Exposing Fossil Frauds: Dr. Carl Werner Interview

Well, hello, friends, and welcome to the Reform Rookie Podcast. My name is Anthony Uvino, and I'm your Reform Rookie host, bringing you all things

Reformed today. The goal of this channel and this podcast is to take the deep truths of the Reformed tradition and help you see the beauty in them and the joy you'll experience in understanding them better.

Understanding these truths will help you better know the God of the Scriptures and help us to better appreciate His plan of salvation, and to that we say

Semper Ephemanda. Well, today I'm very excited to introduce my guest for today's show, as he is a scientist that confirmed and validated what the

Scriptures teach about creation to be true, and he did this using science. It was actually the scientific process that led him to Christ.

You might say he came into the church through the back door or through a microscope. Science and the use of the scientific method led him to faith in the

Christ of the Scriptures. So with that, my guest is Dr. Carl Werner, and he's the author of Evolution, the

Grand Experiment book series, and the executive producer of Evolution, the Grand Experiment video series, which is played on seven television networks in 70 countries.

He received an undergraduate degree in biology with distinction at the University of Missouri. He graduated summa cum laude.

He received his doctoral degree in medicine at age 23. Formerly, he was an adjunct assistant professor in the

Department of Surgery at St. Louis University. He recently appeared as an expert witness in the movie

The Ark and the Darkness. It's a movie about Noah's Flood that just played in over 1 ,000 theaters countrywide.

Last month, he announced in a press release that he had documented 150 instances of scientific fraud in the field of human evolution.

He uncovered fake fossils and fraudulent displays, which are currently on display at the biggest museums today.

And with that, welcome Dr. Carl Werner to the show. How are you? Good. Thank you for the introduction, and thank you most for having me on your show and be able to talk to your followers.

I'm trying to get this message out, so it's a great opportunity for me to reach others through your ministry.

So thank you. Terrific. Thank you, Dr. Carl. I'm so excited to get into this talk and see what it's about.

So when I usually have a first time visitor to the show, my question is, how did you come to Christ?

And obviously, in the introduction, I did say it was through the scientific method. So could you walk us through that?

Yeah. I appreciate the opportunity because I, as you said, came in the back door to the church.

And I wish I could tell you that I grew up in a Bible believing church that emphasized the truthfulness of the scriptures.

I did not. I wish I had. And I wish I could say that I believed in the

Bible first, and then I hung all my science on the Bible. I just, it's not what happened to me.

This is what happened. I grew up in a Christian home. It was a wonderful home. And I had amazing good parents.

But no one emphasized the inerrancy of the Bible. And no one really talked about evolution versus creation.

And you might say I was vulnerable as I moved off to medical school.

Actually, I started to fade away from God around age 14, 15.

And just like, why am I following all these rules of my parents? I couldn't see it.

I didn't have this great faith. And I didn't have this, you know,

I couldn't explain God just really solidly, you know. And so by the time

I got to medical school, my professors on day one started talking about evolution, that it was true.

They did give me false evidences. I wish now that I could have clarified those with them, but they were disproven evidences.

And I believed evolution. And really, Anthony, my life went into a slide.

It went into a free fall at that point. You know, I was falling away from God long before that.

But you know, now it just, I became just honestly miserable. The more freedom

I had away from God, the more miserable I came. And it was when

I was a second year in medical school. And I was also the second year of college because I was going to this simultaneous school where you do college and medical school at the same time.

I was 19 years old. And a classmate of mine in medical school asked me out for pizza.

And it was just pizza on a Sunday night at Minsky's Pizza Parlor on Main Street in Kansas City.

There was nothing to it. So I thought, but it may have been my appointment with God.

And he asked me three questions that were science -based that I could not answer.

And I was embarrassed. And I felt like I'd been pinned to the mat in a wrestling match.

Now just for your information, I was there on a full ride science scholarship.

That's unusual to have a science scholarship. And in high school, I had done two years of research at the university.

I had my own animal lab. I had been doing experiments on food preservatives.

I was Mr. Science Geek kind of boy. And he asked me these three questions.

And they basically caused my life to do a 180, not overnight.

It took me six months to process this. But his three question was, Carl, you believe in the universe forming naturally, right?

I said, yes. And he said, well, how would the Big Bang create matter since you know, and I did at this time, that the law of thermodynamics, the first law says that matter, like carbon and helium and hydrogen, matter does not form from nothing.

So how could the universe form naturally if matter doesn't form from nothing?

And yeah, it was silence. I just sat there. I had never thought of that.

I never thought of that physics law with the origin of the universe, with my belief in God and never put those three together in a sentence.

And I just sat there dumbfounded. And then his second question, and these three questions lasted about two and a half minutes.

But they changed my life. His next question was, and you might not appreciate these questions.

No, I do. I love these questions. Yes. I appreciate these questions because like, this was a semester that I was in biochemistry.

And his second question was, Carl, you believe that life forms spontaneously through an evolutionary process in a primordial soup.

In other words, before this time, there was only nonliving things on the earth, like chemicals and rocks and things like that, water, you know, air, but no, nothing living like a bacteria.

But then in this primordial soup, the chemicals reacted and life formed.

I said, yes. He says, you know, as well as I do, Carl, that the macromolecules, macro meaning the big molecules, meaning

DNA, RNA, proteins, enzymes, the necessary products for life never ever form naturally.

In other words, you could take a beaker and put chemicals into a beaker and mix them around as much as you want, heat it, boil it, acidify it, alkalinize it, whatever you put, lightning and electricity, whatever you want, you will never form

DNA, RNA, proteins, enzymes. And so how could life form if the macromolecules don't form naturally?

Heavy question. And it was silence. I'm making the point of the silence here.

It was silence on my side of the pizza. I'm pretending like I don't really care.

And this is just, oh, yeah, fine. That's a good question. But inside, I am like, really, OK?

Then his third question is, Carl, you believe in evolution, that a bacteria changed eventually into a hippopotamus, that the same bacteria changed into a palm tree, the same bacteria changed into a broccoli plant, and the same bacteria change into a monkey, ape and a man, right?

He said, the museums right now are full of fossils.

And the number today, I'll update the conversation, is that the museums have one billion fossils.

Not a million, a billion. There's 1 ,000 museums that have approximately a million fossils. And I documented that in my first book.

He said, OK, so you've got these billion fossils, a tremendous fossil record.

You have multiple copies of the dinosaurs. You have multiple copies of the bats. You have multiple, you know, like 1 ,000 fossil bats, 1 ,000 fossil, 100 ,000 fossil dinosaurs was the number, 500 ,000 fish.

Why don't you see the formation of these groups, the formation of fish, the formation of dinosaurs, the formation of corals?

They all suddenly appear. How is it possible that you don't find the transitional forms in the rock layer, the in -between animals, for example, the bacteria changing into a coral?

Why does a coral just suddenly appear? You would think with that rich of fossil record that just odds are you would have all the transitions for all the animals, but there's basically none.

