The Laborers' Podcast- What is the Bible all about?

Welcome to the laborers podcast tonight. We're going to be talking about the Bible. We hope you will stay tuned stay with us and Watch together

Hey again, welcome to the laborers podcast The laborers podcast is the guys within the truth and love network coming together to have a conversation

For each other iron sharpening iron for you But for the glory of God to exalt

Christ to glorify him to to share the truth of God's Word and to to edify believers to reach the lost and and we we love doing it together we love

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We'll see that and we'll pray for you But I'm thankful to be with my brothers again on Thursday night, we've got Tyler from bread of the word podcast

How you doing Tyler? Good good. We got Claude happy Calvinist from the here.

I stand theology podcast. Sup, Claude. Hello, sir And sirs and sirs

Andy God -centered theology. How are you doing? Very well, sir Good good and big

John real talk with big John. How you doing? I'm doing well. Hope you are Doing good tonight.

We're going to talk about the Bible and Let's jump right into it. I wanted to start with this question

I I know it's a humdinger of a question and that's one of our good southern words It's a presuppositional

It's more of an apologetics type question That's not really what this this episode is about.

It's we're not gonna be talking about apologetics how to defend your faith But the reason why

I wanted to talk about this question is because I think it's beneficial for the new believer for the the average believer when you are

Asking your own questions when you're doing your own study when you when you're struggling This is one of the questions that come up and it's it gives us confidence

To know that we have answers and that's why I wanted to start with this question so the question is

It's talking about circular reason reasoning now circular reasoning from my understanding.

It's a logical fallacy and when we're when we're coming up with argumentation when we're having a discussion with someone else that has a difference with us and we're trying to Share them our point of view and they're sharing their point of view

One of the things we don't want to do is use logical fallacies which circular reasoning is a logical fallacy

So can somebody define? circular reasoning just general definition

Well, I'll take it circular reasoning is just very simply You start with the conclusion in mind and then you reason to that so one of the best examples that we see is and This is not the subject for well,

I guess it we might get into this later, but I'm not going to dive into it real deep right now. But within King James only ism.

There is a cultic form of it that Essentially what they do is they start

With the King James Bible alone equals the Word of God alone And as you go around the circle having discussion no matter what comes up no matter what would be against or for it

They just circle right back to well, it doesn't matter because King James Bible alone equals the Word of God alone

You're starting with your conclusion in mind and no matter what you encounter you just can circle continuously right back to that So that's that's what it is in a very simple nutshell

Here's what we run into though We as Christians. I found it to be true in most circles that Even though circular reasoning is a logical fallacy it works for Christianity and works for the

Bible and However Those who are opponents of ours they will say

You can't use circular reasoning You're just saying the Bible is true because the

Bible says it's true and that's circular and you can't prove that you can't prove circular reasoning you're just You know, it's a logical fallacy

But but we can Can somebody explain how we can use? Circular reasoning and it's not a logical fallacy

I'll take a stab at it. Yeah. Yeah, it's gonna be a layman's terms now. Absolutely Whenever somebody is using circular reasoning

Usually what they're doing is asserting some form of authority They're stating as because they have an authority over on the matter that more or less

Whatever they say is right and then they go to assert whatever kind of thing they say makes them, right?

well, the scripture has authority and man, and the

Bible we forget is is not a Singular book and it's a it is a book more less collection of books so whenever we talk about The other day we were dealing with prayer and somebody said this is why you know all of the scriptures work harmoniously to describe what's being said in Matthew chapter 5 whenever Jesus is talking about prayer all the way down to James and whenever you think about it

Well, those are we use like two or three different books now They're all contained inside the Bible, but the fact that you can use two or three different books inside of the same collection of books and They're all authoritative and they were all saying the same thing.

It's not like you're reading it I mean you already have the same book. I want to make sure we get it clear but Because the

Bible one is authoritative you can use the Bible as its own witness and When you're using different books inside of the

Bible to prove one section or one point It's not circular reasoning in the same manner.

It would be circular reasoning if you used I Don't know say you were a geologist and you were using the dirt layer to decide how old the bones were inside the dirt and then

You told them how old the dirt was because of the bones were found inside the dirt you're using two things and neither one of them are authoritative and That that that's a that's a failed circular logic you understand did that make sense at all?

Yeah. Yeah Claude you sent a really good article That discussed

Bonson and his discussion on circular reasoning and Jason Lau Can you can you go in any thoughts from that article for us?

Yeah, what what these guys have said already is so good because Basically, it boils down to this

Because John I'm I must I too am a simple man so basically the circular reasoning reasoning as a logical fallacy is simply an argument based on another argument that has no bearing or Force or foundation beneath it

So Does that make sense? I mean, you know in a lot of times ad hominem arguments are included as logical fallacies

Why is this the case? Well because you're stupid and I'm not But On this in this article on apologetic central org

They the way that they worded is so plain and clear as well. The method we are using assumes the authority of Scripture Bing bing bing just like what

John said and from there we approve or I'm sorry not we approve Approve, but we prove the authority of Scripture Although it's not the logical fallacy of the

Bible is true because the Bible is true Some people might still have issue with this because it has a broad circularity does that does not seem acceptable to us?

