John MacArthur, the Law of God, & The Boot

Non -rockabodas must stop. I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it

Are you gonna bark all day, little doggie, or are you gonna bite? We're being delusional. Delusional?

Yeah, delusional is okay in your worldview. I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional. You don't chastise pigs for being delusional.

So you calling me delusional using your worldview is perfectly okay. It doesn't really hurt. It's hung up on me!

YES! What? What? Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men.

The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men lauding them for their courage.

Go into all the world and make disciples. Not go into the world and make buddies. Not to make brosives.

Don't go into the world and make homies. Disciples. I got a bit of a jiggle neck.

That's a joke, pastor. When we have the real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not.

Behold my servant whom I uphold, my chosen in whom my soul delights.

I have put my spirit upon him. He will bring forth justice to the nations.

He will not cry aloud or lift up his voice or make it heard in the street. A bruised reed he will not break and a faintly burning wick he will not quench.

He will faithfully bring forth justice. He will not grow faint or be discouraged till he has established justice in the earth and the coastlands wait for his law.

I love that verse. Welcome everybody to Apologia Radio. You can get more at ApologiaStudios .com

That's A -P -O -L -O -G -I -A -Studios .com ApologiaStudios .com Want to encourage everybody right now, go and maybe while you're watching this in the background, sign up for BonsonU at ApologiaStudios .com

Thank you, as we always say, to the Bonson family for entrusting us with his life's work.

All the seminary lectures, all of his church sermons, debates, all of that is going up at ApologiaStudios .com

BonsonU, it's a completely free thing as a gift from the Bonson family. All at ApologiaStudios .com

to bless you with some of the greatest education you can get theologically with apologetics, philosophy, church history, how to read the

Bible, all that stuff. It's all going up at ApologiaStudios .com There are thousands and thousands of people right now already signed up with BonsonU, getting all of that stuff just to bless their lives.

It's great for guys that are training for ministry. It's great for Bible studies and families. It's great for those who want to learn about how to defend their faith.

And so BonsonU, go sign up, get your free account and start getting it on.

It is awesome. Also go to ApologiaStudios .com and sign up for All Access. When you sign up for All Access, you make everything we do possible, whether it's the evangelism on the street evangelism, whether it's the debates, whether it's the stuff at the abortion mills, whatever it is, teaching ministry, everything is there because we have brothers and sisters just like you, many who have been with us since the very very beginning, who partner with us monthly.

They get access to all this additional content, whether it's ApologiaTV, the After Show, Ask Me Anything, which happens once a month live for just our

All Access partners, where you can basically log in and talk to me. And we had

Dr. White do it as well in December, November. So we have more content coming just for All Access partners and ministry very very soon.

Some very exciting stuff. So go sign up. All Access, it's all there. Very exciting things.

I want to just encourage everybody to continue to pray for this year with End Abortion Now. Go to EndAbortionNow .com

to give, help us to meet our goal. Just so you know, right now it gets more and more. It's like more and more and more.

Every week we go by it's like, oh now we have 18. We're right now working in about 18 states. We have really really strong and promising things in many of the states.

18 states are working with legislators to get bills of equal protection. That's the abolition and criminalization of abortion in that state.

And that's what we're working on right now. We have the commitments and even the bills drafted with many of these legislators.

So good stuff happening. Big praise to God. It's unprecedented right now since Roe v.

Wade, where we're at right now. And so praise God for all the brothers and sisters in Christ in the

United States of America specifically we're talking about who are working so hard. Churches working together to get this done.

Saving lives at the mill. Talking to legislators. But praise God for what he's allowing us to be a part of in all these states.

So we have some rallies coming up for bills. Fresh bills and some that are in.

But we're just trying to get things moving. Some fresh bills. Fresh bills! Come get your fresh bills.

We are going to South Carolina. We're going to Indiana. And we're going to Louisiana.

All in the month of March, beginning of April. We have stuff working on right now for Arizona. For another bill in Arizona.

So just stay tuned. Keep praying for us. And please go to endabortionnow .com to help us to meet our budget goal.

I mean 18 states. That's a lot of states. That's a lot of work. It's great. It's a big, big blessing.

But man, this is going to be a busy year. And we need you to stand with us. All glory to God for all he's doing there. So that kind of leads into Dr.

Joe Boot and everything that he has just been such a blessing to the church in and on when it comes to apologetics, when it comes to worldview, when it comes to the gospel of the kingdom, when it comes to the law of God.

If you don't know Dr. Joe Boot and the Ezra Institute, you are missing out on a lot.

Shame on you. And we mean that. Dr. Boot is one of our very favorite brothers. He is a giant in my eyes, and he is a huge gift to the church.

We really mean that. As a matter of fact, I think we've announced this before, but I'll just say it quickly.

Dr. James White is obviously an elder at our church. He's a giant of the faith. He's my teacher, our teacher, and he is such a gift to the church.

I think more public moderated debates across different worldviews worldwide than I think any

Christian apologist in history. I think I'm very confident in saying that. And such a gift to the church, written so many helpful things.

Dr. White is sometimes I watch him because we know him so well. I mean, he's such an important part of our lives.

Sometimes I watch him when he does a dividing line, and I'm like, this is insane that one person can handle all these issues and know all these things.

I mean, does he ever stop thinking is my question. And so there's just not a lot of men who are sort of in that, that have that giftedness to have the mind that he has.

That's truly a gift from God that he uses so well for the kingdom. We gave him

Mission of God. This is true. We gave him Mission of God. As a homework assignment. Yeah, basically as a homework assignment.

Dr. Joe Boot's book, Mission of God. If you don't have it, get it, get it, get it. Sell your shoes and shirt and buy the book as soon as you can.

We gave it to Dr. White. He's read, I don't even know how many books a man has read. And he was so thoroughly impacted by the book and so impressed with Dr.

Boot that he bought a bunch of copies. A crate. A crate to give away to people.

And when we were going to Canada to do some work with Dr. Boot, he made sure, make sure you get my book signed.

I've never seen James act like that. Make sure you get my book signed. Please get my book signed. Dr. White loves

Dr. Boot as well. Dr. Boot with the Ezra Institute is joining us right now on Apology Radio. Brother, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me, guys. It's a real privilege and blessing to be with you again. Absolutely, brother.

And yeah, we're glad to have you. So, here we go. Let's get into it. And it's being in set. I know.

Joe, your set is Which is his office. It's just your office, but man, it looks so distinguished and the jacket

Very British. The jacket today, Joe, is a nice touch. It is a nice touch.

