Episode 1 - Was Bathsheba Raped?

Yeah, so as I was saying the the wolf with a mask on it, I'll tell you why I don't like it, okay

Can you start naming wolves you've seen with mask on This one. Okay, that's not real

Can you name a wolf that you've seen that would wear a mask and still be intimidating this one wrong? I am so unintimidated by that wolf that will the most dangerous part of its body is covered up by a mask that wolf makes me

Think that his wife has fallen out of love. Yeah, have you ever seen the show alone? No Yeah, do you know what makes that's what you're wolves in that show scary.

I don't know the fact that they can bite people Okay, that wolf can't well to be honest.

This is just a mascot for a school. So But mascots are supposed to be

Intimidating. Well, they're at least supposed to be representative of the animal the thing I want to say I can't say something. We want to be supportive of you as a person and this is

At least it's at least interfering I want to be able to do that for you. Yeah Like your endeavors

Cool, I want to reach across and take the mask Wolf that is on your shirt, but I can't

I can't cuz it's it's part of the design Well, he's just he's just making sure that everyone else is safe. That's not what wolves do but that's what masks do

Okay, the gray Liam Neeson That was a great movie that movie man

Have you seen that movie you and I saw it together in theaters? It was fantastic in the anti -god stuff

It was a fantastic apart from yeah that Casual Yeah, he got me was this like very you they had a guy

Spoiler alert they had a guy die and what happened He was like this far away from getting out of the water if he could have lifted his head a little higher

He would have not drowned but he drowned That was ridiculous. I was like that is the most terrifying thing ever.

You're right there. Look, I love my nerd friends Oh Andrew is one of them.

We were sitting in the theater together We were actually at the theater at the mall not my favorite theater, but we were there.

Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah, and when the big wolf comes out

Andrew with this popcorn in hand leans over me goes. Oh goodness. That's the Alpha And Coincidentally, he represents the very not alpha

Yeah, and now he has a quote -unquote alpha gray wolf on his shirt with a mask on with the mask

Yeah, Oh have the mighty have fallen Both Andrew, but he brings an interesting perspective to the table and we love him for it

All I gotta say is that the alpha was in that movie that now I don't know how you're gonna participate in this conversation

We're having today. Hey, hey, you know what? Point -taking That's a great way to go into the intro time

Everybody welcome back to the point -taking podcast or welcome to the point -taking podcast

If this is your first time not just welcome back welcome shoulder. Welcome to the point -taking podcast podcast

The podcast where we make and take biblical and spiritual questions and just chat it up That's Not don't give him attention for that When this airs

I will be sharing it now just for this moment when you give him attention You weren't gonna share it before. Yeah, I was gonna do more.

I don't know how I'll figure it out I'll get Nate to show me how to do that Nate Nick he's behind you.

Oh, I thought you said mate. It's like we don't have a Nate. Do we have a Nate here? No, don't encourage his jokes, please.

And thank you Don't laugh Point taken is about taking biblical and spiritual truths and quote -unquote chatting it up What your wolf can't do because as a masculine where we make and take questions

Spiritually and biblically and just chat it up Welcome to just chat it up time with the point -taking podcast.

Yeah I'm your host hunter Wilson. There we go. All right hosting the show This to my left right here is pastor

Joe Shia Shipley Joe Shia Shipley and to my right is the butt of the joke

Andrew pretty much. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's me That's that's always been me. All right Well today's episode is a special episode is a special episode because you may not want to listen to it

You may not want to watch it You may not want to be anywhere around it or even close to it because this it is a sensitive topic very sensitive

So those of you with weak constitutions may want to leave the stadium immediately or are offended by the subject

You may not want to watch this one or listen to this one. The subject is of course rape was

Bath Sheba Raped by King David. That is the question that some absolute genius brought to the table

Unnamed he might be a host of a podcast. I thank you brother Andrew. No way. Okay All right.

So, all right. So the question is was that occasion? It was hunter.

That was yeah, it was it was me I wasn't gonna say that but I'm kind of a genius was Bath Sheba raped genius hunter

Can you explain what made you think about bringing this to the table? Like what inspired that what inspired it is

I was doing studies Right and because I like doing studies and Samuel I like doing studies and so and so when

I was thinking about King David I just thought about all the things that he did the man after God's on the idea that okay a man after God's own heart

I've always pictured King David as a pretty solid dude, but then I just started thinking about it just like, you know

He's done some really crappy things in his life And the more

I learned about him, I was like man, how incredible is it that somebody like that? Who does all those things?

Has the forgiveness and the redemption that Jesus bright to be named? That's like dude you can do this that and that and you can still get to a place in your life where you have a heart like God's because of the

Revitalization God brings I was like man, that's crazy. And so I thought about it So I guess that's the first thing we can talk about.

Why is it important if he did or didn't? Why is it important if he did or didn't for me the reason

I thought was it's like, okay if he did Then you have a guy who not only

Impregnated another man's wife killed him right, and then did all that but it was rape on top of that and what does he call the man after God's own heart and The incredibleness of that is like so crazy to me.

So that's why to me that was my number one reason of Like this this is something that should

Should at least be mentioned. Yeah, I think either way you go here We'll get into a little bit of a back -and -forth on was

Beth. She be raped I think either way you go. This is a very grave sin of David So tell you what, let's lay it out just in case there are people listening who maybe don't know how this went down Some people when they are taught about David are taught that you know

David was a little shepherd boy was told he'd be King. He went and killed Goliath You know a little sling little rock all that kind of stuff and then he was a great guy his whole life had one little

Tiny blip with Basheer, but besides that he was stellar guy, right? His rebellion went on for years as we'll see.

This is just one example of it So if you don't know David is walking on his his roof.

Of course, they had all flat roofs In Israel he's walking on his roof and he sees a woman

Bathing on her rooftop common practice in the summer hot all that stuff, right? He sees her he longs for her.

