Apologetics 101 (part 3)

Cornerstone Church iconCornerstone Church

1 view

University: Apologetics 101 (part 3) Jeff Kliewer June 18, 2017

0 comments

Salvation to the Ends of the Earth, part 4 (Acts 14:8-28, Jeff Kliewer)

Salvation to the Ends of the Earth, part 4 (Acts 14:8-28, Jeff Kliewer)

00:00
on force, but Jesus did it on love. And even today, millions would die for him.
00:05
That's what I'm saying. That's a good quote. Somebody mind just opening quickly in prayer for us? Thank you,
00:11
Tom. Father, thank you so much for your word. Thank you for the scholars that study and for presenting us with these challenges of having a biblical worldview and to be able to have a defense for our faith at any term.
00:28
And we thank you for bringing those people into our lives that we can present with the gospel. We pray that we would absorb the information and material that Jeff presents and that it may go to your glory and our good, in Jesus' name.
00:43
Amen. Last week, we took almost an entire class on secular humanism because the main challenge that we're facing is the secular humanist.
00:54
I use that kind of as a broad category. For those who have a different worldview that begins with themselves at the center, the idea of humanism is that mankind is at the center.
01:06
And therefore, mankind is an independent knower and even can create truth in this postmodern world that we live in.
01:14
The idea is that a person can generate their own truth. Truth is really just relative to what you think and what you believe.
01:22
And that really is the primary worldview of America today. Even in a country that calls itself
01:27
Christian, if you really get down to the issue of epistemology, how do you know?
01:34
Most people form their opinions and their beliefs by empiricism and rationalism, by what they experience and by how they think, their own logic.
01:43
So that places themselves at the center. Whereas as Christians, we have the opposite epistemology.
01:49
For us, all knowledge comes from the word of God. That's the bedrock for us.
01:55
That's our way of knowing. So there's something outside of the box that can't be seen and that's beyond our rationality because our rationality is limited and that's the authority for us.
02:07
So even in areas where we don't understand and we're trying to gain clarity or we're not quite sure why this is so, we accept it as our presupposition.
02:16
That's our starting point. So there's really a clash of worldviews in America today, isn't it? There's those who believe in the
02:23
Bible and those who don't. And the value system that comes from that postmodern humanism is such that there's anger towards Christians because what we're saying is we do know.
02:35
We have certainty. And the whole epistemology of the postmodern worldview is that you can't know anything.
02:43
Everybody has their own position but none are absolutely true. There's no absolute truth.
02:49
There's only your truth. So the one thing they can't stomach is a Christian saying we know.
02:56
And by know, we mean with certainty. It's a revelation from beyond us, therefore it comes from God and it's 100 % certain.
03:04
And that's the claim that we make, that Jesus in fact is God. Not that I just think he is or my experience leads me to say that he is but we say that he is.
03:13
I am who I am, right? So we live by the word of God. So we spent that last week.
03:19
Yes, Stan. This would be a great class to go with me down to the prison ministry on Thursday night.
03:26
You get to hear both sides, the non -Christian and the Christian. And we had a major debate, just what we're talking about here.
03:34
One guy doesn't believe and it wasn't me but other prisoners stood up and they said, you know, you know deep down in that there is a
03:45
God, right? You're suppressing it saying it's not. That's the key. But this was an argument.
03:51
I was thinking of our class when we were down there. The two arguments and for all of us to be there, at least they hear it.
03:57
You hear the arguments. Right. Both sides. Yep. On the apologetics and those who don't want to believe.
04:03
Right. So with Romans one, people are suppressing the truth. That's the starting point for us in our apologetics.
04:12
I advocate for a presuppositional approach to apologetics which means that you don't assume that a person is being rational or even rationalism itself comes from God.
04:26
So the Bible, you presuppose the Bible is true and then defend it for its consistency, for the worldview and the fruit that it produces.
04:34
But you don't grant a person the common ground of rationality. What I mean by that, somebody says, you know, begins to argue against the
04:43
Bible or against anything. They begin to use logic. They begin to use rationality to right away show that rationality itself presupposes that there's a
04:54
God. They say, well, you're wrong to protest this abortion clinic or to protest and to call out to these women.
05:03
You say, well, on what grounds do you say that I'm wrong? How can you say under your worldview that there is any right or wrong?
05:10
Because morality itself has to come from something higher than us. So that's the presuppositional approach is to drive right at the presupposition that's underneath it all.
05:22
So I think that's really helpful. We saw an example of that last week with Jeff Durbin and I'd encourage you to look more into presuppositional apologetics.