And it was silence again. The silence was deafening. It was like one of those movies where all the sound in the background just kind of gets turned down, you know?

I can barely hear the music and the pizza parlor sounds. And I'm saying, oh, crud.

And I asked myself, have I been duped into believing naturalism?

It had never occurred to me that I've been duped. And at that point and over the next six months,

I said to myself, okay, that's enough for me because these are laws.

That's enough for me to say that God exists, but I don't get it because what do

I do with all the evolution stuff? You know, I've been told that there's eight men. I've been told that the time of the dinosaur is different than today.

I've been told that the rock layer show millions of years. I've been told this and this and this. I have no idea how to put these two separate ideas together.

But something is definitely wrong here. And I'm going to try to figure it out.

Well, I was single at that time and 18 years, the following 18 years,

I just read books on evolution, creation, geology, and things like that.

And I was very unsatisfied, Anthony. I just like my basic questions were not getting answered.

And I was like, I don't know, something's wrong. So in the interim, I got married to my wonderful, wonderful wife,

Debbie Werner. She's a Proverbs 31 woman. And I told her, you know,

I'm very unsatisfied and I'm thinking about, you know, maybe writing a book or maybe making a television show while I go to investigate this.

And she said, well, let's go. You know, I was like, OK, I didn't didn't expect that to be a response. But it was initially the deal was it would be a year or two.

We do it on or on and off times, you know, because as an emergency room physician,

I was granted large swaths of time. I could get off two weeks at a time every every six weeks, you know.

And so we just started traveling. Our first trip was we went out to the dinosaur dig sites and we just started asking questions, trying to get the answer to all my questions.

And that was 1997 and it lasted 27 years.

Yeah. So I'm filming this documentary for national television, which my documentary has reached national television.

I'm filming it and writing the books and they're starting to get broadcast.

But nobody really realizes while I'm filming the evolution scientists that I'm questioning evolution.

It was just honest questions. And I just was honestly trying to get to the bottom of it. And I'd go into these interviews just, you know, not with a lot of ammo in my pocket.

I'm really just want to know the facts. What's the facts of this dig site? And as I slowly accumulated information,

I realized that the entire theory of evolution has collapsed.

I know that sounds so, you know, over the top. But I would like to show you why.

And then the whole point of today's interview that I asked you if you would interview me was that during these 27 years, we had interviewed 43 human evolution scientists.

And during the course of these 27 years of filming all over the world in the biggest dig sites, the biggest museums, the biggest universities of the world.

There were 150 frauds. In the field of human evolution.

Now, fraud, Anthony, is a very strong word, you know, I would not use the word fraud unless I had a lot of proof for that, because it's a libelous term.

You know, if I say you're, you know, your your work is fraudulent, you know, that's libelous. Unless it's true, you know.

And and fraud, the word fraud, if you look it up, it means the purposeful and knowingly misleading the the the person you're talking to are.

And that would in human evolution, that would be by a scientist altering a fossil.

We recorded a lot of those. It would be a scientist knowingly altering a diagram to where it wasn't true.

But he knew it wasn't true, but he published it anyway. It would be reporting facts that he knew or could be documented.

Those are lies. And that's a very high bar. You know, it would be very hard to catch a scientist in fraud.

And yet I have 150 of these that I'm going to share with some of some of them with you. And I'm telling you to your audience, you need to watch this video because in a few minutes,

I'm going to start showing them to you, the fossils, how they were altered, the pictures before and after. And this is the most incredible story you will ever hear.

And this is actually. Again, I sound like I'm a flim flam man, you know, overstating my case, you know, buy my snake oil.

But no, I'm serious. This is this is the biggest science story, maybe for 20, 30, 50 years that there's widespread evolution fraud in the field of human evolution and that I've documented it.

And here is the evidence. And the evidence is not only the fossils that were altered, the diagrams that were altered, but it was also the colleagues of the scientists accusing their evolution scientists, friends of fraud on camera.

Wow. So, you know, we got multiples and we got some deathbed like confessions, you know, the last thing they told us.

Really? Yeah. So it goes on and on and on. In fact, the problem

I have is, you know, how do I make this palatable for your audience and for you that I don't sound like a drone, you know, just going on and on.

OK, and here's fraud number 142, you know. And so and so now

I did that for the first few times on our Zoom meetings that I decided I had to tell the personal story, which

I just did and tell the background. So you realize why this is plausible and why this is how it could have possibly occurred.

And by the way, I did this on my own dime and time. There's no church behind me.

There's no organization behind me. This is my gift or Debbie and my gift to you and the community.

And it's not a get rich quick scream it what it is. It's a get poor quick scheme.

If you want to if you want to if you really want to lose a lot of money, get a film crew and go around the world and travel 300000 miles.

That's how to get poor quickly, you know, and then sell a book and make four bucks. You know, you can never it'll never pay for itself.

So I don't if there's some doubting Thomases out there, please don't think I'm doing this for money. Actually, I don't need any money.

I mean, if you want to give me a million dollars, I'll take it. But, you know, I don't need any money. God has provided all the money.

And I don't know how it's ever happened. I still marvel. How did this happen? How did I pay for this?

You know, and, you know, we're debt free. Everything's paid for, you know, so it's a gift to it's a gift to the believers.

And this is actually a watershed moment for Christianity, because now it's finished.

You know, the theory of evolution has been hanging on to this human evolution. Hey, we got all this evidence. I know that we don't know how dinosaurs came about and we don't know how bats came about, but we got all these ape men.

And so, no, it's over. And this is a time for everyone to get up off their chairs right now and dance around the room with their hands up in the air.

You know, this is a hallelujah moment. This is a joyous moment. And this is the devil is defeated moment.

And this is the theory is evolution is over moment. So now I'm going to go to my slides now and just do this on for slides.

And if I forget to hit the right button, please bring me back to reality here. So this is the first book

I released, and it was about the fossil record. It's called Evolution, the Grand Experiment.

And basically, we went and interviewed scientists about their animal specialty, like this was dinosaurs.

And this chart was from the Chicago Field Museum. And the Field Museum had this diagram, how dinosaurs evolved with a bunch of lines, splitting, splitting, and finally getting to the dinosaurs.

But when we asked the experts, David Weishapel, who is the guru of dinosaur evolution, he gave us these numbers for the number of dinosaurs that had been found.

Large numbers of like 78 Tyrannosaurus fossil dinosaur fossils, not fossils, but different specimens, like different dinosaurs and, excuse me,

Ceratopsians, you know, I don't know, 377 Ceratopsians. But according to them, there were no ancestors to any dinosaur.

They just suddenly appeared. Then I made my second book. And by the way, all these books and all these shows are being filmed simultaneously over these 27 years.

It just took a while, you know. This was Living Fossils. I made a prediction that if creation was true, okay, evolution doesn't look like it happened in the fossil record, but I said, but if creation was true, there should be a prediction, predicted what you should find.

