EFCA Censoring Pastor for Opposing Covid Regs? & SBC Cooperation Board

Conversations That Matter

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We're live now on the conversations that matter podcast Some people are telling me in the chat.

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I haven't even said a word yet and People are saying that YouTube is already

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For those streaming on YouTube flagging this video for misinformation so I'm not sure what that would be about maybe a certain virus

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That could be which I don't really plan to get into details on but I guess it was in one of my tags or something

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And so they've decided they're going to preemptively warn all of you Well, welcome to I guess a very dangerous podcast with views that you're not supposed to hear according to YouTube We'll get through it though.

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We will survive and we're in this together, right? We you heard that for years and I still believe it.

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I still believe that we're in this together, so Anyway, this is a little bit of an informal podcast.

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I did not announce this I Was just thinking about the fact that I only did one podcast so far this week and there's a reason for that I've been pretty busy with a bunch of things some some medical things and then

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And and don't worry. I'm okay. I'm everyone everyone's okay. There's no Problems that are life -threatening or anything like that, but but I spent some time this week on the road and in doctor's offices and In the time

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I did have to be at home I wanted to spend really thinking about some speeches that I'm gonna be giving and One of them

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I mean you could say I got carried away, but I've been I think it's important. I've been researching classical liberalism and trying to understand it better and Brushing up on this week.

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I was reading some Old philosophers like John Locke and this

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Enlightenment philosophers really Thomas Hobbes Jean Jacques Rousseau and Under trying to understand what changes took place what transitioned us from a more medieval society and more

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Christian civilization really to the society that we exist in today and And this is of course something

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I had opinions on before last week, but I think that I'm Gaining a better grasp of of how secularization took place and what its implications are and how that's affected us deeply very deeply in ways that Are surprising so I'm writing right now

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A speech to give at the Jesus and politics conference, which I'll have more information for you on not not too long

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I've not really said much about it because The retreats or the men's conference

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I should say is right around the corner It's actually next week. And so I'm gonna be giving a speech there as well

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But this is literally your last chance Like if you want to come to the men's conference October 21st through the 24th in Speculator, New York like later today

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I am sending in the the rooming lists and Letting them know how many people were coming and all of that.

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We're arranging the schedule. So you have to do it like now You can email me probably the best way to contact me would be info at truth script calm

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It'll make its way to me if you have any questions, but but this is the last chance. So anyway I did let people know that I'm gonna take questions today any questions you have so But let me just finish up real quick the classical liberal thing.

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So I've been looking into this and and you know, basically this kind of notion

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I suppose that we ought to have Neutral societies

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That protect someone's right to choose because that is the primary I would say the individual is the primary building block of society not really the family the individual and the power of the individual to choose and give consent is what gives any validity to humans associations including civil government and And so that idea

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I think has made its way very very deep and it is Ideological and it does lead to some of the same things that we saw actually in Soviet countries

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Through a different route. It's not entirely the same I'm not saying they're exactly parallel, but they both come from this route of Enlightenment rationalism and they do lead to Ironically, this is the weird part right?

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Valuing individual freedom actually leads to bigger government and I have to define that carefully it's it's not individual freedom in the sense that Individuals are endowed with certain rights

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I do think that is the case and that was part of the the pre -existing understanding that Christians had before the

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Enlightenment That there were certain things that were within the jurisdiction of individuals as but they were attached to responsibilities as they had responsibilities before God to do the good and and of course

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Now though that has been Twisted to take away the element of responsibility and it's really just individuals can do anything they can pursue any vice and As long as it's on a personal level, then it's perfectly fine.

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And I uncovered today I was looking at a number of people if I told you their names you would recognize them

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I don't want to give away the speech but Big conservative names and some evangelical names that said things that frankly if you if you listen to them

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They're shocking that they would say them but they come to two conclusions about allowing certain moral evils and maybe even defending them and their free exercise of them at least because They value this neutral public square.

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And so Has that been successful? That's the that's the question I don't even think consent can can save kids from groomers at this point

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I mean, I think it's been a failed project for the most part So I'll take a few questions before I get into really

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I have two or three topics Depending on how much time we have that we can talk about today Regarding the evangelical free church regarding the

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Southern Baptist Convention And then I was going to show you if you haven't seen already There's a little video that Apple just put out there that I think is is funny in a way

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It's sad. It's scary in a way too, but it's it's interesting. So let me take some questions, though We have

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Scott Scott Crawford saying can you speak to why the g3 guys are still going after Stephen Wolfe?