05:31
Okay, so if this is the case, if we live in a postmodern world, still modern, most people still operate by a certain level of modernity, right?
05:41
That there is cause and effect, there are absolutes, they live by that, but in their philosophy, there's more and more postmodernism entering it.
05:49
By that, I mean relativism, that all things are relative, that nothing's certain, there is no absolute truth.
05:56
How then do you address someone who's becoming postmodern, still has modernism, but this is the general worldview of the people around us.
06:06
What apologetic would be helpful? We talked about three things last week. Three things that would be helpful.
06:11
Do you remember anything that, the first one? Bible? Yes, well that's always the core for us.
06:19
We always make our arguments from the scriptures. Take them to their own level of ludicracy.
06:25
Yes, beautiful. I like the way you said it. Proverbs 26, four and five, it says, answer a fool according to their folly.
06:32
Go down that road with them for a while to show them. You saw in the first video we watched, it's called
06:38
Evolution, what? The Evolution, what was that first? Delusion.
06:44
Delusion, right, the Evolution delusion. Ray Comfort was talking to that man out on the pier, and he says, well, what's the meaning of life?
06:52
And he says, well, do you want to die? And he said, yes, I want to die. You know, he led them down that road to show there is no life in your worldview.
07:01
This is the nihilism that your worldview leads to. Bring them down that road and then say, but wait, there is a
07:08
God who speaks into the world. So that was one thing we talked about. What was another thing?
07:18
Before getting to the cross, which is important, and you have to get there, talk about Jesus as revelation from God, that God has, in Christ, come into the world and brought light, that the light has come into the world and exposes the darkness.
07:35
So talk about Jesus as a revelation from God and compare that to whatever their revelation is.
07:41
Are they listening to Richard Dawkins? Why should I trust you? Why should I trust Richard Dawkins? I listen to Jesus.
07:48
So show that Jesus is greater than whatever their source is, okay?
07:54
And then what else did we say? I forget kind of what the last one was, but we talked about just the Bible, I guess, being the core of everything that we preach and just going back to the scriptures today.
08:05
So moving on, we'll leave that behind from last week. That's kind of the main idea that we wanted to take from this class, the two schools of apologetics, the secular humanist being kind of the main area of attack that's gonna come at us.
08:18
What is apologetics again? The defense of the gospel. So it's a little different than evangelism.
08:25
It can be used in evangelism when you're under attack, but evangelism is more proclaiming
08:30
Christ and preaching the gospel. So the defense, so that's what apologetics is.
08:36
So humanism will be the biggest one that we face, but there's many others. So today I wanted to do something a little different.
08:42
Instead of just teaching through the notes, because there really wouldn't be time to do justice to any one of these cults or religions, let's just look through for a moment and make this more of a conversation.
08:55
Is there anybody here that has had encounters with one of these groups that's had an apologetic encounter that we could talk about?
09:05
And we'll just kind of pick and choose a few of these to go through. And if there's time, I'll touch on some.
09:12
Well, I went with you to the Mormon picnic. Yeah, so what did you learn from that? What were some of the things?
09:18
Let's do Mormonism first. That's, I have some bullet points for Mormonism. It's 4 .4.
09:25
4 .4. The approach at that picnic was to allow the speaker,
09:34
I was taken aside by their chief teaching elder. And he made a presentation to me.
09:43
And allowing him to make his presentation until he finally had something on his screen that screamed contradiction to what they had to say.
09:54
And then agreeing that he's got all this great stuff. Can you please explain to me deeper what it is you had to say?
10:03
And allow his own words to show the contradiction. Yeah, yeah.
10:08
In this particular one, he said, every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is
10:14
Lord. And I said, this is amazing. I totally agree with you. But what do you mean by Jesus Christ is
10:19
Lord? And that's where he flat out could not explain what he meant.
10:26
So are you saying it's okay to have a conversation, a respectful conversation where you actually listen?
10:32
I think it's mandatory. You don't just have to preach right away. And that's not showing agreement just because you're listening and you're being respectful, right?
10:41
It's not fellowship. Right, it's not fellowship, right. Yeah, you're not saying that, hey, we're all just on the same side.
10:48
But you can be respectful. You can be gentle. Remember 1 Peter 3 15? And John, you did a great job with that.
10:53
And then I noticed at the end of that, all of a sudden somebody asked you to share your story. Well, and right then the two
10:59
Mormon missionaries walked up behind you and listened to your - What happened was we were drinking for lunch and I asked the gentleman, give me your testimony.
