November 26, 2019 Show with Marty Machowski on “God Made Boys & Girls: Helping Children Understand the Gift of Gender”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions and now here's your host

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Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is

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Chris Arnzen your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 26th day of November 2019 and I'm thrilled to have a first -time guest today who is going to be discussing a vital issue.

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His name is Marty Machowski. He is family life pastor at Covenant Fellowship Church in Glen Mills, Pennsylvania where he has served on the pastoral staff for over 30 years and he's author of a children's book we are going to be discussing today,

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God Made Boys and Girls, Helping Children Understand the Gift of Gender and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Marty Machowski.

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Thanks for having me on your program Chris, it's an honor to be here. And before we have you give a summary of your own personal salvation testimony which is something that we have as a tradition here on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio whenever we interview a first -time guest we have that guest give a summary of the providential circumstances the

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Lord used in that individual's life to draw them to himself and save them.

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But before we do that why don't you tell our listeners about Covenant Fellowship Church in Glen Mills, Pennsylvania. Well Covenant Fellowship Church was established in 1984 and we met for a long time in a local community center until around 1999 we purchased land in Glen Mills and were able to build a facility.

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We have been here ever since preaching the gospel, making the gospel our primary message and we are blessed by God to have people come through our doors who are eager to hear that message.

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One of the things that God blessed us with in particular is a great program we call Bridge where we invite unbelievers in on Wednesday nights to simply understand the basic truth of Christianity and it has been amazing to see how many people coming from really difficult backgrounds and situations coming to know the

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Lord Jesus Christ through the ministry here at our church. Well praise God and folks you can look into this church later on but the website which

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I hope to repeat later on as well is covfell .org that's C -O -V -F -E -L .org

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obviously an abbreviation for Covenant Fellowship Church and we will

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God willing repeat that later on. So now is the time for you to give us a summary of the religious upbringing you had if any as a child, what kind of religious upbringing that was if any and the providential circumstances that our

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Lord raised up in your life to sovereignly draw you to himself and save you.

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Yeah I'd love to share that. I grew up Catholic in a Catholic family and we were very strict

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Catholics. Many Catholics today don't actually practice regular Catholicism but I was a strict

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Catholic, went to church every Sunday unless of course I was ill and yet I found myself searching not knowing what the purpose of my life was between my junior and senior year of college.

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I got a job working in my field for a summer internship down in Aberdeen, Maryland at the

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Aberdeen Proving Grounds and was living in a town called Havada Gray and one morning when

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I turned the TV on like I did every morning to eat my cornflakes before I went to work, I watched the news only this day.

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The only channel I got, my little black and white TV set, it was not the news, it was a televangelist and he went on to share the gospel and then at the end of his program like you might characteristically imagine, pointed his finger at the

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TV camera and said and those of you out there watching this by way of our broadcast,

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God is after you as well. And the thing that he explained to me that I hadn't known before, I knew that Jesus Christ died on the cross for sin but what

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I didn't know was that Jesus Christ died on the cross for my sin and that truth that God died for me specifically and that was what was going to set me free was something that just exploded in my mind.

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I watched that program every day throughout the crusade and somewhere in that week God saved me.

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I did go back after that summer internship to the Catholic Church. I didn't really know anything different but shortly thereafter

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God led me to Covenant Fellowship where I began just as a single guy in the congregation and then it was out of Covenant Fellowship that the

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Lord called me into ministry and I've been here as my only Christian church my whole life. Praise God.

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And it's always good to hear a good ending to a story that begins with a televangelist.

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Well you know, the Bible doesn't say televangelists are the power of God for the salvation of the world.

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They say the gospel is and when they preach the gospel things happen, right? Amen. Yes, and of course there are wonderful televangelists, biblically faithful televangelists and radio evangelists amidst the sea of heretics and charlatans so we cannot discount and should not discount them all or lump them all together because there are many wonderful men in the pulpit who have their services broadcast and their sermons broadcast such as one of my heroes of the faith,

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John MacArthur and I could go on and on and on with the list of wonderful men and being in the radio industry most of my adult life

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I am thankful to God that I enabled radio stations to continue on in their activities airing the sermons of such men as Dr.

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MacArthur and R .C. Sproul and Joel Beeky and many others. Before I have you begin on your description of this book, this very important book that we are addressing today,

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I want to read a couple of endorsements for this book and one of them is by my friend whom

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I have known since the 1990s and actually was personally involved in helping him launch his very first radio program back in the 90s,

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Dr. Joel Beeky, president of Puritan Reform Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

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He says, In our current day, children can easily become confused about all kinds of issues that are clearly presented in the scriptures, particularly if their home, church and school do not provide a consistent biblical foundation.

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Gender issues rank high on the list of areas that children can become untethered from the

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Bible's teaching. This beautiful book gently teaches children to cherish their

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God -given gender and to love their neighbor as themselves a timely word on a sensitive issue.

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Then we have Jim Daly, president of Focus on the Family, says, Are you watching the culture's rapid departure from biblical principles and wondering how to address these sensitive issues with your precious children?

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Marty Machowski has provided a timely resource to help you in that crucial task.

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His new book takes a gentle and scriptural look at what God's word tells us about his design for the two genders.

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This volume offers parents a terrific way to initiate important discussions with their kids.

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And of course the book that these men are raving about is the one that I mentioned in the beginning of the broadcast,

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God Made Boys and Girls, helping children understand the gift of gender.

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Now I am not really aware, I mean there could be other books out on this subject, but to my knowledge anyway, this is the first book that has come across my path that is tackling this very vital issue in the backdrop of the horrifying things that are going on in our culture where children are being told that they can actually choose the gender that they want to live by.

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But if you could tell us what was the catalyst that led you to writing this book and do you know of any other alternative books that are specifically addressing this?

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Well Chris, I don't know of any other books that address this issue for children and to help parents with their children.

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I know of some good books that address the topic for adults. I had recently a co -worker of mine say, you know,

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Marty you should write a book on gender. And I thought, well, you know, I know the issue is really severe,

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I don't know that I'm an expert in that field, but it got me looking and it got me thinking about children.

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And as I did a little research, I was just shocked at what

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I was reading. Came across one story in the news of a California teacher who in a kindergarten class had a little boy go back outside the classroom, change into a girl's outfit, and come back in and presented the little boy as a little girl to the class and instructed the class to begin calling him her.

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And this really upset the kids and they went home to their parents, some of them crying, saying,

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I don't want to be a boy, one little girl said to her mother. When parents became outraged over the incident and reported it to the school district, the school district sided with the teacher.

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The parents said, hey, you've got to give us warning if you're going to do sex education, it's California law. And they were told that, no, no, no, you're misunderstanding, this isn't sex education, this is identity education.

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To which the parents couldn't believe it. A year later that teacher was awarded

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Teacher of the Year Award. I just couldn't believe it when I read that story. That set me looking for books to see what was out there.

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I saw nothing and I thought, our parents need a book to teach their children that gender is

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God's good gift that can never change. And that's where I began my work to try to write one.

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Well, tell us about how this book is structured. For instance,

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I am hoping that I'm correct here that it does not even bring up the issue for children to discover unnecessarily that there are people teaching out there that you can choose any gender that you want.

