.

They call it the Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology out of love admiration and respect

to the late dr. James Montgomery Boyce and The conference that he held at the 10th

Presbyterian Church in Philadelphia for many years.

And he is now in heaven for eternity with Christ and they have continued the theme in the name.

And of course there are different Specific themes every year this year.

The theme is the spirit of the age and the age of the spirit.

From the 13th.

Through the 15th The conference will be held at the first Christian Reformed Church of Byron Center,

Michigan.

And from the 27th through the 29th, the conference will be held at Proclamation Presbyterian Church in Bryn

Mawr, Pennsylvania.

That's the one I intend to attend.

I intend to attend that conference and the speakers include Daniel Aiken

Richard Gaffin Daniel Hyde a man who I consider to be the most powerful preacher on the planet Earth

alive today.

Conrad M Bayway the pastor of Kibwata Baptist Church in Lusaka Zambia Africa has been my friend

since 1995.

Richard Phillips another friend of mine who is the pastor of Second Presbyterian Church in Greenville, South Carolina Jonathan

Master David Murray who have both been on this program and Scott Oliphant who I have not

yet interviewed but hope to soon.

He is on the faculty of Westminster Theological Seminary.

If you'd like to register for either location or both locations of this event go to Alliance

net org Alliance net org click on events and then click on

The Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology please tell the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals that you heard about

these events from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sherp and Zion Radio and Also market calendars for May

5th from 10 a .m. To 2 30 p .m.

My guest today Chris croats will be leading An event called equipped to

conquer in regard to the same Topic we are addressing today.

What is your church doing about Pornography and the addiction that many

professing Christians and even ministers are battling in regard to this sin.

That's going to be held at the Carlisle Church of Christ on 971 walnut bottom Road in Carlisle.

And for more information, you can call seven one seven two, four nine thirty two sixty seven seven one

seven two four nine thirty two sixty seven or go to Carlisle C of C org

Carlisle C of C org and The other

website, I'm sure that we'll be promoting.

This is when I am weak org when I am weak org.

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Well now we are back with our guest Chris quotes co -founder with Jack Dodgen

of Overcome and we are addressing preventing and breaking the chains of pornography addiction.

If you'd like to join us on the air the question of your own our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA and you may remain anonymous if it makes you

feel more comfortable if the question involves a personal and private matter and Chris There are

obviously just like any sin.

Whether it be drug and alcohol abuse whether it be

Gluttony or whatever the case may be that there are typically things that a person

Would do to further equip themselves not to either fall into

those sins to begin with but to Make sure that they don't return to

those sins and obviously nothing is foolproof, but What would you say

are those very things when it comes to?

Somebody with this specific sin somebody who has been viewing

Pornography and this has become something that's consuming their lives and so on.

Well to Let me back up a little bit because you sure you said a couple things

in there that are absolutely correct.

And no matter what struggle you have we all have our own struggles whether it be pornography.

You said you mentioned gluttony of substance abuse is it is it greed is it anger?

We all have these things and what I found in my years of helping people

with pornography is that the core issues that that

Institute a pornography addiction actually are the core issues that really plague us

all and There's there's three of them that I mentioned that we have all been affected

by to some degree and those are abandonment abuse and shame.

Abandonment abuse and shame.

Those are the three core issues that kind of Can you know fester in

they manifest themselves very differently depending on? the person depending on their

circumstances and for So many people nowadays It's very much

skewed or weighted towards this pornography addiction that we're dealing with in the church today but

if you think about your life, and I don't need examples Chris, but We've all struggled

with abandonment abuse or shame abandonment can be anything from being abandoned by

a parent a Mentor a spouse a

Sibling a teacher whatever and That hurts it hurts

when you feel those those feelings of abandonment and there's a lot of times there's nothing that you can do about

it and so for the for the porn addict they the way that they cope

is.

They seek out pornography because it makes them feel normal.

It makes them feel good at least for a moment.

You think about abuse and you know people's abuse it doesn't have to be as

terrible as mine was but parents hand they have the the

capability of Abusing their children without even knowing it.

You think about verbal abuse or emotional abuse.

And hopefully not but we know it happens quite a lot.

Sexual abuse within the family can do can do a tremendous amount

of damage and pain and.

