August 13, 2018 Show with Kevin Hamilton on “Bringing the Gospel & God’s Word to the Deaf”

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister

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George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

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Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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Now, here's our host, Chris Arntzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 13th day of August 2018.

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I'm delighted to have a very unique and unusual and atypical program here on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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Today we are going to be interviewing a deaf Christian, which obviously, since this is a radio program, requires an interpreter.

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This is the first time that we have ever conducted any interview with any kind of an interpreter, and today we have as our guest

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Kevin Hamilton, biblical counselor, the first deaf person to be certified through the

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Association of Certified Biblical Counselors. He's a leader of a group of other deaf Christians preparing to become certified as biblical counselors.

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He's the North American Scripture Engagement Coordinator for the

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Deaf Bible Society, which is an organization with the mission of translating God's Word in every sign language, where he educates and trains deaf communities and ministry leaders in scripture engagement through sign language.

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He's a former basketball player in the Deaf Olympics, with many years of experience coaching both deaf and hearing athletes in basketball and soccer.

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He's also the pastor of Grace Deaf Presbyterian Church in Danville, Kentucky, and he's an overseer of Christian Life Church of the

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Deaf in Indianapolis, Indiana, and an overseer of a deaf fellowship in Richmond, Kentucky at Eastern Kentucky University.

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Deaf people watch his sermons at grace2deaf .sermon .net, through Grace2Deaf YouTube, and through Facebook live on his account.

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Today we are addressing bringing the gospel and God's Word to the deaf, and we also have, as I mentioned, as Kevin's interpreter, we have today

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Chuck Snyder, who is the pastor of the First Deaf Mennonite Church in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, and he is a certified interpreter, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome both

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Kevin Hamilton and Chuck Snyder to Iron Sharpener's Iron Radio for the very first time. God bless you both, brethren.

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Thank you very much. I'm excited to be here. And I'm excited. I've been interviewed on the radio as well.

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Did you say you've never been interviewed on the radio? Yes, that's right. Yes, and let me remind our listeners, obviously, you are going to hear many more pauses of silence during Iron Sharpener's Iron Radio than you would normally hear.

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Sometimes when I tell jokes to my guests, I get awkward pauses of silence because they don't find the things

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I said nearly as funny as I did, but this is for a different reason, obviously. This is because we are having an interpretation done via sign language by Pastor Chuck Snyder to our guest,

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Kevin Hamilton. So I hope that you will all be patient with us as we do this, which is not the norm here on this program, and I'm looking forward to this interview.

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Well, first of all, please, Kevin, tell us about your religious upbringing and the providences

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God used to bring you to Jesus Christ and to grow you in Christ. Certainly. I grew up in a non -Christian family.

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I went to events at churches from time to time, revivals and such.

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Some of my parents weren't involved in the church. As I grew up,

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I thank God that I met several deaf pastors who explained the gospel clearly in my language,

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American Sign Language. Now, my heart was not quickened by that, but I did understand what they were saying.

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Even though I was not a Christian, I joined the Fellowship of Christian Athletes in college.

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In fact, I became president of the SBA, even though I was not yet a Christian.

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Wow. Yeah, that's pretty funny. Anyway, there was one evening,

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I've used a really strange experience, but in his sovereignty, this is what he used. A friend of mine and I decided to go to a party at a bar, and we sat down at the bar and to talk.

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My friend, who was a Christian, was very upset about us going to a bar and told me that what

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I was doing was not good. It was very interesting because that night, God brought to mind everything that I've seen these deaf pastors preach in the past, and I was convicted greatly.

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That evening, I knelt down and gave my life to Christ, and that changed my life from that point forward.

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I have been walking with the Lord since that time. What's interesting is that two weeks later,

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I was asked to start teaching the Bible, which is a little bit crazy also, but a few months later,

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I went on a missions trip. It was a very quick growth on my part, and I learned through a lot of trial and error, doing some things that were good and some things that weren't so good, but God, in his goodness, led me through that, and I'm thankful.

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The point is I'm really thankful for having that gospel in my language, because if I had never seen the gospel in American Sign Language, I don't know that I would have ever had that conviction.

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Of course, God in his providence could have led me a different way, but this is the way he chose. Back to you.

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Praise God. Well, as I introduced you, you pastor a deaf church.

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Why do you prefer having a deaf church to being part of a hearing church? That's a good question.

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Now, recall that I grew up in a non -Christian family. My parents were not involved in church.

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They are now. They're believers, and I'm very excited about that. My sister is also a part of our church, so I'm grateful that that's how it's turned out.

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In a deaf church, I can see the message in my language, and I'm able to remember that.

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Oftentimes, I've been to hearing churches with an interpreter, and I don't remember anything that was said from that, and so I don't have any real benefit from it, because most of the time,

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I'm not able to understand it in a hearing church. Now, I'm very grateful for a pastor, deaf pastor, a friend of mine,

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Samuel, who discipled me during my early

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Christian life, discipled me in terms of the Bible, in terms of my family, really let me understand who

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Christ really was, and so I'm very thankful to have a deaf pastor who did that. When he left,

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I couldn't see going to a hearing church, and that was when God called me to pastor the deaf church so that the people could have the language, excuse me, have the gospel, have the preaching in their own language, which they could understand fully without having all the difficulty that they would have as a minority person, a linguistic minority in a large hearing congregation, because I'm able to so explain clearly what the

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Scripture means in a way that's very comfortable and easy for them to understand. So American Sign Language is our language, and it is our native language, and it has its own grammar, syntax, and it's basically an unusual language because it's a three -dimensional language.

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So it uses space in ways that other languages don't, and so deaf people are able to understand when the message is presented in their language, and that's really why that's best for deaf people.

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So back to you. Well, I don't want to repeat too much of the information already available for our listeners at the

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Deaf Bible Society's website, but our listeners will most likely be eager to know approximately how many used sign language every day.

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There are about 70 million deaf people around the world who use a sign language, and that is their first language.

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There are millions more people who are deaf who do not have a language.

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There are 400 million people who have some kind of hearing loss who, and I don't know how they are communicating, maybe using speech and lip reading, but of those 70 million who have a sign language have full communication, but many of them are not learning that sign language until much later in their life and have lost all of that opportunity to really learn their language as well as to receive an education.

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Those who receive, who start with American Sign Language, are able to have a better education, and so by having the

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Bible in their sign languages, they have access to it in a way that they wouldn't in a spoken or written language.

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Back to you. Well, how many different kinds of signed languages are there?

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There are close to 400 signed languages, but even getting translations into those 400 languages is quite a task.

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There are none of those 400 languages that have a complete translation of the

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Bible. Wow. None. None. My parents are deaf.

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My mother reads very well and can translate very well. English into American Sign Language, so she reads well, and I've been able to learn to read well from my mother.

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There are a lot of deaf adults who are entering education without a language, and so I got

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American Sign Language from her. A lot of people are entering into education with no language.

