(Part 2) Christian Nationalism & The Resurgence of Postmillennial Theology

So let's turn to the gospel of John chapter 18. Like I said, I did a message on Christian nationalism and what's being said about it two weeks ago, and I said you're gonna hear more about it in the future and We're gonna watch some of the NBC news Segment where they did did this a few days ago or in the past week.

I said before I believe Christian nationalism is a made-up term. I don't accept it. I don't Reject it. I think it's a made-up term meant to paint Evangelicals who are patriotic in a bad light.

That.

They are a threat to American democracy. I mean, that's my opinion if you disagree with that, so I don't accept the term. I don't reject the term. I think that's what's behind it and the pastor that's going to be in this video Doug Wilson.

I do not endorse Doug Wilson, nor do I renounce Doug Wilson. This is just information.

And.

We're gonna look at John 18 in a second, but I just wanted to take one more Sunday to Discuss this. You had a hand on the dirt the term. This happens often.

A.

Slogan or or a title will be given that is is favorable. But then The how it's used or the definition of it or whatever. Are we going to talk about how this started or who started we don't know.

I don't know where the term came from, but it's basically I think a boogeyman. Who there's these Christian nationalists out there. It's meant to be a bugaboo right. A boogeyman to scare people that to create distrust to further the division.

Anytime the mainstream media does anything or the it's always.

Against.

Evangelicals. Right, yeah started with nationalism and white nationalism then as Christian nationalism and they're saying that you know. These Christian nationalists are looking to impose their their beliefs on everybody else.

Yeah, well, the secular progressives are imposing their beliefs on us, but I guess that's okay but you know if you have if Christians want to have a voice in this country, that's. That's theocracy. That's dangerous and they're gonna get women in burqas and they're gonna you know.

Stone people for breaking the Sabbath and basically they're trying to say that it's gonna turn Christians are trying. It's it's the Christian version of the Taliban basically is is what I gather. Okay, one more comment and then we're going to go to the video barb.

The Christian nationalism movement is Threatening to become you know to join church and state and every author history. You can see that when the church in the state become one Then you get people being burned to the stake you get the Crusades.

You get persecution of other denominations, right, you know the Puritans take the Baptists out of, Massachusetts.

And.

People yes unbelievers Right now are really disgusted with American Christianity. Yeah because of the sexual abuse scandals.

Yeah.

And the financial scandals from a while back. We are the laughingstock of the unbelievers, yeah, I know we always are but.

Christianity has given them plenty of reason to do so.

Yep. Yeah, and if anyone attends on Wednesday night If you pay attention to what I say on Wednesday night, you know full well that I do not Support the idea of theocracy that the government the federal government should make Christianity The religion of the nation and we impose it upon people and then you get what the Roman Catholic Church had with the Inquisitions.

And of course, I do not. Think that's a good idea. But of course Christians have Churches. The scandals a lot of it came from Roman Catholicism the sexual abuse scandals. Yeah, I think the stuff with the Southern Baptists is I mean any What there's there's a political agenda behind it so they they takes things that happen that were legitimately terrible and There's there's an interest to kind of blow it up into something.

But.

Let's just watch the video and then we'll comment on this.

Politics these days, but given the religious rhetoric coming from some Republican candidates this year. Doesn't feel as far-fetched or hyperbolic. I couldn't feel possible. Okay. I'm sorry. I can't help myself.

This is absolutely false. The idea that the United States is going to turn into a theocracy. It's the opposite of the truth. The secular Progressives have complete control over the government over the educational system over Hollywood.

The idea that Christians are going to take over the country is absurd. It's not even close to being possible any time soon, so. Yeah, and this guy's biased. He this guy hates what the Bible teaches so I you know, so it's absurd.

Okay. Sorry. I'm gonna try not to comment every five seconds. Okay, let's continue.

Or establishment of religion that this wall between church and state should actually come down and not only that these folks argue. The wall was actually never supposed to be there in the first place.

