March 30, 2020 Show with Rev. Geoff Thomas on “Singing in the Church”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown, Carlisle, Pennsylvania. It's iron sharpens iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us. Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation To make one another wiser and better.

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Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and The rest of humanity living on the planet Earth. We're listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com. This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Monday on this 30th day of March 2020 you know the only thing better than having Reverend Jeff Thomas on iron sharpens iron radio is having him on two days in a row.

And we are going to be interviewing Reverend Thomas God willing today March 30th and tomorrow Tuesday March 31st. And I am so thrilled to have him back. He is one of my favorite guests of all time as well as one of my favorite preachers of all time he is Or should I say was the pastor at Alfred Place Baptist Church of Aberystwyth Wales For over half a century and he is well known to banner of truth supporters for being a prolific writer and wonderful conference speaker and He is going to be speaking today on the theme singing in the church and God willing tomorrow He is going to be speaking on the theme real evangelism, but it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron radio Reverend Jeff Thomas.

Well, I know you're well enough I know you and I know that you're an excellent guest and an excellent preacher and Why don't you? For the sake of our listeners who are discovering for your you for the first time.

Why don't you let our listeners know about Alfred Place Baptist Church in Aberystwyth Wales where you served as the undershepherd the pastor for Half a century and and now after your retirement your grandson is pastoring there.

Yeah, he was.

One of the pastors in Mississippi for a while correct. First Presbyterian in Jackson, Mississippi. Yes, I've interviewed him a number of times and always yeah I'm sure I always find it a joy. Oh if anybody wants to find out more about Alfred Place Baptist Church, especially if you live in the Aberystwyth Wales area.

Or if you're going to be vacationing there or you have family friends and loved ones there. I know that we have listeners not only in Wales Generally, but we do have listeners in Aberystwyth. So if you'd like to find out more about that church go to Alfred place church dot org dot UK.

Alfred place church dot org.

We have a big conference, you know every to be counseled and. So we all the family get together next year. It's going to be the second week of August as usual and. Wow, yes, and I'm sure every regenerate person does.

Who has the privilege of ever hearing him? He is absolutely extraordinary not only with his gifts behind the pulpit like you but also in His writing. Sometimes the two don't go hand in hand, but but with both with both you and Sinclair they definitely do.

Now believe me. I wouldn't have had you on two days in a row if I was only flattering you. Well, what do you also tell our listeners who may be unfamiliar with banner of truth something about that ministry since.

You have written for them and you also speak quite often at their conferences.

Yes, if I use the great biographer, man.

Well one thing that is good to know about banner of truth and another one of my favorite publishers Solid ground Christian books is that you know that whatever you buy from them. It will certainly be theologically sound and You're you're never going to Pick up something that is aberrant or anything like that.

And I know and unfortunately you can't say that necessarily about all reformed publishers Because there are men Who identify themselves as reformed today who have strayed into I think sometimes? aberrant and bizarre teaching but We thank God that there are still Faithful trustworthy men writing for a banner of truth and solid ground Christian books and Reformation heritage books and some other fine publishers.

Banner of truth org is the website for banner of truth for those of you who want to look up that information. Well the theme that you wanted to speak on for our first interview of our two-day Interview with you are two days worth of interviews.

I should say with you Is singing in the church. Singing in the church. Singing in the church is something that is not only beautiful and glorious and wonderful, but it's also something that sadly is a topic of Division of great division and even hostility in the body of Christ.

The churches is even split Over how and what one sings in the church? There's not to my knowledge any church that doesn't believe in the singing at all there There have been in the history of people who were opposed to singing Strangely even though it's a clear command in the New Testament.

But why did you want to pick this subject in particular? Why do you think that singing is?

So very important many of us Who perhaps have less? less than spectacular voices. When we're when we're in the worship service, sometimes we just mumble those hymns and songs quietly. Sometimes sometimes we're sitting Near someone that we wish was doing that.

Then of course you have those who are gifted Belting out these beautiful hymns and just adding to the whole atmosphere of the worship. But to those of our listeners. Who might think that singing is a more trivial matter?

And that would that would probably be a minority today because there are many churches in the modern age That dominate their worship services with singing and perhaps. Yep taps to and perhaps to an excess where They they leave far less time for the actual sermon the preaching of the word, but what why is this?

Such an important thing.

I did not realize.

Either of those things I guess there in Islam I'm assuming though there must be one person at least who sings at some point because you have those famous Recordings that we've all heard of of somebody chanting or singing in Arabic right over a microphone or a You know a loudspeaker.

I should say One text that is very interesting a lot of people might gloss over this and Not realize that there is something a little different in this text that refers to singing but I'm speaking of Ephesians 5 verse 19.

Most of the translations not all but most including the New American Standard Bible including the King James Version and the New King James Version and The Moat the New International Version. Most with with few exceptions render the wording of this as Speaking to one another Psalms hymns and spiritual songs singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord.