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And obviously this is a subject that perhaps teenagers should hear from Christian Bible study teachers and pastors and parents because of the fact that it's saturated in the media everywhere we go, everywhere we look.

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But I'm assuming that you keep this controversy away from the minds of children in this book.

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Well, I absolutely do because I don't want to add to the confusion. I mean, children do not need to hear that some people would suggest that you could change your gender but that's not true.

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I mean, they don't even need that information. Children are not able to, at this stage, you know,

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I'm reaching kindergarten, first, second, third grade, they're not able to discern those complicated ideas.

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They're impressionable. They're like soft clay. You know, whatever puts its mark upon that clay, it remains.

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And so what I wanted to do is, well, what the FBI did to train its workers to recognize counterfeit bills, the first thing they did was not give them counterfeit bills and say, hey, look, these are counterfeit.

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They caused them to take hours and hours to study the genuine so that if they knew the genuine perfectly well, they would know the counterfeit when they saw it because it was not genuine.

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And so what I'm looking to do here is teach children the biblical truth that their gender is

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God's good gift that can never change. And I do that setting it up in a story because children love stories and children will never know anything about transgender going through the book.

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What they'll learn is the truth about gender from the story. Amen. And who, or should

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I say what age groups do you, have you intended this book to be read by their parents to?

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And if I butchered the grammar, please forgive me. Well, I'll tell you,

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I would say that it's written for like kindergarten through third grade.

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But I have my first grandson, Zion, is about 14 months old and he comes over our house at least once a week.

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My daughter lives locally and he absolutely loves the book and we are reading it to him all the time.

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Now, he doesn't understand at one and a half what, you know, God's good gift and gender and all of that, but he's coming to love the pictures and kids at that age just love for you to read to them.

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So there's no reason why you couldn't read it to children who are younger. But the key here is the moment, the moment he's old enough to understand what is written on these pages, because we're reading it as a routine in his life, he's going to be able to understand the truth on these pages.

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But it's geared for kindergarten through third grade. And give us some of your own thoughts as someone who has been involved in Christian leadership for many years, several decades.

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What is your understanding and your position on the rampant claims and reports, a growing number of reports, that children especially have what has been called gender dysphoria.

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They have made claims in the media that scientists are saying that this is a real thing that does not need coaching from parents or from secular society.

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These are things that would naturally develop in the minds and lives of children who have this disorder.

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It's not that their parents or relatives or society is coaching them and imputing these ideas into their minds, but that they are coming forth as if they are a natural progression of children who have some kind of a problem.

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Do you think that this is the case or do you think that this is basically sin becoming more rampant because these children are hearing these things discussed even by their parents and in the media, and perhaps their parents, they don't want to hurt their children's feelings.

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They don't want their children to feel bad if the kid happens to come out of the mother's closet and it's a boy and he's wearing his mother's clothing or something, wearing his mother's shoes, automatically the rush to a response to this is, oh, this child must be gender dysphoric and we have to make sure that they are happy and not traumatized by life.

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So we have to go by what they feel. And what is your opinion about this? Well, it's a complicated issue, but what

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I think is happening is when you celebrate the gay lifestyle as normal, the very next question to ask is, who am

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I sexually? And so that's coming up more and more.

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And then when you affirm the confusion of somebody who is left with that question, and even worse, when you begin teaching children that it's a choice, you're going to end up with a watershed, a cascade of confusion.

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And what I'd like to do is I'd like to separate out the children who are confused, who are really victims of a culture gone awry.

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I'd like to separate them out from the people who are actively pressing forward and pushing for this teaching in schools and doctors that are putting forth theories which are really underpinning the false teaching that you can pick a gender.

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You can select whichever one you want. And the kids, you know, imagine a child in kindergarten in a classroom where the teacher sends a boy back to get changed into a girl's outfit and comes back and says he's now a girl.

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You know, if one of those other children then who perhaps has a difficult home life begins to get confused in third grade,

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I have a lot of compassion for needing to try to understand what happened in that child's life.

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I don't have a lot of compassion for the teacher who is pushing forward these false ideals in the classroom.

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I think it's just plain wrong. And what I do to explain that, it doesn't surprise me, actually.

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If you look at Romans 1, you see when you exchange the truth of God for a lie, all kinds of aberrant behavior come out from that.

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That's the natural result of God giving you over when you reject him to worship the creation.

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And, you know, while these folks aren't necessarily setting up idols and altars in their living rooms, there's a sense in which they've rejected

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God. They've put their hope and faith in an evolutionary idea that says man is at the center of the world because everything was created by chance.

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So now it's really up to survival by the fittest and men are, you know, men and women are the fittest.

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And it's just a broken ideology that's so a part of our culture. Now, I cannot help but think that many of these parents who are encouraging their children on this hellish path, they know that this idea of gender dysphoria and everything that is attached to the so -called

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LGBTQ community, this is in vogue. It's even considered chic.

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And I can't help but think that there are parents that want to call attention to themselves as being heroes of this movement to legitimize gender dysphoria and to legitimize children even choosing their gender as if that were even possible, to perhaps even become celebrities of some kind, not even necessarily global or national celebrities, but celebrities in their community, how heroic they are for standing behind their children and subsequently their children being little heroes who are pursuing this very tragic direction.

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Do you think I'm making sense here? Yeah, I think you are. And I think that is happening. People who are progressive in their ideas want to showcase them very, very often,

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I think. But the challenge is for every one person that's trying to showcase this and supports these ideas being taught, there are a handful of other parents who are confused, too.

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They don't know what to do with their kid that just came home and said, Mom, I know I was born a boy.

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You called me Joe, but I'm changing my name to Jennifer and I'm now a girl.

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It's really tough on parents when that happens. And then there are the parents in between who aren't really sure what the right thing is.

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We've got a family in my neighborhood whose daughter is considering switching genders.

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And in this society, in this current culture and climate, the parent is thinking, well, what's the right thing to do?

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Let me support that pursuit. Let me support that exploration.

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And so whatever you decide, honey, that will be good with us. But really, they need truth in those situations.

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They need to know, no, it's not actually possible to change your gender. It's fixed and it is immovable biologically.

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We're going to give the listeners our email address so that they can respond with questions of their own.

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If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail dot com.

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail dot com.

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Please give us at least your first name, your city and state of residence and your country of residence.

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If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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And obviously I could readily see a discussion on this topic would lend itself to people having personal and private questions.

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Perhaps you yourself are experiencing a horrific trial in your family where either your own children or your grandchildren, your nephews, your nieces are going through confusion about what gender they truly should live by.

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And perhaps people are encouraging them to to sin by adopting the opposite gender as their own.

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Whatever the issue is that may be personal and private, we obviously understand that you would prefer to remain anonymous.

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So we will grant you that request if it is a personal and private question. But if it's a general question, please give us at least your first name, your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA. And tell us more about the book. I'm assuming since it's a book for children, young children, as you said, kindergarten through third grade, that it's illustrated.

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Perhaps you could even share with us a bit of information about the illustrator and so on. Yeah, it is an illustrated book and it tells a story.