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They go into the schools and are now trying to learn both English and sign language at the same time, which is very difficult.

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So it takes a long time for them to be able to learn, and I can read the

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Bible and do fine with it, but still, I struggle with it because it's my second language.

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When the Bible is presented in American Sign Language, I have no struggles whatsoever. I clearly understand that, and that's true for many of my friends who are going to benefit much more from a signed language translation of the

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Bible than from a written one, and that's what Deaf Bible Society is trying to do, trying to get the gospel out to other deaf people.

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So it really fits with what I see as needed. So I've really been excited to become a part of Deaf Bible Society.

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Back to you. And forgive me if you said this already, but why are there so many signed languages?

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That's a good question. I have a question for you.

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Is English the only spoken language or written language in the world? Of course not. Then why do we have so many different spoken and written languages all over the world?

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So yes, so you see, it's the same way. I guess you actually answered your own question.

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Back to you. And you had said that there are signed languages that have no

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Bible translations at all. And excuse me again if you've already said this, but how many of these signed languages are in that category where there is no

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Bible translation? Well, there are very few that actually have that.

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Deaf Bible Society is now researching, and they are working with Bible .com

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and taking signed translations. There are actually 28 languages that have something translated into their language.

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None of them are complete Bible translations. So that leaves, what, 372 languages that don't have any translation at all.

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And that's why there are only about 2 % of the Deaf population of the world who has access to the

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Gospel and to the Scriptures. So those are people that have been neglected and are unreached.

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So the task is tremendous to reach all of these Deaf communities.

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And for many years, in many places in the world, Deaf people have received no support.

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They've just been pushed off to the side and neglected. And so those are the people who absolutely need a

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Bible translation in their language. So the Deaf Bible Society has seen that need and wants to see the

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Bible get out to more and more Deaf people around the world, because all of these people are lost without Christ.

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Back to you. Now, I'm sure a lot of my hearing listeners might be wondering, why can't

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Deaf people just read the Bible in whatever language they happen to be surrounded by, depending upon where they live?

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Well, now, I am bilingual, but a lot of people aren't.

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So let's say if I moved to Japan, I wouldn't be able to read Japanese very quickly, because my

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English would be so different from the Japanese. Any second language is hard to learn.

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If a person who speaks Spanish moves here to the United States, they struggle with learning

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English. They speak Spanish perfectly, but they struggle with English, because they have a native or a hard language.

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And it's so much easier to understand things in your heart language. Maybe I can give you a quick story, if you have time for that.

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Oh, of course. Now, I grew up Deaf. I would go into a restaurant, and I had no idea that there was music playing on the radio or news on the radio.

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I didn't overhear what people were talking about in a restaurant. I would walk in,

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I would read the menu, and that's basically all that I would, all the communication

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I would have. Now, when you, now imagine if there was a restaurant where everything was done in American Sign Language, and you walked in, and you had to try to understand what was going on in that restaurant just by watching signs.

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You'd find it overwhelming not sure. And in the same way, English can be very overwhelming to a person who has grown up not hearing

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English. So, it's very difficult. ASL is their heart language, and it works very well for them in the same way that an

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English translation works for you. For example, in, hang on, we just had a gap.

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Sorry, in Revelation, hang on just a second, Revelation chapter 8, it says that every nation and tongue will sing praises unto

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God together. Amen. And I believe that Deaf people will be one of those, one of those nations with, and one of those languages, or several of those languages, and Deaf people have their own language and have their own culture.

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And what happens is that all through history, people try to force them into the non -Deaf world, forcing

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English upon them, trying to take their language of American Sign Language, and it makes for far less understanding.

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Sorry, that was Revelation 7 verse 9. It says,

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I looked and saw a multitude from every tribe and nation and language, and I believe that that will include

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Deaf people. Back to you. Amen. I had never even thought of it before.

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Every time I heard or read that verse, I was always thinking of foreign languages, all the foreign languages of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, but I believe you're absolutely correct that if it's every tongue, that must include the languages of the

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Deaf. Right. And that's why we need to be able to preach the gospel to people in their own language, and people get excited about the gospel when they hear it in their own language or their heart language.

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And I'm living proof of that as I look back at how God saved me, and I didn't understand anything that was coming from the hearing church, and so back to you.

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Well, if you could, give us a summary of how you think things are going in the

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Deaf church here in America, both the good and the bad aspects. Well, first,

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I'm a pastor of a Deaf church in Danville, Kentucky, where I live, and we're blessed to have two

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Deaf churches in our community, but there are many Deaf people who have no churches in their area, and they want to become members of our church, and we oversee them.

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There are people in Illinois, Georgia, California, some of them are out in the country where they have no access at all to a

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Deaf church, but thankfully, the technology today allows us to stream.

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We have Facebook and YouTube and many other kinds of technology that allow people to see my preaching and allow us to get the gospel out to other people.

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But the downside of that, obviously, is the fellowship and community that those people are missing out by not having their own church.

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So the Deaf church in America is not doing well. It's not nearly as advanced as the hearing church.

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I'd say we're 20, 30 years behind the Deaf church. You know, for example, with 500 people in them, as you were with hearing churches.

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But there's still a lot of good things going on, but it could be better, especially or more so with Deaf people in other countries.

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Back to you. What motivated you to become a certified biblical counselor?

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I almost said bubblical. What motivated you to become a certified biblical counselor?

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Yes. First, I must admit that my attitude towards counselors was a bit skeptical, and I resisted the idea of counseling because I had seen a psychologist counsel, and I didn't like it, but people were telling me that biblical counseling was different.

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I went to the first ACB conference that I went to, and I was so amazed with how that worked.

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I saw that this would fit a great need in the

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Deaf community, especially in being able to bring the gospel to these people, being able to understand how

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Jesus works in their lives and helps them deal with their problems. And so I began to be able to use the

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Bible in my counseling to point people to clerks, particularly marriage counselors. There are so many broken marriages, so many mental health issues, so much abuse going on in the

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Deaf community, drug addiction, you name it. It's going on in the community.

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And where are Deaf people going to get help? They're not going to get help from psychologists.

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They're not going to get help from a hearing counselor, but they can get that from a

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Deaf person who understands their language, understands their culture, is able to read their emotions.

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An interpreter is most likely not going to be able to do that, but when

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I'm counseling, I'm counseling someone in my language who shares my language and my culture, and biblical counseling to me was just another opportunity for outreach into the

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Deaf community to see more Christians, Deaf Christians. Back to you.

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Now, as I introduced you in the beginning of the program, you are the first Deaf person to be certified through the

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Association of Certified Biblical Counselors. I'm assuming that must have created some kind of a challenge to those who are instructing you since you were the very first of your kind.

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Can you tell us something about that? Yes, and I thank

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God for the interpreters that he used in that. Nancy Snyder became certified first so that she was able to then help me do the process, and I had so much support from the organization which made it work very well.

