JP Sears and Abortion

Mr. Smalley, do you believe that abortion is moral? Oh boy. I'm glad I'm debating him instead of you. Welcome to Apologetics Live. We're here to answer your questions and challenges about God and the Bible.

Meet your hosts from Striving for Eternity Ministries, Andrew Rappaport, Dr. Anthony Silvestro, and Pastor Justin Pierce.

Introducing the JP Sears Abortion Discussion and the Cessationism Documentary

We are live, Apologetics Live, here to answer your biblical questions, challenges, whatever you may have for us tonight. Just go to ApologeticsLive .com, scroll down past where the video is to watch, down to where we have the StreamYard icon.

It's the little duck icon to be able to join and participate with any questions that you have. Now, I announced that we're going to have a special interview. This was planned a little bit last minute interview that we did because we have some time-sensitive matter with it, so we're going to start off with that, and then we're going to have on, basically we're going to take a look at a video that recently was out by J .P. Sears.

If you know him, he's a conservative comedian, and he has changed his view on abortion. He was pro-abortion. He is now, well, we're going to have to find out what he is now. We'll let him explain that, and then we're going to talk about the view and see whether it lines up with scripture, and we'll figure out what Dr. Silvestro and I think about what he has to say.

Dr. Silvestro, welcome to another Apologetics Live.

Yeah, looking forward to this one. It's going to be good.

Yeah, two heavy topics, two heavy topics.

Well, J .P.'s interesting when we get to him. He was actually pretty liberal when he first really came on the scene, and COVID changed his views like it did to a lot of liberals who recognize they have a problem with their worldview.

Yes, and he almost seems cancel-proof because he really has created a different model for the way he's doing things, and that has allowed him to continue even though they've tried to take him off. But anyway, I want to get right to the folks that we have backstage to an interview because of the fact that I know that at least one of them is traveling and doesn't have too much very good internet.

So first, Tim Cannon, welcome to Apologetics Live. And also, Les Lansphere, welcome. And so, are you guys there? How much for having us? There we go. I think Tim, I see a spinning circle, so we might have just lost Tim.

We thought Les' internet was going to be the bad one. So, Les, as I said to you, I'm prepared for this interview. I have my nice coffee cup here for Spirit and Truth. I wonder, Les, what is that? Spirit and Truth?

Okay, well, I know we have a delay with Les. Okay, well, I'll describe his previous film. So, Les has done two films. One is called Calvinist, and the other was Spirit and Truth. And I had the privilege of being able to help out with that one a bit.

And with that, we also have Tim Cannon. Tim, I don't know as well. This is the first time he and I are really talking to each other, meeting each other. I guess we've been Facebook friends for a bit. But Tim has done a film called Logic on Fire.

And we're not here to talk about those two, but to let you know that they have done three films, three very well films, that have done well, as I'm seeing in the chat. People are saying Spirit and Truth was great.

Okay, Les, are you there? I see him playing with his mute. Oh, he's muted now. You there, Les? Okay, well, he'll jump in when he can. So, here's what's going on with the films that you guys have. I mean, let me start off, and Les can go back and listen to this afterwards, since he's traveling in the country where there is no Internet.

And he dropped out, so he must be having trouble. We'll see if he comes back in. You guys, Tim, you guys got together with Les. You originally, before COVID, you were planning a film, and COVID kind of put a stop to it.

Then you and Les started working together on a new film. And so, we want to be able to talk about this film, the content of the film, the purpose of it. And for the record, I was hoping that Les would be here.

Here, he comes back in. Let's see if he's here now. Les, are you there? This makes for great show, you know, dead airs. All right, well, Les, if you can hear us, just give a shout out when we can hear you, I guess.

All right, so, and let me just say for the record, Les and I got together. Yeah, we hear you now, Les. Good. Because I want to make sure I don't say anything wrong on this, so I want to make sure you hear this and can correct me.