So in the larger in the large landscape of where you've got us going tonight

Rob We are going to be literally Circling back around this question that you're starting us off with and and building the argument according to The Scripture itself, which is the standard because without a standard there is no standard

If you try to argue with an atheist and you tell and there was there's a little

I've talked about this little girl at church She just turned seven. So I don't want to call her six years old anymore But man,

I've told you all how smart and how sharp and how quick she is. I went into Sunday school last week

To go through the this the little kids class with the catechism questions and All of a sudden she goes off on one of her tangents and she's she's telling her teacher

She said I was talking to this little girl the other day and I was trying to have a logical

Discussion with her for her to realize that God is real When you're a six -year -old little girl talking like this, it's like you just stand back

Don't hurt me don't hurt me But I mean, it's it's the truth it's it's being able to buy in I don't want to misappropriate the term but by using the scriptures as our standard and the scriptures themselves being

Self -attesting truth and proven throughout time as we go throughout the remainder of the podcast here

You can't go wrong because If you tell an atheist to prove there is no

God, they've got to have a foundation They've got to have a starting place. And so as Christians our starting place is the scripture

So we can use circular reasoning because we have a foundation We have a an authority and not only that we have the authority the final

The ultimate authority so that's why we can use circular reasoning Before we go on any further before I Kind of joke around a little bit.

Jonathan. Did you get your latest haircut at your? Event. Yes, I did.

I sure did. Well, well my comment was gonna be The old saying is you get what you paid for but I'm assuming you got a free haircut and man.

I'm telling you it looks really good. Thank you. Thank you very much Thank you very much Guys They did it up, right?

It looks good. It was absolutely tremendous. We had a just a tremendous turnout and just a ton of stories of how how the

Lord just Just just opened doors I'll tell you one real quick one.

I know if it's okay There was there was a lady that had been in a

Homosexual relationship called another lady her wife and I Had knocked on that family's door and met them and had a brief conversation with them the week before inviting them to come the lady that I met

In that conversation was 31 years old and fell over dead that week and so her partner showed up at the event just weeping and Sharing with us what had happened and we had just a beautiful opportunity to love on her

Share the gospel with her and then she asked Pastor Julian and I to come to their house

They did a memorial service at our house. And so yesterday We got to go to their house and preach the gospel to their neighborhood and There's just love on those people.

So I would really appreciate it If you guys would keep this family in your prayers and the ministry and that's just one of many many gospel opportunities that we had there

That was really powerful if I could just make a quick comment about the circular reasoning to One thing

I was going to say is we can't deny that it's if we use circular reasoning for biblical

Argument there still has to be an original root of faith because our faith

Says that we believe the Bible as authoritative and and that's fair It's a fair statement and it is fair and it is absolutely a hundred percent true and my faith doesn't dictate whether it's true or not

But it's still in order for me to Hold that is true. I have to have a faith based

Exercise that that is true. And so so that is where You know, we have to acknowledge that that people that lack faith that that that is where that comes in And I'd also make the argument as far as the

Bible goes Circular reasoning is normal for biblical apologetics based on what we believe is authoritative

But I would say it's not always necessary. There's also linear logic for example Creation we can start with creation and in linear point from creation

There had to be somewhere that there's a start of a creator even scientifically there had to be something

That starts it no matter how you try to prove Evolutions micro or macro or all those kind of situations.

There's always a starting point somewhere Everybody says there has to be a spark of something and so even creation itself speaks of a creator and and so that can be very linear and I think sometimes can be a stronger argument

With unbelievers and even circular reasoning so in discipleship circular reasoning is is normal because it's among people who have like faith

But when dealing with people that are unlike in faith You don't have to depend upon circular reasoning

I guess is what I'm trying to say that there's other pretty logical Arguments to to prove the

Bible to prove the existence of God to prove those things and so just just a comment To note that Tyler did you have anything were you looking up something for circular reasoning?

Yes, I was I was just looking at Acts 17 in my Greek New Testament and Acts 17 is an interesting passage where Paul is

Doing some mission work and he comes to this thing called the Arapagus and there's this this big temple so to speak with all these different Pagan gods represent and there's

God of this country this country this country and then there's this empty spot called the altar to the unknown

God the Literally, my Greek New Testament says agnostos Unknown to not know which is where I would presume we get the word agnostic is agnosto

And Paul goes to these these lofty philosophers that are over there Discoursing on all the different pantheon of gods and this this unknown

God that all these others are bound to for the one from the many and Paul straight up tells them in verse 23 that The one whom you worship without knowing him

I proclaim to you There's not a single philosophical system in the world that does that You won't find that Eastern philosophy you won't find that in Western philosophy you'll find that in one book

You'll find that in the Bible That there is one that we are all bound to But I know him and I proclaim it to you.

Amen. He is not Zeus. He is not Equal with any of these other deities.

He is the only deity The one who made the world and everything in it

Since he is Lord in heaven of earth does not dwell in temples made with hands

But he is worshipped in spirit and truth. So we're not talking about when we talk about circular reasoning.

The reality is this is true Amen, that this is the truth And so if I am being circular in my thinking by tying everything back to the truth, and so be it

Amen But you were adding just a little teaspoon more of Apologetics in there that I really really love.

I know some people like to use the language Yeah, if this is true, but but Tyler you were talking about I know him and I can therefore speak with authority

There is a God. I know him his name is Jesus Christ. I mean you can speak with authority

Amen with what you have to say man And I appreciated that little extra bit of apologetics there.

That was really good. Really good Andy, let's let's drop down to you for the next question

Where and when did the the term Bible come from? We that's our English term People may be interested

Where where we got that term Did you say you're coming to me? Yeah. Yeah I actually want to take a step back because sure

I got I got to define circular reasoning But I didn't I want to actually give some thoughts on it. Absolutely One of the because I want to talk about presuppositional apologetics for a second.