In fact, here's Lauren Bowen. She's a freshman member of Congress from Colorado. She was speaking this summer to Congress. Here's what she said.

The church is supposed to direct the government. The government is not supposed to direct the church. That is not how our founding fathers intended it and I'm tired of this separation of church and state.

Jump.

So the Republican candidate for governor in Pennsylvania the nation's fifth most populous state.

Said this to his supporters. So what's with this myth of separation of church and state?

That's right. And here's that's the same position that Michael Perutka the Republican nominee for Maryland Attorney General. He's. When he called the separation of church and state quote look great a lot and yet There can be no separation of God from government because he capital H there created.

Okay.

So.

There's a bait-and-switch going on the separation of church and state meant one thing originally. They changed it to mean something else today and then the separation of God from government is something completely different.

But there's kind of mashing it all together. So you heard and I know the reason they're doing this is not just to make evangelicals look bad. It's about the election and you know, the politicians they showed were Republic.

I don't want to get in to all of that. Okay, that's not why I'm doing this. I'm interested in the Christian angle. But separation of church and state originally meant that The government is to stay out of the affairs of the church.

Thomas Jefferson is the one who coined that term in a private letter to the Baptist Danbury Baptist Association or something. I from what I understand he was trying to calm their fears that the government was going to be getting involved In the affairs of it, so that's what it originally meant.

Government stays out of the affairs of the church, which we all Agree with today's separation of church and state is meant To you know, they've twisted it to me the exact opposite that you know. Your Christianity your faith needs to stay in the church house and in your house and it shouldn't be brought into the public square.

That's false. Okay, that's not what I mean. But the separation of God from government is what we are experiencing right now. Christianity in the United States of America. It's been our.

Identity.

Historically the founding fathers all Most of them professed to be Christian. Whether they really were or not is another story. They talked about the importance of Christianity in the Bible. It was a George Washington who said it is impossible to rightly govern the world without the Bible.

So what they're. So now what we're doing is we're just moving away from God and trying to erase any.

Any.

History of Christianity the Bible God being part of our our nation's history. We're trying to do away and erase all of that. So I think this just isn't an accurate Inaccurate portrayal. Any any comments on that before we move on?

Probably we should be Christian nationalists.

Even the Dallas decision overturning Roe vs. Wade has religious overtones. It has been cheered on by conservatives on religious friends. And in fact, it's actually led some liberals to look to the religious freedom restoration laws many of them vigorously opposed over the last decade.

To challenge to use these laws as an attempt to challenge these statewide abortion bans that are being passed around this country. So as a country, we are entering unknown territory. What is that? Where is this movement head?

My colleague NBC News correspondent Thompson traveled to Moscow. I know it's a blue line. Small blue line play and in otherwise Ruby Red State. That's grappling that has been grappling for years with questions about the role religion should play in the public square and everyday life.

Okay, I told you to turn to John 18, I think we should probably look at that. Any comments on what you saw there. Well, let me let me just say this. I know there's gonna be somebody sitting here and say pastor just preach the gospel.

Just preach the gospel.

Well, but I know that's the way some people think and they want me to stand behind the pulpit or just Tell you things that you already know and that you've heard a million times before. Okay, sometimes you have to address things that are going on the culture.

I know people I am with you. I don't what the stuff that they're saying is hard to Deal with I get it. But sometimes I think we do have to talk about What's going on if you read the Bible in every book.

Every book of the Bible. What are they talking about? They're talking about things that are going on at the moment. And then they go back and quote what the scripture says to bring the Word of God to bear to what they were going through.

We can't just talk about things that happened 2 ,000 years ago. We have to apply it to the modern day. So that's why I'm I'm doing things like this. Okay I know there's hands up. Give me a second John 18 33 through 36 Says then Pilate entered the praetorium again called Jesus and said to him Are you the king of the Jews and Jesus answered him?

Are you speaking for yourself about this or did others tell you this concerning me? Pilate answered am I a Jew your own nation and the chief priests have delivered you to me. What have you done? And Jesus answered my kingdom is what?

Not of this world if my kingdom were of this world my servants would fight. So that I should not be delivered to the Jews, but now my kingdom is not from here. So when Jesus said my kingdom is not of this world when he said that that was true.

But at the same time Jesus said all authority has been given to me in both heaven and on earth. Christ's kingdom today is Not of this world and some people have taken that to mean that okay. So whatever's going on in politics and government anything that's going on in the world.

That's completely separate and we should just withdraw and only open the Bible and talk about the Bible. That's a different kingdom. Christ said his kingdom is of this world. So just ignore it all. That's the conclusion.

Some people draw. That's not what Jesus is saying. It's not what Jesus is saying his kingdom as of that moment and even now is not of this world. But it will be it will it's called the second advent in the Millennium and until then we are to preach all that Christ commanded and This is another pet peeve of mine.

That when a politician comments on something or when a political party takes a stance. On a moral issue. Well now that's political and you shouldn't talk about it. No, if it's if it's a moral issue the church needs to talk about it, well, yeah, but that's a political issue.

So what they don't get to take things? Away from us and now we're not allowed to say anything. That's what they want, right? They want us not to get involved. They want us not to say anything. They want to push us into a corner and and shut us up.

So I'm not playing along with that but Christ's kingdom is coming and we are to proclaim just like the Old Testament prophets did to the kings of Israel and Just like John the Baptist preached to Herod about his behavior.

The the church is to direct the government in the sense that we speak prophetically of what God said and we are to inform the whole world politicians and Laymen and everybody else we are to proclaim the Lordship of Christ in what he said and not let anyone make you ashamed of it.

So, okay.

Yes, the gospel. The reason the gospel is the good news and the reason why we do preach the gospel Is because in fact This world is bad news This system and our own flesh the world the flesh the devil the curse of earth.

It's bad news.

Why do we need a Savior? Why do we call him Savior because we need to be saved from the consequences of? Of all this bad news, that's the good news, right? What's the black and brown and blue and purple and white?

Yeah.

The other used to be because God was the earth again, but now we. Yeah.

Right. The rainbow is the LGBTQ thing the pink and blue is the trans thing and then they added black and brown for them, you know black and brown folks and indigenous people, so it's just kind of bringing it all together and to one flag, but.

Yes, Larry.

In Paul's.

Teaching. But everywhere Paul went he was speaking to what was going on around him in and out of the church and Couple things happened at all. Everywhere he went He either got beat or stoned or thrown in a prison, you know.

And.

It didn't stop him from doing it. And What I see.

As.

The church in the past drawing away from Persecution away from Stepping into the culture biblically. We've lost So many of our rights. We've lost God in school. Yeah, you know. Because Christians have taken a backseat.

Sure. And I you know, hey, I'm guilty too. Yeah, and I'm not Necessarily pointing fingers, but I can't you know. There's no more.

Yeah, right, okay, let's turn to Revelation 19 now. Just because this came up and I know what people try to say and how they try to distort things. Whether it comes to someone who's black or I mean to put Someone who's african-american in the same category as LGB type.

That's one that has nothing to do with the other but what what they're trying to do also with Evangelicals evangelicals are just a bunch of racists. They hate people who are different than them. But these churches and they probably say this about us.

We just hate. Hate homosexually, you know, none of that's true. Barb mentioned the the history of of all the problems in churches. Yeah, that that's true in Christian churches there have been racist people in Christian churches.

There have been people who hate others in Christian churches. There have been people like that in Secular organizations there's people like that everywhere because all have sinned and have come short of the glory of God.

Nobody is arguing that well, the church has never done anything wrong. Have you read first Corinthians? It's always this way. So we don't hate anybody. We want people to be we love them so much we preach the gospel and we want them to be saved and go to heaven.

That that's why we exist but they're just gonna frame it in such a way that you're just. You know bigots and you know, you know how that goes Tony.