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And Matthew Fletcher, what's g3? Okay, so I have two questions

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So yeah, g3 is a ministry. It's an organization

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Designed or with a mission of assisting local churches, and hopefully I'm not getting anything wrong in that I'm being general enough hopefully to encapsulate all the things that they do and they would claim to be reformed

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I think they're they're Baptist if I'm not mistaken on Not saying they don't have

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Presbyterians ever speak there or Anglicans. I don't think they do though. I think it is primarily

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Baptist, but Be that as it may I'll answer Scott's question sort of I think there's going to be more conversations about this next week for everyone who's listening this there has been attempts made through back channels to Rectify at least get conversations going to Maybe solve this issue and and all

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I can say at this point is that so far I don't think any of these attempts have been successful and we're going on now a few months really

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And because of that, I think that some things are going to be I think there's implications to that I think that when you have a strained relationship think about it on a personal level

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Let's let's say you have a strained relationship and someone who you would consider to be a friend

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And and perhaps they're a Christian as well Like you consider them a brother or sister in Christ, but they they keep misrepresenting you or they keep saying things that you know aren't true or malicious or you know, whatever the case may be and And they and they have a public platform they're broadcasting this publicly

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Let's say and they're saying this about you and you try to come to them as a friend and Then their reaction is that they they don't want to treat you though in that way the relationship you thought you had isn't really the relationship that they think that you have with them and And I think that that's everyone has situations like that in their lives.

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I view this in a similar fashion, right? if you can kind of get the all the static out of the way and you know and on accounts that that say things and you know that are sometimes a little off the wall or Just Some of the more ridiculous and silly arguments because so many of them have been silly in this whole

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I guess I would frame it as a g3 versed proto. It's not even Christian nationalist proto -christian nationalist

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It includes people that don't even take the label. I would say that If you try to take those things away at the end of the day

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What you seem to have is a Hesitation and that's a mild term probably more likely would be an unwillingness to really approach this whole disagreement on an equal footing on a footing where you're both viewing the other party as brothers and sisters in Christ where With the intention of working out differences or at least clarifying disagreements

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And and since these things have been made public letting the public know where these disagreements are So so iron can sharpens iron that that has failed in my opinion, and I think the time is very short

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The g3 conference is what the end of next week. I think time is very short because you know if if they do have which

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I'm assuming they're going to they have a pre -conference that's I guess going to be addressing some of these things if they do say some of the things that Many are thinking they're going to say.

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I think that the damage at that point is just permanent. So if any of you I mean last -ditch efforts if any of you know anyone that works for for g3 and And I'm talking about specifically people like Josh by Scott and Neil people.

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I've reached out to Virgil Walker. I Would say Owen Strand too. I mean he speaks for them and and he's definitely been part of this

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I would any of those guys, you know, if you're close to any of them I would just plead with them at this point to to try to I guess offer an olive branch of some kind to at least let the other side know that there is a humility there that wants to understand what the objections and misunderstandings are and And that's really all

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I have to say about that for now. I know that's a whole minefield to get into But you know some some other questions

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Let's see here Someone asked me if I've listened to Bill Roach's talk on Christian nationalism.

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I didn't know it was out. Bill actually had privately Texted me and said he would send it to me. So this is the first time hearing

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I did not know that He hasn't texted me. So I now I know I am looking forward to hopefully listening to that at some point.

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I Did see I think this was maybe what a month or two ago Bill had Put out something and most of you probably don't know who this is.

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He has been on the podcast before though and You know as far as I know, we're friends. I think we're friends, but Bill Bill and I have known each other for a few years now

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He was a professor at Southeastern and philosophy an adjunct professor at one time And so and because I went to Southeastern we had a commonality there and we were both opposed to the social justice stuff that was happening there and Anyway Bill had posted something if I if memory serves me correctly.

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This was maybe two months ago on I think Saying that there was a

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Hegelian element to Christian nationalism, which you know, it it's postmodern.

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It's Hegelian there's all these things that are being kind of thrown out there and I guess I have a natural skepticism a little bit when someone starts throwing those terms out there and And And they're not easily explained.

