Cultish: UFO's & the world of the Occult (Part 2)

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Inside the Mind of Manson: Part 3

00:24

All right, welcome back ladies and gentlemen to cultish entering the kingdom of cults a

00:29

Kingdom of the cults. My name is Jeremiah Roberts. I am one of the co -hosts here Andrew.

00:34

It's not good to have you back Yes, lots lots to sleuth around about today

00:41

Regarding the UFO phenomena going all the way back to the 40s the 50s and 60s We were talking about the

00:47

Department of Defense being involved Al Socralee Jack Parsons and a CIA It's the can of worms and there's so much to unpack.

00:56

How do you make sense of all these things? Is that even approaching this from a Christian worldview or even so if you listen to this anyone who talks to the

01:04

UFO phenomena? They always have a lens that they view things through Huge important topic today, especially considering current events.

01:12

We have back on with us Ray Bosch. How are you my friend? We are we are doing well, we are we're we're taking this one day at a time as As the news want to say we're trying to make sense of this or as you said people trying to make sense as in dollars and cents

01:31

That's that gonna be in a whole nother podcast. Lots of people trying to make sense of this. Obviously we get messages all the time about Whatever whoever the whatever the latest person is trying to figure this whole thing out

01:42

So anyways what you just heard there was some UFO footage that was audio of the

01:48

UFO footage We'll post this on our social media. In fact, we've done a little bit but this was released from the

01:54

Pentagon about It was roughly about a week by the time we done this podcast, it probably would have been about two or three weeks ago and declassified

02:03

Declassified and people like Tom DeLonge came out We would talked about one of our previous episodes and said, oh looks they got finally glad they released my footage

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It was kind of like saying like a hi I told you so sort of thing and you know, he was kind of putting it out there and people like Jeremy Corbell and yeah,

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Jeremy Corbell and You have other people to that are prominent people in to the Stars Academy that we talked about one of our previous episodes but at rate

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Just give me your thoughts on this this disclosure or the Pentagon confirming those because a lot of people have this attitude about so what?

02:36

Why is this matter? Is this some sort of wag the dog false flag? Just trying to kind of get a deterrent to current events and in government overreach and it may be an improper response to this pandemic

02:48

Just give me give me just given all your background throughout the years in the UFO Discussion when you first heard about this disclosure and these footage being released like what what are your thoughts on that?

03:00

Well, we've got to go back to The first footage that was taken that was released

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There's the go fast the gimbal and the tic -tac. Mm -hmm footage that was released

03:13

Yes, the one was recorded in 2004. Yeah One was in 2000 or the other two were in 2015

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And they were recorded on both coasts one off the coast of San Diego about a hundred miles one off the coast of Virginia So these have been around for a while The interesting thing about this of why they're so significant

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You have pilots flying f -18 Hornets Which are arguably?

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the best aircraft That are flown off aircraft carriers in the world and they're seeing things that perform in ways

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They can't explain Accelerated rates that are impossible make maneuvers that Can't be done with any sort of aircraft.

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We know So what these what these Navy pilots are seeing is extraordinarily significant

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We don't know if these are some secret aircraft that we've developed secret aircraft that another nation has developed or something from another planet another dimension somewhere else

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So we don't know what they are, but we know that they're significant because you have some of the best pilots on the face of the planet

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Seeing things that they can't understand Moving in ways that they can't explain and so this is extraordinarily significant just from a military point of view if this belongs to someone else and It outperforms some of the best aircraft we have

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How do we how do how can we possibly defend against it? Is it a threat could be might not be we don't know but it's not something that you want to ignore

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And for this to come out and for the Pentagon to finally officially

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Declassify it and the reason it took a while for it to be officially declassified They wanted to be certain that as you look at those clips you see a lot of telemetry on the sides and across the bottom of the frame of video and some of those things are showing performance characteristics of the aircraft

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They may not want other countries to know what exactly the performance characteristics really are

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Oh wow, so so that's the kind of reasoning that they used to say no We can't declassify that because it's got too much sensitive information

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Regarding our own aircraft. It's not necessarily so much the object They're following but the capabilities that we have they don't want the

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Chinese or the Soviets or the Iranians or whoever To understand exactly what we have.

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So that's the reason it takes a long time to declassify some of these things So it's extraordinarily significant.

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We finally did and said no we were okay. Here we go This is these are real.

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We don't know what they are So they're not the and interestingly they've changed the terminology.

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They're not referred to as unidentified flying objects anymore They're referred to as unexplained aerial phenomena

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UAPs So change in terminology Don't know whether that's significant or not.

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I I don't know. They may just want to get rid of the stigma of UFO Right change it to something else.

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But this is a this is a significant thing and it may and these

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These kinds of rumors have been around for decades but this may be something that is going to Lead to more disclosure of Information that the government has heretofore decided they shouldn't

07:10

Release the public. Hmm. That's what's weird to like not even Maybe two years ago

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Trump all of a sudden start. He says that he's gonna do the Space Force You know what? I mean? And now we got a disclosure of this

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UAP You know this classified information being released to the public About three weeks ago.

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There's just things that I find very interesting, you know in regards to timing, especially when the government's calculated, right?

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It's not like they just drop these things at willy -nilly. It's like they're pretty calculated in the in the decisions that they make Go ahead.

