Session 6: John Samson - How I Left The Charismatic Movement (Proverbs 23:23)

Kootenai Church

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Our last session here before lunch has to do with the personal testimony of one who came out of the very movement that we are critiquing.

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So, John Sampson, will you please come and share with us? I invite you to take

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God's Word and open to the book of Proverbs, chapter 23.

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23rd chapter of the book of Proverbs. It is a great joy, great privilege to be here and address this conference.

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I thank the Lord for the opportunity. I want to especially thank the makers of the cessationist documentary,

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David Tim and Les, as well as Pastor Jim Osmond, for the very kind and gracious invitation to address you all.

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It's a unique privilege. I bring you greetings from my home church in the

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Phoenix, Arizona area called King's Church. They're praying for you, for me.

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I received a question from a friend of mine. He asked, would the cessationist conference be live streamed?

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And I said, my guess is that you should catch on early and get the live stream early because after the first couple of sessions and the foundation is laid, it will cease.

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It's really a privilege to be here. And what I'm about to do is a departure from the norm, which is to open up the text of scripture and go there and stay there and make application from it.

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And I think though it will help the conference to share something of my testimony, my journey in and my journey out of the charismatic community.

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So let's go to the Lord and pray. Gracious God, we come before you.

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We ask that the Holy Spirit, the spirit of truth would reign in our midst and that you would lead us to your truth.

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Show us the Lord Jesus. Show us him in fullness. Be glorified in all that is said.

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May you accomplish all your desires and all your purposes.

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We pray in Christ's name. Amen. Book of Proverbs chapter 23 and verse 23.

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And ladies and gentlemen, this is the word of God. By truth and do not sell it.

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By wisdom, instruction, and understanding. The writer of Proverbs is instructing us and he tells us by truth and do not sell it.

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By the truth and sell it not. We're not told the asking price of truth.

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We're not told that. It may seem very affordable. It may not.

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It may seem out of reach. It might seem too expensive, but that should not hinder us.

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We are told by the truth. Whatever the price, whatever the price of truth, no matter how much it costs, whatever the asking price, you buy it.

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Though it costs relationships, though it costs a marriage, though it costs a family, though it costs a church, though it costs you your life, buy the truth and don't sell it.

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Truth may be very expensive, but so is the cost of error. So is the cost of lies.

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So is the cost of heresy. And in fact, it is far more costly in the end.

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Ladies and gentlemen, by the truth and sell it not. I did have a

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Christian upbringing. My father was a preacher. At times he was a pastor.

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He was a street preacher. He pastored a number of different churches.

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And yet I began to speak about it just in recent days. He was also a wife beater.

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Often I'd try to go to sleep at night hearing the screams of my mother in the next bedroom.

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I never heard him apologize or repent. And because of that,

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I think as a young man, a young boy, didn't really have too much of an interest in what he had to say.

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I had no heartfelt interest in Christ. I remember at age eight, seeing my dad read his

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Bible as he was preparing a sermon. He left the room, but he left his Bible open. And I just thought

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I'd read what he was studying. I looked at the passage and couldn't make any sense of it at all.

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And I made an internal decision then and there that this wasn't for me. Even at that age,

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I wanted to become a professional soccer player. I had no interest in Christ or the church.

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But at age 14, my dad actually did ask me to go to a message, a sermon, and a church service where he knew the gospel would be preached.

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It was actually a Pentecostal church, which kind of surprised me. Looking back, it surprises me.

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And in hearing the gospel, it was as if the Lord Jesus stood out from the pages of Scripture and it became a living reality to me.

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I went into that meeting not interested, and I came out interested. Now I understand that the

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Holy Spirit was at work, the invisible divine surgeon who took out my heart of stone and put in a heart of flesh.

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What a divine miracle. And at that moment, I wanted what I didn't want before.

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I wanted Christ. I knew that I could not stand before God and make the excuse of my dad as the reason

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I could not come to him or serve him. I knew he was real. One day I would stand before him.

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I knew it, and I repented, and I believed the gospel.

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I believe I was genuinely converted. But I was immediately thrust into that Pentecostal church, and then not too long afterwards into a charismatic church further south in England.

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I grew up in Chester, England, a Roman city, and it was built in the 70s.

