My Interview with Nic from Ukraine

Hello ladies and gentlemen, my name is Justin Peters. I hope that you and your family are doing well today. I want to thank you so much for joining me for this podcast. So about five weeks ago. I put up a video on my youtube channel Entitled my thoughts or reflections on Ukraine.

I put it up right as the war there started. And I just talked about some of the people that I met back in 2019 few years ago when I was in Ukraine and I was doing some teaching at the seminary. We actually had a strange fire Ukraine version I guess conference and Met some wonderful wonderful people there in Ukraine so I shared some of those photographs and some videos from my time there and Since that video was put up.

Some of you have left comments a few of you have emailed asking have you are there any updates? Have you heard from any of your friends in Ukraine? And I have heard from a couple of them. Manny who I mentioned in my previous video he's a guy who took some of my teaching and translated them into different languages and got them out into Iran Afghanistan and Tajikistan.

So he is out of Ukraine now. He is in Berlin and I think in the process of trying to come to the United States. He and his family. So they're safe and but just a couple of days ago. I was able to make content Contact with Nikolai Liliovsky.

Nick for short Nick was one of my translators while I was there in Ukraine. One of the best translators I've ever had and just an outstanding outstanding young man just a super super nice guy, but I was able to make contact with him through the help of James White and So we did an interview together just a couple of days ago.

I'm recording this on April 6. We did the interview April the 4th. So I'm gonna give this to you and let you watch it. I think it will be a great encouragement to you. I will say that the audio here is kind of low.

So you might want to click up your volume a Few notches there so you can hear it, but I don't think it should be too much of a problem. My audio was louder. His was lower. And so I did my best to try to Equalize that and you'll also notice that for some reason when we did this on zoom.

The zoom camera it did not record me. It recorded my voice, but not my video so you'll hear me ask some questions, but you won't see me, but Whatever. That's fine Nick is I want you to see in here anyway, so This will be a great encouragement to you.

Please please do pray for Nick and the other brothers and sisters in Christ in Ukraine who are right now just going through things that None of us here and in the West can even imagine but God is sovereign and you will see Nick's just unshakable faith in God's sovereignty and his goodness and through the midst of these just unimaginable trials God is using these things for the furtherance of his kingdom and his gospel.

So Without any further delay, here's Nick. Well Nick. Um, I tell you what, let's we can go ahead and begin Nick thank you so much for joining us brother and take a few minutes just to Let people know who you are a little bit about yourself your family.

Maybe even if you would like to touch on your testimony a little bit.

Sure. Sure. Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure Just following your ministry before we met in person, but now that we night that you've you've come to Ukraine. I think we met when at Shepard's conference before you came.

Yes. Yes before so so It's a pleasure to be with you. Thank you for inviting me. So my name is Nikolai Liliovsky or McCullough in Ukrainian. I am 35 years old. I was born and raised in Kiev, Ukraine and Became a Christian when I was 15 years old.

I was raised in a non-believing family. I was invited to a Christian Short-term missions trip summer camp put together by Grace Community Church the church that I'm a member of was founded by a Missionary from Grace Community Church along with some Ukrainian Ukrainian guys and so the first year that they started the church They had a team from John MacArthur's Church come during the summer and do English as a second language class for two weeks and then a softball camp and so by God's grace and his providence I ended up there and I heard the gospel for the first time and God has convicted me of my sin and Brought me to repentance and so in 2002 that happened in 2002.

So since then I've been a part of Grace Bible Church in Kiev, Ukraine where I now serve I On the leadership team. I preach and teach regularly and just try and serve in any way that I can. I'm also a Faculty member at Grace Bible Seminary a training center of the Masters Academy International.

We've been training pastors for many years to Exposit God's Word faithfully so that's also a privilege for me to serve in that capacity and So Now, you know, we find ourselves in these difficult circumstances, but God is good.

He's in control. We believe in his sovereignty and this is a great opportunity to practice what we Believe and I've been taking our church through the book of Psalms and Let me tell you Everybody says that the book of Psalms, you know all these Emotions that the psalmist is expressing about fear.

Worry about the armies invading being in danger, but trusting God it all is understood completely different now. Right before you know these these wars and conflicts and enemies and the wicked, you know.

All of these things are kind of like personal conflicts or some kind of emotional turmoil but now, you know, it's so real as you know, we're being invaded and there's explosions heard everywhere and we see see the aftermath of Of these cities that have been decimated so so but it you know, God's Word is very encouraging and Yeah, God God is God is still at work in our hearts and lives even in these circumstances so.

