Road Trip DL: Passing On the Faith

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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Greetings and welcome to the Dividing Line. My name is James White. We are on the road again. I guess there's a song

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No, I'm not gonna I would not Insult you by doing that, but we are on the road again still in Golden, Colorado and Lord willing be speaking in Boulder on On Sunday night,

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I was supposed to have lunch today with the pastor there. I I Put it off Just felt a little off Today at one point and I just didn't want to You know,

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I think a lot of us are a little bit hyper sensitive to Passing anything along if I am fighting something.

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I don't know Well, we'll find out I feel okay at the moment

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Got a nice long nap That's always always good when you get older to get a little extra rest.

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We'll see, you know could have been the Frozen Breakfast sandwich you know,

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I try not to go out and Man, even buying those things is expensive today. It's ridiculous So we will we will see but we're back with you today.

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I think this is the third program we've done this week So it's it hasn't been too bad. I'm not

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Sure about next week I've changed my return trip and my days are really long long trips each day

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So I'm just not 100 % certain how that's gonna work out, but I'll be back by I think

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Wednesday of next week So if we have to make up a little something we will When we get we get back to Phoenix for less than two weeks and My dear daughter is

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Expecting to give birth during that time period and so I'll just be perfectly straight up front

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Doing the program is not gonna be that high of a priority if somebody's in labor

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Stuller is do it. I Don't think she's gonna do it she did the first time, you know when you have

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I've noticed that young ladies when they they have their first baby. They want to do all the natural

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No medication I'm so whoo -hoo and for the first child

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Summer labored for 44 hours That's so in the second one came along it's like get this baby out of me

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Do whatever you need to do not gonna worry about it. So yeah I'm not sure how that'll work out in this situation, but we're just very excited and Then you back on the road again heading for Washington DC I've never seen the

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Museum of the Bible I Think I've seen a maybe a video or two sort of a overview type thing

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I may even try to look a few of those up But I'm just looking forward to seeing what there is to see and to talk with folks about The divinely providentially preserved

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Word of God but of course when I say that I I mean that in the context that God has actually

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At this very time in history when the attacks upon the attacks on Scripture today

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Have more Are much more complicated

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There's much more Data to be brought in to attack the scriptures than ever before because this the same thing that we struggle with when we look at history when we look at say the

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Reformation and We look at the counter -reformation that the reality is whether Roman Catholics want to admit it or not the counter -reformation and the

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Jesuits Are very much responsible for many of the worst attacks upon Scripture today because the counter -reformation

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Attempted to Counteract the Reformation by demanding utter fealty to independence upon the magisterium of the

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Roman Catholic Church and so they would would attack the veracity of the

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Greek manuscript tradition over against the Latin Vulgate and and and in many ways modern

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Roman Catholic Scholarship at least conservative scholarship has abandoned all that stuff from the counter -reformation, but they did it and That really that resulted in you know responses from the

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Reformed and defenses of Scripture and The fact is back then

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It was it was challenging and what I mean by that is I Can pop up my screen you can pop up on your screen

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You can purchase a book. I can purchase a book that has a tremendous amount of information a

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Tremendous amount of You know a catalog of manuscripts

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This manuscript is found in this place. This manuscript is found in that place and it's from this century and it contains this number and We Assume that that kind of information has always been available

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But the fact the matter is it hasn't and We are able to mount a significantly deeper more consistent broad defense of the text of Scripture today than we ever have been able to in the past and And so there are people who use the term of providential preservation and they're attaching that to a 16th century

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Greek manuscript based on a tiny percentage of The manuscripts are available to us today and Just want to force us to go.

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Well, that's that's what providential preservation is. No God has providentially preserved his word in Wonderful and miraculous fashion every time

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I look at one of the papyri which are despised By the TR only guys by the quote -unquote confessional of bibliology guys.

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They despise the papyri I don't know if you remember a few years ago There was that Conference they had and if you know, we listened to portion well, we

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I listened all of it, but we played portions of it here on the program and The the references to the papyri were just Because the pirate did not exist well were not known cataloged available

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When the Texas Receptus was Formulated and so when you encounter readings in the papyri that are in some instances 1 ,300 years earlier

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Than a reading in the TR Those people who are putting the TR forward as being the apostolic original

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Have to find some way of attacking that That papyri and so they they loathe the papyri anything discovered after 1644 or really before that but technically it's just irrelevant.

