John Piper on Critical Theory - Yikes.

All right, well, Pastor John Piper gave me a gift, and he decided to wade into the critical theory waters, complete with nuance and winsomeness and emotions and all of that kind of stuff. Now, I haven't seen this, but as you know, I've been on record many times as saying that, you know, John Piper, when it comes to complex issues and, you know, things that are more difficult than kind of basic foundational theology, he doesn't really do that well.

This is the guy who said that he wouldn't defend his wife from a would-be attacker because, you know, love your neighbor. You know, listen, I'm nothing against John. You know, again, I've gotten a lot of value from his books, but he's just not equipped for conversations like this.

So I have not seen this. I've heard a little bit about it. So let's see if I'm right. Let's see if I'm wrong. We're going to do a live reaction to this video on critical theory. Apparently there's a couple of videos coming, so you can tell that this is an important issue to Pastor John Piper.

So let's get a glimpse into his contribution here. I'm sure that what we're going to get is a little bit of winsome music to start us off. Let's see if I'm right. Of course he got the winsome music.

Well, last time I said we were taking the week of Thanksgiving off from the podcast to give you more time to listen to the—.

What a scam. This doesn't sound like Pastor John Piper.

Providence Book audiobook excerpts, and here we are back with Pastor John, who was led to record two special episodes for us. We are releasing them Monday. I love the animation back there. It makes it look like you're really—.

We're connecting all the dots here. This is complex thinking. The topic is critical race theory. It's a big one among evangelicals in 2020, and it comes up over and over again in the APJA inbox. About 50 emails have arrived in just the past year alone, all from listeners who basically just want to hear how Pastor John is thinking about CRT himself, and that is what we will do today and tomorrow.

These are longer than normal episodes, about 22 or 23 minutes each. Today, Pastor John addresses the relational side of the CRT debate. Tomorrow, he will address the root problem with CRT. I hope you can—.

All right.

Well, let me just say this, guys. Like, we have pushed this conversation. They're forced to react to us now. This is really good news that John Piper's addressing this, because, you know, a few years ago, nobody would ever talk about this.

This wasn't on anybody's radar, but because of you and because of channels like this one, Fight, Laugh, Feast, you know, all kinds of discernment bloggers and stuff like that, we're forcing them to respond to these charges.

Now, I'm sure we're not going to get straight answers here, because that's not how Big Eva operates, but I just want you to—you got to take the wins that you can get here. We're forcing the issue. We're forcing the conversation.

They are being forced to react to us. This is all good news. We're not locked in there with them. They're locked in here with us, and we're going to continue to talk about this until we get straight answers.

Good stuff, guys.

Keep it going. I'm looking forward to watching this video. You can listen to both episodes here now, as Pastor John, with Critical Race Theory Part 1, The Relationships.

Critical Race Theory and the Need for Definitions

All right, let's hear it. If critical race theory were only a theoretical or philosophical or intellectual issue, I would definitely start with definitions. In fact, I would start with a biblical argument for why definitions and clarity and transparency are essential—essential for Christian faithfulness to Scripture and to God, especially when spiritual forces of darkness and confusion and deception are in the air, which they are.

Paul calls Satan the prince of the power of the air, and Satan's specialty in this world is deception through twists and turns.

Seems like we're going to get a big, gigantic, humongous, ginormous butt right here. It seems like he's setting us up to say, like, actually, definitions maybe aren't important, because there's so many feelings involved.

I don't know what he's going to say, but that's what it sounds like.

...truths and half-truths, and deception flourishes in the fog of confusion, and confusion is deepened and advanced through the lack of clarity, and clarity is only possible where we know the meaning of terms that we're each using when we talk to each other.

So I hope you can see how seriously I take definitions and clarity and transparency in communication, and I do intend to get to as much definitional clarity as I'm capable of, but not in this episode of Ask Pastor John.

I'm not going to start with that, and I hope you'll see why.

Yeah, I'm sure we'll see why in just a minute. You know, actually, I'm in the process of writing my book right now, How to Defeat the Woke Church Movement, talking to publishers about, you know, who I'm going to go with and stuff like that.

It's a work in progress, so if you pre-ordered it, it's coming, I'm working on it. But one of the early chapters, I talked about how conversations are framed, and they're very rarely framed appropriately from the social justice, woke church side.

And so what it seems like Pastor John is about to do here is about to pump the primer, if you will. And when you're talking about the social justice movement, woke church, critical theory, the way that it's often pumped, the primer is pumped, is to get the emotional juices flowing.