07:40

Well, I know I was just gonna say it's yeah, they don't they don't do anything by chance I mean, you know there there are times when their hand is forced and they have to it and they have to release something but It's generally pretty well thought out before anything comes out

07:58

Now yeah, definitely so and in fact it's one of those things too when you look at the UFO phenomenon even that like for example the tic -tac footage and If you guys don't know what we're referring to just just look it up look up in YouTube You understand we're talking about you'll see that footage.

08:11

That's one of them Yeah, that's one of them. And so when you're looking at it when you have like a worldview where you're it's strict.

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It's strictly Materialism and you're viewing science through that light where you're not taking to account anything any of the spiritual

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Then of course that you have to identify as unexplained when you're strictly dealing it through materialist

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But then you also have the opposite end of someone who ignores the physical but is mostly on an unhealthy in a very unhealthy way

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Focused in on the spiritual where you end up being Gnostic and in many ways It seemed that's a lot more where someone like Stephen Greer What it would especially be because of the type of spirituality.

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I remember just watching watching His Disclosure documentary wasn't cameras at the fifth time of the fifth kind and so it's like with him someone bring we talked to me and Jeff talked a little bit about us and he's at Jeff had it

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It was good to have him do a little cameo that was nice I love that it is so what we'll do more up at UFO episodes

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We can get Jeff back on but you notice that when it comes to again

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Looking at he's there's a lot of things at the very beginning that he stated that from my understanding are pretty factually accurate

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In regards to how the government has dealt with UFOs and in many ways has had tried to cover it up That then immediately it was a gateway into having these close encounters of the fifth kind using these different groups and Just these meditative groups and using in many ways.

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I think they had the different like crystals and they had Different ways to really kind of get into an altered state of consciousness

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And and they almost they almost saw in their sightings They had footage and again you'd in the documentary that sort of looked like mini tic -tacs.

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Yeah, the night -vision goggles. Yeah, so interesting little side note to we talked about last episode

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Aliester Crowley and This entity called lamb you can go look up the the

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Google image Jeff did while we were talking and actually what's really interesting I'm gonna relate this to Steve Steven Greer is during their documentary

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He shows an image right because during these seances where they're doing this trend these transcendental meditation techniques

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They take a lot of photos and there's a photo of this like light being and it has a triangular shaped head

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So it's very narrow at the chin and it gets really wide up top It looks strikingly similar to the drawings of lamb that Aliester Crowley was doing

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I have I have to say that because that's the first thing that popped in my mind when Jeff pulled up the image of this LAM character.

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I thought that was very interesting. Yeah Um, you know while we're on the topic of Steven Greer and his ce -5s

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I would I Really feel compelled to war to warn people

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The movie if you if you try to look up anything about Greer Afterwards, it'll take you to the close encounters of the fifth kind website and he wants to sell you an

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App for your Android or iPhone That teaches you how to have a ce -5

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Please don't put $10 in his pocket and don't expose yourself to spiritual harm by doing that it's

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It's a money -making deception. I Believe Steven Greer is sincere in his belief that this is good

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But he's deceived yeah, and so I just as a warning Keep your $10.

11:43

Hmm Yeah, and that's yeah, and that's but this is an example too is The cults have always evolved with how they communicate how they recruit and for example, you're not seeing

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Too many Jehovah's Witnesses out in the streets right now All their booths are gone because they're not going door -to -door

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Because of social distancing because of the stay -at -home orders, so they are they're being affected

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You're seeing all the missionaries who are all throughout the entire world We made this joke about how almost we did this five -part series about how to talk to more missionaries

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And then every single more mission the world had to go home There's no one to talk to but you know, we still it's still blessed a lot of people but There's always going to be adjustments to the world's always evolving via technology

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But now you're going to have the kingdom of the cults the kingdom of the occult always evolving

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To be able propagate their ideas so you can be stuck at home You can be bored and start what y 'all soon you hear something on Fox News Steven Greer is on Laurie Ingram talking about his about disclosure and talking about these recent

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Pentagon revealings and now you can easily go to an app on your phone without leaving your house to all of a sudden experience a close encounter the fifth kind and Expose yourself to things that God talked about so long ago just remember

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Satan is a liar and the father of liars and He he exists solely to deceive us and so be on guard be on guard

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No, absolutely, so another I couldn't agree with you more so one of the question

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I have is when it were so we're talking about the understanding aliens and the

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UFO phenomena from a Christian worldview and you we can make a definitive case that in many levels it is demonic and So because again you once you always see this parallel as you state again

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It always there's always a gateway to go into the world the occult we kind of gave examples in our last episode talking about different projects that high level government officials were involved in both in the

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CAA Department of Defense and then again That's in the book that you had recommended and about fight that you had you talked about so when it comes to understanding

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What this is so you're looking at the tic -tac footage and you're looking at something that's verifiable via a lens through an f -18

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Hornet and You're seeing that and there's an element where that's it's physical, but then you see an

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Aspect of its spiritual because alien encounters as many times even Stephen Bancar's in his book. He was talking about how

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It's just interesting enough. He got into my friend Stephen. He was a former New Ager He got into the

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New Age because he started watching ancient aliens on the History Channel And It just so encounter when he started really kind of going down this rabbit hole

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He used to experience encounters himself, and there's many like him that experienced it But it was always through some sort of crossing over and many of these many of these encounters

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They always seem to have an interest in the fact that Jesus was not the Son of God So if there's a if it's just some sort of ET creature coming from another planet

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What interest do they have in a historical figure in history that it's a good question to have

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So I want to get your take Ray the spiritual and the physical I would say it's a bit of both

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From your Christian perspective How do we make sense of this of the physical evidence of the things that we're seeing?