Okay, just because someone can levy the Argument that you're engaging in circular reasoning does not change anything because the one

Bringing forth the accusation of circular reasoning is themselves engaging in circular reasoning as Many others have but I first learned it from dr.

White out there in the dry heat of Arizona He's he's told us for many many years as long.

It's been almost two decades. I've been following he's been saying ever since I've been followed There are no neutral worldviews there is the myth of neutrality

See the person that would bring themselves and put themselves forward as a somehow neutral philosophical evidentialist type search at Best is ignorant and at worst is lying

Because there are no neutral workers. There is no place you can go as a human being and be absent from emotion desire upbringing culture

Biases all these things that go into answer the question what you believe and why do you believe it?

So I was actually and once again I don't know why this keeps happening to me But I find these great articles and I can't find out who wrote them as a person as a person that builds websites

I would say for a for a living, but I don't actually make any money doing it It is of utmost importance to me when

I put somebody's article my website or their podcast my website I make sure their face is on it. Their name is on it the link to their websites on it

I go out of my way to give them credit So I don't know why these people's names aren't with their articles. It may have been there

I don't know, but I do know the website was Zondervan academic I was when I was looking through and this paragraph comes from them presuppositional apologetics is an approach in is tongue twisted is an approach to Christian apologetics which aims to expose the

Faulty foundations of unbelieving thought and argues the biblical worldview alone makes human experience intelligible

By questioning and unbelievers presuppositions and requiring them to justify

Their rationality the apologist reduces their position to absurdity Once the unbeliever realizes that their current worldview cannot provide just sufficient justification

Christianity is then articulated as the only option that makes the rational sense of the world and and finally

Matt slick Well -known apologists says this mean or he says moreover

Moral issues cannot be neatly separated from rational issues. It's a very important point because Ultimately what a person's issue is with the

Bible from their point of view either being true or potentially true Means that they're not the authority of their life and their morality

So he goes on to say humans are not neutral agents meaning that the myth of neutrality

They're not out there to discover God unimpeded rather They are simple beings who are limited because they suppress knowledge of God and then the final paragraph

I put my notes here that I thought was really important Matt says this means that no matter how convincing the evidence or good the

Logic an unbeliever cannot come to the faith because his fallen nature will distort how he perceives the truth and so I Wanted to quote these specifically for Matt and the unknown author

Because it really brings to light the bait the biggest point I always make about presuppositional apologetics

We don't have to stand back and let people just make wild accusations about our worldview

Presuppositional apologetics contains offense and defense we go on offense To expose the internal inconsistencies in another person's worldview.

Yeah defense to demonstrate the internal consistency of Scripture to explain why we're here

So I just want to kind of put that out there because everyone else did a wonderful job explaining

Why circular reason is it an argument against scripture? Well, I want to always want to bring out make sure we cover the fact that It's really not an argument because the one making the argument is doing the same thing

So what I forget the name of the logical fallacy where you accuse your opponent of doing it's like projection

You're basically projecting what you're doing. They're doing it too. They're coming with presuppositions Just like we are and that's what ultimately took me from the evidentialist perspective to the presuppositional perspective.

So sorry for the long -windedness there, but I really wanted to bring that out because Many Christians don't go to that level with it,

I think And you mentioned Matt Slick. So that's at CARM .org if anybody wants to go find him

He's great to listen to. CARM is short for Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry Sorry about that.

Go ahead Did any does anybody um have an answer for the the

Bible question, where do we get that term? Yes, I do I don't I'm not gonna even attempt

Greek. I'm barely attempt English, but the the word we get

About the Bible from means collection of the book or the a book of collection of books so it's

It's very simple. I suppose there's a very interesting I had never looked this up till today a very interesting article about it online and And to what brother

Andy's saying if you've ever heard of Vodou Boncombe preach on the sufficiency and the inerrancy of Scripture, it's excellent it's excellent.

He touches on every single question that is in this in a sermon and It had to be because I was searching this to figure out the

Greek word for it again, I'm not even gonna try it but the And the video came up on online and I had already watched it before but as soon as I saw it

I remembered looking at it and if anybody's watching this you search for brother

Vodou Boncombe up about the sufficiency and the Authority of Scripture, it's great.

It's absolutely great. I don't know how to send you a link. I Don't even know how I found it. But in any case it means a collection of books

Sorry about that squirrel moment Any additions to that?

So, yeah collection of books canon and what that means is it's a read or a measuring stick so a canonical book when we talk about the canon of Scripture canonical book means it

Measures up to the standard of the Holy Scripture itself. So for example, we know what a measuring stick is, right?

but a Yardstick right, by the way, I work at Home Depot We just got news that the company that's making the yardsticks for Home Depot.

Is it gonna make them any longer? going for meter sticks That joke 39 .4

inches this 3 .4 inches longer So So that's as you said

John, I believe I believe you you summed it up perfect in your statement there But yeah, it's a canon meaning read or measurement

Good deal. Um Jonathan Why don't we call the

Bible God's Word we call the Bible God's Word because it is a collection of God's words and That is pretty clear

From the beginning in the beginning Was the Word and the Word was God and the Word was with God and then the

Word became flesh that's from from John's account, but So we we call the

Bible God's Word because even in the beginning In creation God said let there be light.