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You know, I like to begin, particularly with young children, bringing them into truth through a story.

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And so you have children on the school playground at recess and a little girl named

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Maya loves to play football because she's a really fast runner and nobody can really catch her.

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And one of the boys is jealous and he shouts out and he says, if you keep playing with the boys, you will turn into a boy.

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And that upsets her. And she asked the teacher, Mr. Ramirez, is that true? Will I turn into a boy?

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And Mr. Ramirez replies, no, that's not true. Girls can't turn into boys.

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God made them girls for life. And then he corrects Lucas for saying an unkind thing.

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And then from there, Mr. Ramirez says, you know, we're going to go back into the classroom and I'm going to tell you about this issue.

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And he begins teaching children about gender. And he says gender is

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God's good gift. Man was created in the image of God and some were made by God to be boys and some were made to be girls.

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And that is fixed for life. Now, it's interesting that the illustrator for the book was glad to do the illustrations, but the illustrator refused to have their name put on the cover because of the controversial nature of this topic.

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So right as I was writing this book, I became aware that I was entering into some choppy waters.

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Wow, I was not expecting to have that answer come out of you. That's interesting.

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Well, we don't have that illustrator here, nor would the illustrator obviously want to be here.

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I'd be curious as to the faith, if any, of this illustrator and why this issue would make them fearful to not be involved in identifying themselves, perhaps just fear of the retaliation that is so common in our culture where those who support the

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LGBT community so -called, I do not use that phrase approvingly,

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I don't believe you can call a group of people who are involved in sin a community logically or appropriately.

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But it is quite sad to hear that. But it is a reality that people have lost careers and have even been physically threatened by those who support this satanic worldview of the

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LGBT so -called community. We are going to our first break right now.

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We do have a couple of listeners with questions and we will get to you as soon as we can. But if you'd like to join us on the air, as I said before, if you'd like to join us, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com,

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chrisarnson at gmail .com. And please, as always, give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA. And only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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So don't go away, God willing, we're going to be back with Marty Machowski and more of God Made Boys and Girls after these messages from our sponsors.

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Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona. Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnzen and the

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Iron Sharpens Iron podcast. I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity. He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key doctrines of the

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Christian faith. I've always been happy to point people to this podcast, knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet where folk won't be led astray.

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I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide. This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised

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Chris up for just such a time. And knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and in finances.

39:28

I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting

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Iron Sharpens Iron financially. Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

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I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would. All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com

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where you can click support. That's ironsharpensironradio .com. Iron Sharpens Iron Radio depends upon the financial support of fine

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Christian organizations to remain on the air, like the Historical Bible Society. The Historical Bible Society maintains a collection of Christian books, manuscripts, and Bibles of historical significance spanning nearly a thousand years.

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The mission of HBS is the preservation and public display of ancient scripture, dissemination of scripture, to provide tools equipping believers in Christian apologetics with evidence for the

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Since 2004, HBS has toured schools and churches throughout the Northeast United States, reaching thousands of believers and non -believers alike who are hungry for knowledge of the

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today. Thank you, Daniel P. Buttafuoco, attorney at law for your faithful support of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read.

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solid -ground -books .com. And always remember to tell them that you heard about solid -ground -books .com

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from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We are now back with our guest today, Marty Machowski, family life pastor at Covenant Fellowship Church in Glen Mills, Pennsylvania.

43:32

We are discussing his book, God Made Boys and Girls Helping Children Understand the

43:37

Gift of Gender. And we do have a listener with a question for you,

43:43

Marty. We have a Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina, a very loyal listener to this program and also a very generous financial supporter of this program.

43:54

Another great show, Chris, in your book, Marty, do you give advice on how to deal with authorities that insist there are more than two genders?

44:04

Also, how do we have conversations with teenagers already confused about their gender?

44:11

Well, great questions. I don't in the book talk about how to speak to authorities, but I can address that for a moment.

44:21

Um, you know, my experience is that parents who go to war against the authorities, let's say your school is beginning to teach these things and, and you're really upset and you go to war.

44:36

Um, you're very quickly labeled as part of the problem and you lose standing.

44:43

Uh, and what I told parents is it's better for you to, um, ask the school, if they can let you know when they're teaching some of these things, because you want to better be able to equip your own children.

44:57

If you're going to keep your kids in that school, that then becomes an opportunity for you when you know it's coming to prepare your children or even to decide,

45:06

I think my child's going to have a sick day that day. but, um, parents do have squared off against officials.

45:14

This is like the mainstream methods that the whole public school arena is supporting these days.

45:20

So you're really, um, it's like, uh, coming against the wave of the ocean, uh, right in their territory.

45:29

And that can be really challenging. But I do believe that you as a parent have the right to know what's being taught so that you can better walk with your own children through that instruction.

45:40

Grady, thank you for the two excellent questions. And make sure you give us your full mailing address so that Cumberland Valley Bible book service, cvbbs .com

45:50

and ship this book out to you at no cost to you or to our interpreters on radio. We not only want to thank cvbbs .com

45:57

for shipping out our winners, their free books, but we also obviously want to thank the folks at new growth press for providing us with these copies of Marty's book to begin with.

46:10

And, uh, just for your information, folks, you want to find out more about new growth press and all the titles that they have brought back in or brought into print,

46:18

I should say, uh, their website is new growth, press .com, new growth, press .com.

46:27

And, uh, before I go to a, uh, another question, Marty, uh, have you heard personally, uh, any negative feedback from writing this book?

46:40

And then also, obviously I want to hear about positive feedback other than of course the, the men whose wonderful commendations

46:48

I read, uh, who have raved about this book and endorsed it. But as far as your average readers and so on, well,

46:56

I, I have heard some negative reviews that have come, uh, predictably from more secular reviewers as far as the, the church community,

47:07

I've only heard good things. And if I could, I just want to jump back to the second question that your, uh, listener asked about.

47:16

What do you do with a team who's confused? They do want to answer that question and make sure I'm faithful to honor their, their questions.

47:24

Is that all right? If I ask? Oh, of course. Of course. Especially since the questioner was Grady and he actually donates to our program.

47:33

Well, good. We wouldn't want to upset Grady. So, so one of the things that I think is really, really important is drawing out the team.

47:45

we need to be careful that we're not fearful, uh, and just jump on a young person to tell them what they're thinking is wrong because there is usually some issues, some trauma even that can lead a person down that road.

48:04

For example, uh, you have somebody who might have, gifts and talent that might be, uh, stereotyped as the opposite gender.

48:19

So a young man has a great singing voice, but he's not great at sports.

48:24

Uh, he can be called a girl and you might not realize how over the years that, uh, bullying has, uh, affected him, has, has hurt him.

48:37

And so now he's beginning to doubt and you find out in talking with him that he doesn't have a strong father figure and, uh, that there are other issues in his life.

48:49

He, he deals with insecurity and often then when you find out what is really going on and you begin to prayerfully ask the question, how do

48:58

I address all of these issues? You know, it's presenting right now as a, as a gender dysphoric kind of a, an outcome.

49:06

But really far before you get there, there are very often other underlying issues.

49:13

And once you understand those issues, then it becomes actually easier to try to help that person biblically deal with that issue.