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But then the spiritual component because it's very easy to emphasize one over the other like how do we make sense of that via?

15:32

everything that scripture says about the reality of the world in which we live in I think we have to We have to guard against one thing which is sometimes all too prevalent and that's this idea that Christians have somehow checked their mind at the door when they accepted

15:56

Christ as their Savior Yes, we we have to stay cognizant of the fact that As I mentioned in the last episode science and Theology are not opposed to one another

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So if we keep in mind that when we see physical phenomena like the tic -tac

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UFO like the gimbal like the go fast UFO when we see physical objects that are are

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Really there they're actual physical things interacting with their environment doing impossible things

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We have to say okay, what could this be could this be something from Well, it's let's leave

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Earthly things laws could this be something from another planet? Mm -hmm. And I think as Christians we have to say

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Could be that's a possibility Because I don't see anything in scripture that prohibits the existence of life elsewhere

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I don't think we can put God in a box and say he didn't create life elsewhere

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Now is it like us? I don't know. We know that he created two kinds of life angelic life spiritual beings and human beings

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But could there be a third type or a fourth or a fifth that we don't know anything about so I think we can't

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We can't ignore The fact that these might be craft from somewhere else that's a possibility

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Until we have one that we can take apart and look at and test

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We're stuck with only the evidence that we can record with instrumentation cameras

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Radar those sorts of things in our eyes The only other thing we can test as I mentioned before is

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The content of the information The alleged occupants of these craft give to humans

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That's all we can judge by and when we look at that we see entities who

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Only want to denigrate Christianity the Judeo -christian tradition and the

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Judeo -christian scriptures I have never run across in gosh 55 years of Doing this

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I've never run across a case where an entity has said You know

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We're just astounded we come from this other planet and we're amazed that how did Buddha what a nut how did you ever begin to follow him right or what's up with these

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Hindus? But how did you come up with these 13 plus million gods? This is just insane

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You never see any criticism of a earthly religion other than Christianity And so, you know,

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I would I'd be much more open to these being Extraterrestrial beings if they said hey, you know, you're your whole spiritual thing.

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You guys are just you're a mess. You've never gotten right Mm -hmm. I could I could accept that as Being from a physical being from somewhere else as opposed to why are you only picking on Christianity?

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Why among all of the scriptures the holy writings of religions on this planet?

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Do you only? Refute and tear down the Bible Hmm, that doesn't make any sense to me because you only pick on one

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That makes me perk up and say I bet there's something to this that they don't want us to recognize

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This must be the true one that they want to try and tear down Now that that may that makes that makes complete sense

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Cuz there's one other question I had on my mind my mind's running a Kind of got one when

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I'm thinking in regards to scripture of like maybe a scriptural basic base argument for possibly the existence

20:03

The non -existence of other extraterrestrial life. I think of the creation account in Genesis 1 Yeah, it wasn't until the fourth day that it says that the stars were created and it was for seasons in measurements of time

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So the earth would have been created prior to the rest of the stars, right?

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So we would have been the I mean, I'm thinking in terms of the creation account according to Genesis Genesis So what what do you think about that ray?

20:28

well, I think that the creation account at Genesis is an Explanation of the entire creation of the entire universe plus us specifically

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So could he could God have created life elsewhere and just decided these guys don't need to know about it

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I'm not gonna tell them because they don't need to know I think I think that's a possibility

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Do I think it's it's probable? I don't I see what you're saying. Okay, I get you, you know,

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I I think we need to When somebody says look at this entire universe look at look at the fabulous

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Vistas of the universe that the Hubble Space Telescope has shown us what a waste if that's all empty

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Well, no, it's not because the heavens declare the glory of God Amen, if you go if you go to the

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Westminster Catechism, what's the first question? What's the chief end of man?

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To glorify God and to enjoy him forever Yeah, so, you know, our whole purpose is to glorify

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God There's a I mean, you know, we Monty Python could have answered the question the meaning of life in ten minutes

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But but So, yes, it's all out there it all glorifies

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God could there be other life I think that's a possibility Yeah, do I think it's probable?

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Not really, but I can't I can't say it's an impossibility so and sometimes when we say it's an impossibility then

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People of that materialistic mechanistic yoke will look at us and say well you fools

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You're making pronouncements that you can't make because there's no way you can prove that there's not not other life out there

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No, we tend to lose credibility with the scientific community and so if we want to reach them if we want to if we want to Have them understand we have a valid viewpoint that we think you should consider we need to we need to to make statements that That appreciate the the scientific method and those things that Science has been able to prove in terms of thinking

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God's thoughts after him. How did he do this? Gotcha. Does that make sense? Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

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Yeah, you're pretty much saying that we can't deny the creation account, right? but we also can't say that Just just for the sake of the conversation that there's an impossibility of other life

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But the improbability arises when these UFOs or UAPs that we're seeing when we get in contact with them

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It doesn't point to extraterrestrial life it the evidence points to something different in nature something more spiritual

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It's kind of what I'm hearing from that. I like that. Absolutely, right it points to it It's points to something of a spiritual nature yeah, and so one of the things

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I also want to bring up Ray is that we've been kind of focusing on the demonic aspects of the