It's one of the first recordings is God speaking in the beginning was God And then

God said let there be light, you know, he spoke over those things So so it so the Bible actually begins with the voice of God the speaking of God There is a collection throughout the

Old Testament of the prophets of God that are speaking on behalf of God the

Word of God and Then in the New Testament, we have the Word became flesh which

Jesus then said now I am the Word Living word of God I'm the Logos and so then now

Jesus is the fulfillment and the evidence of the Word of God in the living Word of God and so all the way throughout

The Biblia John it's not that hard of a Greek word now, buddy I'm not gonna try to say what

I thought it was But all the way through the

Bible we have an account of the

Word of God the spoken voice of God the The manifest Word of God all the way throughout and so that's what we call

The Bible is also known as the Word of God because it is the words of God Communicating to mankind so it's pretty simple answer pretty straightforward.

Yeah, I appreciate what you say because you answered the next question Does it include both the

Old and New Testaments and yes, it does because of Genesis we have God speaking They've got speaking through the prophets

So we have God speaking his word in in both Testaments and then in the

New Testament like you said the Word becomes flesh What does the

Bible say about itself tell you want to hit that one

Well with that Give me a moment to turn to Psalm chapter 19 Psalm 19 is

I'd like for you to quote that from memory First my verse Psalms are a book of songs of songs of praise of prayers and Psalm 19 is basically a praise for the written

Word of God for the scriptures itself and it says starting off in verse 1

The heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament or the expanse show with his handiwork

Day unto day it utters speech and night unto night reveals knowledge There is no speech or knowledge where their voice is not heard

Their line has gone out through all that were all the earth and their words to the end of the earth in them in this these words

He has set a tabernacle for the Sun which is like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber

And rejoices like a strong man to run his race His rising is from one end of heaven and its circuit to the other end and there is nothing hidden from his heat

The law of the Lord is perfect converting the soul the testimony of the Lord is sure making wise the simple

The statutes of the Lord are right rejoicing the heart the commandment of the Lord is pure enlightening the eyes

This is just one passage among many it says in the very last book of the New Testament My words are faithful and true the

Bible validates itself That this is perfect. It is pure. It is sure it is right

This isn't some other book. It is God speaking from the heavens. Come on now

In a without it's speaking in a very unique way. We're not talking about like a human voice

This is God's voice. It says elsewhere in the Psalms that the voice of the Lord shatters the cedars Even the mighty cedars of Lebanon, which was a massive tree

The voice of God is different and because it is different it is trustworthy

It is pure it is true in a way that is unique to itself

Amen, I Thought you were to talk about Osama. I thought you were talking about chapter 119

Oh Psalm chapter 19 One of these days

I'm gonna I'm gonna plug My guitar up into this interface one of these days and he's gonna start and I'm gonna take off in a blues note

There we go. We'll go with it brother Speaking speaking of which what is the main message of Scripture?

Boom, it is from beginning to end the story of redemption in Jesus Christ in him alone

And I can prove that by the way, if you turn to Luke chapter 24 Luke chapter 24

When Jesus arose from the dead on the road to Emmaus Scripture tells us about those two disciples that were walking and They were walking and they were sad

Jesus walks up and he says why is it that y 'all are so I'm paraphrasing, of course Why is it that y 'all are so sad?

Do you not know this what they said to Jesus? They said this to the resurrection and the life because their eyes were kept from recognizing him

And he says what is this conversation that you are holding with each other as you walk and they stood still looking sad

Then one of them named Cleopas answered him Are you the only visitor to Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?

And he said to them what things and they said to him concerning Jesus of Nazareth a man who is mighty indeed in word before God and all the people and how our chief priests and rulers delivered him up to be condemned to death and Crucified him, but we had hoped that he was the one to redeem

Israel. Yes And beside all this it is now the third day since these things happened Moreover some women of our company amazed us

They were at the tomb early in the morning and when they did not find his body that came back saying that they had seen

A vision of angels who said that he was alive some of those who were with us went to the tomb and they found it just as the women it said they

Did not see and he said to them Oh foolish ones and slow of heart to believe

All that the prophets have spoken Was it not necessary that Christ should suffer these things and enter in his glory?

in the scripture says in beginning with Moses and All the prophets he interpreted to them all the scriptures

What the things concerning himself? From beginning to end it's about Jesus That's a good point club because you look at book of Revelation specifically

It's the revelation of Jesus Christ, but we need not confine the understanding of the revelation of Jesus Christ to one book the entirety of scripture is

We talk about two types of revelation in Christianity. There's natural revelate our natural

Revelation and sense of what you can see the created order, but specific in that God has revealed himself in his word and of course in the incarnation now pouring of the

Spirit and his created order, but the entirety of scripture as a Consistent whole the word w -h -o -l -e a whole and in a whole is a revelation of the

Redeemer So I'm like how you brought that out I Still will stay with you

Andy because I know that you had an interest in this next question. We would we know what it's

We've we've learned what it's about We've got some we're beginning to grow some confidence in Scripture and God's Word.

We know why we call it God's Word But there's so many versions out there What which version do

I choose? and And going off tradition here Should I stick with the

KJV only Is it okay to go with other versions? Take it take it away

Andy if someone says to you should I stick with the KJV they've just assumed

That the KJV is the standard there was a debate with dr. White and all the gentleman's name escapes my name but it was overseas and Next time someone's talking

I'll look it up and find the guy's name, but Suffice to say for my answer. He kept you know, I believe was

Jack Mormon passion Jack I don't think that names come to mind But his whole presentation was you know, when you have a standard you have a standard you have a standard you have a standard dr.