49:21

The issue is to recognize that his gift, in the case of the illustration that I gave a young boy who's a great singer, uh, and not good at sports, realize that those individual gifts and talents were given to him by God.

49:35

And he's to use them for God's glory. He shouldn't be defined by what other people think of.

49:42

Some of the greatest singers of all time were, were, Godly men were, were, you know, recording the

49:50

Bible. You got David, you know, what would, uh, people who are really wanting to make fun of young men with different gifts?

49:59

What did he said about David? He plays the harp. He sings, he writes songs. He's too young to go out and fight the, you know, the battle.

50:07

And then all of a sudden this little young boy who's, who's a singer, um, playing the harp for, uh, you know,

50:14

King Saul slays the giant with God's help. So, you know, I think we need to be careful, understand the situation before you just jump on and tell somebody they're wrong and they're thinking about gender while they are wrong.

50:28

You need to find out what's going on to lead them down that path. Amen. Um, let's see, we have an anonymous listener who says,

50:37

I want to word my question very carefully because I know I could be wrongly misunderstood very easily.

50:45

And I want to make sure that people don't get the wrong idea as to the motive of my question.

50:52

But I believe that there is a positive element to children growing up in an atmosphere where abnormal or dangerous or ungodly behavior is frowned upon by fellow classmates and children in the neighborhood.

51:10

We would never want these children to bully the ones adopting ideas like gender dysphoria.

51:18

We would not ever want cruelty to be thrust upon them. But at the same time,

51:24

I think this attitude against bullying has gone too far. Whereas even children growing up today, when you discuss things like homosexuality with them, they think these things are completely fine because of this day and age of political correctness that we live in.

51:41

You are hard pressed to find a child outside of Christendom or a conservative religion where these things are viewed upon as being abnormal, unnatural, dangerous.

51:53

And do you not think that this kind of attitude should be cultivated that children are not to be accepting with open arms their friends when they demonstrate that they have embraced things like gender dysphoria, transvestism, and all other kinds of things that are an abomination to God?

52:18

Well, I certainly would not want to teach my children that you want to affirm those kids and all of their challenges.

52:28

But when Jesus presented truth, he did it very cleverly.

52:35

He did it with compassion. He did it with kindness. And where we see sin, the

52:41

Bible says that we who are spiritual should correct with gentleness.

52:46

And so I do think there is an appropriate place to correct. When I was a young kid growing up,

52:52

I actually had an example of this in my life. I had a friend come up to me and he said, he said to me,

52:59

Marty, he said, you're running like a girl. You're flailing. Seriously.

53:07

And he said, let me show you what you're doing. And I really wasn't the most athletic of guys.

53:14

And you know, he showed me what I was doing wrong. And I, I said, you know, thank you,

53:20

Greg. And I, and I changed the way that I ran and it was actually more effective to run. I was probably five, six years old.

53:28

And here's the kid from the neighborhood. He pulled me aside, privately say, Hey dude, you're running like a girl.

53:34

Straighten this out. So yeah. Hey, you know,

53:40

I celebrate godly, loving correction. you know, for, if you're a teen out there listening or you're a parent, you have a team who has a friend who thinks that they should be the opposite gender, then help your son or daughter teach them the truth.

53:58

But the way to do that is obviously not through bullying or demeaning.

54:03

It's to pull them aside one -on -one and say, Hey look, I know that you think you're supposed to be a boy, but the truth is your biology can never change.

54:12

What people are telling you is a lie. And you know, Chris, there's, here's an area that it just makes it so obvious.

54:18

You know, our culture is saying, no, it's wrong to correct somebody about gender.

54:24

You've got to, what they feel is right. But, but what do we do when we come up with someone who's anorexic?

54:30

In fact, let, let's pick up right where you left off because unfortunately we have to go to our midway break and, and just don't forget about where you left off about anorexic.

54:38

And this is our longer than normal break because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

54:44

FM in Lake City, Florida requires of us a longer break in the middle of our show because they are required by the

54:49

FCC to air their own public service announcements and other things that localize

54:55

Iron Trip and Zion Radio to Lake City, Florida. So please be patient with us as we take this longer break. And we also ask you to use this time wisely, write down the information provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently patronize them because that will further ensure that they remain our advertisers and we need their advertising dollars to remain on the air.

55:14

But also write down questions for our guest, Marty Machowski at Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

55:20

and don't go away. We're going to be right back after these messages from our sponsors. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the

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New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the

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NASB. I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, president and professor of systematic and homiletical theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylor, South Carolina and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Chuck White at the

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First Trinity Lupern Church in Tonawanda, New York and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

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I'm Pastor Anthony Mathenia of Christ Church in Radford, Virginia and the NASB is my

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Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Jesse Miller of Damascus Road Christian Church in Gardnerville, Nevada and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Bruce Bennett of Word of Truth Church in Farmerville, Long Island, New York and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Rodney Brown of Metro Bible Church in South Lake, Texas and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. I'm Pastor Jim Harrison of Red Mills Baptist Church in Mayapac Falls, New York and the

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NASB is my Bible of choice. Here's a great way for your church to help keep

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air. Pastors, are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?

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to place your order. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

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If you've watched my dividing line webcast often enough, you know, I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.

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And besides that, they feel so good. I'm so delighted. I discovered Post Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding.

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No radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently, but I'll give it a shot. Jeffrey Rice of Post Tenebrous Lux is a remarkably gifted craftsman and artisan.

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That's ptlbiblerebinding .com. As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

59:10

The church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey pastored by Alan Dunn.

59:19

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he shall be represented in the world.

59:27

They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

59:33

God in spirit and truth. Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a

59:38

God -centered focus. Reading, preaching, and hearing the word of God, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, baptism and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship performed with faith, joy, and sobriety.

59:53

Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at gcbcnj .squarespace

01:00:02

.com. That's gcbcnj .squarespace .com

01:00:09

or call them at 908 -996 -7654. That's 908 -996 -7654.

01:00:18

Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions, coffee shops, and local hangouts,

01:00:45

Long Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young people who need Jesus. We are rural and urban and we are always about the message of Jesus.

01:00:54

Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong journey of following Christ.

01:01:02

Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959. We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in need all over the country and around the world.

01:01:16

Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future. Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

01:01:23

For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385 -8333.

01:01:30

That's 631 -385 -8333 or visit liyfc .org.

01:01:39

That's liyfc .org. I'm so grateful to our sovereign

01:01:52

God that while manning an exhibitors booth for Iron Sharpens Iron, a major Bible conference, I providentially met

01:01:58

Pastor Andrew Smith of Christ Reformed Community Church just south of Jacksonville, Florida, right off I -95 in St.

01:02:06

John's County. Andrew is certainly the kind of pastor that is a perfect match for my radio show and has already proven to be an ideal guest.

01:02:15

Christ Reformed Community Church shares my conviction that God is both creator and sustainer of the universe.

01:02:22

He rules and reigns providentially over our lives. He directs not only the historical events of the world, but also the personal events of individuals.

01:02:32

I agree with Christ Reformed Community Church that the very purpose of the church is to make disciples, that we are tasked with the responsibility to evangelize locally, nationally, and globally, and that we are to equip the saints for the work of service.