11:08
He said, well, what do you mean? I said, whatever you feel it means, just give me your testimony. And I allowed him to talk and I engaged in his discussion.
11:16
Right. I gave value to his discussion. And so when he was done, he had really no choice but to ask me for mine.
11:23
Oh, yeah. And then he really didn't have a place to shut me down because I engaged in his.
11:30
And at that point in time, two young ladies, missionary, Mormon missionaries, walked up and they had no choice but to listen to my testimony because I gave them the respect.
11:39
She's right. That's right. Yeah, wonderful. Okay, so with regard to Mormonism, so let me just give you a few bullet points that things that are very helpful to know ahead of time.
11:50
One time I was on a plane flying and a Mormon sat next to me and we talked the whole time. I was very young in the faith and I did not understand what the difference was.
11:59
And I was just, it was a very ineffectual conversation because all I could say was, well, that sounds a lot like what
12:05
I believe. You know, I knew that Mormonism was wrong because I had heard that, but I had never studied enough of what they say and what they write to really know the difference.
12:14
Here's a couple of points to recognize. In 1844, June of 1844, just a few months before Joseph Smith died, he preached a funeral for this man whose name was
12:26
Elder King Follett. Mr. Follett died and he went and preached.
12:32
And that sermon is written and recorded. And one of the things that he says in that sermon is that, he says, you suppose that God has always been
12:43
God. I will refute that idea. And he goes on to say, God the Father had a father who also had a father.
12:53
So this is the view of the Mormon, an eternal regression such that there is no end of gods who generate gods.
13:01
Okay? So Mormonism actually is not even a monotheistic religion. It's polytheism.
13:07
So there are, so God the Father was once a man on a planet called
13:12
Kolob. And he probably died and rose like Jesus did on this planet, but exalted to the level of Godhood and came and created this world that we now live in.
13:24
See the difference? So they'll say Jesus is Lord, but the
13:29
Jesus they believe in is actually the spirit brother of Lucifer. Well, because God the
13:35
Father created, his first born was Jesus, his second born was Lucifer.
13:40
Guess what? All of us in a pre -existence are the 6 ,542 ,000 born and all the way down the line, all the people were created in a pre -existence.
13:51
Some rebelled and followed Lucifer and those are fallen angels. The rest of us got to come to this world to be exalted.
13:58
So just as the Father exalted to become God, so we can become
14:04
God. Look at this saying, which is a couplet by one of their prophets. See, Joseph Smith was the prophet, the president of the church.
14:11
After he died, another one comes along. Lorenzo Snow puts it this way. As man is,
14:18
God once was. As God is, man may become.
14:26
God is an exalted being who became God. And you, if you have the priesthood, first of all, the
14:34
Levitical priesthood, which is a lower one, but then when they go on their Mormon missions, they become Melchizedek priests.
14:39
If they then keep all the temple rituals and all the works that they have to do, which includes going into the temple to do secret rites and also baptisms for the dead in the basement, giving certain handshakes, having certain key words to say to the sentinels who stand guard, they then can make it to the celestial kingdom.
15:03
And in the celestial kingdom, they can become gods. And father children, with their eternal wives, it's an eternal marriage situation, they go and create spirit children for a new world that they are gods over, just like God is
15:18
God over this earth. That's actually Mormonism from their sources. Do you really believe in the hell?
15:26
Not per se. There's really three levels. The celestial, which is the highest kingdom, the telestial, which is
15:32
Joseph Smith taking terrestrial and celestial and combining them, which is a middle kingdom, and the bottom level, which is terrestrial.
15:41
So they would think that all of us are probably just gonna go to the middle, the telestial. But no hell. But we won't make it to the celestial.
15:47
And no, hell is only for apostate Mormons, and that's pretty much it. That's pretty much the only way you can get there, to apostatize for Mormons.
15:55
So that's a few things about Mormonism. We've talked about the temple, where they do their secret rites.
16:01
It's a work system. The priesthood, they believe that they have the keys of authority that were lost.
16:09
The major books are the Book of Mormon. You guys are familiar with that. But they also have two other ones that came a little bit later.
16:15
The Pearl of Great Price. Doctrine of Covenant. And Doctrine of Covenants, right. The importance to that is they will accept the
16:22
Bible. But they believe that the Bible has been contaminated. So the Bible is the lowest level of authority.
16:29
If the Book of Mormon has something different than the Bible, the Book of Morning takes precedence.
16:36
And if the Pearl of Great Wisdom is stronger than the Book of Mormon, and then if the Covenants and Doctrines take, and then finally on top is latest revelations from their prophet, which can supersede everything.
