Job 11

11 let's read the chapter and Then make some comments as we go through it chapter 11 now is where Zophar the third of the supposed friends of Job comes in and His speeches are the shortest of the speeches matter of fact.

He only has two speeches or two Words in the in the book of Job, but I will say as you read it I think the other chapters chapter 20 I'm not positive where he comes in and speaks he has some of the harshest words For Job out of the the three of them They seem to have a different character about each one if you read through their different speeches But but so far seems to be to me at least he's the most cutting He doesn't seem to mince his words at all and just remember now they have been Present the three of them have been present with Job unless you have a different understanding they've all been together now in this time where they're Supposedly had come to comfort Job and they wind up really Not really bringing any comfort.

So that's where we're now at reading chapter 11 and let's just read the chapter together Then Zophar the Nehemiathite Answered and said should not the multitude of words be answered and should man full of talk be vindicated Should your empty talk make men hold their peace and when you mock when you mock should no one rebuke you But you have said my doctrine is pure and I am clean in your eyes But oh that God would speak and open his lips against you and he would show you the secrets of wisdom For they would double your prudence Know therefore that God exacts from you less than your iniquity deserves Can you search out the deep things of God? Can you find the limits of the Almighty? They are higher than the head.

They are not higher than heaven.

What can you do deeper than Sheol? What can you know their measure is longer than the earth and broader than the sea? If he passes by in prisons and gathers to judgment then who can hinder him But he knows deceitful men.

He sees wickedness.

Also.

Will he not then consider it? For an empty-headed man will be wise when a wild donkeys cult is born of a woman if you would prepare your heart and stretch out your hands towards him if Iniquity were in your hand and you put it for our way and would not let wickedness dwell in your tents Then surely you could lift up your face without spot yes, you could be steadfast and not fear because you would forget your misery and Remember it as waters that have passed away and your life would be brighter than noon noon day and though you were dark you would be like the morning and You would be secure because there is hope yes, you would dig about you and take your rest in safety You would also lie down and no one would make you afraid Yes, many would court your favor But the eyes of the wicked will fail and they shall not escape and their hope loss of life so there are the words of Zophar and again, he's been sitting here and he's listened to Eliphaz Confront Job and he's listened to build that confront job.

And so again, he pretty much it's his turn and and if you Followed what we just read as I said, his words are really pretty brutal of what he's actually accusing job of and It really is something for us to think about and I guess I've been thinking about it as I've been looking at it and Yeah, what I think that they want and we could have some conversation they want Joe basically to cave in They want job to say, you know what job you're right I'm a wicked man.

I have sinned secretly God has found out my iniquity and you're absolutely right and I can't hide no more and they kind of want him to Give in So to their thinking in their way and job keeps resisting and if you think about that and I thought about that a little bit it really is a matter of We really have to be Sure where we stand Before God in other words if we're gonna if we're gonna handle the onslaughts of the world and it's certainly there are sometimes They're from without and many times they're from within.

I mean just because Someone says they're your friend or just because someone says that you're there on your side Many times at least sometimes it proves out that they're not really friends and they're not really on your side So you and I have to have this Conviction in our minds and in our hearts because again The waves of life and and and the things that come against us are many And again, they want Joe basically just say, okay You're right So you look at what they begin to say here in in the chapter So he answers and said should not the multitude of your words be answered and should a man full of talk Be vindicated.

It's not the first time they called him.

They said it this way.

Basically what they're saying is Job you're a bag of wind you're not even close to where you ought to be and Basically, you ought to you ought to stop this and Should your empty words make men holy peace Basically saying, you know, you can say all you want job, but we know where you're at And just because you defend yourself and just because you defend yourself before God that doesn't mean that We should just accept that.

I Wanted to ask us to think about that a little bit How are we to handle people? When they tell us something Wait, what's? Are we to believe people for what they say When they tell us when they tell us of what their convictions are and When they tell us about Their faith in Christ, how should we receive that should we receive it with? Yeah Suspicion should we should we receive it openly? When job right Joe has defended himself, right? he has held up against their if you will their continual onslaught and and So far comes against him basically calls him Basically call him a liar He's saying you're not right.