But it would be fair to say, Les, that you and I started a friendship off on a rocky relationship. Would that be fair? Okay, I'll say he said yes. Right to me. Okay, yeah. Basically, what happened was I didn't know Les personally.

Les, I had some people that told me about Les and told me some bad things about him. And so, I just figured, okay, well, he sounds like a character. I don't want to be around. He heard some bad things about me and figured I was a character he didn't want to be around.

And then we got to meet each other and realized, wait, you know, the things we heard about each other weren't true. And not only were the things we heard not true, but we actually got along really well.

And so, I've been really glad to see the last two films he had done. I'll be honest, Tim, I haven't seen your film yet. Sorry.

Well, it's actually not my film. I can tell you, David Lovie, who can't be here tonight, who's the co-director along with us, he was a producer on Logic on Fire. He was on the board of the Martin Lloyd-Jones Trust for almost 15 years and knows the Lloyd-Jones family intimately and was approached about making that movie, which ultimately became Logic on Fire.

And that's how I met David, was at Together for the Gospel 2018. And that was when we said, hey, we should make another movie. And we should make a movie about Beth and Lloyd-Jones, because his wife was just as spectacular.

And then, like you said, COVID hit, and here we are with a movie about cessationism, because we thought, hey, controversy sounds awesome.

Yeah, because there's no such thing as controversy, right? So, let me start off. We now know Anthony didn't mute his phone. Tim, let me start off this way, if I could. I want to play the trailer for the film.

Would that be all right? Yeah, absolutely. Let me just share that. And we'll play the trailer for you guys of this new documentary that's coming up.

If somebody has the gift of miraculous healing, surely all he needs to do is to prove it. But let's face it. We've been battling with COVID, and the so-called miracle workers went into hiding together with us.

Cessationism is the view that certain miraculous gifts that stood as signs of an apostle, speaking in tongues, healing, prophecies, interpretation of tongues, gifts like that ceased with the apostles.

Cessationism has fallen out of favor because commitments to the authority of Scripture has fallen out of favor.

If you turn on Christian TV, you don't see expositors of Scripture, John MacArthur or Steve Lawson. You see Joel Osteen, Joseph Prince, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer, Paula White. That's who you see because that's the mainstream.

Speaking in tongues. You're going to speak out of your spirit. Don't worry about what it sounds like. Our understanding of speaking in tongues must be guided by the Scriptures, not our feelings.

They were known languages that were capable of interpretation, and not everybody speaks in tongues.

If God speaks, it must be infallible, inerrant, and authoritative. And the Lord said to me, Will you howl for me? I said, Don't ask me to do that, Lord. There's no longer the need for the gift of prophecy, speaking forth divine revelation from God.

We have now the whole counsel of God. This word is the final word. The apostolic gifts have gone. They were never intended for our generation. We have everything that we need from the Holy Spirit today.

It's hard to get anyone who's gone through that to come back and take a serious look at faith in Christ focused on the gospel, rather than focused on these phony miracles.

All right, so that is, as I close this down, that's the trailer for your new film, Tim. So let's talk about this film. It was, this is something that is a Kickstarter project, so we want to encourage folks that want to support this film.

I'm going to, just before you start talking about it, go over to kickstarter .com in another tab of your window that you're watching. Don't skip us, but go to Kickstarter and go search for sensationalist, C-E-S-S, not sensationalism, but ceasing.

I always have a hard time with that word. But go and check that out because what we want you to do is fund this. Now, right now, I'm going to give you the current. I wanted to have this ready to see. It is right now 63 funded and we have 16 days to go.

So folks, what we're hoping for is that by the end of this show, that's 100 funded. That's the goal. So I really want to encourage folks to go. I said, Tim, I said this to Les in a text message and you ended up saying this on my Facebook wall when I just shared this Kickstarter.

I said to Les, this is the reason, my wall is the reason this film is needed. And you said, hey, look at your wall. This is the reason we need to do this film. So this is an issue that is so important for the church today for many reasons.

