Let Take a Tour Through the Meltdown Caused by the Founders Ministry Movie Trailer

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Well, I guess you can't blame the machine for attempting to defend itself.

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I mean look I look I'm glad that there's some Vigor and the responses to this trailer. I said that yesterday

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I'm very glad about that because it gives you a window into Where the lines are what really gets someone out of bed what people really care about and the reality is that people what they really?

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Care about is decorum what they really care about is making sure that the power is brokered to the right people making sure that that the institutions and the

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Structures are protected against dissidents, you know things like that. That's what people really care about because critical theory hasn't

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Garnered this kind of response black liberation theology has not garnered this kind of response Egalitarianism women preaching in your in your services has not garnered this kind of response, but this issue

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Mean sounding words and editing that makes people look bad People who are teaching bad things, you know what

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I mean? Yeah. Well, anyway, we got yesterday we got, you know, Al Mohler here You know, and let me just read his words here and we're gonna talk about this some of this stuff

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They've got yes folks. I've here's what it says Yes, folks. I've now seen the founders ministry trip video trailer and I'm alarmed at how some respected

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SBC leaders are represented Southern Baptist expect and deserve respectful and honest exchange of ideas

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I'm convinced that we are all capable of this. Hey, man, you could see what he really cares about It's respected leaders being criticized.

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He doesn't like that. He doesn't like Respectedly, we've got the anointed class. We've got the untouchables

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We got the made guys and you better not say anything about a made guy because you could get whacked You could get whacked for that.

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Well, you know what I got to be honest speak for myself here I don't worry about getting whacked by the big

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Eva thought police. I just don't it's just not on my radar I'm not looking for power. I'm not looking for influence at least not that kind of influence

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He continues He says I've also long known and enjoyed the company of the folks who made the video and the folks offended by the video and I'm Hopeful that founders ministry will respond appropriately and in a way that affirms their intentions to be a responsible voice in the

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SBC Well, I'll tell you right now I don't speak for founders But I know the founders ministry guys, and I know that they are looking for respectful and honest exchange of ideas

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That's what they're looking for. But you know what? They've been shut down probably just as much as I have

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I've been looking for this as well and I get shut down at every turn because at the end of the day We've got one side of this issue that does want this kind of debate and dialogue and we've got another side of this issue

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That wants to call you racist misogynist sexist, you know bigoted all that kind of stuff and you know what?

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We're sick of it We're sick of it. So we're blowing the lid off this thing and I don't speak for founders, you know

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I speak for myself. I'm very glad to see what founders is doing. Very glad to see it He says here in the heat of July is another reminder that how we engage and represent one another is as important as what?

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We argue and who we engage Let's encourage one another to good works good theology and a good mood now back to my children

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This is an interesting thing because you hear this kind of thing all the time How you argue and how we engage is just as important as what we argue

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No, no, it isn't No, it isn't Now if he means like sinful ways, of course,

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I mean, we don't want to sin and how we engage of course Obviously, that's true. But that's not really what

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I think he means here. What he what he means here is about Doing things the polite Southern Baptist way the way that he does the way that he does which has led to Not a single ounce of pushback at least any pushback that has had any impact whatsoever

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So he wants you to do it his way. He isn't like when people do it with aggressive sounding words

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Okay Sorry Sorry, because I've read the

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Bible and that's not how the prophets speak That's not how the apostles spoke They spoke to different people in different ways and to the power structures the ones that are letting this stuff happen

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The ones that are syncretic syncretistic with some of this stuff. They get the harshest rhetoric and you know what?

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I'm glad for it. I'm glad for it. So that's Al Mohler. Here's Jason Allen now. Jason Allen is

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I I've seen more pushback from Jason Allen than I have from many of the the head honchos of these

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Southern Baptist senators So good on Jason Allen, I appreciate it, but he's also, you know, he's got to be political as well

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So he's gonna distance himself. Also, he goes this he says this trailer is either a clickbait promo piece or it foreshadows a movie

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That's uncharitable and unhelpful Unhelpful For what you see that's the question

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I have for Jason Allen unhelpful for what unhelpful for you Unhelpful for the Southern Baptist power structures.

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Yeah, maybe maybe Founders ministry has often played a constructive role in SPC life, but I'm afraid this video isn't such an occasion

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These issues demand we engage with clarity and charity and we must Yeah, sure.