So we have much to be thankful for. Wow.

Yeah, I guess you know reading those songs it it seems kind of you seem kind of I guess detached in a sense. Because we we haven't been able to relate to being in war, but you're there now you're in you're in the midst of it.

Yeah, and I think everybody, you know, everybody would say that they love the book of Psalms and obviously it's very encouraging and very practical to people in all circumstances of life, but to think you know that war has been such a such a big part of people's lives for Most of human history and you know, yeah, I I never thought that in the 21st century living in the center of Europe We would have a war and much less with a nation.

That is to us like a brotherly nation where we have, you know similar culture similar language, right? It is happening. It's just completely I Think that most people in Ukraine, you know didn't see this coming and it's still hard to believe I Talk to people every day who say that it's just hard to believe that all of this is happening.

Yeah I know it's gotta seem so surreal because I I was watching the news and in the days leading up to the before the war Started and life was normal. And that you're in Kiev, right? You're are you in the in the middle of Kiev right now?

So I am in Kiev in the city of Kiev. Where I mean, this is my apartment building. Okay in one of my rooms very traditionally Ukrainian background, you know, we have carpets hanging on the walls. That's it.

Yeah, so we're in the northeast corner northeast corner. Imagine the city of Kiev as a square. We're in the northeast all of the fighting and everything that you hear about Irpin and Bucha. That's in the northwestern just outside of the northwestern part of Kiev, so it's maybe maybe Depending, you know on how you count at 25 to 40 miles away from where we are right, no and In our you know leading up to the war.

Everything was fine and You know, we stayed here and by God's grace. We haven't had a lot of we haven't seen any like fighting, you know. Going on with their own eyes. There hasn't been any troops entering Kiev, but you know, there's been a lot of Rockets fired in Kiev several has struck several rockets struck.

You know civilian buildings big apartment complexes like, you know when there's thousands of people living in them so but but since the withdrawal of the Russian army from from this at least this part of our country for The last two days where we haven't heard any explosions or anything like that.

Okay, so the last couple of days have been relatively quiet.

Yeah in our in our part of the country. Yeah, as far as I understand, you know, there there are peace negotiations and in the last last few days the Russian Illegation said that they will pull out and will not try to take Kiev at this time.

There's not a ceasefire. There's still you know war going on in the east and the south. But at least here in the northern part of the country there is no. You know the troops Russian troops have withdrawn back to the border.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well just in the last day or so the the town of in my butcher. Am I saying that correct butcher? Just horrific horrific scenes out of butcher. How how far is that from you and do you do you know any of those folks in butcher?

Well, that's about 30 30 miles from here. Yeah, I mean, we know butchers like a Suburb of Kiev basically, yeah, you know, it's outside of Kiev. It's but but a lot of people commute there and things like that.

So. Yeah, it seems like it's just war crimes everywhere, you know, there's dead bodies just laying on the streets mass graves. In many buildings they go into the basements and they find bodies that have been tied and seems like they were kept there for days and tortured and.

No, yeah, it's just Inhumane and it seems like in most cases It was because they're either trying to rob these people, you know extort them for money. Because there's also footage now that they've seen that these troops that have returned back.

Yeah in Belarus because there's a lot of troops coming from Belarus. They are shipping that like they go to a UPS or a FedEx and they ship the things that they stole from Ukraine. Back home using, you know, their passports and addresses and things.

Wow. So it seems like a lot of it has been motivated by you know sorted gain and just Trying to a lot of people take their money I'm sure some of it had to do with trying to find out, you know. What the Ukrainian army is doing and things like that?

But yeah the aftermath that they left after I mean, it's just Unspeakable crimes against humanity and war crimes and I'm sure that's going to be. That's going to be something that the international community is going to deal with.

Long after the war is over. Yes, trying to bring those people to justice right, right.

Yeah, I hope they are. And if if they're not brought to justice in this life, of course, certainly they will be in the next. Yeah.

Yeah, but that that you know, that's just a small glimpse of what's going on because Basically any part of the country that has been invaded by the Russian army. It's like that, you know, there's yeah, there's civilian atrocities done to civilians in small villages.

And anyway, because as far as I understand the the people that are fighting on the side of the Russian army a lot of them Are either people that are doing it to avoid? prison sentences to avoid conviction or People who are doing it To make money, you know contractors.