But I want to first let you explain what's the reason you wanted to do this film? What is your goal with it?

Yeah, so when we found ourselves at a crossroads with wanting to make another film, David, our co-director, he's a pastor just north of Chicago. And he said, man, there needs to be a movie about solid biblical pneumatology or who the spirit is.

What is the spirit doing? Because of what he was seeing in his church. I can tell you I became a cessationist after Strange Fire Conference. It was at 2013, I believe. My father-in-law, who's a pastor, called my wife and I and said, he lives just right down the road.

And he said, you need to come over and watch this. And so we started every night. We'd watch the sessions from the conference and I'd never really even considered it. I went to a church that was part of the Acts 29 network.

I come out of the new Calvinism, Young Restless Reformed. People see the tattoos and they assume I'm still that, but I go to a confessional 1689 Reformed Baptist Church where a lady plays piano. But I remember my pastor said in the membership class, well, we're charismatic with a seat belt on.

And that was fine to me. I didn't even really register really what that meant. I just remember him saying it. And then it was probably two years after that Strange Fire Conference. And I realized, well, what's the thing about a seat belt?

You can take it off. And oftentimes that happens. And so for us, it was a matter of, well, what is broadly evangelical? It's not cessationism. It's the idea that the gifts have continued and that all the things you're saying.

And one of the pushbacks that I'll just say we've gotten is, oh, we're just dealing with the fringe. Like if you saw in the trailer, you saw Joel Steen, you heard Sid Roth, and you saw some of these guys who they would call the fringe.

Our argument is, no, that's actually not the fringe. That's what people buy, just the masses. That's what they consume when it comes to continuationism. I wish continuationists were all John Pipers and Sam Storms and Wayne Grudems.

And so the reality is that's not what is the mainstream. As Justin Peters says in the trailer, this stuff is the mainstream. So our goal for this film is not to necessarily bounce around in a reformed echo chamber, but to go beyond that to what is broadly evangelical.

And it's what you saw in the trailer.

Yeah. I mean, the reality is, and I know a lot of people, we've seen it in our audience here, a lot of people that will say, I used to believe in continuationism. I came out of that. I myself had done that.

But the thing is that what is so frustrating is the number of people that let their experience be the thing that interprets scripture. Rather than looking at how do we interpret scripture, what are the rules of interpretation?

And so that's one issue. There's a greater issue than that, and that is it reveals that they don't believe in a sufficiency of scripture. Scripture is not enough. Okay, I have my Bible, but I need something more.

I need a word from the Lord. I need some gift that gives me an edge on other believers that makes me feel like I'm more spiritual. And do not think that that's not what most of this is about. And why I think tongues, the speaking of some gibberish, because it's not really the biblical view of languages, but the reason why I think so many speak of gibberish and claim it's angelic is because there's no way to prove it wrong.

If I give a prophecy, that we can prove wrong if it comes false. I mean, the Word of Faith guys, or sorry, the New Apostolic Reformation guys admit that they're only 80 to 85 accurate. Yeah, I think Mike Bickle said that.

Yeah. Yeah. So if they're only 80 to 85 accurate, then we know they're a false prophet, period. And they try to make excuses for that, saying there's different kinds of prophecies and play word games, but that is a testable gift.

It's when you're speaking in a language, a known language, it's a testable gift. And this is the thing that Justin Peters brought up when he had you on his show, on his Didache podcast, is the fact that when you first saw the people in 1905 when this first started, this was something that they really believed they had known languages, and they sent people to China.

Justin actually had, you know, I don't know if he shared this with you when you guys did recordings, but in his latest Clouds Without Water that he's producing, he actually showed my wife, and my wife is from Hong Kong, the woman he mentions there who went to China supposedly knew Chinese, and she had written Chinese that she said she wrote in Chinese.

