Dr. Jared Langshore Interview- TiL

The truth and love video ministry. We're so thankful that you're you were able to watch with us and join us. Thank you for your support. Would you continue to pray for our ministry? Would you give us a like a follow a share?

We really appreciate it. If we can pray for you for you, all you have to do is type me. We'll see that notification and we'd be glad to pray for you tonight. We have a very special guest and we're thrilled.

We're honored to have our new friend. Dr. Jared Longshore with us. We're excited to have him with us because him and his his co-workers his friends have brought up a very important topic a very important conversation that I think we all need to be having and we want to have that with him tonight and pick his brain and get some more details about this conversation and share it with you.

And so without any further ado, I want to let Jared introduce himself. Jared, go ahead and introduce yourself. If you don't mind, tell us who.

You are. Yeah, Jared Longshore married to my wife Heather and we have a big old satchel worth of children and live in Moscow, Idaho up here in the cold and recently from Florida and it was much more warm back there.

But we're up here in Moscow, Idaho. I serve Christ Church and also New Saint Andrews.

College. Jared is being very gracious because this is our second attempt. I'm just being very transparent. We're recording tonight and this is our second attempt at our introduction and he's being very gracious.

So and I want to honor Dan and Jared's time tonight. So we really appreciate him being with us and taking time to do that. So the conversation stems from an episode of Cross Politics that I was watching about two Sundays ago and in that last segment of their podcast, they were bringing about some observations that they had made concerning the last three years and what's happened in the last three years has brought to surface some inconsistencies, some deficiencies in our theology or the theology of the American Church as a whole.

And it's a conversation that I think that we really need to have is really important for many reasons and we'll get into that tonight. But there's two main reasons why I wanted to have Jared on with us to give us more detail, to give us more explanation of that conversation.

Number one, I really feel like this conversation is so important that it needs to snowball. It needs to pick up speed and it needs to grow and it needs to permeate all of our circles. We need to have this conversation with our friends, with our brothers and sisters at our local church and this conversation just needs to continue to grow and and we want to be a part of it here.

Number two, part of our goal, Dan and myself, the goal with this podcast is to reach our community and share Jesus with our community and share the truth of God's word with our community and they may not all follow or be a part of the same circles that we are on Facebook or on social media or follow the same ministries and pastors that we do.

So when we have those conversations like you guys were having the other night, some of the language may be unfamiliar, some of the concepts. So I wanted to have this conversation to make it more clear for the layman or the laywoman.

And so with that being said, let's jump right into the conversation. I've titled it tonight Addressing Exposed Theological Inconsistencies. So the first question is what has exposed theological inconsistencies?

The Chaos of the Last Three Years Exposed Doctrinal Weaknesses

The thing that.

Has exposed our shortcoming in doctrine has been the chaos of the last two or three years. We had the Black Lives Matter riots, which set cities ablaze across America. We had COVID with all sorts of governmental tyranny with all the threats against John MacArthur and Grace Church out there in California, James Coates up in Canada.

We have walked through the whirlwind here in the past two or three years and we thank God for that because it exposed where we were as Christian America and you can begin to see the missing pieces now that that storm has rolled through.

And I think that it is calming down a bit. I make no predictions that it's going to continue to calm. I just think we're all kind of like, all right, we walked through those two things and we're hopeful that things will go back to normal a little bit.

But the danger then is to actually think that everything's okay. You know, it's like a bad mix into your house and you have some people finally get up the courage to like throw them out. And we're like, all right, we threw this critical race theory, intersectionality, social justice, woke nonsense out of the house.

Everything's okay, you know, but you need like Uncle Johnny comes up and it's like, yeah, but how did he get in here? Can somebody tell me? And then it seems to me that the tendency will be, no, no, I mean, it's all good.

We all renounce critical race and intersectionality now. All of your conservative leaders of conservative institutions have had enough donors and had enough pastors kind of rattle their swords that it is not advantageous to be anywhere near social justice and the woke nonsense now.

Eric Mason wrote his book Woke Church back in the day and I'm sure it was quite popular back then and now you could write the book Not Woke Church and you would sell a bunch of copies. It's just that's where all the momentum is.

That's where everything's going and that's great, but we have to be more than not woke. You have to actually say as a pastor, why was this particular lie so tasty to so many people? And you can actually look at some of the, you look at intersectionality and you can see the lies.