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So I'd like to see you say even one word About people on this up on the other side here

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Eric Mason the BD on your wheelie all these people that are bringing destructive heresies into the church

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I'd like to see an ounce of this kind of vigor. I see a little bit from you though Jason So I appreciate that but the reality is that this video this this this this movie

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This trailer might be unhelpful for some things It's definitely unhelpful for people to go on as if nothing's happening as if the status quo is okay

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The status quo is not okay. It is not. Okay. Not anymore. We're sick of it. Here's Danny Akin My comments about the upcoming founders ministry documentary while at the 2019

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Southern Baptist Convention annual meeting I sat down for a short interview with my friend Tom Askell of founders ministries for what

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I understood to be a discussion about the authority of scripture for an upcoming documentary as The Southern Baptist who has staked my whole life of my ministry and on the authority and errancy and sufficiency of scripture

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I was happy to share my convictions on the matter today I was disappointed to see the trailer for that documentary

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What I saw was edited footage that I believe to be misleading which members Misrepresents important issues and what leaders in the

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Southern Baptist Convention actually affirm and be nice to hear some examples of that Exactly.

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What was misleading about it? That's what I'd like to know Anyway at this important time in our convention

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We have an opportunity to model what it means to be part of the kingdom of Christ peaceable gracious and fair even in our disagreements

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This is what it should look like for churches of varied convictions within the bounds of Baptist faiths and messages

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Mm to cooperate together for the spread of the gospel to the ends of the earth We certainly have important issues to deal with in the

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SPC on that. Dr. Askell and I are in full agreement. However Despite our friendship and mutual respect for another we do not see eye -to -eye in the best way to address these issues

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I have concerns about what tone tenor and content the full documentary will be and I have requested that my

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Associating with and contribution to this film be removed I hope my brothers will reconsider their strategy for communicating our deeply held

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Southern Baptist conviction that the Bible is our sole foundation and authority for all faith and life yeah, that'd be really nice if you could talk about the the the authority of the scripture when it actually matters in issues that are

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Infecting your seminary and your convention when it actually matters. Where are you?

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Where are you? Resolution 9 past where's the authority of scripture? Where is all this stuff?

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Your method is not working and yeah I'd be willing to bet that that Tom Askell and you don't agree on the best method methods to go forward and guess who we

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Know for a fact their methods won't work yours Yours, dr.

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Aiken see Tom Askell's approach and this movie might not work. It might not work

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I agree. It might not be the right tone. It might not strike the right balance It might not reach the right people.

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It might not it might not it might not but guess whose approach definitely isn't working when in your seminary, dr.

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Cohn's James Cohn's ideas are being taught but not without mentioning him because we don't want to put any stumbling blocks in the way for people

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To actually put their guards up when we're teaching dangerous dangerous stuff in our seminaries your method definitely doesn't work

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Dr. Askell's may or may not work, but excuse us for trying something new Excuse us.

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We're trying something new Anyway, so this is this is the big wigs, right? These are the big boys that responded to this thing

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But a lot of other people had a lot of problems to a lot of people had problems with this documentary Here's one that I saw that was pretty interesting he says

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No, well, this is a response to me. So yesterday I was tweeting like crazy in support of this this trailer

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And I stand by my words, of course Anyway, nothing gets this is what I said Nothing gets the machine out of bed faster than some aggressive sounding words by biblically faithful ministers

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Here are some encouraging hopefully words for the brothers I sent some encouraging words to founders because I'm praying for the guys, you know, and here's what somebody responds here

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I don't think it's mean words so much as deceptive ways to use his conversation now

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What I find interesting about comments like this is like okay So so deceptive words so so so it sounded to me like this guy had some inside information on to the content of the

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Conversation because if you know, it's deceptive Then you must know what the actual conversation was about and you could show how it was deceptive

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So I asked him I said sounds like you've got some good inside info I'd be interested in hearing what the deception is Please DM me if you want to pursue

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If you don't want to put someone on blast for it, and it turns out he doesn't it turns out he doesn't he says that Well because dr.

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Moeller asked for honesty and clarity that means that it was deceptive and that's just really an assumption. So, you know

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Honestly, I wouldn't if it was me, I you know, you don't have to go by what I would do But if it was me,

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I wouldn't call something deceptive unless I could demonstrate how it was deceptive, you know I mean, that's just me

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I don't know but it seems like a lot awful lot of people are know a lot about the context of these conversations

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Because they're they know that they were taken out of context so I mean maybe I just don't have the same connections you guys do

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This is a good one. Yeah, this guy Christopher Mullins responded to me. I I Posted the trailer.

