August 14, 2003

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now at 602 -973 -4602 or toll-free across the United States. It's 1 -877 -753 -3341. And now with today's topic here is James white.

Weather, Upcoming Programs, and a Planned Radio Debate

And good afternoon and welcome to the dividing line. It is a Thursday afternoon had to remind some folks of that. You get busy and I it's Thursday we got stuff to do today, don't we? Yes, we most certainly do.

We'll be taking your phone calls at 877 -753 -3341. If you want to be involved in the program today we're just simply hoping that we make it through the program since according to the Doppler radar that I Have on my system here via weather bug.

There are some Mondo size storms and I say mondo. I mean like that, you know a third the size of the state coming down off the rim and They've drawn a bullseye on on our on our facilities here. And so I don't think they'll get here till about 7 7 30 something like that.

But we could get some big big big big monsoons summer storms tonight, which we really need. There's no two ways about it, but they can they can be pretty damaging too. So That's the same direction they came from and we number years ago.

It was a Wednesday night now Thursday night. Number years ago. They came down and boy, I'll tell you just about ripped the roof off my parents house and tore the Tore the the place up real good. So you never know.

We need the rain, but we could avoid the 80 mile an hour winds or 100 mile an hour winds or whatever I think they hit a hundred hundred and five During that storm, so we don't get tornadoes but 105 mile an hour winds whether they're going in a circle or straight.

I pretty much do the same type of thing. So we'll hopefully get through the program before those things get down here. 8 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1 what I'd want to do. Remind you of a couple things Tuesday morning.

We have dr. Eric Svensson joining us. We'll be discussing his debate with Gerald medics Jerry medics on the subject of Mary's perpetual virginity the Roman Catholic dogma thereof and the clear biblical teaching that that is untrue and also remind you of the fact that we have Availability again on our cruise in December.

Instead of an 84 discount, which is what we got Initially now we have a 74 discount. And you're still not going to get on a five-star luxury liner in the Eastern Caribbean the week of December 6th and following for anything near what we have Available to you.

So make sure to hit the website join us for Fellowship and relaxation and study and so on and so forth and also remember the night before the cruise begins. The debate with Gregory Stafford Jesus God or a God.

That information is on the main page article, which is available Which is available on our website, I have already have two callers and I had I have a whole section here of Presentation to make so gentlemen Matthew and Steve Steve in blackouts, New Jersey.

Hold on there. We'll we'll get to you as soon as we can. I wanted to Continue to talk a little bit about identifying common errors in the debating. But I'm not going to use the debate with between Eric Svensson and Jerry Matitek.

So which is what I've been using the past two or three programs played segments and demonstrated the errors in mr. Matitek's argumentation. Instead this coming Monday Morning at oh, by the way for those of you who listened Let me mention this before I forget it those of you who listen to Janet partials America I will be her guest next Tuesday.

I don't know which hour it is. She does a number of different hours. I don't know if it's gonna be the live one the one they tape and play later. I don't know but sometime on Tuesday. I will be joining Janet partial to discuss the onslaught of Homosexual Apologists and homosexual advocates and the onslaught of homosexuality within Western Civilization following the Supreme Court's decision.

So if you are interested in that kind of thing, you might want to tune in Janet partial, especially on Tuesday. Who knows maybe if it's the recorded one it shows up on Wednesday. I don't know. But I will be on next week.

We'll be recording it Tuesday afternoon on the Janet partial program jet partials America From WA VA in Washington, I believe it is and. But on Monday and I had the time wrong on this for those of you who are in the st Louis area or we're going to try to somehow Listen, I don't know how you could.

On KJ SL in st. Louis. I'm going to be doing a radio debate. It really doesn't you know, I don't count those as formal debates, even though I've done radio debates before. Some people who are desperate to pad their stats might call those debates, but uh, I don't.

I'm going to be doing a radio interaction debate. With dr. David Bernard the chief theologian of the United Pentecostal Church International UPC. I'm the leading oneness or Jesus only Organization with headquarters there in st. Louis and we are going to be addressing the issue of the Trinity and Specifically the issue the real issue that separates us and that is does the Bible teach That the Son as a distinct person from the Father has eternally existed as a divine person.

Not merely as a thought in the mind of God not merely as a plan in the mind of God. But did the Son as a divine person exist? Prior to his birth in Bethlehem and That's the issue I listened to a debate this past week and I appreciate Jeremy sending me the link for this between dr. Bernard and a Christian apologist and.