And imagine this, if there was creation in six days, and then there was a flood, you know, a thousand or two thousand years ago, or whatever the number is.

And then it was like the flood mixed up everything that was alive on the planet, kind of like one of those snow globes your grandma had on her desk.

So if you just took all the animals that were created at once, and that according to the Bible, that would be the dinosaurs, that would be the humans, that would be the birds, that would be the lizards, everything that's living today, plus everything that's ever lived, they would all be at the same time alive, more or less, at the time of the flood.

Then it would be shake the snow globe, and everything should be mixed up together. So my prediction was that if creation was true, and if there was a flood, we should find modern animals next to the dinosaurs.

Do you follow that logic? Sure, yeah, that makes sense. Absolutely. Yeah, and this is why it took so long.

We interviewed time after time after time, dinosaur dig site, dinosaur dig site, dinosaur dig site, asking the paleontologists at the dinosaur site, did you find any modern animals next to the dinosaurs?

Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. And I was like, okay, well, maybe creation isn't true.

But then I thought about it. And I thought maybe I'm asking the question wrong. And then

I would say, can we photograph every fossil that you found next to the dinosaurs?

And they would say, sure, they're in this museum next to the dig site, or this museum 40 miles away. Most of the fossils from each dig site are in the closest museum.

So we could photograph them all. And then I realized a lot of these look like modern animals, but they're all renamed.

And then when I started asking them, have you ever found an animal or plant in your dinosaur dig site that looked kind of like a modern plant or animal?

Oh, yeah, we got lots of those. What was going on is they were renaming them. And see, this was very dark, because they were renaming like, for example, this fossil was found at a dinosaur dig site.

It looks just like the modern Redwood plant. If you can see that on screen.

Can you see that on screen? Yes, I do. The plant looks just like the fossil. And this one, this fossil was found next to a dinosaur.

So that would mean that the Redwoods were alive during the dinosaurs. And once we figured this out, that they were renaming them, see, they changed the species and genus names most often of these plants.

Look at the cone here from the Redwood. That's a modern cone. And here's a fossil. It looks like it's a

Redwood cone, but it's found next to a dinosaur. And it went on and on and on. Like, if you look at this, this is a modern

Nautilus shellfish. And then here's a fossil Nautilus that was found next to the dinosaur.

It looks the same, but they changed the species and genus name from Nautilus to Cynoceros.

And then if you go to a different one, if you cut the Nautilus in half and look inside and then take a different dinosaur

Nautilus fossil and cut it in half, you can tell the audience that doesn't have the pictures in front of him.

Do these two look exactly the same, Anthony? They look identical to me. That's amazing.

Identical. And this is when I finally saw these two, I said, no, I'm not just stupid that I can't see why they're renaming this.

They are just changing the name. I'm serious. And like, if you look at the genus names, they change it from Nautilus to Cynoceros.

And what they did is they changed the genus and species name to create the illusion of evolution.

And I don't know if you're aware, but they found ducks next to dinosaurs, loons, they found iguanas, boa constrictors, possums, you know, snakes, lizards, et cetera, et cetera.

But the way they have got away with this is that at the dinosaur museum or at the

Natural History Museum, they never display the duck next to the dinosaur. Have you ever been to a museum and seen a duck sitting on the back of a

T -Rex? No. But it should be there. If they found one, it should be there.

Have you ever been to a museum and seen a boa constrictor wrapped around the bottom leg of a

T -Rex? No. No. Have you ever been to a Natural History Museum, seen a

T -Rex or a Triceratops with a box turtle, you know, your little box turtle you find in the woods, next on the ground or an iguana or a possum?

See, they have created the illusion of evolution and it's very dark that they did this and they do this.

They should have all corrected this when my book came out called Living Fossils. And by the way, there's an amazing video that goes along with it showing me diving on the, it's not amazing because I'm in it, but it's an amazing video because we're diving on the

Great Barrier Reef and I'm swimming with these fish and we're picking up corals that look just like the fossils at the

Carnegie. It's an amazing video and I would encourage you to watch all the videos that go along with the book, but that's enough of that.

Then I started, after those were done, I started my book, Human Evolution Books. This book is volume three of the series and it's called

Untold Stories of Human Evolution. It just came out and basically this covers the five apemen that were made out of ordinary mammals.

And so these apemen, they would like you just to not even ask about because like this one, the

Libyan hominid was made out of a dolphin rib. Yes, you heard that correctly. A dolphin rib was misinterpreted as a collarbone of an apeman and it wasn't just any apeman.

This was an upright walking apeman and this was in the American Museum of Natural History's magazine called

Natural History. And this one, Orcyman, was made out of a donkey skull and this one called

Australopithecus prometheus, it was made out of a cat like a leopard, a dog like family, like a canid, like a wolf kind of or jackal.

It was made out of the toe bones of horses that they thought were the collarbones of this apeman.

And then there's the Nebraska man was made out of a pig too. So the first book was just the 43 scientists that promoted apemen that were actually made out of mammals, like ordinary mammals, like non -primate mammals, like how stupid could you be kind of a thing.

Quick question, Dr. Carl, if I could. So did you actually get a chance to inspect the dolphin's rib?

How did you come to know that it was a dolphin rib? Well, some of these are dicey and some of them are not.

This dolphin rib was dicey because we interviewed the scientist who made the mistake.

But they're not keen on making these fossils available. But this story came out because this dolphin rib story came out because the scientist, his name is

Dr. Noel Boas. He was from, I think, one of the New York City universities.

He was a professor there. He crossed swords with Dr. Johansson and he said, my apeman is better than your apeman.

You know, the scientists who found Lucy and Johansson and his friend, Dr. Tim White got mad at him and said, we're going to burn you and we're going to take down your apeman.

You're saying Lucy's not a good apeman. Well, we're going to look at your apeman, the Libyan hominid. And this,

I think, came out in 1983 or something. And they were the scientists, his colleagues, in other words, identified that it was a dolphin rib and they did it in the journal articles.

But it's a story. You don't have to see the fossil because the evolution scientist is making the case in their journal articles.

And it is spectacular that you could mistake a dolphin rib, which is

C -shaped, as a collarbone, which is S -shaped. And if you go through my book, you'll see how they did that.

And it's pretty fantastic. But the bigger point is that these 43 scientists had university professorships.

They found museums. They wrote hundreds of books. And yet they couldn't even identify the correct group of mammals.

Should only be primates. OK, so then I wrote my fourth and basically last book.

And again, this book was just released and it's called Nine Categories of Overturned Apeman. I'm sorry

I haven't got to the fraud yet, but there's a reason for this. You've got to understand the story. Oh, this is fine. Yeah, this story that I'm going to tell you now is how dumb is

Dr. Carl Werner? This is a story entitled How Dumb is Dr. Werner? And I'll tell you what it is, is that I got to the end of my writing these two books.