This is 2nd Samuel chapter 11, by the way, and He sends a messenger to ask who that is

It comes back It's Uriah the Hittites wife and Uriah is off to war fighting for you guessed it

King David David sends word Sends word

To go and I'll read exactly because this goes to hunters point chapter 11 verse 4. So David sent messages

Messengers, I'm sorry and took her being left Sheba. She came to him and he lay with her

She returned to her house the woman conceived and she sent word to David I am pregnant That's what

David does. I'll fast -forward here David calls for Uriah to come home and Tells Uriah hey, man, take a break go home sleep with your wife right thinking that maybe if You know

If Uriah finds out she's pregnant. He would think it's his own kid It's not like the baby's gonna come out dressed in purple robes, right?

Exactly. He wouldn't know no fertility test Uriah Instead slept at David's door all night

David's door. I thought it was the gate to the city. It actually says I did too It says right here Uriah slept at the door the king's house with all the servants of the

Lord and did not go down to his house. Okay, so So in the morning

David goes. All right. I've got to come up with another plan verse 13 David made him drunk

Got Uriah just totally wasted and Uriah still did not go down to his house in the morning

David saw him and said why did you not go down and basically Uriah says this all of my brethren are out fighting and the war is not over How could

I come home and be with my wife when they're all away from theirs? He a drunk

Uriah had more honor than a sober King David So David came up with another plan.

He sent his general said hey y 'all go fight this battle Which by the way, we don't need to fight and this is where I think the gravest sin of David is even in the midst of everything else and When you get put

Uriah's troops on the front of the line And when the battle is at its most fierce tell everyone else to pull back and leave

Uriah there And of course Uriah died now once you think about this this whole battle was created simply to kill

Uriah How many people do you think ended up dying? Oh, man hundreds hundreds thousands

Maybe because it was both sides when he said pull back was he's speaking of like everybody

Yeah, just him and his man says right here It says right here

David wrote her letter to Joab. Oh, by the way, Uriah is the one that carried this sealed letter to the general

Set you right in the forefront of the hardest fighting then draw back from him that he may be struck down and die and Uriah took that letter to Joab didn't open it because he had honor and It would have the

King's seal on it. It'll be a wax seal with his ring and all that stuff Then it open it and Joab read it and goes

Alrighty boss, that's basically the equivalent of hey, buddy dig your own grave.

Here's your shovel Yeah, so the amount of people that died We don't know but it was a lot more than just Uriah because it says intense fighting

So then finally the wife of Uriah Bathsheba verse 26 heard the Uriah had died.

She lamented over her husband And when the mourning was over okay, so Don't In other words, there's a mourning period when your spouse died,

I can't remember how long it was and I think it's a week in Leviticus This time about the mourning period not the fact that she got over it when the mourning was over Mo you are

David sent and brought her at his house. She became his wife and then bore him a son and Then the end of verse 11 says but the thing

David done displeased Yahweh obviously so There's no shortage of sins here and the son died the son died.

Yeah. Oh and it goes on David finally admits his guilt and the

Lord said and we don't need to candy -coat this The Lord struck the child with illness the child died at a week old never even named yet By the way, the child died

And God said I will be taking the kingdom away from you, by the way Beth Sheba and David have another son named

Solomon And that's where and that's who the next king would be.

So there is the the account By the way, we try not to call them stories that makes them sound fake because this is actual history.

It happened That's the account. So the question is in the midst of all of David's sins. Does this constitute?

Rape and that is the question and let's see where we all fall at the moment.

What do you think brother Andrew? I Don't know.

All right. So here's some arguments. Here's some arguments. I don't know It doesn't to me.

Okay, it's one of those things where I Guess the question is is

Beth Sheba at fault if If it's rape then she would not be right if it is not rape then she wouldn't be at fault

So this has to do with best Sheba's fault to go ahead brother. Okay. Yeah you go here

Here's here's what I'm gonna say about this You could say Bath Sheba was totally down and it wouldn't be

Like this crazy idea that okay. Imagine this you are a woman.

Your husband is away at the war We are not going to speak about your honor your integrity or love for your husband or anything like that We do know that Uriah is a very honorable, dude, right?

That's what we know We don't know how loving he is to his wife. We don't know how loving she is to him

We know that as it comes when it comes to manhood this dudes in the army This dude's not gonna lay with his wife while his brothers are out fighting.

This is what we know about Uriah and That's cool and we know that he didn't have that he had honor enough not to open this the

Letter that David gave him right which is tempting and stuff because why why was I called back for nothing?

Gotten drunk given a letter to bring back Why if that were me, I'd be like, hmm.

I Don't know. I don't know. Maybe he couldn't get away with opening the seal. Whatever. We don't know anything about that But let's say your best

Sheba Your husband's away at war you just get done with your bath and You are within eyeshot of the castle.

I don't know if that has any significance if like where their family or their

Socioeconomic place it's like if you're closer to the castle you're well, I don't know But you

David sees you he calls for you. Okay. I was just invited to the castle by the king personally

Okay Go show up and it wouldn't be crazy to say that maybe she was for it

What I'm but my argument is if she hadn't been for it. I don't think she would have had that choice

Like hat and there's no way that we can tell there's no way we can know but I'm just saying if she would have said

Mmm, not a fan of this It I don't think she would have been able to Just stay home

Have a glass of wine and hang out. I Think it's possible to your point that it doesn't it's not explicit enough to say

I guess my point would be if I was gonna make the argument for no She was complicit in this fully and there was no force or pressure in any way.

I would say okay in the Mosaic Law God speaks about rape.

It will use words like if a man seizes a woman like that's a word it like that, right?

and by the way, that was a Capital offense according to God just to point that out.

If if if a man seized a woman Against her will in Deuteronomy. That was a capital offense.