01:02:47

Unlike the man -centered seeker sensitive movement, they do not gauge the success of biblical discipleship by how many people are in the church, but by the faithful ministry of God's word and gospel.

01:02:59

For more details on Christ Reformed Community Church, visit christreformedcc .com.

01:03:05

That's christreformedcc .com or call 904 -955 -9881.

01:03:14

That's 904 -955 -9881. Tell Pastor Andrew that you heard about them on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

01:03:22

I'm Pastor Andrew Smith and I'd like to urge you to consider joining Christ Reformed Community Church of St.

01:03:29

John's Florida in financially supporting Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio. I'm Dr.

01:03:39

Gary Kimbrough, Pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi. God tells us in James 127 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit to fatherless and widows and their affliction.

01:03:48

In the providence of God three years ago, I discovered a poor small church outside Lusaka, Zambia in a township called

01:03:54

Cabanana who are taking care of 24 orphans. I found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding.

01:04:00

What was I to do? Could I just say, God bless you and walk away? The situation of the children set heavily upon me as I was praying concerning this need.

01:04:07

It came to me, I trust from the Lord to tell the orphans plight to a broader audience. The entire need for their clothing, food, education, and some medical services is $73 per month per child.

01:04:17

If just 50 of us would give $35 a month, we could meet the need. Bethlehem Baptist Church will pay the fee to get the funds there.

01:04:24

So if you give a dollar, a dollar, we'll get to the orphans. In this season of hope and giving, will you consider giving hope to 24 orphans?

01:04:31

Please send your gift of any amount to Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838, Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi, 39443, or donate through our website, bbclaurel .com.

01:04:42

Again, the address is Bethlehem Baptist Church, 838, Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi, 39443, or bbclaurel .com.

01:04:52

Thank you. Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here.

01:05:00

I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years. His name is Dan Buttafuoco.

01:05:06

Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer, but not the type that typically comes to mind.

01:05:12

Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself. Recently he wrote a book titled

01:05:17

Consider the Evidence for the Bible. Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword.

01:05:23

Dan also has a master's degree in theology. Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states.

01:05:31

He represents many Christians in serious injury matters all over the country. Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer.

01:05:38

He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy, and currently his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for $1 million or more and in approximately 10 different states.

01:05:52

In Illinois, his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history. In New York, his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the law journal.

01:06:03

If you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state, I recommend that you call

01:06:09

Dan. Consultations are free. There is no fee unless you win. Dan Badafuco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878.

01:06:20

1 -800 -669 -4878 or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:06:29

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries and my friend

01:06:48

Chris Arnson and I are excited to be attending another G3 conference together in Atlanta, Georgia, Thursday, January 16th through Saturday, January 18th on a theme that is vitally important to all of us.

01:07:00

Worship matters. I'll be on the speaking lineup with Eric Thomas, Joel Beakey, Paul Washer, Steve Lawson, Phil Johnson, Tom Askel, Votie Balcom, and the world renowned preacher, teacher and author

01:07:11

John MacArthur. A fascinating new addition to the roster is Kosti Hinn, nephew of the notorious false teacher

01:07:18

Benny Hinn. Kosti has repented of the word faith heresies of his youth and is now a reformed

01:07:24

Baptist pastor and cessationist in California. Come join me and Chris Arnson at G3 2020,

01:07:30

January 16th through the 18th in Atlanta by registering at g3conference .com

01:07:35

that's g3conference .com. See you there. Welcome back.

01:07:41

This is Chris Arnson. If you just tuned us in, our guest for the two hours today with a little less than an hour to go is

01:07:48

Marty Machowski, pastor. I'm sorry, family life pastor. I'm at Covenant Fellowship Church in Glen Mills, Pennsylvania, and we are discussing his book,

01:07:58

God Made Boys and Girls, Helping Children Understand the Gift of Gender. If you have a question for Marty, send it in via email at chrisarnson at gmail .com,

01:08:09

chrisarnson at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. And as always, please give us at least your first name, your city and state of residence and your country of residence.

01:08:18

If you live outside the USA, only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

01:08:24

Before I return to our discussion with Marty, I just have a couple of announcements to make. First of all, the

01:08:30

Foundations Conference in New York City that you've been hearing me promote for quite a while, that is sold out.

01:08:38

There is no more room to attend that conference. So if you want to just check up, if there are any cancellations, the website is thefoundationsconference .com,

01:08:51

thefoundationsconference .com. That conference is being held Thursday and Friday, December 19th and 20th in Manhattan.

01:08:58

And so check up if you wish to see if there are any future cancellations because they are packed.

01:09:05

The next event that I am going to be attending, God willing, which always has my heart beating with joy because I am just absolutely always blown away at the

01:09:19

G3 Conference where I have manned an exhibitors booth for Iron Trip and Zion Radio already for three years.

01:09:25

And this January will be my fourth year in a row manning an exhibitors booth at the

01:09:31

G3 Conference, which stands for Gospel, Grace and Glory. This is held every year at the

01:09:37

Georgia International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia, which is a suburb of Atlanta, right near the

01:09:46

Atlanta airport. The conference center is actually connected by rail to the

01:09:53

Atlanta airport. So it's very easy to get to from there if you fly in. This is just a remarkable conference.

01:10:01

It is a monumental event. I don't know of any conference that has a roster of speakers this long and this superb.

01:10:12

And I highly urge you if you've never been, please attend the

01:10:17

G3 Conference. This January, the theme is Worship Matters.

01:10:23

And the speakers include my friend Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, my friend

01:10:30

Phil Johnson, the Executive Director of John MacArthur's Media Ministry. Grace to you. Phil Johnson also has the dubious reputation of being the most frequently interviewed guest in the history of Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

01:10:42

Dr. Stephen J. Lawson, founder of One Passion Ministries, certainly one of the most extraordinary preachers alive on the planet earth.

01:10:51

My friend Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio will be speaking. Derek Thomas, a beloved name, especially amongst

01:11:00

Reform Christians, one of the finest exegetes and preachers and teachers and authors that we have in existence today.

01:11:11

My friend Dr. Tom Askell, who is the Executive Director of Founders Ministries, the

01:11:16

Calvinistic ministry within the Southern Baptist Convention. Dr. Stephen J.

01:11:21

Nichols, who is the President of Reformation Bible College, the college founded by the late R .C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries.

01:11:27

Kosti Hinn, who you just heard recently, James White mentioned in an ad for this conference.

01:11:33

Kosti Hinn, who is the nephew of the notorious heretic and charlatan Benny Hinn.

01:11:39

And Kosti does not mind me saying that because he says just as much and more seeking to expose the word of faith movement for the deadly, dangerous, deceptive and damning movement that it is.

01:11:54

He has repented of this movement. He is a cessationist and a Reform Baptist pastor. And there was an update after James White recorded that ad.

01:12:03

He's now pastoring in Arizona. He left the church in California after receiving a call to Arizona to pastor there.

01:12:12

And of course, there are many more on this roster, but the most recent addition is

01:12:17

John MacArthur. And I would go to this conference if it was only John MacArthur preaching at the G3 conference.