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That's the A .D. 70s. Has a lot of history. But I remember after a few short weeks being confronted by an older gentleman,

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I still remember his name, John Lloyd, and he had a ministry of helping people into the baptism of the

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Holy Spirit. And for 20 minutes, maybe 25, it sounded and felt like an eternity to me.

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He was praying over me and instructing me that if I were to ask for the Holy Spirit, I would not get anything or anyone else.

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And so in asking for the Holy Spirit, he then expected me to speak in a new tongue. And he was jabbering some words and just telling me, say whatever comes to mind.

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And I thought to myself, nothing is coming to mind except I want out of here. And he kind of almost danced with a holy jig when

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I mumbled a few words, and it was just to get him off my back. He said, that's it. That's it. I said, that's it.

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That's it. Just continue in that new language and it will develop. And I thought, really,

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I just said that to get you off my back, but I didn't say it out loud. But I then developed the language and I was able then to speak in tongues at will and understanding that the word tongues is kind of misleading.

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It would have been better if the translators of scripture had translated the word into English's languages.

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They spoke in other languages. But there we go. I was speaking in tongues and off I went.

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Immediately, I then, within a few short months, went to the south of England to Somerset, and I attended a church where a certain gentleman became very prominent in my life.

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The name was Harry Greenwood. I was so in awe of him. I saw him as my spiritual father in the

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Lord. I got to know him as a friend. He had a home group, and he was regarded by many in England as the

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Kenneth E. Hagan of England. He never made that designation himself, but he was revered in that world in that way.

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And I became his friend and just was in awe of his relationship with the

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Lord, and I have nothing but good things to say about him as a person, though now

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I reject many of the doctrines he espoused. I was word of faith.

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I was charismatic. I come, in fact, from a family where even outside of my mom and dad,

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I had an uncle, Kenneth Matthew, who was very prominent as an Elim Pentecostal minister, very prominent.

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I also had another uncle called Floyd. I had an uncle Ken, and I had an uncle

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Floyd, Floyd Agar, and he was Smith Wigglesworth's driver.

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I don't think I ever told you that, Justin. So even from that quarter,

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Justin mentioned Smith Wigglesworth last night, and I'm thinking, yeah, he was influential in my extended family, and Floyd had much to say in terms of reverence for Smith Wigglesworth.

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So all this was part of my heritage. I was word of faith and charismatic.

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I need to say this. All word of faith people are charismatic. Not all charismatics are word of faith.

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And so I spoke in tongues, and even though this was a very lengthy and forced entrance into it,

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I developed that prayer language, and I thought I had close intimacy with God. The Holy Spirit was helping me understand the

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Bible, and I was hearing from God between my ears. I was reading the

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Scripture. One of the initial effects of being born again was that before I had no interest in the

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Bible, now I couldn't get enough. I was spending allowance money to get hold of cassette tapes, which ages me, to hear teachers teach the word of God.

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I was told, God is speaking to you in your mind. It comes across as thoughts in your mind, and it sounds like your own thinking because it's a walk of faith.

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Now I think, well, how do you discern the difference between your own thinking and God speaking?

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And I don't know if there's a genuine answer for that out there, but it sounds like your own thinking because the

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Christian walk is a faith walk. Within a few months of being down south in Somerset, England, I was exposed to the ministry of Kenneth E.

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Hagan and Kenneth Copeland. If you're in the movement, those names are prominent, although Kenneth Copeland is kind of aging, and Kenneth Hagan has passed off the scene.

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But in jargon, we would say Copeland and Hagan, Copenhagen.

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I immediately, after I was converted, fell a call to the ministry, and at age 16, didn't go the way that most thought

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I would, which would be to pursue professional soccer in England, football as it's called there, just a way of instruction.

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There's a ball that's round, and there's feet that's used. Just a thought.

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Just a thought. But it's called soccer here. And I felt called to the ministry, and before I was age 20, after going to the

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Kenneth Copeland Believers' Convention in Brighton in England, I was heavy into this.

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I then had a desire to go to Raymer Bible Training Center in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma, suburb of Tulsa, and I was all set to go.

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I was accepted to go. This was thrilling to me, and yet my dad, at the last moment, well, within about three or four weeks, found out that it wasn't residential, that there was no student housing, and so I'd have to get an apartment outside of the complex.

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And he, in his training, found that the discussions you have outside of the lectures are just as informative as the lectures themselves.

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And so he pulled the plug on it, and I wasn't able to go to Raymer. My heart sank, and I had to settle, in my mind, to go to an

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Elim Pentecostal Bible College in England.