Just pointing that out there. That was God's law at any rate, I Guess my point would be that wordage is not foreign to Hebrew writers

So if the writer of Samuel, which we're not exactly sure who it is Could have been

Samuel or just a scribe in the king's palace, we don't know Knows how to word that he has read the law many times

He has read the book of Deuteronomy and Leviticus many times. God has explicitly stated his displeasure with rape obviously

Why would he not use that verbiage here to expound? I mean this whole three chapters is about David's sin

This is an argument from science I feel like he would have explicitly made known oh By the way, this is another thing.

The Lord is very displeased with so I think that's gonna come down to definitions of rape So I would have called that's what

I say is I say that it was a power, right? In other words, I don't think that David and again sensitive topic says of subject.

I don't think the David Grabbed her forced her, you know and did all that I think that David sent guards to her home or messengers to her home

Said the king wants to see you in his chambers Brought her there

Who's outside the king's chambers? Guards, okay. Okay. Can we agree on that?

Yeah. Okay, so you won't you're walking with guards You're walking past guards into the king's bedroom and He says what up I saw you bathing and I was peeking and Now you're here had she said hmm.

I don't know It's the implication That okay

People just escorted me here and when I walk out of those doors, who am I passing guards? You know,

I'll tell you what, that's a fair point point taken point. That's a fair point Here's what

I would say, I'm sure someone would think of this Someone might say to me.

All right, Josiah Did you notice that the Lord through Samuel only addressed

David and not Bathsheba? Right to which is a fair point. However, that is not uncommon

For God to do and let me this is a side note, but it's worth mentioning here and and gentlemen get ready because Your toes are about to be stepped on by a hundred and ninety -five pound

Well, I didn't eat much this morning hundred ninety -three pound Man, so listen

Adam and Eve both send sure. Okay. Now look there are some dorks out there That will say stuff like no

Eve then it sends she was deceived Listen, the Bible calls Satan the deceiver of the whole world If that's not people sinning then the whole world should be off the hook

It's your fault that you're received the Bible says do not be deceived, right? I mean even in American law ignorance is not an excuse right a breaking law

Yeah, my point is that if you're deceived by a false teacher, for example it yes

God will very fiercely judge that false teacher, but it's your fault for being the seed because God has plainly made his word

Especially. Oh my goodness, especially where God's Word is plainly available What excuse you're gonna have right so Eve sinned first who did

God address first Adam? Okay and Y 'all remember what

Adam said it was not very subtle Listen, listen to who you blamed you Lord.

It was the woman that you gave me Man, and then

Eve Hey woman, what happened? Oh, it was the let's just keep on passing the way down Okay, and then the serpent would have said

God it was you for pretending to be better than me. Yeah The same thing happens

I was actually reading this Last night in 1st Samuel 15 with the previous

King Saul You remember God told them to go out and destroy every by the way hundreds your job if I get too off -topic to tell me to Shut up.

Okay to destroy everything Oh, and by the way, if you think that's harsh because they disobeyed

The Canaanites continue to kill people for generations. Oh for sure. Yeah, I mean in Genesis It says don't well,

I'm not gonna kill them yet because their Evilness that has a research for the fullness.

Yeah, well Solemn Saul Not only did he not destroy all of them he took the king captive as a trophy and then took some of the gold and stuff and Allowed listen that word allowed the soldiers to take some of the goats and cattle.

No, I Want you to listen to this? Because Saul's excuse for his sin is better than any one of us will ever have

When Samuel yeah Samuel did a lot of prophesying the Kings and most time it was bad news But in case you haven't caught that Samuel is my favorite prophet.

Oh, man, he must have miserable He's like I'm tired of dealing with these pathetic Kings Even after death.

Yeah After Saul says yes,

Lord. We took the cattle the people took the cattle so they could offer sacrifices to you first Samuel 15 22

God says do you think I want sacrifices more than obedience to obey is better than sacrifice for sure

Long story short the people took the cattle and God held Saul Responsible Eve's and God held

Adam Responsible the way I think of it this way if I am here in this wonderful studio

In Ava is at home my daughter and she disobeys Rachel. It is my fault.

It is at minimum my responsibility Okay, that's how God deals with federal headship

Since the man the husband is the head of the household He is ultimately responsible for everything that goes on in there everything, right?

Doesn't mean there's also not responsibility for those individuals like Ava in this But I would be ultimately responsible and God would hold me accountable to that that is consistent through Scripture.

So here just because God only approaches

David does not mean that Bathsheba did not also sin. We don't know at this point God is approaching

David because whoa in Two three different ways. He's the one in charge.

He is at fault. God punishes him That is consistent with how

God always does it and there's more arguments where it's just like, okay.

Well, then why? When he invites Uriah back what did Bathsheba know about the plan did

Bathsheba was Bathsheba implicit? That's a good question. Well, that's a good question was just like, okay, let's get your eye back and Let's get it on and say this is your kid cuz it's almost like he was willing to He was willing to just say alright, we're done.

That was a mistake on my part. Mm -hmm Let's get your husband back.

Let's go ahead and make this make this do this thing I won't say anything if you don't say anything like that's what it it kind of seems like yeah

But then Uriah being the honorable man, he is like, oh, no, no, no There's so many ways to because it's her purposely

Silent on this part. This could be a Bathsheba Has no idea the plan of David for sure kill

Uriah this could be a she doesn't she's totally in on it This could be a no if Uriah had actually gone home.

She would have told him everything this could and we we don't know So I my argument for this is

I'm gonna take basically All the things that we might have thought happened and I'm gonna say okay put yourself in that situation for real

Like put yourself in that situation as if I'm Uriah as if you're Bathsheba. Okay.

Okay, so I'm Bathsheba I'm Bathsheba.