01:12:23

If you want to join me there Thursday, January 16th through Saturday, January 18th, go to g3conference .com,

01:12:29

g3conference .com. I also urge you if you are a business owner or a parachurch leader, or you want to promote something to the body of Christ to people in large numbers that you are involved in, well,

01:12:42

I would strongly urge you not only to register for attendance at the

01:12:47

G3 conference, but register for an exhibitor's booth just like I will be manning. And it has always proven to be a phenomenal experience for me manning an exhibitor's booth there.

01:13:00

They typically have over 5 ,000 people attend this conference. And with John MacArthur added to the lineup,

01:13:06

I strongly believe, I am very confident, they will have over 6 ,000 people. So I am really looking forward to manning my exhibitor's booth for the fourth year in a row there.

01:13:15

If you want to join me there, either in attendance or also manning an exhibitor's booth, go to g3conference .com,

01:13:22

g3conference .com, and please tell the folks at the G3 conference that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:13:32

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01:13:59

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01:16:13

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01:16:28

And also remember folks, if you are not a member of a local bible -believing church, and you're not even prayerfully looking for one, you're living in rebellion against God.

01:16:38

Please, rectify that situation. If you need help finding a church, I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world, and I can help you find a church,

01:16:50

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01:16:56

and put I need a church in the subject line. I've already helped quite a number of people in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience find churches all over the world where they have visited and joined and become members, or where they have visited while they are on vacation in that area of the world, or where they have referred these churches to their loved ones who do not have a solid church home.

01:17:17

So I perhaps, possibly, God willing, can help you too, because I do have a very exhaustive list, or at least a very extremely large list,

01:17:25

I should say, of churches all over the world that are biblically faithful. So send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com

01:17:31

and put I need a church in the subject line. Now, it's also that email address where you can send in a question to our guest,

01:17:38

Marty Machowski, on his book, God Made Boys and Girls, Helping Children Understand the

01:17:43

Gift of Gender. That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com, chrisarnsen at gmail .com. And Marty, before the break, you were mentioning children who are anorexic or bulimic, if you could continue that thread of thought.

01:17:57

Yeah, I'd love to, Chris. People, when it comes to gender dysphoria, are reluctant, and I actually would say that it's harmful if you tell the children who are struggling with their identity, their gender identity, that they're wrong to think they could be gender different than the one

01:18:19

God gave them at birth. And yet, we know that if somebody is struggling with anorexia, let's say you have a 15 -year -old girl who is about 5 '5", and she currently weighs 80 pounds, very thin, sickly thin, but she believes that she's fat.

01:18:43

We know that we shouldn't tell her, oh, yeah, you can lose more weight.

01:18:49

You want to be thinner than you are? Oh, yeah, go ahead. You believe you're fat? Well, then you must be fat.

01:18:55

No, we wouldn't say that. I mean, it would be unkind. We tell her, you are fine. You're too thin.

01:19:02

You do not need to lose any more weight. You're going to hurt yourself. You're going to damage your body.

01:19:10

Your body needs the nutrition that's provided with three balanced meals a day.

01:19:16

If somebody believes, they really believe they should end their life, they should go commit suicide, that life is no longer worth living, we don't say, oh, well, you've got that feeling.

01:19:29

Well, you better follow that feeling, because it must be true. Of course not. That would be unkind and unjust.

01:19:35

We say, your life is worth living. You shouldn't kill yourself.

01:19:40

We're easy to say to those two groups who have a mental confusion, right?

01:19:47

That's what they are, mental confusion. One person thinks they're fat when they're not. One person thinks life is not worth living when it is worth living.

01:19:56

They're wrong. It's okay for us to tell them that they're wrong. Similarly, I would suggest that it is okay to tell a person, let's say if it's a boy who feels like they should be a girl, or a girl who feels like they should be a boy, that they're wrong, that God didn't make a mistake.

01:20:13

Their gender is his good gift. Praise God. One of the things that disturbs me about this whole subject of gender dysphoria and the

01:20:27

LGBT worldview is that I think it's inescapable to come to the conclusion, if you're being honest about this, that there are multitudes of very selfish and evil people who are using children as guinea pigs because they don't even really know what the future outcome is going to be, the long -term outcome.

01:20:56

In fact, in many cases, we already know because there have been horrible news reports about people, and you usually only hear about these news reports in conservative media, that have committed suicide because they regret having a so -called sex change operation.

01:21:14

And another thing that a lot of people seem to never mention, even in conservative media,

01:21:19

I don't hear anybody on Fox News saying this, but if you are telling children, young children, even prepubescent children, that they can make a decision like what gender they want to live as, that would result in them getting medication, hormone therapy, and even surgery, if you're giving that weight to the thought process of a child, what is right around the corner other than legalizing pedophilia?

01:21:53

Because if a child says that they want to have sexual relations with an adult, well, isn't that just around the corner if you're saying that a child's decisions have that much weight?

01:22:06

The next thing, I can't help but think that the next thing around the corner is, well, we should give them freedom of choice about with whom they have sexual relations.

01:22:15

Am I going too far here in my presumption? Well, it's a scary thought for sure, and I'm sure there's some of the listener audience going, well, what are you talking about?

01:22:26

But think of the logical implications, right? If children's feelings are more important than truth, so a boy who believes that he's actually a girl, that's more important than the biological markers coated into every cell of his body.

01:22:45

Feelings trump truth. If that's your philosophy, then how can you say it's consistent to tell a 12 -year -old girl who wants to marry a guy and have sexual relations with him who's 30 years old, how can you tell her that her feelings are wrong, right?

01:23:06

So it's what you're talking about is consistent logic, and if their logic stays consistent and goes down that sinful path, it leads to all manner of evil and sin and a disregard for God's command.

01:23:24

And quite frankly, I think that that's where we're headed. We have another anonymous listener.

01:23:32

And by the way, I believe I forgot to tell our last anonymous listener, if you send us your full name and mailing address, you've also won a free copy of the book we are discussing today,

01:23:45

God Made Boys and Girls by Marty Machowski. And of course, we're not going to reveal your identity on the air when you send us your full name and mailing address, so don't worry about that.

01:23:56

And so please send that to us so that cvbbs .com, Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, can ship this book out to you.

01:24:04

And once again, we not only thank cvbbs .com for shipping out these books for free, but we thank our friends at New Growth Press for providing us with these free books to begin with that we are able to ship out to our listeners in limited number who submit questions.

01:24:25

So we have another anonymous listener who asks, how alarmed should parents be when they see their little children dressing up in the clothing of the opposite gender?

01:24:40

I'm speaking about little tiny children, prepubescent children, not teenagers who are intentionally trying to look like the opposite sex.

01:24:49

I'm talking about exploration who the children are involved in that involves often humor, and they think it's funny.

01:24:58

And how and when do we start to take this more seriously? And what should we do even when we see a tiny child walking out of mommy's room with mommy's shoes on and perhaps another article of clothing when it is a boy doing this?

01:25:16

That's a great question. I think that to answer the how alarmed should we be,

01:25:23

I would say we shouldn't be alarmed. Kids don't know what's right and what's wrong.