So again, how do we how we to respond to? Someone who tells us that they're right with God What's our attitude? What should our attitude be? Yeah Okay, that's where I was trying to drive To think a little bit in other words when someone comes to us and they tell us that there Let's put it in a in a context of they were a child of God Our response should be should be praise the Lord, right and our response should be one in which we are not suspicious unless There's cause to be suspicious which would then go back to what I think you just said their lifestyle like in other words If you look they're looking at Job's life and they're trying to make An evaluation, but they really don't know Job's life, right? Do they they haven't been with Job They haven't walked with Job as Job has walked with God so when you think about it and just an An application for me in my life is is I should believe people until I have reason not to believe them we want not to go around and and and be doubtful of everything that everybody says unless again, there's cause and evidence to back up that cause and I think at times we just you know We make a lot of perceptions.

I Think I've said this to you and I could I know I'm close But they said it takes person no more than 10 seconds to make a perception of somebody they meet for the first time and that and that's pretty That's pretty short in in those perceptions are sometimes hard to break until you Do you ever meet someone and you think man? This person must be really smart They just look like they're really smart and to lay up in their mouth and then all of a sudden you think what Or or the opposite you see someone and they look like they're a mess and yet they're full of Wisdom and understanding and and so again, the the reality is we got to be careful when When we think about these things, but so far has made the same Evaluation that his friends made that job is a basically he's not telling the truth he's full of talk and When he says should we hold our peace I mean He says in at the second half of that verse when you mock Should no one rebuke you.

What does he mean when he says should you mock? Who's he mocking? Who's job mark? Who do they think job is mocking? Do they not think that that job is mocking God Because basically what they're saying is you're not being honest And and not only are you not being honest you're mocking God You're mocking us because we're the ones that are coming here and we're trying to get you to repent job and and you're having none of this and When you think about it again Job has Job has held his ground pretty good so far hasn't he? I mean we're only in chapter 11, but he's really held up to for a man who's been through so much And For a man who has suffered so many things in such a short period of time in such quick Intervals You would think that that perhaps And job is a mess.

I do believe he's a mess But the one thing that he's not a mess about is his conviction before God Considering like And no less Correct Speaks about the sovereignty of God and it shows that none of them at this point understood The sovereignty of God and and I know this is just me just assuming But if the shoe was on the other foot Joe probably would have spoke the same way because they had the same information And as we could assume about all these guys, they do have a desire to serve God is just that they are based on the revelation I would say that The thing you just said make maybe think a little bit that if it was the other way around with Job the same as them I'm not sure if I would go that far Because I think there's a quality in Job that Although they the French speak a lot of truth but I think there's a there's a quality of Job as he speaks through this that Would lead me to think that he has a little bit more understanding than they do And and again, I agree with you brother that that They're only dealing with what they know and really it's not till we get to the end of the book Where God says to Job? You stand up because I'm gonna question you and you answer me and then at the end of course Job says I've heard of you with the hearing of my ears, but now I see you and then he confesses before God so With that where it says that Job was righteous in all his ways Yeah You know what's interesting about that? brothers and sisters and We talked about this a little bit and and I am not certain In my own mind if we've come up to a conclusion of the state of his three friends like in other words, I know where they're from they're from places where and Nations where the worship of God Wouldn't perhaps not have been as prominent but but neither was Job So in that sense, they're all in the same boat And and yet I would say I'm just trying to respond to you Tim is that I'm not certain that Job would act exactly as they did although Again they're looking at it from the outside.

They're looking in and they're trying to see.

Okay.

What what's the problem? What's the situation and And they've made it their evaluation.

Their evaluation is simple job.

You're sinner You've done something God and you'll see it as we go through there And Now God's coming after you look at verse 4 So this is still so far and he says you have said my doctrine is pure and I am clear I am clean in your eyes.

I Don't know anywhere with Job ever said that He never says he's pure He never says he's sinless.

He never says he's blameless.

He never says he has no guilt he doesn't say anything like that and here's what I thought of I thought of Mm-hmm Sometimes when we're trying to convince somebody of something or when we're disagreeing with somebody over something at times it's Sometimes it leads to a point where since we can't win the argument We attack the person right I mean in other words You you can't get you you can't get the other person to agree with you So, what do you try to do? You just got to tear that person down, right? You you do, huh? Yeah, oh, yeah, right and that's attacking their character and it's a character assassination is what it is so if we can, you know, if we can bring somebody down and Break them down and many times again as I say When when all else fails shout I'll just think about it.