Thanks, guys. Absolutely. We have to step up our game, Luke. After seeing this, we have to step up our game.

So, again, Get Mission of God. That is a must -have for your library. I'm telling you, men who are watching this right now that are like,

I just really want to grow. I really want to get deep, and I really want to have just a full -orbit understanding.

Get Mission of God. Get Mission of God. Move all the other books out of the way if they're not essential for school or church or whatever, and put that on the front of your list.

Get Mission of God as soon as you can. We're going to talk about Dr. Joe Boot's new book that he has, but before we do,

I want to give a space here. We have him for a limited time. Joe, can you help us just quickly with what's going on in Canada right now, what's going on on Sunday that's happening in churches across the country, and really,

I think, around the world. Help us to understand what are you going through and what's happening on Sunday.

Thanks, Jeff. A quick summary of that. For those that don't know, on January 7th, a draconian and really totalitarian bill,

I would describe it as the first anti -conversion bill passed in a major Western Anglo democracy went onto the books here in Canada, making so -called conversion therapy a crime.

A change was made to the criminal code, which is, of course, the heaviest stick that any government has.

Basically, what was formerly Bill C -6 and then with the election, there was a break, it was dropped, and then came back as Bill C -4.

Essentially, in the preamble to the bill, describes the

Christian view of human sexuality as a myth based on stereotypes and essentially criminalizes any practice, any service, any treatment that seeks to diminish, lessen, repress or change anybody's sense of identity or sexual desires and orientation.

Critically, the bill goes only one way. The bill does not forbid you transitioning from male to female or female to male.

It does not criminalize people being indoctrinated into homoeroticism or queer theory in the schools.

It doesn't criminalize any form of therapy or counseling that would steer somebody in that direction. All it does is criminalize a parent, pastor, counselor, therapist, anybody who would engage in any or advertise or promote to a minor or a consenting adult, to anyone, advertise to them, promote to them in any way, any service, any treatment, any therapy, any practice that would seek to repress or alter disordered, anti -normative, anti -scriptural sexual desires or gender dysphoric conditions.

It threatens anybody who falls afoul of this law for actually practicing so -called conversion therapy with up to five years in prison if you promote it or advertise it two years in prison.

The passage of the bill into law was celebrated on the 7th of January by our own

Prime Minister on Twitter. The most concerning thing, perhaps, that I should share with you gents, is that not a single person, not one

MP or senator, conservative or liberal, voted against this totalitarian bill.

And it was actually fast -tracked through the House and the Senate by the conservatives. No kidding.

So that's where we are with respect to that, the law. And so in response, the

Ezra Institute, connected as we are with groups of pastors around the country, suggested, recommended we think of doing an annual preaching campaign that on the anniversary of the bill, the

Sunday following each year, that the Church would commit to preaching on biblical sexuality, biblical identity as a form of resistance to this totalitarian legislation.

And our friends at the Liberty Coalition, an advocacy organization that was formed last year, have been heading that campaign and putting it out.

And actually it's gained not just support among churches in Canada, but much larger support actually in the

United States with many pastors picking up this desire to stand in solidarity with Canadian pastors and leaders in preaching this coming

Sunday on a biblical view of human identity and sexuality. Praise God.

Yeah, Apologia Church is joining you and that brother, Dr. James White, is preaching a sermon this Sunday on that specific subject.

And so essentially, Dr. Boot, what this is, is the criminalization of the gospel and discipleship for homosexuals in Canada.

Am I correct? Yes. This fundamentally is a criminalization of the full practice of Christianity, and it reaches right into the life of the

Church, into the pastor's vestry, into the biblical counselors' office, and demands and dictates with force of criminal law what you can and can't do with people practicing various sexual perversions that the

Bible calls us to repentance from. Think about 1 Corinthians and the specific teaching of Scripture, of the law of God, of the apostles, of the

Lord Jesus, about what marriage and human sexuality and human identity really are. To instruct on that and to instruct, counsel, and try and shape somebody's life in terms of that as a preordained end that this is

God's norm and this is what you need to conform your life to. That is the specific target of this bill, that it would criminalize any service, treatment, or practice that would be engaged in that.

So this is the criminalization of the full practice of Christianity, and it's an attempt to keep people in various rebellious lifestyles, sexual lifestyles, or attempts to alter their identity.

It seeks to reinforce that as the new norm. Effectively, it's a theological bill.

It's a religious bill to establish a neo -pagan, humanistic vision of reality upon the country by force of law, seeking to redefine the pre -political realities of male and female and normative human sexual relations.

And from a philosophical perspective, this is a great example of actually what we're going to be engaging with a bit here in the conversation, that there actually is no neutrality.

Philosophically speaking, when we're talking about worldviews, views of ethics, and a view of mankind and what we ought to be doing and what we ought not to be doing, there is no neutrality.

And this is a perfect indication of that when we talk about a government who has obviously chosen its

God and chosen its ethical system. They are not neutral because they're not saying, we make no decision on this, we have no opinion on this.

Everyone can do what they want. It's a free -for -all. No, they've made their—they have their God, and they have their ethical system, and they've determined that this ethical system over here, this sexual system over here, in terms of a biblical worldview, is not allowed.

We will not allow that perspective. We call it a crime. We think that it's morally evil to suggest these things, so we'll therefore criminalize it, which gets us to another point, too, in terms of morality.

It's an unavoidable sphere to engage in, because we talk about— when we talk about legislation, we talk about legislators, people who are there in government, they're legislating what?

They're ultimately deciding upon what are moral issues. They're saying, this is a moral ought.

We have to act on this, we have to do this, because that is the moral thing we must do. This over here is in fact immoral, and therefore we're going to criminalize it.

We're going to impose penalties and sanctions, and so it's impossible.

When we consider where we're at today, it's impossible to be neutral. It's impossible to be neutral in terms of ethics, and so what we're talking about in government, government is not neutral.

They cannot be neutral. That's an impossibility. And what they are doing is they are imposing their morality upon the populace.

They're saying, this is the new morality, you must abide by that. We think that this is over here, this is a crime. And so that gets us to this question about whether or not

Christians are supposed to be a prophetic voice in the culture to actually use the Gospel and the

Law of God, or as Joe says, the Law, L -A -W -R, the Law of God.

Are we supposed to bring that to the legislators, to point them to the rule of Christ, and to God's ultimate standards,

His objective standards that He's given to us in His Revelation? Should we be doing that?