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And so I look at the papyri and When they're discovered and the testimony they give to us of the antiquity of the readings in the

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Unseals and then in the broader manuscript tradition members. We're only talking about a small percentage of the text

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This is some of the Greatest This is a great gift given to the church that at the very time when when the enemies of the faith are going to be

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Attacking the veracity of the Bible. We are all of a sudden out of the ground literally sprout

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Portions of You know, I've shown you p52 the little credit card fragment from John chapter 18 the

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Very discussion of what is truth and it could be the earliest fragment we have of the New Testament there's arguments about that obviously, but it's very very early and here it

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Pops out of the ground ends up in in London and It's a gift given to us and So, you know,

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I don't know if they have a facsimile of that. I've seen the facsimile of it in Dublin but You know the the originals in Europe but Maybe they have a facsimile of something like that at at the

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Museum of the Bible but I Have said over and over again.

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It's sort of gotten lost recently Because there's so much other silliness going on amongst us but I have said over and over and over again that one of the one of the greatest foundations that you can give to yourself to your family to your children is an understanding of The providential preservation the text of Scripture because Any attacks

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I can I can guarantee you when the Chinese communists? Are torturing

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Christians one of the ways that they do that is to attack the veracity of Scriptures when they're seeking to break them down and to mock them and so on and so forth.

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So It's um, it's an edifying study and While you do have some

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Vocabulary to learn it's not like some of the stuff we're seeing today

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Where where people are saying that we need to get our people to understand the ramifications of appropriations and inseparable operations and getting farther and farther and farther and farther and farther and farther away from Apostolic revelation

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It's not like that you you you don't have to Be teaching people complex obtuse

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Philosophical concepts, there's some vocabulary to be learned as there is in any field

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You know this vocabulary to be learned and learning how to play Video games, you know, you gotta learn what this does and that does that whatever?

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But it's edifying and it's it's something you can pass on to your children and your grandchildren that will

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Be very very important in their Continuing service to Christ. So Anyway, that was all just prompted by the fact that we're gonna be home for less than two weeks

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I'll be honest with you, you know, I look at this thing and the the mindset that I'm operating with right now is

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How little Can I pull out of this? How much can

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I leave in here It'll still be hot in Phoenix At the end of August doesn't cool off until November in Phoenix.

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So it's still gonna be hot so there's you know, there's a certain things you just You can't leave but I've been watching the temperatures of Phoenix.

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It really hasn't been all that bad So the average temperature is probably somewhere in the mid 90s

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So yeah, I'm gonna be going How little do I have to Drag out of this thing and then put back into it, you know, basically nine days later that's sort of what the how can we minimize the expenditure of energy

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In this situation because everything's set up exactly right right now Exactly, right.

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It's probably not where my wife would have it Exactly right when you're traveling alone an

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RV is where you can find it very easily. That's where it needs to be

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Efficiency Not looking through every cupboard and drawer to find the one thing you need to fix the one issue you're dealing with.

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So anyway so that's what's coming up and If you haven't signed up,

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I think you can still sign up. I don't know For the conference there in Washington DC not looking forward to going into Washington DC, I will be perfectly honest with you

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But that's where the Museum of the Bible is so There's the there's the trade -off.

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There's trade -off there. I'm definitely have my head on a swivel if I'm out and about you

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The the videos that you can see I don't know if you saw the video of the One man just sucker punching this other person and person died happens so often and you

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We as Christians we understand the culture of death There is an intellectual aspect of the culture of death

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No question about there is a philosophical aspect to the culture of death

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But we recognize there is a spiritual Aspect to the culture of death and Sometimes I think reformed people and I will have a discussion here about whether we even want to keep using that term

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Given the people that claim it. Um But reformed people to have somewhat of a hesitation

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To Speak clearly and openly about About Spiritual forces in our role.

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I think part of us because we recognize those spiritual forces are under the sovereign control of God and So they are secondary.

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They're not primary. It's it's not it's not the Gnostic battle of light and dark Where they're equal forces they're not equal forces, but they are that doesn't change the reality that they exist and And Jesus taught and and dealt with spiritual forces and It's it is interesting to me.

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It should be interesting to all of us. I think that as we see these videos as we see violent young men and women

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It's not just men it's amazing how many women Are throwing punches and and Just engaging in violent behavior what we're supposed to do is we're supposed to think only of Well, they're just not properly educated you're saying and In many of those instances there's there's no fam.

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There's no family structure. There's no father in the home All those things are very very true But we we tend to just limit it to The explainable without making reference to The fact that when a people is under the judgment of God God When it when when you talk about withdrawing the hand of restraint, it's not just on the evil of man

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But on spiritual forces that are a part of that evil What what possesses a man to literally walk up behind someone he does not know and Kill him right then and there and that's happening all the time

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We've gotten used to the gang violence How many people were killed in Chicago last weekend?

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I? Don't know but if you put together all of the centers of leftist

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Control So Chicago, Los Angeles, Portland, Seattle, New York, Detroit St.

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Louis, I Not even sure how many but it'd be a very large number each weekend, especially during the summer

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Where people are being murdered in gang violence and No one cares about gang violence.