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ACBC has been very good to us. All of their teaching and training is available in American Sign Language now.

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They supported the interpreters coming, interpreting at the conferences. The tests and all were quite a challenge, but Randy Patton, who was the director of ACBC at that time, was a wonderful, wonderful mentor to me.

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Even though we don't share a language and culture, he was there and really worked hard to support me and to help me become a better biblical counselor, and I'm so appreciative of the time that he gave to me and that the organization has given to me.

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And yes, it was a challenge, but it was worth it. But it's now given me the opportunity to train others in counseling, and it's really difficult with my schedule, pastoring, working, discipling counselors, family, etc.,

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but God is working things out. Back to you. And by the way, for listeners who may have recognized that a woman who was enormously helpful to our guest,

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Kevin Hamilton, Nancy Snyder, who was a certified biblical counselor before our guest, well, that happens to be the wife of our interpreter today,

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Chuck Snyder. And by the way, Chuck, we're looking forward to having Nancy back for a second time,

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God willing, on our program this Thursday. So I really thoroughly enjoyed interviewing her, just to let you know.

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Yes. Chuck and Nancy are just a wonderful couple.

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They have been a great support to the Deaf community. There isn't a lot of support that comes from the hearing community, and there's a lot of misunderstanding of Deaf people.

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Now, there is some pity and condescension that some people might have, but it's really different when you have hearing people who are all about empowering

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Deaf people, and Chuck and Nancy have been a big part of that. Back to you. And so, since you're having become a certified counselor through the

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Association of Certified Biblical Counselors, being the first one, how many have followed your footsteps?

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Unfortunately, none. There are six who are going through the training process right now, and there are others who are wanting to become a part of it.

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But again, they have to read a thousand pages, and for a lot of the Deaf people I work with, understanding that reading is very difficult.

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But they're going to get through it. It just takes some time. So the more that we can get that translated into American Sign Language, and the better, the more that I can work with them, the better off it's going to be.

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And we're able to do that on the Internet, with blogs.

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There are some people who don't have Deaf churches, and they can, like, read scripts of hearing preachers' sermons, but it's very different from being able to see the language.

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Because when you look at a transcript, you can see the words, but you don't see the expressions. You don't know the pastor's smile or whatever, and so we've been able to do that on the

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Internet. So that practice, or that training, is moving along, but it's just going to take some time.

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Back to you. Well, we have to go to our first commercial break right now, and if you'd like to ask questions of your own to our guest

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Kevin Hamilton about reaching the Deaf community with the Gospel and the Word of God, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com,

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Please give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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Don't go away. We'll be back with Kevin Hamilton and his interpreter, Chuck Snyder, with more of how we can reach the

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Deaf community with the Gospel and the Word of God. Hi, I'm Chris Arnson, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, here to tell you about an exciting offer from World Magazine, my trusted source for news from a

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I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the Doctor of Ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

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.nyc. Have a great day. Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here.

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As many of you know, I have been asking you for prayer every day for quite a while as Mike is going to be going in for surgery the end of next week.

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He is first going in for surgery prep on Thursday, the 23rd of August, and then he is having the open -heart surgery the first thing in the morning on August 24th.

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Lord has lovingly placed him in. But we are now back with our interview today with Kevin Hamilton.

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He is a biblical counselor, the first deaf person to be certified through the

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Association of Certified Biblical Counselors. He's a leader of a group of other deaf Christians preparing to become certified as biblical counselors.

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He's the North American Scripture Engagement Coordinator for the Deaf Bible Society, and he's also pastor of Grace Deaf Presbyterian Church in Danville, Kentucky.

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Our other guest today is his interpreter, whose voice you are hearing throughout the program.

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That's Chuck Snyder, who is pastor of the First Deaf Mennonite Church in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, and he is a certified deaf interpreter.

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Although he is a hearing individual, which would be, I'm assuming, impossible to do this radio program with him if he were not.

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Before we go on to more questions for Kevin Hamilton, Brother Chuck, it's fairly obvious why

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Kevin would want to pursue further knowledge in the signing world and to become a better help and guide to those who share his condition when it comes to the most pressing issues, the most vital issues that face us, namely our eternal lives, which depend upon our understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ and our embracing of it.

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But you are a hearing person, and so is your wife Nancy, who, as I said before,

40:13

I have interviewed, and this Thursday, God willing, is our second interview, as she has written books specifically for bringing the gospel to children and teenagers.

40:23

But why is it that you had a burden on your heart to even enter into this area of learning sign language yourself?

40:39

Chuck, this was for you, right? And I'm being

40:44

Kevin right now. Chuck's role at this point really is not going to allow him to answer any questions that you ask him, because it's just not going to work in the interpreting process.

40:56

So if you'd like to ask those questions, maybe you should get him on the radio sometime.

41:02

But right now, and I would encourage you to do so, because he has so much awareness of the

41:10

Deaf world and the interpreter's role in that world, and moves very fluidly between those two cultures.

41:20

So that'd be a great interview for you to have, but right now he can't answer your question. That's okay.

41:25

Back to you. Oh, that's quite all right. Well, let's hear more about your involvement with the

41:31

Deaf Olympics. I'm fascinated by this. Kevin? Sure.

41:43

Yeah, I have some really fond memories of that. What I really loved about being in the

41:53

Deaf Olympics was being able to... As I look back, the one thing I regret was I wasn't a Christian at the time, and couldn't take the gospel to these other countries.

42:02

But it was interesting to get together with Deaf people from all over the world, signing different languages, but we were able to have some communication because of gesturing.

42:13

Because ours is a visual language, we're better at that kind of gesturing usually than hearing people often.

42:21

I remember oftentimes talking with people. I remember having this conversation with some

42:26

Deaf Iranians who were really funny. We had basketball, of course, and we did win.

42:35

The U .S. team did win. And we traveled to other countries as well,

42:42

Turkey, and some others. It was a fantastic experience for me to be involved in the

42:49

Deaf Olympics because we had our own Deaf space. It was a place where we all felt very comfortable not having to deal with what we deal with on a daily basis in the hearing world.

43:04

So this was a great opportunity. Back to you. Great. Well, we have some listeners waiting to have their questions asked and answered by you.

43:13

We have B .B. in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and B .B.

43:18

wants to know, are many cults and false religions surpassing the

43:25

Christian church at large in their outreach to the Deaf community and to providing signers for the

43:32

Deaf congregations? Sadly, that is true.

43:42

A lot of the cults are providing materials in American Sign Language that far outstrips the church.

43:51

I go to conferences, Christian conferences, all the time and ask the Christians who are providing materials if any of their videos are even captioned.

44:02

And they aren't. And I challenge them to do so. So a lot of the Christian church is not providing materials, even captioned, let alone in American Sign Language.