Speaking to one another it doesn't say although some of the translations say saying or singing but Most of them say speaking to one another is there something significant about saying it that way in that?

And also the thing that's interesting is that although we rightly View our worship as an audience as having an audience of one meaning God at the same time. While we are worshiping God, this says this text says that we are speaking to one another.

That's the ESV rendering of it.

If that's all We have to go to our first break Reverend Thomas.

And if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. C h r i s a r n z e n at gmail .com. Please as always give us at least your first name Your city and state and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA only remain anonymous. If your question involves a personal and private matter let's say if you disagree with your own pastor over something about singing and music in the church or perhaps you're even a pastor and you disagree with your fellow elders or Your congregation or your denomination over this subject.

In some way We would understand that you would want to remain anonymous but if it's a general question, please give us at least your first name city and state and country of Residence. And by the way, it is interesting before I go to the break that you were saying that when you visited Russia They had all this Elaborate equipment they were setting up when in Russia.

Where.

Russian Orthodoxy Dominates they have a strictly acapella. And it's interesting that the the modern church, I don't know if it's a Conscious rebellion against that or wonder but my question for you before we go to the break that you can answer when we return to the break is Could you please list some basic elements?

Even though our hymnody Is very diverse and should be in fact, even the Psalms are diverse. Can you give us some basic elements that every good song of praise to our Lord God Savior and King Jesus Christ should contain a minimal Number of basic elements that that should be present and you could answer that when we come back from our first break and don't go away.

We'll be right back with Reverend Jeff Thomas and singing in the church right after these messages from our sponsors. Chris Arnes and host of iron sharpens iron radio announcing a new website with an exciting offer from world magazine My trusted source for news from a Christian perspective.

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As you may remember Reverend Thomas I asked you what would be some basic elements that should exist.

In.

Every song of praise to Christ even though we have great diversity and should have great diversity in our singing. Because even the Psalms the God-breathed songbook in the Old Testament even those Psalms are very diverse.

So obviously our modern.

Hymns of praise should be no less diverse, but if you could tell us what the commonality should be amen. We have a question from Christopher and Suffolk County, Long Island, New York.

He asks have you ever heard of the Gadsby hymnal? That's G AD as in David SB. Why. I encountered it a number of years ago at a Bible conference and noticed that they began to adopt it and used it. For at least several years in a row.

I thoroughly enjoyed it and found the hymns rich with the the doctrines of sovereign grace. I was wondering if you are aware of this hymnal and if you appreciate it as much as I do this is obviously the hymnal by the 18th and 19th century English Baptist pastor William Gadsby.

Yes, that's right. Grace hymns as well. Yes, and you before mentioned grace hymns as well. That's the hymnal of grace but grace. Community Church in in California where John MacArthur serves as a pastor, right?

Right, yeah. Philip Webb who was a professional opera singer. Helped develop that hymnal.

And.

Well, thank you very much For that excellent question Christopher. You have a great name and I am also from originally from Suffolk County, Long Island New York keep listening to the program and keep spreading the word about it on Long Island and Everywhere else that you may happen to have contact.

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The coronavirus pandemic has rapidly changed our way of life bringing so many uncertainties. When will it end? Why do disasters like this happen? How do we deal with anxiety fear and the like. Well join us each Friday on the program iron sharpens iron with your host Chris Arnzen and Pastor Joe Jackowitz as they explore God's Word for answers to this and other of life's related issues.

Tune in at first love radio org. That's first love radio dot o-r-g. Each Friday at 1 p .m. Pacific 4 p .m. Eastern. That's iron sharpens iron on first love radio dot org. Fridays 1 p .m. Pacific 4 p .m Eastern to hear what the Bible has to say about pandemics and how we should respond.

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That's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio dot-com. As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations. A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshipped and how he shall be represented in the world. They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship God in spirit and truth.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a God-centered focus. Reading preaching and hearing the Word of God singing psalms hymns and spiritual songs. Baptism and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship performed with faith joy and sobriety.

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Solid ground Christian books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of preachers to heart. The mission of solid ground Christian books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future and To publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

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The.

Pastor emeritus of Alfred Place Baptist Church in Aberystwyth Wales where he served as the undershepherd for over half a century. Before we return to our discussion on Singing in the church. I just have a couple of announcements to make first of all until we hear otherwise.

As far as we know we are still going to be having the next spring iron sharpens iron radio pastors luncheon at The Bon Giorno Conference Center in Carlisle, Pennsylvania on Friday, May 29th 11 a .m. To 2 p .m.

And God willing we are still having as our guest speaker for the very first time. Dr. Conrad and Bayway Who is truly one of the most powerful preachers on the planet Earth? He is pastor of Kibwata Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, Africa.

He's also the former chancellor of African Christian University where he now is a lecturer. And you don't want to miss Hearing dr. M. Bayway preach even if you've heard him on sermon audio or other ways either through Tape the old-fashioned tapes or CDs or mp3s or on the Internet?