All right now it's not so much as hate it's the people on the other side are looking at disagreement as hate. Right, don't agree with me. Then you must hate me. Yeah another slogan.

Silence is violence. So it's not only that you have to agree with them Now you have to speak and say the same things they do because if you don't your silence is violence. I mean there might be those situations where remaining silent is Cowardice and it is terrible.

Yeah, so there's all these slogans. It's all going one way. It's meant to demonize Evangelicals in my in my humble totally unbiased opinion. I.

Think we need to warn people of the violence you want. What's the most violent thing you can imagine? God's wrath. That's fine. And that's what's good. That's what's happening to people. That's what they need to be saved.

Right. Okay.

God is love.

So, how can you be wrathful if he's all. Yeah, well people who say that they're ignoring two-thirds of the Bible probably. All right. Let's look at Revelation 19 11 through 16. Because the pastor that they're going to show again, I don't endorse him I don't renounce him I'm just showing you the video, but he is a Reformed Calvinist and his movement is is really defined by his Post-millennial theology and that that's something that we would disagree with Revelation 19 11 through 16.

We are pre millennial.

Okay.

Says now I saw heaven opened and behold a white horse and he who sat on him was called faithful and true and in righteousness he judges and Makes war. His eyes were like a flame of fire and on his head were many crowns.

And he had a name written that no one knew except himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood and his name is called the Word of God. And the armies in heaven clothed in fine linen white and clean followed him on white horses.

Now out of his mouth goes a sharp sword that with it He should strike the nations and he himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God and he has on his robe and on his thigh a name written King of Kings and Lord of Lords, so we believe that this is describing the second advent of Jesus Christ at the end of the age.

That's Revelation 19. In Revelation chapter 20. It talks about the establishment of the Millennial Kingdom and it's called The Millennial Kingdom because it says six times that it lasts for one Thousand years so based on my view and this church's view of the end times Jesus returns.

The Millennium is set up. Therefore the return of Christ is pre Millennium it is before Jesus comes back before the Millennium and Because we believe that Our view of world history is things are going to get worse and worse and worse and then at the end of the age Christ will come he will lay waste to the armies of the Antichrist the armies of this world that are Fighting against the Lord and his anointed and Once the Lord destroys all his enemies puts them under his feet.

Then he will establish his kingdom of righteousness for 1 ,000 years so because of that sometimes People who hold to that view pre-millennial ism The idea that some of us have as well, you know. We're hoping the rapture happens next week or something like that or it happens in our lifetime in the tendency.

And this pastor that's in the video. He would criticize people like us to say that we see we're not planning for the future. We're not building for the future because we all think we're going to get raptured out of here next week.

He thinks we're going to be around for probably another thousand years or more. So his view is we need to get working. Post-millennialists believe that they are to build the kingdom of God on earth. We believe Jesus comes and sets it up.

He believes and I'm not saying this to ridicule him. I'm just telling you his belief system. He believes that the church works to establish the kingdom therefore his Take his position is is highly political because in his mind Christians have to kind of take over.

That's the wrong way to put it. Christians need to or will eventually be in control of world governments. Christians will basically rule the world the church is going to take over the world in a nonviolent way, okay.

But it's the church that builds the kingdom. So he's got a coming at this from a very different point of view. I think that he has some valid Criticisms but That's a fundamental difference between us and him.

So Post-millennialists tend to be much more political than Premillennialists some of us would just we just want to stay out of it. I don't know that that's The best approach I like Larry was saying we need to make our voices heard.

We need to preach the truth and the more people yeah. But the more people that convert to Christ the more that's going to have an effect on Society that's the way I think it should be but let's Let's listen along.

Idaho students of grains and grass. A battle without bullets over the direction of a town.

I believe what's happening in Moscow is a microcosm of what's happening all across the country. That started here, maybe 10 or 15 years earlier than what's happening across the country. Well, just the radical division.

I don't think our nation has been this divided since 1859 is divided and it's inflamed and. That whole process I think began be visible here a Decade or a decade and a half before it became radically visible in the nation as a whole.

Pastor Doug Wilson leads Christ Church in what he calls a Cold War civil war. Our rights come to us from God and not from the government. Fighting in of all places. A college town. Moscow home to University of Idaho in just eight miles from Washington State University Exudes a live-and-let-live bond.

One of the interesting things about Moscow is how these two entities live side by side and I mean literally. Right behind me That's the offices of the Christ Church and right next door is the headquarters for the local Democrat Party.

From this former art house movie theater Wilson leads his campaign to make Moscow a Christian town.

Idaho is a very red state. Moscow's head was historically a very blue dot in this red state. And so consequently the fact that we've done this has been disrupted in the minds of some. But the feasibility of Evangelizing Moscow had to do with the importance of the university and the size of the town.

So in your version of a Christian town, would there be a place for non-believers? Oh, absolutely, and would there be a place for same-sex couples, but you mean legally?

Yeah, you mean like marriage? No, no marriage, but there'd be Same-sex couples. No marriage even though it's the law of the land in the United States. Just like rogue used to be in my belief system in our Doctrinal stand and what we believe the Bible teaches.

Homosexuality is not a choice, but a simple one. Yes. It is a muscular.

Masculine led vision of Christianity.

Scripture tells the man to provide protect and love. Scripture tells the woman to honor help and submit.

Expounded on he showed man rapids men are going to be dominant no matter what you do and. Articulated in his blogs this one saying marriage is a little kingdom and the husband is a little king.

Oh, why she's should be submissive to her husband as Paul teaches in multiple places. Yes, so why should be submissive to her husband, but in the blog post that you just cited I've made a special point of saying that the woman Exercises authority over the selection of the one that she's going to submit to.

So when you say why should be submissive to their husband? Does this mean?

Why shouldn't they be equal?

Well, because God created us a certain way.

So we want to fit with the design. Former mayor Nancy Cheney says the community has endured decades of Wilson's often incendiary ideas when some Kind of outrageous statements were made early on about Southern slavery as it was as a as a mutually affectionate relationship between master and slave or saying that members of our LGBTQ community trans people should be exiled or possibly stoned that catches our attention Wilson says he was misunderstood.

Rebutting the many controversies on his website writing he does not believe in the death penalty for homosexual acts or that slavery was a positive good but the Visible and invisible lines being drawn here and elsewhere across the country are setting off alarm bells for many Big leaders.

Do you consider Christ Church a church? I don't.

Really? I really don't. What is it then? I I see it as a dominionist cult.

Reverend, dr. Elizabeth Stevens leads the Unitarian Universalist Church of the Palouse in the public square. I don't see them representing.

Christianity. I don't see them representing. The values that that I find in the Bible. I see them representing Patriarchy. I see them.

Fighting the culture war Stevens position in that war is visible for all to see. A stained-glass rainbow chalice Wilson fights with the printed word a prolific author. He's written dozens of books all distributed by his own can impress.

It publishes more than a thousand different titles half of which are books of materials serving hundreds of thousands of homeschool and Christian students nationwide. Wilson laughs off the cult accusation, but the former Navy man embraces culture warrior.

You can't have a naval warfare without ships and you can't have tank warfare without tanks. And as I tell Christians all around the country you can't have culture war unless you have a culture. Our tagline is all of Christ for all of life.

So we want to be seven day a week 24-hour Christians and everything we do. And a distinctively Christian culture is forming here and Not reclusive and not cultic but it's distinct here in Moscow.

Wilson and Christchurch have built a multi-million dollar Enterprise that includes a team from 12th school a publishing house a college and a streaming show. Pursuits that some worry will change the very character of this town.

What scares me is that he is making Moscow into a Wilson town?

Keeley Emery mix is a former pastor.

What worries me is not that the stamp of Christ might be wrongly shoved down the throats of my my neighbors here in Moscow. But that the stamp in the foot of Doug Wilson will be wrongly and is being wrongly Crammed down their throats or standing on their neck.

I think that his influence on this town has been despicable.

Okay.

Despicable. Well, so let me just say this and I'll give you for the last five minutes to comment on what you heard.

The.

What's what's happening? What's gonna happen is they're just gonna push all even whether you like Doug Wilson. Whether you don't whether you. All evangelicals are gonna get pushed into the same camp and demonized.

And then you're gonna have the secular progressives who are in charge and The division is just gonna keep going forward. The tendency is to view them as The enemy. They view us as the enemy whether we like it or not.

With you. I'm not part of that group. Doesn't matter if you profess Christ and you believe every word of the Bible. They're gonna view you as the enemy. We need to resist the temptation to view them as the enemy even though I mean there's truth.

There's truth in that. We have to view them as the mission field. I Know that's hard maybe but we want to see people saved. Jesus died on the cross and rose again so that people would be saved. And Even if they don't believe it, we have to convince everybody that we're coming at this from a.

From a.

Position of love and grace. But it's gonna be really difficult because I don't know what's gonna happen in the next few years the next five ten years. We're in from for some interesting times, all. Right, that's all I'm gonna say.

And now. Your turn. Yes.

I think of the conflict that there was when Christ was on the cross and that people were spitting on and throwing garbage at Mocking him and everything and His attitude was was like you say one of love Forgive them.

They know not what they do. He told us that we should love our enemies and bless those that curse us and It is only God that can cause that to be the case that you actually can love. Yeah, and and care for these these poor fools.

There may be people that end up getting violent on both sides. I mean that might happen. There might be people who call themselves Christians or even people who say I'm a Christian and they do get violent even during the Reformation.

I believe Martin Luther was on the right side of things. But even people who followed him some of them got violent and he had to kind of calm them down. Don't do this is not the way so we reject violence.

But I think they're trying to paint it out that all these people really are a threat. You need to watch them. I just that's where I see this headed. So we need to be praying about this.

Right.

It's just it's a cycle that you know Satan instead. Right now I believe it and I think You mentioned this. At a point in time that Satan right now is setting the stage and God is allowing it.

Yeah, Larry.

Male and female.

Democrats Republicans.

Right straight gay black white rich for right?

Right.

I.

Don't know that you can but I think you just have to recognize it for what it is. This is a Marxist strategy. It's meant to divide the country to break down divide and conquer. So they pit every identity group against each other.

And it creates chaos and then they swoop in with the solution.

I mean.

Socialists. Marxist communists, they've done it before so I think we just need to recognize It is what it is. And we just need to live faithfully in this world and preach the gospel and not not. Get tempted to lash out.

Don't be don't get in the flesh. I think that's what they want.

Carolyn.

I'm not saying I do or don't. I'm taking a neutral position. I Would disagree with his view of the end times. Yeah, that's that's all I said about that. I would take a different view on the return of Christ in the Millennium.

But I'm not saying that we would have some differences. But you know, like I said, we're we're in the same group as him whether you want to be or not. As far as the world is concerned so I. I don't want to shoot arrows in his direction.

I.

Became a policeman because I wanted to help people and The first person's life that I was able to save spat on me threatened lawsuits and everything else because I Held her down while the doctor pumped out her stomach.

We're not gonna be thanked, you know, we're not gonna be thanked for trying to save people but in somehow in love. You just have to say please Yes, see this from my viewpoint I'm just trying to save you from wrath the wrath of God that is abide That's abiding on everyone that is rejecting or just not just rejecting but ignoring The salvation that's available from the penalty for our sin, which is which is eternal torment.

Okay, that's a good takeaway.

Use this.

Be aware of this, but that's a challenge to be more like Christ. You're getting there, but we're gonna face challenges that you've probably never faced before. Things keep going the way they're going.

View it as a challenge to grow closer to the Lord. To be more like Christ and to show his love towards others. Even though it may be very very difficult. But with the Holy Spirit you can do it. Amen. With God's help we can do it.

All right, you're dismissed.