44:13

But the cults are. So yeah, back to you. Great. We have

44:18

R .J. in White Plains, New York, and he asks, how would one go about hiring a reliable signer for a conference or special event?

44:35

That's the end of his question. Well, I would suggest that you contact

44:46

Chuck Snyder. I would really be the, I hate to say it, but I have to reply on interpreters all of the time.

44:54

And there are some good interpreters out there. And I've seen some wonderful interpreters out there.

45:02

But it would be good to find out from that person what church they're involved in, what their understanding of the

45:09

Bible is. And if they don't have much of an understanding of the Bible, don't have that interpret your conference.

45:15

If they do, you want to look at their background, their church involvement, to make sure that theologically they're going to be able to handle what is being taught.

45:28

So because sometimes that doesn't happen and I go to conferences and I just, I don't get any of it.

45:34

So it's also best to check with deaf people who might be coming to your conference, whether there are people that they know, they're going to be the trusted assets for you.

45:44

They know who they can trust as interpreters. There are a lot of people who call themselves interpreters and who would volunteer to do something like this and just are basically beginning signers.

45:56

And I've been to a conference like that and basically spent the whole time sleeping because I couldn't understand it.

46:03

Well, that happens even when we can hear people and understand them.

46:10

Just out of curiosity, my own question to follow up with that, and I know that this may be impossible to answer, but is there an average cost or at least a framework to to work with when it comes to hiring a signer for a special event?

46:36

I think you really need to look at your statewide deaf organization or interpreting organizations.

46:42

But most interpreters out there are making $40, $50 an hour. But I only know

46:47

Kentucky. Each state is going to be different. So just do some research to find out what people are making in the state, what it costs to have a certified interpreter come to your conference.

47:02

I work in Kentucky and I'm on the board of, was on the board of Kentucky interpreters.

47:13

And we were able to get a lot of information from the government as to what the rates are for interpreters around the country.

47:21

So there's information out there. You just need to ask around. We have

47:27

C .J. in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York. And C .J.

47:34

says, I saw a documentary that was very surprising to me. It talked about a category of deaf people that I never knew existed that are very bigoted against hearing people.

47:49

In other words, if there are deaf parents of a deaf child, they can become extremely angry at the child if they want to marry a hearing person.

47:58

And the list goes on with many different scenarios as to why these deaf people demonstrate a strong dislike, if not even hatred towards hearing people.

48:09

Have you ever experienced this group of people and how have you interacted with them when it comes to rebuking them in the love of Jesus Christ and urging them to repent?

48:26

Well, yes. If I were not a Christian, I'd probably be a part of that group. But, you know,

48:33

I love people from all different backgrounds. There are a lot of people who are angry. And a lot of them are angry because they have been overlooked.

48:41

They have been neglected. They have been squashed. They've had their language taken from them.

48:49

They have not been able to see the movies that come out.

48:55

This is a small example, but we now have open captions on movies every

49:02

Tuesday at the theater near us. But they can't go any other time. So you can only go to a movie at that time.

49:08

That's just a small example, but just multiply that by so many times of their everyday life is not having access to things.

49:18

Or they go where they need an interpreter and the doctor will say they can't afford an interpreter.

49:24

And so they are always being oppressed in that way. And the opportunities for proving themselves are so few.

49:35

If I were to apply for a job and a deaf person who could speak were to apply for a job, he'd probably get it.

49:42

So there's so much that is happening in our community. And it's a community that you have never seen, that you don't see on a regular basis.

49:52

And there are a lot of angry people in it. And that's part of what biblical counseling is doing is encouraging people to look to Christ, to change their attitude towards people.

50:04

Now those people who are angry don't have the Bible. Those people you were talking about, they don't have the Bible. They don't have

50:10

Christ. So of course they're just, they're angry.

50:16

And so we just try to encourage them, try to teach them. And obviously we can't change them.

50:23

Only God can. Back to you. Wow, that is pretty amazing that this exists.

50:31

And I have not personally encountered it myself. But we have to go to our midway break.

50:38

This is a longer than normal break because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer midway break because they air their own public service announcements and commercials during this break.

50:52

So please be patient as we take this longer than normal break. Write down questions for our guest

50:57

Kevin Hamilton on reaching the deaf community with the gospel and the word of God.

51:04

And also use this time to write down information provided by our advertisers so that you can patronize them.

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio remain on the air because we rely upon the funding of our advertisers who sponsor this program.

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So please try to patronize them as often as you can. And as I said, you'll be more successful in accomplishing that if you write down vital information provided by them and their commercials.

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Our email address if you have any questions of your own for Kevin Hamilton on reaching the deaf community with the gospel and the word of God, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

51:47

chrisarnson at gmail .com. As always, please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

51:55

USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages, God willing, with Kevin Hamilton. Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is sponsored by Harvey Cedars, a year -round

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Or go to batterydepot .com. That's batterydepot .com. James White here, co -founder of Alpha Omega Ministries and occasional guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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I'm so delighted that my friend Chris Arnzen will be heading down to Atlanta for the next G3 conference from January 17th to the 19th, 2019, where I'll be joining a very impressive lineup of speakers on the theme,

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A Biblical Understanding of Missions. Speakers include John Piper, Steve Lawson, Voti Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad Mbewe, Phil Johnson, Josh Weiss, yours truly, and many more.

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I hope you all join Chris and me for this phenomenal event. For more details, go to g3conference .com.

01:01:09

That's g3conference .com. Listening to Christian radio can be a big gamble spiritually.

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Even many of the major Christian networks that include excellent, biblically faithful teachers on their lineup, sadly often also include the worst of doctrinally dangerous heretics.

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If you are a lover of the doctrines of sovereign grace, you need not fear listening 24 hours a day to firstloveradio .org.

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They feature Christ -centered programming from Reformed pastors and teachers you can rely upon for theological soundness and biblical faithfulness, such as Dr.

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firstloveradio .org also live streams my Iron Trepans Iron Radio program daily.

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Please stick around on firstloveradio .org after Iron Trepans Iron Radio is over to continue being blessed by the unwavering proclamation of the gospel of sovereign grace.

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Spread the word about firstloveradio .org. My name is

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Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.

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I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

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It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in midtown

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Manhattan. You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc

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.nyc. They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

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If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit

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New Covenant Church, NYC. Again, their information can be found at www .ncc

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.nyc. Have a great day. Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

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I would like to introduce you to my good friends, Todd and Patty Jennings at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

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That means you can get to the good stuff faster. It also means that you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic, heretical, and otherwise faith -insulting material promoted by the secular book vendors.

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Their website is cvbbs .com. Browse the pages at ease, shop at your leisure, and purchase with confidence as Todd and Patty work in service to you, the

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That's cvbbs .com. Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

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and 4 30 p .m. Eastern Time. That's 800 -656 -0231. 800 -656 -0231.

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There is no voicemail connected to that number, so if nobody answers, call back the next day. If it is indeed a weekday between 10 a .m.