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No those last time you heard somebody left talking about gang violence Won't even touch it.

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It doesn't fit their narrative It's very clearly related to family. It's very clearly related to people rejecting

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God's revelation of how mankind is to live and the result is murder and mayhem

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Unrestrained sexual activity have you seen these videos of People dancing pretty much naked on cop cars and It just so happens that they are simulating sex acts in public pretty much naked

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While threatening Violent acts and A lot of people go.

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Well, I don't see the direct connection to it. It's all connected. It's connected with abortion. It's connected transgenderism it's a culture of death and that's why we as Christians whether we're still children home or grandchildren great -grandchildren

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We must be investing ourselves and Not just explaining to but demonstrating to the next generation

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The not just the necessity but the joy of Being a person who engages in the culture of life

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But Jesus said I am come that they might have life and they might have it more by them and One of the most important things you can communicate

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To your homeschool children to your neighbor to the children at your church, whatever the situation might be

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Is it Jesus come that we might have life? And then we might have it Aboundingly Overflowing not not just well, here's a little life here and here's a little life.

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No daily abounding in life and So when you look at a rebellious

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Society that hates God and you look at what they're calling good. You can be pretty certain whatever they're calling good is actually a source of death and destruction and the opposite Will be that which brings you life?

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so Today we have a society that says you make up what?

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You think feels good to you and go with it. So what's the culture of life?

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I Don't look to myself. I look to God. I look to God and I I Go has

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God given me a revelation of What it means to be his creature

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Because once I understand I'm his creature then I will experience life when

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I experience when when I obey What God has told me is

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The right way for me to live as he has designed me as he has made me It is a giving up of my self autonomy to define.

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What is Happiness and fulfillment and embrace God's revelation of that So when you look at Jesus's I've come they might have life

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He's also the one that says The person that teaches you to ignore any of God's revelation of what is good in his law is least in the kingdom of heaven

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I've not come to destroy but to fulfill and he goes to the cross to pay the penalty for The sins of mankind and those sins are defined by God's law

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I've been having some conversations obviously Right response ministries has put out a thing about next

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May and I I need to just you know, I'm gonna try to build a build a trip around this

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Haven't you know when you're talking about May that's far enough down the road that It's hard to make specific plans

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But you have to start trying given that my travel right now. I try to do in this fashion

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And so I'm having to bring a lot of people together there's a gentleman Church of Christ minister in Conway, Arkansas the home of Grace Bible Theological Seminary That wants to debate reformed issues.

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He wants to debate the human side of that which I fully understand I I need to push back and say well, you know, the reason

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I believe these Human aspects that I True true believer will not lose salvation is because that true believer has been chosen by God so that the ultimate

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Reason for that is God's sovereign decree and that's what really needs to be debated.

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But anyways point being try to find a way to Tie together going to Texas just north of Austin.

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I looked it up And of course, there's lots of folks in in Texas, maybe we'll just make it a

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Texas run and then over to Conway or maybe Conway first come back. I I don't know.

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It'd be nice to do a couple debates It's just been so long and I'm getting older and slower.

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So You know, we're gonna do it better do it pretty soon But we'll see

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We'll see and and you know, the point is There are those types of issues that we can be we can be dealing with and That's just one of the many aspects

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At that conference. It's on theonomy and post -millennial ism and Immediately people, you know,

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I was just Saddened I'll be honest with I've been very very saddened by the kind of responses that professing

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Christians have Before I came to understand what the issues were back when I was still very much prejudiced by Highly inaccurate misrepresentations of both of those terms which are which is extremely common and Look if the people you look up to tell you avoid this

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I understand why you might have an emotional Reason to do so I did

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But I never Even Even if my my strongs

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I never as a result Kicked these people out of the kingdom, you know

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My first introduction to Greg Bonson was his debate with Gordon Stein and so Even when

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I recognized I didn't agree With Bonson on theonomy

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I didn't Dismiss him as an unbeliever. I didn't refuse to cooperate with him

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I've told people before the reason I debated Jerry matics twice in Nebraska a

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Number of years ago was I took Greg Bonson's place He contacted me and asked me to take his place so he could debate the two homosexuals that he debated

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No, Greg was ahead of the curve on Seeing what was coming as far as the homosexual movement and things like that.

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So I didn't Refuse to have cooperation with I didn't kick these people out of the kingdom.

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I'm not gonna treat them in that in that fashion and yet This announcement is made and Wow the the nastiness

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That flows forth from reformed people. That's that's why I said earlier, you know, I've said in the past The Reformed Club take it or leave it as The description it has historical validity and therefore sorry needs to be maintained, but I'm gonna tell you some some of the biggest jerks

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I know self identify as reformed It's it's sad it should not be that way it should not be that way but it is and The You know, so there were reformed

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Baptists who? You know retweeted that tweet or whatever. They're just so disappointed and And there are certain people

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Certain subjects whether it's post -millennialism not Quite so much on that but man you you mentioned theonomy

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You mentioned God's law on almost any positive way And if anything is I really haven't changed my views since I preached a decade ago

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Through the Holiness Code. I'm just willing to go. Yeah Yeah in any meaningful analysis the way

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I approached the law there is a theonomic perspective I recognize there are different Schools within the theonomic camp and I'm willing to go that person goes there and that person goes there and that person goes there and I can appreciate this this and this and I Don't have to you know

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Sign on to one particular and and kick all the rest of them out of the kingdom But man, there are some people who've got some really strongly emotional commitments on this subject that just There is no reasoning at all it is just it's as bad as some of the worst anti -calvinists out there they just they will not will not listen and There's not much you can do about it, but that is also the case amongst these are people to call themselves reformed to they just Really really go after it so all of that going back to If you want to communicate

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To the next generation The culture of life, where are you gonna find that?

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Well, I Think this is where some confusion comes in because we recognize The righteous standard of God's law can only condemn the self -righteous

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Law is not a source of life But it is a source of a knowledge of what is pleasing to God for those who have received life

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By grace through faith alone anybody who ever ascribes to the law

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Any kind of saving power in and of itself has missed has missed the whole point

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None of us are saying that I I see people saying all the theonomist believe Theonomist denies sola fidei and sola gradia, and it's just like no, please

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Silliness but they go there Anybody who ascribed who says well, you're actually teaching justification by works and baloney what we are saying is that God has revealed his holy character and We as his creatures want to know his holy characters so that we can be holy as he is

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Holy now only the Holy Spirit of God gives us that desire only the Holy Spirit of God can accomplish that within us But he's not left us just to stick our fingers up in the air and go.

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Well, um Okay, we'll do this. Okay, we'll do that there. He has provided the general equity he has provided us with the general principles and They are general principles.

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Why? because of the fact that they have to be applied across many different kinds of cultures and what people understand is one of the great blessings of how

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God has done this is We recognize that there have been times when Christians especially in the

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West have confused Their Western understanding with the definition of Christianity itself and tried to force that upon people outside Western cultures

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You have to become like us to be a Christian. Hmm. That sounds a little bit like Oh Acts chapter 15

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You have to become a Jew before you become a Christian. You have to go into the Old Covenant for you in the New Covenant and The church rejected that But I think there's been a lot of times in church history, we're especially

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Christians in the West have said hey the only way is to is to Go all the way and and become like us and so What we want is we want those general principles of God's law to be applied and that will be the source of life

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Fulfillment happiness and everything else That's what that's we want

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We reject autonomy. We see what autonomy is creating amongst mankind

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We don't find a Noahic Covenant to be anywhere near sufficient and we recognize that natural law requires a recognition of Man's fallen state as interpreted by Scripture And then the role of his specific law

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That goes far beyond anything that natural law could ever provide to us. So This is part of how we pass on to the next generation something that they can then pass on to the next generation and the next generation the next generation all that depend upon the

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Providential preservation of Scripture which God has provided to us in the manuscript evidence so on and so forth, so I've gone 32 minutes on an introductory thought

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By the way Just want to mention

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Extend our Condolences to the Talbot family. Dr.

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Kenneth Talbot. I I did not know. Dr. Talbot personally But I knew a lot of people that did because of Whitfield Theological Seminary Which again, you know

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Whitfield's one of those places that is focused upon producing people who will work in the church I'm gonna get in trouble for saying this but so well

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I get in trouble for saying anything It is As I get older it is more and more plain and clear to me the difference between seminaries and colleges that are focused upon the service of the church and those that are focused upon the service of the

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Academy and I think that has ramifications today in many in many ways and Dr.

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Talbot Dr. Talbot Jeff Durbin got his MDiv there.

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He described on Facebook today the grueling experience of his final oral exams the two days like 16 hours and Which by the way is significantly more than what you would face in most

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Quote -unquote ATS accredited schools. I know that I've taught in both contexts and Anyway, I know that Jeff was deeply moved by his passing and but deeply moved more by his by his ministry and so our condolences to The Whitfield Seminary Family and dr.

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Talbot and his family in his home going but we are

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Christians and we We grieve not as those who have no hope doesn't mean we don't grieve

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But we grieve as those who have hope there's vast difference between grieving with and without hope

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Huge subject subject. I would like in it today, but and again a situation where you know

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There would have been various Theological issues that I would not have been in full agreement with everything.

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Dr. Talbot said and It doesn't stinking matter if you have some level of Christian maturity

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Some level of Christian maturity there are differences that we would expect in this world and then there are

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Differences that actually Separate and when you can't tell what the differences are between those that's um, that's a problem

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So, um A couple other things I saw a as As as I am prepping for My early church history class that I'll be teaching in a couple weeks

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Squirrels coming down. I I'll have to admit squirrel When I saw you had gone down for Scott annuals class

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But I wasn't sure whether you were coming down to mine. I was sort of sitting there watching

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Twitter and watching y 'all sitting around at the seminary and going out to eat and Stuff like that We didn't get too much going out to eat last time

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I was there because we were I was there in the middle of an Ice storm, which is pretty unusual for Conway, but we had a nice storm.

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It was Interesting, but I'm looking forward to get to do that this time and in fact what

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I want to do is I want to One of those nights it's short.

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It's an intensive class hours and hours, but I'm gonna try to have enough physical strength and energy to Probably that Friday night

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Depending if there's something in the way, but do something after class where we sit around in the library there and do some

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We're just gonna such limited time to read from many of the early writers do sort of a

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Story time with uncle Jimmy thing from the early early writers but anyways, I was really glad to see that that squirrel is going to be coming down to the live class in Conway and So how to get into that in Preparation for that you you can't help but once again be revisiting the extremely important discussion in the early church on the subject of what does

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Athens have to do with Jerusalem to tell Ian's phrase and the fact that there were wide and Definitional differences between someone like Clement of Alexandria and Tertullian Justin martyred

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Lido Sardis on the role of Greek philosophy in the

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Defining of Christian theology and the explanation of Christian theology and everything that goes along with them and So Scott Swain the president

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RTS, Orlando tweeted a while back While back as in earlier today

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I'm not saying Plato stole from Moses. I'm just saying it's the most plausible hypothesis and If you're familiar with early church history, you know that there were those early

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Christians who? theorized that The good to be found in Greek philosophy was due to a

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Basically a form of plagiarism on the part of people like Plato or Aristotle Borrowing from Moses Now I'm not sure how widely known

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Moses would have been and as far as I know the vast majority of scholarship

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Scoffs at the idea but of course there are floods stories and narratives in many many primitive peoples

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And so Could there be all sorts of elements of divine truth that are found in Moses?

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Wouldn't that include his law? In Moses that would be

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Passed on That would be part of oral history and and and things along those lines

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Suppose it's possible, but I found it interesting especially with the continuing

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Emphasis upon many in the promotion of Craig Carter's theories even though there have been plenty of critical reviews very negative critical reviews of Carter's thesis this idea of Christian Platonism as a

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Necessary safeguard, so I guess Christian Platonism Christian Aristotelianism, I'm not sure how you put those two together, but these are all we are being told

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Necessary and important and good Defenses of Christian orthodoxy and So I find it interesting that in that context, that's the context behind the great tradition stuff and great tradition next

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Jesus all the rest this kind of stuff that clearly a certain group of Christian scholars today have decided is

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Of utmost importance and they are working together To communicate that concept to the next generation of seminary students and That's happening all over the place

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I I noticed that tweet after seeing yet another person

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Post a you're blocked from Matthew Barrett. I'm blocked by Matthew Barrett and I'm a little surprised someone hasn't yet taken the

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Twitter block screen Because it's got dr. Barrett's picture and it's got his you know, he advertises simply

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Trinity and his CT book awards thing, you know, I have a picture of a mountain or something

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Um in the background, but you know says at Matt M Barrett, you're blocked.

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You can't follow or see I have one of those too. I'm I'm blocked too. Of course, that means it takes two more clicks to read what you want to read

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You click on the link open an incognito window and And it's really doesn't do much but hey,

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I get it. I've got a long block list because that helps me not to have to see the Nastiness from folks, but it's not it's not because people are nasty

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It's because people disagree That seems to be dr. Barrett's basis or for blocking is

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Disagreement Not being nasty. It can be respectful disagreement, whatever, but he blocks a lot of folks so it was in looking at that, but I saw the

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The other tweet that we just made reference to regarding regarding Plato and So that was interesting ah,

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I suppose It's it's important to look at these threads speaking of Dr.

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Barrett Um, let me see if I've got two different windows here, yeah, so I thought oh that's not it

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Too many Too many Derek. No, that's not it either Or to go

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Sit in Dropbox Nope, is it in downloads? Uh, nope, okay.

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Come on. I remember having a 20 meg hard drive and the problem was you know

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You didn't know where to find stuff. And now you've got eight gigabytes and It's it's too big to find anything.

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I Think somebody posted it in here. Nope. That's that's our

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Scott Clark's loving commentary. We'll get to that in a moment Um, I thought somebody had posted it in element to Drat thought

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I had it all queued up, but it was a there it is

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There it is, okay, man, I wish this would only blow it up to certain point

44:01

Dr. Barrett posted a ETS session a new session at ETS, which will be coming up in a couple months

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It's Adonis Vedu and I are teaming up this year at ETS we will lead a new session holiness

44:25

Evangelical theologians in dialogue with Thomas Aquinas. Do you find that?

44:35

title Somewhat strange Now the defense will be what we're talking.

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We're in dialogue with Remember this the same guy who had who is behind a

44:52

Scholarship for people And to get the scholarship you have to write papers that sound as much like Thomas Aquinas as possible.

45:00

All right, so I Define in dialogue with in light of that, but I Can remember a time long long ago like five months ago

45:19

Where what we were being told is a bit we're not promoting a client we don't care if anybody reads

45:24

Aquinas It's it's just his theology

45:30

It's the narrow spectrum of his theology of the Trinity, it's it's it's simplicity it's it's

45:39

Add intra attributional sameness, it's You know, it's the end result of this 1200 year process and he finally puts it all together

45:49

And but it's just that one thing. We're not we you know, we know there's all sorts of problems of Aquinas, right?

45:59

right, so Holiness Evangelical theolog the theologians in dialogue with Thomas Aquinas including

46:12

Craig Carter. Oh And then we have the titles of everyone's papers

46:22

Holiness the Christian life and spiritual marriage in Aquinas Of Barrett's doing the beatific vision and the

46:31

Thomistic telos of systematic theology Michael Allen sacred doctrina

46:37

Thomas Aquinas on sanctification and scholastic practice those don't sound like they're anything to do with the narrow focus of Aquinas is doctrine of the

46:52

Trinity do they in fact How are you made holy in?

47:00

The theology of the 13th century Roman Church because again

47:08

Any honest historian is going to recognize that Aquinas is in full submission to the magisterium of the church and to the

47:18

Pope now This is post

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Lateran fourth Lateran Council 1215 so You you do have dogmatic teaching on transubstantiation, which of course

47:39

Aquinas himself adds to he provides the philosophical foundation the

47:44

Aristotelian categories for Transubstantiation and the idea of the sacrifice of the mass as a propitiatory sacrifice

47:51

And I've I've always argued that to me is the central aspect of Roman Catholic Worship and theology and therefore that's a good place to mark the beginning of what would be

48:04

Consistently Roman Catholic But Holiness how do you become holy in?

48:16

Aquinas's theology over against Reformation theology

48:22

Huh? So at the evangelical theological society Holiness the

48:29

Christian life and spiritual marriage in Aquinas the the beatific vision and the to mystic tell us a systematic theology

48:39

Thomas Aquinas and sanctification and scholastic sanctification There is a confusion in Thomas Of sanctification and justification

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Does it become more dogmatically defined in later centuries by Rome? Yeah, but the confusion is still there

49:00

Huh? I Don't know. Has anyone suggested the possibility that maybe this to mystic revival

49:11

Will have ramifications beyond simply the narrow spectrum of Trinitarian theology has anyone suggested that We all did and here we have it laid out right for us

49:27

Coming to the event evangelical theological society

49:35

There you go, um, I just saw the other one here, yeah, see if there's

49:46

Nope. Okay Just checking open. Everything's everything's still cool back there

49:52

Uh, dr. Pierce in in Phoenix, um

50:00

Yep, all right. The phone is doing good Verizon's making a lot of money off of us

50:11

So someone posted we all can remember a guy named Luke Reformed kid,

50:19

I think 1517 I think Said a problem of all is how they form theology even while proclaiming it and then there's a someone had made a meme and it's of me

50:32

Preaching in Luther's pulpit. I have to wonder if when people use that particular picture. It's just out of pure jealousy

50:38

Because you only wish And it says source

50:43

George Bryson versus James White debate, I'm sure This was not the actual debate

50:51

So that's sort of misnomer it was the Bible answer man broadcast and You know who's made that available all these years we we arranged in 2010 because That was last time.

51:08

I was on Bible answer man I knew at the beginning of the program that was could be the last time I was broadcast and it was

51:17

But It wasn't available for quite some time and we made arrangements in 2010 to be able to Make that available ourselves, which we did and So it was a radio program

51:36

And the quote is yes. God is responsible and he does decree child rape Slash James White.

51:43

So here we are again Back to whatever year that was to was it 2003?

51:50

I think it was 2003 where This is obviously

51:56

George Bryson's rejection of Ephesians 1 11 and Then the

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Reformed statement of that from the Westminster Confession of Faith God decrees whatsoever comes to pass in time So if you in any way shape or form

52:13

Hold to Westminster London Mass Confession any kind of reformed faith if you've bothered to take the time to read

52:19

Calvin You know that this is something that every reformed theologian needs to respond to it is obvious to just put in the worst possible situation so as to create emotion rather than thought and you know that Calvin dealt with it and Every reformed theologian since then has but It is fundamentally a means of rejecting

52:48

God's sovereignty over what takes place in time There are various ways of doing it simple for knowledge open theism but every single

53:00

Christian Yeah, 12 16 2003. Yeah, I knew it was all three.

53:06

It was right when we got back from the cruise in Florida And I was sick as a dog a few days before that.

53:13

But anyway I'm not sure I say sick as a dog. I rarely see dogs that are sick.

53:20

But anyway We every person every single individual who has any knowledge of Come on what are you doing?

53:33

Yeah the read my book debate on BAM Is that like I'm sure it's on sermon audio

53:38

But anyway, you can find it there. I don't know how

53:45

Luke would respond to that If you were put in that particular position

53:52

But Despite being in a situation where it was two -on -one and The host was very much on the other person's side and this was a part of a planned approach

54:05

We all figured that out fairly quickly The Reality is far more people

54:11

Came to embrace reform theology as a result of that then Then the other side could have ever understood

54:17

I cannot tell you how many people over the years have said I was yelling at the radio.

54:23

I couldn't believe what you were saying but I could also tell you're the only one going to Scripture because I responded to the accusation from George Bryson by going to Scripture and I talked about numerous biblical examples of God's sovereign decree in time man's responsibility before God But the simple fact that it is not some synergistic mishmash.

54:54

That's not a reformed position It's not a biblical position and We've done entire programs just look up George Bryson in the search bar

55:07

At amin .org and there will be all sorts of stuff Where over the years people have dredged this thing back up and they don't give a context.

55:17

They don't give a link you know, it's But here's the guy who says he's proclaiming reform theology, but a problem

55:27

I've always had Now, maybe he's just being honest saying I don't you know, I'm not sure how

55:32

I would respond to this So I recognize but what was interesting was

55:40

R. Scott Clark now R. Scott Clark, of course over at Westminster Dr.

55:46

Clark About I don't know was about ten years ago Dr. Clark's elders wisely removed him from social media.

55:56

I think they even shut down the Heidel blog for a while Because he doesn't handle things well, he's irascible

56:05

And he's imbalanced and he's unfair and he can be very very sharp and unkind That's just everybody knows that Everybody just oh you're being like R.

56:15

Scott Clark Now I get accused the same things But the reality is

56:20

I'm not the one sitting here saying I am the only reformed person on the planet And that's pretty much what?

56:29

But he will You know, he he just feels he has the right and the position to define what reformed is

56:39

Doesn't like me He had me blocked for a while in the past. I haven't checked to see if I I'm still am

56:47

But he responded to that meme And it's gonna be hard for me to read this

56:55

Oh That's that's a

57:04

It's a different different guy he Basically, I think someone did post

57:11

I think bill did for me. Oh, I didn't even see that Okay, never mind anything that I said positively about Luke.

57:27

I Just I just saw Luke it's reformed kid 1517

57:39

Retweeted a guy named Benjamin Robertson Robert Goodman Wilson and white are charlatans and clowns

57:45

Isn't it nice to be loved? Have you noticed I did want to mention this and I'm sort of running out of time maybe

57:52

I'll get to Trotter later on because there's a Young guy

57:58

My name Trotter that Decided that he has the authority and position to Say that apology a church isn't a real church.

58:08

It's just astonishing. I think there'd be some benefit from Asking why is it that in our day?

58:16

There are young men in seminaries who think they have The ground to make that kind of statement

58:25

That just wasn't the case In in my day and even when

58:30

I have had strong disagreements with people give you an example, I think I Think Andy Stanley's just off the chain.

58:38

He's disconnecting himself. Not just from the Old Testament, but from Everything that's sound theology

58:45

But I'm never gonna sit here and say the Holy Spirit of God does not Act at his church

58:54

No one's ever been saved there. No one's ever been sanctified there. I'm not gonna say that. I'm not that foolish

59:03

I Realize I have be folks say things and stuff like that. They're not even thinking through what they're saying

59:09

How are you ever gonna answer before Christ someday when he shows you? Where by his spirit he had his sheep for his own purposes so many of you you came out of churches like that and You the only answer you have to why you were there is that God was preparing you for the ministry

59:26

You're now having in helping other people, but God kept you in those situations he was active in sanctifying and there's gonna be an astonishing amount of stuff to be answered for But I I just as as a young man

59:44

Maybe it was just the way I was raised and people's aren't raised this way anymore No, but it's astonishing the number of people who are young men in seminary

59:54

Who think that They can dismiss 30 40 years of ministry in somebody's life just because you have a disagree with me on a theological issue

01:00:04

That's it. You're done. You're gone We'll look at that later on. But anyways, so Benjamin Robert Goodman, whoever in the world that is

01:00:12

Wilson White are charlatans and clowns. Well, thank you very much. You will answer for that You will answer for this kind of behavior and slander and Luke says

01:00:26

I don't know what his issue with JD Hall was

01:00:35

But I'm not gonna I'm not gonna get into that one there but back to Sorry Yeah, there was more conversation this

01:00:56

Luke fell I don't know why he calls himself reformed Doesn't seem to actually understand that There it is, here's our

01:01:04

Scott Clark In Responding to that mean okay that again was taking one

01:01:14

Portion of a radio program out of context doesn't give a link so you can listen to the rest of it Doesn't give you the you know, let's put this way.

01:01:23

I Would love to hear our Scott Clark on a radio program With basically 60 to 90 seconds to address the same issue.

01:01:35

I don't think he's gonna do any better than I did Really don't But Like I said, he's rather irascible

01:01:44

So he says the reformed church's are not liable for the proclamation of some Baptist guy who mouths off This question is much more complex and the

01:01:56

Westminster Confession is much more nuanced than the way the way that white puts it Twitter is not a good place.

01:02:02

You're trying to have this convo Hypocrisy is astonishing the hypocrisy is sitting behind his keyboard

01:02:10

Not on a national radio program live. I don't think our Scott Clark would do well in that context There are a lot of scholars who would not a lot of people are a whole lot smarter than I am

01:02:19

But they cannot think off the top of their head. They can't do it. I've said many times There are certain people should never debate

01:02:27

They're a lot smarter than I am, but they can not multitask. They cannot interact.

01:02:33

They can't look at a clock You know, I'm sitting there I remember it very clearly

01:02:38

I remember where I was seated Eddie Dalcour was sitting next to me. I remember where George Bryson was.

01:02:47

I remember what the studio looked like and What you have to do is

01:02:53

You have to Know when the brakes are you need to know what the clock is if you don't know what a clock is then but every live radio program has a clock and so there are breaks at certain times and You've got to be able to see the clock and know what the program clock is.

01:03:15

So, you know how much time you have left I've ever noticed that in situations like that.

01:03:21

I'm always wrapping up right as they're going to the break Whereas the people that I'm debating with are stumbling and fumbling and they get cut off in mid -sentence

01:03:30

It's because I grew up doing radio. I Know when UPI world news is gonna start. I've got to be done.

01:03:36

And so you Make it so that you can actually make a point

01:03:42

You're finishing with the point right as the music is coming up the other side doesn't even have a chance to respond this just how did how you do it and so Here I am in that situation.

01:03:55

He's sitting behind a keyboard and He goes the Westminster Confession is much more nuanced than the way that white puts it really

01:04:06

Astonishing Ah Really?

01:04:13

Okay, that's that's that's good I've written Published books on this

01:04:20

I can guarantee he's never read one of them. I guarantee he's not even listened to the actual conversation

01:04:27

That would on that would be on his part showing too much respect for someone that he just simply loathes and It's sad.

01:04:35

I don't loathe him. I feel sorry for I See he has a serious issue in dealing with other

01:04:41

Christians and that can't be a good thing in his own personal life. I'm sorry But the

01:04:48

Westminster Confession of Faith was not written in 64 seconds that section

01:04:57

They got to think about and discuss and write drafts and go back and forth

01:05:04

Yeah, it might be a little more nuanced just like my discussions in say the potter's freedom, yeah

01:05:15

It is truly amazing to see the kind of behavior like I said

01:05:22

Jacob Trotter That's my apology. Apology. Apology a church not even a real church

01:05:31

And what's the reason for all this The motivation in that situation is again the issues regarding a fundamental shift in the direction we're going in our

01:05:49

Attempting to go in our schools and If you dare sound the alarm and go hey

01:05:56

This is happening Wow, you're gonna you're gonna pay them pay the piper and And we are cancel culture the sad thing that the saddest thing is when people

01:06:11

That I've had wonderful fellowship with them past Will accept what they have heard.

01:06:18

Oh, I heard that You know have problems the Trinity And You just have to sit there and look at somebody and go really would

01:06:32

Would you appreciate if people did that to you that you you believe what somebody else says without Listening to the original context that asking question seems to be a very popular perspective amongst people in reformed dumb today and It's it's sad.

01:06:57

But anyways Covered a lot of I think helpful and interesting things today The first half hour was completely unplanned but ended up being a good thing and Like I said,

01:07:12

I I don't know what next week's gonna look like With long days of travel long days of travel.

01:07:20

Well, I try to keep days of travel at about four to five hours Driving at most they're gonna be eight hour days minimum each one

01:07:30

So, we'll see we'll see we'll we'll do the best we can first appreciate it for safe travel and Lord willing at some point next week.