Huh contractors contractors and stuff so so it seems like you know, the There's a lot of inhumane treatment but at the same time, you know to be fair there are you know I spoke to some people who have eyewitness accounts where some Russian troops are trying to help Ukrainians evacuate.

You know. They would use their tanks or their armored vehicles to put civilians and they take them to extraction points from you know cities that have been Surrounded and things like that. So really Not not every single Russian soldier is You know moral Moralist criminal.

Yeah person. I mean that war is ugly and you know, those kinds of war crimes probably happen. Yeah in the world where you have such massive war. But. But yeah, I mean Ukrainian people are shocked. There's they're angry.

I feel like this will sow discord between the two nations for many generations and unfortunately. Yeah, it has really been dividing in the church as well so You say it's been dividing the church yeah, because so basically since 2014 when Russia annexed Crimea and kind of started this proxy war in the east.

There's been a lot of animosity between Russian and Ukrainian Christians all over the world. Because you know, there's Russian propaganda and they've been saying that Ukraine is overrun by nationalists Nazis, you know and Who are who basically what what we are seeing in those cities is what Russia has been telling their people for eight years is going On in every city in Ukraine.

They they were saying that the current regime in Ukraine is You know exterminating its own people based on you know What language they're speaking or something like that? And so many people in Russia believe that what's happening here now is Just recompense for the atrocities that Ukrainian government has been, you know perpetrating on their own people.

And unfortunately many Christians are caught up in that and they believe that you know This is God's judgment on the nation and it's regrettable that some innocent people have to suffer and Christians have to suffer but you know people are getting what they deserve and and obviously, you know Ukrainian people are Appalled by that and very hurt and then they try to argue and prove things and you know I think we've seen even in the West and in the United States, you know how politics divide people and how media can brainwash people and and how people believe things so easily and.

So so, you know, we have we have been greatly Affected by that and there's been a lot of a lot of division amongst the people Ukrainian Christians are demanding from Russian Christians to go out and demonstrate Protest to to speak against the war to speak against Vladimir Putin.

But you know in Russia They just passed a law where if you speak against the government or even if you call this you in Russia They call this a special operation. They forbidden to call this a war. So if you do that, you you can be prosecuted and get a sentence up to 15 years in prison.

Yeah, and so so people they're afraid and I think there's gonna be a big fallout for the Christians in Russia as well who are not, you know Orthodox who have some connections with you know Protestant organizations in the West and things like that.

So they're afraid and and Unfortunately, there's been a lot of judging back and forth going on back and forth and Not a lot of graciousness and kindness. Yeah, yeah.

Well Nick and in some of the texts that you and I exchanged leading up to this interview You said that is as horrible as all of this is you have had. It has presented some opportunities. For you and in furtherance of the gospel.

Tell us a little bit about that. What's been going on in those. The positive encouraging thing.

Is that I think the churches have rallied together to really put? Put Christ's character on display of love and service and. So there's and not just Christians in Ukraine, but just even in the surrounding countries and even you know Christians around the world are praying for us sending their support in any way that they can so that you know, that's been very very encouraging and Speaking from you know our experience with what's been going on here We have the opportunity, you know to share the gospel with people who I guess are more open to talk about spiritual things in light of you know death that they see and yeah and and then their Anxiety and fear and things like that.

So so we can just share gospel on the streets and we have some humanitarian aid that we have received from our brothers and sisters in Germany and so we are giving out some food and and some supplies and things like that and we're giving out gospel tracks and we're inviting people to church and Last Sunday.

We had three people three people come to the church and and hear the gospel and have some good conversations. And things like that so and and you know, that's going on everywhere I think the church is really trying to use this as an opportunity to Point the people who are desperately seeking peace toward the Prince of Peace.

Yeah indeed.

We know Romans 8 28 It doesn't say that all things are good because all things are not good. But God and his providence does work out all those things that in and of themselves are not good together for the good.

And. You said in one of your texts you said that you've had some refugees In your in your church and you've been able to. Yeah.

So in our church, you know, we have our church is adjacent to our seminary. And so we have some Like places where we house students while they're in session and so we Convert that a little bit into places where refugees who are fleeing places where?

The most severe battles are raging, you know. We would house them for a few days and feed them and and then help them send them off on their way to wherever they're going. Yeah, you know we've had good, you know, we had a good opportunity to share the gospel with them in a group setting and as well and a personal setting and At least the people that we've spoken with a lot of them are, you know, very Eastern Orthodox or works works oriented in their thinking.