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and 4 30 p .m. Eastern Time, you can also order 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and 52 weeks of the year online at cvbbs .com,

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which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com. Please mention

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Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio, and you will receive absolutely free of charge, if you purchase $50 or more worth of merchandise, a free copy of Anger and Stress Management God's Way by Wayne Mack.

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That is a publication of PNR Publishing, Presbyterian and Reform Publishing. You'll get that free, and you'll also get free shipping on your order of $50 or more.

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And that is, if you mention Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio. Before we return to our guest,

01:06:14

Kevin Hamilton, on reaching the deaf community with the gospel and the word of God, we have some very important announcements to make.

01:06:24

First of all, coming up on September the 8th, I'm sorry,

01:06:29

September the 7th, September the 7th, Friday, September the 7th, my friend Dr. James R.

01:06:35

White of Alpha and Omega Ministries, and Michael L. Brown of the

01:06:40

FIRE School of Ministry, and also of the Line of FIRE radio program, they are going to be both lecturing at the

01:06:48

Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary's Jacksonville, Florida campus on that evening.

01:06:53

That's Friday, September 7th at 6 30 p .m. Their lecture will be titled,

01:06:59

Cross -Denominational Partnerships for the Gospel, and if you would like to attend that event, go to one of the sponsoring churches,

01:07:11

Switzerland Community Church of St. John's, Florida. Go to their website, Switzerlandcc .org,

01:07:18

Switzerlandcc .org, and they can tell you as much information as you need to know.

01:07:24

Then, on the following night, Saturday, September 8th, also at 6 30 p .m.,

01:07:30

both Dr. James R. White and Michael Brown will be debating two professing

01:07:36

Christians who are also ordained ministers, who are also advocates of homosexuality.

01:07:43

The theme will be titled, Is Homosexuality Consistent with New Testament Obedience? Once again, that's

01:07:50

Saturday, September 8th at 6 30 p .m. This will be held at the Switzerland Community Church that I just mentioned in St.

01:07:57

John's, Florida, which is a suburb of Jacksonville, Florida, and once again, for more details, go to Switzerlandcc .org,

01:08:05

Switzerlandcc for communitychurch .org. Then, coming up in November on the 9th and the 10th, the

01:08:11

Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals is having their annual Quaker Town Conference on Reform Theology. The title of the conference this year is

01:08:19

The Glory of the Cross, and the speakers include David Garner, Ray Ortlund, Richard Phillips, Timothy Gibson, and Carlton Winn.

01:08:27

This will be held, as I said, November 9th and the 10th, and the location is the Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Quaker Town, Pennsylvania.

01:08:35

If you'd like to register for this conference, go to AllianceNet .org, AllianceNet .org.

01:08:41

Then, coming up in January, from Thursday, January 17th through Saturday, January 19th, the

01:08:51

G3 Conference returns to the Georgia International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia, a suburb of Atlanta, for the

01:09:00

G3 Conference, which stands for Gospel, Grace, and Glory. The theme this year is The Mission of God, A Biblical Understanding of Missions, and I meant to say the theme in January, because that will be a different year, 2019, but it will be here before you know it.

01:09:14

Also, if you know Spanish -speaking or bilingual individuals, tell them about the

01:09:21

G3 Spanish Conference the night before, on Wednesday, January 16th. But the

01:09:27

English -speaking conference will include such speakers as Dr. James R. White, John Piper, Stephen Lawson, Vody Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad M.

01:09:37

Bayway, Tim Challies, Phil Johnson, the Executive Director of John MacArthur's ministry,

01:09:42

Grace Cheyut, Josh Bice, the Director of the G3 Conference, Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio, Stephen J.

01:09:51

Nichols, who is the President of Reformation Bible College, the college founded by the late Dr.

01:09:57

R .C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries, and many more are on that lineup. If you'd like to attend, or if you'd also like to register for your own exhibitors booth, like I will be manning there,

01:10:07

God willing, for my third year in a row, go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com.

01:10:12

I highly urge you to man an exhibitors booth at all, if at all possible, if you have a business or parachurch ministry that you would like to introduce to the crowd of between four and five thousand people that will be milling around there,

01:10:30

God willing, they are expecting that many. Perhaps even our guests today might want to have an exhibitors booth to further educate those attending there about the deaf community, but that will be held, as I said, from Thursday the 17th of January through Saturday the 19th of January.

01:10:48

Go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com. Last but not least, if you love

01:10:54

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Also you could advertise with us whatever it is that you want to promote as long as it is not competing against, militating against, or in conflict with what we believe here.

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As long as what you are promoting is compatible with what we believe in Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, you don't have to agree identically with me, you just need to be promoting something that's compatible with what we believe, then please send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

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01:12:58

And that's chrisarnson at gmail .com, put advertising in the subject line. That's also the email address where you can send in a question to our guest

01:13:04

Kevin Hamilton, who is the North America Scripture Engagement Coordinator for the

01:13:11

Deaf Bible Society, and he's pastor of the Grace Deaf Presbyterian Church in Danville, Kentucky.

01:13:17

The email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, please give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

01:13:27

U .S .A. Let's see, we have a listener in Bangor, Maine, John, who asks

01:13:35

Kevin Hamilton, when Deaf Christians read, are they exclusively reading things in the language prominent where they live, or is there actually a written sign language that uses the symbols of the hand symbols used in sign language for the

01:13:55

Deaf, and if that exists, is that just a minority of Christians that use that type of written language, or is it equal or greater than the normal written language of one's native tongue?

01:14:14

Great question. First of all, American sign language is a visual language, and it has its own rules that make it a language.

01:14:30

It is not a written language at this point. Now, there might be people working on it, but I have seen people use glosses, putting an

01:14:42

English word for each of those signs as one way of writing

01:14:48

American sign language, but that really is not writing our language. They're using

01:14:53

English words to transcribe what American sign language might be saying, so it's entirely different.

01:15:03

It's a 3D language, so there's no written form, so they do read English in America, for example.

01:15:12

So, for me as a Deaf person living in America, I have first language of American sign language and a second language, which is written

01:15:21

English, and a lot of people have that as their second language, and there's various levels of fluency in that language, but in a lot of other countries where education is not up to our standards and that people don't go on to high school just receiving an elementary education, they may not be reading and writing the language of their country at that time and are just dependent upon their sign language.

01:15:57

That's what we're praying that the Bible will get to those groups of people, and what

01:16:03

Deaf Bible Society is trying to do by getting God's Word into their sign languages so that people can see that in their sign language.

01:16:22

So, in America, I have an app on my phone that has the ASL Bible translation, what portions that are finished at this point, and there are add -ons that you can get for those apps that include the languages, other sign languages, that have partial

01:16:42

Bible translations. What we're trying to do is help those who are developing a signed language translation in their country.

01:16:51

We want to help them out, find support for them, do whatever they need to make that possible to get that out into Deaf people in their country.