White said you haven't established that that's the standard to begin with and so The whole premise of King James only ism is built on something that has never truly been established to begin with So when we talk about versions once again

Why do we have so many translations it's very simple money Every publisher and look

I'm not saying These people have evil intentions. I'm not saying that they're all about the money

I'm not saying it was solely about I'm pretty sure there were really good intentions involved a lot of I Personally, I'm thankful for many of the translations and many of the style of ESV study

Bible I have a John MacArthur of study Bible in the New American Standard So I'm thankful for a lot of these translations that were created simply to have their own study

Bible that they could then turn around and sell and profit up of I'm an

American capitalist. I have no problem people making money So but in reality a lot of it has to do with money because you you have to be a certain percentage different to have a copyright and this that and the other so The argument in and of itself that because there's so many translations, therefore you can't

Know which one's right or wrong, right? It's not the case. So Having come out of the

King James only ism people often ask. Well, how do you know if the translation I have is okay? well, what

I always say is the I'm not going to delve too much into this because I know you have questions coming up about these things specifically, but the

Scripture was inspired in the original autographs when God breathed his word through his writers to can to write

Everything that he wanted written with no mixture of error in it It's completely true and it's completely without error and it's you know, we'll talk about things like infallible meaning

It's not just without error. It's incapable of error because of the divine author. So any translation in any any language

That faithfully engages in textual criticism Looking at the manuscript evidence

We have available to us as many people are trying to do and then in a conservative fashion through what we call formal equivalency

Meaning your aim is as much as you can to get word for word every translation uses what is called dynamic equivalency meaning

The language doesn't come over perfectly into another one So you either have to add words or use something that may be slightly different to kind of flesh out the reading even the

King James does that and So any translation that's faithful to the textual evidence that we have this does a faithful job

Translating to truly capture what the original language was saying Can be said to be the

Word of God in that language This would include New American Standard, New King James, King James English Standard, Christian Standard each translation can be judged on its own basis and its own efforts and there are certainly bad ones out there and You know if we were to do a show in the future that could get to this more in a more in -depth way

I could get into some of that but Anything you have with you that's in English that has been faithfully translated can be said to be the

Word of God Um The just very quickly. I'll say one thing about the

King James only is when I'll stop so others can chime in Many of the arguments you get is well, it's over 400 years old.

So since it's been around longer We should use it like well, it wasn't the first one translated in English. So you can use that same argument about the bishops

Geneva several others There's so many different arguments you get from it and it's all weak it's it's and I hate to say it, but when you get into the cultic form of it where And we recognize there's different levels of King James only there are people out there

They just prefer it. That's what I'm going to use. I want to use it I've never say anything it to him a pastor that only want to preach this out of it have no issue with it the issue is is when you start with a

Translation of any of any kind but specifically the King James version Alone is the

Word of God alone for English -speaking people and therefore You should only use it. And if you don't use it, you're somehow unsaved or unworthy or what?

That's the issue and that that's where I would sum it up Oh and any Andy you can answer this or anybody can answer this question and I was gonna bring up this

Because in my opinion, I think this is You brought up some of them, but I think this is one of the biggest

Arguments out there against the newer translations they add to the

Bible Or they take away they take away from the

Bible you know Instead of using the word Lord. They use the word he or some words aren't in the new new translations

They they either add or take away the new translations do so what is What is your defense against that?

Because Can I can I throw one thing in real quick and Andy not to push back on what you said

I want to I want to accent something you said you said any Translation that is faithfully

Translated accurately translated and I think that's a very important factor because there are a lot of English translations that are bad heretical translations and even passion even though they may

Include the name Jesus in God's sovereignty. He's still able to save through bad translations

But that doesn't make them right and I just want to make sure that we don't go too broad in saying every translation

Good translation and I think it's fair to to Quantify, you know those kind of things so we don't have time to do that But I think you'd be worthwhile to create a response of what would be considered a conservative good attempt at a word -for -word dynamic translation as you're saying versus paraphrase versus opinion versus Gnosticism versus Culturally relevant versus relativism or those kind of things, you know

So I just want to make sure that we're saying that clearly as a conservative we we believe in conservative fateful conversations and Translations when it comes to dealing with scripture and that's that is an absolute for us and then and then again

There are even in among those some translations that are better than others when you dive through Greek manuscripts

And understanding of that so so I just think it's important that we make that very clear

Go ahead now the goal in any translation and the goal in Doing textual criticism to take what we have available to us to determine what the correct readings were

The goal is to get to the original reading and I believe that we have the original readings in the manuscript evidence that we have

Because the number one goal is I want to know what Mark wrote. I want to know what John wrote

I want to know what Paul wrote. I want to know what Moses wrote Translations are a wonderful tool

But even more so than I desire to have a good accurate translation in my language

I want to make sure I have the words that Mark wrote John wrote etc. And so that's that's really the goal

I'm gonna piggyback on something that both of y 'all said and I want to make sure that it gets Pastor John you said it and I and I held my hand up for a second when you said it so that I could mark it in case

I didn't get a chance to I think that it is important That you you differentiate between a paraphrase and a translation because I have met people

Who seem to think that a paraphrase is a translation? And it is not it is it is called a paraphrase for a reason and I'll be honest

I don't own any I don't even know the names of all of them. I Believe the last one

I heard of anybody talking about I won't say it's called the message Paraphrase and I'm right.

Yeah, so and While I don't know

Literally anything about it. I don't know if it's even a good paraphrase. I Would ward against anybody who's listening.