This book is called Nine Categories of Overturned Apeman. And basically,

I said, I want to look at the overturned apeman, not just the ones made out of mammals, but the others.

And there's been 232 apeman species that have been identified and then overturned.

And that's a lot of apeman. And I was like, what were they? What did they turn out to be?

And they were so many of these things. I had to group them just to kind of make sense of it. And so I basically grouped the 232 apeman species that had been overturned into nine different categories, like one category.

They turned out to be just monkey bones. Those were Dr. Dart's and Dr. Gebert's apeman.

One category turned out to be just ordinary ape bones, not modern apes. But they were just ordinary apes that they were interpreted as apeman.

One group was ordinary, recently buried human bones, you know, like Aunt Jane, who died 15 years ago, and Uncle Billy, who died, you know, 40 years ago, and Great Grandma Smith.

You know, these people were buried. And then evolution scientists came upon their fossils and named them as apeman.

And this would be the Homo capensis in South Africa. This would be Homo cinnamento, Homo capenclinatus,

Homo pampeus in Argentina. There was five of these. And then another group was apeman that were made out of reptiles.

It was only one of those. It was a crocodile bone. Another one was apeman made out of humans that were buried during the

Ice Age with the reindeer and muskox and things like that in Europe.

But they were just humans. But they were buried with Ice Age animals. And they're not apeman.

They're just humans. OK, right. And so anyway, I went through that and I got done.

I've been I'm done. I'm 27 years of this. I'm writing these books. I'm done. And there have been delay after delay after delay.

And then finally, as I'm writing the back cover, and that's why I'm showing the back cover, I said, what should I put on the back cover to kind of summarize this?

And I wrote this sentence. I'm just going to paraphrase what I wrote at the time. I said during the course of these 43 interviews or whatever the number is with the evolution scientists, there were many instances of fraud that were revealed by the scientists or that became apparent during the our 27 years of filming, because we also got to get into the museums and film the original fossils in the museum vaults because we were filming for a national broadcast on human evolution.

That's how we got access. And so I said, but I said when

I finished that sentence in my mind, I said, that's a very weak sentence to put on the back of a book. There were several instances of fraud.

And this is to show you how dumb I am. I've been at this for 20 at this point, 25 years, 24 years.

And I'm thinking myself, you need to count up how many frauds you were you interviewed about and you saw.

And so I started adding them up. I was like, OK, I was one by him was five by that scientist.

There was three by that scientist. American Museum had two. And I started counting them and counting them and counting them and writing down.

And I was like, this is how you tell, by the way, Anthony, that this is that you found something when it jumps off the page at you and slaps you in the face.

He's like, you dummy. Haven't you noticed this? All these all this pattern of evidence and the pattern of evidence is that there's 150 frauds in this field.

And that is the story. And I missed it. So after finishing the two books on just general human evolution,

I thought I got to now make add four more shows to the miniseries in our evolution, a grand experiment miniseries.

And I need to do four more shows and just enumerating these 150 frauds.

So show I'm going to say I might get the numbers wrong, but you'll get the idea. Show five was. Human evolution frauds committed by scientists working in in America are the

Americas. And it takes 50 minutes to go through them. And the six six, the six episode is human evolution fraud carried out by scientists working in Africa.

That would be like the frauds by Leakey, Robert Broom, Raymond Dart, et cetera, et cetera.

Again, it takes nearly an hour of video. The next show is human evolution frauds carried out by scientists working in Europe, Europe.

And, you know, there they are. Spain and France and another one in France and Belgium, et cetera, et cetera, built down.

And then the last one is the fossil to my which I'm going to discuss here as my first eight man example fraud.

So it's like I missed the whole point of this story. And this is kind of a God thing.

It's like you you're going to work and I'm going to give you the real answer at the end here.

And it had to be at the end because I had to get all these facts in order, had to have all the pictures in order, had to have all the stories.

Once I had them all, I'm like, I am ready to go, folks. And this is a time of great joy.

And I would like to after you take a breath here and see if you have a question.

Otherwise, I want to start showing you now these crazy, blatant, repetitive frauds by the evolution scientists.

And this is going to be a piece of art. That's all I can say. Yeah, sure.

So one quick question I have and then we can go right into it because I'm real curious to see them myself. Have you spoken to any of the scientists who have perpetrated these frauds and questioned them?

And have any said, yeah, you know, I regret doing it or are they just all in denial?

It's it's it's a mixed bag because some of the accusations of the fossils that are on display currently, those scientists are dead.

They were accused by the scientists that are living today, kind of a look back.

And that is also another pattern that the evolution scientists tend not to pronounce that their colleagues are doing the frauds until after they die.

Once they die and they lose all their political capital to do retribution on them, their colleagues then come out and say, hey, that was a fraud.

That was wrong. This is wrong. But they never tell you while we're being spoon fed this crud on Discovery Channel.

So I had a couple scientists, Richard Leakey, give a kind of a near it was he he told me something spectacular just two months before he died.

And then Yves Copin, the Lucy co -director, he told me something spectacular before he died.

And then we had another one. Dr. Raymond Dart told his colleague who told us on camera what he said, a kind of a near death confession right before he died.

And so, no, this is not me confronting the scientists that did it.

It's me talking to the scientists who are their colleagues and them calling them out on the frauds.

Yeah, sure. You ready to go? Yeah, absolutely. This is going to be very fun.

The first one is on display currently. At all the natural history museums like the

American Museum in New York would have this museum in Paris, a national museum there, Natural History Museum in London, Argentina, et cetera, et cetera.

This is called and you never have heard of it because it's not like Lucy, not well known among the creation community yet, but it is their big one.

It's like the great one. It's called TUMAI, T -O -U -M -A -I,

TUMAI, Tumai, as you can see, was on the cover of Time magazine in 2002 and Nature, indicating this is the big kahuna that we've been waiting for, the earliest upright walking ape man.

But the scientist that's promoting it infuriated his colleague who actually was there when it was found.

And the colleague, Dr. Alan Bouvalan, told me the correct story and showed me that this was fraud.

This thing is fraud times four. Okay, so here's the fossil and I just now

I want you to pay attention to his four main points that he either told us or wrote in the journal articles are mostly both.

Here's his four points. Number one, the spinal cord hole on the bottom of the skull is more towards the center like a human skull.

Therefore, it walked upright. So it upright walking ape man because of the hole for the spinal cord.

You know, the hole on the spinal cord real quick is it's right here. You see that? Yeah, so because in humans, it's more in the center, but in apes, it's more towards the back.

And his second point was when it was found, it was buried in rock.

And the way we know it's the oldest ape man is because we then dated the rock, which is circular reasoning, but dated the rock and the rock turned out to be 7 million years old.

That was his second point. And the third point was that there were no other bones found next to this animal.

It was just a skull. There was no leg bones. There's no arm bones. And yet, all of this is fraud.

Now, let me show you why. Dr. Brunais, who's promoting this currently, and he is immediately in fame, you know, he's being interviewed by Time Magazine and Nature and all this stuff.

He wasn't even in Chad, North Africa, when this was found. His partner was

Dr. Bouvalon, who he alienated. And Dr.

Bouvalon gave me the pictures from the day the skull was found. This is a skull of Tumai, and it's laying on the sand.

And this was taken just maybe two hours after it's all found. They went back to get the cameras.

They couldn't believe it. They found this primate skull. And you'll notice something. It is not in a rock layer.

Oh, yeah. It's just laying on top of the sand. And he, Dr. Dr. Brunais told us and wrote in his journal articles that it had to be dug out of the rock so that, you know, so they could remove it.

And it's just laying on top of the sand. See, in the Jirob Desert in Chad, where this fossil and there's fossils all over just laying on top of the sand.

You just pick them up. You just pick them up, look at them, throw them back down if you're not interesting of the wrong kind of animal you're looking for.

And so it was a lie that he dug it out of the rock. It was a lie that they could date the rock layer. That's the first two lies.

And then look at this picture. What is this bone right here? It's about a femur.

It's a femur. Yeah. How did you know that? Yeah, that's a femur. I'm surprised you could identify it.

But that is correct. It was a femur. And Dr. Brunais hid the fact that there was a femur found for 17 years.

Wow. And there's a reason he did, because it was the femur looks like a chimp femur. I'm going to show you that in a bit here.

And if he had told everybody he had found a femur next to the skull, and then they said, oh, well, that looks like a chimp femur.

They wouldn't think this was an ape man, because chimpanzees walk on all fours. They don't walk upright.

His whole point was this creature walked upright like a human being. So we took this femur, the photographs that were published of it in the journal article.

And this is that femur. But it's photographed four different ways. The front view, the back view, the outside view, and the inside view.

And so to match that, I took a picture of a modern femur of a chimpanzee, a modern chimpanzee.

And the same views, the front view of the femur, chimp femur, the back view of the chimp femur, the side view and the outside view, inside and outside view.

These are the exact same views of this. And watch what happens. And this is really good in the video.

Everybody needs to watch this video. It's amazing. When you put the femur fossil over the chimp, look what happens.

Wow, it is a match to me. It's a perfect match.

And that's why he kept, I think that would be why he would keep it hidden and secret and lie about it.

I mean, he specifically said, I think it was in 2002 or 2003, in his journal article that was written in French.

He said, there were no extremity bones found next to the skull.

And yet this one is a foot and a half away and it looks like a chimp. So that's another lie. And then the last lie is his hole at the bottom of the skull, the foramen magnum hole.

He actually moved it. And he's not the first scientist to move a foramen magnum.

The scientists who discuss, let me silence his phone. Sorry about that.

That's okay. A previous scientist, you know, 120 years earlier in Paris, did this with the first Neanderthal skeleton.

His name is Marcel. He moved the foramen magnum and then said it was an ape man. And so this guy is going to do the same thing.

And so that's why I was tipped off on this. First of all, it's odd that when we flew to Paris to interview him, and he didn't know anything was wrong with who

I, that I was questioning evolution. He would not let me photograph the fossils on his desk or the fossil copies, even just the copies.

I was like, we're doing a national interview with you about your fossil and you won't let me photograph your skull.

That's very odd. In fact, it raised my, not only my ire, but it also raised my suspicion that there's something goofy here.

And then the, what it is, is he found the skull, he

CAT scanned it. Then he realized it was all deformed. And then he took the

CAT scan pictures and then he moved bones around. And during that process, he moved the foramen magnum.

And I'm going to show you how he did it. But the most spectacular thing is, is that in his final version, there's bones missing.

And that's very important because that didn't show up on his initial CAT scan. That's very important because you need to have missing bones so you can move things around.

And that's what they did with Neanderthal 120 years earlier. Now watch this. Here is how you move a foramen magnum.

Here's a picture of a gorilla skull. And here's a picture of a human skull. The gorilla skull, the foramen magnum, the hole for the spinal cord is in the back, or more towards the back.

In a human, it's more towards the center. And that's because the head is balanced on the top of the head. And Tumai, when they found him, this is what it looked like when they found him.

It was all distorted. You can see the foramen magnum is all distorted there. It's not round.

And look at here, the teeth, instead of lining up with out here, you know, to the side, like the human did, the teeth are pointing at the foramen magnum, which means the whole thing is twisted and cockeyed, okay?

So what he did was this bone that I marked here in red, this bone marked here in red is this bone right here.

It's part of the occiput, but it's in front of the foramen magnum right there. And he had two choices when he had finished with this

CAT scan. He could move this end down and move this out, and then it would be an ape.

Or he can move this end and move it up, and it would be a human or an ape man.

And he chose to move this up instead of moving this down. And then he claimed, you know, without telling anybody, and by the way, he won't share his

CAT scans, not only with me, but his colleagues. Colleague after colleague has come to visit him. He won't let them see the fossils.

He won't let them see the photos of the fossils. He won't let them see the CAT scans. He won't let them verify the work.

He hid the femur. He is a slimy little dog, I'm telling you. And that's how that whole thing got born.

It was one fraud after another fraud after another fraud. It was four frauds in all for Dr. Michel Brunet from Paris for his famous ape man, the most famous ape man currently in all museums,

Tumai. So how's that for four frauds, but we still have 146 to go?

Yeah, this is breaking my heart because you would think people in the scientific community would call him out considering that they're not able to examine the evidence themselves.

I mean, what kind of issue is this that no one else is allowed to see the actual evidence and come to conclusions on their own?

I thought the scientific process was supposed to be, you know, repeated over and over and over again, and now they're not letting anyone else see it.

It's so obvious it's not funny. And it is obvious it's not funny. And the reason is that there's political retribution within the field.

You know, that field only has about 300 or 400 really important scientists in it. And if one scientist calls out another scientist and says your ape man's a problem and really goes at his jugular vein, you know, in the

New York Times, that scientist that's accusing him will be destroyed. And that happened with the dolphin rib guy when he went after Johansson.

And they destroyed him for calling out Lucy as a problematic fossil.

So they are not honest with the public. They might be making little, you know, innuendos in their articles are very subtle things, but not on the front page of the

New York Times saying this fossil is very problematic. It's all quiet. They don't want to cause a wave.

They don't want to be have their articles or their funding cancelled. So they just shut up and say it's a problem.

But, you know, you and I wouldn't know it unless there's some crazy, you know, medical student doctor who formed a film company, went around and got access to everything.

You and I would not have ever heard of this. Yeah. Unless we get Dr. Carl on the case.

That's right. In which case we will hear about it. I'm like a badger, Anthony.

I get my teeth in the animal and I just can't let it go. I just keep squeezing harder. I'm from New York.

I know how to do that. I have all these New York friends since I started this, and it's really been fun to meet them all.

I'll tell you what. Amen. Wow. Well, I would like to at least do two or three more if you don't mind.

Please. Yeah. Dr. Carl, take your time. Do it. You know, keep going through. This is very interesting. Because I don't have many social skills,

Anthony. Sometimes I'll just keep talking and then my wife will give me one of the elbows in the side, like, shut up and start listening.

Dr. Carl, you just haven't evolved to that level yet. You will. Don't worry. Give it a couple million years. You'll get there.

So you'll need to be my wife and say, shut up. Okay. We've had enough of your frauds.

We've seen 15, so we'll stop here. I want to show you the next 10 frauds, and it's from this diagram.

You will recognize this diagram. Everybody in the audience will recognize this diagram.

It was printed in 1965 in the Time -Life book, Early Man. And it shows one small ape evolving into 15 ape -man species into a modern human.

And the ape is getting taller and taller and standing more upright, more upright. And finally, he gets to the modern man.

And we interviewed the scientist who made this chart for Time -Life book. His name was

F. Clark Howell. Now, he died after we interviewed him. By the way, our process was so slow.

We had about 12 people die on us. But that just speaks to my slow work, you know. But anyway, F. Clark Howell died.

But before he died, we got the chance to interview him. And then we got to interview his colleagues. And we got to interview his students.

And it turns out that Clark Howell committed 10 acts of frauds in this one chart.

And, you know, people don't understand what I mean by the word fraud. I'm going to redefine it one more time so nobody thinks.

When I'm saying fraud, I'm not saying the fossil doesn't exist. I'm saying the scientist is knowingly and misleading the audience or his customer or whatever into something that he knows is wrong.

That's fraud. It's knowingly misleading. It's not that the fossil is fake or that it's not a real bone.

It's he's knowingly doing this. Okay. So most people, when they see this chart, you ask them, what is what's going on here?

They'd say, well, this small little ape kept standing up. And he got bigger and bigger and bigger.

And finally, he had some tools. And then there he is, modern man. And you would say to them, where are the ape men?

Well, the first animal is an ape. And the last man is a modern man. So the ape men are the animals in between.

And this chart, I don't show it here because I cut it out of the book.

But on the book, in the book, the chart is labeled on the road to Homo sapiens.

Okay. It's on the road to Homo sapiens. So in other words, these animals are on the road to Homo sapiens.

They are human ancestors. Okay. But when he made this chart, and we learned this through his writings, the interviews that we did, and the book itself, is that he knew that this first animal,

Pleopithecus, was like a modern gibbon and did not evolve into humans. It was not on the road to Homo sapiens.

He also knew the second one, Proconsul, was a chimpanzee -like animal. It was an ape and was not an ancestral human.

So that would be fraud too. The third one, Dryopithecus, was a chimpanzee -like ape.

It was extinct, but it was not an ancestor to humans, according to Dr.

Howell, who made the chart. But he puts it on the chart anyway. Oreopithecus, he knew, was an ape.

It was not ancestral to humans, but he puts it on the road to Homo sapiens chart.

And he did that also for this one here, Paranthropus. He knew this was a gorilla -like, ape -like creature.

And he knew it was not ancestor to humans and was not on the road to Homo sapiens. And yet he put it in the chart.

So there's five frauds there. And then you scoot over to the right. The last five animals before the modern man, he knew were

Homo sapiens. See, you can't put six in a chart of 15 animals.

You can't put six Homo sapiens in a row and say, look, there's human evolution. And it can't be on the road to Homo sapiens.

If the chart is called the road to Homo sapiens, you only get one Homo sapiens at the end. Right. But it's

Homo sapiens, Homo sapiens, Homo sapiens, Homo sapiens,

Homo sapiens. That's what he knew when he made the chart. And so this was not a chart on the road to Homo sapiens.

10 of the 14 animals were fraud. Plus, these are the frauds of Clark Howell. There's other frauds here, but that's not the point

I'm making. I'm saying the guy who made this chart knew it was wrong. And it was immensely influential in convincing people that evolution scientists had the ape man.

It's a travesty. This chart is a travesty. More than you think about this chart, it's very unnerving.

Yeah, it actually looks like the second half of the chart with all the Homo sapiens actually reflects the scriptural teaching that we reproduce after our own kind.

So after the sixth Homo sapiens, you're going to get another Homo sapiens, because the Homo sapiens can only produce other

Homo sapiens. That's right. That's right. And that's not evolution. No, that's biblical creation.

That's biblical creation. So that is crazy. I would like to do at least one more and maybe two more scientists.

So we did Tumai. That was in Africa. We just did F. Clark Howell's chart that was in Time Life.

There was 10 frauds there. This next one is called Homo habilis. Homo habilis.

Anybody that's gone through college science has heard about it. It's supposed to be... And by the way, it's on display at museums currently.

And this creature is supposed to be halfway between an ape -sized creature, which would be about three and a half, four feet tall with a brain around 500 cc, and a human, you know, five and a half feet tall with a thousand cc brain.

He's supposed to be halfway between there. The brain of Homo habilis then would be... If it's an intermediate creature, if it's an ape man, it would have a brain of around six to 700 cc.

And it would be about four and a half feet tall. It turns out this creature was only 500 cc.

He enlarged the brain repeatedly on multiple specimens, and he created an ape man out of what turns out to be

Australopithecus, not an ape man. And I want to show you how he did it and why he did it.

His first fossil that was found... This is... The scientist's name is

Phillip Tobias, and he's from the University of Whitchwater, San... And he worked up in Olduvai Gorge with Louis Leakey and another scientist by the name of Napier, N -A -P -I -E -R.

And Louis Leakey and Mary Leakey found this skull. It's called OH7.

And this is the one they said is the first or the type specimen for Homo habilis.

It's the one that all scientists will look at and judge if their fossils that they find later is a

Homo habilis or not. But he enlarged this. He added bones to the skull that were not part of the skull.

And not to sound prideful, but I was the one that figured this out. So this picture in black and white is what

Dr. Tobias placed in his scientific monograph in the 1990s of what the fossil looks like.

It's a black and white photograph. And you look at it the first time and there's no letters on it by him. I've added those letters on it.

There's really nothing seems strange or unusual about it. But Debbie and I then flew to Tanzania and we met with the former

National Director of the National Museum of Tanzania where this fossil is stored. And we told him we'd like to photograph all the fossils that they found in Olduvai Gorge.

And so he pulled this one out. It's called OH7. It's the type specimen for Homo habilis.

And I took a picture of it. Now, I didn't know that I was going to be comparing it to this black and white. So it's at a slightly different angle.

You can see it just not. But it's the same fossil. Okay. But it's just the camera lens is a little bit more north and south and whatever, you know.

And then when I got home and I put this photograph next to his picture, same fossil.

It's like these don't even look the same. There's something crazy wrong here with this picture. And you can see that in his fossil, there's a big area of bone called

B. And on mine, there is no B. A big piece is just missing.

Like, where is, what is B? And I was like, I couldn't explain it.