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Seminaries here are called Bible Colleges and Theological Colleges over there. And so I enrolled there, thinking

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I was letting the side down, so to speak, except that all of this was in the hand of God, because 80 % of the lecturers, believe it or not, in that environment were

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Reformed, at least in their soteriology, their understanding of salvation. They never walked me through why.

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They never unveiled the beautiful tulip to me. They did not speak in those terms, but I understood they were

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Reformed. They believed in the sovereignty of God. In fact, the dean of the college, who was converted under my uncle

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Ken's ministry in his very living room, he would speak in tongues in the meeting and go to his home and read

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John Calvin's Institutes. Put that together. But that was the case. What it did was it instilled in me a reverence, or at least a respect,

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I'd say, for Reformed Bible teachers. I at least knew they were saved.

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I at least knew they were in the kingdom of God. They had sound theology in many, many ways, and yet I was embracing what

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I would now call an over -realized eschatology, an understanding that what will await us in the future was available to us now, and that's why

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I would believe and teach the message that God wants you well.

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I would hound fellow Christians who would not hold that.

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What is it about, by his stripes you were healed, you don't understand? That you've been blessed with every spiritual blessing in heavenly places, have been blessed, past tense.

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You see what I'm doing? I'm over -realizing what will take place then and seeing it always as now.

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Healing and abundance is available now. Healing is always God's will. Well, after graduating,

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I then became the associate minister of Harry Greenwood. He referred to me as his young Timothy.

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He was a massive influence, and I lived in the same house and traveled the world with him.

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He would often be speaking at very large churches, as well as small, and he would ask me to speak for 10 minutes, and then he would either correct the mistakes or leave it alone and preach.

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He was the main minister, of course, but it was tremendous training. I was with him for nine months, and he was preaching that healing and health is available to all, except that he died after nine months of a heart attack at the age of 54, and my world fell in.

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I had no idea what I would do. I was still in my early 20s. I became a co -elder in a church, in a place called

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Fleet in Hampshire, not too far from London. My fellow elder was a year and a half,

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I think, older than me, and I was 22. So, worked that one out. Elders, 22 and 23, 24.

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But after a few years, I had a desire to come to the States. One of the countries we had visited while I was with Harry was the

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United States, and I just had this love for the United States. We had gone to the

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United States, to India, to Australia, and New Zealand, me as his associate minister, and I'd come back to the

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United States. A number of churches had asked if I would come. They were hoping I'd improved, but I came anyway, and it was just a wonderful connection

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I had with the United States, and came out here eventually in 1992 with the purpose of starting a

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Word of Faith church, which I did, starting from scratch. I couldn't be more involved in the

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Word of Faith. I was a pastor in it. Within a few months of starting the church in 1993 in Phoenix, I became a

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TBN host, TBN being the Trinity Broadcasting Network, a

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Christian organization, and that occurred for about five years, and so I was doing live television shows, and you would have normally three or four guests and musical guests, and sometimes because it's a nature where they're not always true to their word, the fourth guest wouldn't show up, and I was told while a song was going, you're on.

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Preach. You've got 22 minutes, and you're just in a live show. Just have to not panic and think, what can

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I say for 22 minutes, and then you get your Bible out, and you go with the flow, and you're looking at the timer counting down 19 minutes, 14 minutes, and you realize for the last one and a half minutes, you've got to go through this ornate thing of saying the prayer partners are standing by.

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Call the number on the screen and say you've got to leave time for that, and many people would panic, but that was my training in the charismatic realm.

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We understood be instant in season and out of season. It really meant be ready no matter what the heck is going on.

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That's really what the case was. Then in 1998,

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Jan Crouch, I think she was having a bad hair day. She had many of those.

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She fired all the hosts. I don't think it was personal to me. She just alerted the station manager in Phoenix.

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This was a live broadcast twice a week, a Tuesday and a Friday. It was repeated at about midnight on those days.

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She just alerted the station manager that basically everybody's fired, and there was no thank you.

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It was just you're fired, and I think I'm the only one in this room who was fired by Jan Crouch.

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I think it's kind of safe to say that, but there we go.

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I met some very unusual people in that environment as you might imagine over that period of time.

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There was a gentleman by the name of Andrew Womack who I invited many, many times to preach at the church

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I pastored. He actually stayed in my home many, many times. We had a good friendship.