I.

Was very disappointed, especially because I know dr. Bernard knows better. It seems that because they were before a Pentecostal audience.

He.

Well, he just didn't I just don't think dr. Bernard played fair and I I don't believe that that he gave his best presentation by any stretch of the imagination and. So as a result.

I.

Was very underwhelmed with the argumentation that he presented and.

And.

He did not actually end up focusing upon the real issues and he knows what the real issues are. His books demonstrate that he's he's attended seminary and he he knows Better than the vast majority of one of Pentecostals what the real issues are, but he didn't really deal with that instead did what?

Robert Sabin did in 1999 when I debated him and and he just basically started preaching and you get the audience all riled up and Get the audience excited get them amending you about stuff. That really isn't the issue.

There's only one God. Well, you know, we were all agreed on that. The the issue is should we assume? Unitarianism and then use that assumption as the basis for a defense of Unitarianism or do we allow the biblical data to?

Inform whether we accept a Unitarian perspective on the infinite unlimited but one being of God or whether we allow the biblical information to tell us that God's being is Trinitarian in nature.

And.

That didn't really end up taking place. I Thought that actually on a simple debating level that dr. Bernard lost that debate. But I'm gonna play a segment of it here and we're gonna Listen to a little bit of it.

We've already got two callers and I can see at least One or two people in channel that are talking about calling so we may have lots of calls tonight to run with. But I want to get an opportunity of listening to some of these comments to give you an example again of where proving that which is not in dispute is Very frequently the means that individuals will use to defend their position.

So this is from the debate. This is dr. David Bernard speaking in his opening statement. Listen as he he makes his presentation.

The Trinity Debate and the Meaning of the Godhead

So I am stating the proposition that there is absolutely one Indivisible God. We cannot speak of God's plural. We cannot speak of persons of God if we mean by persons. Multiple personalities multiple minds multiple wills multiple bodies.

In the Godhead in fact, I would say you can't be in the Godhead. The Godhead is the quality of being God and there is no one in the Godhead. The Godhead is not a substance. The Godhead is a person. Let's stop it right there and.

Immediately make some comments. Obviously the Argumentation certainly there is but one true God, but the assertion that is being made in essence is we're going to assume Unitarianism and this is the fundamental argument of oneness.

Pentecostals Aryans and Muslims. Now you couldn't get a More diverse group there as far as where they want to end up at but all of them argue against the Trinity in the same.

Way.

That is they assume Unitarianism they assume that if God is one that means the oneness is Referring to both being and person and you just had the assertion made without any foundation. But just simply the assertion made.

That God's oneness in being must also mean a oneness in person. He uses the term Godhead that doesn't tell us where he's deriving that the the term itself. It's interesting. He'll later on ask questions about Use utilization of Non-biblical terminology, but here he's using a term that while it appears in the King James Version of the Bible It appears as a translation of two different Greek terms.

He's not telling us which one he's using. This again is indicative to me for someone as as bright as dr. Bernard is that he is Not really overly concerned about which audience is listening to this in other words He's from the indices in front of a Pentecostal audience.

So he can use terms in such a way that the Pentecostals are gonna understand them the way he wants to understand him. He doesn't have to explain them. But that also means that they're not going to be overly accurate and they're not going to be very compelling.

To those of us who are listening from the other perspective the term Godhead as it's used in the King James Version of Bible Translates to different Greek words that have different meanings when it's used in Romans 1 in the King James Version of Bible It's using it's translating a Greek term that has as its stem Thayot and it's talking about the the divine attributes and it would not in any way shape or form be Identifiable with a person it's God's invisible attributes and in Colossians 2 9 one of the favorite passages of oneness Pentecostals There they are they toss is that which makes God God, but it does not it cannot this is assertions made.

Well, if that's personal that's a person. Well on what basis do you say that. I would like to see where that comes from. Instead of just simply the assertion, but since you've already got the audience the audience already agrees with you.

You don't need to evidently Substantiate your assertions or or back them up.

But you just simply can sort of preach to him the one true God known in the Old Testament as Jehovah or Yahweh. The supreme name by which he revealed himself to Israel when he manifested himself in the flesh.

He became Jesus known as Jesus which the word literally means Jehovah Savior. Jehovah is salvation. So there's one indivisible God with no distinction of persons. That's my first point.