I Am pregnant with the king's child Okay, let's look at it in two lights. I'm pregnant with the king's child and I was all about it

I was just like heck. Yeah, I'm gonna go sleep with King. This is gonna be great. Okay Realistically would

I would King David bring Uriah back to a worried distraught

Bathsheba who just cheated on her husband Who's the last person on the entire planet that Bathsheba wants to walk into the door

X amount of months early without warning? Hmm the husband she just cheated on with a king

So if I'm the king and I'm saying, okay, I need this girl's husband to come back and sleep with her

Then I am going to for sure Let her in on the plan so that she can be welcoming have the rose petals everything

That's a good point. You know something I just thought of But there had to be you know how

I know no one here would ever do this But you know how when you're convicted by the Holy Spirit, sometimes you double down on your sin.

Oh, no I don't know but I would like to think David experienced some conviction here and then doubled down on their sin.

Let me explain why They were intimate one time

Then the Bible says she went home found out she was pregnant and Gave him news that obviously is a few weeks time gap there.

Yeah. Okay, so there were no pregnancy tests there We don't know that she's had a kid before so if she got sick she might in other words

It would have been a few weeks and it appears very clearly. They were not intimate during that time

I'm gonna bring that point back up in just a minute We're gonna take a short break and we're gonna come back and I'm gonna pick up right here about those few weeks in between these events

I want to share with you something that has helped me every time I study the Word of God Read the

Bible like you would any other book and do not read the Bible like you would any other book Read the

Bible like you would any other book in the sense that God wrote a book He didn't use cave drawings.

He didn't use characters. He didn't download it straight on an mp3 player God decided to write a book that book has language inside of it in a language

Our words there are prepositions verbs subjects, etc So read a book like you would any other book

But don't read the Bible like you would any other book in the sense that it has 40 writers, but one author

Today, I want to give you my favorite Greek word and has helped me tremendously and I hope it can help you as well that Greek word is henna h -i -n -a henna and That word means so that when you see the words so that in Scripture Understand that is giving you a reason for what just happened

Just like the word therefore is telling you now that you know, what was just before this is the end result

So that tells you the reason for what just happened. Let me give you three instances of that in Scripture John 3 16 everyone knows it.

Have you ever paid attention to it? God so loved the world. He gave his only begotten Son Why did he do that?

So that Everyone who believes in him will not perish but have everlasting right life

It answers the question of why what is easy? Where is easy? When is easy? Why is the most important question question in Scripture?

Why did Jesus die so that whoever believes will not perish but have everlasting life? Ephesians 2 8 9 for by grace you are saved through faith

And this is not of yourselves. It is a gift of God not of works Why is it not of works so that no one can boast

Nobody from point -taking podcast nobody from witton Nobody in the entire world when they get to heaven will be able to say

I am here because of something I did something I thought of something I I I Salvation is not of works so that every single human being will say

I am only here because of the grace of God That is the only reason when you look at the account of Lazarus and this is the last one

It says Jesus loved Mary Martha and Lazarus, so he waited two days

Now I want you to think about that for a moment Lazarus died there in those two days and you think okay

Jesus the eternal Son of God could have immediately appeared there as he did elsewhere in the gospel

But he waited two days and Lazarus died Why did Jesus wait two days?

So Jesus loved Mary Martha and Lazarus so he waited two days and Then the henna cloth comes in Jesus tells disciples he did that so that The Son of Man would be glorified and so that you may believe the story ends with many people come to know

Jesus the word henna in Greek So that in English tells you the reason what just happened

Jesus waited two days So that many would come to believe because the miracle he performed when you see those words in Scripture No, it's giving you a reason for what just happened in the answer to why which is the most important question in the

Bible Love you guys. See y 'all later. Yeah, so welcome back everybody as I was or welcome shoulder

You'll get it in a minute. And in fact, should I explain it in case there's people? No, no Do you think right now as people are listening to this there's someone laughing right now because I do probably not it

Okay, I can name I could be mean I could be mean but I'm gonna keep quiet that's right you are now listen

God I almost just said it and I was like, oh that would've been so me and I'll do that Okay, don't leave me.

All right, not to you the point to the listener. Oh my goodness All right, so listen, all right masked up wolf everyone come on ready we're all ready we're ready

So that's a two -week period made a Dwight quote. So just know I think

Okay, speaking of someone who whose wife has had two children and there's a couple people disabled

Another person after a couple weeks they can start feeling sick But if they've never been pregnant before which

I read when I read this I read that this is as if this is best Sheba's first child.

It does not explicitly say that let me be fair, right? I Think she would have just thought she was sick.

Okay, I'm trying not to overthink this my point. I think we're talking Five or six weeks

Okay, it's gonna be enough where they wouldn't notice where they well no She she could also been like super paranoid about yeah, just that's fair.

Maybe I'm pregnant Oh, man, I don't want to get to I don't get too explicit the Bible mentions

What time of the month that had recently been in other words There's a type of she knows what part of right of cycle we're going through here so there could have been some type of of knowledge on her part my point being

This would have been a few weeks. So I'm gonna say for I think we can all agree That's a reasonable amount of time four weeks.

It never Says again that they met together again, okay, so four weeks if you're

David It's not like she's not accessible sure,

I Would like to think David experience and if he was a believer at this point, which he clearly was

He was experiencing some conviction four weeks. He didn't do it again Then do we know that he didn't do it again.

All right, let me read it. Let me read it to be fair It says this He laid with her. She returned to her house

Verse five. There's obviously a time gap here verse five says the woman conceived and she sent and told

David I am pregnant So no, we don't But to me it is implied and I could be wrong

But it's implied to me that that was the one time they met up. Can I ask a question to go ahead? She says she sent who would she have sent?

So that's a great question No idea. She now unless you're pointing out her socio -economic stance means she would have had servants which is so it's either that's what

I'm saying is either because of her and your eye and her closeness to the Castle or whatever that she had somebody who could message the king, but it's not just everybody who can allow access to the king, right?