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UFOs and its relation to the occult and so we were kind of dealing with that a lot and in certain aspects within again within the government

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Through the 40s 50s 60s and 70s and even from the time that you were consulting with them so There's been

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I've seen this documentation Both with from people I've known who are New Agers Both friends of mine and people

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I've seen just video testimonies of people who get into the occult they experience spiritual encounters and they end up Getting for all intents and purposes

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Experiencing alien abduction, but for whatever mysterious reason Whatever they call out to the name of Jesus Or just using the name

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Jesus Christ, even if they're not a quote -unquote Christian There's all of a sudden In many cases the abduction stops

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This is one of those moments to delay a case for something the Bible talks about you need to have independent line

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Specifically two to three independent lines of testimony Mm -hmm If you look at the documented evidence of people who are who have experienced that it's a lot more than two and three

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So it's important at least to have a conversation about it. So Ray and all your time Being in this having this interest and dealing this from a

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Christian perspective and even talking with government officials Are they aware of this aspect of the

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UFO phenomena how they handled it or just what's your? Take on this whole on that whole topic in general.

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I Think there are people in the government who are who are certainly aware of that I Think for the most part they

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It's a non -issue for them because and that applies to those who are not believers Because they can't they can't see a correlation between it's you know, it's it's a strange coincidence

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Or sometimes that they will write people who have those sorts of Experiences off as well.

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That was some sort of Diluted fantasy that you had and it wasn't really an actual event

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But I think they're certainly aware of it. I have I have only seen one instance of an abduction victim who who had an experience that on the surface seem to be compatible with Christian a

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Christian worldview, but when you really start to look at it, it all falls apart and it's just It's just a facade that's there.

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What was he saying? well, there were some things about The the great being being

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God the Father and Just a lot of things I don't want to I don't want to go into too much detail because I don't want

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I don't want To encourage people to read about it, right? Right? Okay, right

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But but that's the only case I've ever seen where there was any sort of Spiritual Aspect of it that was relevant at all to Christianity.

27:10

Hmm. Hmm. Yeah, you're right the the number of people who who have been frightened and who have called on the name of Christ even not being believers and have stopped the abduction process and even multiple abductions may have may have gone occurred before and Then they call them the name of Christ and they stop

27:32

Is That's a very solid thing

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Joe Jordan and some others who were involved with that They have done a good job of documenting those cases and again, if if Christ were not who he claimed to be

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Why would that have any impact on? On these entities, yeah, if they and if they were

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Denizens of another planet from another galaxy who'd managed to slip through a wormhole and come to visit us

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Why would that have any effect on them they might say Jesus well, tell me about this guy.

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Who are you talking about? You know, who are you invoking to get us to stop doing this?

28:26

But it seems it seems that it always works pretty clear indication to me that we're dealing with something demonic and it fits exactly into The parameters that are given in Scripture Call on the name of the

28:44

Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved Love it. Yeah, so there's a one level where it's like it's complex dealing with something of an abduction and then calling out

28:53

To the name of Jesus and it's stopping but there's a little simplicity that this is just a confirmation

28:59

This is what God said in his word and you're seeing a reality both in the physical in the spiritual realm conformed to that And so again, there's a level in which you know, you're talked about how it's sort of changed from unidentified to unexplained

29:13

And that really seems to be and it's interesting too just because throughout all the years the government has been involved in the

29:20

UFO phenomena since Since the 1940s really of the event over Los Angeles when that happened

29:28

We talked about that in the last episode There's still the fact that there there's a level where it's still really identified not as unidentified but as unexplained

29:38

Shows that there's just there's aspects in which they don't understand but they want to I think it a lot of times they want

29:43

To give a perception that they they're in control. They know it what they're doing So one of the aspects also the fascinating mean we got a lot of comments on our social media

29:52

I just want to get your take on this and this had to deal with with kind of a PR aspect of the government

29:58

Project blue beam that was sort of mentioned in the final events book We got some comments on our social media wanting in our thoughts on that We don't have too much many thoughts and excise for the fact that we want to hear you hear from you

30:14

So We're always excited to learn it and again, these are just this is another just kind of interesting aspect of history, so Project blue book

30:26

Blue book or blue beam Okay, my bad. You have to correct just just like the

30:33

Kelly blue book. Yeah. Oh, perfect. Okay Not quite Project blue book was the third

30:44

In a series of projects that the government started to explore the UFO question.

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The first was project sign and project sign

30:58

Came to the conclusion that these are probably interplanetary craft. Well the

31:04

The powers -that -be in Washington didn't like that so they had that report destroyed and Started a second iteration of a called project grudge

31:16

And project grudge continued for a few years and finally it would changed its name then to project blue book

31:23

The project blue book ran from I I believe Don't quote me as gospel on this

31:30

I believe 1952 1969 and project blue book

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Was supposed to be the government's be -all end -all

31:47

Exploration of the UFO question But as I mentioned last episode

31:54

I became friends with Jay Allen Heineck the astronomer from Northwestern University Who was the scientific consultant of blue book for over 20 years and Allen was convinced that those cases of great interest and high strangeness that came into project blue book were shuttled off to another agency another division in the

32:20

Air Force to be explored and Project blue book got more of the mundane ones and project blue book in Heineck's opinion was simply a ploy by the

32:30

Air Force To convince the public that there was nothing to the UFO question while the actual investigation of really unexplained things