It puts you on your back foot, because now, if you start to criticize, now you're like, well, it's like criticizing a crying woman, like why would, like when a woman's crying in front of you, you don't want to challenge her, you want to comfort her and stuff like that.

And so often, the woke church movement will put, you know, blacks, Latinos, people that are pushing this critical race theory stuff in the place of the woman that you're trying to console. And sometimes they even overtly do it.

They draw comparisons between the husband and the wife, and black people are the wife. Like, it's just so twisted. And so oftentimes, the primer is pumped, and it gets you, you've got to think about how this makes people feel, and it's like, well no, yeah, we do have to consider feelings, but truth is more important than feelings, because truth is a person, right?

We have to be dedicated to the truth as Christians. And so, I don't know what he's about to do here, but often what gets done is they pump the primer with emotions. They want you feeling before you think.

And sometimes you never get to thinking, it's just feel, feel, feel, feel, go to the protest and feel some more. Sometimes they do eventually get around to thinking, which it sounds like Pastor John's committing to doing here, but it's like feel first, I want you to feel what I feel first, and then think.

No. No, no, no. We have to keep our wits about us. We have to be sober minded. You know what I mean? That's what the Bible's talking about when it's talking about being sober minded. Yes, of course, it means not drunk also, but sober mindedness means that you need to be even keeled.

You can't run with emotions. You can't join the lynch mobs the next time a black guy gets shot by a white cop, and just assume this is a, this is a racist killing, like, like, that's what they do all the time.

Pump the primer. It certainly seems like he's about to pump that emotional primer right now. And if he does, that's a real shame, because that's actually employing critical theory in a thing where you're potentially going to be criticizing critical theory, which I find extremely interesting.

The Relational Side of the CRT Debate

Before we're done, critical race theory is not only a bundle of beliefs and ideas and ways of thinking about race and other important things, it has also become a relationally destructive means of defamation.

And that's what I want to talk about first, the way Christians treat each other and talk about each other when it comes to this issue of race, or more specifically, critical race theory. So I know this first session is going to be frustrating.

We hope to do two of these. And I know this first one is going to be frustrating to listeners, because my guess is that thousands of you listening to this right now don't have any clear idea what critical race theory is.

Yeah. So for those thousands of people, what I, what I want to do is I want you to feel your way through this. It's about how we treat each other and how we, we, we hurt each other's feelings with critical theory.

And in such a way, I can poison the well. So that way, when I explain it later, you can be suspicious of anyone who uses the word critical theory. That's a terrible John Piper impression, but my goodness, so he knows what he's doing here.

He knows what he's doing. He knows lots of people don't know what critical theory is. And so he's about to pump the primer and poison the well and say, well, anyone that's on YouTube or anyone that's in a podcast, Hey buddy, hold on one second here.

Sorry about that. They had to find a Hot Wheels car that I, I super glued together last night. I don't know where it is though. Anyway. Um, but yeah, so he knows what he's doing here. I mean, this is, this is, this is, he's, he's being open about this.

You don't know what it is, but I'm going to tell you how to feel first and then I'll tell you how it is. It's just not a, it's not a good way to do this. Not a good methodology. In fact, John Piper admits that it's not a good methodology because he says he normally doesn't do this, but he's doing it here.

Very interesting as to why that is. I've got my guesses, but we'll let him talk. I want to sell it.

Join the club. I mean, does anybody know what we're talking about? And here I am talking about it as a pejorative label that some people put on other people to their detriment. And I haven't even said what it is.

How frustrating is that?

But so he wants you to think it's a pejorative label, which means it's an insult and it's an inappropriate insult because that's the connotation here. Obviously, if I called you an Arminian and you were an Arminian, I might be using that as an insult, but it's, it's true.

I mean, like if somebody said, you're just a stupid Calvinist, well, stupid, that should be stricken from the record, but Calvinist, yes, I know you're meaning to insult me, but it's true. I'm a Calvinist.

You know what I mean? Like I get that. If someone's not a Calvinist and they just want to say, well, you're just a Calvinist and they mean it as an insult. I understand that you'll mean it as an insult, but it's not like, so, so you see the, the, oh man, oh man, I honestly am a little bit speechless about this.

Like, it's a pejorative that we use to demean or whatever it was he said, and it's like, yeah, but it's an explainer though. Like, because when you spout things that are influenced by critical theory, I want people to know that what you are saying at this point is not from the book of Exodus.