That's what I'm saying their point maybe there's a fair point So so when I read that and that's a fair point and doesn't need to be overlooked when

I read that I read as one Time few weeks later. She sends back. They have not met up since okay when he finds out

He now has the opportunity to answer the call of repentance from the Holy Spirit or double down on his sin

He chooses to double down on his sin now Whether She was complicit or not,

I Would think we would all agree. She has been miserable the past four or five weeks. She has felt

Awful and or Taking advantage of Obviously depending on which way you look at it and probably to hunters point a bit taking advantage of either way you look at it

Right. Okay And then she sends word to David I'm pregnant

I am curious If she has these messengers, did she have the ability to send messengers to your eye out in the field?

Probably not because it probably would have had to been a military sent out All right, she may not even know where he's stationed where they're fighting.

She may have no idea Just something I thought of David's immediate reaction.

In fact, the word is so David meaning because of the news he just got he sent word to Joab Send me your eye of the

Hittite When Uriah came to him, so I want you to think about this hunter

Uriah didn't show up the next day, right? So let's give another couple weeks. Yeah, she's gonna start showing

Very soon, right? Time Uriah got there would she have already been showing that is a legitimate question.

I don't know. I Don't know cuz it takes how long like what if it took three probably three months three months.

Okay three months to travel No, no three months to show Three god you're fighting three months away.

What war you talking about? Like it can't be that important No, but I was just thinking okay

So if it takes to your argument if you're saying five or six weeks, which is a month and a half to realize you're pregnant

Which I don't know but I can see the point there and then I always pictured it'd be a few days like maybe a week

To get from where he's fighting to the kingdom You know, I think if we paid attention he even says where it was.

Yeah, cuz I'm just I'm pulling that out of nothing Can I get it fact -checked it?

Oh, wait, wait check it wherever Reba is Raba I don't know where that is on the map are a

BB a H which is common knowledge to every listener Listening right now. Yeah, they know so y 'all know where Reba is

Yeah, since relative to you, I'm pronouncing it, right? Yeah chapter 12 26

Rebbe Right, oh my goodness the next chapter job is still fighting in that same city.

It's their royal city the Ammonites royal city That still doesn't tell me where it is

But it sounds like they're actually kind of making some headway look at a map so they're potentially from what we just have just just looked at they are potentially fighting a

Pretty good battle like they're winning if they're getting into the capital city and they're fighting and now

David's literally taking time Pulling out someone saying hey You need to bring him back

He's there in the middle of a war and they're winning potentially. They are winning the war and he's like I Gotta get him out of imagine you're in in that war and you're just like super best

You're like best friends with Uriah. He's like man. Don't you know what Uriah? You're the only thing getting me through this tough time

We're really just having a great day. Oh, you have to be called out. Okay. Bye. See you in a few weeks He comes back and everybody.

Hey, we're let's all charge with Uriah and then like pull back a total goof

Oh, yeah. Hey Uriah that letter that David sent you at the job. What did it say? I'm on the front lines now, though.

Congrats, man Did you imagine? Oh, man, you're getting a summons from the king. Well, I Wonder if it says like after this battle you can go home and you're done

And then he would say something like well, you know what until all of our brother and come home I'm not leaving.

I'm staying here with all of you guys, man. They're all casting lots You know what? I bet it's because his wife got the most faithful in the town award.

Yeah Here's something to think about this is what grace does

Those both those gentlemen conceivably are in heaven right now and somehow which gentleman a

Uriah and David Okay, okay. Okay. Somehow there is no hard feelings between them. Oh my gosh

Is that an amazing the thing about if I go to the presence of the Lord right now if I could if I could to add to that Paul yeah

Slaughtered Christians and what do they do when they got there? They rejoice, yes, they are brothers home.

Yeah. Oh I saw that Definition of grace the martyrs of Saul applauding when he entered heaven's gates

Just think about that Paul. You want to come over and see all the crowns you earned me you son of a gun All right, anyway

And then, you know, of course Adam, hey, dude appreciate you messing this one up bro.

Oh great job, by the way Okay So real quick, okay rabbit trail or turtle trail.

Thank you. Thank you You know Esther yeah Esther was so cool.

She's pretty that's a pretty awesome I love the story of SK one of the cool things about Esther I'd say story one of the the account of that's okay.

I've heard about it, bro. We only just said talked about it It's fine. It's fine the account of Esther in the Bible.

Yeah, it is a legitimate book. Okay, um What is a legitimate that made it sound?

You know, it's the mask Sentence ever it's cuz your wolf has a mask

I'm sorry, we respect and love you continue. Yeah, sure You have started the sentence six times and you've yet to let me finish it seven

Esther what Esther she was just you know, your standard person

No, nothing really cool about her other than the king at the time saw favor with her and was like, all right

Well, I want her to be a wife and she kind of cheat. There's no kind of she manipulated the board

When you talk about there's nothing special she was like the prettiest person she was the prettiest but other than that there was no

Yes, there's that Wow. That was awesome. Thank you. I made the podcast first song You know and the music copy right into it copyright infringement.

It's great but She was running the way she was literally running how the king was per Processing things because he would she would always get him drunk and say hey

You sure you want to do that, right you should do that. I would love it if you did this, right? So she was able to play, you know, and in this in the account of Esther.

They God's really never mentioned Right like one time. It's the one of the books of the

Bible that literally Right, he's not there. So it's just you see it's not only from the perspective of David being

David being the man after God's own heart, but then you look at other Character characters

Hank, I'm sorry. You look at other people you look at other focuses of Scripture and there's another one where Esther kind of took took the reins it was through God's hand but It's kind of cool that even though all this all this bad has happened all this stuff could have happened with What was the guy who wanted to kill

Haman? Yeah, Haman. Yeah Haman wanted to literally wipe out All the

Jewish people. He was a jerk. He was a jerk and then Esther's like I know how to fix it I'm like,

I've got the king I can get him. So that's just another it's a cool fact Boyd that had nothing to do with anything.