Then I started scrutinizing his photograph. It's like, this is all plaster. You see that, Anthony?

It's all kind of, it's not bone. So he puts, you wouldn't know it because it's a black and white picture.

So he puts plaster, a large piece of plaster to increase the size of the skull.

So he can say that it's a large -brained ape man. He's enlarging the skull.

And this isn't the first time. He's going to do this multiple times and I'm going to show you that in a bit. And so, by the way, you don't put plaster and enlarge the type specimen.

The type specimen is what everybody's going to judge it for just based on its own merits. You don't enlarge it, okay?

You don't put plaster on it and say, I think the bone went out further here. Then when we looked at it, it was like, look at this bone, this part of the skull here on OH7, where I have marked it

A. You don't notice it in the black and white, it looks fine. But on mine, it looks a little funny. It doesn't quite look like the same.

And you flip this skull over and there it is. That's part A there. And look, it looks nothing like the rest of the skull.

Wow. You see that? Yes. A looks like a mismatch. And yet it's connected with a straight line.

Now, straight lines are suspicious when you're putting together puzzles because any puzzle piece that's straight can go to another straight piece.

And if it was a good puzzle -like fit that was perfect, you'd say, well, it just maybe it got discolored because it was out in the sun or something like that.

But no, it's attached by a straight line. And then the straight line wasn't long enough, so I had to put plaster in there too.

And I thought that I can't believe it.

So I'm going to read this. These monographs are so boring. They're the most boring thing you could read.

This is a 400 -page monograph about these fossils. I mean, really, who wants to sit around and read them?

But I did it for you. I took one for the team. And lo and behold, he makes an unusual statement in the monograph.

He said that the right skull piece, which is the type specimen, was, quote, pieced together from a number of fragments found separately.

In other words, he might have found the skull here, but he found that other part 30 yards away and it could have been from a different animal.

Well, that is a very, very suspicious fossil. And I say it's fraudulent. Even if you accept the other piece, the plaster on there is fraud.

And this is a type specimen. No one called him out on it. And this was the first of three frauds.

I'm going to show you the other two real quickly so I don't lose you here as my audience. His second fraud was this one.

And this one is even more spectacular because we got to interview his colleague about it.

So the story is in 1976, Dr. Tobias's team found these,

I think it's like 14 fragments of bone. And Dr. Tobias thought he had found another

Homo habilis. OK, now he wants it to be a big brained ape man. OK, that's the point.

And because he's the guy that's promoting it and he named it. So he wants it to be a Homo habilis.

And he asked his colleague, Dr. Ron Clark, pay attention to that name.

Dr. Clark to assemble the bones, because Dr. Clark was the man who assembled skulls.

He was a really good figure out where the fragments go, where they attach to each other. And he assembled these 14 fragments into this skull here.

You see that, Anthony? Yeah, he's your point. OK, now this skull here, it's the front view, but there's two more views over over here.

This is the bottom view of the same skull. And this is a side view of the same skull. OK, Dr.

Clark finishes this. Putting it together in 1984, and he brings it back to Dr.

Tobias, who fraudulently did the other bone of Homo habilis, OH7, and says, well,

I got your skull done. Here it is, and hands this to him. Now, how do I know this, all this detail?

Because we interviewed Ron Clark about this, and he's about ready to accuse his colleague of fraud on camera here.

So on camera, Dr. Clark is describing this whole process.

Of what happened. Now, Tobias is dead now, so he can just pretty much shoot him down.

He gave it to Tobias, and Tobias told Clark, according to Clark, this skull is too small.

This is supposed to be a large brain ape man. And he says, do you think you could take it apart and make it bigger?

And Ron Clark is like dumbfounded on camera in this interview. And he said, take it apart.

You can't just take it apart because you want to make it bigger. These bones were put together because they matched either the midline or a vein going across the bone edge or something.

Things that you could see that this piece goes with this piece, and you just can't separate them because you want a bigger ape man.

And he said, well, okay. And that was the end of the discussion. But Dr. Tobias was not deterred.

He then asked his colleague, Dr. Darren Curnow, who was basically a graduate student there for a couple years, just working under Dr.

Tobias. And Tobias goes to Dr. Curnow, who had not a lot of experience of assembling skulls.

And he says, Dr. Curnow, do you think you could take this skull that Dr. Clark assembled, take it apart, and see if you can rework it and make it bigger?

And that's what Dr. Curnow did. Now, here's the before. This is Dr. Clark's skull. And here's

Dr. Curnow's skull. You can see how it went from this size to this size. And these pictures are perfectly proportioned because I took these two in the same frame.

This is the same photograph. So there's no enlargement. This is the photo. And this is a side view.

He made it from this to much longer. And he enlarged it up to, it went from 500 cc's up to like 700 cc's.

And we did it. We did find an ape man. It's called Homo habilis.

And this one is STW53, just about as large as the other fake one, OH7. And then if that wasn't enough, he did it again.

And here's another one, OH16. He had this skull. It was assembled this way.

And you can see the pieces are all matching and touching. And he blew it up with plaster and spread it out and made it a large brain ape man.

Dr. Clark, I'm no scientist, but I went to second grade. I could tell when one skull is bigger than the other.

And it's ridiculous. And that's three in a row from one scientist, you know.

And he also fraudulently created a brain size chart. I'm not going to get into it, but he changed the size of human brains so that it looked like it was stepwise progression of apes to Homo habilis to Homo erectus to human brain.

He altered the numbers on that, which was his fourth fraud. It's extraordinary.

Extraordinary. Gosh, gosh, this is unbelievable when you see it like right there with the pictures and you see all the extra plaster that shouldn't be there and how on the right hand side, you see how it all fits together perfectly.

It's just like you said, this is fraud. This isn't an intentional idea to fool somebody.

Yeah, to create an ape man out of where there was no ape man. Yeah. Yeah.

Unbelievable. Yeah. So Dr. Carl, are all these in your book or books?

The best place to see these frauds and the easiest just for the consumer is the video series.

And it's the last four episodes of our video. And that would be episode five, six, seven, and eight in the eight part mini series.

Okay. And you can order these videos off of our website, thegrandexperiment .com.

Okay. Or a simpler way is you could watch them tonight by just following the links and do video on demand.

And I think it costs four bucks to rent a show. We really just price these just so they could reach people.

And there is where the 150 frauds are laid out.

Number one, number two, number three, number four. And you can see all 150.

And it's a much smoother than me doing this as a Zoom call with pictures, because you got the scientists, you got the video, it's really easy to follow.

And I think we've done now maybe, I don't know, 15 frauds or 18 frauds so far, and we still have 132 frauds.

And I'm not kidding you, the next frauds are even more spectacular.

These aren't just the best. They are even more spectacular. Lying and near death bed confessions and scientists,

Dr. Leakey admitting that he had put the skull together wrong. And it's just extraordinary.

Hey, Dr. Carl, have you heard of that document called the Descent from Darwinism? I have not, but I live under a rock,

Anthony. And there's moss growing on my north side of my head because I don't get out much because I've been working like a dog, producing videos and writing books.

So no, I don't know it, but it doesn't mean that it's not important. Yeah, no, there's well over a thousand scientists who have signed the

Descent from Darwinism statement, because more and more evidence is coming out that does not comport or actually refutes what

Darwinism proposes. So more and more scientists are getting on board and saying, we can't get to where Darwinism wants to take us.

So I'll put a link up to the Descent from Darwinism in the video, and I'll also get the link to where we can buy your video series or watch them online.

I'll also put those in the box, the comment section, so that people can click on them and go right there and watch exactly what you're talking about.

Yes. It's important. It's very important. And I just would like to just take a moment and say that your children, not yours,

Anthony, in particular, just everybody that's listening, your children are going to get eaten alive in high school and college on this topic of evolution, or grade school, if they're in the public school system, or even a

Christian school sometimes teaches evolution. If you don't lead the way for your kids, and that means you, the listener, the believer, grabbing this material, learning it, and then teaching it to your children, making your children the disciples, your disciples, they're going to get eaten alive, and you're going to wonder, what did

I do wrong? If you can't convince them early on that there's all these problems with naturalism, they're naturally going to think, when they're tempted, and these kids are all tempted with what they see on social media, they're going to get swallowed up.

So if you have kids in homeschool, take the four books that we have as a four -semester creation curriculum.

I guarantee you, you do this, these kids will be so strong, and they'll be able to stand up to any professor if they go through the four semesters.

It's an easy course. It's not like it's Calculus 101. It's just logical stuff, and you can start them as early as seventh grade or as late as college, but you have to take the next step.

I've done my step, okay? Now it's your listener's step. If you're a homeschool mom, you need to do the four semesters or any curriculum that has creation, and if you're a teacher or administrator or a church leader and you have a school, you need to implement these four semesters, and you will see these kids turn their lives around.

It's not like following Jesus, but just imagine what happened to me. Three questions, boom,

I became a Christian. Just imagine what these kids will be like when they get this over and over.

This week, we're going to cover this. So I really think it's important for everybody to bone up, and I think everybody should put on their best shoes for the dance tonight because we're going to celebrate that the theory of evolution and human evolution has finally been disproven, and yeah, it's a time, but it's not a time to sit on your laurels.

Everybody has to do their part, and get this to the kids.

Otherwise, we're sunk, you know? Yeah, I agree with you 100%. I mean, this is part of our apologetics to make a defense of the faith, and when there's a lie put out against this, against the creation story, especially when you see all the hoaxes and the fraud that's involved with it, how can we not point this out?

And it's not too hard. I mean, not to negate all the work that you've done over all those years, but when you look at a skull like that, and then you see one with plaster and one without plaster, and say,

I mean, you don't need to, you know, you don't need a PhD to figure out one of these things is not like the other, and they're supposed to be the same thing.

Exactly, exactly. And many of the other ape men that you've heard of were actually not mistakes, but they were frauds too, like Nebraska Man wasn't just a mistake.

That was a fraud, and I didn't share that with you today, and Lucy, a lot of people say that was a mistake.

No, that was three frauds that Dr. Johansson did. So there's just much more material here, and you're going to enjoy it.

You're going to have weeks of enjoying watching these shows, and I would encourage you to watch them as a family because they're clean.

There's nothing, you know, dirty in them. You know, a little kid could watch them with you, you know.

And it'll spur on discussion. I mean, these are the things that we need to do. We need to actually question all the evidence that comes before us and follow the facts where they lead.

I mean, that's the bottom line. That is the bottom line, and we have been sitting on our laurels accepting that they would not show us the evidence.

See, we always thought they're not showing us the evidence, you know, the real bones because, oh, those are very special and we're not

PhDs. And now I don't trust anything unless I can actually see the fossils and see the originals.

And I'm telling you that the most recent eight men like Sadiba, Naladi, you know,

Orion, Tushadenses, whatever. These are all kept from other scientists.

I couldn't see these fossils because they're the latest ones. They are hiding the evidence for the latest ones until the scientist dies.

So, yeah, we should not have ever allowed any of this without just demanding to see every piece of evidence that supported it, you know.

So when we go to a museum, it's not really a history that we're looking at.

We're really looking at a crime scene. Yes, you are. Yes, you are. I mean, the fraud perpetrated on us as if we're not going to know.

That's right. And I would, one more plug here is anybody lives near a natural history museum and you would like to lead fraud tours for your homeschool group, your friends, your

Boy Scout troop or whatever, get in contact with me because we have a package for you, which is pictures of the fraud, you know, so you go up to one fossil like, you know,

Tumai and you pull out the picture of the Tumai skull and then you just tell them this is what was fraudulent about this.

And then you pull out your iPad and we have a video clip like a minute or two from our shows that discusses

Tumai. And then you say, OK, that's why it was a fraud. Let's go over to this next one. You don't have to really know a lot.

You just got to want to lead a group and you can lead it without a lot of knowledge. And, you know, we have the resources for you to be a museum tour guide.

And I think every museum should be being inundated with the tour guides that are

Christians, you know. Just make sure before we after I end the show that you and I talk for a bit and we'll get the links to all those things.

And I'll put those into the comments section. So anybody who wants that information can just click, go right to it, start learning, start teaching their kids, watch the shows with them.

I mean, this will be a great time to sow into your children and gain knowledge at the same time.

I agree, it would be just fantastic if everybody took an action and then, by the way,

I need you all to spread the word because we haven't had a national media traction yet on this story, which should be national news.

So we're expecting, you know, that they're going to maybe not want to publish the stories about it. So we need people to get on to social media and start shouting from the rooftops about this, you know, sharing these links of this video or any other video that we've done recently.

For sure, for sure. Well, with that, Dr. Carl, I'm going to let you go. I know you've taken a lot of time with me and I very much appreciate it.

I know you're a busy guy. So I'll close out the show. And like I said, we'll stick on for a couple of minutes and talk about where to get those links.

So friends, once again, thank you for watching the show and thank you to Dr. Carl for doing what he's doing.

What a blessing he is to the body of Christ. So we just want to encourage you to take a look at these materials because this is going to help you defend the faith and refute the lies that would try to contradict it.

If you could also tune into our channel, like and subscribe. We have over 20 playlists that help teach you with regards to Christian theology,

Reformed theology, Reformed Baptist distinctives, things on the doctrines of grace. We also have things on apologetics and biblical hermeneutics, logic and logical fallacy.

So this is, we want this to be a resource to help you and your families defend the faith.

We also have interviews with theologians like Tony Costa, Chris Tate, Bruce Gore, Anthony Rogers, scientists like Dr.

Carl now, which is again, a great resource. So there's a lot of content out there and something for everyone.

So we appreciate if you like and subscribe. Dr. Carl, thanks once again. My name is Anthony Uvino, your