16:48
So just because they read something in the Bible and it has to be King James, doesn't mean they'll accept it, because they may have had later things that superseded.
16:58
Yeah. Are there prophets living gods? How do they consider? What do they consider? No, they're not yet.
17:04
They're spokespeople for. For God. God, yeah. You mentioned the
17:09
King James Version. As you're reading through the Book of Mormon, which I've done at one point, you start to notice, this starts to sound familiar.
17:16
Somewhere, I think it's in First or Second Nephi, you get 18 straight chapters of word -for -word
17:21
King James, Book of Isaiah. Just straight plagiarism, complete with all of the same errors and anachronisms that you wouldn't expect to be where they were, based on the
17:33
Book of Mormon is supposed to be America. This, our land, settled by some
17:40
Hebrews that had sailed across in these barges and made it to the New World and settled, and these are the
17:46
American Indians. They're truly descendants from Israel. So that's kind of the view of how they fought each other.
17:54
There were two parties, and the evil ones overcame the good ones and killed off the last one, but before the last one died, he buried these golden plates in the
18:04
Hill Cumorah up in upstate New York, and that's what Joseph Smith later discovers. So it's the record of these ancient people and how
18:11
Jesus actually came to visit America after he finished his work in Jerusalem.
18:17
So that's the message of the Book of Mormon. It's another testament of Jesus Christ, but of course, it's fallacious and completely contradictory to the scripture.
18:28
So where are those golden plates? Yeah, well, the funny thing is he said he ran with them, which, and he was chased and everything.
18:35
They were hundreds of pounds if you had that much gold, but he said that the angel took them back, eventually, but he has all these witnesses that supposedly saw them, and then later, many of those witnesses said, well, we never actually saw them, but we did see them with spiritual eyes.
18:54
That's in 1836, so seven years after the publishing of the book, many of these people leave the Mormon faith and say, well, we never actually saw them.
19:02
They still testify that they believe it's true, but they saw it with spiritual eyes. A little different kind of seeing there.
19:09
Okay, so Mormonism, let's talk just another couple minutes about Mormonism. Has anybody had a conversation with a
19:14
Mormon about their faith, or do you know a Mormon? Do you work with a Mormon? Somebody in our church works with Mormons all the time.
19:21
That's his main business partners. So, anybody?
19:27
Not a lot in New Jersey. You have? Yeah. I have a friend, old friend who went to college.
19:33
What's funny is, before she left, I gave her a Bible to take with her, hoping, and then,
19:40
I guess, through the years of indoctrination at Church of Brigham Young. And she eventually went from Catholicism to thinking that Mormon was the right way, and even in recent writings on Facebook and all, she says, you know,
19:57
I can't wait one day when we'll all be together, and I'm like, ah. Yeah, yeah.
20:03
The thing that makes it, one of the things that makes it so appealing is, from the exterior, they're good people.
20:10
Right. They do good things. And so, for somebody who has no clue of the fallacies in it, it just sounds good.
20:23
Right? And are they family -oriented? Oh, yeah. That's the big appeal. Did they outlaw polygamy?
20:33
I don't know. Yeah, they reversed it in the 1890s. So, the main church, which is the one based out of Salt Lake City, no longer does it, although they still believe in eternal polygamy.
20:44
But that's not for this world any longer. But there are branches, there's sects that broke off from the main that still practice polygamy.
20:51
Did you ever hear about Warren on Jeff's? Yeah, he was one of the fundamentalists, yeah. And supposedly, he was convicted of child molestation?
20:57
Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, Joseph Smith, I mean, of his 31 brides, some of them were as young as 13.
21:05
And in one case, there was two sisters. So, I mean, yeah, they're just getting it from the main guy.
21:13
All right, so let's move on to another encounter that you might have had apologetically. Anybody had a conversation or talks from someone of a different religion, different worldview listed here that we could talk about?
21:26
From the Jehovah's, I had encounters with Jehovah's Witnesses. Okay. They tried to convince me that Jesus Christ was a
21:32
God. And I told them, there's no indefinite article in Greek. Right. Jesus was
21:39
God. Right. Yep, so you're talking about John 1 .1. Okay, let's talk just for a few minutes about Jehovah's Witness.
21:45
How many of you had Jehovah's Witness knock on your door? All of us, right? How many of you have actually had conversations with them?
21:53
Great. Anybody just slam the door right in their face? Yeah. You've been tempted to do it at least, but.