01:17:04

So, you asked a question about reading the Bible. I don't really read the Bible. I view the

01:17:09

Bible might be a better way to say that, because I can view the

01:17:14

Bible in American Sign Language. Hopefully more people will get that opportunity. Back to you.

01:17:21

Let's see here, we have Ron in Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, and Ron says,

01:17:29

I have heard among the blind that very often their other senses are dramatically heightened, such as their sense of hearing, their sense of smell, and other senses where they may be more keenly aware of things around them than persons with sight, which could not normally be seen by even a seeing individual.

01:17:54

Is this the same with, on the average, with Deaf people? Do they have their vision heightened and other senses such as smell and other things strengthened as a result of their

01:18:07

Deafness? Of course, I don't mean every person, but is this a common thing amongst your community? Yes, I believe that Deaf people see more in general than hearing people do.

01:18:18

I remember seeing some statistics back in the past finding that Deaf people were much safer drivers than hearing people because of that heightened sense of sight and that dependence upon sight.

01:18:31

When hearing people are driving, sometimes they're not looking as much because they're depending on being able to hear it.

01:18:38

Since we can't hear, we're looking constantly, so if a fire truck were to come by or whatever, we would see the light flashing before they would hear it.

01:18:49

So yes, I think that we have become more sensitive in our sight and are better at seeing things.

01:18:57

For example, I know that hearing people, it really bothers them when a water faucet is dripping over and over again.

01:19:08

Well, we have something similar. When a light is flickering at all, that really bothers us because we see it so much more than hearing people do.

01:19:20

Back to you. And we have, let's see,

01:19:26

Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania, who wants to know, could your average

01:19:32

Deaf person who does not know sign language be able to successfully lip read what you are saying when you are preaching?

01:19:43

I, for one, am kind of an average Deaf person, and I've learned some lip reading, and there are some people

01:19:51

I can lip read a little bit, and some people I can't lip read at all. Lip reading is not a very effective communication.

01:20:00

People have ears. People have mustaches. It makes it difficult for people to lip read what somebody else is saying.

01:20:14

So, it's not real efficient or successful. You can only lip read a small percent of what people are saying, and let me add to that.

01:20:27

If a Deaf person has no ASL and they have no

01:20:33

English, they're not going to be able to learn to lip read, but they're going to pick up ASL, American Sign Language, much quicker than hearing people will because they've learned to rely upon their eyes.

01:20:47

And there are a lot of people who lose their hearing later in life, and yeah, they struggle a lot because it's difficult to lip read, and they don't know

01:20:55

American Sign Language. Back to you. Well, there's a lesson for our theonomist friends as to why you might want to shave your and mustaches.

01:21:05

That's just a little joke there. If it makes our lip readers more difficult, if it gives them a harder time to understand people lip reading if they have a mustache or beard, that might be a good idea to shave the beard and mustache.

01:21:19

But we have, let's see here, we have

01:21:27

Christian in Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, and Christian asks, why is it that some

01:21:36

Deaf people speak even though they cannot hear what they are saying, and others exclusively use signing when they are speaking?

01:21:44

Well, some people have been trained their whole educational career to speak because it has to do with this idea of normalization.

01:21:56

That type of education wants people to be as so -called normal as hearing people, like hearing people.

01:22:05

But there's only a very small percentage of people who are successful in that method, which is not true for those who are educated in a sign language environment.

01:22:19

Yeah, it's really, I mean, I used to use my voice in class and people told me to stop it because it was really irritating and grating to them.

01:22:31

So, what I tell parents who have Deaf children is they really need to not use their voice with their kids so that their kids can learn

01:22:42

American Sign Language. But what I'm saying is that it has to do with two separate types of educational system.

01:22:49

There are also a lot of people who are hard of hearing, who hear some, and so they depend upon a hearing aid and speech, but it's very different than the

01:23:01

Deaf world, and they would feel very lost within the Deaf world. Yeah, so, back to you.

01:23:11

We have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, who asks, during a

01:23:19

Deaf worship services, is there singing using the sign language?

01:23:25

Is there ever musical accompaniment, even though the majority of people there, and perhaps even all the people there cannot hear it, what is an average worship service like other than the teaching?

01:23:39

Good question, and that varies a great deal. What I really like, and it's not what we're doing at our church right now,

01:23:48

I remember going to a large Deaf church and they had a speaker underneath the floor so the floor would vibrate to a certain rhythm, and I really liked that.

01:24:05

I think a hearing church gave them several thousand dollars to be able to make that happen. That kind of would be ideal for me, but it's not happening in too many

01:24:15

Deaf churches. Some Deaf churches, you have people who are very signed at signing songs, and they do it in a lot of different ways.

01:24:27

Some sign basically following the English version or use a song on a tape of a song in order to do that.

01:24:38

There's a lot of different ways that they worship. I also like having a drum and worship.

01:24:44

We often have a drum and worship which has a beat which allows people to be on the same beat in everything that they're signing.

01:24:52

So you see a lot of vibration. We certainly don't have a piano or organ in our churches.

01:24:58

Back to you. Perhaps the listener primarily meant the question about a piano or something in the event that they were hearing people in the congregation as well, such as even our translator here today.

01:25:13

Let's see here. We have Bobby in Hartsdale, New York, who has a question.

01:25:24

Bobby says, Are there heroes of the Christian faith that we should be aware of who were

01:25:31

Deaf? And I was wondering, do you know anything about the theology embraced by Helen Keller, if any at all?

01:25:42

Yeah, good question. Andrew Foster is a real hero. He started

01:25:47

Deaf mission work in Africa, and that's why a lot of Deaf people in Africa sign

01:25:58

American Sign Language, because it was started by an American Deaf missionary.

01:26:05

And he started a lot of schools in Africa, and so we see a lot happening there.

01:26:12

As for Helen Keller, I don't know anything about her. I know about her being

01:26:17

DeafBlind and something of her life, and I know nothing at all about her theology or beliefs.

01:26:25

But Andrew Foster is a real hero of the faith, and we all honor him.

01:26:31

He's a graduate of Gallaudet University and became a missionary. Great man. And he influenced so many

01:26:37

Deaf Christians in Africa, and we're working with some of them now with the goal of getting the

01:26:45

Bible out in their language. Back to you. Let's see here.

01:26:53

We have an anonymous listener who asks, what is the most highly recommended place to be trained in sign language for a hearing person?

01:27:09

Well, of course hearing people can learn American Sign Language, and they're sometimes limited in how far they can go in learning the language.

01:27:21

There's a variety. There are other people who learn very easily. The best thing is to find a college near you that has an

01:27:28

American Sign Language program. There are community American Sign Language classes.

01:27:34

Some of them are good and some of them aren't, so I can't know whether those would be good to go to or not, but I would say finding a

01:27:40

Deaf teacher in an ASL program at a college, and if you're absolutely stuck and there are no schools, find out where there are

01:27:51

Deaf events. Get involved with the Deaf club or Deaf events. Eat with Deaf people, drink with Deaf people, and learn from them.