Paul says in Romans 1, these people that worship the creature rather than the creator, they've exchanged the truth of God for a lie. And you can almost, people have looked so deeply into this critical race theory intersectionality stuff now, you can actually see the lie.

You can understand how they err, but then if you replace it with the corresponding truth, like what should we have been doing? You can see that we were not doing those things. And I fear that we still won't do those things.

So we'll define ourselves by what we're against and I have no problem doing so, but that's all we will do. And so it's like only playing defense. I wrote an article recently at Reformation and Revival.

It's a blog that I'm writing at, that there are kind of three different kinds of Christian communities. One of them being a separatist pietism that just kind of has divided the sacred and the secular and just doesn't even concern itself with this world at all.

The second category is a defensive evangelicalism. And these are evangelicals that love the gospel and they're going to vote Republican, but that's kind of the totality of their engagement in the world.

They're defensive, they're angry, they're all pent up, they don't know why this has happened. They wanted to go away, but they haven't actually worked out the particular doctrines that you need in the recipe so that that bad thing doesn't happen.

And they still aren't cooking that meal and they still aren't filling up their house. So it's going to be like, you know, Jesus said when the demons cast out, he goes and grabs seven other demons that are more wicked than himself and brings them back and just finds that people tidied up, they swept up and they've garnished the house for them.

And I think that's kind of the danger now is have we really learned our lesson? Why did we err in this way? What were we doing wrong that this kind of thing happened? And let's go ahead and do the right thing now so that we're ready for the next attack.

Law, Justice, and the Universal Standard of God's Word

So what would you think would or what would you say would be the nature of these inconsistencies or these deficiencies? Are they a failure to think through doctrine in relation to other doctrine or doctrine of practice or maybe a little bit of both?

Or was it just a void in our everything that our worldview as a whole that kind of led.

To all of this? Yeah, it is all of those. It is particular doctrines and doctrine in practice and worldview. And that's what makes it so crazy and such an interesting conversation. And because intersectionality, take intersectionality, take Marx's framework of haves and have-nots, bourgeoisie and proletariat.

People, you know, and like for those laymen and laywomen you're talking about, you probably, if you haven't read Votie Bauckham's book, Fault Lines, it'd be a wonderful book to get. But basically, just think, put a worldview, put glasses on that sees everything in those, in the paradigm of there's people that have stuff, there's people that don't.

That's the world, buddy. And so, but then intersectionality comes up with all sorts of categories of haves and have-nots. So you have white people that have things and black people don't and men have things and women don't and straight people have things and gay people don't and Americans have things and non-Americans don't and Christians have things and non-Christians don't.

You come up with all these categories. So, by the way, side note, we three don't have a single victim status to claim. We are the bourgeoisie all the way down the line of intersectionality and that's, you know, there you go.

But the idea of that system, once you get that system and then just to claim those victim statuses and you need to critique society such that we will get to a future state of equilibrium of equality or equity, you know, we'll get to where everybody has the same stuff and then that will be that will be the glorious utopia.

So if you take that view, that's a whole worldview. It's really fascinating. It's a whole worldview. You know, if you get rid of God and you make the creature God and then you get rid of a divine standard and you make a human standard and you get rid of the power of the Spirit and the Word of God that brings forth the promises of God that causes the kingdom of God to flourish and bud forth on the earth and you replace that with human willpower and might is that is what brings in the utopia.

If you just exchange all of the Christian things for the pagan things, and I'm using pagan as pagan or pantheism, meaning exactly what Paul says in Romans 1, we have turned from worshipping the Creator to worship the creature.

You just take all the human things, Vox Populi, Vox Dei, the voice of the people is the voice of God. So just take that and the problem is you got a bunch of Americans that don't know the difference between how we worked as a democratic republic in the past and that very statement, the voice of the people is the voice of God.

So you have conservatives even that say, you know, well, you're just supposed to do what your constituents tell you to do. Okay. Yeah, generally enough, but what happens when they tell you to go kill, you know, what happens when they tell you we want you to throw all the pastors out and not let the churches meet as the governor.

That's the voice of the people. That's your constituents, you know, you're supposed to tell your constituents to go fly a kite. There's a higher standard than just the voice of the people. And so you can see how it seeps in even to kind of American conservative thinking that is actually neglecting God.

Same thing with Constitution. We love the Constitution. Praise God for the Constitution. If we get back to the Constitution, that's going to be a really good thing. But the Constitution is a work of man.

And when you start saying, you know, there's actually a God and a law above the Constitution that informs and governs, regulates that Constitution, then even the conservatives start to go, okay, this is, yeah, this is a new thought.

We're talking, it shouldn't be a new thought, but it is for many modern conservatives. So there are all sorts of doctrines at play after giving that whole big sweep of kind of the lay of the land. I would key in on one.

One is clearly law. So the whole social justice world is not falling into the error of to each his own. There is a to each his own error, right? It's just the way somebody, to each his own. If you want to be straight and I want to be gay, to each his own.

You know, there was a man who used to say something like that, and that's an error. But social justice is not that error. Social justice does not say to each his own. I remember watching back one of Trump's addresses, maybe it was a State of the Union, and Nancy Pelosi ripped up his speech when he got done.

It was like famous. She's behind him, just tore that thing to shreds. I thought, that is not to each his own. You know, what happened to each his own, Nancy? I mean, you might not like the speech, but somebody else might have.

And here you are tearing it up, trying to make this universal axiom that this thing was horrible, you know. And that's the spirit of the age. That's the social justice. They actually have a standard. They have a law, and it's a universal law.

It's a law for all peoples. It doesn't matter if you're a Christian, doesn't matter if you're black, white, doesn't matter where you live, doesn't matter if you're in your home, doesn't matter if you're at work, doesn't matter if you're on a plane.

It doesn't matter where you are. This axiom of social justice holds this faux standard. So it's interesting. They've taken, you've taken the divine standard, and you haven't just gotten rid of it and said we'll be standard less.

No, you've replaced the divine standard with the human standard. You've replaced the true standard with a false standard. But it's universal. Okay, so that's the error. And I would say people, people bit on that.

Even, even people in the evangelical community bit on that because Christians have not been advancing God's law as the universal standard. They've not been advancing His word, His truth, His order as the universal order and standard for all peoples.

It doesn't matter where you are. So we've truncated that. And we've done all sorts of different things with it. But you could say, I think you would still find a lot of conservative Christian churches that would say, as a Christian, you have to obey the standard.

As a Christian, you have to obey God's law. They would say that. And they would even say, as a church, we have to obey God's law. God's law is fully binding here in this, in this ecclesiastical body. But if we were to walk over to City Hall, and if we were to walk over to the government schools, if we were to walk into some of these areas and say, you understand that, that all of you in here in this organization itself has to bow to King Jesus.

And I'm not talking about, you know, some Jesus you made up. I'm talking about like the Jesus of the Bible. And when we say one nation under God, we really mean it. We mean one nation under Yahweh. Like you all have to do what he says all the way down to the ground.

Every one of you and your families have to do this. And you say, well, I'm not a Christian, you know. And there's too many Christians that have been thinking that way. Well, you know, they would say, well, this standard worked for me.

Well, do you want to give it a try? And it's like, well, if you're saying things like that, I mean, there's nothing wrong with trying to be winsome and, you know, you can have in the back of your head that they have to, and you might just be an apologetical approach or something like that.

But you have to know, and we need to just start proclaiming that everybody has to bow to Jesus Christ. It doesn't matter who you are. And we've neglected that universal standard of God's law, God's word, and that left people very susceptible to buy it into a system of thought that had a universal standard, just the wrong one.

You just grew a branch off this tree that's going to lead to a second interview. We're not going to talk about it tonight, but you made me think about the conversation based on what you were just talking about the abolitionist versus Smash Mouth incrementalism.

So we part two, part two, we need to have that conversation. So here's my next question. And this is something that a statement that you made that we created this environment that produced social justice movement, BLM, woke ideology, intersectionality.

Question is, how did we create that? Can you explain that, what you meant by that?

How Christians Left Vacuums for Social Justice and Woke Ideology

Yeah, we did. We created it by giving, by leaving that vacuum for it to fill. So the law principle was one. We did not declare God's law as a universal law as the truth for everyone to acknowledge and to bow to.

And so that was one way we left the vacuum. Another way, another vacuum was the vacuum of justice. Now that sounds very close to law when I say it, but they're slightly different ideas. Social justice.

I mean, what was the infamous phrase that we heard going around all over the news? We want justice. When do we want it? Now. We want it now. You know, we're not talking about, you know, we don't want justice 10 years from now.

We don't want justice in some heavenly sky palace. We want justice right now, partner. And we want to see, we want to see the standard that we hold to, that law. We want to see it enforced. We want to see it come to fruition.

We want to see the nations obey all that we command. They had their own Matthew 28, you know, the false standard, and then they were serious about seeing it come to fruition. And Christians have not put together that we actually are to do justice in that way, except we're supposed to see the true standard come to fruition all around us.

And again, this is where I think conservatives left the door open because the sense was, well, yes, you should embody the law of God as an individual Christian. And even in your home, you should obey God.

And, you know, you should have your homes well ordered. And in the church, we want to see justice done. We want to see the right thing being actualized in the way that we're living. But we didn't have the sense that it was that Jesus tells us to have in Matthew 28.

That Matthew 28 is not simply about going making converts. You know, it's not just about going and getting people to say the Lord's prayer or walk an aisle. Or even if you're more of the Reformed line, I see Calvin hanging out there on the computer.

You're not just supposed to confess faith in Christ, you know, that is the beginning. Be born again. Be born again. You must be born again. You must call upon the name of the Lord and be saved. But what does Matthew 28 says?

Say, Jesus told us to go into all the world, make disciples, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all I have commanded. That we're actually supposed to teach the nations to obey Christ, to obey all of Christ.

And that's justice. That's the idea of taking the standard and actually orienting yourself toward that end, praying it like God sanctify and by sanctify, I mean, bring into conformity to Christ all of these people in this whole town.

Do this for me. May justice be something that I do as I'm brought into conformity to Christ and do this for my family and do this for our church and do this for our town, do this for our county, do this for our state, do this for our world.

We weren't thinking that way. The evangelical world in America was mainly about getting people justified. We would pray hard and fervently to get people justified and thanks be to God for doing that. But we didn't have this understanding of sanctification.

We didn't have this understanding of actually seeing our society conform to the image of Christ. Now, what's interesting is you did have that in the Young Restless and Reformed movement and the whole New Calvinism and this going back a decade or two now.

There were those who wanted to do that. There were those who went out into cities and, you know, there was Chris Tomlins, you're the God of the city, you're the king of these people, you're the world being of this nation, all that.

And so they actually had that impulse to actually see justice done, to see people morally brought into conformity with Christ. The problem is they didn't have the standard. They didn't have the first error that I was just talking about last go-round.

They lost that law and therefore they fell into the social justice that we see. So that's another way. We leave the vacuum because we're not actually people. People wanted something that related to their lives.

They wanted something that was concerned with morality and this earth that they're living on. And Christians were not actually giving them that. They weren't giving them a law that was to be lived out every day.

And so they bought the fake.

The Corporate Identity of the Covenant Community

So can I ask you to define who we are? You say we a lot. And the reason why I ask that is it seems like there's going to be some of we who have erred in different ways. So how would that affect moving forward as we try to address our inconsistencies, our different shortcomings from either the world and its standard or even brothers or sisters who may have erred and even erred greatly?

So how would we define and point in the right direction to try to address these issues?

So first of all, I'd say what I mean by we is determined by context. And I say we at different times and I mean different people. I don't have a universal definition, but I very often mean the covenant community by which I mean Christians.

When I'm using we, very often I mean Christians. Hey, these people that have claimed the name of Christ, these people that have been baptized, this body, and very often I mean it in the American context.

I'm thinking of our nation and I'm thinking all the Saints in America. And I think it's important to speak that way and to think that way because I think another problem that we have is a hyper individualism to where we actually don't get the significance of group identity.

That's another error of intersectionality that people bit because we didn't have it. We had a whole bunch of individuals living for Jesus, right? You know, we have this idea of I'm a pilgrim on the highway and thanks be to God for John Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress.

It's like best book ever. So you should go buy 10 copies and read them all twice. But that's kind of the vision for our Christian life is I the individual on my way to heaven. And that's totally a biblical theme and a right thing.

It's just not the only thing. And so what do we think the kingdom of God actually coming on earth as it is in heaven, as the Lord's Prayer says. And you start to say, okay, well, what is that kingdom of God?

Well, this is the people of God. So certain confessional traditions speak of the visible church. These people that are baptized, these people that are at the Lord's table, these people that are marked and marked out by God and are a real entity in the world.

Not just the invisible church, right? Not just that. Not just the, well, we're with John Calvin and Martin Luther. Yes. Yeah. All the individual saints. We can think of that way. The elect. But we're talking about this visible entity on earth, the church militant on earth.

Here we are marked out and using that plural we is something that we desperately need to do. It's one of the truths we need if we're going to guard against what's coming next. And again, we didn't have that.

And people know that they're not just singularities walking around on earth and they bit into false identities. So find your, here's your people, white people. Here's your people, black people. Here's your people, men.

Here's your people, gay, straight, whatever it is. We start to use those categories. Some of them are actually realities and some of them are just, you know, made up nonsense. But the idea of this corporate entity was another thing that we missed that I think we need to recover.

And then the response is interesting. So as you said, there are people that messed up in different ways. And so I'm not saying that we should only have the plural we going on. There are individuals who really messed up and there are individuals who toyed around with it.

And then there are individuals who really stood strong. But I think it would be wrong to neglect the we and just start pointing fingers right now. Like now's the time to have that plural operating and saying some of y 'all messed with it too long.

And now you're not messing with it anymore. And we're glad and welcome. Welcome. We love you. And let's let's move forward. Let's talk about how we move forward. So we need that kind of corporate people of God operating right now while not pulling any any loving brotherly punches about individuals that really screwed things up.

Sure. The reason why I thought it was so critical that we identify through the we is is because we need we I need to take ownership. My neighbor needs to take ownership. The person beside me in the pew needs to take ownership.

Just speaking on my experience in the Southern Baptist Church, there's been a the mindset that that's so rampant for so long is the role of the pastor is to be the evangelist to be the missionary. And so I don't have to worry about those things.

That's the role of my pastor. He's going to take care of all those outreach ministries that that I don't have to do. You know, I can live my life. And so I think that that type of mindset is carries over into all these other aspects.

I don't I don't need to worry that this is somebody else's job. This is somebody else's responsibility is the you know, the greater SPC the greater this denomination that whatever and we we fail to look at ourselves and our ownership in it and our responsibility in it and and how we can be a strengthening help to our churches in having this robust theology that that closes those gap and as you were talking about the social justice movement and their their mantra, you know, justice.

We want justice. We want to now I was thinking about we're on such total opposite paths with those folks because I was thinking about what what their prayer would be compared to the prayer that the Lord gave us, you know, my kingdom come my will be done is their prayer and their path as opposed to our prayer that that kingdom come and that will be done and that that's what you were leading me to think about in your as you're speaking there.

So our next question is we've talked about these social issues and you brought up how COVID has been a part of the past several years. So how did COVID expose theological inconsistencies?

COVID, Governmental Tyranny, and the Loss of Biblical Categories

Yeah. Wow. The biggest one was certainly the tyranny but it all it so there's a there's a tyranny issue that came up with government particular something a shortcoming in our theology of government was a massive one but also a materialism.

So like the Marxist materialistic worldview that was so evidence in Black Lives Matter riots and and intersectionality all of that it also that same materialism popped up and hit some conservatives people that wouldn't be down with BLM and wouldn't be down with CRTI but it hit them on the code front because the CDC became you know, the voice of God.

I mean it was CDC CDC how many pastors said, you know, we checked with the CDC. That's what CDC said to do. We're going to do it, you know, or how many of them maybe they didn't say that but they at least they at least went to it and that was the primary source and that's the things that CDC has done are insane.

I mean the things that they have the like all sorts of crazy woken the stuff going on there. So I remember telling telling our people when everything was happening. We thank God for modern medicine praise be to God for all of that and all of that is to be received as a gift directly from God's hand.

And if you you know, if you don't understand how amazing it is that we have modern medicine and you know, go read a few Puritan biographies and see how many children died and you'll know real quick how to be thankful.

In addition to that we have to recover the the distinction but not the separation between Heaven and Earth between spiritual reality and physical reality. So on the level of cutting a worldview ontology kind of things nature of reality.

We were short on that. So I remember telling our people I just want you to keep in mind that you know, once a plague stopped in the Bible because God told an angel to stop killing people. And just like okay.

All right. Okay. Yeah. So keep factor that into the equation when you see people like OD and on the CDC. This is the world that we live in. We live in a world where angels kill people and it comes out as pestilence.

And so this enchanted world and Glen Sunshine gave a message a couple fight left feasts ago. I don't think it was the last one. Maybe the one before on an enchanted world and it was just remarkable to me.

It was wonderful. And it was it. I think that would that would be some background to how we came up bad on the CDs on the on the covid issue. And then you just have straight governmental tyranny where I alluded to earlier.

We everybody was talking about Romans 13. And I thought it was so interesting because I'm like you're all citing Romans 13 and saying that we should submit to government and Romans 13 is the very text that says that that governor is a minister of God.

And and I was like, we'll just think about it for a minute. If he's a minister of God, you know, if he's a servant of God, do servants have to obey their masters? Answers answers. Yes. Does that mean Gavin Newsom, the governor of California has to obey his master is his master Jesus Christ.

Yes, his master is Jesus Christ. Okay. What if he's not a Christian? What if he's not a born-again Christian? What if he's not a baptized Christian? What if he's never been anywhere near Christianity?

Is Jesus Christ still his master and does he still have to obey him? The answer is yes. He is a minister of Yahweh. And so we didn't have a category for that, right? Because of our shortcoming in worldview.

It's like, well, if he's a Christian then Jesus would be his Lord. If it wasn't a Christian, then Jesus wouldn't be his Lord. But we had no context for a man who is not regenerate actually having God as his master having to obey him in his station, in his office that he actually has to consider what God has said to him.

And God has actually said things to him. It's not just a matter of, oh yeah, he has to obey God, but God hasn't really told him anything about how to govern California. No, God's told him how to govern California.

Now, you know, you can find all sorts of little intricate laws and details that, you know, God has not told him exactly what to do at eight o 'clock on Tuesday. But he has revealed to him far more than we let on in the Christian world.

And if you start to talk too much about it, you know, people start to get worried about the big bad theonomy thing. And, you know, we don't see how foolish it is. It's just how we are stumbling over ourselves and we are slaughtering children.

And then you have a Christian conservative community that's worried about theonomy when we are slaughtering more innocents than Adolf Hitler ever did. So, yes, we need to come back and say, what does God actually require of of our political leaders, of our civil leaders?

And what is the role of general revelation in that? What is the role of special revelation in that? And we didn't have any of those things going on. So I think the liberty of conscience doctrine is huge.

It's in multiple historical confessions and beginning to think when James Coates went into prison because of a statute advanced by, I still remember the woman's name. It's Dina Hinshaw. She was the she was the health director or something at the time who had established that law that was contrary to God's revelation.

And James Coates did the right thing by saying, I've got to obey God, not man. I've got to obey Yahweh, not Dina Hinshaw. When he went in, he was doing exactly the right thing. And if you take some time with liberty of conscience doctrine, consider it in the confessions.

It's really fascinating. It shows that God's law is over man's law. And the case with James Coates opened that box for us where you had to choose a side. Either James was wrong about the Bible and needed to submit to Dina Hinshaw or he was right about the Bible and could not submit to Dina Hinshaw.

And you were just left in that situation of having to determine how you were going to understand that one. So that's some of our errors on COVID.

The Danger of Putting Trust in Man Instead of God

So what happens if we just fail to address these deficiencies and inconsistencies? Like what happens if we keep on going down the road and we don't pull over to fix the thumping going off underneath the car?

We just turn the radio up and keep on driving. Yeah.

Yeah, we shouldn't be surprised at all with that cyclical pattern. It's exactly what happened in Scripture, right? You see judgment comes and oh, we, you know, we'll fix it. We'll get it right. But then you haven't actually done it and more is going to come.

But when the initial judgment lets up, everybody can look around and start to feel like everything's good, like everything's okay. You know, it's all settled down now and you can even fly on a certain airline now and not wear a mask and all of that kind of stuff.

But even if you start going down that line, you're going to have conservative Christians that are anti-woke that are going to say, well, yeah, but they're going to come with tyranny again. But then the solutions that that conservative community is going to offer are not going to be the doctrinal ones that we need.

So I think there's a number of areas that could happen. I think there could be a Christless conservative increase in a defensive evangelicalism increase where there are people who rise up that don't want to take it anymore.

They don't want to deal with it anymore. And they're going to want somebody with some backbone and that person will step up. You know, there will be such people and the tendency will be to put trust in man on the conservative side of things, right?

And the problem is that's always the we need to vote. We need to vote right. We all need to do that. We need to trust God and vote right. We need to trust God and use the means that he has supplied. But I think a danger that is going to come if we don't get the doctrines right, if we don't get to deal with God, then we're going to end up putting our trust in man, which is the fundamental error of everything that we're against, of everything that we're concerned about with the social justice stuff.