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And so I asked him to explain that like I am open. I want to understand what you're saying I mean some books

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I've been reading have been showing that or talking about how classical liberalism is actually Hegelian or there's a

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Hegelian element to it And of course Marxism certain Marx was certainly influenced by Hegel, but you know,

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I don't know Hegelian ism is Hegelian philosophy is also broad. It's not like there's one thing.

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I mean most of the time I think when people say that they're talking about the you know thesis antithesis synthesis and the

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Dialectic and stuff, but but I didn't know exactly what he meant. So I asked him about it and he said hey

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I'm gonna be releasing this and when I release it, I'll let you know so that's the last I've heard about it and I do look forward to it, but As the people are saying that Hegel's based, okay

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Maybe you know some of Hegel I was I actually read a book on Hegel not long ago Because I wanted to understand

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Hegel better. I mean I took philosophy so I I had to do understand him a little bit but I read a book on him and the book was actually making the argument in one section that some of the accusations

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Hegel gets for Inspiring authoritarian regimes and so forth is actually not a correct reading of Hegel and so So maybe we'll wade into that at some point.

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It's an interesting field, but it's easy to get lost in the weeds, I suppose Let's see other questions here

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Yeah, Craig Chambers who has been on the podcast says good afternoon brother saw the EFCA title

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Joining in yeah, I'm gonna briefly talk about it. It's not gonna be very long. I'm gonna briefly talk about the evangelical free church

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All right, well, I think that's it for the the questions. Oh wait, there's one more.

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What is this? Okay, John What's the nice profile pic by the way? Das Vandiver John what's the the balance between honoring the landmarks ie authority figures and institutions?

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But also recognizing when they failed ie Jenna Ellis's continual appeal to the Constitution Yeah, that's a big question,

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I guess I would say that It Landmarks, I'm not

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I'm assuming you just mean kind of like hierarchy so authority structures that were once in place that we once trusted that once had some authority and and And some of them still do but we recognize that they've failed us and that we don't trust them anymore.

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I think I Don't know if they're a balance is even the word. I mean, it's it's again.

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I'd like to break things down to a smaller level To make them more understandable so I Think that Let's put it in this context.

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Let's say you attend a church and there's someone let's say there's a pastor there We'll make it an authority figure who really does have legitimate authority or life

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Jenna Ellis has no authority over my life, but let's say it's someone who actually does and They've been preaching, you know fairly solid at least you respect them.

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Let's say, you know little disagreements But for the most part, you know, you're on you're in agreement

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And you feel comfortable submitting to them and then you know one day they start going off the deep end

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They start saying things that you know, aren't true they become belligerent when you try to confront them about it or even ask questions about it and and then there's a pattern of that happening and I Think at that point there's a natural thing that takes place you lose respect and once you lose respect

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For someone it's it takes time to get that back right it takes repentance it takes a course correction that you can clearly see that this person is not off the deep end anymore and so I Have a hard time writing people off forever.

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I don't think we should ever really do that But I do I'll put it this way.

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I never really listened to Jenna Ellis's. I think she has a podcast. I never listened to that anyway But if I did and I did know who she was at least

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I have for a few years right now I don't think I would be listening to it if I had been and it's just because it's it's it's not that You can't disagree with someone and still value their opinion.

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I'm not saying that but it's it's more Whatever basis for respect that had been there is kind of eroded at this point because of her online interaction

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Some of you might not even know what I'm speaking of. I'm assuming the person who asked the question does but She's been acting in ways that are just Hard to make sense of I'll put it that way wild accusations against people even and friends of mine to be quite honest and I've I think

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I engaged with her once where I She was taking aim at the idea of blasphemy laws, which by the way, we already have

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I mean if you that's really in a way what a hate crime is It's why you can't say certain words or there's certain symbols that if you desecrate them, there's a stiffer penalty.

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We have blasphemy laws We have protected classes that shall not be

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Disrespected in any way and they have the legal force to prevent you from saying something that could be construed as disrespectful, right?

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so this is just the way it is and I think that's probably an inescapable

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Feature of any civil society there's going to be a god of that society or something they worship that Provides the rationale for the society to function and once you attack that underlying rationale you're attacking the basis for society itself, and it's destabilizing and It promotes disrespectable laws and that kind of thing.

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And so Blasphemy laws were just part and parcel to the founding of the United States.