And so Justin calls me up, says, look, I'm going to send something to you for your wife, but I need to be on video. I want to see her reaction. And so I get her in, we're on camera. He sends this to me, he goes, Yim, someone says this is Chinese.

Can you tell me if this is Chinese? And she looks at it, she goes, Justin, that's chicken scratch. So he's like, so you're saying that's not Chinese? She's like, no, no, it's not Chinese.

Well, you know what it reminds me of? It reminds me of when Joseph Smith had those tablets that, or those scrolls that, what did he say? The Book of Abraham? Book of Abraham. And it was what, did he call it?

It's Reformed Egyptian. Reformed Egyptian. That's exactly what that sounds like. And it's like, you can make the, you can just say that until you go to China and you realize, oh, I'm not speaking Chinese.

So they, I believe, was it MacArthur in his Strange Fire book? I remember reading that, coming back and realizing, we're not speaking Chinese, so what are we speaking?

Oh, it must be angelic. It must be angelic, because we can't be wrong in our experience. See, that's the thing. The experience becomes the sufficiency. It's the sufficiency of experience instead of sufficiency of scripture.

What's at the heart of that? It sounds like pride. Well, yeah, I would agree. Or demons. Both. Well, okay, so now with that, Anthony, I mean, there's going to be a ton of people that are going to say, how could you say such a thing?

That's, I mean, it is interesting. I was told that I'm, you know, I'm demonic because I don't believe that the gift of languages continues to today, which is really kind of funny, because, you know, all I did was quote, he said, there's no passage of scripture that says that tongues will cease.

And I said, 1 Corinthians 13, 8 to 13. That's all I said. And he told me I'm demonic. I'm like, for quoting, or even not even quoting, just citing a passage of scripture, you know, like, okay. And I think that's the reason why this film is so important, because so many of these people, so many of these people are so tied into this because of their emotion, their experience, that the Bible takes a lesser stand and their experience becomes primary.

Chris Hough is saying, brothers, sisters, fund this project ASAP. And I agree. Go to Kickstarter. This is a Kickstarter. So let me let folks know, because if any of you are not familiar how Kickstarter works, Kickstarter is a platform where, for Tim and the other guys producing this film, if they don't reach their goal, where their goal is $100 ,000, and some people are going, wait, that's a ton of money.

That sounds like a lot of money until you realize how much goes into this. They got to travel all over to get all the interviews, things like that. There's actually, you guys on Kickstarter give the breakdown.

45 of this goes to production of the film, 10 toward equipment, 20 toward travel, 15 towards donor gifts. And because when you do a Kickstarter, you get gifts that they have to give and then 10 to Kickstarter.

So 25 of what's being raised is going to Kickstarter directly or indirectly, right? It's going to the people that are funding it and things like that. So this is something that takes a lot of money to do.

And the way Kickstarter works is if they don't get fully funded in 16 days, they get nothing. So your credit card doesn't get charged until they're fully funded. So there's a time limit. We have two weeks, folks, two weeks to get the word out.

And that's why I'm encouraging you right now to go to kickstarter .com, go search for cessationism, get that start. First off, fund it, help fund it. And I'm going to say, I would never ask you guys to do something I have not done myself.

I am a backer of this film, okay? We being Striving for Eternity, we have our board meeting this week. One of the things we're going to discuss is as a ministry backing this because we want to get this out there, okay?

So this is something I feel very strongly about. And if they can't get fully funded, it may not happen.

Or at least not happen through Kickstarter. All right? Go back to ground zero and start over again and regroup. And I will say it's funny. One of the comments, they tell you don't ever read the comments, but I have to read the comments.

I can't help myself. And that's how I found out you're demonic, by the way. I got a comment from one of my posts that said I'm asking for more money than Benny Hinn. Well, one, that tells me you don't know Benny Hinn very well.

And like you said, $100 ,000. Once we break it down, especially right now with the way gas prices are, travel prices, all that stuff, we're making a movie on a shoestring budget for sure.