Yeah in their relationship with God. So we try to explain to them, you know that no one is justified by works. It's only by faith by God's grace in Christ alone and so so, you know, we try to Give them out our contacts and encourage them if you have any more questions, or you know.

You want you need any help? We have brothers sisters all over the world that can help and so they seemed very appreciative very open. So hopefully, you know some gospel seeds have been Sown and you know, it's up to God to to save those whom he has chosen.

Yeah. Hey, man. Hey, man.

Well, um, so so. Nick I guess you're you've still got power you. With with so many people that have fled are the are the stores still open? I mean, can you go to the grocery store? I mean, you're obviously getting food and water, but how how is how is that working?

So in the first few days obviously, the infrastructure was overwhelmed and there are severe shortages of food gas, you know, there's no money in ATMs and a lot of the banks have like Canceled credit cards or you know did not allow people to buy use credit cards and things like that.

But in a few days to kind of stabilize a little bit and stores were able to get you know necessity. Products that are necessary and now, you know more and more stores are opening more and some businesses are opening.

There's no big lines and pharmacies anymore before, you know, there's lines everywhere. Yeah, but you still were able we still by God's grace, you know, we still had everything that we needed. We need we have food.

We have an electricity. We had water. We had running water so in Kiev, you know, nothing was disrupted but. You know in cities that were affected by the fighting directly like we have a brother in Chernihiv I think you actually went to his church Igor.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Uh-huh yes, so so Chernihiv is on the way to Kiev from from the northern part and it has been. There's artillery and airstrikes on the city. Non-stop for almost two weeks half of the city has been destroyed.

Igor and his wife. Have spent more than a week in their cellar, you know, the makeshift bomb shelter. Yeah without running water electricity, you know. Wow or anything like that and Igor's brother-in-law got killed in one of the airstrikes.

Well, so that city has been really, you know, I mean those people have gone through some really really traumatic traumatic. Traumatic days and so just a few days ago Igor was able to evacuate from there and so he came in with his family with his wife and two daughters and they're staying with us at our church and Kind of like at first when they came you could tell that they've gone through something very very difficult but oh my goodness, they were able to recover a little bit, you know, take a hot shower for the first time in two weeks and.

And sleep without you know being bombarded. Yeah.

Okay, so he's he's up near you now. Igor is one. Yeah, okay. Okay. Yeah, I sure did go to his church just a precious precious man and his wife both sweet sweet folks.

Yeah, he stayed there as long as he could and. And you know their church in the beginning their church was hit by like a rocket and so the roof kind of collapsed on. They were still able to have services there and you know, they they they're they're being faithful.

Yeah. Yeah.

Nick, why do you think. I know we're kind of bouncing back from the physical to the spiritual here? But what when when the war started? I didn't expect Putin and the Russian forces to attack Civilians.

I figured he would want to at least to try to keep some kind of a modicum of you know whatever semblance of Goodwill with the rest of the world that he could and not attack Civilians, but but they're selling apartment buildings and hospitals and churches and they're murdering people in the streets.

Why are they doing this?

Yeah, I mean who knows. It seems like initially what the plan was Was to take Ukraine in three days that the operation was gonna last three days. Basically, I think he thought it was gonna be the same scenario as Crimea which was had a lot of ethnic Russian population and during the time of political instability Russia came in and Really without any fighting was able to take over that part of the country and as far as I understand Russia has been doing a lot of work with some politicians and and spending a lot of money in trying to invoke pro-russian tendencies In our society and then, you know turn people against the West and things like that and so I think Putin's advisors or his, you know intelligence officers or whoever they were because I know that there's been a lot of them who are fired Or in prison even now.

Claimed that Ukraine is ready to be taken and people will welcome the Russian soldiers as liberators. You know and and basically the Ukrainian army is very weak and is not able to resist And things like that.

So it was a severe miscalculation on his part I guess and so it seems like the first few days, you know, they Couldn't believe what was happening and Ukrainian people, you know. We were I could tell in the first few days were laughing and smiling that you know.

These Russian troops are coming and and you know They get lost and they run out of fuel and they don't know what they're doing. And so like hey, you know, do you want us to show you your way back to Russia?

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah yeah, and so so. Then you know as the war continued and it seemed like The Russian command They really didn't know what they're doing and they're pushing people just to be slaughtered you know by the Ukrainian army who to the surprise of the entire world was able to put up a good fight and you know, there's been a lot of a lot of military aid from European countries, you know anti-tank Missiles and you know things like that and Ukrainian army has been getting a lot of training and preparing for this since 2014.