22:03
I always just love when the Jehovah's Witness come around. Remember Andrew Rappaport's story about how he got blacklisted last year at the
22:09
Apologetics Conference? He used to just go out and talk to them and follow them around to the neighbor's house and just have these long conversations to the point where they stopped coming.
22:18
But it's fun to talk to Jehovah's Witnesses. I think apologetics is fun in general. What is the core difference, or what is the
22:25
Jehovah's Witness faith? They believe, well, number one, that Jesus isn't
22:31
God. There you go. And that there are only 144 ,000 that can attain salvation.
22:37
I don't know if they still believe it. Yeah, well, they have that highest rank. Because now there are millions.
22:43
So that doesn't work as well nowadays. But okay, so the main idea is Arianism.
22:49
Right. So back in the day, Athanasius versus Arius. Athanasius preaching the
22:54
Trinity, teaching that God has eternally existed as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Then Arius, back in the 300s, saying, no,
23:03
Jesus is a creation from the Father. Homoiosios, not homo -sios.
23:09
Okay, yeah. So the difference there, there was an argument over one iota. One iota. Of same substance, or of like substance.
23:18
So Athanasius was saying, Jesus is the same substance as the Father. He is the one true
23:24
God. But Arius was saying, he's like God. He's similar. He comes from God as a creation from God.
23:30
So God, the Father, made a God. To be a God. So that's where you get that indefinite article.
23:37
A God. Whose witness is a rebirth of Arianism. That's exactly what
23:42
I'm saying, yeah. So this is in the 1800s, no, 1900s. Partway through, kind of during the flames of the second
23:51
Great Awakening, and you have all these cults being born. Same time as Mormonism. This one springs up.
23:57
It's just a rebirth of Arianism. It's much simpler. Mormonism is much more interesting to study. When you get to see all of the layers of belief that they have, and how they came to it, and their history, very interesting.
24:09
Jehovah's Witnesses is just straight old Arianism. Jesus, is he
24:15
God? No, he's a God. In fact, they'll say he's Michael the Archangel. Wherever you see Michael referred to, that's that same created being that came from God, who then was sent to die for people, which wouldn't make sense for a created being.
24:29
God himself would have to bear the punishment of sin. God would have to come, take our sin away. He can't create a being to punish in the place of mankind.
24:38
So that's Jehovah's Witness theology. Did they believe in a holy man just to die?
24:45
Yeah, it's not a personal spirit. So it's more of the working of God, the energy of God, his extending out, but not a person.
24:53
Of course, the scriptures refer to the Holy Spirit as he. John 14 to 16, he talks about when,
24:58
Jesus says, when I go, I will send him the comforter. He's the advocate. He will lead you into all truth.
25:04
So the scriptures present the Holy Spirit as a person. And he can be quenched, he can be grieved. Yeah, he has emotion, he has will, yeah, yeah.
25:12
All these ministries that he does, it's all personal. But the Jehovah's Witnesses say no on that. Let me just share a couple of things that I've found helpful in talking to Jehovah's Witnesses that they haven't really been good at answering.
25:24
One is, of course, their key verse is Isaiah 43 .10, where Jehovah is speaking, and he says that you are my witnesses, and that there is no
25:34
God but the one God, essentially. But the same language that you have in all from, this is the trial of false gods in Isaiah 40 to 48.
25:43
Jesus picks up on that same language where God says I am who I am, and in the book of John, calls himself the
25:50
I am. So the I am statements of Jesus in the book of John, just go and press them.
25:56
They usually can answer several of them because they've been trained in that. But when you begin to hit them with all 10 or 11
26:02
I am statements, and then break down what he's saying there, for example, John 8 .58,
26:08
make note of that. Before Abraham was born, I am. And the Pharisees wanted to stone him because of that.
26:15
And the reaction of the Pharisees shows they understood what he was saying. He's making himself equal with God. He's claiming to be
26:21
I am. That goes back to Exodus 3 .14, remember that? When Moses is at the burning bush and God speaks, and Moses says, who are you?
26:30
Who should I say sent me to Egypt to let my people go? God says I am who I am.
26:36
So that name of God from which we get Yahweh, and Jehovah's just a transliteration of Yahweh.
26:42
So those statements that Jesus then applies to himself are amazing. Hebrews chapter one also has the same thing where Yahweh is addressed.