32:39

We're going on somewhere else Then in 1969 General Carol Bollender Air Force general who had oversight over blue book

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Wrote the memo discontinuing it and in that he said Encounters which might affect national security

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Have never been part of project blue book And it was just sort of almost like a throwaway line in this memo canceling blue book

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But he tipped his hand that those things that really were significant were never part of blue book anyway

33:18

And so because he said there's nothing to be gained scientifically. We don't believe that Flying saucers

33:27

UFOs are a threat to national security And you know those that are a threat to national security were never part of project blue book anyway, so that's interesting

33:36

It's like a bait -and -switch almost. Yeah, so they so they closed it down and That's what

33:42

Alan Heineck started the Center for UFO studies where he could he could put his efforts in the efforts of Many other interested scientists

33:51

Toward trying to actually explore and solve Some of the harder cases that were out there.

33:58

No no solid answers even to this day, but they're still they're still unexplained, but The phenomena is still there

34:09

Yeah, it's it's alive and well Yeah, so is there an aspect though where there is you because we talked a little before the podcast where there is also kind of Sort of disinformation to the public because they didn't want panic to happen because it wasn't something they fully

34:25

Didn't understand or control you said that there are times in which someone would see something and they would say oh that was

34:32

Just happened to the planet Venus going by it very quickly There was an aspect of that to just sort of keeping the public in check or just somewhat

34:40

Absolutely giving them somewhat of an answer They wanted to give they wanted to give Well me back go back another step or two in 1952 there was the

34:54

CIA convened a panel called the Robertson panel that was the scientist who headed it up to discuss the

35:01

UFO question and Alan Heineck was part of that that panel and the the fear that the

35:09

CIA had was Could a rash of UFO sightings

35:18

Cause enough public outcry and enough flooding of the communication channels that with this

35:28

UFO mass UFO sighting the Soviets could launch an attack and it would not be noticed

35:34

Hmm, so they were concerned from a national security standpoint from that from that vantage point so the

35:43

CIA Robertson panel came up with a Fabulous way to remove a lot of the public interest from The UFO question and that was bring a curtain of ridicule down So every but so, you know

36:05

You'd see a UFO report in the paper and it's a you know So -and -so would saw this strange object and he swears he wasn't drinking

36:15

Okay Yeah, it was it was but there was there was always some way to Try to make the person who reported it look foolish if they didn't do that, then they would make the

36:29

What they had seen? They would make the assertion that what was seen was obviously something else and this person was just confused

36:38

So they brought this curtain of ridicule down on the whole topic and so that really

36:44

Then began the the era from 52 on Where thanks to manipulation of the media by the government?

36:54

the general public began to look at every report of UFO and Those who reported them as crazy, right?

37:02

Hmm. They created a conspiracy and they stigma they stigmatized It's almost in a fact where like they were gaslighting they made all the people who were

37:11

Seeing things they made him feel like they're the ones who are really crazy or that they were hallucinating when in fact they saw something

37:16

That it has shown to be there. We don't know. We don't know completely tangibly what it is, but it's something that Yeah, go ahead.

37:25

You know, you know what that makes me think so when you do that to people You know what that's gonna make them do I want to know what this is even harder

37:32

So it makes them actually get into these occult practices Right because they go to it.

37:38

They want some kind of answer exactly. No, they're not crazy They want to so they're they gravitate to anyone who will tell them the wildest possible

37:48

Explanation for it, but they they're made to feel welcome and not crazy.

37:53

Hmm Yeah, and in fact didn't you speak in a crazy? I think I we might talk about this a little in the last episode or maybe off off in between episodes.

38:02

Is that Like Tom DeLong and we've talked about him and his involvement. He's in the series right now unidentified

38:09

He's he's in that featured a couple different times and he's working with different people There is that when

38:14

I first heard him on Joe Rogan talking about when he about his involvement with the government to help

38:20

Release these documents to the public Everyone who were commenting thought that Tom had lost his mind and that he was crazy and I was just generally concerned

38:31

I like I'm worried about this guy's mental health. He must have just kind of gone over the edge and It wasn't until later on Where I began to kind of look at the evidence

38:40

I talked with Colin a lot who is on her show and I also we appreciate calling for making this connection to have this

38:46

Show happen. Yes. Thank you. Yes But um, hopefully once is also once once this all dies down and we get fully funded

38:53

Lord willing go to the cult of show Calm go to the donate tab. We'll plug there, but we want to go out to We want to go out to Nevada.

39:01

We want to shoot an episode right outside here They're 51 or as close as we're allowed to get. Yeah as low as close as we're allowed to social distance away

39:10

But But Yeah, but it wasn't until you started sharing me more information stuff started coming out and specifically, you know

39:19

Colin told me about it But it was a WikiLeaks dump that happened during the 2016 election where this came out that Tom DeLonge wasn't in contact with his officials

39:27

So you see like a lot of different disinformation that's happened and also

39:33

Another question I have we can this is this could be a whole nother topic and it was one of my favorite topics as movies

39:39

I'm a huge movie person. I'm a big I'm a big movie nerds There's a t -shirt I saw the other day says I can

39:45

I talk in movie quotes So I do that all the time, you know, I do I pretty much do so I'm thinking about just growing up I'm thinking of all the different Films that kind of influenced my ideas of aliens.

39:57

So we have movies like The Last Starfighter Independence Day ET x -files

40:03

Mars attacks Mars I mean and in fact, you know even recent movies that weren't necessarily an action science fiction movie

40:12

But it was with Jeremy Renner and Amy Adams called arrival and most of the time they're sort of sitting in this weird sort of in between their place where they're like almost like a mediation going on right right and there's this weird handwriting on the symbols almost like automatic writing and so it's a really interesting film and It's it's so well your take following this the whole time and knowing the government's involvement, especially with Misinformation or trying to kind of give a narrative to the public

40:45

I mean usually as a filmmaker you have creative freedom to do what you want to do and you kind of submit a script to Hollywood and there's a whole process but is there there's always a narrative.

40:54

Yeah, there's always a narrative like have you seen a role as far as how Aliens are portrayed in Hollywood as far as like what the government wants to see and maybe even how it's related

41:04

To aliens from a biblical perspective or like how does that fit in from everything in your experience?

41:10

I think there is and has been Definitely at least at the very least since World War two

41:21

From World War two onward there's been an incredible presence and an incredible pressure at least subtly

41:31

From the intelligence community of the United States To Hollywood, it's it's it's been there ever since the

41:47

World War two saw the promotion of Patriotic propaganda.

41:55

Mm -hmm to to help the American public understand Why We were fighting this war and why the tremendous loss of life was worthwhile

42:09

It was a very noble way to do it in my opinion But it carried on there in not so noble ways

42:20

And so you've seen you've seen an influence in In Hollywood ever since and your your reaction to Tom DeLong and his announcement about the to the stars

42:34

Academy of Arts and Sciences is Directly a result of the 1952 Robertson panel in the curtain of ridicule you're conditioned like you're yes

42:43

Straight up. Absolutely heard the noise you start salivating. Yeah That's it was that's just that that's just a perfect example of their success

42:53

At achieving the end that they wanted to hmm So, you know again we

42:59

I Don't want to say I'm you know, I'm I'm 65. I'm old enough and have been involved in this long enough.

43:08

I Can tend to get very cynical about some things right, but I try to avoid the cynicism and instead

43:18

Channel it into More of a reality check and so when I see something

43:23

I'm I'm always questioning Okay, where's? Where's where's this coming from?

43:32

What's what could be behind this? Is there any evidence there is anything behind this? And I think

43:38

I think an informed public Needs to do that I This is this is kind of off -topic, but you know as just as a concerned person a citizen of the

43:53

United States, I really am appalled at the The politicization of our news media.

44:00

Oh, yeah, it is you it is almost impossible to get an unbiased news report

44:09

From anywhere. Yeah, I mean, it's just it's just it's it's astounding and that's the the press

44:18

Are supposed to be the guardians of our freedom. They're supposed to be the whistleblowers

44:23

They're supposed to be the ones who are out there and they've everybody's got an agenda Yeah, and it's just it's it's crazy

44:30

So you've got to open your eyes and look at what's going on whether it's I mean whether it's politics whether it's presidential election

44:37

Whether it's the topic of UFOs What what is happening here? And what's the real truth start to dig?

44:45

Mm -hmm. Wow, I think most of our listeners have probably seen the video too of all the different news outlets

44:52

And they're all repeating the same Information there's like this is very dangerous for our democracy.

44:57

Yeah, it's like wow Isn't that crazy? Yeah, I was my jaw dropped when I saw mine too.

45:03

Yeah disbelief almost I was like wow Yeah, and I think this is almost the distrust in media and sources

45:12

There's levels in which that's it's there's level in which is good because if you see

45:18

People are wanting to fact -check and verify There is something just recently for example.

45:25

It was it was CBS News and They got caught with their pants down metaphorically speaking, but they

45:34

Basically staged an event of People in line to get testing for kovat 19 supposedly they're short they hired a bunch of actors to make this thing

45:43

It's with project Veritas. Oh my god, and I Just saw some of the video but there but now all of a sudden they're being put under pressure

45:52

This has happened multiple times where you see footage being cut I think there was one too where it was they're talking about it was in Syria Where they took the footage was supposed to be it was supposed to be this war and the footage were all these tracers and bullets

46:08

And explosions happening, but turns out it was just sort of this giant firearms gun show taking some place in the

46:14

Midwest Yeah, yeah, yeah, and they they cropped that footage and they kind of saw it so I think one of the things too is that Maybe someone like Steve when you see the government in many particular ways and you know

46:28

We could even have a whole episode on almost the cultist nature of the state which is a whole another can of worms to but What ends up?

46:38

I think what ends up happening too is because you're seeing Media and you're seeing government and you're seeing all these people that you're supposed to quote -unquote trust

46:46

Lying to you dead like just constantly day in and day out People are just saying

46:52

I want to find a different source So that makes someone like Steven Greer and Close Encounters of the

46:58

Fifth Kind appealing Because he's saying you want the government has been lying to this whole time is about aliens and UFOs right and so go ahead let me go ahead and show you a way you can kind of take the middleman out and Just find out the truth for yourself and experience these

47:14

Close Encounters of the Fifth Time and and download my app for nine Dollars and 99 cents don't do it by the way

47:20

Yeah, like you said before it's it's got to got talked about a thousand years ago Rudy Deuteronomy chapter 18 that is bad news

47:28

Don't do it, but it makes you would agree like that I think that's an aspect where that line they people to kind of jump into the

47:35

UFO phenomena and an unhealthy way I think that's an example of that. What do you think? Absolutely, you know, it's

47:46

Again they're They're given away They believe

47:53

To I think I think I love the way you put it to cut out the middleman Look, you want to experience this for yourself?

47:59

Here's how you do it Here's how you do it. It's it's really It's it's the 2020 version of Timothy Leary's turn on tune in and drop out hmm

48:14

Yeah, you you want to find out you want to find out what's real really going on you want to know Okay, we're stuck in this terrible war in Vietnam.

48:22

You want you want to know what's really going in? All right, get some LSD turn on tune in drop out mmm, and it's

48:32

You know Greer's Close Encounters of the Fifth Kind is kind of the the 20 2020 version of that.

48:39

Mmm Same same principle just you know, no, don't let anybody else tell you about this.

48:44

You want to know about God? Drop some acid and experience in yourself Wow, see this is this is what's making me think let me get a little like Christian Alex Jones's for a second in regards to The media spinning a narrative the government making people salivate at the ding of a bell

49:00

I'm thinking of Psalm 2 right the kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers take counsel together against the

49:07

Lord and against it and his anointed saying let us Tear their fetters apart and cast away their cords from us But he who sits in the heavens laughs the

49:14

Lord scoffs at them Then he will speak to them in his anger and terrify them in his fear saying but as for me

49:19

I have installed my king upon Zion my holy mountain I will surely to tell to tell of the decree of the

49:25

Lord's let me get a little Alex Jones's So let's say the government knows what's going on. Let's say that they know it's demonic

49:30

Well now if they know it's demonic now They have to presuppose Christianity and everything that they do in Christianity and what it declares is

49:37

Christ is King not the state. Mm -hmm. So let's not let Christ be King Let's spin the narrative get confused the masses, but the

49:45

Lord laughs Right, there's my little Alex Joe little I'm a little Christian Alex Jones's right there

49:51

I was tripping out just thinking about the spinning of the narrative Hopefully the iTunes AI doesn't like shadow ban because you said he said the name much

49:59

He's like the vault. He's like the Voldemort or the internet world. It's like the Internet He's like a name that must not be named there's a conspiracy for you

50:07

Let me toss let me toss something else out there. Yeah, that's right along with that Could and you know,

50:15

I I certainly don't By any stretch of the imagination approved for everything

50:22

Donald Trump has done or how he conducts himself at all times but From the time he's taken office

50:29

There has been a Bible study in the Oval Office every morning every morning and I Might my opinion if he wasn't a believer when he took office.

50:44

I believe he is now. Oh, wow, and I I wonder how much of the dissent against him and just the vitriolic hatred of him

50:57

Stems from the fact that He's Becoming centered around Christ And that that Very act of a

51:15

Bible study in the Oval Office every morning launches

51:22

Incredible spiritual attack against him and against everyone who's involved Hmm yeah, just just pure speculation on my part.

51:31

Yeah, and then yeah, and that's honestly that's something we should hope for Yeah, love hopes for all things and that's why

51:36

God calls us to pray for our governing authorities And I know like I said, you're all we're all largely influenced by television, you know so I remember like one of my favorite shows for example was 24 with Kiefer Sutherland back in 2001.

51:52

I loved it such a brilliant Concept you've got 24 hours Broken out into 24 episodes if you guys haven't watched it

52:01

I will no spoilers except to say that there's always some sort of terrorist crisis going on And so one episode the very first episode for example,

52:09

I think was what took place from 1 a .m. To 2 p .m Episode 2 is from 2 p .m.

52:15

To 3 p .m So the whole episode the whole season is always 24 hours But the one thing you always saw was that There's always the things going on behind the scenes between the different government

52:25

Agencies and the people always sort of trying to topple on top of each other even when there's the nuclear bomb About to go off which it goes off They're all gonna be incinerated

52:33

But they're still trying to kind of get on top of each other and and and out do one another and they're all playing sort

52:39

Of their own version of chess against each other But then you see what's portrayed to like that to the media

52:44

So even when you look at all the headlines There's a lot going on behind the scenes that we don't know but we know that God is it

52:50

God is obviously sovereign behind that and And that and that's one things too is that a lot of times even with this

52:57

UFO phenomena We're looking at what we're talking. This has been your area of research

53:03

You said you first got fastest since you're 10 years old. You're 65. You're you're speaking from some you're speaking of someone who 55 years of experience a lot of documented evidence

53:15

There's a lot there's even though probably a lot you still haven't begun to like this I'm sure to scratch the surface

53:22

As far as you know all of this different topics just regarding this specific area of UFOs and This is but this is an area.

53:29

We have lots of Independent lines of testimony documented evidence throughout the years that you can make sense of from a

53:36

Christian worldview And there's something you look at the different people that are involved. It's not something I should panic about It's an aspect where you should understand that God is sovereign

53:44

Hmm, and that's one of the things too is that we get lots of messages all the time right now our social media from different example like a lot of documenters are coming out right now and People wanted right now.

53:56

We're the reality is we're living in time. That's uncertain that That's just we don't know what tomorrow is going to hold

54:03

We don't know what the future is, but we know the one that holds the future Hmm, and I think one of the appeals is that people right now in an attempt to have control over what the future holds they want to in a sense sort of be sovereign and All -knowing and have have all the knowledge about what's going on right now people.

54:21

It's almost the certainty as their idol. Hmm, and That's where I think especially like going through these uncharted times

54:28

One you're gonna see and you can I'm just sort of ranting here. Is that but yeah,

54:33

I mean it just you can give me your thoughts in here too, but You're just going to see People who want they almost certainty as their idol and they just they're always a focus on just figure out who's connected to what and all

54:45

These sorts of things but at the end of the day God is sovereign He is the one who's in control and near the end the day

54:53

It's something we should be tried to their best of our ability to be aware of and love our neighbors But it's not something that we should fear

55:00

Perfect love cast out fear and that definitely raised to the UFO phenomena. Give it give me your thoughts, right? I kind of heard you and I think in the background, you know, you've hit you've hit

55:10

You've hit something. That's that's that's really crucial. I think and I'm going I'm going to invoke my my 65 years of life here

55:22

I'll I'll give you just a little encapsulated view In 1997

55:29

I had a heart attack in the middle of a workout In 2001

55:34

I lost my right lung to lung cancer and Last September I was diagnosed with mantle cell lymphoma.

55:43

So I've just finished up Six months of chemotherapy, which was successful so far by the way, praise

55:49

God praise the Lord for that but in that all what

55:54

I have learned that's most critical the Most critical thing is exactly what you said

56:02

God is sovereign. I people people asked me after I was diagnosed with mantle cell lymphoma

56:09

They said it's a very aggressive kind of blood cancer They said well, aren't you upset?

56:15

And I said, I've got no control over this It's all in God's hands.

56:20

I'm just along for the ride and I said I you know, I'm if he wants to call me home,

56:26

I'm ready to go and and You know, I'll do what I can but it's it's up to him.

56:32

I can't I can't worry about it. I can't sweat about it but I think if you look within the

56:38

Christian community if you look at the furious frenzied nature of people so consumed with the end times right now,

56:49

I You know, I lightheartedly say

56:55

I'm a pan millennialist. It's all Yeah Cuz it cuz it's look

57:00

Christ is coming back. He promised that he's coming back I don't know when to me.

57:06

It makes no difference when it's God's timetable not mine And so I'm gonna

57:12

I'm gonna do what he commanded get all of his believers to do go into all the world make disciples teach

57:21

Baptize bring people to Christ pray preach the gospel That's what I'm called to do and everything else is in God's hands.

57:29

He's sovereign. So whatever happens God's in control. So I'm not

57:34

I'm not sweating If we're invaded by aliens next week, God's in control.

57:40

He knows what's going on It's up to it's up to him. So but I think you're right people and I think that's part of the reason for the

57:49

The incredible I guess a frenzied interest in the end times right now

57:54

People want to have some sense of control. Mm -hmm. What's coming?

57:59

What's happening? Oh This happened in Israel. So that must mean This you know, it's the if they can wrap their head

58:10

Some way around something. Yeah They feel like they've got some control

58:16

Yeah, and you know, we're good. None of us are guaranteed the next 10 minutes. Mm -hmm

58:22

Let alone the next 10 years. It's in God's hands. So I'm more than happy to I you know,

58:30

I I Came to I came to faith in Christ when I was 18 years old.

58:36

So You know, I've got I've got a long time Trusting in him and he knows what he's doing even what

58:46

I thought he didn't Yeah, so yeah,

58:54

I know this this is really really good and I think this is um, there's a lot more to unravel as always and Especially now with these recent

59:04

UFO disclosures and as you can see there's so much more to unpack But I think one of the things we're trying to solidify both in all of our series and we're gonna jump into the

59:13

UFO and alien topic again Soon as we always do is that yeah

59:18

There's there's a huge interest in the culture in it in regards to it Like I said

59:23

Stephen Greer We didn't get a chance to kind of talk about Babas are a lot to say that for a future episode when that comes to fruition

59:29

But um people all these different things, you know, this is this is something that's real the cultures looking at it as Christians We have to be able to give a definitive answer to what's going on And I think if we

59:41

Christians who are you and our listeners you say this isn't it? They're kind of indifferent towards it Well, you need to pay attention because this always it always leads to spirituality which leads away people away from the living

59:53

God That's very if that's not important. They need to recheck your priorities. I don't want to say that lovingly so This is really this has been this has been uh, this has been a fun one.

01:00:05

It's been a blast Yes out of this world. Yes Dad jokes awesome. Well, we really appreciate you coming on.

01:00:12

Is there any kind of last thoughts? I mean you kind of really gave I think you said everything you could have said

01:00:17

But if there's anything's let you last things want to say here before we wrap up here You know, I would I would just reiterate again

01:00:25

Examine everything in light of Scripture, you know test test the spirits Take a look at Scripture if somebody tells you something if you hear something

01:00:35

Examine it in light of Scripture if if you're unsure how to do that Reach out to your pastor

01:00:46

Reach out to me I have I I'm happy to I love

01:00:52

Teaching people how to read Scripture and to think through things for themselves

01:01:01

It's it's a valuable thing. So go back to Scripture. Don't don't trust me Go to Scripture.

01:01:07

Don't don't trust anyone here go to Scripture. That's what we have to do

01:01:14

You know, I have all says that Don't jump into being a teacher because there's a there's terrible responsibility there and that's very true

01:01:26

There is and I'm I'm gonna be held accountable someday for everything that I've taught to people regarding Scripture and the truth of God and who he is and so I'm I'm always aware of that and I want to be as as truthful as I can and So I pray for him to lead you and lead