It's not from Leviticus. It's not from Hebrews. It's actually from a book written by a man, written by a pagan man who had pagan ideas and based this in pagan foundations. I want people to know that that particular idea is not scriptural.

And so when Matt Hall gets on the, on, on a podcast and says, well, I'm a racist. It's like, well, see, see, he's, he's trying to pretend like that's a biblical idea. You know, it's just, you know, we're all sinners like that kind of thing.

And it's not a biblical idea. Your white skin does not make you a racist unless you're adopting critical theory. So that you might find that insulting and that's fine. I'm not going to apologize for that, but it's not just a pejorative.

It's actually an attempt to explain where you're getting it from. Because all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God does not equal white skin means you're a racist till the day you die and get my glorified body like that.

We need people to understand that. And so I'm sure you find it insulting, but we're not sorry for it. And we're going to continue to do it. But John Piper, Piper, Piper here is trying to pretend like, well, that's just an insult.

It's just a thoughtless insult. Nobody's put any thought into this. They just throw it out there and they don't even know what they're talking about. In fact, he said, see, we joined the club. Does anybody know what we're talking about?

Like, this is such a pathetic take. Like, nobody knows what critical race theory is. Well, no, John, a lot of us actually do know what critical race theory is. Maybe we don't know every nuance of it, but we're very familiar with the basics.

And a lot of people are. And so this whole idea, well, I don't know, it's just a pejorative. That's so, that's such a lie, John. That's bearing false witness. You understand what I'm saying, John? Like, you're bearing false witness in this podcast.

And I think you know it. Because again, you kind of bent over, but I don't normally do this. I don't normally do this. You know, like, John, like, this is not helpful in any way. This is a lie. You're lying about brothers in Christ, my friend.

And the thing is, like, you make it seem like we're the ones that haven't done our research. No, maybe you're the one who hasn't done your research. Because I think if you're not lying, then you're just ignorant here.

You're just ignorant. Most of us bend over backwards to explain very carefully why certain ideas don't come from the Bible, but they do come from the texts of critical theory.

Please, try to trust me. Not for a long time. Trust me, just trust me. I'm not asking you to trust me forever. I just, give me a little time in this, and I think you'll see why I'm coming at this so oddly when I love definitional clarity.

No, we won't trust you because you've already lied, and we already know that you've lied. So, no, why would we trust someone on a topic with which they are currently lying? Look, John, I'm sure you're very trustworthy in many situations, but you're four minutes into a podcast, I guess it'll be like 40 minutes or an hour, about critical theory, and you've already lied.

You've already lied. So, no, I'm not going to just trust you. I'll hear you out, but I'm going to have to check your facts. I'm going to need to see some receipts, Pastor John, because you've shown yourself untrustworthy in this podcast.

Front. I'm going to deal to the best of my ability with a definition in our second episode on critical race theory, but there are reasons for tackling the relational issue among Christians first, and I hope you'll see that as we go.

There are biblical relational principles at stake here that I think do not depend on the definition of critical race theory because they apply to all kinds of explosive issues. That's what I want to get at.

Those biblical relational principles, and I think this needs to be said first. Get to the point, Matt. I want to illustrate what I'm talking about with a podcast conversation, a podcast conversation about critical race theory between Rasul Berry, teaching pastor at the Bridge Church in Brooklyn, and Neil Shenvey, whose apologetics website describes him as a homeschooling theoretical chemist.

And believe me, that is an understatement when it comes to his qualifications. They both have written and spoken about critical race theory. Both are articulate. Both are winsome. I found myself really liking and appreciating these two Christian brothers, even when they were emphasizing very different perspectives on critical race theory.

And I put it like that, namely emphasizing very different perspectives. I don't say even when they were disagreeing because I couldn't put my finger on any specific disagreement about the rightness or the wrongness of critical race theory in its specific assertions.

What mainly emerged in this conversation, and what was so helpful to me, was a clarification of the relational dynamics at work in these kinds of conversations. I don't know if I can suffer through this.

I really don't know if I can suffer through this. I'm thinking about it right now.

I'm thinking about it live. Do I continue? I just don't even know. Pastor John, in his great wisdom, doesn't understand that a critical theorist and then an anti-critical theorist had any disagreements.

It's just like the Jedi. It's just different points of view. What I said was true from a different point of view. Like, no, no, Obi-Wan, you lied to me. Like, you are a liar. You told me that Darth Vader betrayed and murdered my father, but in reality, Darth Vader is my father.