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They were just included in Everywhere. I mean it was just it was ubiquitous The founders of this country and I'm speaking of those who framed the

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Constitution. I mean, they didn't really see a conflict existing between the local and state blue laws blasphemy laws that they lived under Sabbath breaking laws and The freedom of conscience that many of them held to and the

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Bill of Rights and those kinds of things They didn't see a conflict there But today we do and in part of part of the reason

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I think is the classical liberalism I talked about at the beginning of this it is just made it is marched more progressively in an egalitarian direction so you know with that said

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I had I Think Jenna was going after maybe it was Steven or someone for I think it was

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CJ angle Actually, she was really viciously going after him and he wants to replace he wants to take

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I think it was Have a civil war and replace the Constitution and all these things which

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I don't think it's true but I just Posted or retweeted it and put a picture of George Washington and then

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George Washington's There was actually twice in 1775 1775 and 1776

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George Washington ordered his army and there was punishments involved that they did not heed this this order to Not blaspheme and to also attend church services

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And so I just asked whether or not, you know, George Washington was a tyrant because she was calling I guess it was CJ angle a tyrant.

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So I mean, I'm trying to ask questions I'm sure you know that that's the only way I had them dealing with this

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But but I think that there's enough out there at this point to say all right, let's find better leaders if if we're going to listen to commentary and if we're going to follow it and Put someone out there in the public sphere to represent us then it's probably not going to be someone like that we want someone who's going to be accurate and faithful to what they're analyzing and And has the correct

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I guess system of Values and understanding to be able to evaluate those things

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So that's a long -winded answer. I suppose I could have probably said that in a shorter way, but hopefully that helps

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I Realize that means we have a vacuum right now And I don't know what to say about that other than we need to pray we need to just pray

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There's so many I tweeted out this morning. There are so many Just leadership courses and Leadership programs and degrees in leadership and so few leaders and it's a very sad thing to me

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Okay, so and I think that's it for questions for now. Let's get into some stuff. How's that? Let's get into some stuff

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Where should we start? I I guess we'll start with EFC a maybe since oh And by the way, if I didn't mention it overcoming evil conference comm if you're a last -minute, you know

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You want to sign up last -minute? EFC a and socialjustice .wordpress

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.com EFC a and socialjustice .wordpress .com is the website this is an article and it's very long

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I'm not going to read this whole thing, but I was tipped off to this because One of the pastors actually who writes for truth script is in the

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EFC a or was I should say was in the EFC a and He sent this to me and he

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Just like we had seen pastor clear Recently being censored by the evangelical free church for his anti social justice views now.

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We see pastor David Whitney also being censored so his Basically, his ordination is being called into question is my understanding of how this works and it's on a different stand

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It's on it's because not not social justice but because of kovat stuff, which is probably why you saw a

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Warning on this video because that dreaded word is going to be in it But he starts it off The story that sequentially of what happened to him by saying back in November of 2020

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My cluster in the EFC a East met by zoom I assume that means the cluster is probably a group of pastors in that region

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He said during the session each pastor was asked how his church was doing during the pandemic I replied that we had not shut down in person worship during this time and he gave his reasons for that My statements he said seems to upset and anger several pastors in our cluster

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I didn't know it at the time but three pastors began investigating my sermons and demanding a meeting just before Christmas The timing did not work for me.

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So we ultimately met on zoom prior to the meeting I asked one of the pastors guy knee bone for a list of questions

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They would be asking so he could prepare. He never got a list pastor knee bone

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I'm hoping I'm saying the names right Keens and Rydell right right L. We've actually we have talked about him

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He is very woke from the clips that we've seen He interrogated me for two and a half hours and they were very aggressive in their attacks on many things

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Which I said in the sermon they had listened to pastor Keens said that he would be horrified

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If anyone in his congregation ever listened to any of my sermons Pastor knee bone spoke of how they were spending a great deal of time and effort studying and learning from critical race theory

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He and others started and they believe I was a Christian nationalist and that such a stance was unacceptable in the

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EFCA I'll just take a quick break here One thing you you have to understand and I I need to emphasize this point more and more is that that term

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Christian nationalism that? is being condemned so strongly by Members of evangelical

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Organizations is Yes, it's it's being appropriated by certain people for Protestants Reformed political thinking paleo conservative ends the on theonomic ends.