Because so many evangelicals in the West today have so much of a different perspective than the believers not very long ago, whether you're talking about the

Huguenots, the Puritans, any of those streams and traditions that we have behind us, they had a very different perspective, a full -orbed, comprehensive view of the biblical worldview that saw all of life in every sphere under the rule of Jesus Christ.

We don't think that way often anymore, so it's typical to hear an evangelical say something like, well, we're not concerned with those earthly things.

We're concerned with the spiritual things. You know, we're not going to speak into politics because that's just, that's politics.

Jesus isn't concerned with politics. But the thing is that we have to just recognize, what are people doing in politics?

They're ruling, and they're ruling by law. They're ruling and they're saying, this is moral, this is not.

We have to act on this thing and we need to criminalize this thing. They're essentially legislating what?

Morality. And we think as Christians, we have to ask the question, and any Christian worth their salt on this, is how do you know what is ultimately good, true, lovely, beautiful, moral?

How do you know? And our answer as Christians ought to be, well, it's God's revelation of Himself.

That's how we know. God has spoken to these things. How do we know? So the question is whether the Christians should be a prophetic voice because I want to say, and this gets us right into the discussion, that because of the abandonment of culture by the

Christian church, because of the abandonment of the government and being a prophetic voice to the government, we are reaping what we sowed.

And so Canada, and you'll see this in Mission of God, is a stellar example of a nation that has this rich Christian heritage.

The vestiges, all of the old stuff of the Christian worldview is imprinted everywhere.

It's in everything, whether it's in Canada, the United States, whether it's over in Europe. It's unavoidable.

I mean, it's in the stone, even. The verses are in the stone. You can see where they were coming from when they were establishing these things.

But because we've stepped away, now it's not as though, okay, we've moved away from the

Christian worldview and the Word of God is the ultimate standard, so now we're going to go into this place of secular neutrality as though that we're really a thing.

No, listen. Having a God over your system is an unavoidable thing. You can't avoid it. And imposing a moral system is unavoidable.

And so it's not a question of whether there's going to be a God, or whether we're going to impose morality. It's a question of which

God and which system of morality. That's always the question. And so in Canada, stellar example right now, in terms of sexual ethics, that question, they've determined no, our

God says this. Our ethical system is this, so therefore we cannot accept

Christianity, the Gospel, and Christian discipleship in this area because we think that that is evil.

This is good, sexual freedom, sexual liberty, whatever you want, and this is not good.

And so I think that's where we're at right now, and I'll let you say something, Luke, and then it gets right to this question with the Daily Wire. Just a practical question,

I've been wondering, Joe, do you legitimately anticipate possibly being arrested on Sunday?

The truth is I think that that's highly unlikely. I think that what will happen for a period of time is that the law will sit on the books.

Sometimes, you know, some of the laws that have been passed in Canada in the past are what we might call sleeper laws.

They're there, ready to be activated when needed. I think that even the overreaching

Canadian state would recognize that sudden arrests of pastors for preaching on biblical sexuality would be hugely unwise.

It's not yet clear whether this law would capture preaching on biblical sexuality and directing people to prayer would be captured by the law.

I think that that would be something that the, whether preaching a series of sermons, for example, on biblical sexuality, would that be advertising or promoting conversion therapy?

In terms of the very loose definitions in the bill that you can drive a freight train through, yes, it would.

But this will doubtless be tested eventually in the courts, probably first by a therapist or a counselor who is charged with conversion therapy, or perhaps even by a pastor who has done or a

Christian counselor who's doing pastoral counseling over a period of weeks and somebody registers a complaint.

But it's going to be a major moment when the Canadian state says, right, this is the moment, let's arrest our first pastor for conversion therapy.

And I think that they certainly won't be doing that this coming Sunday. They may be trying to shut down churches or spy on pastors for having their more than 50 % in their church in Ontario capacity or even having a service in Quebec where the churches are closed and there's vaccine passports and all of that.

But they will be, the goal of this bill right now is to put a massive chill over freedom of speech and over the open practice of Christianity and Christian counseling in this area.

But I don't think it'll be long before they believe that the cultural waters are so sufficiently with them that they will try and reach directly into the church.

We shall see. You'd think that they wouldn't want to arrest pastors, but see last year.

It's happened. Exactly. Exhibit A. Exhibit A. And you know, we've already seen in the

Trinity Western Law School case that what the Supreme Court thinks about Christian liberty with regard to sexual ethics,

I don't see the courts being friendly to the church and to Christians on this. And we've seen that the Canadian state is not afraid of placing pastors in prison for holding services.

So, you know, we will see what transpires. But I think there's going to be faithful pastors, many of them, all over Canada.

I think probably several hundred churches that will be faithfully preaching on this issue this coming Sunday. Praise the

Lord. That's amazing. We'll be praying for you, brother. So that brings us to a good conversation starter.

It is a good conversation starter. There was an article in the Daily Wire, a controversial clip of Pastor John MacArthur had his critics pouncing.

Turns out it was edited. So it was a clip of Brother Dr. John MacArthur.

It was edited and somebody shared it. This edited clip got a lot of people in a tizzy.

Turns out it was edited and out of context, and so there's an article in the Daily Wire regarding that.

We wanted to zero in on a portion of the article in the Daily Wire about said clip, and it's a quote from Phil Johnson.

If you don't know who Phil Johnson is, he's Dr. John MacArthur's right -hand man. I love

Phil Johnson. I have learned so much from Phil Johnson. Just a bonus for you here.

The subject of the New Perspective on Paul is a vast subject, very important subject. Died down a bit in the last couple of years.

It had a pretty big moment. Phil Johnson's lectures on the New Perspective on Paul were some of the most helpful to me.

It was such a blessing to listen to those. So if you're in that realm trying to get into that and learn about that subject, no one better than Phil Johnson.

He really is a gift to the church. I love Phil. But he said something in the article regarding the clip, and here's what it says.

I'll give you the quote. This is Phil. He says, MacArthur is certainly not advocating the theonomic notion that Christians today should commandeer governments in order to force

Christianity on the world, Johnson told the Daily Wire. So that's interesting.

MacArthur is certainly not advocating the theonomic notion that Christians today should commandeer governments in order to force

Christianity on the world. When we read that, we were like... Which theonomy is he talking about?

Phil, brother, I love you. You're a sharper man and a great godly man.

Better than I'll ever be. I mean that. You're just amazing. But Phil, what do you mean? No theonomist would teach something like that.

I've never read anything from a theonomist that would say something even remotely like that, and I've never heard a theonomist say anything like that that's inconsistent with everything

I've ever read. So I would ask the question first to brother Phil. I would say, Phil, what book did you read where you learned that?