I would ward against even even owning one and And treating it as a

Bible that I say that because If you put on your bookshelf, like I've got I've got all kinds of study

Bibles behind me I wouldn't want my kids coming and picking up a study Bible and then beside it as a paraphrase

And then thinking that if they're reading this paraphrase, it's the same thing as reading the Bible that is beside it I got in a lot of trouble over this issue when

I went for the the Tryout as what the I want to call it when I went to go look about taking a church in the mountains

I had a well -meaning man stand up at the back Holding a very thick very thick

King James Bible that was clearly old but it wasn't worn out because he hadn't been reading it and And he stood up and waved it because I preached out of an

NASB Bible And he said I didn't preach the Word of God I said well I Did Wow, he said, uh, the everybody knows the

King James Version is the only Word of God I said well Jesus wasn't speaking in the King's English whenever he talked on the

Sermon on the Mount So I wouldn't I wouldn't use that logic to try to differentiate between Or bring that up and then he kept on pushing it.

I said look The King James Bible is a fine Bible. I have several of them.

I love it. I think it's poetic I think it's very beautifully written and and I've got no problem with it, right? If anybody spends any amount of time talking me at all you realize that I'm not the easiest person when it comes to understanding things that I'm reading or saying so I do like to read things that I can understand a little bit better So I don't read well in public out loud.

I tend to fumble over my words why in the world would I add a hurdle to a race, you know

In any case that's a very good point. I said, uh What do you suppose our brothers in China read and he said well, they got their own

Bible. Don't even worry about them It's just sit down for you hurt yourself. I mean, you know, I mean and and I sit him down Because he was fixing to he's fixing around a different tangent all together there there are

Bibles that are older than a King James Bible as I said by Andy a minute ago and The Texas Receptus is fine, and I don't

I don't see any contradictions between the King James Bible that I've got the interlinear Bible that I've got beside it or the

ESV sitting on the table beside me or or this NASB that I do enjoy reading and there was a comment that was on my screen a second ago brother

Rob from Allen Yeah, and and he kind of brings up the

Question that I was going to say or bring up that I think is the the largest argument that's out there, you know the new translations and They take away.

They don't include so how have you guys addressed that? Yeah, so they're assuming it.

So so one thing I would say to that is if God is

God and he has promised that he'll keep his word and And How would

I imagine that somebody would be able to take it away and then pawn it off as the Word of God and Matthew 25

I was really surprised by the Rob didn't read this one 25 or 24 and 35 Right 24 35 heaven earth to pass away, but my word will remain we spent like three

Three four weeks on this one verse, right? If the whole world can pass away

But God's Word remain Who is man that he thinks he can remove it? There's a Voltaire thought he was going to remove it his house wound up becoming a print and press or something like that within the same within a hundred years.

I Have read the I've read the things online that say with this verse is missing in this verse is missing if you'll pay attention when you're reading in NASB there have been parts where I see a verse is missing and there's a marker in it

And if you're reading a digital copy and you click that marker, it will show you where the textus receptus may have a different a different word put in there, but The the lexicon that they were using to derive that translation didn't have it

But so that nobody would be left out. They would put a marker that would show that some versions might have an added an added scripture here or an added word here or maybe even a whole line here and They give you the option of reading it, but you have to be attentive when you're reading scripture

Don't just pass over and read it read it to learn don't long. We'll stop anyway Well, I think you were just in there

I think you were hitting the nail on the head Their claim is that the new translations have taken out removed words from from the

Bible which as Andy said The KJV is the Bible.

It's the standard in their opinion, but who's to say that the KJV Didn't add those verses or add those words

From the original, you know as the translations have I mean if you do any kind of study on New Testament reliability or biblical reliability, you know it was written on parchment and and parchment was from animals or from leaves and You you they had veins and And so you could mistake

I mean James White and he talks about James White James White does a good job. We'll talk about New Testament reliability and and how

Trans or copiers can make mistakes because of you know, just a vein in in the parchment and so Things could be could have been added in the

King James instead of the other way around the new translations take away You know, there's just something and John hit something a second ago you've got

Texas Receptus got the Alexandrian text and then now we have

Dead Sea Scrolls and what's amazing is the Consistency, right?

Come on now. That's exactly right the consistency of these ancient Greek texts that we literally have thousands of them

Thousands of them in the in the Reliability and the consistency of that and we'll get into that more

I'm sure when we talk about infallibility and inerrancy and all those kind of things of that nature But it goes back to what

I think Andy is the one that said it a while ago or one of you guys did About what is the standard? What what is the standard

Bible and if we're really going to be honest and go to a standard? We're gonna have to go back to original texts.

We're gonna have to go back as far as we can To to Greek text and we're gonna have to know

Greek. We're gonna have to learn Aramaic We're gonna have to learn Hebrew and we're gonna have to do due diligence

And if you don't know that which I will not consider myself a great speaker or reader of that but now we are a hundred percent as the

Bible says without excuse because there are multiple tools at the touch of our fingers that do excellent jobs at diligently explaining

That's right John that do that do excellent diligently explaining Those original meanings of what like Andy did say what

Mark said what Paul? Said and to those things and we can learn that But with that being said we do have to be honest

There are people that have had motives in translation that things have been left out in modern terms and there have been

Things that have been added in modern times to make something more palatable and that goes all the way back.