So the way that the porn addict copes with all of that is they seek out pornography and of course shame

shame is really wrapped up in this whole thing because The way that the

church views porn and rightfully so as a sin because God views it as a sin.

There's a lot of shame wrapped up in that of what will people think shame is this idea of.

If people knew the real me if they knew what I was doing behind closed doors, then

they wouldn't really love me.

It's this you kind of dehumanize yourself you devalue yourself and that's what

shame really is and you think about the The trajectory and this is

why I believe that this is such a huge problem in the churches today.

Much bigger than what I might even realize this is I believe Satan's number one

tool for making sure the gospel isn't spread because of the

impact that just five minutes or even less of being exposed to

Pornography you think about the trajectory of shame over someone's lifetime, right?

It's a lifetime of shame that that can cause and so that this has got to be Satan's one of

Satan's biggest tools for derailing people from their God -given potential

and what.

What God has planned for them, but you think about okay now that we know that

We have abandonment abuse and shame.

The problem is is that most people view pornography addiction or sex addiction

as it's it's all about the sex.

It's all about the porn when it's really not that way.

It's like I said, we people have these core issues and this is just manifesting itself

this way in someone's life.

So we find and researchers have found this Very recently within the last

10 -15 years that pornography addiction really is more of an intimacy disorder.

It's an intimacy disorder because you don't want people to see the real you.

You're afraid of that you you go to great lengths to make sure that nobody knows.

Whether it be deleting the internet history or you know.

Making sure you know, no one is around and you go through all these things to make sure nobody knows

and yet.

That's how the sin thrives.

And so we get stuck in this intimacy disorder of not wanting people to see who we really are so then the

answer to an intimacy disorder is then allowing people to see who you

really are and knowing that they're going to love you in return and Support

you and be there for you and encourage you through this and the more you allow people to see who you

are the Easier it gets and that's really that's the entire premise of what we do

in our accountability groups.

You mean the easier it gets to overcome and repent of absolutely now going back to something.

I said earlier How do you respond to the person?

Let's say the wife Catches the husband watching porn.

She starts yelling at him and he says hun come on.

I have an intimacy disorder.

I mean, this is a sickness.

I mean you got to cut me some slack because this is no different than diabetes.

Why don't you tell me about that?

How do you how to respond to that Chris?

I've never heard that before.

Well, I've heard.

I've heard in the media very often and at a a meetings which I used to have to go to when I was in a

hospital waiting to be given entrance into the Christian rehabilitation ministry that I

told you about I had to.

While in this hospital in their drug and alcohol abuse wing I had to go at least I think three

times a day to a a meetings and there was a lot of this

psychobabble going on where people are being told that it is just like diabetes or

Cancer or whatever.

This is a disease.

And.

Interestingly enough, they would have the inmates running the asylum because the people running the AA meetings were

the repeat offenders that were in and out.

Of the.

Rehabilitation wing who knew the system enough to run the meeting.

So it's crazy that these people who are repeat offenders are running things.

But anyway, that seems to be common in recovery.

Vocabulary.

The the lingo of recovery is that it is just like a disease of any kind.

So, how do you respond to that the people who are passing the buck of responsibility?

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that Chris of This it's beyond my

control type thing and I know you know the you know, you think about

the the 12 steps in recovery programs and stuff like that and There's a reason why

in our system.

We we choose not to use those.

However, we cover much of the same ground as those.

One of the problems that I kind of One of the things that I have a

problem with with the 12 -step program is Exactly what you're mentioning of the kind of it has this

shift of blame to it of well This is this is just who I am.

Whereas to get over an intimacy disorder you do need to recognize that and you know have people around you.

But that doesn't excuse the behavior, right?

Say well, I have an intimacy disorder.

And so I'm acting out in this way in a group in an accountability group setting

it would be.

You know, yeah, we understand because we've all been there.

But that doesn't excuse the behavior right, we have a we have a understanding in all

of our groups that if someone is married and and they

They go so far as.

You know actually looking at pornography and acting out to it that they need to talk to their wives.

Because those are you know, you have vows that you made on your wedding day that you

just broke.

And so as much as is good for you to to you know.

Confess this sin to us here in group.