Like that's theonomy, because that's the opposite of anything that I would hear a theonomist say.

And so I guess we need to first do this, Joe, for those who are new to this discussion. What is theonomy?

And then we can engage a bit with Phil's quote here. Yeah. Well, of course, the word theonomy just means

God's law contrasted with autonomy, self -law. And so we would say, the theonomist would say that there is a fundamental choice, and I would say that the

Reformation or the Reformed tradition right through the Puritans and to many of the early evangelicals would have argued that there is a choice between theonomy and autonomy between our submission to the law word of God in its totality and being a law unto ourselves.

And Jeff, in your earlier monologue about the issue of sovereignty and the neutrality, you know, when we looked at something like a

Bill C -4, you see the mask torn off, the idea of neutrality, and actually what you see there is a source of sovereignty, the ultimate sovereignty being placed in the state, and behind that the divinity concept, and of course a sovereign gives law.

And that is part of the nature of government, ultimate government.

And so, of course, God, who is the ruler of all kings, first Revelation chapter 1 verse 5, he's the ruler of the kings of the earth, he gives his law.

So, theonomy just means God's law, and it's a view within Christian ethics, with a long and rich tradition in the history of the church.

It's not a political philosophy. We have to go beyond theonomy as the importance and the centrality of God's law to start developing a distinctly

Christian view of government and the state. Theonomy is a view in Christian ethics. It concerns

God's law and its abiding relevance. The Decalogue, summarized there for us in the

Ten Commandments, and then the applications of the Decalogue, which we find in what we can call case law in the

Bible, that the Apostle Paul, for example, applies multiple times. A couple of prominent examples would be his teaching to children about obeying their parents, because this is the first commandment with a promise that you may live long in the earth, he says.

So he adapts that from live long in the land to live long in the earth, and where he also applies the case law of not muzzling an ox while it treads out the grain, and he applies that law to making sure those who labor in the word of God in the church are properly paid.

We see both the Decalogue and the case law being applied. We see this affirmed in terms of its civil use, the relevance of God's law for not just our personal lives or the life of the church, but for the society as a whole in 1st

Timothy chapter 1, where Paul talks about a lawful use of the law for those who are lawbreakers, and he specifically says this is in accordance with my gospel.

So we don't make some radical artificial separation of law and gospel. That's a scholastic division that doesn't belong in a reformed understanding of God's word.

We recognize that the gospel is both blood, the covenant is both blood and law.

In fact, when you look at what the covenant is, the new covenant, Hebrews 8 and Jeremiah 31, is very clear that it's about the location of the law.

You will not say to your neighbor, know the Lord, but each will know him from the least to the greatest, because God's law is going to be written upon the heart, is the essence of that, and that's repeated in Hebrews chapter 8.

So God's covenant with us in the good news, the gospel of the new covenant involves both law and blood, as all of God's covenants have as they come to their fullness and ultimate fulfillment in the newer covenant in the blood of the

Lord Jesus Christ. So the gospel involves law and theonomy means

God's law, and giving our attention to the law word of God in the fullness of God's revelation, not just in the decalogue and in the mosaic passages and portions of decalogue and case law, but also in the wisdom literature where, for example, a king,

King Solomon, is teaching his son in the book of Proverbs about obedience to God's law, and of course in the prophets who spend their time calling

God's people back to obedience to the law of God, for which they have been being chastised and disciplined by the

Lord or have even gone into exile because of their rebellion, and God warned them, of course, even with respect to Canaan, that if they went into the land, if they were given the land and committed the same lawlessness as the

Canaanites, the land would spew them out as well, and so we see the centrality actually of God's law for the people of God right through God's revelation and right through the life of the church.

So theonomy is about honoring God's instruction, the Torah, God's law, His instruction,

His teaching for us, not as the source of life, which is in Christ and His redemptive work through the

Holy Spirit, but as the way of life. This is the way, walk in it. That's really what theonomy means.

Right, right. And that was beautiful, brother. So it's interesting, too, because we can have this discussion in terms of the law being a constituent element of the new covenant promised in the

Old Testament, and what God was going to do in the Messiah's kingdom and the blessings that He would pour out on the world with God's Torah, His instruction,

His law. Whether you look at Isaiah 42, which was the section that I read at the beginning of the show today,

God talking about He's going to establish justice in the earth, He's not going to grow faint or weary, so obviously that's a process.

It's not something that's going to drop out of history, boom, and just obliterate everything. It's a process in history of this servant who brings it about in the world, and it says the coastlands are waiting for His law.

You have the promise in Isaiah 2 of the nation streaming up to God's mountain, and then the

Torah going forth from the people of God, from Zion. You have, of course, the passages quoted from Brother Booth there when we talk about Jeremiah 31, the promise of the new covenant.

The location of the law is going to be inward, but there's all these elements of promise in the Messiah's kingdom in the

Old Testament about that coming new covenant and the kingdom He was going to establish that include the law, the law of God.

And what's interesting is you look, Joe brings it up here in his book, it's marvelous, in the mission of God you see this so much, so many examples of this, but when you look in historic

Christian tradition, what we're describing here, what we're talking about here is something that is very much in the stream of the

Puritans, it's very much in the stream of the Huguenots, and the Christians that were here not very long ago in the communities that they established and what they were pointing to.

I always point it out because I think it is a perfect example in the formation of just this nation.

I want you to hear this because it's an important thing to consider when we talk about what we're dealing with in our courts today. Our first Supreme Court Justice John Jay explicitly quotes from the case law examples in the law of God as the first Supreme Court Justice in this nation.

That's a far cry from where we're at today. And the case law system that we have today in this country was from the

Old Testament. That was the model it came from. So this idea of a theonomic view of ethics, a

Christian theonomic view of ethics in terms of the responsibility of government and order and all those things isn't something that arose in the last 30 years or 50 years or 100 years.

This is an historic Christian tradition. You're going to find it going all the way back, back, back, back, back, because, here it is, the

Great Commission says that Christ has all authority this is 2 ,000 years ago today in heaven and on earth and on that basis go, therefore go and do what to the nations?

Disciple the nations, baptize them and then do what afterwards? Teach them to observe all that I have commanded you.

So you teach them to obey. So the Great Commission has always been when the nations disciple them under the authority of Christ, he has that rule and authority today, and teach them to obey

Jesus. And so this isn't a controversial perspective. However, very important, in this quote from Brother Phil he says,

I'm going to make sure I quote it correctly here, because it's important, he says MacArthur is certainly not advocating the theonomic notion that Christians today should commandeer governments in order to force

Christianity in the world. And when I read that I thought to myself, that is the opposite.