So To what I said earlier. So so it is it's it is the study to show yourself approved right providing the word and so so we're dealing with tradition over truth a lot of times we're dealing with What I affectionately love

I'm like John I grew up on the King James probably 95 % of what I memorized All the way up through college was

King James Bible So I preached from the King James Bible for 15 years of the 22 years that I've pastored, you know, so So there's there's absolutely nothing wrong with it is a good translation and I'm green and there are others that are good

Translations and so and then there's others that are bad translations And so so you need to be very careful, but also, you know, it's not an own.

It's not the only translation I Think that's a good point that we need it's a good warning

We need to be careful about words that are added or taken away But it depends on what our standard is and our standard like you said is going back to the original because you've got translations like the

New World translation where we you know, we know that it's bad because they did take away or add to To make it say what they're called theological

Background this Depends on what the standard is and that's a new thing the

Gnosticism everything even in biblical times That's right, sorry

And can I point everybody to a great resource mark what dr

Mark Ward look at Mark Ward on YouTube and you get a chance he's got video after video he and he is a

He's a major Proponent of what's called textual confidence

Him and some guys Tim Berg and Mark Montoro and Elijah Hickson They do something called the textual confidence collective man, it is so educational so encouraging to hear

What what he's teaching in particularly he's coming from the IFB. He's coming from the

IFB Perspective on King James only ism trying to you know help folks with that issue

And I'll say that is an issue because just like John Testified about that man.

I've preached in plenty of country churches, and I know exactly when my went before my wife and I got married

I got to preach at her church as a Well, yeah, I was probably not teen I guess

In Oh Lord help. I use a neat new King James and April was telling me after church.

I Was about to be burned at the stake But anyway,

Mark Ward, yeah great great resource there's no way that we're going to get through all of the questions that I have for us tonight and Brother Andy has been talking to us guys about Starting up a magazine and and the thought just hit me

Andy You know some of the some of the good or some good ideas for the articles to include in the magazine would be

Maybe the rest of the questions that we don't get to or follow up from the podcast something like that But yeah, at least we can get to tonight

These things we believe about Scripture that we hold to and some have already been mentioned.

So so Tyler let's start with you Why do we believe what do we mean by and what why do we believe?

In the inspiration of Scripture we believe in the

Inspiration of Scripture in that it is breathed out by God We read in 2nd

Timothy chapter 3 that all Scripture is quote inspired by God And when we look at that in Greek the the earliest

Greek copies we have generally say that that is Actually more closely related to breathed out in the same way that God breathed the breath of life into Adam It's a

Greek word as opposed to Hebrew, but it's that same Relations basically the Greek equivalent of what he said in Genesis in Hebrew And so we understand this inspiration in the term of God breathing out

Out his his words his words of life, so this is not just some guy with a pen this is not

People that have composed this big grand conspiracy, but that this is God at the center.

This is God moving their hands This is God telling them what to say very directly very specifically

We have 40 authors over multiple continents several centuries

Different dialects different languages different cultures different social statuses, and they're all

Putting together this this massive collection of books over again over centuries and it all lines up They didn't know each other this isn't something they could have collaborated on the only way that we could have this thing called the

Bible and have it make Sense in the end the only way it could be cohesive is if it was done by God Amen Amen well

Claude you lost your place in life. That's okay Inerrancy What what is it and why do we believe it?

Well, I think it was brother Andy said earlier if I if it wasn't I'm sorry God's incapable of error

If this is God's Word it has to be infallible. It has to be without error.

It has to be perfect and If we're being honest Nobody has been

Dissected nobody's words have been dissected as much as Jesus Christ words more people across more countries over more periods of time have spent their entire life trying to discredit him and His word whether in the

Old Testament or in the New Testament and they have Altogether failed because his words have proven themselves to be infallible and perfect That's all

I got Claude infallibility Infallibility infallibility, so Infallibility means that there as to build on what

John just said that there's no and I've lost myself on the Window here. Okay. There we are so infallibility is referring to the opposite would be fallible nature or the ability to fail and the scripture itself has proved itself able and capable of us as human beings having confidence in it simply because time and time and time and time and time

Infinity as we go on hit the Word of God has proven itself to be true

Amen pastor John Sufficiency, what is it? And why do we believe in the sufficiency of Scripture?

So sufficiency has been under attack quite a bit as a result of the arguments on infallibility and inerrancy but if we believe the

Word of God is inerrant and infallible which Just to add one comment real quick.

There's a difference between truth and precision if you will so it is inerrant and infallible in truth, and that's that that is some of the arguments about adjectives that are

You know Different from one version to another goes back to those versions and all those different kind of stuff but the fact of the matter is it's still the message of Jesus and So then now we're talking about inerrancy infallibility and sufficiency really correlates to authority

And so in the Roman culture With papal government and those kind of stuff in the

Roman Catholicism The sufficiency of Scripture then was questioned without papal authority accompanying accompanying it and so we praise

God for the Reformation and Reformed theology which Reestablished the sufficiency of Scripture.

It doesn't mean that there's not other authorities in the house of God or under God's design but it means all authorities are under the authority of Scripture because it's sufficient for all matters of truth and rebuke and doctrine and exhortation and all those things as we've already read from Timothy So so it really is sufficiency is sufficient in all matters

It is authoritative in all matters. So therefore I don't have to look to another authority.