You also need to confess that to your wife and that's that's all part of the process,

right?

The idea of Building intimacy within a group and a lot of times

it's with people that you don't really know is that the hope is that you can build this and

allow people to see who you are and then that bleeds over into your everyday life and.

Going back to the disorder aspect.

When it comes to alcohol my own Personal sin that God delivered me from as in regard to

addiction to it.

Or habitual unrepentant sin involving that.

There are.

Biochemical things that develop in a person's life when they Consume alcohol which begins

to make your body crave it physically and you even go through the DT's.

You shake if you don't have it and you don't feel better until you have some alcohol back in your system.

Although that could be said to be a physical addiction biochemical addiction it's something

that I and all drunkards cater to and and

cultivate and develop.

By by giving in to the temptation and it becomes worse and worse and worse until you're finally you could

actually lose your life.

It could be so bad by going through withdrawal.

And I'm assuming that you would believe that this disorder aspect of the way you're viewing pornography.

Is that it is something that people are cultivating and nurturing by constantly giving in

to the sin.

It's not something that I can say.

Hey, I was born a porn addict when in reality I guess we could all say that we are born porn addicts because we're

born with these sinful proclivities, they just manifest in different ways, but if you could

Tell us about that in regard to this clinical way of describing it as

being a.

Disorder.

Yeah.

Well.

It is let me just say there are some differences between

Substance abuse and pornography addiction or you mentioned the you know, there is a

something a Chemical reaction that's going on in your body to

make you want alcohol.

Or Drugs.

Or you know, we see several of these other substances that people can get addicted to and

Much of it is the same way as you your body is starting to crave this the problem with pornography addiction.

Is that the drug that we're craving our?

Brains produce it and that's dopamine along with a cocktail of many other drugs that

our brains Make it's.

And so you have this very interesting Dilemma that a porn addict is in

and that is for a for an alcoholic They have to go get the

alcohol right or it has to be given to them.

They have to You know some effort has to be made.

For the drug addict they could you know if they decided to they could never.

Go.

Meet their drug dealer again, and that could potentially cure them of their

addiction.

The problem with the porn addict is that where do you go to run away from your mind?

Because when you understand what these drugs are doing to you and Viewing pornography

along with these drugs being released in our brain Makes it so it is

incredibly difficult to forget these images and these

videos and these names of actors and actresses if they're seared onto

our consciousness.

And so you what you have is you have a drug addict living inside of a drug factory.

Wow, that's that's a fascinating way of putting it that's.

I don't know if I've ever heard it put that way, but that's profound.

Tell me about it.

It stinks because I mean I I wish I Wish and

I've prayed much like Paul prayed to God to take away that thorn in his side to take away these

Images that haunt me that I can never get rid of as much as I try

because of the way that Basically what happens in your brain is When you're

viewing pornography you have norepinephrine release in your brain, which is adrenaline because it's exciting, right?

You're being excited by what you're seeing.

It's it's dangerous.

You know, you're it's you know, you know, it's wrong.

And so you have this adrenaline rush going on.

Well, the problem with that is that you they found that when you Experience

something with adrenaline coursing through your body you tend to remember that better and

that's horrible for a porn addict because like I said You can't forget this stuff.

It's with you.

You are it's you can't run away from your own mind your own memory and

That just fuels the addiction even more.

We're gonna go to a break.

Right now our final break it's going to be briefer than the last one.

But one question I have from an anonymous listener in Pennsylvania is can you tell us about the

phenomenon of female?

Porn addiction and how is it different than male addiction and you could go to that

when we return from our final break.

Don't go away.

God willing.

We'll be right back with Chris croats and more of our discussion on breaking the chains of

Addiction to perform pornography right after these messages from our sponsors.

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Now we're back to the final 25 minutes or so with our guest today Chris croats.

We have been discussing Preventing and breaking the chains of pornography addiction.

And if you'd like to join us Do so now or forever.

Hold your peace because we're running out of time.

If you have a question send it to Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside the USA and only remain anonymous if your

person if your question involves a personal and private matter and.

Before the break Chris, as you know, we had an anonymous listener in Pennsylvania who wanted to know

more about the phenomenon of female addiction to porn which seems like

it's a mind -blowing thing because for a very long time a

pornography addiction or the sin of viewing pornography has been viewed almost

exclusively as a male sin.