It's the opposite of everything I've ever heard any theonomic Christian say.

For us it is always about the gospel. You proclaim the excellencies of Jesus, the lordship of Christ, you proclaim his gospel, what he accomplished in his perfect life and death and resurrection, you proclaim that to the world, you call the world to repent and to believe.

And that's the message. And through that God uses that, uses the power of the gospel to actually bring people to life, to change their hearts and their minds, and to indwell them so that now they love

God's law. Ezekiel 36 promises that God is going to, in the new covenant, he's going to put his spirit within people and he's going to cause them to observe his statutes.

That's the goal. But that goal actually gets accomplished through the prophetic ministry of the church and the proclamation of the gospel.

And the question that I always ask when people are confused about this is this, are there image bearers of God in the legislature?

Yes. Good. Is Jesus the ruler of the kings of the earth today?

As is stated in Matthew 28 and Revelation chapter 1, is he the ruler of the kings of the earth today?

Yes. Are they called to obey Jesus today? Great. What is his law to them that they must yield to and repent of sin and trust in Christ for?

What is that? So does the law of Christ, does his law word, and does his gospel go to those image bearers of God in the legislature?

And if he's the ruler of the kings of the earth today, that's what's happening right now, then are they required to obey the son or they'll perish, as Psalm chapter 2 says?

Because the ends of the earth belong to Jesus, according to Psalm chapter 2, and the father warns the kings of the earth to obey the son or they'll perish.

So that's the question. Is it true or not? And this idea that the theonomic notion is that Christians should commandeer governments to impose

Christianity is the farthest thing from anything I've ever heard from anybody who says that they are theonomic in their perspective of ethics.

It's all about the gospel, but that gospel goes everywhere and every person, to every child, to every adult, to every person in the legislature, to everyone in education, to everyone in the media, it goes everywhere and the world is called to repent and believe the gospel and to obey

Jesus. What's the ultimate goal of the gospel? According to Jesus, Matthew 28, 18 -20, ultimate goal, win the nations, baptize them, and do what?

Teach them to obey. Right? That's the goal. And so how do we do that? Do we do it with avoiding governments, as though government is not obligated to obey

Jesus? They are. Do we do it by avoiding governments, thinking, well that's just a realm Jesus has nothing to do with?

That's foolish. He says all authority in heaven and earth is mine. Do we avoid the government thinking that that's actually a neutral zone where you can play neutrality?

That goes against everything Jesus taught and the scriptures teach about knowledge, about wisdom, about the authority of Christ, and in fact

Jesus says whoever is not with me is against me. If you're not with Christ, you're against Christ.

There's no neutrality with Jesus. So I want to say to brother Phil that this is not accurate, brother.

Not by any degree. It's not accurate at all. We want to see image bearers of God everywhere, including and in government, to come to Jesus and to obey him.

We would never—you can't save the world through law. Salvation is through faith in Christ alone. It's by God's grace.

It's because of his mercy. So you can't impose Christianity via law. It can only be something that God does sovereignly by his grace through the human heart.

It's what God accomplishes. So the idea that we can impose Christianity through the force of law is just not in fact the case.

It's just not true. And so I would encourage some study in this area, and I don't mean that in any way to brother

Phil to be denigrating to him or to his mind. He is a sharp, sharp man. I would encourage him studying this area, because this quote demonstrates that you don't really know this field of ethics and what theonomists actually believe, because this is just inaccurate.

And I would want someone to correct me if I had said something about Phil's perspective that was in fact not true, because we need to tell the truth.

We need to tell the truth about one another. We need to tell the truth about systems we're engaging with, because we're not getting anywhere helpful.

And in a sense, it's maligning a position, and I don't think we should be engaged in that.

So, Joe, I'll let you continue the discussion. Well, I think what you've said there is all right,

Jeff, of course. And yes, the problem, part of the issue is that these kind of expressions, these turns of phrase, have become sort of part of a kind of straw manning of the theonomic position.

And most people that I talk to who speak about it in those terms usually have not read the argument properly, or at all, and have not had any meaningful exposure to the sort of rich Puritan tradition in this area, and the work of more modern

Puritans who have drawn attention to the importance of God's law. So it's understandable that this kind of expression turns up, because it's kind of been the popular, the straw manning of the position that many pastors and many leaders would have heard who haven't had a chance perhaps to give this area sufficient attention yet.

I think one of the encouraging things is the last two or three years in particular have brought this area of cultural apologetics and of scriptural world and life view right to the front and center of the challenges facing the church.

And the fact that we can be accomplished theologians, we can be faithful pastors, we can be

Christian leaders who are really serving the Lord, and yet not have a distinctly and robust Christian world and life view with an effective cultural apologetic, because we haven't given those foundations sufficient time and attention.

Think for a moment just about the fact that the Lord Jesus himself, if you think about the calling of Israel as a nation, and you mentioned

I think Isaiah 42 there, and the coastlands waiting for his law, there was a missiological purpose to Israel's calling, that they would be a light to the nations.

It was that they would be a model that the other nations would follow. We see this in Deuteronomy 4 with specific reference to the law that God gives to Israel, that the other nations would observe, they would see, and they would say to themselves, who has a

God like this God? Who has a law like this law? And that they would be, in a sense, envious and would want to copy the example of Israel.

Now we know that in its mission mandate, you've talked about the great commission that we're to fulfill, we know that Israel as a nation failed in its mandate, and Christ is presented to us in Scripture as the true

Israelite, as the living Torah, as the truly obedient son. Out of Egypt, the

Scripture says, I have called my son. In fact, the life of Jesus, the ministry of Jesus recapitulates some of the journey of Israel, of the

Hebrews out of Egypt, and then through the waters of the Red Sea, and then to the giving of the covenant law on the mountain.

And, of course, there also the revelation of the temple about the sacrifice and the priesthood and the atonement that God is providing.

And in the Lord Jesus, out of Egypt, I have called my son, when the danger of Herod had passed and he died, and the

Scripture says he returns, and then through the waters of baptism, he goes through the water and then out into the wilderness, not for 40 years, but for 40 days.

And there he's tested, and he's confronted by Satan and by the evil one in the way that our first parents were tested, in the way that Israel was tested in the wilderness, and Jesus overcomes.

And how does he overcome? Everything he quotes is from Deuteronomy, from God's law. He overcomes with the word of God, with the law word of God.