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When Benny Hinn came to town, I was there at the Coliseum in Phoenix on the platform welcoming him.

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I shook his hand. I now wince at that, but that was the case.

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I didn't imbibe every error of the word of faith. I never imbibed the idea that Jesus died spiritually, that he was born again as a satanic creation in hell.

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I knew better than that. Thankfully, the Holy Spirit protected me from at least that distortion.

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I didn't believe in the little God's doctrine. However, I did believe that the words we speak are like containers, that death and life's in the power of the tongue, and I was one who would expose that understanding based on a false understanding and a wooden understanding of that text,

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Mark 11, 23, that says you'll have whatever you say. You think, what is the attraction of that?

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Well, the attraction was if life wasn't going too well, you can cooperate with the laws of nature out there, and these laws, the way it was taught, work for everyone.

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They'll work for the Buddhist, the atheist, anybody who understands those laws, just as gravity works for everyone.

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It doesn't take into account, well, this person's a Roman Catholic, or this person's a

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Buddhist. Gravity's going to work a different way for them. No, there's certain laws out there, and the Bible tells us those laws, and certain people in other religions and other environments have come up with this same understanding.

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The words we speak are like creative forces that allow us to have seed time and harvest, and when something bad has happened in our lives, it's the direct result of us speaking certain things.

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Death and life are not in the power of God, so we were taught, but in the power of the tongue.

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I still believe the verse. I don't believe the interpretation of the verse. Yeah, so what happened?

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I ain't that anymore, you noticed? And now a reformed Baptist pastor and a committed cessationist.

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What happened was, in the year 2000, now the church had grown to between 200 and 300 people.

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It started from scratch. Just a fun story. When we started, we were believing

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God for revival, and we rented a place called the Arizona Banquet Center.

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It no longer exists. It's now a gas station, but we rented this place, and on Thursday, which was our midweek meeting, counting's never been a good thing for me, so midweek was

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Thursday. That was our midweek meeting, and we put loads and loads of rows of chairs out, even though we'd only had 18 on the

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Sunday. Think about that. Not very wise, but we said we'd meet on Thursdays, and we did, and it came time for the meeting, and I realized only the

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Samsons were there. Samson Family Church. Only us

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Samsons, the family name, were there, and we thought, do we go ahead? The Phoenix Suns were in the playoffs.

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It was 1993. They went all the way to the final. It was a great year. I thought they did that every year, but no, and we said, we'll go ahead, and we're into the third song, and this one gentleman walks in.

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His name was Ed. I still remember him, and he sat on the back row, of course, and it came time for the announcements, and rather than announcing them,

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I walked up to him and said, you're the only guy who doesn't know what's going on. Here you go. Here's the announcements, and he sat on the back row, and all day long,

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I'd been praying and pacing and praying in tongues, wanting God to show me what to preach, and what was on my mind was, repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

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The poor guy. All I could do was look at him, and he was there on the back row, and so I looked at him and said, repentance means a turnaround.

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Have you turned around? What evidence is there that you have turned around? Poor guy.

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It's like rent a sermon, and so he was blasted for about 40 minutes.

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After 40 minutes, I laid down my weapons and closed, and that's not really the funny part.

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The funny part was afterwards, he came up, and he said, Pastor John, I just have to say,

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I really felt that that message was for me. Well, in the year 2000,

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I received a flyer in the mail from Ligonier Ministries about Dr.

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Sproul, who I'd seen his messages, his VHS messages on the holiness of God, and was impacted by them.

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I had respect for him, but my heart sank when I saw what he would be teaching when he came my way.

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He was coming to Scottsdale, Arizona, which was pretty close, and I wanted to see him. I wanted to hear him, yet not on that subject.

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Chosen by God. This was the year 2000, and my thought was, this is a new millennium.

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Haven't we got over this? This is an idea way past its sell -by date, but here he was flying from Florida to Arizona, which is in European terms, like seven or eight nations and languages, to come to Scottsdale to talk about Chosen by God, and so I was in two minds whether I'd go.