Well, that's your first point, but you haven't established it you may have asserted it, but nothing that has been said Substantiates the assertion to say that there is one Jehovah. Yes, there is one Jehovah however.

That name Jehovah is definitely used of Jesus Christ, but it's also used of the father and it's used of Jehovah laying the sins of his people upon the Messiah who was Jesus so there is a differentiation in the Persons that is that is seen right there in the text of Scripture.

You can't just simply Through throw this this thing out there and say well. Hey, you know Here's here's how you're to understand all these things, but I'm going to I'm not going to deal with these these biblical passages contradict my thesis.

And what again bothers me here is is I know that dr. Bernard knows what the problems are now I admit you only had 15 minutes and 15 minutes isn't very long but Still if you only have 15 minutes, and I doubt I'll even have that amount of time come Monday because this is a Morning talk radio program, and you know how that works so.

I.

Recognize the time constraints, but still you have to. You know what I'm going to do. Is I'm going to focus my attention to say. Look there's all sorts of things we can argue about. Let's mention. First of all we are all agreed that there is only one Being of God.

The difference between us is. You all believe that that one being of God is unitarian shared by only one person. I believe that one being of God is shared by three persons and the clearest simplest way to Address the differences between us is to ask one direct question and that is.

Did does the Bible give us clear and compelling evidence That there are at least.

Two.

Eternal divine persons that is does the Bible teach us that the Son as a Divine person pre-existed his birth in Bethlehem if Christ as a divine person Existed before his birth in Bethlehem in the presence of the Father.

Then one is Pentecostal ism cannot claim to be biblical one is Pentecostal ism as a whole is Immediately dismissed it is it is untrue. And everything that goes with it because I think most one is Pentecostals would admit That if the Trinity is true, then everything else I mean that is that is Definitional of one is Pentecostal ism is to deny the doctrines of Trinity if Trinity is true Then you can pretty well flush the rest of it as well.

So Though I would admit there's some I don't know that's not necessarily true. You can you know still have the we write about tongues and so on so forth. But most of them I think would admit they're wrong on that one.

Then they're probably wrong on the other distinctives that are theirs as well. That would become the issue and that's what I'm going to focus on so he can spend all his time Proving issues that are not not at stake and I'll spend all my time Demonstrating that the Bible contradicts one this Pentecostal ism.

That's he's gonna have to get into the text and That issue did come up in the cross-examination and As I listen to him, I'm not going to have an opportunity to get to this today because we all have three three folks online, but The issue did come up later on and I was truly amazed at the comments that dr. Bernard made regarding Philippians chapter 2 that's going to be big because on the simple level of the Greek text Dr. Bernard has no basis for the position that he took and I'm looking forward to To pressing that issue.

Let's listen just a little bit more than we'll start taking our calls.

And my second point is Jesus is the incarnation of that one undivided Godhead. He is not one of three persons. He is not a subordinate person. He is not a second person. But he is the Almighty the Alpha and Omega the beginning and the end the incarnation of the fullness of God.

In Colossians chapter 2 verse 9 we find this statement. Speaking of Jesus Christ for in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead. Bodily, the Godhead is that sum total of God's character quality attributes personality?

It's everything that makes him who he is.

Well, where does that come from? Where where does? Where does the Greek term they are tatas? Which is what is being translated. Colossians 2 9 give us the lexical foundation of that? Expansive meaning that has just been provided.

I've studied they are tatas pretty closely and. That goes way beyond anything that the lexical sources are going to provide you but now notice what's happened in the opening statement. In the opening point that was made a certain definition of the Godhead was given but without a foundation now.

That definition is used and plugged into a verse and see for many people for many people who do not listen carefully to Argumentation to see if it is solid if it's being presented in a meaningful fashion that is a very compelling type of argument and Unfortunately, we not only see that in the public discourse of our land constantly.

But here you have it in a theological context. We need to be clear thinkers. We need to be able to listen carefully and to follow a line of thinking. When we hear something being presented to us and we do set do that.

We already automatically see that that dr Bernard is is not building a solid case that can claim to be truly biblical. He is presenting a traditional case. But it is not a biblical case. Those are two very different things.

Evangelism, Church Offices, and Reformed Baptist Resources

Well. Since we have so many folks online and maybe some other folks want to get in maybe everybody figures. Hey since New York isn't going to be joining us today. Because they're sitting in the dark the moment big blackout back east that maybe the other folks be able to get in eight seven seven.