And then he himself, when he comes back from the wilderness, goes up onto the mountain, and he expounds, he gives the law, he expounds the law of Moses.

And he accurately and faithfully refutes the false interpretations of the

Pharisees, and brings us to the fullness of the meaning of the law. And of course, he famously says there that he has not come to abolish or to destroy the law, but to fulfill it, to put it into force, to bring the full force of the law to bear, to bring it to its completion, not a punctuation mark, he said, it's going to pass till heaven and earth pass away.

So we have a full affirmation of the law in the Lord Jesus. And that's why at the Last Supper, when he says, this is my blood of the new covenant, he doesn't give a new law.

The law has already been given. There's new blood, there's a new priesthood, but the law is already given.

And we, of course, now are a priesthood after the order of Melchizedek, because Abraham himself paid a tithe to the priest king of Salem in recognition of the fact that Aaron in the loins of Abraham was not going to be, was not the ultimate priesthood, it was the priesthood of the

Lord Jesus Christ. So this is the reason we have the Great Commission then, is that we take and teach this law word to all of the nations.

Now that is not imposing God's law, that is proposing. So we teach, doesn't say go and impose on all governments the law of God.

It says that we teach, we propose, and we prophetically bear witness to the truth of God's law.

And then as you said, Jeff, then as clearly taught in terms of the kingship of Christ in Psalm 2 and Psalm 110 and Revelation 1 and so on,

Colossians 1, Ephesians 1, there is a requirement that image bearers, and the whole world is under the law of God, the

Bible is absolutely clear about that. Don't forget, the gospel only applies to people who are subject to the law of God.

There's only good news to the world because we're being redeemed from all lawlessness.

Sin is lawlessness, the Bible says. Satan is the lawless one. So if we reject the law, we reject that there's any sin and therefore any need for salvation.

So we're told to teach the law, we're told by God to make it known, it's part of the discipleship of nations, and then image bearers, kings, judges of the earth, are required by God to give attention to his law.

Remember the king of Israel was told, give attention to the law. In fact, they were required to read God's law so that they were not raised up in their hearts above the people, and that they were to remember that they weren't the ultimate sovereign, that they weren't lawgiver and judge,

God is the ultimate lawgiver, the ultimate sovereign, the ultimate judge, and that we are subject to his law, kings and commoners alike.

And that is the origin, by the way, of religious freedom and the rule of law in the western tradition.

And even the coronation oaths of Great Britain take their lead from, they're rooted in the coronation oath of people like King Solomon, this recognition of the sovereignty of God over the throne, over the governments and rules of men.

And that's what we're saying as Christians about the lordship of Christ. The reason

I think that some people respond in this misguided way, and it's well -intentioned, as you've said, and we've got tremendous respect for Phil Johnson, but we've all got things to learn,

I've got things to learn, we've all got things to learn that others can help us with, and I think this is one of them, is that because we live in a statist culture that sees the state as the ultimate sovereign, as the ultimate organizing principle, as imposing law, as a final and ultimate authority, and because we tend to think, even as Christians now, in statist terms because of the way in which our modern pagan progressive culture functions, we then think that, oh, so if Christians believe that Christ is lord and believe that his law is relevant to our lives, that it speaks with authority into our lives, that God's law has authority, that we must mean, just like the secular pagans, that our law, we just want to impose that on an unwilling people and an unwilling population.

But no, a godly people will demand, will ask for, will demand that governments, that those that rule, that those that are elected into positions of responsibility and authority, recognize that they only have legitimate authority under God, and that they will take notice of the law of God in all of their judgments and rules as they seek to positivize the principles of God's law, that they will be subject to it willingly, gladly subject to it, because it brings blessing upon the nations, and that's, you've alluded to that already, that righteousness exalts a nation, scripture says, but sin is a reproach to any people.

So if you want to go down as a nation, abandon the law of God. So we propose prophetically, we call people to repentance, and those who are image bearers, and especially those who profess the name of Christ, whether they're judges, magistrates, politicians, you know, senators, congressmen, ministers, prime ministers, that they will be warned to take note, to subject themselves to the law of God.

That's why under the dispatch box, still to this day in the Houses of Parliament in England, under the dispatch box where the prime minister speaks, is a

Bible. And there's all this symbolism, Jeff, that you talked about is there because it was a recognition that there is only freedom and liberty and justice possible if we recognize that we are all under a transcendent authority and a transcendent law to which we are subject.

If man is law, if autonomy is true, if it's all self -law, then there is only left to us the crumbs of judicial pluralism and the tyranny of the state.

And we must not imagine that that is the Christian view of the state. The Christian view of the state is clearly sphere sovereignty,

God is the ultimate, Christ Jesus is Lord and sovereign over all, and He delegates certain limited areas of authority and jurisdiction or what we might call sovereignty to the family, church, and state, and other spheres that are all meant to serve

Him in terms of His word. Not an ecclesiocracy where the state answers to the pastors and the clergy and everything, the medieval model, not a tyranny, not the sovereignty of the people, not the voice of the people is the voice of God, not the sovereignty and infallibility of the party, as in communism, but the absolute sovereignty and authority of the

Lord Jesus Christ. That's what we're advocating, and we recognize as we think about politics, it's about these spheres of authority which must be governed by the word of God.

And so, we are really biblical libertarians, you've alluded to that, maximum freedom under God, under His gracious gift of His law to the people.

And now you all know why we love Dr. Joe Boot. Thank you for that, brother, that was such a blessing.

Yeah, the key principle passed along that was even quoted from early on, and I'm just speaking of, there's so much that has happened in the

West, whether it's Canada or the United States of America, the principle that was alluded to and even quoted from was

Lex Rex. The law is king. And that would preserve so much liberty and so much justice in our world if it would get back to that, that transcendent law, the law is king, not the other way around, the king is law, or the people are law, it is the law is king,

Lex Rex. So quickly, because I know that Joe, sorry, we're keeping you past when we said we would. Nathan just messaged me and said,

Joe likes you, he'll just keep talking. You have a new book, I want everyone to get it, so the new book, tell us about that, and then we'll let you go.

Thank you, Jeff, so much. You mentioned, well, you mentioned very helpfully there, you know, Samuel Rutherford's Lex Rex, and I was thinking as well of John Knox's Admonition to England.

These were the great fathers in the reformed faith, the great Puritans, and of course, Oliver Cromwell, there's a picture of him right there.

And in a certain sense, my book, Ruler of Kings, follows in that tradition. What I do is

I try and in a topical and current way, look at the challenges that we're facing right now, culturally, in particular the cult of the expert, and the idea that we can put expertise in certain areas in the place of God to rule over all of life, and the way in which a sort of technocratic elite now is trying to build its humanistic utopia, its egalitarian sexual utopia in the modern

West. Then I seek to go into a bit more detail into the way in which secularism falsely tried to present itself as a neutral perspective, as a neutral position with a neutral view of political life and government, and describe how actually the look at the history of the church -state relations there, and the way in which secularism developed.

And then I think the sort of culmination, the sort of summit then of the book is then seeking to unfold the biblical vision of the kingdom of God, and what that means politically, and what are the principles of sphere sovereignty, as we see in Scripture, in creational laws and norms, that as believers we can mine the

Scripture for and apply, and what does that actually mean for political life, for government?

So, whereas Mission of God was a sort of very wide -angle lens, looking at the total picture of the kingdom and culture and education and family and all these different areas,

Ruler of Kings hones in specifically on building a Christian world and life view with respect to government and politics.

In particular, I go after the fact that actually a denial of the lordship of Christ means that the principle of, often the term heresy is associated only with ecclesiastical doctrine.

We think of heresy, the principle only belonging in the life of the church, but actually, people's heretical ideas frequently only come to light when they move out of the ecclesiastical sphere and start talking about politics, or the family, or government, and then you realize they've got a heretical starting point.

So I talk about the heresy of democracy, of the modern conception, the post -French

Revolution idea of democracy where sovereignty is placed in the hands of the people or the state, and as opposed to the kingship of Christ and the principles of sphere sovereignty and how those need to be applied politically and in government.

Actually, it would be a respectful and gentle response to Phil Johnson's misunderstanding there of a theonomic transformationalist historically

Puritan and Kuyperian position on what the lordship of Christ means for our culture politically and in terms of government.

So Ruler of Kings, coming out real soon, EzraPress .ca and you can get it, you can pre -order it at our website right now.

Nathan just messaged and said to tell you, he said you can go another hour. So, Ruler of Kings, actually the way you described that, brother, is

I think it'd be a very, maybe encouraging and helpful book for Phil Johnson, so maybe we'll try to get a copy of that when it comes out.

Please do. In the end, I think Phil would probably agree with a ton of it and it'd probably be a big blessing to him as well.

Yeah, absolutely. I think it's good that this discussion is actually happening, Jeff, and you and Luke and Apologia have really helped drive some of that discussion.

I think that the, you know, seeing, for example the way John MacArthur has joined the preaching campaign, the way he really almost came to grips with a sphere sovereignty type position with respect to lockdowns.

That was even a surprise to me after the first letter, and I think that what's happening is, what we've been trying to say what

Apologia has been trying to say, what Ezra has been trying to say for many years now about cultural apologetics, about the kingdom of God, about the application of scripture to every area of life, to making sure we are not ecclesiasticizing the

Bible or the word of God and saying it's just a church book, it belongs imprisoned in the four walls of the church, rather than recognizing no, it's a word to God's image bearers.

It's a word, it's the law word of the king for his kingdom in every sphere of life.

I think that actually what's been happening these last two years is really pushing that discussion and bringing this discussion right into the fore, that we've missed something critical that many of our forebears understood and that's why we're in the mess we're in.

And I'm hoping that Ruler of Kings that the title is taken from Revelation 1 .5 about the

Lord Jesus subtitled Toward a Christian Vision of Government, will just make a small contribution to helping people think this issue through afresh in our time.

We're going to buy boxes. Yeah, I've been trying to pre -order a whole crate myself. I'm in the works of it.

You know, I think Joe, you're right, that's one of the things that's really blessed me is that for the last decade with Apologia, you know, we were, we've grown a lot as a studio and in our reach and our impact around the world, and since the very beginning, one of the things we've tried to emphasize was exactly what we're talking about today.

This needs to be a discussion. We need to talk about these things. A lot of what we're seeing today is because we've lost this.

We need to get to the Word of God. We need to start applying it to all of life, every sphere of life. And, you know, we took a lot of heat in the past over that perspective because it was so foreign to many

Christians. It wouldn't have been foreign very long ago, but it's, you know, foreign now. And, you know, there were some controversies surrounding that, and what

I've been really encouraged by is just the last two years of tyranny being imposed all around the

West is to see so many solid, amazing pastors, godly men, starting to actually zero in on what you talked about, that sphere of sovereignty, that position of you're still under Christ, and, you know, there is a transcendent law above you.

And I was so blessed. So, so, so blessed. We never stopped meeting for worship.

And, of course, we were supposed to. The church we were renting from actually stopped meeting and told us we couldn't use the building anymore, so we're scrambling with, like, four or five days to go to find a church locally we could actually worship in.

Thankfully we found some like -minded brothers. But our church, many of them had to actually travel 45 minutes to meet for service on Sunday.

And we met, and we never stopped. We took precautions. We actually appealed to the law of God in terms of biblical laws of quarantine.

You quarantine the sick. We made sure that that was a clear thing for our church body. When it first broke out, we saw the data.

We meditated upon it. We meditated upon the law of God. We said, how do we do this consistently? And we came to a decision as elders.

We never stopped. But we just made sure everyone knew, if you're sick, if you've been around somebody in your home who is sick, then quarantine.

Make sure that you love your neighbor by keeping it away from them. And it was a real gift to be able to do that.

We used hand sanitizer before we came up to the table. We told people at the very beginning instead of, you know, in the church gathering together and hugging and, you know, doing all those things, like, let's all go outside immediately after service, out in the

Arizona sun. And let's do it all out there. Our fellowship will be outside. And so we did what we could, but we didn't ever stop meeting.

And there were potential consequences for us, but we still did because we wanted to honor Christ and to be consistent.

And it was a bit frustrating initially where we had laid down the case.

A lot of people understood it, but we actually had a lot of people actually referring us to articles and papers and even messages from well -known pastors saying, you guys need to do what he's doing.

Listen to what he says. You guys should be locked down. You guys just need to yield to the government on this. And we said, but what if the government is contradicting

God's law? What if they're contradicting God's revelation? But we didn't fight over it. We just said, here's our position.

We're going to do what we're going to do. And it was such a blessing to us to see that turn where Dr.

MacArthur just came out and he finally spoke to it in a way where when I heard it, when he came out and he spoke,

I thought that is one of the clearest explanations as to our resistance that I've heard yet.

And I actually listened to it and I said, is Dr. MacArthur a theonomist now? You know, that's how

I heard it. He's got it. He's got it. And it was such a gift because Dr. MacArthur is such a giant in the faith and such a blessing to so many men.

He's really helped so many of us that his explanation and his diving into this and his resistance became such a solid model for so many godly men across the country to say, oh,

I get it. And he's right. Let's resist. Let's do this well. And so I thought

MacArthur and how he responded to California and what he did was such a gift to the church.

And I think like you just said, Joe, these issues are bringing the important questions to the surface and allowing us to examine these in a way that we can actually say or ask the question, are we being consistent with the law word of God?

With the truth we know about the lordship of Christ and his rule in the world? All those things. So, you know, as much as all of us hate the tyranny, it's actually been pretty good for us.

Because it's helping to shape. And you can't fight something with nothing. So if we're going to fight tyranny, we need to fight it with something, which is the word of God.

That's right. Absolutely. Dr. Joe Boot, Ezra Institute. One more time, Joe, where can they go to pre -order the book?

So they can go to, if they go to our Ezra Institute site, actually, EzraInstitute .ca and then they'll see in the corner a button for store.

That will take them to EzraPress .ca and they can pre -order the book from there. It'll be with them very soon.

Oh, you're a gift. This is one of my favorite episodes. This is great. It was really a blessing. Joe, hope to see you soon.

I'll be praying for your brother and you know, I hope you don't go to jail, but if you do, we're here for you.

We're going to do what we can to get the word out to make sure everyone knows what's going on in Canada. And we'll be praying for you.

We're so glad you're doing what you're doing and honored to be able to join you this Sunday and speaking the truth of God into this context.

You'll be my first phone call. Okay. Right on. Very good. We actually joked about that earlier.

Yeah, we had a little hitch in the timing today and we were like, maybe he's under arrest.

He gets one phone call. Hopefully he calls us and does the show from prison. We appreciate you guys.

Keep up the fantastic work. And Jeff, of course, you're one of the Institute Fellows.

We appreciate your fellowship and we appreciate your support very much. Absolutely, brother.

Thank you so much for being such a gift to us. Alright, everybody. Thank you guys for watching today. It's been a real, real blessing to have

Joe on. I really think this is probably one of my favorite tours. Just Joe's ability to explain and put that together is a tremendous blessing to all of us.

Grateful. I was just going to mention we had to make a change in dates for ReformCon.

Oh, good point. Long story. But we are for realsies moving

ReformCon to October 27th to the 29th of 2022.

Which is perfect. It's Reformation Day weekend. Exactly. And so Joe will be there and will be preaching an apologia,

Lord willing, if Biden doesn't stop him on Reformation Sunday. So we're pretty excited about that.

Oh, that's going to be awesome. ReformCon, everything's being developed right now. We want to do this very well for everybody.

We want to do what we do to the glory of God, do it with all of our might. And so we're putting together a conference that is going to try to be...

We're trying to make it an amazing experience for all of you who attend. From the venue, to the speakers, to the events, to what takes place.

This is not a church service. It's a conference. ReformCon. We want to apply the

Word of God to all of life. So we're going to have discussions with some of the leading global experts on finances from a

Christian perspective, applying the law, Word of God to the area of finance and economics, to art, to science, all that.

We're actually going to have... We're planning on performances there. Like if you talk about like Christians need to lead in this area, we want to show you what's that look like to be somebody that is actually a leader in this area.

We have Dennis Sarfate, who is a well -known baseball player and just a giant in that field.

He's going to be there doing some talks and things as well. We have a lot planned. We have a lot planned in terms of the fellowship and the connections that you can make while you're there.

We have time where we're going to eat together, we're going to drink together, we're going to laugh together. It's going to be great. So we're planning something very special and so we wanted to have time to do that.

So everything got pushed back to Reformation Day weekend. We are planning something very special for you.

So the site is being built right now to give you that amazing experience from the start of this.

And once it goes live, we're going to let you know so you can get your tickets. We would encourage you to get your tickets when it comes up immediately because we are planning on packing this place out.

It's limited space. We only have room for about a thousand people and once that gets filled up that's it.

We just can't have any more. So we have about nine months to build this thing and we're working hard.

Our whole team is working hard on it. So that's coming. ReformCon 2022. One more thing.

I don't know if you saw it come across. This just happened a little bit ago. The SCOTUS blocked

Biden's vaccine mandate. Did they? Minus the healthcare workers. But for private businesses.

They officially blocked it. Yep. Well, that's kind of good news. It's good -ish. It's good -ish. It's good -ish.

Well, praise God. Okay, that's a good encouraging word. I'm going to look into that. Breaking news.

Breaking news right here in Apologia Studios. It's good -ish. Yeah, for sure.

Inconsistent but good -ish. So I'm going to look into that right away. Thank you guys for watching. Go to endabortionnow .com.

Please sign up. Get out with your church to save lives. Over eight babies a day right now are being saved through the churches that are in the coalition bringing the gospel to the mills.

Pray for us and be a part of what we're doing this year in terms of the states where we have legislation being written for equal protection for all humans in that state that would essentially criminalize and abolish from the start in these states.

Pray. Please pray. Again, we have four rallies scheduled probably by April.

So Arizona, South Carolina, Indiana, and Louisiana all with bills of equal protection.

That's criminalization. That's not a heartbeat bill. That's not wider hallways at abortion facilities. That's criminalization.

Abolition. That is equal protection from jump, from the start. So please be in prayer because this is an amazing thing.

Praise God for His work and all of His people across this country, Christians who are bringing the word of God as Christians to their culture and to their legislature and they're bringing the gospel to bear everywhere they go.

That's what's doing this. Amen. Think about that. Since Roe vs. Wade, the pro -life industry, the pro -life machine hasn't been able to do what has been accomplished in these last few years just by Christians from churches going to legislators and now we have bills of equal protection and abolition, criminalization.

That is to the glory of God and that is unique and it is amazing. So please, please pray.

Pray, pray, pray. And please get in the fight with us. Some of you guys can go to the mills. Let's get you going.

Let's get you the free training and resources. Some of you guys can go to legislators. Let's do this together. And some of you guys saying,

I can't. My circumstances, I'm providentially hindered. So I'd say please give.

Please give. Give to endabortionale .com. Help us to meet our budget goal for the year. And don't forget to sign up for Bonson U free account and sign up for all access.

Partner with us in this ministry. Such a blessing to be here today with Dr. Boot and a blessing to have you guys here with us.

That's the bear. Peace out. I'm Jeff the Coleman the Ninja. We'll catch you next week right here on Apologia Radio.