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I thought, I won't go. I'd like to hear him, and there was this wrestling going on, and another guy was saying he was going to go, and within two hours of the meeting, he called to say he wasn't going, and thought, oh, well,

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I'm not sure if I really want to go. I ended up going, but I sat on the back row because I thought, the moment

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Dr. Sproul, as much as I might respect him, the moment he starts talking about theologians and dead guys,

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I'm out of here. If he can't show me what he's saying in the Scriptures, I'm not interested. I wanted to hear

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Scripture say what he's saying, or else I'm out of here. I didn't want to disrupt the meeting, and so I sat on the back row for that reason, and he went to the

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Scripture. He didn't go to the theologians. He didn't need to. He went to Ephesians. He went to John's Gospel, chapter six, and I remember it very, very well, but what brought me back, this was a

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Friday night and a Saturday morning meeting, what brought me back on the Saturday was he said, we're going to have a question and answer session, and I thought, really?

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Wow, that's when your wheels are going to fall off. All we need is just a couple of good

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Scriptures that would negate all you're saying. I see what you're saying, but I've got my Scriptures. I've got my

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Scriptures. John 3 .16, 2 Peter 3 .9. Well, I attended the question and answer, and as the session was about to start,

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Dr. Sproul came out all jovial, and I thought, we're going to wipe the smile off your face, and he said, what's the first question?

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Then he said, no, no, no, wait. I think I can prophesy what the first question will be.

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It's either going to be John 3 .16 or 2 Peter 3 .9, and I'm thinking, yeah, and the host said, how did you know that?

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Because I've taught this, I know what comes up, and what he did then was go to those Scriptures, and I thought, what's the point of going to these

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Scriptures? We know it. Every Christian can quote this in their sleep, punch them at two in the morning.

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They still know what John 3 .16 says. What are you going to show us? That's all in my head.

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He went to the text, and in two minutes, he exposed my traditions.

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He said, this is what we read into the text often, but if you notice, it doesn't actually say this, it says that.

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It says that all the believing ones will not have this result, but that result.

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They'll have eternal life and not perish. It does not say who will believe. It does not say who can believe.

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That's something we read into the text, and if you could have had a camera on me, you'd have seen me go as white as white can be because all the blood was draining from my face because I realized

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I was in trouble. He exposed my tradition. He did that also with 2

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Peter 3 .9. God is not willing that any should perish, but all should come to repentance, and I write about this in my first book, 12

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Whatabouts. If a divine election is true, what about this? What about that? What about this Scripture? He exposed my tradition.

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I was not converted to his way of thinking on the spot. In fact, what I did because I thought

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I owe it to myself to know the truth about this, I ordered everything I could on my credit card of Dr.

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Sproul's material on this subject, and for six to nine months, I studied this.

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To my great surprise, they came out believing he was absolutely right and I was absolutely wrong and that I had not only believed but a taught error.

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Proverbs 23 verse 23 rang in my ears, buy truth and do not sell it.

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After nine months of study, I became reformed in my soteriology. Soter is the

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Greek word for to save. So everyone has a doctrine of salvation. Even if you don't believe in salvation, that is your doctrine of salvation.

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I want to be informed by the Scripture to know what is the biblical doctrine of salvation.

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If I now look back, Dr. Sproul flew out from Florida, came to Arizona, and threw a large rock into my theological pond.

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He went back to Florida and the ripple effects were taking place day after day after day.

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And I asked myself, once I was understanding he was right, what else could

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I be wrong about? People I'd been listening to, they'd been reformed at the

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Bible college, but not what I wanted to be.

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I didn't get into this. Perhaps you didn't get into your Christian life to be one thing other than a follower of Jesus.

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But I found that Jesus had taught these same doctrines that some of the greats in church history who had overturned nations under the power of God had believed.

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So I was now reformed in my understanding of salvation, yet I was still not wanting to drop the charismatic emphasis.

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And so I describe myself as reformed and charismatic. I didn't want to grieve the

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Holy Spirit. You see, I didn't want to think that I was grieving what the

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Holy Spirit was wanting to do in my life. A phrase

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I came up with, which I understand now is not original to me, was, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

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It's not that long ago, Phil Johnson came out with a message on YouTube, you can find it called, is there a baby in the charismatic bathwater?

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And he said, there's no baby at all. I'd encourage you to watch that.

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Summoning up, how did I come out? Two things helped bring me out. Hermeneutics.

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Now he's not a German soccer player, though it sounds like he is.

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Oh, hermeneutics, didn't he score against Hungary? No, no, that's not him. Hermeneutics refers to, of course, the science of biblical interpretation.