Seven five three three three four one. Let's start with Matthew in Dayton, Ohio. Hello Matthew.

How are you, sir? I'm doing good. I just wanted to say before I ask my question That I wanted to thank you for everything your ministry does. It's actually through your ministry that my best friend and his wife came to Understand the reform position.

I got in touch with your web resources and came to a knowledge of the reform Baptist Church.

And really they're just so much clearer for me. Yeah, great. That's wonderful. All right. Do you have power tonight?

Yeah.

Up in Cleveland. I think they're out of power. Yeah. Yeah, they are down here in Dayton. We're looking pretty good. Well good.

I'm glad glad you had power so you could listen in tonight and call in. What's your question?

Okay, it's sort of a two-part question. The meat of the question is It's someone new and in reform theology. I hear a lot of terms get bounced around a lot and two of those terms are Dispensationalism and covenant theology and I was just wondering how those fit into the reform perspective.

Foundational Writings maybe that you would say are absolutely Necessary or vital maybe as someone new.

To read and get exposed to the bigger concepts. Okay. Well, yeah, there are there are a number of books on on all sorts of different levels, I mean. There's some excellent publishers out there, you know one that I'd like to mention to folks and in fact, I hope I don't blow us off of the The air here by going on to the web.

Hopefully that that won't take place. But There's a a new publisher that that I personally am hoping to be able to to write for in fact eventually in light of.

Their.

Just some of the books are putting out solid ground Christian books I don't the the website here. It isn't popping up here. But if you just put in solid ground Actually solid ground books calm would be a good place to try to check out to otherwise do a Google search for it they've got some some really good stuff there and some really good prices to that you could look at and That'd be a good place to start.

But I mean there's all sorts of different levels of books from the the basic introductions to The Reformed Faith and the doctrines of grace to two things that go well beyond those particular areas and the application of the Reformed Faith to all of life.

I Think one of the best little books. It's actually a booklet that I strongly recommend to folks because it can help to get them out of what I call the cage stage. The cage stage is when a person becomes reformed in their theology and They they have much zeal but not a lot of wisdom and hence they tend to instead of lovingly present the truth to others they they use the the baseball bat methodology and They it's a book by a Reformed Baptist pastor a very well-known Reformed Baptist pastor by name of Al Martin and it's called the practical implications of Calvinism.

And I think it's a banner. Yeah, it's a banner of truth publication. It's probably not more than 20 pages 30 pages long, but it's it's very very good in basically communicating the fact that a proud and haughty spirit is the exact opposite of what anyone who believes in God's grace should ever have and It really is a humbling work and I would I would highly recommend it to you.

And then of course when you're really ready to Bend your mind around Deep things there's such things as obviously reading Jonathan Edwards. You know if you really want to feel like a complete and total moron you can read Edwards's sermon the hypocrites deficient in the duty of prayer that'll make you question your salvation and But his work on the the end for which God created the world and and all of his stuff is just truly amazing as well and you know there there's things like Turreton's Institutes of Atlantic theology that when I when I try to read his sections on dealing with Mullen ism I have to read paragraphs three or four times over to figure it out.

So there's everything in between. So it's good to find some of the the better websites like Trinity Bookstore online which is from Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Montville and and They've got a lot of good books and and and seeing what's what's out there and what's recommended now as to the question that you asked.

My you you like to ask the big ones. Basically very very simply most would understand the the difference between Covenant alism and dispensationalism and obviously they're all different kinds of Dispensationalism, there's the old-style dispensationalism of CI Schofield In the Schofield reference Bible and then the sort of modified version of that that a Charles Ryrie would present there's very common in Baptist circles in general and You've got extreme forms of it and now there's Progressive dispensationalism and there's all sorts of different variants of the term but most all forms of dispensationalism will not only Assert that God has saved in a in a different manner over the course of the the world so that Many people believe that a person was saved differently in the days of Moses and today rather than by faith.

There are other ways that were involved these disparate dis dispensations as they would refer to them but one of the key marks of Dispensationalism has to do with how one views Israel and the relationship of Israel in the church that becomes the the key element that that truly Marks a dispensational system.

Covenant theologians and again, there's all sorts of different types of covenants of Covenant alism. There would be covenant theologians who would say that someone such as myself who's reformed Baptist cannot possibly be a Described as a covenant theologian because they would make pato baptism.

A.

Definitional aspect of the covenant itself the London Baptist Confession of 1689 refers to very clearly The covenant of grace that God has always dealt with his people in a gracious manner and that all of the covenants that he has made with men down through the ages are based upon that overarching gracious purpose.

But the main thing that at least ties the forms of covenant alism together is is the rejection of the dispensational Distinctives in regards to the church and Israel and sees The promises that are given to the people of Israel in the Old Testament As as being given to the the new Israel the church.

And that these are not two wildly separate things in many forms of dispensationalism. The church and Israel are are radically separate from one another. And you see this in a lot of forms of prophecy teaching today where you know God has a purpose for the nation of Israel and and they're really focused upon that type of an aspect whereas covenantal theologians don't tend to have that kind of an emphasis at all and so even within covenantalism, however, there's there's all sorts of different perspectives in regards to.

The.

Issues of what are called continuity and discontinuity between old and new covenants and and The role of the Abrahamic covenants and and all the rest of stuff that all all comes together and and results in us sitting around and and Arguing with one another on all sorts of on all sorts of issues like that.

But there are numerous works on that one that I would really like to be able to recommend to you, but Unfortunately, it's not yet published because I've I've not only written for the book I've written a chapter for the book, but I've seen the outline of the other chapters that are there.

But is is a reformed Baptist work that is is going to be addressing many aspects of this Once it finally gets out, but and I obviously will be mentioning on the air when it when it finally does get released.

But you would find a number of books Follow some of the links from some of the websites that I mentioned earlier and you'd find a number of books that would Explain covenantalism from you from both a pedo-baptist and credo-baptist perspective.

Yeah, that's that's the nature of Brief answers on a webcast. Unfortunately. Yeah, there is a lot there and it's not something that we should even really I think desire to to master overnight. In fact, most of people I've ever met who claimed to have done so Did so in such a shallow fashion as to Really not have mastered it and and as long as you think you've mastered something when you didn't You'll never grow past that point.

So, you know, it's something that we all need to grow in. It's something, you know I'm awfully glad that I never have to worry about exhausting this the the study of God's truth and The study of these issues that's never going to happen.

So You know, that's that's a place to get started and Some of those links will help you to help you to get going. Okay. Oh, yeah. I appreciate it. All right. Thanks a lot Matthew. Thank you. All right.

God bless. Okay, seven seven seven five three three three four one we're gonna take our break and come back with Steve and blackout, New Jersey and Maurice in Florida that and Okay, Steve. I'll let you get started here.

It's okay boy just sings right over me like that. We'll write back right after this.

I.

Answering those who claim that only the King James Version is the Word of God James White in his book the King James only controversy examines allegations that modern translators conspired to corrupt Scripture and lead believers away from true Christian faith.

In a readable and responsible style author James White traces the development of Bible translations old and new and Investigates the differences between new versions and the authorized version of 1611.

You can order your copy of James White's book the King James only controversy by going to our website at www .a.

Omin org, what is dr. Norman Geisler warning the Christian community about in his book chosen, but free a new cult. Secularism false prophecy scenarios. No, dr. Geisler is sounding the alarm about a system of beliefs commonly called Calvinism.

He insists that this belief system is theologically inconsistent. Philosophically insufficient and morally repugnant. In his book the potter's freedom James White replies to dr. Geisler, but the potter's freedom is much more than just a reply.

It is a defense of the very principles upon which the Protestant Reformation was founded. Indeed it is a defense of the very gospel itself in a style that both scholars and laymen alike can appreciate.

James White masterfully counters the evidence against so-called extreme Calvinism. Defines what the reformed faith actually is and concludes that the gospel preached by the reformers is the very one taught in the pages of Scripture.

The potter's freedom a defense of the Reformation and a rebuttal to Norman Geisler's chosen. But free you'll find it in the reformed theology section of our bookstore at a omen. Or this portion of the dividing line has been made possible by the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church.

The Apostle Paul spoke of the importance of solemnly testifying of the gospel of the grace of God. The proclamation of God's truth is the most important element of his worship in his church. The elders and people of the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church invite you to worship with them this coming Lord's Day.

The morning Bible study begins at 9 30 a .m. And the worship service is at 10 45. Evening services are at 6 30 p .m. On Sunday and the Wednesday night prayer meeting is at 7. The Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church is located at 3805 North 12th Street in Phoenix.