01:25:30

They don't come up from the womb having a well -planned -out understanding of morality.

01:25:37

Even the Apostle Paul said that he would not have known what coveting was if the

01:25:42

Word of God did not tell him, do not covet. So it's the Word of God and God's direction through the

01:25:49

Word that teaches us right from wrong and teaches us what is good and bad. So young children don't instinctively know that.

01:25:59

So you have a young boy, he thinks it's so cool to have high heels. So he sees mom's high heels and he gets in her high heels and he thinks, hey, while I'm at it, let me just put on, you know, mommy's shirt that's sitting there with the flowers on it.

01:26:13

So he puts mommy's shirt on, he gets the high heels and he comes walking down the hallway in these high heels thinking that he is just the coolest thing since, you know,

01:26:23

Elvis hit the stage. And what do you do? Should you be alarmed? No, he's a child doing childish things.

01:26:32

And I think that it actually serves, it's a disservice to make a big deal out of it.

01:26:38

What I would say is, don't make a big deal out of it, but say to yourself, okay, future discipleship opportunity.

01:26:45

After everybody has their laugh, the child, put mommy's shoes away just like you would tell your daughter if she came out in those same things.

01:26:53

Then you pull them aside and say, hey, let me tell you something. Did you know that God made boys and God made girls and they are different?

01:27:03

God made boys to become daddies and God made girls to become mommies and guess which one you are?

01:27:11

And then he's going to answer logically out of what his observation is. God made me or I'm a boy.

01:27:20

Absolutely right. And you affirm that in them. So there's a way to teach the truth and not make a big deal out of the confusion.

01:27:28

And studies show that when there is some greater gender confusion in a young child, that the vast majority of those children completely grow out of that confusion.

01:27:41

And I'm talking about not confusion that comes from wrong teaching, but confusion that comes simply out of them trying to find their way in life.

01:27:51

Now, do you think it's appropriate for a parent to not overly, not in an overly harsh manner, to scare the child, to even draw attention to the child, something that they might not be thinking about at all when they come out of mommy's room, the boy comes out of mommy's room with a, you know, even wearing a dress or something?

01:28:21

Do you think it's wise that a parent should at least say in a very gentle and calm way, do you know that in the

01:28:30

Bible, in Deuteronomy 22 verse 5, it says a man's item shall not be on a woman and a man shall not wear a woman's garment.

01:28:42

Do you know that that is something that the Bible teaches we shouldn't do? I mean, would that be correct, do you think, even with a young child?

01:28:49

I think if they're being serious, that that's an appropriate thing to say in the moment.

01:28:59

And I would say that one of the things I like to do is use a verse like that in a discipleship moment afterward.

01:29:09

You know, and I think it's also good to say, all right, all right, take those off, boys don't wear girls' things.

01:29:16

Come on, Bob, you know better than that. You ever see daddy walking around in mommy's high heels and a dress?

01:29:26

Let's hope not. Well, if he has, and he answers, oh yeah, all the time, you got a bigger problem.

01:29:38

That's beyond the scope of my book, I'll tell you that. So I think it's okay.

01:29:45

What I want our listeners to know is there's no need to panic, it's just a discipleship opportunity.

01:29:54

Great. And let's see, we have Bobby in Hartsdale, New York, and Bobby says, should

01:30:04

Christian parents allow their children to play with other children that their parents allow to dress up like the opposite gender and are convincing their children that being the opposite gender they were born with is completely acceptable?

01:30:26

Well, there's no one right answer to that. What I would say is

01:30:32

I would avoid the extremes on both sides. So I would say it would not be wise to say parents should always let their children play with a child in gender transition supported by their parents, and I would also say that it's not wise to say parents should never allow their children to play with or hang out with children who are in gender transition.

01:31:01

And the first one, you know, might seem obvious. The second one,

01:31:06

I'll address that a little bit. I have a, now just turned this week, 17 -year -old daughter who loves the

01:31:15

Lord, is a very, has a very strong and solid testimony, and is not easily persuaded by what people think or what people do.

01:31:28

And I knew that she was going to a gathering where there were going to be, from our local high school, some kids who were in gender transition.

01:31:41

Now, should I not allow my daughter to go? I talked to her about it, and she went to that with the idea of trying to see if the

01:31:49

Lord would provide an opportunity for her to encourage them. And not necessarily to correct them, but to encourage them.

01:31:58

She, you know, and so I thought, all right, I have a daughter here who I'm confident in her testimony, in her ability to discern the culture, wanting to reach out to someone who's confused.

01:32:10

That's a good thing. And so I think we want to be discerning about our youngest children. I don't know that I would have my youngest children playing with other children whose parents are supporting gender transition in grade school, for example,

01:32:27

I just think would be very confusing for my kids. But I just want to have us avoid those absolutes.

01:32:34

And Bobby, you've won a free copy of the book we're discussing, God Made Boys and Girls. Make sure you send us your full mailing address so that cvbbs .com

01:32:43

can ship that out to you. And we want to thank New Growth Press once again for providing copies, a limited number of copies of this book, for questioners.

01:32:54

We have Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania.

01:33:01

And Harrison says, one of the sad things about this whole cross -dressing topic is that it is really a universal reality right now that girls very often are dressing like boys.

01:33:21

I am not one of those hard -line fundamentalists who say that women should never wear slacks that are feminine and that women should always wear dresses.

01:33:31

But isn't this a subject that just seems to have totally slipped by us and has now become an established reality where your typical girl will be wearing the clothing of boys and nobody seems to make any kind of noise about it, even within conservative evangelicalism?

01:33:54

Well, I think that the observation that women are dressing like men is an accurate one, certainly not universally, but there are a lot more women who, if you catch them from the right view, you'd say, oh, that's a guy for certain.

01:34:13

I'm not sure that that's coming so much out of sexuality other than wanting, you know, it's back to the pronouncement of the curse, you know, the desire of the woman will be for the position of the man.

01:34:34

I think that has something to do with it as well. One of the things that my wife and I did was we wanted to affirm our girls' femininity at a very young age, and so we made sure that we talked about feminine beauty in an appropriate way.

01:34:57

They were to dress to please Daddy and what Daddy likes, and I would compliment them when they wore the things that I liked.

01:35:05

So when it came to particularly going to church on Sundays, we had our young girls wear dresses, and I would talk about what a beautiful dress you have on, and they just love, they learn to love dressing to please their father, and today, even still, my daughters will come to me and they'll ask me about an outfit and say, what do you think about this,

01:35:29

Dad? What's your opinion on this one? And I'll give it to them. I would say that starts when your kids are really, really young.

01:35:38

It's really tough. The proverb goes to reshape an oak tree of 40 years, but a sapling can be molded with ease.

01:35:49

Excellent answer, and you have also won a free copy of the book we are describing and talking about.

01:35:59

So Harrison, make sure we have your full mailing address in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania so that cbbbs .com

01:36:05

can ship this out to you. We have, let's see,

01:36:12

John in Bangor, Maine wants to know, other than your book that is a child's book, can you recommend books specifically for parents and adults that tackle this issue?

01:36:26

Yeah, I would say, if you want to get a copy of God and the

01:36:35

Transgender Debate, that's by Andrew T.