26:52
At the end of Hebrews chapter one, the author of Hebrews then applies that to Jesus, not to the
26:58
Father. And Hebrews 1 .8, you have O God, Jesus is referred to as God, and then the
27:04
Father is referred to as God. So both are called God in that text. Of course, John 1 .1
27:10
is where the debate always starts, right, because they'll show you in the beginning was the Word, the
27:15
Word was with God, and the Word was a God. Now, if you just look at the
27:20
Greek, and you're not a student of Greek, they might be able to convince you that there shouldn't be a definite article there.
27:27
But, you know, if you really, there's a Granville Sharp construction there, you don't need to get into all that. What I found to be the best thing to do is to say that, all right, let's keep reading the prologue to John.
27:37
And when you get to the last verse of the prologue to John, verse 18, the same construction happens referring to the
27:44
Father. So unless you're going to call the Father a God, then you need to be consistent and say that this is calling the
27:50
Son God. So John 1 is a good place to go. We'll have to spend more time on that to really sharpen up, but Hebrews 1,
27:59
John 1, Isaiah 43, 10, and then learn the I am statements of Jesus if you really want to go there with them.
28:06
Or, the other option, just slam the door in their face. I said, remember that I just told them they had the wrong study tools.
28:15
Yeah, that's true, yeah. I said, you're wrong, you have the wrong tools.
28:21
Exactly, yeah. The New World Translation is just, it's a mockery of Greek scholarship. The work wasn't done by Greek scholars, it's done by people who want to read in their theology to the text.
28:31
I said, we're born again Christians and we believe what the Bible says about the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and they go, there's nothing left.
28:39
Nothing left to say. Just slam the door in our face. Yeah. But they're not going to have more.
28:46
Yeah. Shoot, they love you a lot. Yeah. We're out of here.
28:51
Okay, let's talk about another one. Which other one of these should we spend a few minutes on? Question, what is
29:01
Seventh Day Adventistism? Oh, this is so interesting. Okay, so Seventh Day Adventism.
29:10
Once again, restoration movement of the 1840s, around there. A man named
29:16
William Miller pops up and prophesies that Jesus is coming back in 1844.
29:23
When he doesn't come back in 1844, William Miller just descends into obscurity.
29:29
You'd think this thing is over, right? This big movement, you know, all these tracks and publications. Jesus is coming back.
29:36
You'd think it's over. Ellen White. But no. Years later, I think 1860s, along comes
29:41
Ellen White. And she says, oh no, no. William Miller was right. Jesus came back in 1844, only he didn't come back in the body.
29:49
He stepped from the outer temple in the heavenlies into the inner holy of holies in order to now begin his investigative judgment.
30:01
And so now he's in a different place. He's come back in a spiritual sense, and now he's giving this investigative judgment.
30:08
So Ellen White becomes the authority and the lens that they use to interpret the scriptures. But once again, it's an apocalyptic, end of the world movement that's based on the writings of Ellen White and her followers.
30:20
So that then grows. And to this day, it's a huge movement. I mean, did you know that we almost had a Seventh -day
30:26
Adventist president? Ben Carson. Is he a Seventh -day
30:31
Adventist? Absolutely, he's a Seventh -day Adventist. I thought he was a Christian. I mean, I thought he was a father. Some of the
30:37
Seventh -day Adventists have moved a little away from their doctrine, so you don't know where he personally stands. I love
30:42
Ben Carson in terms of how he's teaching everything, but, and his worldview and what he stands for.
30:48
But he's never said he's rejected any of those teachings. He's never renounced
30:53
Ellen White. You know, he still identifies himself as a Seventh -day Adventist, so yeah.
31:01
Yep, so it's a lens. Some of the problems with Seventh -day Adventism to be careful with is, number one is this devotion to Ellen White.
31:09
I think a false prophetess, I think anybody who's devoted to a false prophetess is in danger.
31:16
So you could still be saved if you're a Seventh -day Adventist if you're holding to the doctrines of grace, you know, of Christ and him dying and rising.
31:24
But there's danger down that road when you're following Ellen White. And she becomes the lens through which they read everything.
31:31
So it skews all of their reading. They read her so often. That's one thing. Did you have Christian scientists hold to Mary Baker?
31:38
Yes. With the same reverence. They would have, in their tradition, been very, very judgmental of somebody who did not worship on the
31:50
Sabbath. Exactly. They somewhat deluded their pragmatism in that regard, but they would have been incredibly judgmental of somebody who did not.
32:01
It would have been the loss of all opportunity for salvation. Yeah. And in their official theology, that's still what they believe.