It doesn't matter. That's what point -taking podcast. Yes Yeah, you think about David being a

Doofus and then you think of Esther and say oh Esther's cool. I like Esther David's a doofus For sure

David's a doofus it's like he had a wolf with a mask on I wouldn't say he's that bad

Okay, anyway Uriah Uriah comes home

He must have never saw her No, it says he didn't right because if he had there would have been problems

So we've looked at it from the I am on board with this I am

Bathsheba I'm totally cool I have to have known if I have a way to consent word to David Obviously David's gonna tell me.

Hey break out the wine Put on the gown and let's get going with Uriah Because and you need to prepare yourself to see him and welcome him home

Because there's just no way she's gonna be in there living a normal life Uriah comes home and that's gonna be cool

Like she'd freak out. So so you're asking why does the Bible not mention that David sent messengers to?

To her to Bathsheba saying hey, make sure you do this when your eye comes home. No, no I'm mostly just pointing out that I feel like if she had been complicit she would have known about it

And I that's my argument, you know, what are you yourself? Okay, so you're saying if she had been complicit in this whole thing

Then she would have known the plan to kill Uriah not to kill Like not right then shooting on the plan to bring

Uriah to bring Uriah home to make sure it was his child Absolutely. Absolutely because they would have been in on this together at this point because why wouldn't you?

Why wouldn't you? If you're King did why wouldn't you work together with this girl to make it work?

Because if you don't you're doing it all yourself, there's a higher chance It's not okay. Think about this if if she come if he comes home and he sees his wife's pregnant

He's not gonna immediately expect the King and is she gonna rat out on the King? Well, maybe if she doesn't then what's she gonna do?

Then she's just gonna still she could lie and be like, oh why it's not so much about another man

I don't think it's about David. I think it's more about Bathsheba. I think it's more about David saying Okay, I need to kind of okay.

I kind of just screwed everything up Let's just make everything back to normal. Here's another perspective though Let's say that she was totally innocent in this

David raped her power raped. Okay. Yes Yes, okay.

Let's say and she was not at all complicit in this. Okay Okay, if that be the case, which

I'm allowing as a possibility here because I would not put it past David at this point Let's put it that way.

Okay Well Now he is sending you

Raya over there If he did this to her How is he so sure she is not gonna tell you

Raya the truth? How is he so sure she is not going to say hey

King David I Used his power and authority to sleep with me against my will.

How is he confident you ready for this? Yeah, I'm ready you ready for this doll, okay For real.

I really want you to put yourself in these shoes. Okay, you are a woman who is literally just taking a bath

You that's your everybody gets to take baths. That's it's you're right.

Just take a bath on your roof She was peeped on Yeah by the king who loves

God. Yeah Now put that in perspective, this is King David who loves

God He snuck peeks during my private time on my roof and then sent for me

Okay Now let's just assume that this was you know David might not have even known if she wasn't into it

Because he might have been so full of himself and so down bad that he was if you're down bad enough to say hey

Hey to these two servants. I really need to be with this girl, which is Who says that but you go and you send her and get for her.

He might have been like, yeah, I'm the king She's into this and wouldn't have even thought about it, whatever, but at this point he's kind of messed up so if you have just lived through this and was sent there to the guy that was peeping on you and Slept with him came back.

You're pregnant You're thinking this is a guy who is acting very out of character and who has done some bad things and so if I tell my

Soldier husband Who has honor and integrity? I see your point that I was taken advantage of by the good

King the man of God Who might repent for his sin? but I Just know what he just did and he's probably not in the space for that Especially since he's bringing home the husband in an attempt to lie and cover up what he just did.

Sure Should I tell my husband who's definitely gonna find a way to confront him? Because he definitely has access to the king because that's where he's slept that time

No, because I don't want my husband to die Right, that's fair. I don't want my husband to die.

So and that's what I'm saying. Is that? Mmm. No, she probably if it was a rape

I don't think she would have told Uriah because it would either hurt her or Uriah if I was if I was bestie about say this is a king who's kind of off his girders

And he might just decide you know what? Hey, you know, what's a lot easier than Doing all this and keeping this lie forever.

Just killing these people look at it. What okay? What about this perspective? What if?

She couldn't she all that's true Could you make the could you make the point that Even if she were to tell

Uriah, he wouldn't believe her He'd be like well King David wouldn't do that because of all the things you just said

He's a man after God's own heart. He loves God. He wouldn't do that. We don't know enough about their marriage I would tell you

I would believe my wife over anyone on this planet and I do mean anyone I don't know

About their marriage. We don't there's so much we don't know here Well, if he if he is fighting, you know, there are plenty of great men in the

Bible who are Terrible fathers and husband for sure and God judges him for that. I think Abraham Eli Isaac.

Oh my goodness. Eli was a yeah, wonderful man terrible father horrible father and God judged him for that and That judgment you'll do it that judgment passed down to his children

Mm -hmm, you know, that's that's what God speaks about when his faithful love reaches to a thousand generations

But the iniquities and the sins to The judgments to the third and fourth generation his point is your sins affect way more than just you they will be affecting your children

David is an example of that because guess what sins Guess what sins?

Solomon committed that made God take the kid from him sexual sin. Yeah sexual sin

Same Solomon did not learn the lessons from his father because Solomon had

What is it 700 wives and 300 where it is concubines?

So there's no doubt about Solomon's guilt in this area. There's no one can we define concubine? okay, this is what

I've this is what I've studied a Concubine is a person who is a now it's an animal with sharp quills.