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It depends on the person who's appropriating it But that that that is a catch -all term that people in the world just throw at any

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Christian who thinks that they should be Vocal about their faith in public. I mean that that pretty much makes you a

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Christian nationalist in the minds of Of those people. So I think it's just you know, and here you see it being parroted by unfortunately evangelical leaders

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Needless to say I was astonished beyond measure. I could not even conceive a fellow EFCA pastors doing this to another

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EFC pastor So he so he was I think this a lot of pastors are like this just kind of Hit upside the head and and this is a pastor who my understanding has been an

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EFC a pastor for something like 40 years so this is someone who's been there for decades and they're and some of these guys are young younger than him,

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I'm sure and Which which is you know? It's not like they don't have legitimacy because they're young but you would think that there would be a respect in a seniority that they

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Wouldn't be aggressively going after someone like this in the first meeting Fast forward to September 2022

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John Nesbitt of the EFC a he's contacted me regarding the necessity of meeting with him and Apollo Freer or Frary I'm not sure how you say his name regarding my credentialing in advance of the

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BOMS meeting a few days later He apologized for so short a notice for the meeting admitted that he had put off this meeting

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Which he knew needed to be done I clear my schedule to be able to meet the time crunch that they were under I asked him for a list of questions

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That I would be asked in this meeting. He gave me the generalities. So He goes on and he said

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Apollo did not provide any questions though in the meeting He read from a list of 11 questions.

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He had regarding Christian nationalism. It would have been It would have met the biblical standards of justice to have given me these 11 questions in advance as he clearly

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Had a list he was reading from In this zoom meeting on September 13th,

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John said that the district office had received complaints about cornerstone That's the church. He pastors regarding its adherence to the church

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Constitution I asked for the names of those who had made the complaints both John and Paula refused to give those names

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Claiming it was not right to give me those names and John was uncertain if it was two or three people and would not clarify

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If it was men or women and stated he did not know if they were or were not members of cornerstone This refusal does not meet the biblical standards of justice so procedural procedurally this this whole thing is a mess and This is a common story that I get from many pastors and just members and leaders in various denominations and Christian organizations

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That this happens quite frequently That the even the rules sometimes agreed upon in their

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Constitution are not followed now he says that The accusations which

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John received he said were in the Constitution I suppose that means the Constitution of the EFCA if I'm not mistaken the specifics of those allegations

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I only know from the issues John raised regarding having one elder at this point in time and not holding a

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Congregational meeting in 2021. There are other accusations. I have not been made aware of them So he's saying, you know, as far as he knows,

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I suppose there's only one accusation Or two,

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I suppose okay So as to the second accusation our Constitution does not require that there be multiple elders It provides a process by which elders can be sought and nominated.

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Let's see here Okay Okay, Paulo launched into his question about Christian nationalism asked if he could give me a definition of the term

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Okay, so he goes into the specifics of this Paulo said my answers indicated I was a Christian national so they have this

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This list of you know What makes you a Christian national is probably like a Paul Miller thing or something and and then they they apply that and say well

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This makes you a Christian nationalist And And and that's a bad thing.

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That's a boogeyman You're you're a bad guy and this all started from the looks of things with his refusal to shut down the church

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During kovat. So that put him on the the list that put him on the unnoticed

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John sent a list of documents. He required to further answer the accusations against me. Let's see Again, he's not revealing some of the accusers

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I'm gonna skip ahead here Because this is very long if you want to see more of it and go to EFCA and socialjustice .wordpress

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.com If you're in the EFCA and I would recommend if you're in the EFCA read this whole thing At least if you are somewhat

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Involved in the EFCA. I think that's important Anyways, this this gets I guess This gets brought up.

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I'm trying to find the exact section here He has thorough detail, which is good

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You need thorough detail in situations like this because and recording things probably is also a plus in situations like this

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But This has gone to the National Board, so this is this is past the

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EFCA East and now the National Board and And he the claim here this is very similar to the

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SBC's problem the claim here is that in in bringing this to the National Board This is inverting the structure to form something more akin to the

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Episcopal denomination and not a congregational polity. So you have at now a

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National Board getting involved in this more local matter, but they are They and I think the

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EFCA is similar to the SBC and that they believe in the autonomy of local church So you have the National Board now Essentially Putting on notice a pastor and Threatening to remove his ordination because of this issue that started with not shutting his church down during COVID And so he responds he is

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Taking a stand. He says there is only one issue of not fulfilling our church's Constitution So as the church's