Flights have tripled. I mean, this is not going to be an easy thing to do. And so first off, I'm just saying we really want to get... I'm asking right now for everybody to go to that site right now, fund it, and then share it.

Okay? Get the word out. Share this with everyone you know. Now look, some people are going to say, well, and this is where I wish Les was on. I'm having the cup here for the last film he did. One of the things Les and I talked about, his film, Spirit and Truth, I thought was excellent.

I disagree with the conclusion he makes. He and I had a long talk about this. Like how could you fund a film and help me do this when you disagree with it? I said, you know, it's dealing with the regulative principle.

And in worship, I told him I'm a dispensational, so I believe in the regulative principle when it comes to Bible interpretation. So see, I do believe in the regulative principle. I just do it with hermeneutics.

The world would be a better place if everyone did that, really. It would be, it would be. By the way, I should say Les sent me a message because he couldn't, his thing, he said, he said that he couldn't get connected.

So he says, he says, yeah, we started off rocky, but nothing but love now. I'm there in spirit with you. So. Yeah, and truth. But the thing is that I knew Les' work to know that he was not going to misrepresent the position.

And I may not agree with the position to know that the proper view of a position is better to have out there than to have a position that just does a straw man argument, which is what we see a lot of.

And if you think about this, you know, I want folks think about, and those who are watching live can put it in the chat. Think about the last book you have seen dedicated to the Holy Spirit that is not from a charismatic perspective.

The last one I could think of is Ryrie, Charles Ryrie, Holy Spirit. That's the only one I could actually think of offhand of a book dedicated to the Holy Spirit in a hundred years. It's the charismatics that have taken over and so many people avoid the personal Holy Spirit because they don't want to seem charismatic.

And I guess it's almost time we take that back. And I think some of that is going to be what this film ends up doing,.

Is taking some of that back. Well, I want to say that we, you know, I've had some friends of mine that are not just charismatic, but a dear friend of mine is a Pentecostal and he's shown me more support in this with encouraging text messages, liking and loving the posts.

I don't know if he's given or not, but he said, brother, I trust that you're going to handle your position with care and you're not going to mishandle how you represent the other side. And I said, no, that's our goal is the truth.

Now there will be people that think we're mishandling the other side. That's going to happen. But to know that I have brothers that are charismatics and Pentecostals that are supporting. My father who passed away in February, he was a continuationist up until the day he passed away.

And we talked about this. He watched, you know, the interviews that we did record to get to this place and he supported me in it. And so it's the most pushback we've actually gotten is from our own reform circle.

That's actually what I've seen. So why is that? I'm curious. Well, what you're seeing is, and they would push back against this, but it's the new Calvinism movement that came up in the late 90s, early 2000s that really brought continuationism into reformed theology.

You saw it more walking hand in hand. Jeremy Walker, a pastor out of Crawley, England, wrote a book actually critiquing the new Calvinism movement. And he himself is a reformed Baptist. And he's been on platforms with many of those guys who would be in that new Calvinism movement.

But he was showing how some of that stuff came into what we call the reformed resurgence or the reformed world as we know it now. So I believe that's where it came in with guys like Wayne Grudem, D .A. Carson, John Piper, Sam Storms.

You know, I've got all their books on my bookshelf. I've taken a lot of great things from all those guys. But what we've also seen come in with them is this idea of the continuationism of the gifts.

So let me deal with some that we had come in. So I have an email that came in, someone that couldn't watch live. A lengthy email, so I'm going to just kind of paraphrase some of it. This person gives a little bit of their background.

They were involved in continuous churches, basically from Strangefire, much like you, Tim. Strangefire. And then finding out about Justin Peters came out of that. They explained that, you know, having found, after finding Justin, they found us here.

So the person says, So I share my past to ask for your help. I have a brother in Christ who disdains cessationists. He believes it is we who are creating the disunity in the church and must be corrected.