01:36:40

Walker, and that would be a good book for you to read and help you to understand this issue.

01:36:52

So I would recommend that one for you. There are some books out there,

01:36:59

I just say you've got to be careful because they may not be that great.

01:37:06

So the God and the Transgender Debate book has a foreword by Al Mohler, and so you can pretty much guarantee that if Al Mohler is going to put his stamp of approval on it, it's going to have a biblical, cultural worldview.

01:37:23

So that's the one I would recommend. Great, and who is the publisher of this book?

01:37:33

The Good Book Company. Okay, and the author? The author is

01:37:39

Andrew T. Walker, God and the Transgender Debate. Great, well folks, you could look that up on Google and so on.

01:37:47

And thank you very much for that excellent question, John in Bangor, Maine, and make sure we have your full mailing address.

01:37:54

We're going to our final break right now. It's going to be a lot more brief than the last one. If you have a question for our guest, please send it in quickly because we are rapidly running out of time.

01:38:04

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:38:09

And as always, please remember to give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

01:38:15

USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Don't go away. We'll be right back with our guest and more of our discussion on God -made boys and girls.

01:38:26

We'll be right back, God willing, after these messages. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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Spread the word about firstloveradio .org. Welcome back, and we have a question for you,

01:51:14

Marty, from Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania. She asked, Does your book have lists of things that are unique qualities and blessings that girls have that boys do not have, and vice versa, that are not to be envied by girls when possessed by boys or envied by boys when possessed by girls, but just to be appreciated that each gender has these unique attributes and blessings?

01:51:44

Well, I don't specifically have a list like that, but I try to put in truths subtly that will be picked up by the children.

01:51:57

So, for example, I have a chart that has a mom and a dad on it, and it actually says mom and dad, and I basically talk about that God is the one who chooses your gender code, and so that, referring to boy and girl, is an association with mom and dad.

01:52:20

One of the things that I did want to address in this book, which is a little bit different issue, are some of the gender stereotypes that kids are pigeonholed in, so that if, for example, you're a girl that likes to fix cars, that somehow there's something wrong with you.

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That's a boy thing. Or a boy who likes to sing, there's something wrong with you.

01:52:44

That's a girl thing. Now, we know that's not true. God can give those gifts to either sex. They're not sex -specific.

01:52:51

Whereas, obviously, giving birth to children is a sex -specific gift.

01:52:59

So what I did was I wanted to, you know, what happens in a book like this on gender is you want to equip parents to keep from themselves making some kind of gender undercut to their children.

01:53:16

Not so much, oh, boys don't dress in dresses, but if your son is good at cooking and he likes to bake a cake, you don't say, oh, that's what girls do.

01:53:28

Some of the best chefs in the world are men. That's not a girl -specific occupation.

01:53:33

So I wanted to make sure I dealt with both boys become dads, girls become moms, but then these gender stereotypes we need to be careful with.

01:53:44

And we have Mary in Cork, Ireland, who has a question.

01:53:51

And Mary in Cork, Ireland asks, do you not think that many parents have gone way overboard in being upset by rough housing and other things that boys are typically involved in?

01:54:06

I think that very often the phrase, boys are boys, and that should not be something that is totally discounted and that we should not feminize our boys, as long as we are being cautious that they are not hurting themselves or others or being cruel.

01:54:26

Don't you think that boys will be boys is something that we need to always remember?

01:54:32

I would wholeheartedly agree. And I think that this idea that all the boys need to settle down and sit kindly at desk, you know, we homeschooled our family.

01:54:46

And one of the things we learned with our boys is that they couldn't be cooped up sitting down in a chair forever.

01:54:54

And so we would just say, hey, guys, you need to go run two times around the house and come back in.

01:55:01

And when our boys were wrestling, we didn't say, you know, stop that, stop that, you're making too much noise.

01:55:08

We allowed our boys to climb trees and explore and catch snakes.

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And, you know, I am a hunter and I took my boys hunting with me.

01:55:21

And so they learned how to properly harvest an animal and what to do to butcher an animal and then use it to provide for food.

01:55:31

So I'm all for recognizing the things that God has called men to do, provide for their family, defend their family, and teach your boys to do that in all the appropriate, robust ways.

01:55:44

Yeah, you know what's really scary? I even know personally parents who have put their children, their sons especially, on Ritalin and other drugs because they just freak out when they see this aggressive behavior in their sons that aren't even doing anything that is really dangerous.

01:56:11

Don't you agree that this world of quick fix medication for problems or perceived problems is a very dangerous road?

01:56:21

I think it is. I think that medication is so widely over prescribed. I think there may be some instances where there is a proper diagnosis made, but my goodness, you know,

01:56:35

I tell moms and dads, if your son is wild, if he is an adventurer, very much he's probably going to be a leader and God's going to use him.

01:56:47

And all of those gifts are going to be used for the power of hell until the kid gets saved. So preach the gospel to that young man.

01:56:54

We need him in the kingdom. Amen. Well, I want you to now have two minutes to just summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners about boys and girls,

01:57:04

God -made boys and girls. Well, I would say this, that it is critically important in this culture that we be teaching our children very young and early the proper understanding about gender.

01:57:18

We cannot wait until the culture has already begun to teach them wrongly to somehow try to correct things that they've been taught wrongly.

01:57:28

We need to get in there and be teaching our youngest children that gender is a gift from God, something that never changes.

01:57:37

And I would just encourage the listening audience, if they have children that are young, anywhere from four years old up to 10, to go ahead and get a copy of God -made boys and girls and read it through with your children.

01:57:52

It's not going to cause them to think anything different than what you've already taught them, but what it'll do is it'll emphasize those truths that God made them, if they're a boy, to be a boy, and if they're a girl, to be a girl.

01:58:08

And then I would just say to the listening audience, affirm the sexuality of your children.

01:58:14

So when a boy holds the door for his sister or helps his mom pick up the groceries out of the car without being asked, pull him aside and say, you know what, son?

01:58:27

You just did what a man does. Way to go. You're going to be a great dad.

01:58:32

When you see a young girl help her mom out with some things around the house, pull her aside and say, well done.

01:58:40

You are going to be such a great mommy someday. Affirm gender in your kids when they're young.

01:58:46

It will serve as a foundation for when they get confusing thoughts, which are sure to come through the media, school, or otherwise later on in their lives.

01:58:55

I want to thank you so much, Marty, for being such an outstanding guest today. I look forward to you returning to this show often if you agree with my assessment that this was an excellent program.

01:59:06

And I wanted to remind our listeners that this book has been published by New Growth Press, and you can find out more about the titles they publish at newgrowthpress .com,

01:59:18

newgrowthpress .com. I urge you to purchase these books from CVBBS .com,

01:59:24

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CVBBS .com, since they are a sponsor of this program, and purchasing through CVBBS .com

01:59:30

is obviously not going to hurt New Growth Press at all. And I want to thank everybody who listened today, and don't forget also about Covenant Fellowship Church, where our guest is a pastor in Pennsylvania.

01:59:44

Covfell .org, Covfell .org, C -O -V -F -E -L .org

01:59:50

is the website. I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater