August 17, 2023 Show with Jacob Tanner on “Why Sally Can’t Preach”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe.

It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better. It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on the 17th day of August, 2023, and once again, I am requesting from my audience an urgent prayer request for my brother Andy, who is 75 years old in a local nursing home here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

He has been living in there for several years, ever since he had a massive stroke that left him paralyzed on the entire left side of his body. He, after a bout with pneumonia, is now in a life and death situation regarding his blood being contaminated.

It is called sepsis, which is a very serious, life-threatening situation. I just visited him in the nursing home today, and it is interesting that he appears no less healthy than he has in that nursing home for years, so I have no idea what that actually means internally for him, but he is not any more weak or less vocal and still has his quick wit about him and a strong voice, so I don't know if that indicates anything in a positive nature in regard to an improvement of his health.

All I know is that he is receiving his antibiotics intravenously, and he already had a round this morning and is having another one tonight. I will keep you posted, but I am asking you, please, all of you, to pray for our great physician, to use the physicians who are caring for him, to bring him to a right and good, strong health again, and if not, using those means that he performs a divine miracle in the life of my brother and that our Lord makes it abundantly clear that my brother has a genuine profession of faith in Christ.

My brother does profess Christ. It is not always a consistent profession, and it's not one that, as of yet, has left me with complete peace about where he is with the Lord, so I appreciate that prayer being lifted up to our Lord more than anything else so that I know with great, enormous confidence that he is truly a child of God before he departs this earth, whenever that will be.

So I appreciate all of you, hundreds of you, who have been letting me know via social media and email and text that you are praying for my brother, and I have told him that there are Christians all over the world praying for him, and he seemed genuinely appreciative.

Of that.

So I will keep you updated on that and ask that you continue to pray for him. Today we have a first-time guest, Jacob Tanner, who is an author and pastor of Christ Keystone Church in Middleburg, Pennsylvania, and we're going to be addressing a brand-new book of his that is quite controversial, Why Sally Can't Preach, and we'll also be announcing once again the 2023 G3 National Conference, where my guest Jacob Tanner will be involved in a book signing, because the book that he has written, Why Sally Can't Preach, is a publication of G3 Press.

So I am looking forward to meeting him at the G3 Conference. I hope I actually meet him beforehand at the three-day conference in Lancaster the week before G3, featuring Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries.

Since our guest is in Pennsylvania, I'm hoping that he can attend that as well. But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, Jacob Tanner.

Yeah, thank you very much for having me on. I appreciate this.

Well, why don't you let our listeners know about Christ Keystone Church of Middleburg, Pennsylvania.

Sure. So our church was actually planted last year in 2022. I believe we started technically in April, actually, and have kind of flipped back and forth, if anybody's familiar with the area, between Mifflinburg and Middleburg, depending on where the best place was to meet for us.

But as of right now, we've secured a location in Middleburg. And so our church is really focused on a couple of things that we think are very important. One of them is, of course, evangelism, then discipleship, and really everything centers around glorifying God.

The mission of our church is to reform, rebuild, and reclaim. Reform the church, rebuild Christian community, and reclaim the culture for Christ. And by that, we mean we aim to make the Lordship of Christ known in all things, and to bring all things under the Lordship of Jesus.

And so we are a 1689 confessional church. We hold to the 1689 Confession. And I'm, of course, the pastor, and so we also hold to expositional preaching of the Scriptures, verse by verse, week in and week out.

But the Lord has blessed the work so far, and if anybody listening to this is nearby and looking for a church, they are more than welcome to come and join us and worship together with us.

Praise God. And if anybody wants more details on this fine congregation, go to ChristKeystoneChurch .org. ChristKeystoneChurch .org. Well, we have a tradition here. Whenever we have a first-time guest on I Interrupt and Zion Radio, we have that guest give a salvation testimony that would include the kind of religious atmosphere, if any, in which our guests were raised, and what kind of providential circumstances our Sovereign Lord raised up in their lives that drew them to Himself and saved them, and that would include you.

So we would love to hear your story.

Yeah, absolutely. So I feel like my story is not as exciting as some people, and for a while growing up, that bothered me quite a bit. I grew up in a couple of different church backgrounds that were big on these huge testimony experiences, you know, like people were near death or they were overdosing on drugs and they came to the Lord, and I was always so impressed by those, and then I'd look at my testimony and say, well, there's nothing really special about it.

But that's the bad way of looking at it.

I just saw a clip of a Christian stand-up comic, and it was very hilarious, where he was talking about being in, I think it was Christian youth camp or something like that. He was raised in the faith, so when he was hearing testimonies of people that were drug dealers and stuff, and he goes, I wish I did that before I was saved, so I'd have more of a testimony!

But in my opinion, Christ preserving someone from being involved in some of the more overtly wicked, scandalous, and deadly behavior is just as much a powerful testimony, the preservation of God and the protection of God, not that those individuals are any less deserving of.

Hell.

You could be a moral, upright person, a member of the Young Republican Club, and think when you go down the checklist of the Ten Commandments, and I said think for a reason, think that you've obeyed these commandments, and you may have not been involved in the ones that are more overtly scandalous, but you will go to hell just as quickly as a serial killer if you do not have the blood of Christ covering you.

Amen. And that was kind of my testimony, then. So, growing up, I grew up in a household where my parents taught me about Christ from a very early age. In fact, I'm often asked the question, when exactly do I believe I was saved?

And I can't pinpoint the exact date. There's a reason for that. One of the earliest memories that I have, I was probably three or four years old. I remember praying on my own. This wasn't being coerced into it in a situation or anything like that.

I just remember praying on my own that Jesus would forgive me for the sins that I had committed. Didn't have a full understanding. I knew I knew at that point that Jesus, of course, had died and risen, and somehow that meant I could be forgiven of my sins.

So, that's one of my earliest memories. I remember this becoming more of a reality for me, though, when I was around the age of 10. Around 10 years old, I struggled immensely with panic attacks and anxiety, which is very unusual for a child of that age.

But I did. And so, there was a very real sense that I wanted peace and security, and I just I couldn't find it anywhere. And so, as I began to pray more about it at that age, I came to a deeper sense of peace in Christ.

And then throughout my teen years, that only seemed to increase. And it was during my teen years, actually, our family got involved in a couple of different churches. So, to back up a little bit, growing up, we were kind of the hodgepodge family of every single Christian theology possible.

So, it was nothing surprising for us to go to—I'm from Long Island, New York, and there was a place in Long Island, the Our Lady of the Shrine or something like that. We would go there often, and it was a Roman Catholic shrine.

Where from Long Island are you? Because, as you know, I'm—.

I'm from Holtzville, New York, originally.

Oh, I know Holtzville very well. In fact, I frequently stay in hotels when I visit Long Island in Holtzville because they seem to be among the least expensive without being an actual—without it being a crack shack.

Yeah, yeah. And it's also near or not far from the Ronkonkoma train station, which is a major hub, as you.

Know, on Long Island.

Yep. Yep. I can't remember where this shrine was, but I know we went there often. And I think it was called Our Lady Shrine or something like that. I remember there was a huge statue of, I guess, a lady holding what was supposed to be the baby Jesus.

And we went there often. I even sat in some of the mass things that happened there, and this was probably when I was around the ages of seven and eight. And then it was nothing for us in that same week to then go to an extremely Pentecostal church and then to watch Joel Osteen or Joyce Myers on TV.

I mean, we were in a lot of different heresy. We believed a lot of different theological lies. And so in my teen years, I'd love to say things immediately improved, but they didn't. We eventually moved to Pennsylvania, and in Pennsylvania we began to attend holiness churches, Wesleyan churches, with a very, very works-based, salvation-centered message.

And as a teenager, this frustrated me quite a bit. One of the providences of God in my life was I've always loved reading, and so I was reading my Bible through, and I was doing it often from the age of 13 onward.

But I also found ways to get free books online of the Puritans, and so I was reading the Puritans, I was reading a lot of the Reformers. And as I was reading their writings and comparing it to what I had heard both growing up and what I was hearing in the churches at that point, I realized that the theology I had was extremely lacking.

I had no sense of security in Christ. I had no real sense of how exactly a person was saved. I knew it somehow involved faith, but then I couldn't figure out, was it dependent on my works? I just didn't know.

And so it wasn't until I was about 14, 15 years old, reading men like Bunyan and John Calvin and Jonathan Edwards and even Martin Luther, that I finally began to get a real sense of the gospel simply being the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, the gospel being the means of my justification through faith alone, apart from my works, but through the finished work of Christ.

And when I began to realize that, it totally changed my life. So again, that's why I say I don't know when exactly the date of my salvation would be, but I do know during my teen years, I definitely had more of an assurance than I ever had before.

And it was around then, the age of 16, that I began preaching. Probably not a very good idea for anybody listening to begin preaching at age 16, especially in the environment that I was in, but I did begin preaching at age 16, and I was preaching again in these Holiness Wesleyan churches, and long story short, I burned almost every bridge to those churches very, very quickly when I first started preaching.

And so over the period of a few years, it became clear that I didn't have a name for the system of theology I was holding to at the time, but I knew that it didn't match up with what the other churches in the area were holding to.

And so to fast forward about another decade or so, after attempting to serve in various churches, it became clear that what we needed most in our area, and we didn't feel called away from our area, we felt called to stay in our area.

It felt like what we needed most of all, and we prayed about it, was to have a confessional, Reformed, Baptist, biblical church planted in our community. And as far as I know, we're one of the few ones for quite a distance.

So the Lord's been blessing that, but over the time, besides preaching and pastoring, the Lord has also granted me many opportunities to write. And so I kind of attribute all of this stuff to back when I was a teenager, reading the Puritans, just how much their writings, their pastoral writings, counseled me and helped me.

And I look at a lot of my ministry as trying to do what the Puritans did with their writing and with their pastoring and counseling, comforting, helping people, and that focus, again, on evangelism, discipleship, and ultimately glorifying God.

Well, when did you realize and how did you realize that the Lord had placed a call upon your life to enter into pastoral ministry?

So I was 16 years old. I was homeschooled for my high school years, and one of the requirements of the Pennsylvania program that I was in was that I had to give a public speech. Again, I don't recommend this, but I couldn't figure out a better way to give a public speech than to do it at church.

And so I appointed, at the time, I suppose he would have been like a youth pastor-type deal. I approached him and said, I need to make a public speech. Will you let me do it for the youth group? And he immediately just said, yeah, sure, go ahead and do it.

So I did it, and he liked it quite a bit, and the other kids in the youth group seemed to like it. So I'm around 16 at this time, or maybe it was 15. I think I was 16. And he then went to the pastor of the church and said, I would love to have Jake preach from the pulpit on a Sunday night.

And for whatever reason, everybody thought this was the best possible idea, and so they agreed to it. And at this point, I was not thinking I was called to preach. Didn't feel like that was something I was even remotely interested in.

But I had to make a public speech. So I always liked writing. I, of course, love the Bible, and so I just put together a sermon as best as I could. And the time came to preach it. And I remember the process of preparing the sermon.

I absolutely loved.

I loved it.

But I thought for sure I would not like delivering that sermon. But then it came time to actually preach it. And I remember as I was preaching, the thought crossing my mind, what if this is what I'm supposed to do?

So I began to sense a calling at that point while I was preaching without actually intending to do that. And then after that service, a couple of the men within the church, the pastor and a few of the elders came up to me and said, Jake, we really feel like this is where the Lord is calling you to be.

We need young men in the ministry. We know that you're young, but really you need to start praying about this. Is this where the Lord's calling you? And so one of these men, his name is Jim Smith, was a huge encouragement to me to really seek theological education.

And he felt a very strong calling over my life, and I began to sense it as well. And so he kind of confirmed that for me, and so I had both the inward and outward calling pretty early on. I would say by age 17 or late 16 is when I began to know it for sure.

Praise God. Well, we have a very controversial topic, as I've already said today, why Sally can't.

Preach.

And can I ask you, I'm sure you're aware that there are other volumes that have not only been in print for centuries, but some contemporary books that have been written and published with very theologically sound authors, in fact, authors that share our Reformed faith.

Why did you say to yourself, you know, I need to add a book of my own to what is already available?

Yeah, I actually did not plan on writing this book. There was no point where I woke up one morning and said, you know what, I'm going to write a book about why women can't preach. What actually kind of led to the writing of this book is kind of a long story and process.

I kind of already described how I was in bad theology and the Lord led me out of it through the reading and writing of the Puritans and the Reformers. But when I began pastoring and preaching, I was still in the same Arminian circles that were practicing a lot of theological errors.

And so the first church that I was the assistant pastor at, I was probably there for a couple of months. I think I started, yeah, it was December 31st I started. So Father's Day comes a few months later.

I'm voted into the church. I'm serving as an assistant pastor. And the senior pastor comes to me and says to me, hey, Jake, just so you know, you don't need to preach on Father's Day. I have a woman coming in to lead the service for us.

And I remember at the time I was 21 or 22 years old and I kind of just looked at him and said, wait, we have what? We have a woman coming in to preach for the Father's Day service. That makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

And he said, well, my my uncle did it before I was the pastor here. Everybody over the years has done this. It's been going on for 45 years or whatever it was. So we're going to have this woman come in.

Don't worry about it. But I did worry about it. And I was thinking this is not biblical. So I remember my wife and I chose that Sunday not to attend. And we were just trying to figure out, well, what do we do?

Where do we go from here? And I began to have that conversation with people at the church about why women can't preach and why they can't pastor and why they can't be elders and why men have to lead. And, you know, I'm a 21, 22 year old young man having this conversation with 50 year old men and 60 year old men and 70 year old men.

And they've they'd never heard these things before. So I began to study it more. Long story short, we leave that church due to some other theological issues. And I go to another church, which is reformed, or at least they claim to be reformed.

And in the interview process, I'm asked about women preachers. What do I think about them? How do I feel about women in eldership? And I tell them I don't like it. It's biblical. I don't want to see that.

They seemingly, to me at least, agreed with what I had said. So I didn't press the issue any further. I even gave them a copy of the 1689 Confession. And I said, if you want to know what I believe confessionally, here you go.

This is what it is. And we even had a question and answer time for me before I came to this church. I preached a couple of sermons, received 100 percent of the vote. And then it came time for our very first board meeting.

And I go to the board meeting, and lo and behold, this is my own fault. I didn't do my due diligence. But lo and behold, there's women on the church board. And they're not just on the church board, but they're serving in the capacity of elders, at least in title.

And so I kind of looked around, and my stomach sunk. And I thought, what did I do? What kind of mistake have I made here? And so I was going to leave the church, but I had a good friend of mine, a pastor, say, listen, you were voted into the church.

You received 100 percent of the vote. How about you give it a year? Preach on these things. If they don't know any better, they need somebody to teach them. So preach about the biblical roles of men and women.

Preach the gospel. Preach what the structure of the church is supposed to be. Preach expositionally. Preach through the word. And give them a year, and then bring these things up to a vote. So I did that.

I preached on the structure of the household, the structure of the church, and how God has honestly structured things in a patriarchal way. And I can distinctly remember there were two points where I honestly felt like I was going to be attacked while I was in the middle of preaching.

The first was when I was preaching on Ephesians 5, 22, down to the end of the chapter, about wives submitting to their husbands. And you could, like, hear a pin drop. People were upset. They were not happy that I was saying what I was saying, but it was biblical.

And then I preached a subsequent message and sermon on the roles of women and men within the church, with 1 Timothy 2 and 1 Timothy 3. And again, it was in the middle of that sermon. If looks could kill, I'm pretty sure almost everybody in that room would have struck me dead right then and there.

But I continued to do it. Over the course of a year, I preached through various books of the Bible, and I tried to show them as best as I possibly could from the Scriptures what the biblical roles of men and women are.

When it came time for that vote, things didn't really go too well, and so we obviously left that church because I felt very strongly that not only was the church in sin, but it would actually be sinful for me to continue to pastor with women serving as elders, not only in that church but in that particular denomination that the church was a part of as well.

There was a lot of issues there that I'm leaving out, but even the denomination itself was veering off into that direction and some other woke issues as well. And so having preached for, you know, over a year on these different topics, I began to look through these sermons after I had left the church, and I began to write for G3.

And I'm pretty sure the first article that was published with G3 was an article called No Such Thing as Women Pastors. And so I submitted that, and they accepted it, and they liked it, and it seemed to have really good feedback from the people who read it.

And so I kind of jokingly then said, Well, I've got a lot more material that I'd be more than happy to use, maybe even in a small book. And as it turned out, this was in 2022, they came back to me and they said, Actually, we would love that.

A small book on this topic would be great. We'd be very interested. And so here we are about a year later, and Why Sally Can't Preach has been published. But really what it is is it's a combination of sermons that I had written over the period of that year.

So it's not that you're just reading those sermons, but in a sense, it's multiple sermons that have been edited, stitched together, and compiled to try to make the most biblically accurate case that can be made for why it is that women can't preach.

Well, we have to go to our first commercial break right now. If you have a question for Jacob Tanner on Why Sally Can't Preach, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name, at least city and state and country of residence.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Let's say you're a member of a church with a female pastor or female pastors, plural, and you disagree with that. And obviously, you don't want to draw attention to your identity yet.

Or perhaps you're even a male elder of a congregation that has female elders, and he disagrees with his own elder board over this. You might even be a woman appointed to the eldership of a church that has begun to believe that she herself is not qualified.

I actually, years ago, when I worked for WMCA Radio, received a phone call from a woman who was an elder in a PCUSA church, a PCUSA church that was at least somewhat conservative and believed in the inerrancy of the scripture and so on.

And this was back in the 90s. And she contacted me and she heard my pastor preaching on WMCA Radio on the show that I created titled The Voice of Sovereign Grace. And he happened to be preaching a sermon on why only men are qualified to be elders in the church.

And she was convicted about this. And she asked me of recommendations of churches where she could visit because she believed that she not only had to resign from being an elder of the church where she was, but she had to leave that church because, as she said, I don't want to any longer be a member of a church that ordains women.

It's quite a remarkable thing. But whatever the reason is, and you're not ready to identify yourself, we can understand those things would compel you to remain anonymous. But if it's a general question about what the Bible has to say about exclusively male headship, please give us your first name at least, city and state.

And country residents, don't go away. We will be right back after these messages.

The Mid-Atlantic Reformation Society presents The Future of Christendom 2023, The Gospel at War, September 15th to the 16th in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, featuring Dr. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

We are excited to be including a formal debate in this year's conference. Dr. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries will be debating Dr. Gregory Coles, author of Single Gay Christian, A Personal Journey of Faith and Sexual Identity, the debate topic.

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James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here. I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the G3 National Conference.

That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd, on a theme that I have been preaching, teaching, writing about, and defending in live public debates for most of my life, the sovereignty of God.

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That's Royal Diadem dot com. Don't forget a very important aspect of this. Mention Chris Arnzen of Iron Trip and Zion Radio in order for us to receive 100 percent of the profits from that sale. We're now back with our guest today, Jacob Tanner, pastor of Christ Keystone Church of Middleburg, Pennsylvania, and author of Why Sally Can't Preach.

If you have a question for Jacob, our email address is Chris Arnzen at Gmail dot com. C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at Gmail dot com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

And I want to ask you, Jacob, if you agree with me on this.

Sure.