No, it's not. Okay That was awesome. We just yeah It's a it's a person who

Nick is back there rubbing his forehead and discussed for what just happened Basically, you do all the things of a wife, but you're not married.

No, it's a it's a tractor that Harvest I'm giving actual definitions and you're defining tractors my good.

There's no doubt of Solomon's guilt in this area zero sure Zero sure

God judged him for that very harshly you could make the argument that it's because of David sexual sin

Passed down passed down or because he had a poor relationship with his mother who experienced, right?

I think it's either way here. I tell you what I'll give you this. You've made a pretty darn good case here,

I Will give you that I've never taken it that way Which is part of the point of point taken and if I may for a moment

Please for new listeners and listeners who are gonna listen this a long time from now

Those you not familiar with Wittenbaptist here. Let me put my pastoral hat on for just a moment here at Witten we do what

I think to be a pretty good job of distinguishing between doctrine and Theology and what we mean by that is doctrine is of course the board means teaching a fundamental teaching found in the

Word of God Not in any man found in the Word of God from Genesis to Revelation Doesn't contradict other doctrines grace is not up for the bait.

The word is in the Bible, right? Okay Sin Baptism hell heaven.

These are not up for the bait. Those words are in the Bible Okay Election is a doctrine.

It's not up for the bait the words in the Bible now when you start saying like, okay Well, how in the mind of God? How did he elect his people?

Okay, well then we start getting right so theology means the study of God well who's doing the studying

People ergo it can be wrong, right? So there is no doubt David sinned

That's not up for the bait The Bible says the question is what we're discussing today is how many sins is he guilty of that's basically what we're doing

Right. What are the names of those sins, right? And if the Bible is Assignment or only implicit in some areas it is actually our job to study those things

That is what theology means the study of God and his word So if you're ever curious like alright, well, how can all these guys disagree on certain things?

Well, we don't disagree on biblical foundational truths doctrines we don't

Theology is okay to disagree on so long as we're both studying from a point of the Word of God I didn't say that too convoluted.

No. All right, that makes sense brother Andrew You look like you want brother hunter to quit messing with the microphone.

So just say it. This is this is I'll take your point. I Actually wasn't in the middle as towards the end.

Yeah. No, I was waiting. Was it making a lot of noise? Oh, yeah Did you not hear it? I didn't all right. Well, I think the point being

Our theological difference is it's okay because hunter can have one point and I can have another And when we die and go to heaven hunter won't have to apologize for being wrong about it because I'll nothing to apologize from You're right for not five and you won't have to apologize

I thought you almost just stuttered based on the very slight joke I made right there because and you're biting your bottom lip right now

And it was because I said five instead of four Andrews doing a fake young Now that was legitimately all right, let's go back to a question that we asked let's let's go shoulder to a long time

He looked at what do you listening? He doesn't have a watch on what Andrew what where are you standing right now?

Because I do have one more argument So, can you I have one more argument for this for and against and I want to hear where you are before I bring that up I'd Guys you heard it here first Andrew well,

I don't think you're right. You don't think she was right. She was right. Okay, then can I ask you this question?

May I sure you can do it everyone. Okay, and this is so it says that after the mourning period Bathsheba went and married

David Why do you think she did that from your point of view and I'm gonna tell you afterwards from my point of view

Okay, why'd she marry David? I feel like that was kind of the all right Well, I don't know

I would say that that's kind of the thing you would do I don't know what the culture was, but you're pregnant with this man's baby and it's the king.

I'm gonna marry the king I'll be one of his wives. Okay, believe me wasn't really a bad thing They disobeyed this woman who had who had sex with the king and the king killed murdered her husband

And then about after that mourning period she's gonna go marry him and she did that because of such social norms

Let me give a fair point more less than you know, that still happens today

Let me give a fair point In Unfortunately in most in most

Christian quote -unquote Christian homes if you go and you get pregnant before you're married, what's the next step?

Hey, let's get married. Okay, that's the social norm for us. I don't know what it was like back then

I don't know already married and the guy who got you pregnant murdered your current dad now Let me give hunter a fair point.

Maybe one that he hasn't thought of let me help his cause real quick Wait, it says right here when the wife of Uriah heard

Uriah her husband was dead in other words When who it says when the wife of Uriah when

Bathsheba, okay heard that Uriah her husband was dead She lamented of her husband. It does not say that she ever found out that David killed

You're right. In other words Her husband is a soldier who's in dangerous battle every day.

Mm -hmm. It does not explicitly say that she ever knew that David Okay, and I did not think about that till just now so if this was rape this murder could have happened without her knowing

However, I would like to think in his very public Repentance later on that maybe maybe we can end by reading

Psalm 51. I think there'd be a good point there I would think at that point she did I mean he wrote it down and it was copied down by the

Scribes I would in other words, I would like to think that If the Bible talks about his repentance being true that he confessed all his sin

All right at that point. So my question is and I don't know the answer

Did she find out David kill Uriah here in chapter 11 or not until he did his full confession in chapter 12 and in Psalm 51

I don't know. Well, wasn't it wasn't think I'm trying to think of what What it was for a widow because if once she found out well, there was widow.

There was the kinsmen Redeemer Yeah, that's when Uriah's brother would have married would have married which it does not say

Uriah had a brother by the way, right? so and you've got Almost out of guilt.

Um, uh, definitely for David. You've got the king Who's gonna marry you because you have his child you're set

It's almost like that be the better better of the two. Can I say this? That's a better argument for my point.

I think that okay, I Was and we'll even go with I don't know ambassador by the way, we'll even go with I don't know

I've changed Have I David was a trainer? What why do you say

I didn't mean to that really hurt my feel honest my man should Talk to you those you on video hunter just turned away from me.

Um, I'll make sure to make I'm Bathsheba. Yes I'm Bathsheba and For the sake of the argument.

Let's say that I was power -raped by David and I did not know that David has killed my husband

Okay, so that's where we are with Bathsheba When it comes to marrying David After the mourning period it is a better argument for me to say

I did that for my own benefit because here's this dude who

Put me in a bad position and Got me pregnant and now my husband's dead and I have no way to take care of myself for the baby

Because what what business is she gonna like what's she gonna do? By herself when she had not planned that and all and she's right down the road from David Who is in eyeshot of her roof from his room?

Right. So what I'm trying to say is that if I'm Bathsheba When I'm done with that official period of okay, you need to mourn from this time to this time or else you're the worst

Right when I'm done with that, I am going to go straight to David and say, okay

Let's get taken care of in the castle because I don't know what else to do and maybe

I don't want to put that effort in to doing something else when that is The safest place for me is right there and it's already a better option than Me having to do a whole bunch of stuff to take care of me and a baby

But if you go from the other argument and say well she was implicit in this in the beginning

She was into David. She was getting down with David. She got a baby with she was getting pregnant with David and then you know

Maybe she did maybe she mourned her husband. Obviously. She liked her husband. She cared about her husband

I wouldn't say that she loved her husband in that sense But I'd say that she'd be sad if he was gone and then okay

No, now I'm just gonna rush to David as soon as he dies in the war To me.

I feel like okay, even if you're a cheating person and you're kind of like the worst you'd really have to be the worst

The worst to be implicit and all that and then go to David now See, my thing is

I hadn't thought about her not even knowing that David is the one who killed you, right? I think it's possible.

That's a very pot I feel like that's more likely than her knowing now that I'm thinking about it. I convinced you could you well

I've taken your point. Could you take the could you make the point that maybe she felt as though I'll do don't do that.

That's kind of cool. I was it was That she felt that she felt as if David owed her

Like you do this, dude. I Point taken hmm like you if if you had not done this

Even even if we say that she was he was the initiator If she had gone with it not gone with it, whatever at the end of the day whether she knew

David is more at fault Either way, you did it. You got me pregnant Maybe she doesn't know that she did

David killed her right? Maybe that's let's take that off But this is your fault David. This is your don't even have to be angry

She doesn't even have to be mad about but it's like hey, this is I'd be mad. Yeah, but if she's implicit in the whole thing, then this is like hey,

I know I was implicit But this is also a hundred percent your fault. Can you know it? Complicit, what did

I say implicit? Can you tell me the difference is implicit a word? Yeah implicit like implied.

Oh Yeah. Okay. Yes, you're a hundred percent. Oh, um, yes Complicit Completely complicit, right?

Hey David. This is your fault. You know it I know it like even though that I was part of it I was into it.

This is still your fault Yeah, I'm 100 % with you that that makes a no matter how much time she goes by the for the one who says

I'm a changed was best you rate. I'd You made a great point right there. So you you made a great point.

So you didn't know the whole time Yeah, I'm just saying you know, I the point the main point I'm trying to make is

When you are reading these accounts of these people, I thought they were stories.

All right It's not the main points to Oklahoma point. All right, continue. Let's go. Come on enough

Okay, man to state. I'm with you now, Arkansas Y 'all are ruining okay when you are looking at these accounts of people

It's you need to put yourself in their shoes and just like I am I'm here

I am doing this. This is happening to me. How would I think? How would I think hmm?

Because and that's why that's where I got dude. You know what I Kind of feel like even if Bathsheba was in and this is my main argument

Even if Bathsheba was into it It does not change the paradigm in my opinion that if she had not been into it

Didn't matter it was gonna happen That is a really good argument and one that I could probably get behind you've made some good points

Thank you. So I guess in all point taken point taken That's not a definite answer that's not a 100 % everybody logs out after listening to the point taken podcast and goes to their friend and say

You know what? I have proof that Bathsheba was raped. No and And again, this is theology versus doctrine so this is we can disagree it that the answer is not set in stone

It's hey, was it likely? Well hunter from point -taking podcast says yeah

Hmm, was it a hundred percent true? Andrew says

I did I did Go with that idea And in spite of all that I think we would be remiss not to mention

In Psalm 51 if I may hunter by the way, please know If you don't know get a pastor, but you don't need a pastor.

What did I set out for get somebody to show you? understand that the

Little titles up at top of these songs psalms are man -made But the little notes on the bottom that says stuff like to the choir master or they are signed

Sometimes by the sons of Korah David Psalm. Those are original to the to the copy to the original text

Yeah So Psalm 51 says to the choir master a Psalm of David when

Nathan the prop Nathan I said Samuel earlier my bad I said Nathan earlier. So I mean you when we die, you won't have to apologize.

You're right When Nathan the prophet went to him after he had gone in to Bathsheba God David says this in verse 4 against you and You only have

I sinned and done what's evil in your sight? So that you may be justified in your words and blameless in your judgment.

In other words Your judgments that you dealt out to me were completely just because I sinned but with the most amazing thing

About who God is in comparison to who we are He's David sinned against a lot of people

Uriah either way You look at it Bathsheba those hundreds maybe thousands of soldiers that died in that battle that David fictitiously created in order to kill

Uriah The son that was born to him his children that he taught and they fell in the same sin all those people he sinned against Because of how holy

God is David can still say it in the inspiration of the Holy Spirit Against you God and you alone have

I sinned and done what's evil in your sight? That's pretty incredible Definitely sobering for us

David Then says this and this to hunters point of what he opened with As far as I'm concerned

I can end here It says this a broken and contrite heart you will never despise verse 17 the sacrifices of God are a broken spirit a

Broken and contrite heart or God you will not despise there has never been in the history of the universe a

Truly repentant person who has ever not found anything but full forgiveness in God hmm pretty incredible What a great note to end on Thank you

Everybody for joining us for the point taken podcast podcast where we make and take spiritual and biblical questions and chat it up Remember to join us next time when we talk about to be determined.