We have conversations from his side, or conversations that come from his side they claim are demeaning and hurtful. At this point, I don't know. At this point, that certain spiritual gifts have ceased and the only proof I have heard is the fact that as time has gone on, the Book of Acts no longer sees miracles performed by Paul.

An example of Paul telling Timothy to drink a little wine for his stomach's sake. So basically, they're saying that they have, the only argument they hear is we don't see a continuing in Acts. And so, I think that is an argument some people make.

You've already started doing some of the, gotten some of the filming done. What are some of the arguments you're hearing? Is that the only argument that gets made for how we know that certain gifts have ceased?

You mean the argument that, like,.

We're ceasing with Paul? Yeah, things like the fact that Paul, you know, Paul was able to heal at one point. We see in Philippians, I go outside of Acts, but I would go to Philippians because there Paul himself is with someone who's near death.

He describes in Philippians that Paphroditus is near death and he didn't heal him. You know? So, the argument that they make is just, well, we see later in time and later in the Book of Acts, healings aren't happening.

Therefore, that's the only proof that they ceased. Is that the only argument that we have.

That these gifts have ceased? No, I mean, you know, when we went up in January to Michigan and interviewed Dr. Joel Beeke, and, you know, he came from a position throughout church history where we see, you know, there are a few guys who mention some, quote-unquote, miraculous things that have happened, but, you know, a lot of those things can't be substantiated and a lot of it is there's a lot of superstition that's tied into it regarding the Roman Catholic Church.

And so, a big emphasis for this film will also be taking a very strong stance in church history, which a lot of the pushback we've also gotten is, oh, well, what about this in church history? What about that?

And Dr. Beeke kind of goes into some of those things in his interview we did. And that's one of the unfortunate things when you interview these guys. You're only going to see small portions of it. It's like, I'm hoping that we're going to have so much that we're going to have lots of extras and lots of things that we might even be able to break it down.

You know, interviews that we go further into tongues, healings, prophecies, those types of things. And a lot of people often, the argument is, we as cessationists don't believe in any miracles. That's, it's preposterous.

There wouldn't be salvation if there wasn't miracles. And our position in this film is that the Holy Spirit is at work. And the way I heard it best was in the common means of grace, what goes on in God's daily providences.

So I don't know if that answers the question, but I'm able to run off on tangent.

Sorry about that. Yeah, no, well, I think even in the trailer, we have the answer. I forget who it was that says we have a completed canon.

Right? Yeah, Joel Beakey says, you know, and this word is the final word. And then David Wolin, who is the chief executive director of Reformation Heritage Books. You know, we got him in this movie. He's a pastor.

First and foremost, that's what he is. He's a pastor of a local church. And he talks about, you know, we have everything we need from the Holy Spirit.

That's what sufficiency is. You know, on my rap report podcast in about a week or two, actually two or three weeks, we did a joint podcast and we're going to go through the importance of the sufficiency of scripture and hermeneutics with the guys from Truth Be Known.

But that is the real thing, is that there's just people are looking for something outside of scripture. And scripture, I believe, made it clear. First Corinthians 13, 8 -13. It says that this gift, speaking of languages, along with prophecy and wisdom will cease.

And I think it's very clear that it is when the canon is complete. Now there's people that will argue, no, that's end times. That's when Christ returns. And they base it by two things they base it on.

One is to say when we see someone face-to-face. Because they'll say, we see Christ face-to-face, looking in a mirror dimly versus seeing face-to-face. And they'll say, see, that has to be second coming.

And then they'll say, well, see, it says to know in part or to know as fully known. We're only going to know fully when we're in heaven, when, you know, Jesus comes back. But that's violating a rule of hermeneutics.

You're taking something that is meant to be an illustration of a point and using it as a literal. So those are not saying what so many of the people try to say. And what are those three gifts? Those three gifts deal with revelation.