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I said give this a watch and he said this is the Trump wing of SPC try Trying to bring discredit to people like dr

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Moore and al moeller because they're outspoken about real Donald Trump the Church of Donald Trump, lol

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I should have known that this is gonna be blamed on Trump and actually it is It's definitely gonna be blamed on Trump if people are gonna start saying stuff like this

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This is Trump's new America where he's using mean words and rhetoric is common and accepted

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Trump is the one who did this. It's gonna be all Trump. I don't know if the founders guys supported

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Trump I honestly have no idea this guy Christopher's responding to me. I didn't support Trump.

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So I mean whatever Alright, so we got that we got here. Oh, this is a good one.

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This is a this is a pro guy This is a pro guy Pedro Camino he says They've been influenced by some rowdy

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Presbyterians and I gotta say man some Baptists know how to party too Good on you guys founders.

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You guys know how to party too. I gotta be honest I thought all the rebel rouses were Presbyterians But it turns out that we've got some

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Baptists who know how to boogie and I'm grateful for you guys. I love you Baptist I really do Now by far, oh this is this is not the last one

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I one more after this and this is this is another common piece of pushback Nathan's not the only guy saying this but it's a common piece of pushback that I saw and It says it's like it goes like this.

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He says serious question Why not approach it like this quote as I listen? What should someone who disagrees in certain important respects do if he or she would not like to not only respectfully listen but engage in discussion about differences perhaps even argue and even attempt to persuade and quote and I got to be honest like like This is asked as if this has not been an approach that has been tried

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You know I think a lot of people just kind of assume what goes on With some of these conversations like people look at some of the videos that I put out and they say well

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Some of them are pretty aggressive and so you can't just be aggressive all the time And then

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I and then I'll ask a question. I'll ask a follow -up question What percentage of my videos have you watched, you know, just roughly and they'll be like Five maybe five percent and so I said, okay

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So would you would you say would you say this about 95 percent? Let's you know, let's just say 90 90 percent of my videos 9 out of 10 videos that I put out you haven't seen

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That sounds right. So how can you speak positively about my aggressive tone?

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That's all I do is aggression is in if only seen 10 % of my videos. I really can't that's right

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You can't because I've asked nicely. I've asked calmly many times.

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I've asked politely Respectfully honestly so many times for dialogue so many times that approach

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Has not worked. I Will continue to do it because I think maybe one day it will maybe one day it will

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But for now if that's not gonna get your attention, maybe exposing your nonsense will get some attention

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How do you like that? You got a problem with that? Well, I mean, I don't I don't know if you don't like that method if you don't like that approach then don't use it

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I mean, but the thing is, you know, you can't look people who are sitting back doing nothing I'm not saying

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Nathan's one of these by the way I'm just saying people in general people who are sitting back Ineffective having no impact on the conversation not stopping the march of progressives in our seminaries in our conventions in our

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Presbyterian people that are sitting back Ineffective doing nothing you got look fine, you know, you have things to say about what we should do

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But guess what? We're not gonna do the things that aren't working anymore

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They just don't work. We're not gonna do them. We're gonna go with other biblical methods for doing this doing this work

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Maybe they will work. I don't know. I mean, we'll find out now by far.

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This was the the biggest The biggest controversy by far and and I got to be honest with you.

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I I Know Rachel Denholm Hollander's name I wouldn't have been able yeah,

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I wouldn't have been able to pick her out of a lineup if you asked me I didn't I don't know what she looks like and I only know a little bit about what she does

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You know, I know that she was a you know, the she's a lawyer She was the first person to come out about that creep

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You know sexual abuser in the in gymnastics and so good stuff man epic that I love that stuff

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I've heard a lot of great things about this woman Rachel Denholm Hollander So but I wouldn't have been able to pick her out of this lineup, right?

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and so this is the this is the line of Debate that most people have chosen because I think it's because it's the most the one that has the best optics for them

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But what's not gonna work guys? Look, look you guys that are that are clutching your pearls over this malady in white knighting for Rachel Denholm Hollander It's not gonna work like I look

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I'm not look I don't don't misunderstand me Her husband white knighting for her is exactly what he needs to do good on him man.

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Good on him. You defend your wife. Absolutely But all you other white knights out there.