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One of those is context, just as in real estate, there are three main laws, location, location, location.

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In hermeneutics, though there is more to it, certainly three big laws are context, context, context.

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If I were to give you an analogy, perhaps I'm writing to my friend Justin and an email and I'm in New York and it's seven o 'clock at night and it's winter time and the electrical grid goes out so that everybody in New York is now without electricity.

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And I write a little line to Justin and I say, everyone in New York is cold tonight.

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I've given you a context for that sentence, but what we tend to do in the charismatic realm is isolate certain words and not see them in the context.

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And so using that as an analogy, it would be wrong for someone reading my interchange with Justin to say this,

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John Samson says, everybody in New York is cold.

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They don't like outsiders. They hate visitors. Don't go there. They're unfriendly.

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Look at the text. Look at the email exchange. Everyone in New York is cold.

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But because of context, you realize that's to be rejected as a true interpretation, because I was not speaking about warmth and empathy, but about physical temperature and warmth.

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And everyone in New York is cold because there's no heating available. So it is in the realm of the charismatic sector.

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Over time, I realized that seeing verses in their context meant many of the doctrines

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I believed and espoused had to go away. They were not supported by the biblical text.

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When it comes to 1 Corinthians 13, the tongues of men and of angels, if there's not a speaking forth of the languages of men, it must be this angelic thing.

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But if you actually read 1 Corinthians 13, Paul is expressing hyperbole. Thing after thing after thing in that context points us to that conclusion.

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So hermeneutics was big. For anyone in deception, which we all tend to be prone towards, and it's only the

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Holy Spirit who keeps us from deception or brings us out of it, left to ourselves, we are blind to the things of God or things are fuzzy to us.

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But the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, will guide us into the truth of his word. And it's the Holy Spirit who gives us a thirst and a desire to know the truth.

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And I would say now to my charismatic friends, I've had many conversations and they quote a passage to me and they quote a verse to me and I say, could you take two minutes with me and look at that verse in its context?

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And the answer is no, I don't need to. So now I look back and think, the desire to study this, the desire to study the scripture, that's the

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Holy Spirit at work. I can't even take credit for that. God gave me a desire for truth. That's why

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I came out. Even that desire was Holy Spirit born. Second recognition helping me come out was a doctrine called sola scriptura, which states that the

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Bible alone is the word of God. The Bible is not only necessary, but it's sufficient as the word of God.

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Ladies and gentlemen, scripture is enough. It fully equips the man of God for every task of ministry.

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And that's what the Holy Spirit has breathed out to let us know in 2 Timothy 3, 16 and 17.

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Paul in saying goodbye in a letter form to his son in the faith says,

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I'm going off the scene, but scripture is all you need. It equips you for the counseling you do, the evangelism you do, the equipping of the saints for the work of the ministry.

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Whatever the task of ministry is, the word of God not only equips you, it fully equips you for everything you're going to face.

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I'm not leaving you with big Pete's email address if you have some issues. I'm not giving you his residence address.

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You don't need Peter. You need scripture. Scripture alone is all you need, Timothy. And as a

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Herald of the King preached the word in season and out of season, that's the very next chapter.

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And then he says, I'm being poured out like a drink offering. I'm about to depart, but I'm leaving you with the most important message.

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Scripture is enough. The Holy Spirit inspired Bible tells me that scripture is enough.

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That's it. The Bible alone has the authority to bind the conscience.

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Luther at the Diet of Worms in 1521, when he was going to be sentenced to death, probably, and he knew it, came out with that immortal speech.

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Unless I am convinced by sacred scripture or by evident reason, I will not, I cannot,

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I cannot, and I will not recant of anything. For my conscience is held captive by the word of God and to act against conscience is neither right nor safe.

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Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Here I stand.

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I can do no other. God help me. In German. God help me.

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And an understanding that scripture alone has the authority to bind the conscience.

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When I realized that, I realized this, nothing that had ever taken place between my ears rises to the level that it can bind the human conscience.

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Nothing. I cannot say, I have this word that I believe is from God and it is binding upon you now as you hear it.

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But I can say that about scripture. When God speaks, he speaks with all his authority.

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It's not like you, he turns the volume down and the power down and on a particular

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Tuesday, he's functioning at 70 % capacity. When God speaks,

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God speaks. I can look back and think that though I had an unusual experience many, many times, and I thought

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I was hearing from God, I could never say with 100 % certainty, I've just heard from God.