So, no, Obi-Wan Kenobi, you are just a liar. You know, the Jedi really weren't that great. The Jedi were pretty evil when you think about it. They lied a lot. They did all kinds of shady stuff. When they took Anakin, they took him from his slave mother and did not free his mother.

Like, they just took him away from his mother and then refused to allow him to go visit his mother until she was already dead. Like, it's just the Jedi weren't that great, but I don't know, man. I don't know.

I mean, do you guys find this helpful if I go through this? I mean, I'm only six minutes into the first video and I'm already at a loss for words. I'm already at a loss for words. And, of course, they reference Neil Shenvey because Neil Shenvey is, like he said, he's as winsome.

He's actually not going to hold people's feet to the fire. That's necessary with false teachers. I don't care what Pastor John has to say about this. False teachers need to be confronted. The wolves need to be shot.

What does the Bible say about loving your neighbor? It says, you shall not hate your neighbor in your heart, but rather you shall reason frankly with your neighbor. That means reason directly. That means reason without using weasel words or trying to always find agreement where there is no agreement.

Like, like reason frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him. Like, this is what a loving person does to either false teachers or teachers who are teaching falsely. I don't really know Rasul that much, but Rasul, you know, maybe he's a false teacher or maybe he's just a teacher who's teaching some false doctrines, whatever you reason frankly with him, because otherwise you hate him in your heart.

I don't hate Rasul, but you know, when he's preaching critical theory, which, you know, I did a video about that video. And so I know there were disagreements. I know there were disagreements, not as strong as I would have preferred, but Pastor John can't even find a disagreement between Neil Shenvey and Rasul, whatever his name was.

And that's a problem. That's a problem, Pastor John. And like, I'm sorry, but you've already in six minutes, you've lied. And now you've shown yourself to be unworthy of any attention on this issue. If you cannot find a single disagreement in the conversation with Neil Shenvey and Rasul, whatever his name was, Rasul Berry, I don't remember his name.

They were hosted by Justin Brierley on the unbelievable show, and you can watch it on YouTube. I think Pastor Berry was speaking for lots of African-Americans, not all of them, nobody speaks for all African-Americans, when he said that his primary concern—those are his words, his primary concern, his primary critique of the whole conversation.

He's thinking culture-wide, not just his conversation with Shenvey. He said his primary concern was that he and many others woke up one morning, so to speak, and found that they had been tarred and feathered with the label Critical Race Theory.

He had to go look it up.

Right. And at the time, I said, well, okay, that's fine, but now that you know where your ideas come from, you need to either own them or change them. Because there's lots of ideas that I got before I was a Calvinist that were Calvinist ideas.

And so I woke up one morning, and I was told, hey, you're a Calvinist. You sound like a Calvinist. In fact, this literally happened to me. My wife told me this before I was married to her. I was talking to her about theology, and she looked at me one day and said, what are you, a Calvinist or something like that?

I don't remember exactly how she put it. She probably put it in a much sweeter way than that. And I said, I don't know. I guess I am. If that's Calvinism, I guess I am. Then I looked into it, and of course, she was right.

I was espousing Calvinist ideas, and I didn't know it. I just happened to, God providentially, because I'm a Calvinist, I don't believe in luck. God providentially put in front of me people and teachers that were Calvinist that I did not know were Calvinist when I was first converted.

I didn't know that that was Calvinism that I was learning. Then I started talking to my wife about theology, and I was talking to her about Calvinism. I didn't know it was Calvinism. One morning, I woke up, I talked to my wife, and all of a sudden, I find out, hey, I'm a Calvinist.

I look into it, and you know what? It turns out they're right. This idea comes from John Calvin and his followers, and they got it from the Bible. It's like, okay, so I had a choice to make. I could either say, well, I know I'm not a Calvinist, so I'm not going to believe this stuff anymore, or I can say, yeah, I'll own that.

That's right. I got that from John Calvin. I guess I'm a Calvinist. That's what an honest person does, but for some reason, Razul's kind of saying that because he kind of owns it, but kind of doesn't, and doesn't want you to really know that he's a critical theorist, and John's like, well, yeah, but he didn't know, so he must not be a critical theorist.

That's not how things work, John. I don't know, guys. I have to go pick up my dad from the airport. It's like, I have to stop right there, but guys, let me know what you think about this. If you think this is worthwhile going into further, I definitely will because I do this channel for you guys, so if you think that it's worthwhile, I will continue.

If you think that this is stupid, I'll do something else. Anyway, I hope you found this video helpful. God bless.