Yeah, a lot of the guys have been fighting in the east and things like that. So it's not the same army that we used to have so they're able to put up Severe resistance and not really allow Russia to advance too much there's only been one area where they seem to have advanced and You know took over a region in the southern part of the country.

But they haven't really you know, they have not Gained any of the tactical advantages that they're hoping for and as I think as the frustration of the Russian army was building up as They were losing Thousands and thousands of troops.

I mean they've lost more Troops in the first two weeks of the war than the United States lost in Iraq and Afghanistan in 20 years yeah, so the casualties are so severe and there's you know, I think as frustration was mounting and The Ukrainians were not giving up the Ukrainian army was not giving up they wanted to use like the scare tactic of shooting at some civilian Buildings, you know, I wasn't as widespread as it is now so they first started, you know to try to I think frighten or you know Make make the army retreat or something like that, but that didn't happen.

And so eventually in time It just became indiscriminate bombing of like you said Civilian population maternity hospitals and if you listen to the Russian officials, you know They maintain that anything that has been attacked has been attacked for a good reason.

All of those objects are military objects for objects that the Ukrainian army is using To put their artillery or troops or things like that. And if there's any images of civilians getting hurt or you know Like the in Mariupol the maternity hospital with pregnant women, you know bleeding and dying.

Yeah, I said that it was all staged and it's Ukrainian propaganda. And so so, you know, obviously they're they're spreading their deception and Putting out all these lies, but I mean when it's so widespread when it's so Obvious what's going on?

The world looks at it and is, you know, shocked and and thankfully, you know, there's been a lot of Good responses against Russia and that these economic sanctions and all these oligarchs not being able to access their money Abroad, which I think is contributing to the fact that Russia is kind of scaling down Because at this point there is a no-win this is a no-win war for Russia not knowing yeah Putin there's absolutely no scenario in which he will be able to claim any sort of victory.

So Right. Yeah.

Right, which is kind of a scary thing because you you see logistically that he just he can't he can't occupy Ukraine and Control it militarily. He just can't do it and yet he continues. The fight continues the battle the attacks and so it makes you wonder what a man who is so detached from reality Will do in desperation to save face.

So.

Yeah, I mean, you know since he threatened the world with using nuclear weapons, you know, but I guess They're still talking about the Possibility of him using a tactical, you know nuclear weapon. Yeah on Kiev or something like that.

So, but hopefully hopefully, you know. You know, he can give the order but the people, you know it needs to go through the chain of command and people just not not do that because that is you know, That is madness and that is you know self.

Yeah. Yeah so, yeah, but it seems like at this point, uh the situation is going to be that they're just going to focus on those areas that they have sort of been trying to uh, Occupy since 2014 in the eastern part the so-called Donbass region with Donetsk and Lugansk and in the In the south near Crimea.

I think it's going to shift there and we'll see what's going to happen whether ukraine will. Agree, I think what it is now is that ukraine is not going to try and take those territories back by force.

So what ukraine wants is a ceasefire and a withdrawal of the ukrainian troops from the ukrainian territory. And then they would want to diplomatically Negotiate the status of those regions. Yeah, okay.

Yeah, actually the audio was better when you kind of leaned up there a little bit nick I could hear you a little bit better if you don't mind. Okay. Okay. Okay. Sorry. No problem. That's okay. That's okay um yeah, i'm glad you made the point a little bit ago a few minutes ago that uh, uh, not even all of the Russian soldiers are committed to this.

There's some of them are trying to help the ukrainian people some of them are are Apparently sabotaging their own equipment. I've heard reports of some russian soldiers uh killing their own commanders, you know because they're just Yeah.

So it's important that people understand that not. You know, not all russians are supportive of this, um Putin is a wicked wicked Man, but not all russian people are supportive of this. There are there are we have brothers and sisters in christ in russia as well when they um, how is greg white doing Are you still in touch with greg and the folks?

Yeah, so greg, you know, he stayed and we're serving.

Uh alongside each other at the church. Yeah. So as far as I know. The other missionary family is still in ukraine from grace community. So they're serving in their place. And so yeah, so greg greg and his wife have been serving faithfully at our church.

And coordinating Aid and things like that coming in from from our brothers and sisters in other countries and. And so so by god's grace we're all doing well.

And trying to do the best that we can in the circumstances to be faithful. So you're still having church every sunday.