You can call for further information at 602 2 6 grace. If you're unable to attend you can still participate with your computer and real audio at prbc .org. Where the ministry extends around the world through the archives of sermons and Bible study lessons available 24 hours a day.

Millions of petitioners from around the world are employing Pope John Paul II to recognize the Virgin Mary as co-redeemer with Christ. Elevating the topic of Roman Catholic views of Mary to national headlines and widespread discussion in his book Mary another Redeemer James White sidesteps hostile rhetoric and sites directly from Roman Catholic sources to explore this volatile topic.

He traces how Mary of the Bible esteemed mother of the Lord obedient servant and chosen vessel of God Has become the immaculately conceived bodily assumed Queen of Heaven. Viewed as co-mediator with Christ and now recognized as co-redeemer by many in the Roman Catholic Church Mary another Redeemer is fresh insight into the woman The Bible calls blessed among women and an invitation to single-minded devotion to God's truth.

You can order your copy of James White's book. Mary another Redeemer at a omen org.

Caller Steve on Evangelism and Church Offices

And welcome back to the dividing line, my name is James White. We are simply sitting here waiting to get blasted by very large monsoons storms if anyone has weather bug and you'd like to look at that just Pop in 85051 as your zip code and hit the radar and go.

Oh, look at all that green and red and yellow and stuff like that and it's heading straight toward Phoenix. Isn't that cool? It's really see his cover in like a quarter of the state is just like walking straight down toward us.

It'll probably all disappear though. It's it's weird how the monsoons work out here. All right. Why does everyone why is everyone so fascinated about that lady's voice? I wonder how many times I've gotten question who is that lady who did the advertisements on the dividing line?

I don't. Yes, it's like it's very very interesting. Anyway, let's go ahead and talk with them with Steve. Steve has moved to blackout, New Jersey. I've never heard of blackout, New Jersey, but. How are things in blackout, New Jersey Steve?

Well, I've got power dr. White. How are you? I'm doing pretty well.

It was fun driving today with no traffic lights. I.

Imagine that was sort of like bumper cars. No, actually, it was very good. People were generally very well behaved with that.

And.

Even in New York City, the people are usually pretty good at these things and handling these things. In fact, I don't even know if my brother's gotten out of the city yet.

Well, I've seen pictures of huge crowds of people so oh, yeah, and it becomes a.

They just want to become a make it a festive occasion. Everybody helps everyone out and make the best of it cool.

So anyway.

Here's my question. I was on the Listening to your Sunday school lessons on Romans the defense of the reformed faith or attacks against the reformed faith. Okay, and when you finished it up There was a section on evangelism when you were finishing up Romans 9 and you said.

You're assuming I'd actually remember things like this. That's You you sort of defined evangelism. Well, I mentioned I mentioned my assumption is that I Mentioned the fact that evangelism is frequently miss.

Identified as being solely external is that we're referring to here. Yeah, okay.

Okay, and then I'm looking at Ephesians 4 where it says he gives some apostles and some prophets and some evangelists and some pastor teachers and.

If.

Evangelism is internal. Then why would that not be part of what the pastor teacher does? Maybe that's answering the question too, but them.

Well again, I simply refer you to the fact that Paul uses the term evangelize and he used a lot utilizes it of his desire to evangelize the church at Rome and That's all I was referring to. I wasn't even addressing the issue of offices within the within the Ephesians Or anything along those lines.

The fact is he wanted to evangelize the already existing Church at Rome and hence to identify the term evangelism as Merely something that is external something that is only done outside of the church to individuals who are not believers.

Simply doesn't follow from the use of the term Evangelize the verb within the New Testament. As to the evangelists again That could be very well used of individuals who are Spreading the the word of the gospel.

But the term I was looking at is the verb not not the noun referring to an office. Yeah, so evangelism is something that is.

Throughout the church and to the outside of the church. It's something that goes on as opposed to someone who might take a specific part in that.

As an evangelist well an evangelist would certainly be someone who proclaims the gospel and that that Would normally frequently most frequently be done With outside is in the sense of the way we use the term evangelism, but like I said the verb itself is utilized of work within the the Churches itself.

Okay, okay, all right. Well, I'm glad you survived the blackout back there.

Oh did too. And by the way I you mentioned Al Martin before. Yes, I just saw him Tuesday night. Oh really I live about 15 minutes from where the where the church is. Oh, okay good I do get over there from time to time all right.

Well.