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Constitution I was wrong not the Constitution of the EFCA with the church's Constitution And that is that we were not able to hold a congregational meeting in 2021 due to the inability to obtain a quorum during The pandemic this is a time when the large number of churches had closed themselves to any and all

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In person worship the broad -brush smear that we are not in compliance is not accurate So there the accusation is that there they violated their own

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Constitution by I suppose shutting down and in the interesting thing about all of this is that This is a local church

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Constitution and you have a national board now Trying to impose but trying to apply the rules of the local fellowship and and police them now

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He says to suspend or otherwise remove my ordination would be a further to further violate the biblical standards of justice

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So so he is bringing it back to the Bible at every turn in this whole thing The the charges again here is what

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Greg Strand sent as the charges You willingly and knowingly failed to comply by providing the necessary information for the

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EFCA East District to determine Whether the leadership of the cornerstone EFC is following the church

32:26

Constitution and bylaws as accused It's a little bit technical there but That's the gist of it, so I'm not gonna spend more time on it

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But if people have questions about that, I would just suggest going to the website Let's see if anyone's weighing in on this who knows more

32:43

Craig Chambers says the real issue is the EFCA has bent left and conservative pastors are being dealt with falsely and and that's what

32:51

I And so in trouble says sounds like Ryan turnip see it again. Who's in the EFCA. I'm sorry the not the

32:57

EFCA in the Missouri Synod Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod so So this is something that's happening cross -denominational e the guns are only pointed in one direction, right?

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You have actual heretics actual false teachers actual problems, but they're not being addressed instead the guns are pointed at the more conservative members conservative pastors conservative churches and And this of course reflects the opinions of those who are in control on these denominations.

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They are their managerial elites who have an allegiance to the liberal order not to the oaths that they've taken or did

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I'm gonna just say it or Jesus Christ or to primarily or to the members of their churches and the pastors that they assist and so forth so this is the problem that's going on and there aren't easy solutions for it because You need men of character to be able to fill those roles and the question is

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Do those men of character exist? And if they do and I believe they do I I have to sit to think that there are men of character out there

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Then there may be less of them, but they I think they are out there But are they then disqualified at early stages from climbing those ladders to get into those positions?

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That's another problem in a major one So what what's the solution to that it's gonna be depend on where you are

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But on a macro level, I mean there isn't much of a solution I think for churches that have just gone this direction.

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I mean, I think it did the goose is cooked so to speak I mean you could you could try what they're doing the

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SPC, which is you know, let's let's rally every year Let's try to get a bigger group to come out. Let's out vote, but it hasn't been very successful so far and And and I I don't have any faith that it will be to be quite honest with you

34:54

There there's small successes you could point to perhaps but they're not going to be enough to turn the whole denomination around which is what you need

35:02

All right. Well, let's talk about the SPC here On that depressing note, right

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You could you could always start new organizations, right, but there's no structure that's going to foolproof Prevent this kind of corruption from happening

35:17

Care men of character you need virtue. You need a virtue So so train virtuous men lead virtue

35:25

Follow the lead of virtuous men There's not a whole lot of them. All right, so Bart Barber the president of the

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Southern Baptist Convention This is in the biblical recorder He has appointed members to a cooperation group

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Here's the story Addressing things we have never done before in the history of the Southern Baptist Convention will permeate discussions of those who will present a report next

35:48

June that could reassert or redefine what constitutes a church to be in friendly cooperation with the SPC These declarations that churches are not in friendly cooperation and these appeals in response to those

35:59

Declarations represent a change in the fundamental processes by which we cooperate with with one another he said Bart Barber The 20 member cooperation group came about from a motion in 2023

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That in New Orleans that place the group's formation in Bart Barber's hands Jared Wellum pastor of Tate Springs Baptist Church in Arlington, Texas will serve as the chair other members include and it goes through a list

36:21

And I recognize some of these names others. I don't Of course, Jonathan Lehman is there you have Juan Sanchez there who the funny thing is that Jonathan Lehman and Juan Sanchez are like the conservatives in this group

36:33

I'm pretty sure which which that if that's true That would that that definitely gives you an indication as to how probably slanted left this group is

36:42

Trevin wax gospel coalition guys in this group Richard land that's interesting

36:48

Richard land is in this group Donna Gaines, okay, the wife of Steve Gaines Who he's he's kind of woke.