I can look to the Word of God. Amen Brother Andy I'm going to give you the last word on any of those topics that were said and after you finish your your final thoughts if you would share the gospel with us tonight and When he when he does that when he finishes big

John, will you close us in prayer? Absolutely Absolutely. I want to revisit very quickly

Because one of the questions you asked Rob We didn't actually it got answered, but I want to take it one step further when you say that talk people talk about translations in terms of adding

Taking away, whatever typically you get that from the King James only as the same Translations have deleted verses deleted words so on so forth

First of all, they're assuming that because they're assumed as King James to argue the King James secondly

We actually and I think some of our brothers here started to hit on this too about The whole subject matter of Can we trust the

Bible all these different things is actually very good news we have the most well -tested scripture of Any work good in from antiquity and it's not even close

Not even close we have I don't know if we've gone over 6 ,000 yet, but we're somewhere in the 5 ,500 range of Manuscripts available to us.

The next closest is not even in the same universe of to add a station to scripture and so one of the greatest things that we can take comfort in that I want people to understand is that you can trust scripture because Of how

God has preserved it. He inspired it and he has preserved it not through one

English 17th century translation But through the preservation of the manuscript evidence the textual transmission of the word dr.

Dan Wallace, who is a treasure to the Christian Church taught me that If you're going to put in terms of percentage

All the Greek manuscripts that we have available to us agree with one another 98 % of the time of the 2 % where they don't agree

Less than 1 % are meaningful variants where for example the longer ending of Mark There's a section in John early on around chapter 4

There's a few places in Revelation where at the time the King James translators were working.

They had to use they didn't have things available to them in fact, the King James translators would have loved to have had what we have today and finally in terms of just the

General changes Another reason we can know it's good news that we have such great

Evidence at our disposal today is what we see with all works of antiquity but specifically with scripture is that over time the text tends to swell as Opposed to go down.

So when you look at text over time that are dated in different periods You see words actually being added over time.

You don't see them decreasing You don't see copious when they make mistakes what or if they make intentional changes, it's not taking away or adding

So for example, one of the common things that's light levity is, you know Well, the King James says

Lord Jesus Christ and yours just says Lord. Well, think about it I'm coming around and you know to the year 2000 and I say

Lord Praise the Lord and you know clock is right behind me. He says ha

I'll show everybody. I'm more spiritual dandy Jesus Christ That's all it was yeah pious copious over time through repetition

Automatic in their minds just would there's the bottom line to it and I'm gonna actually do what

Rob actually asked me to do The bottom line is there are no conspiracy theories God has preserved his word and you can trust it now

Very very quickly for the gospel just to kind of summarize that all the all of our brothers here did a wonderful job explaining very simply

Inspiration means it's the Anastos God -breathed God carried those men along as they wrote to make sure that inerrancy meaning everything they wrote was true without any mixture of error in it

Infallibility meaning it's not just that it doesn't contain error. It's Incapable of error why because ultimately has the divine author

Jesus Christ and then sufficiency soul script Torah Scripture is the final authority for the rule of faith for the

Christian meaning in your local church Your constitutions aren't aren't the authority the bylaws aren't the authority

They have no authority in your church. The pastor has no authority in your church That's right congregation has no authority in your church the

Deacons no authority Scripture Scripture is the only authority and so as we take that in transition to the gospel

Scripture tells us that we are rebel sinners We're enemies of God. We've started off this program saying and many of us said this in various forms

There are no neutral worldviews. You're you're not someone that's just sick and needs the right vitamin or the right medicine

You need a new heart Amen, you need to be changed You have rebelled against your

Creator whether you want to believe in him or not And it's amazing to me how some of the most angry atheists in the world argue against the

God. They don't even believe exists You've sinned against him and think about it and of Joel Webham of right response ministries

I watched a video of his recently where he's talking about, you know, someone says well Why would an 85 year old that's lived a pretty good moral life?

Why would they pay for their sins and for all eternity? And he says look if you walk up and slap me on the street, okay

You go up to the President of the United States and try to slap him see what happens. It's a difference

He said now imagine you're the God that created everything including the person that's slapping you in the face with their sin every day

God is perfectly just and wanting his wrath to be satisfied for that sin Here's the good news of the gospel friends and and big

John Rob many of others I have the privilege of saying this to you tonight, but many of me the rest of them have said this to The answer to every question you have in regards to salvation and redemption is

Jesus Christ Amen mediator. He's your Savior. He's the atonement for your sins.

He's the perfect sacrifice He's the incarnate one. He's perfectly holy perfectly righteous

He did what we can't do so that now we can live in the way in which he lives so if you repent of your sin and Put your full full full faith and trust in Jesus Christ as the only atonement for sin my friend

This scripture says that you have eternal life with Jesus Christ that you will spend eternity with him and have eternal life

And that's a good news. It's a good thing. It's bought and paid for it It's by the grace and mercy of God that I pray that if you're listening this night as Big John's gonna close some prayer in a minute in a minute that if you have not done that that you will seriously

Put consideration into it and do it because all of us six here. We all can attest it changed our lives

Father we come to you in Jesus name Lord so very thankful for everything that you've done for us as individuals and everything that you've done tonight

God. I pray that If anybody who takes time to listen to this that they'd be blessed by it

That they they search you out in these scriptures that they find you in these scriptures and they didn't that they find life

Lord I pray that I Pray that you bless these fellows that have spent their time. I pray that you bless their families

That you continue to move in these times. Not only that are filmed but the times that aren't film

Whether it be through messages or whether it be Before and after or on telephone calls

Lord, I I pray that you make much out of your cross through us God. Yes, I Pray that you make much have your cross to us.

I find us faithful. It's in Jesus name. I pray. Amen Thank you guys for watching the labors podcast.

Remember that Jesus is King Go live in the victory of Christ Go speak with the authority of Christ and go share the gospel of Christ.