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But when I read my Bible, I'm hearing from God. And that's Jesus testimony.

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In Matthew 22, in debating with those religious people that were against him,

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Matthew 22, verse 31, you read it. He said these words, quoting the book of Exodus.

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Have you not read what was spoken to you by God? Have you not read what was spoken to you by God?

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And quoting the book of Exodus, they were living centuries after the time of Exodus. But in reading

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Exodus, Jesus' view of scripture is this. When you read scripture,

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God is now addressing you personally now.

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Every time you hear, every time you read, God is addressing you.

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And I realized that was not true of what happened between my ears. I could never say what

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I think. My thoughts are binding upon you. I had a view that the word of God was kind of dead till the

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Holy Spirit came upon it. The letter killeth and the spirit giveth life.

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Misapplication of scripture once again. But the Bible itself said the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two -edged sword.

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We have a more sure word, and Peter was talking about the greatest experience anyone could possibly experience.

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Hearing the audible voice of God, the transfiguration of Christ on the mountain. Only three human beings had had that experience, yet he said the word of God is more sure, more certain.

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Another thing that led me out, let's go to Matthew chapter 10, verse 1. Jesus gave authority to the 12.

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Matthew 10, 1. Say with me the word every.

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Every. Every disease and every affliction. Christ sets no limitation on his apostles.

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He didn't say heal them if the condition isn't too severe. No limits.

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Every affliction. I can say after a couple of decades in the word of faith and the charismatic scepter,

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I never saw that. Mentally disabled, mentally handicapped people healed.

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Jesus said every. No, never saw it. Severe, physically disabled and handicapped people, never saw them healed.

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And ladies and gentlemen, I never saw it happen and it isn't happening.

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Charismatics, you need to be honest. It's not happening. If there was even one case of a severely mentally disabled person healed in a charismatic meeting, it will be national news.

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People around the world, no matter where you find them in the poorest areas still have cell phones. Show me someone coming to a meeting like that, walking and leaping and praising

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God as they did in the book of Acts. Ladies and gentlemen, it's not happening. Apostles are not walking the earth doing what

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Jesus and his 12 did. And they came back and were able to report that they were seeing incredible miracles, real genuine miracles.

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Just concede this, that apostles like the 12 are not walking the earth now and you must conclude the sign gifts have ceased.

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The foundation was laid and the need for the apostles ceased.

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Reading through Hebrews chapter 11, the great faith chapter, it's ironic. As you read through the chapter, the people of God that believed, that were commended for their faith, endured good things and hard things.

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You read from verse 32 to the end of the chapter, many things good, many things good, many things good, many things hard, many things hard, many things hard.

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They were sown in two. That's hard. One was not told, the others had more faith than you.

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Someone full of the Holy Spirit will talk about Jesus more than they will talk about the

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Holy Spirit. Because the Holy Spirit's ministry is to glorify

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Jesus. So if someone is being filled with the Holy Spirit, they're not going to be talking about the

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Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit, though he's God and is to be worshipped as the Father and the

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Son is to be worshipped, the Holy Spirit does not desire to be sent to stage. He wants to go and say, would you just please lift up Jesus?

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Once went to Australia and in the daytime saw Sydney Opera House and in the daytime it was nice to look at.

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I'm glad I saw it, but I saw other buildings around it and it was a little bit strange to me and didn't kind of understand what the drawing was to go to see the

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Sydney Opera House. But I came back later that same night and saw Sydney Opera House at nighttime.

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This time the floodlights had singled out the building of the Opera House, showing its splendor and it was stunning.

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I was in awe. I thought, whoa, what a building. Jesus said of the

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Holy Spirit, he will glorify me. That is the work of the Holy Spirit to emphasize not the building, but the

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Lord Jesus, his person and his work, that he's true God and true man.

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And when the floodlights do their job, no one goes away talking about the floodlights.

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They talk about the building and someone full of the Holy Spirit talks about Jesus. I challenge you to find on YouTube a sermon from a

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Sunday at King's Church in Phoenix where the gospel is not presented. I have heard charismatic leaders speak hundreds of times.

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Not once has there been a biblical gospel proclaimed. Tell me that's the Holy Spirit. Sorry, I can't go with you.

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The Holy Spirit will show us Jesus and will anoint a man of God to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ.