36:57

Yeah, I'm willing to say that So so this is the group that that he's appointed

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It's people that Bart Barber thinks are good for this particular role. And if you remember the whole issue was it was sparked by the law amendment the

37:12

Mike law amendment to basically say that Churches that are not in friendly cooperation with the

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Southern Baptist Convention You know essentially, oh,

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I'm sorry, I'm not showing you guys the article hold on here's the article there you go biblical recorder That If a church has a woman pastor or women pastors

37:34

They are not in friendly cooperation because that contradicts Baptist faith and message and there have already been there's a precedent for this

37:41

They've already specifically identified abuse and racism as two things that churches can be kicked out of the denomination for and that's already taken place or disfellowshipped with and So now let's just add something that should be obvious to Southern Baptist well, now there's a problem right and you had a bunch of the former presidents of the

38:01

Southern Baptist Convention and going to the mics at the annual meeting and saying That we need to really study this issue of cooperation and what constitutes cooperation

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And so what this does effectively I said this at the time was that JD Greer is gonna get you to the same

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Position. I think Rick Warren gets you to in In so many steps, it won't be the one step that Rick Warren wanted to take

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Rick Warren rushed it Rick Warren Thought the SPC was probably more progressive than it actually is and he rushed it but JD Greer understands it better and What he proposed and others along with him was that There should be a study committee formed to look at these things

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To to and what can effectively happen is that study committee can actually come up with something that will make the law amendment

38:48

Obsolete so even if if a law amendments passed and it's confirmed at the next annual meeting This this other thing that's going on this study group can make suggestions to the

38:59

Southern Baptist at the next meeting and Change the way that cooperation is viewed so that potentially even having female pastors doesn't put you at odds with The convention that's how this kind of thing can work so I want to show you

39:16

Let's see who Well, let me play this video for you

39:22

This this is one of the members of this cooperation group Vaughn because I need to talk to something before I get out of the way and we're gonna we're gonna hear a message in a bit from Pastor Gary Smith and I am

39:35

So excited as I know you are my pastor and mentor who was a pastor here for 25 years bringing

39:40

God's Word I've already heard it once and I'm gonna have to hear it again because there's still work God's doing enemy through it It's gonna be an incredible message as God speaks to you as we go through Exodus But I want to tell you something that happened this past week

39:51

Pastor Gary and his wife Sandy and I were in New Orleans for the Southern Baptist Convention annual meeting with a team of people from the church and there were just a couple things that happened that That concerned me and I wanted to talk to you about so that you're aware of it

40:05

You're likely hearing some of this those of you who are more tuned to the news and the number one thing you're gonna hear about that concerns me it is the

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Disfellowshipping the removal of Saddleback Church in California from the Southern Baptist Convention and Because they have female pastors, you know,

40:24

I want to just say publicly that I am in disagreement with that decision. I voted against that decision

40:31

We we agree that this is not in the heart and tenor of the Southern Baptist Convention You may not know much about the

40:38

Southern Baptist Convention, but it's an incredible group of churches over 47 ,000 churches that come together with one common mission to take the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ to every place in this world

40:51

Right here in this city this country and to the ends of the earth planting churches sending missionaries Doing gospel work and the vast majority of the convention is thousands and thousands

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Literally millions of believers who love Jesus and want the vision of the gospel of Jesus Christ extended the ends of the earth to happen

41:08

But there's also confusion and I think that part of the beauty of the convention has been something called autonomy that the churches don't exist for the convention that can convention exists for the churches and The autonomy being independent of the way that we operate means that there can be a lot of diversity of opinion on Minor issues and we collaborate together and agree upon the major issues

41:30

The chief issue being our agreement to come under the Word of God the Bible as truth

41:36

Okay, let me play for you This is one more clip and the person you hear speaking there is the lead pastor at Fielder Church in Arlington, Texas Jason Parides Jason Parides and and here's another shorter clip

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Amendment that was voted upon to the bylaws of the Constitution That says that any church that has female pastors of any kind would be considered no longer in felony cooperation with the

42:03

Southern Baptist Convention Which means after a while it takes two years sequentially for that to be voted on and if it's ratified then churches that have female

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Pastors would be removed from the Southern Baptist Convention disfellowshipped Filtered Church falls into that category

42:17

We unwaveringly unequivocally Gratefully have female pastors in this church

42:28

Okay, well and they're they're clapping there's an ovation for Pastor Parides when he says that they have female pastors in the church.