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This isn't gonna work You know what? I mean? You guys are out of your minds I heard one guy said well you guys said that you were talking about demons and Principalities and you showed a picture of Rachel Denholm Hollander.

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So you guys are saying she's a demon You really believe that? My goodness if you really believe that I am extra happy that this movie is being made because you are playing right into our hands

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Right into their hands. They they're they're showing that this is a problem and you're demonstrating it in your pushback.

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It's so amazing Anyway, this is Chris Bolt. He's uh, he made he makes a pretty good argument here

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I think out of all the ones that I've seen that have been focused on miss mrs. Denholm Hollander This is the one that I think is most interesting the most relevant

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So he says he says that he says assume for the sake of argument I agree with everything that the founders ministry believes and is trying to accomplish with their forthcoming video

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It does not follow that the trailer for that video is unobjectionable. In fact, the opposite is the case.

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What are the problems? I agree with that, you know just because you agree with what founders ministry is trying to do doesn't mean that the trailer was good

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It doesn't mean that it was effective. It doesn't mean that it was didn't have problems. That's true. He Chris Bolt is 100 % right

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By the way, it doesn't mean that it does either Just so you know Anyway, he continues the trailer features an interview with a gentleman talking about manipulation through guilt leading to destructive behavior at the same time

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He is speaking shows clips of SPC messengers holding up becoming a church that cares well for the abuse signs.

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Okay? Good point the trailer also features an interview with Whatever his name is.

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Oh, yeah. Oh and strong. Yeah, this is this is a guy who's probably I mean this guy Probably wants nothing to do with this film either

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You got to understand he's got he's got he's got a platform to maintain he's got a respectability to maintain

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I get it I get it commenting on the principalities and powers of Ephesians 6 with rep with a which is a reference to demons while at the same time showing a clip of Rachel Denhollander speaking at the

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ERLC panel at the SBC and This is the picture. So apparently they blurred it out

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And had some people asking is this intentional is this is this editing intentional and I'm like, dude Do you know what a filmmaker is?

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Of course, it's it everything that a filmmaker does is intentional Maybe everything's an exaggeration

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Maybe there's some things that happen on accident, but most things that a filmmaker does is intentional. These people are artists.

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They do things on purpose Okay. So this is the picture a lot of people recognize.

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This was Rachel Denhollander I I wouldn't even have recognized it if it was this picture because I just don't I mean she's not my circles

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I guess I knew I knew about her. I knew a little bit about what she does and all that but that's about it

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I mean, I very very would not have recognized her anyway And he says as you can see the short clip is heavily edited

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Why to match the clips of other speakers in the video who are in some form or fashion representative of the problems in the

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SBC? Filters are used to make some clips jittery and blurred. He's right. He's absolutely right

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He says filters are also used to show founders representatives in a better light and color This use of filters music and narrations is quite likely intended to produce a particular type of feeling to be associated with each of the

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Clips it is clear who is portrayed as good and bad And brief clip of the theologically liberal egalitarian

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Nadia Bowles Weber. That's also otherwise known as that Jezebel lady Is shown immediately before Denhollander with Strawn's voice speaking of the aforementioned demonic powers now other objections to the trailer had been raised

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But I'm not interested in those here Okay, we're gonna talk about his questions in a minute. But here's the point.

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The point is they're talking about demons Principalities and powers they show that Jezebel lady who is representative of the demonic powers in the church that according

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This is the this is the this is what Chris is saying I think that's probably accurate and then it shows other pictures of other people and one of the people is

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Rachel Denhollander and what Chris is trying to get you to believe is that the editors of this of this trailer and again

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I had I want everyone to know I had nothing to do with making of this trailer I wish I was involved in the project, but I'm not

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But so I didn't make this trailer but but he wants you to believe that they're calling Rachel a demon or at least a demonic power or at least demon eyes or something like that and They're putting her on the same wavelength as Nadia Bowles Weber in terms of the negative influence that she's having on the church so they want you to associate

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Rachel with that Jezebel lady and And I think that there's probably some truth to this

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I don't think that they're I don't think it's the same idea though that that that Chris does because if you look at the trailer

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What happens is he talks about the principalities and the powers and you know Demonic influences stuff and it shows these shots of these people blurry, you know

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All that kind of stuff and then immediately after the context is women teaching and preaching in the church

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Immediately after that's the very next thing that said Tom Buck is talking about women preaching in the church

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And what did they just show before that? women teaching and preaching in the church

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That's what I think it was referring to now, I don't know for a fact because I'm not the artist here

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I'm just the humble viewer Just the humble viewer, but when I saw it, that's what

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I said because I didn't know who Rachel was I had no idea All I saw was a woman with a microphone speaking presumably at some kind of a church function some kind of conference or something

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Like that I don't know because Tom Buck was talking about women teaching and preaching in the church and how that's okay all of a sudden with The egalitarian movement and right before it we were seeing women doing exactly that That's what

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I that's what I thought. So I didn't think oh this woman's being compared to a demon I didn't think any of that.

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I didn't think oh, you know her work in sexual abuse. That's what people are saying That's a problem. You serious you think founders ministry is for sexual abuse

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Come on man You guys are proving the point of why this video this movie is necessary I mean you guys are playing right into their hands right into their hands.

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You seriously are But no, that's not what I thought at all I thought it had to do with the women teaching and preaching in the church, which

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I would Defy you to say that this idea of egalitarianism and women having authority in the church

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Teaching and preaching when the Bible says isn't that that is not a demonically influenced idea

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It is because it doesn't come from the Bible. The Bible says no people are saying yes That's a demonically influenced idea am

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I saying that Rachel den hollander is a demon no I am NOT am I saying that she's demon eyes and she's possessed by a demon

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No, I'm not am I saying that she's even part of the egalitarian movement. I have no idea.

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I have no idea but what I am saying is that what Tom Buck was talking about people who say that you women and men are women should be

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Teaching and preaching and exercising authority in the church That is an idea that comes from demons not the

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Bible That's an indisputable Indisputable if you're a complimentary anyway, let's respond to his questions.

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Chris bolt continues. This is gonna be a long video Wow He says here are my questions

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What message is sent by the trailer mentioning guilt manipulation with the SPC holding up a book on how to care for abuse survivors?

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In the church. I mean, I don't know wait for the movie. I guess I don't know What message is being sent by showing den hollander alongside

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Bulls Weber and the discussion of demons I don't know Chris, but I'm pretty sure it's not Rachel is a demon

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I'm pretty sure I don't know. But hey, yeah, I guess you're entitled to your opinion. Oh Here's the next question

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Assuming I agree with founders on all the current issues in the SPC Wouldn't I also want to say that the problem of abuse is a real problem and that it's a real problem in particular for The SPC this problem is not a mere matter of worldly perceptions

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Christians. See it, too Do you really think that founders thinks that that sexual abuse is not a problem?

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I mean my goodness Chris This is what you're going with. This is what you're going with for your pushback The implication of the carefully edited movie trailer is that something dark and even demonic has made its way into the

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SPC through addressing Sexual abuse and through individuals like den hollander. No, that's not the implication that's necessarily being made that's what you have interpreted from this short trailer because I just gave you what my reaction to it was and it had nothing to do with demons

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Coming in and stopping sexual abuse. I Mean Chris, you're really not this obtuse

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Are you you do you really think that the founders ministry people want to put forward the perception the implication that they're making with?

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Their carefully edited footage is that it's demonic to be against sexual abuse. Are you really gonna go with that?

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man We're not stupid This isn't going to work. This isn't going to work.

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I just gave you what my reaction was. I think it's pretty reasonable and doesn't Rely on the founders ministry men being monsters, but you know, hey

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Man, this is bad because apart from the lack of wisdom in the selection of an editor producer who would create a provocative video that Politicizes and weaponizes the issue of abuse apart from the obvious difficulties with the ethics of the situation including utilitarianism

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It's bad because founders has significantly fumbled the ball here in 2015 I publicly noted a particular ministry that had gone far beyond reporting the truth about concerns with particular individuals and entities at first I caught a lot of flack, but then

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I watched insiders and supporters turned one by one and that's already happening here, too Yes, Chris, I'm sure you are the champion of of all this.

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I'm sure you're the hero of this as well fine If I were founders, I would fire the video editor fire him

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Issue an apology to den hollanders and try again, although credibility may be shot you fumbled the ball. Well, Chris Let's just say this in as real and as nice a way as possible

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If you don't like it try your method, I guess because you know Let's just say I agreed with founders what it founders believes.

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Well, do you I mean, you're not really giving us much here You know what? I mean, but but if you do, I mean continue to do your thing,

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I guess I mean, yeah You know your strategy, I guess it might be better. I don't know. I mean, I mean look look

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I do not fault What I have done the trailer every every way that they did it. I don't know.

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I mean, I'm not an editor I didn't I don't know what their goals are what the mission of the movie is. I don't know what it's about I don't know the context of what they're trying to accomplish

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I have an idea but I'm not involved in it. So what I have done it everything the same way No, I don't think I would have

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But I'm not a filmmaker. I guess kind of technically I am Anyway, but but the point is though that play times over we're not gonna we're not gonna

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Play footsie with critical theory anymore. We're not gonna play footsie with all of this egalitarian stuff.

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We're just not gonna do it we're not gonna do it and just because this has made you clutch your pearls Chris and Make up this fantasy about founders saying that sexual abuse and opposing it is demonized

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That's crazy, man. You gotta understand you sound like a conspiracy theorist. You really do I mean to take that seriously would have we would have to just Get rid of everything we know about founders ministry and say, you know what?

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They're really just monsters and they love sexual abuse and they want to make it seem like if you're against sexual abuse

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You're a demon. That's what it would take for us to take you seriously Chris I just gave you a very easy very legitimate sounding reasonable explanation that I don't know if it's true or not

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But doesn't require me to think that Tom Askell and Jared Longshore are monsters Oh You know,

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I think I think Someone had said this that's pretty funny. I think this is

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See if I can find this really good, but I'm trying to find it. Anyway, Jacob Brunton, you know, this is a guy, you know

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Me and him don't see I'd a lot of things but Jacob Brunton said this he said What what founders should do is take out the two seconds with with miss mrs.

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Dahlen hander A Rachel whatever her last name is take out those two seconds call their bluff and once it's sufficiently called say, okay

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You good with this movie now? Because it's not about that. That's just an excuse you guys don't like this approach

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You guys don't like the fact that the power structures are about to be exposed the movers and shakers don't like it either

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They're trying to distance themselves from this. Well, guess what? Founders could cave on this founders could cave on this and it doesn't matter

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Because we're not stupid and those of us in the pews aren't gonna play by your rules anymore

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You have let this happen under your nose and we're sick of it We're sick of it

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I'm not saying revolt against your pastor. I'm not saying rebel rouse against your church. I'm not saying that but the reality is dr

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Moeller, I I love you and I've learned a lot from you, but you're not in control of me You're not the

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Pope and I know you don't think you're the Pope. And so no, I don't have to do things your way Because we've seen in the

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Bible again and again and again That we need to defend the truth and we need to prepare for war and we need to put on the armor of God against our sin and we need to and We need to make sure that we're striving for truth and be ready in season and out of season and all this stuff

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This is stuff that's required for Christians. It's absolutely required. And this is why it matters guys. This is why it matters Let me just level with you here

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The Church of God is worth it. It's worth fighting for I Will not look

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I'll guarantee you you come to my house and you threaten my wife and you threaten my kids and I'm gonna get medieval

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Okay, I'm gonna get medieval and I will do what it takes to do to defend them

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And as an analogy the church is worth it and We will do what we have to do within the bounds of God's law

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In order to defend the church we will and the reality is many of you have been sitting on your hands

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Doing what so many years ago. I heard this one guy say I wouldn't defend my wife.

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I would just pray to God to help me Pray to God to help you. Absolutely But it's time for some action

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Dress for action like a man Your method hasn't worked. Somebody else is gonna come along and say enough is enough

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We're not letting this poison seep into our churches. We're not letting this darkness come through the back door Yeah, this was edited in such a way to make make some things look shady and other things not that's on purpose

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Absolutely, because guess what? There are some shady things going on in the upper levels of the machine of Big Eva shady things

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And they've made up a set of rules that work to their advantage and not yours They've demonstrated contempt for the

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Church of God the regular Joe's the regulars Joe six -packs like me in the pews They've demonstrated their contempt for you so many times

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Enough is enough We're not playing by your rules anymore. This is a long video But I hope it was helpful

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God bless one more thing one of the best parts of that trailer in my opinion

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What Satan does is he wants to make you feel guilty when you've been forgiven

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That is all over this social justice thing People are trying to cultivate guilt in you where you don't have it

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Look, if you have guilt you should feel guilty. You should repent Want you to feel like a misogynist want you to feel like a racist want you to feel like a bigot when you're none of those things

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That comes from the pit of hell and those people who are doing that are doing not the