32:09
Someone would have, it's an exclusivist thing. They would have to become. You know what's interesting, too? I heard somebody talking about keeping the
32:15
Sabbath. And he said, well, they don't understand when the
32:21
Jews kept the Sabbath. It was, this was after the return from Babylon when they really, you know,
32:29
I guess, became, like, fundamental. Yeah. Like, they had all these laws about keeping the
32:36
Sabbath. And he said, you could be stoned if you didn't keep it.
32:42
And so, if you're going to keep the Sabbath, you have to keep, like, all these millions of, not millions, but all these little rules and things.
32:50
You can't. That's where the power of the Pharisees came from. Yeah, you can't move, you can't sit on the ground, you can't pull out gray hair, you can't look in the mirror.
32:59
Just all kinds of, like, really weird things. And like you said, you better do the penalties, too. Yeah, and he said, so people don't realize when you keep the
33:08
Sabbath, it involves a whole lot more. All right, then, let me just push back a little bit. We all agree in theology, but why don't we keep the
33:16
Sabbath? Didn't Jesus say, I didn't come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it? So, he didn't abolish the
33:21
Sabbath, fulfilled it. Why don't we worship on Saturdays? Because he rose on a
33:27
Sunday. So, why should we worship on Sundays? Just because he rose on Sunday. Yep.
33:40
The curia hemena, the Lord's Day, Revelation 1, 9 and 10. And the first day of the week, in the end of 1
33:47
Corinthians, it says, take up your offering and set it aside for the first day of the week. Good, so you have that.
33:54
I think the key text is in Hebrews, the third, fourth chapter, where it talks about the
34:00
Sabbath is a picture of our rest in Christ. He who stops working to earn salvation.
34:09
The person who no longer thinks that they can do enough, be good enough, but begins to rest in Christ.
34:15
And that Christ becomes our Sabbath. Christ is the fulfillment of the law.
34:21
So, now we are keeping the Sabbath in Christ. We are Sabbath keepers because we have come to rest from all of our work in the person of Jesus Christ, who accomplished the work for us.
34:31
He kept the law perfectly, obeying at every point. Why did Jesus not die as a baby for the sins of the world?
34:40
Because he had to keep the law. Very good. He had to grow up and live as a perfect and righteous man, as representative
34:46
Israel, representative man. And then, having kept the law perfectly, he is substituted on the cross for sinners like us, who couldn't keep
34:56
Sabbath, who couldn't keep any of the law. So, Jesus is our Sabbath keeper, and we keep the
35:01
Sabbath in him. Our rest, our Sabbath rest, is trusting Christ. And then again, you see that throughout the
35:09
New Testament, there's no longer any repeats of those. All other of the 10 commandments are repeated in the New Testament, but Jesus, in the
35:15
Gospel, says nothing but, not bad things to say about the Sabbath, but things that show that he's not under it.
35:23
Man is not made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath for man. Him healing on the
35:28
Sabbath, and all these ways that he showed that there's a change in dispensation. Things change with Jesus, so that's why.
35:34
What was the change in focus? The Pharisees were focused on the rules and regulations, and the spirit of the
35:39
Sabbath. Very good, and the Jews are still doing it. That's right. I mean, it's kind of funny, because now that Ocean Grove, New Jersey, which was a
35:49
Methodist camp, used to close the roads on Sundays.
35:54
There was a chain that went across the entrance to the camp, and you walked around, you didn't do anything, but when it became a part of Neptune Township, because it was part of the township, they couldn't do that anymore.
36:06
The Orthodox Jews, or the Reform Jews, are still doing the same thing. We designed a mikveh.
36:12
Which are the ceremonial pools for cleansing. Part of the discussion was certain things that could and could not go into the building.
36:24
And one of the things was, it was used on the Sabbath that they couldn't create.
36:31
That was the big thing, was work, was creation, so therefore they couldn't create.
36:36
So they couldn't create light by turning on a light switch. The effort that it would take to turn on the light switch was creating.
36:45
So the whole discussion centered around how are you going to do this on the Sabbath? So the choices were to put timers on the lights so that they came on automatically, and I, or a
36:55
Gentile, to come and turn the light switches on for you. Wow. What a trap.
37:01
Oh, absolutely. They were focused on that. They were absolutely focused on the rules and regulations, as opposed to the spirit of what they were doing.
37:09
Wow. Just like the Pharisees. Which one, the timer or the Christian? The timers.
37:17
That's what I thought. Timed, yeah. They were cheaper. Excuse me, less expensive.
37:25
Less expensive. Okay, so we only have a few more minutes. Should we try to just quickly cover one more?
37:31
I gave you the bullet points that, as I've run across some of these groups, that I've found has been very helpful to know.