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And so This is at least one member on this reconciliation committee.

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So It does raise a question about this is someone who is in clear violation of the

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Southern Baptist Convention's own stated beliefs at this point and I would say belligerently so and Yet this is someone that needs to be given a seat at the table to come up with the solution for How Southern Baptist should interact with each other in a cooperative manner?

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And specifically it's going to be on this question of female pastors So we know exactly what he thinks now, he's not the only person on this committee

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You know, I know someone like a Jonathan Lehman and a Juan Sanchez, which I said They're probably the more conservative which is funny to me because I was critiquing them for At least

43:31

Jonathan Lehman Juan Sanchez, I I know has put some woke stuff out there. He's a gospel coalition guy

43:36

I'm not sure if I've talked about him on the podcast, but you know, they were the kind of guys that we were

43:43

Opposing at least in our arguments back in 2020 and you know, I guess 2018 through 2021 2022 especially and And now they're on this issue, they're the conservatives

43:56

I'm sure of it I'm sure they're there that they're gonna be the more conservative ones on in a meeting like that and It doesn't give me a lot of confidence

44:05

I'll put it that way Hopefully they'll hold the line on this but there's going to be some kind of a muddled middle solution

44:12

Probably or some I don't know some kind of a compromise That's my guess that they're gonna try to reach and it's going to be

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Like I said, JD Greer is gonna get you there in multiple steps Whereas Rick Warren was gonna take one

44:24

JD Greer can can get you there in ten years You know, or maybe even five years and Rick Warren it would only have taken a year or two

44:31

That's that's just my opinion on it. So we've already been going about 45 minutes almost

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I don't think I'll show you the the Apple video Unless people really really want it.

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I'm gonna go just go to the questions and see What people are saying and if you have any questions, this is the time to get them in and I'll weigh in on whatever

44:51

You bring up Scott Crawford said the vote wasn't close.

44:57

Yeah, you're right about that. And that's one of the things people bring up to say Hey, look SBC is not going to endorse women pastors.

45:02

Look most of the people voted against or if they for the law amendments, right and And to that point

45:12

I say, you know, I think that would be I think you're right as far as the sentiments on the floor But the stage does control a lot and we know over time

45:21

People change their opinions at this point in the SBC, you know, the critical race theory fights not even a fight

45:26

You know why because it's just assumed and last year you saw that they had a resolution on I believe it was immigration

45:34

That assumed some I would say critical race theory adjacent ideas and there wasn't even hardly a resistance against it

45:41

It wasn't even on the agenda because there's bigger fish to fry now that we've moved past that conversation And so now we're in this new conversation about women pastors and that's how things work

45:54

T James Boone says, please don't show the Apple video. It's way too cringe. Yeah, it is pretty cringe. It's funny though That's why

46:00

I think it's funny, but it is cringy. Yes, you're right Any other comments questions, let's see

46:08

And you dismiss as the problem is they never give up until they wear down the people and they get their way

46:14

That's exactly the point. I'm making the next issue will be homosexual marriage members pastors and it may be other denominations are certainly splitting over that So All right.

46:26

Well, I appreciate everyone who joined the stream again If you are planning on coming to the conference, you better sign up like now

46:33

Overcoming evil conference comm it starts next week. I'm looking forward to seeing you there. We've got some great speakers great lineup great activities planned and I should be able to get you some podcasts next week

46:45

In fact, like I said, we I likely will be dealing more with some of this g3 stuff and and you can pray for me by the way on that because I want to do it in a gracious way, but also a firm way and a way that does not compromise on the things that are true and And Yeah, so I guess that's all

47:11

I have to say about that so that it's not the only thing we're gonna be talking about next week, but we will have to address it I think and And it's not fun it's not something

47:19

I want to do I'll be honest with you because my hope this whole entire time has been to try to work something out on that front

47:25

So anyway, god bless Scott says come to g3 with me

47:31

John. Yeah. Well, I I literally that that weekends the men's conference Scott I can't I can't I'm not hopefully they would let me in I would

47:38

I would think I heard that 80 Robles got disinvited from G3, I don't know if that's true or not I'll have to ask ad but but I saw some people saying that ad had said that he was disinvited from g3

47:48

So, I don't know. But anyway, I hope everyone is doing well out there God bless and more come and enjoy your weekend.