And There may have been some truth to that perhaps even a lot of truth to that.

But the times are changing as they say if you could tell us something about this.

Yeah, I think one of the reasons why we're seeing a big shift in this is

the the over sexualization of our nation that we're under right now is

You know, I heard about this when I was a kid of like, you know Girls are

wearing these days and can you believe the the filth that's on TV?

And now that I'm an adult I look back at that and say oh that was nothing.

Look at what we have nowadays and it's just this Mindset that our

culture is in but as far as the addiction goes really much of it is the same.

As far as the the intimacy disorder all of these things.

If if there is one thing that was different Chris it would have to be that the way

that God made women and I'm not saying all women are this way, but general generally

speaking women crave Relationship, they they go after the

relationship.

That's what they want.

You ask any Woman, you know, what do they want out of their marriage?

They want the relationship part of it the most.

You know having someone to talk to to spend the days with to experience life through whereas,

you know.

You talk to a guy on his wedding day.

And I can tell you one thing that he's looking forward to and has nothing to do with any of that but

I think if one thing is different about the addiction for women it has to do

with the relationship part is they're Seeing the relationship

it can and they can come in many different forms either viewing pornography reading romance novels.

There is a new wave of romance novels that are really just pornography in literary

form things like Fifty Shades of Grey and There's seems like there's a new.

It's almost it's praised in Hollywood and in in pop culture of wow.

Look at this book and how amazing it is, but really what it is is pornography.

It's somehow in a more acceptable form of pornography, but that's that's what it is

but included in there's how the these women get hooked by it is because they.

They play on the relationship aspect of it of you know.

Look at all these dangerous things that these two are doing but it's in viewing through the

lens of relationship and again I'll talk about another drug

that our brains produce and that is oxytocin now this affects male

addicts as well.

But I would I would think that it would affect Female addicts just that much more because what

oxytocin is is it's the love drug.

It's what our brains release when we feel human connectedness.

And for some reason when we view pornography our brains release that and so it's this really interesting

Phenomenon where what is happening is is you can start falling in love with?

Porn.

Because you're feeling that human connectedness through it and be because of that

you start falling in love with these videos and you have this deep level

of Romantic intimacy that that's what sex is.

Is that the deepest form of intimacy that you can go to with a person and When

you get a taste of that it can be very addicting.

Especially if you don't if you aren't experiencing that level of connectedness in other areas of your

life.

Then you're gonna crave it that much more.

So you're saying that the the romantic aspect of this is what's drawing in women and greater numbers.

Is that what you mean?

I.

Think so.

I and you know, I hate to you know, paint things with such a broad stroke.

Because people are different and everyone's Background is different there, you know,

it depends on you know, what they're struggling with with abandonment abuse and shame.

But but if I had to put my finger on it I think it would have to be.

That is the the human connectedness the Relationship part of it.

The romance is what a lot of women want and they can have all of that

by viewing videos online or.

Reading these romance novel and I have heard and again, we're going to like clinical

Terminology and all that kind of thing, but I have heard that women are less visual when it

comes to sexual things.

And of course not every person is the same not every woman is the same.

But I found it interesting and I don't know if you can document this or not.

I'm sure that playgirl magazine could document it, but I heard somewhere That

the vast majority of those Subscribing to playgirl. I don't even know if it exists anymore, but

they were homosexual men not women buying this magazine.

Okay, because that that goes along with the whole.

Visual.

Aspect of that would make sense.

That would make sense as to what they're then.

They're the people that are actually buying the magazine wasn't women.

It would it would be homosexual men who are very Stimulated visually instead of.

Relationally like we just talked about now one of the things that kind of slipped away from us that I asked you about

Before the break was what steps do you recommend?

I know that each person may be different like for instance going back to you my personal

Addiction that has been thankfully broken by the mercy and grace of God.

In regard to drunkenness.

There are all different kinds of drunks or former drunks.

Some people who are Delivered from this they might not ever

even be able to walk into an Applebee's again because there's a bar in there.

They might not ever be able to sit And enjoy a meal with other people who are enjoying

a glass of wine.

You could go on and on and on.

Thankfully I.

Have gone into Applebee's and many other restaurants that have bars.

Sometimes with a table right next to the bar and I don't even for a second start to salivate

thinking about that booze over there.

I could just look over there and say look at the pretty colored bottles and it doesn't go any further than that.

And I and believe me I know he who thinks he stands.

Take heed lest you fall.

I know that I have to be careful about this and not view it as Something I can

boast of and be 100 confident about.

But.

When it comes to this particular sin that you're talking about, I'm assuming it would.

Some people might not ever be able to go to the beach again or might not even be able to pick up.

I don't do they have Sears or JC Penney's catalogs anymore.

But.

He is a lot younger than I am.

That's been one in my house.

I don't think ever actually.

But but I mean obviously even online when you yeah people could even look at women's lingerie.

Yeah, you walking through the department store, right?

Right.

So tell us about that.

What what practical counsel do you have in regard to staying away?

From something that's going to send you on the slippery slope back into pornography use.

Well, that is one thing that.

We kind of Cover and track and it's it's

people are different, right?

I've dealt with people that All the only thing they needed to do was get into group

and tell their story and for some reason That was enough for them they they just needed to get

that off of their chest and they're able to move on and It's never a temptation for them again.

Really?

It's it's incredible to me now again, you know, there's a level of honesty there.

Are they I mean, are they being honest with themselves and honest with us?

I don't know.

All I know is what they tell me.

But but then I've also I also have guys in our groups that they know that

This is a lifelong struggle that it is never going to come to a time where I'm not going to be

tempted by this so As far as you know practical steps

at least from my personal experience.

There was a time in my life When I was first getting started with this where I couldn't go to the gym

The gym was too much temptation for me.

I could not go to the beach.

It was too much temptation for me and I've I've Then and

since Refused to have certain apps on my phone or to have certain types of phones

for some people they choose All right.

I cannot have a smartphone anymore because the temptation is just too great but what I found

personally as the the more I remove myself and the longer that I've gone

in group and confessing sin and really being vigilant about Where I'm

going where my eyes are wandering I Can go to the gym now and be fine.

Now that doesn't mean like you're saying doesn't mean I can boast about that and strut around saying look at me I'm not affected by

any of this because I know again from my personal experience as soon as I do that That's when I have a bad

day.

And so staying vigilant knowing that I need to be careful of where my eyes are wondering what

situations I'm putting myself in definitely help but I mean so much of

this is it's so, you know Individual that it's it's hard to say.

Well, you know, you know This is how long you're gonna be in this situation and you know once you move on from here,

then this is what your life is gonna look like because I've dealt with single guys

married guys guys that are dealing with same -sex attraction.

And not just you know, the the typical pornography addiction and it's it's

all Different it's saying it's the same on on some levels as far as you know

What we need to do in group, but it's different as to how that person lives their everyday life

because People are different.

They're in different situations.

They're in different countries and areas of our our country and things are gonna be different

and so that is one of the beautiful things about group is that we were able to

address Individuals in a in their circumstance and

talk about What's going on and how we can help?

We have a listener in Clifton, New Jersey and Joey

and Clifton says dear Chris Thanks for all you are trying to do to help Christians gain victory

over the temptations.

They face.

I heard what you said about the peculiar challenge it has faced because of the

nature of dopamine and I can't even pronounce this other word nor.

Nor benefit.

Okay, I agree with what you said but just want to share two comments for balance.

One is that God can use those same exact chemicals in response to him

When we rightly see and know him and for those married also in response to one

spouse and These in a more good and powerful way than to pornographic

imagery.

So whether singled or Married the fact that an image was once

there is by no means a defeat.

It can be overcome.

Second and more importantly we must always remember that God's Spirit is resident in the

believer the Spirit of God.

It's my phone falling off.

The console here the Spirit of God In us can enable us to overcome such

things that attack us.

This is why Paul can say in 1st Corinthians chapter 6 verse 11 Such were some

of you in response to these sins that the world thinks are so addictive and enslaving.

This is not to say that there is no struggle, but we can walk in newness of life as Romans chapter 6

verse 4.

Keep pressing on brother.

Do you have any.

It wasn't no real question there, but if you could comment on his comments, I.

Would have to agree that his first thing his first comment about How you know these

these drugs that our brain produces?

I can absolutely have a a positive side to them.

I mean God created our brains to function in a certain way and they have a purpose there

and so but what a lot of times has happened is that Satan the world has hijacked

that as a system to distract us or to Point

us in the wrong direction but he's right and the sense that if you're using it

for its intended purpose, it is a Beautiful thing.

Sex is a beautiful thing Seen in the right lens and and used correctly.

I mean God created it for a purpose and not just to

Produce children, but also for a husband and wife to enjoy each other and those drugs that our body

produces.

You think about the the adrenaline it should be exciting.

The the oxytocin right of the human connectedness.

You go to the deepest level intimacy with someone and you should feel connected to them.

You should have that relationship and the the drugs that God put in our brains and have them produced

only help with that.

The problem is that when we hijack those and use them To fulfill our own

selfish needs of I want to feel good right now.

And so I'm going to use pornography as a vehicle in order to get there.

And I forgot his second part because I was babbling so much.

He said.

Well, let me go back to what he said here.

And in the meantime, I will repeat our email address.

It is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

If anybody else would like to Join us on the air with a question of your own and remember you can remain anonymous

If your question involves a personal and private matter.

If you're talking about the last part of he said, yeah, he said

Paul can say in 1st Corinthians chapter 6 verse 11 some Such were some of you

in response to these sins that the world thinks are so addictive and enslaving.

This is not to say that there is no struggle, but we can walk in newness of life as in Romans chapter 6 verse

4.

I think I could be wrong and Joey if you want to clarify with another email.

I think what he may be saying Is something that I am personally in agreement with Joey in

Clifton, New Jersey.

One of the problems I have with aana and recovery therapy is

The idea that I have to forever identify myself as an addict.

Like alcoholics will say you must always say that you are an alcoholic.

In fact you the whole thing with alcoholics anonymous.

You could be sober for 80 years.

And get up with your walker and say my name is Bill and I'm an alcoholic.

I don't believe that we should do that.

It's it's the same way in regard to all sins if somebody Committed the sin

of adultery either before or after they were a Christian and they repented of that.

They their their marriage was restored their membership in the church was restored etc, etc.

I don't think that the person has to walk around say hi.

I'm Bill and I'm an adulterer, you know I think that's probably what Joey meant by that is that

there is hope in Christ Who can certainly deliver us that doesn't mean that?

You will have a hundred percent freedom from temptation on this earth and so on.

I think this a lot of this is Also going on

In opposition to what Joey's saying in the realm of homosexuality you will have even Christians

Relegating people as being a part of a people group

known as homosexuals as if They wave the white flag and say you're ever you're always going to be a

homosexual.

Rather than referring to it as an activity that is damning and evil.

They're referring to it as a people group almost as if you're Italian you're black you're Asian you're

homosexual and The the most that a Christian can hope for is being a

chaste Homosexual and I reject that completely.

I believe that there is deliverance.

Yeah through the blood of Christ.

Oh the scripture that he referenced Homosexuals, that's right in that list.

That's right.

Some of you were such were some of you and I would have to agree with Joey, right.

Joey was his name.

Yes, Joey from Clifton.

Memory is terrible.

But Absolutely that I've seen through this

ministry Marriages restored people thinking

and I should include this before we end.

My wife is also involved in this ministry with me because what I found through the years is that

I might have a husband or more likely a wife coming to me saying my husband needs help and I

might get him to help and Then on the sidelines you have this wife who has been completely destroyed

by this revelation this, you know the sin that she had no idea about

and Some researchers even found that the symptoms of PTSD have been found in wives of

porn addicts because it is so jarring and so Shocking to their

life that they now they have triggers as well.

And so my wife is involved in this ministry with me.

If you're a wife out there listening to this, please go on to the website and You can

find help on there for you.

If you have questions My email address is on there as well that if you want to get in contact with my wife, please

by all means do so.

And Joey in Clifton, New Jersey says you got me, right Chris.

Thank you Joey and I guess we have time for one more.

We have Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania, who's asks how does all this discussion of

pornography when you meet in your groups.

Be prevented from entering into the very sin that you're discussing, you know.

You could.

Oh, yeah, you could actually if you're sitting around talking about pornography and your addiction to it that could lead to and in

fact, one of the things that I dislike about a a meetings and Na meetings

is the romanticizing of the abuse of the drug.

You will have contests not that they would be officially called contests.

But what seemed to be contests with people getting up and saying well you think you were addicted to alcohol and drugs.

Let me tell you my story.

Yeah, there's an old this this Titillating stories of things going on that might actually say to

somebody.

Hey, you know, I need a drink right now.

But anyway, I know I know exactly what you're talking about and It's almost this one upmanship

right of let me tell you let me tell you a story about a time that I was drunk.

However in group, this has never been an issue.

Typically because we kind of have an understanding this isn't a formal rule.

But it's an understanding of okay, if you say you messed up this week. We don't need any more

details beyond that of all.

Right, this is this is what happened.

This is how many times I messed up and we get the picture.

As soon as you start going into details, you know, I was looking at you know, this this is what happened.

Actress and she had this color hair.

We we stay away from all of that and as far as I know from the guys that I

counsel on these accountability meetings.

It hasn't been an issue and I think part of it is because it's kind of hard to Start

fantasizing when you're actively in a group trying to prevent the action that that you you're

wanting to fantasize about typically groups.

Go in a fashion either you are excited for someone because they

were able to stay clean for a week.

Or.

You're broken alongside with them for having failed and trying to come up with new

strategies or or you know doing whatever you can to make sure that this doesn't happen

again, and it's it's a process and.

But I haven't found that that to be a problem or an issue.

I mean, don't you think that if somebody says hey, I failed again, don't you believe that you have to say to them?

All right.

Sorry, but you got to get rid of your computer.

I mean, I mean with if somebody keeps saying hey.

It's been six weeks, but I fell again.

They got to really remove those things from their lives that keeps making them stumble.

Yeah, well part of the problem Chris is we live in 2018 and

The old you know.

Well, I'm just gonna go destroy my computer it isn't.

It isn't an option for most people because everyone needs their computers to do work and

really, I kind of view that as You're you're dealing with the

symptom of a problem.

You're not dealing with the actual problem by smashing the computer or getting rid of it.

And so we do institute some we have some software.

We We require our people to Put on their phones put on their computers.

So if they do try to access pornography that the group then knows about it.

Because because of that fact that almost everybody needs a computer today in order to survive.

Well, don't forget about the overcome conference from 10 a .m. To 2 30 p .m. On May

5th.

What day of the week is that?

That's a Saturday Saturday, May 5th Cinco de Mayo and It's an interesting Connection there

and if you want more information, you can go to Carlisle

Cofc .org Carlisle Cofc .org or go to

When I am weak org when I am weak org, which is the website for overcome

in a minute.

Do you have any summary of what you want want most etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today?

I guess I'd say this is That if you are out there and you're struggling.

You know, we didn't have any very many people emailing in questions for us and I understand that I

get that.

I talk about Pornography all the time and it's easy for me because this is what I do.

I'm a preacher.

I talk about weird stuff all the time.

That's my job Chris.

I talk about the things nobody wants to talk about.

If you are out there and you're struggling there is hope and as much as you might believe that there isn't in

that.

This is just your way of life.

And this is just what what you've been given and there is no hope out there.

Let me tell you that there is there absolutely is hope.

To get out of this even in the worst of situations if your wife doesn't know if you've lied to her

over and over and over.

There is freedom from that sin.

And the reason why we shoot we chose the name for our website is when I am weak is because it's going from

2nd Corinthians 12 and verse 10 for when I am weak then I am strong because that in

in that verse is the answer and when we try to Beat this thing of our

own strength.

That's when we fail.

It's when we hand it over and we say I'm allowing myself to be weak.

Allowing people to see who I really am that we find the true answer.

That's when I am weak.

Org.

Thank you so much, Chris croats.

I look forward to seeing you again at my one of my next Iron trip and siren events and hopefully you'll be

taking photographs again.

I want to thank everybody who listened to the program, especially those who wrote in Make a note to stay

tuned tomorrow or tune in tomorrow I should say for Sam Frost who is going to be discussing breaking the chains of

addiction to alcoholism.

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior Than you

are a sinner.