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And even in this environment, I want to tell you the gospel of Jesus Christ, that though we had been treasonous rebels committing sin before a holy

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God, God in his love for this world sent his only son into the world who was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life.

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And there on the cross endured the anger, the wrath of God due to us for our sins.

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He absorbed that wrath. He was punished in our place and he died on the cross for sinners.

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And three days later, he rose again from the dead and is now at the place of all authority in this universe.

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And he says, all authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth. And anyone who repents and believes this good news is set free from the kingdom of darkness and has eternal life forever and ever and ever by the person and the work of the

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Lord Jesus Christ alone. The Holy Spirit's in that, that message.

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Someone filled with the Holy Spirit will preach that message often to the delight of the

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Holy Spirit. Another reason I came out of charismatic sector is because of reading

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Ephesians chapter two. You remember there that we're told that the big barrier between Jew and Gentile has been torn down.

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Notice it was a barrier that was first of all erected by God. God erected the barrier between Jews and Gentiles.

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Now in Christ, he was tearing it down and he has torn it down. God in Christ has demolished the wall.

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Ephesians 2 14, he has broken down in his flesh, the dividing wall of hostility. The reason

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I reject charismatic doctrine is because charismatics build the wall back up between the haves and the have -nots.

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They proclaim a two -tier Christian community. According to Dan Phillips, the saints and the ain'ts.

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But that is in fact the exact opposite of the true work of the Holy Spirit. Selah.

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Stop. Pause. Think about that. Meditate and ponder.

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I've lost friends. I've lost a number of things because I've come out of that. But I thank

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God for the deliverance. I thank God that I'm seeing in scripture the truth of his word and that I know when

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I'm hearing from God, when I'm reading my Bible, that it equips me for finding the will of God.

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It is sufficient for guidance. It is sufficient for counseling. It is sufficient for every need of life and ministry.

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And it's the Holy Spirit who has affirmed that to me in his word. Set free from trying to find the breadcrumbs of what is

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God leading me to? Did I catch everything he's trying to tell me? I'm on channel 32 watching and I'm thinking,

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I'm seeing something about Seattle coffee. Is God calling me to Seattle? Oh, and the panic of, am

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I finding the will of God here? No, I've got scripture. It tells me what the will of God is. And whether I go to Seattle or Portland or Belgium, the will of God is my sanctification.

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Find a local church. Read your Bible. Love God and love people.

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And you're in the will of God. I reject that which

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I was raised in because the Holy Spirit, the spirit of truth, though I still have a long way to go,

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I have not arrived, but I thank God I've left. May he always lead us into his truth.

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Let's pray. Father, we thank you for the Lord Jesus. We thank you for the tender, wonderful ministry of the

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Holy Spirit. May he lead and guide us by the truth of his word into the truth that we would know it.

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The truth by itself doesn't set us free. It's knowing the truth. Continuing in the word, then we'll be true disciples and we'll know the truth and the truth will set us free.

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Set your people free. We pray in Christ's name.

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Amen. If somebody has the gift of miraculous healing, surely all he needs to do is to prove it.

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But let's face it. We've been battling with COVID and the so -called miracle workers went into hiding together with us.

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Cessationism is the view that certain miraculous gifts that stood as signs of an apostle, speaking in tongues, healing, prophecies, interpretation of tongues, gifts like that ceased with the apostles.

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Cessationism has fallen out of favor because commitment to the authority of scripture has fallen out of favor.

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When you turn on Christian TV, you don't see expositors of scripture,

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John MacArthur or Steve Lawson. You see Joel Osteen, Joseph Prince, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer, Paula White.

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That's who you see because that's the mainstream. Speaking in tongues. You're going to speak out of your spirit.

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Don't worry about what it sounds like. Our understanding of speaking in tongues must be guided by the scriptures, not our feelings.

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They were known languages that were capable of interpretation, and not everybody speaks in tongues.

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If God speaks, it must be infallible, inerrant, and authoritative. And the Lord said to me, will you howl for me?

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I said, don't ask me to do that, Lord. There's no longer the need for the gift of prophecy, speaking forth divine revelation from God.

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We have now the whole counsel of God. This word is the final word.

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The apostolic gifts have gone. They were never intended for our generation. We have everything that we need from the

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Holy Spirit today. It's hard to get anyone who's gone through that to come back and take a serious look at faith in Christ, focused on the gospel rather than focused on these phony miracles.