We do that all the time.

I mean Again, you you're probably more spiritual with me.

But when I get to a point where I feel frustration or something Why is it that my voice gets louder? Who am I trying to impress? I know what I'm trying to do.

I'm trying to to drowned out whoever I'm Talking to and again, is that right? No our speech should be Even all the way across but it's not and you and I both would have to say That's the way it is so he attacks job he says that his doctrine job is claiming he's claiming that job says his doctrine is pure and Then in verse 5 but older God would speak and open his lips against you Then he would show you the secrets of wisdom then you would double your prudence Know therefore that God exacts from you less than your iniquity deserves Absolute that's exactly what he's doing, right? He says job basically, I'm trying to explain this to you Lucy and you're not getting it and If you would only listen to me job and and and at the more I've been looking at the book of Job the arrogance of These three friends is amazing to me.

They really think they got it together They really think that they're the messenger of God to Joe now in a sense God is using right God has made all things for himself.

God uses everything God doesn't waste anything So in a sense that that could be applied there, but yeah, I agree with you basically he's calling him a babbler He's a liar He's a denier of the truth, but Oh Job if you would only look at me because I'm trying to help you job.

And that's another thing.

I wonder sometimes if a Motive is really to help or not Just Thinking of it this way just for a second and I'll give would you do If we take it from the New Testament Let's take it from a New Testament perspective just for a minute And let's take it from the one another's of the Bible.

And if you remember we did a study I think me and Mike did it together I know we did it together where we looked at 48 specific one another's in the New Testament Maybe was 36.

It was something like that Of loving one another and suffering or another comfort one another and be at peace with one another and be Tender-hearted be forgiving to one another all the one another's there's not a how there's not a lot of one another's here in the book Of Job, is there? These guys are really pretty They're pretty brutal They have they have come and for whatever reason they have banded together Basically they're gonna pile on job until they crush them at least try to question Well, I could think of a couple of things number one that God is using them to bring Again, my thought God is using them to bring job to a greater understanding of God All right, so that's that's one thing God is using them to expose truth To us And the reason why I say that is because so what I think about the scriptures that all scriptures given by inspiration of God is Profitable for reproof for instruction for correction of righteousness Paul says the things that were written before time of what? written for our Example in admonition, right? So do I think that they're Cognizant of all that no But there is a reality that God is using the devil certainly is using them when you say that I mean, he's a he's he's captive to Well Satan has been given Limited power, right? So in that sense He's using them to accomplish his purpose to try to crush job because what does Satan really want from job anyway? Curse God and die right just let it go Curse God to his face.

So again that leads me to think I'm not certain where these three friends are at in their minds I just think that they're truly acting In the best interest with the best information that they had and they're speaking a lot of true things Even in this chapter 11 Is this he's not saying Joe? Repent and curse.

He didn't say curse God He's saying Joe if you would only repent Then God will come in and give you hope and give you joy, that's not a Statement from From saying I think going back to David's question.

I could be wrong is the purpose of this.

I Know some people see it as differently.

I see it as a historical narrative and It's just God Revealing himself like you said brother Andy to make himself Known throughout history and this is just part of that revelation and we can see the limits that men have without special revelation and We can see the sovereignty of God and as we move on through history We know better.

So we we are called to do better.

But when we look at their friends, we can call the miserable Comforters, which is a true statement But I don't know about being used by Satan any more than anybody else is By Satan is just Yeah, well you're totally wrong but that's okay And if you just repent brother Timmy we'll get going again I Will say yeah, I will say this so let's think about it this way if we are not gods then who do we belong to No, if we're not gods Then we belong to Then our father is who the devil so in that sense Let's assume for a minute.

They do not have a right relationship with God.

Just make that assumption of three friends Then they are captives of the evil one Okay, because again, that's the only two places you could be those are only two poles right now Could their intentions be good and still be used by the evil one.

Yeah I'm not I'm not trying to assume I'm not saying that I'm just saying we don't know In that sense we do know about job because it says it in the beginning of the book.

He was righteous before God, right? We don't really know where where these three guys are at at this point And that's why I was saying is like we don't know no, we don't know Yes Okay, are they using the revelation That they know but are they using it in a right way because to me there's a difference in that right right, there's a difference between what they know and how they use what they know and that If we use God's revelation in a wrong way, then we're really not Bringing any help.

We're actually creating harm, right? Yeah Sure, sure Yeah, I mean if you look at the scriptures and think about it from the standpoint of the whole scriptures Many people in the scriptures were used by God Some had Right intentions some had wrong intentions and yet God used it I mean I the thing it jumped into my mind right away was Joseph's brothers, right? even that statement you meant it for evil and God meant it for good and And so yeah, I would agree that we can't read too much into it.

But I do think we have to make some sort of A valuation, right? Concerning Joe Yeah, again Yeah Yeah Well, the means that he gave him if we think about from the second chapter you do anything you want You just can't take his life, right? He mean he used he used the civilians.

He used the the other travelers.

He used the wind he used Fire he used his wife, right? I mean so Again that's what I'm saying.

If we think about using his friend and everything Okay in this way It's hard to keep it Separate in our minds from a historical because I do agree with Tim said this is a historical narrative And we need to keep it there But I also think about what it says concerning all things work together for good to those that love God Right and job is certainly loved of God Unless we're gonna say that we're not sure the status of job, which I'm not gonna I'm not prepared to say that I'm prepared to say that job was right before God being right before God and being right with God Has some there's some nuance in that right? No, it's I'm right with God Not because of myself.

I'm right with God because of the work of Christ.

That doesn't mean I'm always right with God Right Disney there's a distinction in that and and certainly that's the whole thought of sanctification and fellowship and and and look Which one of us would say would not say there are times that God seems like he's walking right next to you And there are times where? Where are you God? Right, and I think job is bouncing off the wall in that sense Spiritually, he's he's a mess but being a mess doesn't destroy His conviction that he's right with God.

Right and and again, these are these are you might say well just split in hands But I don't think if you look at our lives and you look at Job's life.

He pretty he's not much different than us.

He's he's got All kinds of issues going on unless unless your lives are that Perfect, I mean so in even in that God is instructing us through all these different means but Again, when so far come if you read just what so far say, I mean, he's not holding back he's not saying hey Job, you know, I really understand your situation and and Boy is there anything we could do for you job? No, he's just he's just He's throwing a hammer at him Oh, absolutely, that's exactly right One thing that so far says here again Satan's design is getting the curse God to his face.

Yeah, so far here is calling to repentance now it may not be as Gracious as we would do it but he's calling to repentance and one thing that you brought up early and I can't wait till you get to it is the question of is Job's wife She's the one who says curse God and we Yeah Well, we're gonna have to wait till like chapter 37 Yeah, but that's part of the issue don't you think friends part of the issue is their friends are on the wrong road In my mind they're on the wrong path they're not there to to They're basically trying to speak for God And they don't have the understanding to speak for God Not only because of natural revelation or special revelation.

They don't know the situation They really don't and again to your point.

We need to be very careful with each other We don't know what's going on in each other's lives that much do we I mean again It always amazes me.

We come in on a Sunday morning.

How you doing? I'm good.

Good.

How are you? I'm good I'm good.

And meanwhile, we're crumbling inside Or we somebody might perceive boy you okay, and we're we're flying in the mountains So again, our our abilities with one another are limited, aren't they? And so I agree with you Tim that they are Sincerely trying to get job to repent but I think the manner and the way in which they're trying to do it is horrendous and That that is an example for us.

I mean, so I don't know It's it's like I Come up to you and I said, you know, I got a flat tire today and you turn around say well If you would only repent you wouldn't get a flat tire Yeah, you know I'm saying it's like What would you expect that's the life you live I mean you're gonna have problems it just doesn't always pan out that way All right.

Let's just try to get a little further.

So he says and this is interesting in verse 6 That if he basically tells you if you repent then basically God will will bring sunshine on you And he'll give you understanding and you'll you'll be able to live a great life.

It's interesting what he says in verse 16 He says you would forget your misery and remember it as waters that have passed away I wondered if where it says it and remember it as waters that have passed away I wonder if that's where we came up with the idea of water under the bridge That's just just a crazy thought that I had But but basically what what he's trying to say is Job if you'd only repent You will see the sunshine come out and then he says no therefore that God Exacts from you less than your iniquity deserves.