What deals with revelation? Oh, the canon. So what that whole text is saying is that you have something that is partial that comes to completion. And these gifts, revelatory gifts, are necessary until that thing comes to completion.

Well, the issue becomes if that's the second coming, you know, then we would need to keep writing scripture, if that's what it's saying. We would need more scripture. But the canon's closed. We have a completed canon.

We don't need any more. And if we don't need any more revelation, why would we need any more of the revelatory gifts? We wouldn't. You know, I think it answers it. And I know that, you know, my friend Paul Taylor commented, you know, that he believes that that passage proves that tongues continue until the end times.

But this is why hermeneutics are so important. Because if you don't know the rules, you don't know you're breaking them.

Right? Well, what do we often see when we see tongue speakers? What do we never see? Interpreters. Almost never. I've almost never seen. A friend of mine, Lisa, she's a producer in this. She's helping us out a lot.

And she told a story of a pastor friend of hers going to some charismatic revival, tent revival thing. And he said, I have a word from the Lord. And he stood up and he spoke in a tongue. And an interpreter stood up and interpreted it.

And he said, no, you're wrong. I just read to you from first Corinthians in Greek. And you didn't know that. Now, she posted that in actually one of the comments. And someone said, oh, well, that's being deceiving.

It's, you know, he's proving a point that this is clearly not the same tongue speaking we see and read in scripture.

The tongue speaking that we saw in scripture was known human languages. The only passage, there's only one passage anyone can turn to, to argue that there's an angelic language that we can speak. That's first Corinthians 13 one.

And if you look at it, what it says is that it seems at least to imply that, yeah, there might be, but let me read it. If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I become a noisy gong and a clanging cymbal.

Now the emphasis there on is on love, not the gift. So he's making a comparison between speaking in languages versus having love for one another. He's saying love is better. It better to have love than just sound like a bunch of people going, make a noise.

But here's the thing. Is he actually saying that there's an angelic language? Well, if you say yes, if you're taking that literal, then within the same context, we have to take the very next verse literal, which says, if I have the gift of prophecy and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

Well, if you knew all mysteries and had all knowledge, Tim, what would we call you? Call me God. That's right. Do we really believe that Paul was omniscient? Could Paul be omniscient? No. So the only way to explain is Paul's exaggerating in verse two, which means he's also exaggerating in verse one.

It's the same exact, you have the same exact parallelism here. He's just, it's both dealing with love, but he's changing the gifts that they're claiming they have with tongues versus the knowledge.

Well, this is also the same thing the cults do. They went to China. They thought they're speaking Chinese. Turns out they're not. Okay, let's regroup. What can we do? Okay. Tongues of angels. That's what it is.

It's got to be miraculous. It's got to be angel tongues, whatever that is. Angels like to drive Hondas and Kias. And it's, I mean, it is the same and it's the same thing that the Jehovah's Witnesses do or the Mormons have done.

And frankly, when you get away from the sufficiency of scripture, what also do you have? You're leading into the path of liberalism, progressive theology. Yeah. You're not far from it.

And you mentioned what the Mormons do. And here's the thing most people don't know historically. We have to understand that prior to 1905, Azusa Street, we did not see within Christianity this normalization of speaking in tongues, whatever you want to call them to be.

When they first in 1905 started thinking they had the gift of tongues, they thought they were known human languages. That's important to know because where did we see the gibberish? We saw the gibberish in the cults and the occult.

We saw it in Mormonism, 1800s. It was the Mormon speaking gibberish. We see it in the false religions of Hindu Kudalini. We see this in the occult of the mantras, the New Age move. All this stuff is where we saw it before 1905.

And so what you ended up seeing is when they came back and realized they didn't know Chinese and these other languages and got embarrassed, they instead of giving up because this is you mentioned pride earlier, Tim.

The thing is when someone builds a platform, and folks, you can see this even today, when someone builds a platform from something, they get known for something, they want to keep that platform going.