37:37
So you can't tell a lot from bullet points, but ask me if you have questions later, and we'll keep on talking. Could you give a brief overview of liberation theology?
37:44
Yeah, so liberation theology. I'm glad you went with that one, because I feel like that, a little bit hand -in -hand with secular humanism in our day, that one is on the rise.
37:54
Very many people claim to be Christians who are actually following liberation theology.
38:01
And the idea of liberation theology is that Jesus came to free people from oppressive societal structures, okay?
38:15
Oppressive governments. Men in a patriarchal society who don't give women the opportunities that they need.
38:24
Problems like racism and sexism and all of the isms. This is the focus of liberation theology, to the point where they say that that is the reason why
38:34
Jesus came. Now, it's kind of the opposite of the gospel, because the gospel says that I'm personally responsible.
38:42
I'm a sinner, and my problem is me. I need a savior to die for me.
38:48
And liberation comes in and says, no, this isn't the problem. You're the victim. Jesus came to set you free.
38:57
Now stand up for your rights, and let's have a revolution. That's liberation theology.
39:02
So that's why you have Jeremiah Wright with Black Liberation Theology, Barack Obama's pastor in Chicago when he was running for election, saying, not
39:11
God bless America, God damn America. That's his sermon. The whole sermon is about politics, and you say, wait, where's
39:18
Christ in this? Oh, well, Christ is the revolutionary who taught us to do this, because Christ overturned structures.
39:23
That's the thinking of liberation theology. So it came through the Catholic Church in Latin America, and then has come up into North America over the last couple hundred years.
39:36
And it's come in waves, and there's always remaking of it. I ran into it in the city a lot, because inner cities are a place of oppression, right, where the police are to blame, not the people who commit crimes.
39:49
And so there was a group there called The Simple Way led by Shane Claiborne, and that whole emerging church movement was based a quarter of a mile from our church.
39:58
We were preaching the gospel, they were preaching the social gospel, liberation theology. So that's kind of, does that help?
40:05
Well, you can see how movement like Black Lives Matter could embrace something like that.
40:11
Perfect example of it. The Christians in Black Lives Matter are following a liberation brand of Christianity, which is really no
40:18
Christianity at all. Now, there can be liberation in a society, and Christians should advocate against true injustices, right, and I would say the biggest one in America is abortion, where innocent babies are being slaughtered, but groups that are into Black Lives Matter, like the
40:34
NAACP, are pro -abortion. I mean, it's like the most twisted thinking that you could have.
40:43
So in any case, that's liberation theology. We're out of time.
40:49
So the notes are here. This class, I loved it. We can do it again. We could do, instead of Apologetics 101, we'll do 201.
40:56
Maybe in the fall or some other time. Three weeks is too short. Yeah, I mean, Apologetics, all I wanted to do in this class was to whet your appetite to study more, because the more equipped you are in knowing what other people believe, the better chance you have to actually talk in a way that's going to make a difference.
41:13
Instead of just talking past each other, they'll redefine terms, and you might be saying the same thing, but meaning something completely different.
41:20
So to begin to become acquainted, and we'll just grow in Apologetics. So in closing, down here at the bottom, we could have gotten into all these issues as well, which are also apologetic in nature, things that you discussed by looking at what the
41:34
Bible actually says. But notice at the very bottom, I gave you some of my favorite apologetic websites.
41:40
I would encourage you to listen to some of these podcasts from time to time. Al Mohler's Daily Briefing was great.
41:48
It's only about 10 minutes, but he gives you worldview issues there. I would, just everybody who was interested enough to come to this class,
41:55
I think you would like listening to the Daily Briefing. So go to almohler .com, and just every day, he puts out some apologetic information about the worldview clash that's happening in our culture today.
42:08
So there's other ones that I like on there as well. You know what would be good for a follow -up? How some of the cults redefine key terms that we, you know, have excelled, but find some of the key terms that they redefine, and you know, that would be good for us.
42:24
You're right. Yeah, the redefinition of terms is the core. Let's pray. Father, thank you so much for this class.
42:29
I pray that it would only spur us on to more love and good deeds. I pray that in our study, we would be diligent, because there are truly millions of people around us in this big metro area, but all around this country, who are deceived into wrong thinking, starting with the presupposition of their own logic, their own intelligence, their own feelings.
42:51
Lord, yet we have your word. So I pray that we would be strong to know your word, and to be willing to engage and defend the gospel in a godless culture, in Jesus' name.
43:02
Amen. Great job, guys. Thank you. Hey, all right, how are you? Good thanks. Thank you.