Yeah, there was one time when we were not able to have church in the very beginning the first week of the war they implemented out of the blue this um curfew. For several days. No one was allowed to leave.

Uh leave the Uh. Leave their homes and go outside and that was like over the weekend. So we were kind of caught uh off guard with that. But then the next time when they did that We agreed that we would all come and stay at the church and live, you know live.

For for the few days that the curfew was yeah be at the church and spend that time together in prayer and then god's word so so. After that our services have not really been disrupted. Okay. Okay.

And in ukraine, you know, um. The spiritual climate overall in europe is very dark. There's not a lot of christians percentage. Why. Of course, there's not a lot of true christians percentage wise in this country, but but generally speaking europe is pretty dark spiritually, but ukraine is one of the more christian Countries, maybe the most christian country in europe.

Is that correct?

Well, they say that ukraine and romania put together have more evangelical christians than all of western europe and russia put together. Wow, so. So but even then, you know, like the population of ukraine is around 40 million people.

And by the most generous estimates, there are about two percent evangelical christians in ukraine. So that makes what eight hundred thousand eight hundred eight hundred eight hundred thousand people and that's a very generous.

You know estimate with any any all groups all protestant evangelical groups, so but yeah compared to compared to some of the countries, uh. In western europe and even in russia ukraine is considered to be the bible belt of europe.

So yeah. Yeah. Yeah so hopefully, you know. Some of some of this god will use for people who are fleeing and even maybe going to the west to to start new churches there and.

That's true, I mean that's exactly where I was about to head with. That is as horrible as all of this is some. A lot of genuine believers are leaving ukraine and they're going to other european countries poland and whatnot and they'll um.

Take the gospel with them, of course. Yeah, in fact, do you remember manny? Uh, did you know manny? He's a man that I met when I was there with you a few years ago. I think he's originally from iran. And yes, yes, yes, you remember.

Okay, well i've been in touch with him a little bit and he's managed to get out.

Yeah, good. Yeah. He's uh, he's been a student, uh at our school. Actually, uh after he left we started a program and he's been a student and he's been faithfully ministering in. Uh in different places around the world.

I'm not sure if he wants me to name these places, but you know, he's been trying to minister to persian. Persians. Yes places and things like that and so. So yeah, dear brother. And uh, I know that wherever he goes he will continue ministering.

Yeah, yeah.

Indeed. Well nick there there had to have been times where you have. Have you been? And there's has there been times when you've been fearful afraid. I mean it's When you hear explosions going off around you and you're not you don't know where the next one is going to be.

Is it?

Has it been scary for you? Yeah, I mean, of course, uh, I don't think anyone is prepared for this and you know. Sometimes these explosions are so close that you feel your insights, you know jumping up and things like really.

But yeah, so so sometimes when you know, you're just having conversations. I remember one time when we had the refugees in our church on sunday morning. And I think mr White was preaching greg was preaching and I was translating for him and there was an explosion really close and all of us.

Kind of like jolted and especially them you could see because they you know, they had non-stop bombardment. Yeah, you know, so they were like, whoa so yeah, so of course, um. You have you know those kinds of feelings.

Um but I don't know I mean honestly, I feel like humanly speaking you would be in a hopeless situation and It would be very difficult for you not to be depressed. But as believers, uh, you know we believe like you you said in romans 8 that um God knows best what's for us and all things work together for good to those who are called and those who love god and and so um.

So I just right before the war started the day before the war started in our school. We had chapel and I was preaching from second corinthians chapter 4 verses 16 through 18. You know where paul says that we don't lose heart because you know our outer man is decaying but the inner man is being renewed.

When we look not at the visible, but the invisible and these slight temporary afflictions, you know. They produce an eternal weight of glory and you know because everybody was kind of afraid. Rumors of wars and things like that not sure what's going to happen and I was just trying to encourage the people that you know we have to have the right perspective and.

Yeah, um by god's grace. I feel like at least people with people in our church we've been able to encourage them and help them understand that. Ultimately, you know, we are citizens of heaven. And god has prepared a home for us there and that is truly our home.

That's where we will be with him and um. You know the most important thing uh for us on earth is to be faithful to the lord and everything and be faithful to the end and so. So by god's grace, you know, we found a lot of encouragement in god's word I said in the book of psalms and other passages that talk about god being our refuge and you know Jesus said for us not to be afraid of those who can only kill the body but to be afraid Of the one who can.