I think that's worthy of a minute of thought Mm-hmm.

Is that true? Has God exacted from Job less than his iniquity deserved? Okay Anybody want to disagree No, okay, we're all in agreement that that that's a true statement and that That's always the case that God has exacted from all people less than their iniquity deserves I think it sounds good, but we need to be careful, and I'm not saying that it's wrong, right? I'm just saying that we need to be careful when we say God exacted you less than Your guilt deserves is to show that God is not just God exacts exact from you exactly what you deserve No more no less because he's fully just so I give I give From a theological perspective.

That's absolutely true, right? Right, but When you think about it from list from the standpoint of the depravity of man I would say we don't deserve any of the good that what right? What do we have that we have not what we see right and if God would mock it? What is it saying Psalms if God mocks mocks iniquity? Who could stand? right, so if it was if it was a matter of I'm trying to because I don't want to Do exactly what you just said.

I don't want to make it sound as if God is is is His justice kind of moves back and forth.

God is always just the same way.

God is always good, right? God is always right God is always God But in that sense what so far is accusing job of is job God's letting you off easy because your sin has been so terrible and and and God should really pile on more on your life and And when you think about that again, how how does he In what way does he have the right to do this to Job? He don't you don't really know Job's life that well He says the God is a exacting less than you deserve.

Is it true? Yeah, if we all got what we deserve we would all be lost.

We would not only be we'd be destroyed, right? We'd be like Sodom and Gomorrah same thing.

God saw the wickedness and he said I can't Paraphrase but I'm done with this.

I'm gonna destroy it Same way when they went up on the mountain when Moses went up on the mountain and they were making the calf right and they're worshiping it and Comes down and remember what God said to Moses get away from me and let me destroy them I'll give you another nation.

And what is Job? What does Moses plead with God? His goodness his mercy, right? It says don't do that.

Your name will be Disrespected so Well, there's part of it is Well We got all of about 45 seconds Let's think about this think about it from a so and reap Because again, that's one of the great thoughts that they have in this right that Job is sown and now he's reaping from a so and reap perspective would then would that be true that God exacts less from us than our iniquity deserves No Why not what have we sown what what have we sown Wickedness, right Right, right right that's so in that sense from a so and reap perspective If we are we are the fact that we still are in relationships have blessings go on cruises All those kinds of things did God has blessed us right God is blessed God blesses the Prosperity of the wicked many times, right? So in that sense, is that That always true that what we sow we reap Not necessarily is it true Eternally, absolutely, right? again, there's Yeah, I think I think we got to think about it in I don't want to say on levels but in in time and space Things are not always God is eternal in his in his purposes and If we get hung up Where we ought not if our mind dwells Exactly on the things of this earth.

It's going to be confusing It's going to be confusing.

So in that sense, is it a so and reap principle? No, again, I mean we Do we get less than what we deserve? Because you could you could almost flip that around the other way Right and say well look you know someone who Does everything for everybody to please God do they get what they deserve? I Don't know you and then you gotta look at it what Jesus said Is it not awful for me to do what I will with my own? You know Right, absolutely Absolutely and keep it in the here The then and if you will then you could even say eternally right because it's When is things finally made right? We have to be close.

When are when will things finally be made, right? at the at the judgment seat of Christ Right because it says we will all give account of ourselves And everything will be made straight at that point now if you're a primalist you think that happens before the rapture Or during the rapture after the rapture for you.

If you're right, you think it just happens when Christ comes again Look I'm willing to bear with a primalist as long as you listen to truth Let's let's close the word prayer father.

Thank you for our time together Lord.

Sometimes it seems We try at times Lord to understand and sometimes we do and sometimes we don't want and yet you're so good to us that you You allow us to gather together to discuss things to consider things and Lord We just pray Holy Spirit You use all this to teach us in our lives to be more like Christ for if we would just like him Lord We would have no issues at all.

So until that day Help us Lord.

Give us grace now to worship Give us grace to sing give us grace to pray give us grace to hear and may you speak is only you can in Christ's name I Do I will say this just as you leave I do enjoy the conversation I don't care if it takes 10 years to get through the book of Job.