01:27:59

Back to you. Well, we have to go to our final break right now. This is going to be a shorter break than the last one, so if you have a question for our guest

01:28:08

Kevin Hamilton about reaching the Deaf community with the Gospel and the Word of God, please do so now.

01:28:15

Please send it in now because we're rapidly running out of time. Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:28:21

chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away, God willing, we'll be right back after these messages with more of Kevin Hamilton and our discussion on reaching the

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Spread the word about firstloveradio .org. Welcome back.

01:39:08

This is Chris Arnzen, and this is our final 20 minutes of our interview today with Kevin Hamilton.

01:39:15

We are discussing reaching the deaf community with the gospel of Jesus Christ. And if you'd like to ask us a question, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

01:39:25

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Please give us at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

01:39:36

USA. We have Robert in Westchester County, New York, who wants to know what are the primary words of advice that you have to the hearing community of Christians in the church at large on how they can better have outreach to the deaf community?

01:40:00

Um, I think that the big thing is having, uh, using a deaf

01:40:05

Bible, using a Bible in American Sign Language, so that you can show that to deaf people that you know.

01:40:13

If you see that there is no deaf church in your area, no deaf leaders in the area, contact me, contact somebody, and we'll try to find if there's somebody near you who would be able to teach the

01:40:25

Bible to these deaf people. Getting in touch with deaf churches and deaf pastors is very important.

01:40:35

I think showing them the Bible in their language will really be helpful.

01:40:41

I think that there are so many videos available on the website there.

01:40:51

There's so much that you can find on the internet. There's 500 videos there that you can learn so much

01:40:59

So getting people in touch with all of that, I think, is what's important.

01:41:07

Grace Deaf Presbyterian Church would be more than happy to help you. You can point deaf people in the direction of our video logs and sermons, get us in touch with them so that we can share the gospel with them.

01:41:19

But just getting them hooked up with deaf Christians who know their language is important.

01:41:25

Back to you. Yes, and of course, being Reformed yourself, theologically, assuming that you would agree that we can't just refer people to any deaf ministry, we have to make sure that they are actually preaching and teaching the true gospel.

01:41:42

Not to be overly sectarian, I'm not saying that you always have to refer people to a

01:41:47

Calvinist or Reformed ministry, but don't we need to be very careful in that regard that we just don't give an open door to the cults and dangerous churches that you mentioned earlier in the program that are, even in many areas, exceeding the evangelical church at large in the area of outreach to the deaf.

01:42:10

Right, yes, absolutely. You do need to check that out.

01:42:16

So our church is part of a deaf Presbyterian denomination.

01:42:21

A deaf Reformed Presbyterian church. And so we have five churches at this point who are working closely together.

01:42:32

You can get in touch with one of those. There will be people who would be more than happy to help you. Back to you.

01:42:38

Oh, so that's interesting. I learned something new there. I did not know that your church was actually a part of a deaf denomination.

01:42:48

I knew it was a deaf congregation, but I didn't know. For some reason, I assumed it was a

01:42:53

PCA church, but this is specifically a deaf Reformed denomination that you are a part of.

01:43:01

Yes, exactly. Yes, so we are forming. We are churches that have been running independently, but we are now working together as a denomination.

01:43:15

And we're just a little over a year old at this point, but it has been fantastic to work with these other deaf pastors to be able to contact each other, to be able to have other resources.

01:43:33

We know when people move to a new area, we know a deaf church in that area that can help them out.

01:43:41

So that has been such a help to us and has given us much more opportunity for the gospel to be spread.

01:43:48

Thank you. We have a question from Linda in Hilltop Lakes, Texas, who asks,

01:43:56

Is there a Bible study program for the Deaf -like Bible study fellowship? Thanks for this very informative program.

01:44:03

I'm smitten that I have never thought of this area of ministry. What programs are out there that the hearing can be of greater help for the evangelization of deaf people?

01:44:18

And let's start with the first question. She says, Is there a Bible study program for the

01:44:23

Deaf -like Bible study fellowship? Not yet, but that's certainly something that can take place and we would love to see develop.

01:44:35

But just yesterday at church, I decided to use the deaf

01:44:44

Bible, the ASL version of the Bible in my sermons. So that when we read the

01:44:51

Bible, we looked up at the video screen and then we had a discussion. And I saw that having so much greater impact than all the time that we have read the scriptures together in English and then had that kind of discussion.

01:45:06

It's a much fuller, deeper discussion. And there are a group of people who are having a deaf

01:45:19

Bible study through what's called Marco Polo. Marco Polo is an app that allows you to videotape yourself, send it to somebody else, they send it back to you.

01:45:34

And we've also established a Facebook page called Bible365, which people are using for devotionals.

01:45:43

I sometimes give devotionals on that page or explain scripture to people, but it's just beginning at this point.

01:45:52

But yes, there are opportunities for deaf people to have those Bible fellowships. So it's taking off, but we're still in the beginning stages.

01:46:01

Back to you. Well, thank you, Linda. Keep listening to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in Hilltop Lakes, Texas and beyond.

01:46:08

Let me just have you clarify something. You just said that you, this past Sunday, looked at the deaf translation of the

01:46:19

Bible, and I'm assuming what you meant by that is that you were watching a video of a signer. Am I correct on that?

01:46:25

Yes, that's correct. Okay, great. Just wanted to make sure. Well, what

01:46:31

I want you to do now, before time runs out, before I go to any other listener, is

01:46:37

I would like you to have five minutes of uninterrupted time where you could unburden your heart and you could summarize for us what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today about bringing the

01:46:52

Gospel and the Word of God to the deaf. Great.

01:47:08

Well, I'm speaking today really from two positions. One is as a deaf biblical counselor, and the other for Deaf Bible Society.

01:47:18

I would pray that people would support these two organizations because they're so vitally important.

01:47:24

Deaf Bible Society is so important because it's allowing deaf people to have access to scriptures in their language.

01:47:34

This will then benefit Bible counselors who can now counsel with scripture in the language of the person they're counseling.

01:47:45

Say, often, we have struggled in counseling with giving homework because we've been giving reading homework, verses that they need to memorize, for example, in English, and they've struggled, many of them have struggled to memorize those verses.

01:48:06

Once I was able to use the ASL translation, and they put that app on their phone, and were able to get that scripture in American Sign Language, they were able to memorize that scripture very quickly, and they got it.

01:48:25

What a difference that makes. So, I want to see people exposed to the need for things in American Sign Language, for Bible in American Sign Language.

01:48:38

And so, I asked four deaf

01:48:46

Christian friends of mine if I could do a test on them. I had them read in English, and these were people who had a good

01:48:54

English reading, high English reading level, had them read something in scripture, and then explain it to me.

01:49:02

Excuse me, they would read it, put the Bible aside, and then explain it. And they had a lot of difficulty explaining that.

01:49:11

They then put a verse up in American Sign Language on video, and they watched it, and were able to have a long, long, deep, clear discussion about that, because they saw it in their heart language.

01:49:28

So, pray that more and more deaf people would have access to the

01:49:33

Bible in their language, because that is the way that they're most clearly going to understand the gospel, and come to Christ.

01:49:42

So, I'm thankful for Deaf Bible Society, and allowing me an opportunity to be part of them, because language is such a key issue.

01:49:55

There are people out there who know nothing about the Bible, know nothing about Jesus, and they don't have anything in their language to learn it.

01:50:06

So, I would say support Deaf Bible Society. Support Deaf Biblical Counseling.

01:50:13

Deaf Bible Society is not just focusing on America. They're looking at sign languages all around the world.

01:50:20

It's a huge task they're undertaking, and you could be of help supporting them in that.

01:50:27

That's my heart. Oh, wait, one more thing. There are many, many broken marriages, many mental health issues, much depression in the deaf community, and they don't have counselors who can help them.

01:50:44

So, please pray that ACBC or CCEF, Christian Counseling and Education Foundation, would be able to train deaf people, that they would be able to expose them to biblical counseling, so that those people could be trained and counsel all these people who are hurting.

01:51:06

Back to you. Thank you. Let's see here.

01:51:15

We have Johnny in West Islip, New York, who says,

01:51:22

Are there any particular fields and careers and professions where deaf people might excel more than in other areas where employers and even churches can be actively seeking out these people to hire them to make use of their gifts?

01:51:45

That's an interesting question. I mean, there are deaf people who excel in all fields, and there are jobs that are out there that deaf people never get an opportunity to have because it depends upon being able to hear.

01:52:09

So, my—sorry, there was an interpreter who didn't understand that.

01:52:17

Let me go back. So, there are people now working for the Deaf Bible Society who are doing a great job at it.

01:52:27

Deaf Bible Society has given people an opportunity for work that they couldn't have had otherwise.

01:52:38

But deaf people who have a lot of skills in what they do don't often have access to it just because they are deaf.

01:52:48

And there's very little training for deaf pastors and deaf leaders in training in theology.

01:52:58

There's DeafGo with the Southern Baptist, but it's a very small program. We have Whitfield Theological Seminary, who's now working on providing their training for deaf people, but still a very small group of people who have access to that.

01:53:12

Back to you. We have an anonymous listener who asks, Don't you think that sometimes churches may wrongly think that you are putting the cart before the horse if you were to hire a person to sign the sermons that are being preached, even though there are no deaf members or visitors in the congregation?

01:53:40

My point— Let me—that's going to take a second for me to interpret that because it's very complex.

01:53:46

Just hold the red end of the question. Sure. Well, basically, the question was, but wouldn't we already be able to invite deaf people there, knowing that there was already in place a deaf signer?

01:54:01

Okay, so I thought those two sounded the same to me.

01:54:09

I'm sorry, what was that? The two things that you set up there sounded the same to me, whether you invited—would you mind just starting the question again?

01:54:22

Yeah, sure. Basically, our listener is asking that some churches think wrongly that you are putting the cart before the horse if you hire a deaf signer to sign the sermons that are being preached, even though there are no deaf people in the congregation.

01:54:44

But the listener is also saying this would be valuable to invite deaf people to the church, knowing that you already had that in place.

01:55:00

Well, that's—you know, a lot of that's going to depend on who— well, first of all, you're right, but a lot of that's going to depend on who the interpreter is.

01:55:09

There are a lot of interpreters that are not going to draw deaf people into the church, and I think that if you have deaf people coming to church, one of the great things to do would be to encourage them to go to a place that has a deaf pastor or a deaf leader who can disciple them, as opposed to just another hearing church offering interpretation.

01:55:33

In my experience, back when I was young, I would go to a church, see the interpreter, and never come back, because so often the interpreter or the hearing person involved in the ministry among deaf people wasn't very controlling.

01:55:54

They took complete control and really did not allow deaf people to flourish.

01:56:01

So knowing who that interpreter is is important. If it's an interpreter that the deaf community trusts, then they might come, but they're not going to come just because there's somebody interpreting.

01:56:14

Well, we have one more comment from our listener, Linda, in Hilltop Lake, Texas.

01:56:21

This is a comment, not a question. She says, I know a lady who was born to two deaf parents, thus she learned sign language along with English in school.

01:56:32

Today she signs for deaf prisoners as they appeal their cases and more before a judge here in Huntsville, Texas.

01:56:41

I'm sure this is a great field for an American sign language interpreter. That was just a comment.

01:56:48

And do you have any comments to say in follow -up about what you just said? Yeah, I do have a short follow -up on that.

01:56:56

I have four children, all of whom are hearing and love them greatly.

01:57:03

And my wife is also deaf. We both come from deaf families.

01:57:09

And we have four hearing children, which is a new thing for that, for us. But they all, of course, are fluent in American sign language and English.

01:57:22

One of them has become an interpreter, and maybe I'll be working with him in the future. The other one, my second son is off to college.

01:57:32

The second one is working. My third one is off to college tomorrow. And my fourth son is still home.

01:57:39

And he's in a homeschool soccer group. And I'm coaching that team, even though it's a hearing team.

01:57:45

They have a deaf coach. But it's a bunch of wonderful Christian people right here in Kentucky.

01:57:51

And we love it. But those are what we call CODIS, children of deaf adults. They grew up bilingual in American sign language and English.

01:58:01

Back to you. Well, we are now out of time. And I want to make sure that our listeners have the websites that are relevant to you and your ministry.

01:58:09

First of all, we have the Deaf Bible Society website. It's deafbiblesociety .com, deafbiblesociety .com.

01:58:18

We also have gracetodeaf .com, gracetodeaf .com.

01:58:25

And then we have... That's my church, yeah. Yes. And for the sermons, you could go to gracetodeaf .sermon

01:58:32

.net, gracetodeaf .sermon .net. And then we also have the website for the

01:58:38

First Deaf Mennonite Church of Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Kevin is saying that it's better to use the...

01:58:44

To find those on YouTube is a better way to access those videos. Because we have like 500 videos available there.

01:58:51

Okay. And the website for First Deaf Mennonite Church in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, where Chuck Snyder, our interpreter, is pastor.

01:59:01

You could go to firstdeafmc .wordpress .com.

01:59:06

That's firstdeafmc, for Mennonite Church, .wordpress .com. I want to thank you,

01:59:14

Andy Hamilton, for being our... I'm sorry, Kevin Hamilton, for being our guest today. And I want to thank also our interpreter,

01:59:23

Chuck Snyder, without whom we could not conduct this interview. I want to thank everybody who listened today, especially those who took the time to write in questions.

01:59:32

And I hope that you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater