Norman Geisler's Sermon

Opening Remarks and the Upcoming Travel Schedule

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll-free across the United States. It's one eight seven seven seven five. Three three three four one and now with today's topic.

Here is James white.

And welcome to the dividing line an unusual time Thursday morning once again having to shift the schedule due to teaching and of course tomorrow the the trip begins and That means Saturday evening first opportunity to meet some of you at Trinity Fellowship Church, I posted a new listing from Chris Arnzen via Carla of my trip and So you can get the information there and look forward to meeting all of you on the East Coast during the next couple.

Well about eight days of speaking ten days of travel, but there's always a day at the beginning and day at the end. So that's how that's what's coming up looking forward that Just a real quick thing before you get back to well your phone calls at eight seven seven seven five three three three four one or to the Norman Geisler sermon is I haven't really paid any much attention to it.

I'm thankful that Turretin fan has pointed out the obvious, but evidently lots of folks listen very carefully, but with massive blinders on to almost everything that I say and Sunday morning Opened up the synoptic of the God synoptic synopsis of the synoptic Gospels and We were in the section that's a parallel between Luke and Matthew Regarding the statement of Jesus over Jerusalem, and so I took the time to talk about Matthew 23 37 the entire context of Matthew the abuse of Matthew by people like Norman Geisler and and others and Dave hunt and you just name him George Bryson.

They're all in that group so anyway, I at the beginning of Just a couple minutes in Made a brief reference To some background. I'm attempting to explain to the class some of the background of current New Testament studies.

And current past 50 years in New Testament studies and the fact that there is material Especially in the Gospel of Matthew that is considered to be embarrassing by many in the New Testament theology area because it's considered to be Antisemitic it says bad things about the Jews and I mentioned the story for example of the passion film and editing out the Subtitling under the statement of the Jews his blood be upon us and upon our children forever and and things like that so I was just giving some background as to how Matthew 23 is viewed.

Matthew 23 is very harsh language and Just just give us a background stuff. I was not addressing Roman Catholicism. I Was not attempting to create an argument about Roman Catholicism. I was not arguing that Roman Catholicism is a bad bad thing based upon anything I said here, but you would not believe Matthew Bellisario and I guess there's now a thread on the Catholic answers website of the Forums all about How terrible I am that I'm accusing the Catholics of having been involved with the death camps.

All I did Look in 1940 in Germany if you were from northern Germany, what were you? You were a Lutheran if you were from southern Germany. What were you you were a Catholic? That's all I mean there were.

I even specifically said the the reason that there is this especially amongst German theologians tremendous amount of guilt is The Lutheran and Catholic involvement of what happened in Germany this isn't even a disputable thing.

Now isn't it amazing I can sit here and and we can go through. Remember we spent weeks going through my debates with Patrick Madrid point by point. Couple weeks going through the Bible answer man non-debate with Jimmy Akin going through point by point exegetical point by exegetical point these folks ever.

Attempt to engage the original language text or anything like that. No silent is can be but When we're not even talking about Roman Catholicism. Oh, I can argue that point. Oh, I found something I can argue against.

It's amazing so I cued this up. Just so we can hear what I actually said. Here's here's the whole thing. Just just a couple moments from the Sunday school class not a debate the Sunday school class and the subject Matthew 23 37 it's abused by Arminians but the Catholics are listening and thought they could come up with something to beat me over the head with and.

It's just another illustration of why we sit here. Does the phone ring does these people call in to demonstrate where I'm wrong. No. They don't want to do that for some odd reason. But they will hide behind their typewriters.

Remember typewriters. I stated myself. And their keyboards. Well, it's typewriter connected to a computer that becomes a keyboard right and they will snipe and spit and stuff like that. But will they debate?

Oh, no, no, no. No. No, here's here's what I said. Matthew chapter 23 is probably one of the harshest texts in all the New Testament. This is not a politically correct text in today's Theological world it's an embarrassing text because since and you again need to understand this since World War two and especially because of What happened in the Holocaust and the German Lutheran and German Catholic?

Cooperation with that. It has been rightly said that a large portion of the guards at Buchenwald and Auschwitz were practicing Catholics. There because of that there's been a backlash over the past 60 years to wear.

Anything in the New Testament remember what happened with the the passion film now again? We we criticized the passion film roundly here even before it came out. Some of you may recall that but remember one thing that happened right toward the end.

Was they took out? The citation. Actually all they did is they just took out the foot the the What do you call it on the screen. Subtitling thank you because remember they had them speaking in Aramaic and.

So they were translating what was being said and when the Jews say according to Matthew Let his blood be upon us upon our children forever. Well before the film came out. They had that translated, and I don't know did did you see it?

Follow enough to be able to know what they're saying you could even I knew enough to be able to tell what they were saying. You could you could understand it in Aramaic, but they took out the subtitling because the Jewish people who had viewed it in pre-release were just so Horrendously offended and that text in Matthew has been blamed for the that's that's why the holocaust took place.

That's what created Hitler blah blah blah blah blah blah. That's what created the Crusades and you know the misuse this text has. Of course they don't call it the misuse of the text. They just blame it on the text so embarrassing Bad wrong can't can't believe that scripture can't believe that that that that is in the Bible Matthew was a bad man Etc etc.

That's where much of scholarship is today, so there's there was the whole thing I'm talking about the fact that Modern New Testament scholarship embarrassed by Matthew and stuff like that and they have to pull that one thing out it reminds me of the You know envoy magazine having to do an entire article out of footnote I Figure if you folks can't touch the main body of what we're doing the 10-foot pole.

Then why don't you get the idea that that you're on the losing side of the truth battle here? Just just amazing to me. It truly truly is. You know I took on Tim Staples Massacre of 1st Corinthians chapter 3 last week.

Why don't why does it somebody Bellisario? Demonstrate the what I'm saying about the Greek text the 1st Corinthians chapter 3 is wrong. How about it Matthew, huh? Why don't you you internet snipers Step up to the plate and do something serious.

This kind of stuff is just just pathetic. That's that's the only term to use a simple Simply pathetic you know what else is pathetic is when you? Have to attack people like turreted fan and say well. He's he's like an Obama press secretary You know and stuff like that.

Maybe you haven't figured this out, but The people who Contribute to the blog we do not we're not clones of one another these these guys are not paid. They are volunteers. They we actually differ with one another on things that we say It's just grossly disrespectful the way that people refer to Turreted fan and others in the way that we know when they when they would take the time to point out That you know Bellisario Calls me names attacks me personally identifies me as a bigot for having talked about the history of World War two I guess and Yet, he doesn't even know what I'm talking about which demonstrates that he is so Prejudiced that actually he's the one who fits the dictionary definition of the term bigots, and if you do that Then all of a sudden you attack him.

It's just it's just amazing you see this on the internet all the time. There is so little decent behavior on on the internet that it's it happens all the time, but there's just an example of You know we're not gonna We can't really deal with what you're saying on the main the main and important thing so well We'll find something somewhere, and that's what we'll use as our club every all the groups do it I could give you examples where Muslims have done it and Mormons have done it Jehovah's Witnesses done at Roman Catholics that That is the problem when you're on the wrong side of the truth war in essence is you just you just can't deal with it so with that having been said we continue on with the Norman Geisler sermon from It was 2001 or 2002.

I think it's 2001 Believe is the Fort Lauderdale Calvary Chapel actually if I'm recalling correctly, but it's so why I'm not a five-point Calvinist and Obviously many of the same issues that Come up in chosen, but free respond to in the Potter's freedom but people find it useful when we take the time to take apart these statements point by point and demonstrate that even folks with big names and Have done good work in other areas for some reason When it comes to that one point of man's will and man's control of salvation All that good work done in other areas goes flying out the window equivocation becomes the name of the game and Misrepresentation becomes the result.

Regeneration, Spiritual Death, and the Image of God

So let's continue on where we left off with. Dr. Norman Geisler Why he's not a five-point Calvinist. I bet nowhere in the New Testament.

Everywhere, I find the opposite that we believe in order to receive salvation we do not receive salvation in order to believe as.

You may recall unless you didn't listen to the last program, which I only got blogged this morning anyways. We had pointed out that dr. Geisler is engaging in equivocation. That is he is identifying Regeneration and salvation as the same thing in different contexts thereby confusing and misrepresenting the Reformed position that regeneration is Something that is necessary so that one might have Befreed from the tyranny and slavery of sin and Might do what is good and proper in God's sight and that repentance and faith are things that are good and proper in God's sight and.

Again we we are listening carefully will dr. Geisler address those key biblical texts which are so supportive of the Reformed position and and so impossible to interpret in the synergistic Semi-pelagian Arminian whatever all the groups you want to throw into synergism.

They all have slight differences from one another but His Arminian moderate Calvinism Moderate Calvinism ie Arminian ism same thing pretty much. Is he gonna address those texts? And give us a meaningful exegesis.

Well, we'll keep listening in and you keep a note, you know, if you're taking notes. So will dr. Geisler address those texts which say that the natural man is not capable of doing what is pleasing God cannot submit himself to the law of God.

How about the nature of faith as a gift? What about man's? Deadness and sin and his what Jesus his own statement that no one is able to come to me unless the Father sent me draws him. Will he explain those things?

So, well, how do you explain the fact that they're dead? The Bible says that we're dead in trespass and sins. Dead can be understood two ways. Annihilation. Or separation. Now we know in the Bible death is not understood as annihilation that you're totally Taken right out of existence as it were death in the Bible means separation.

The Prophet said your sins have separated you from your God. Death brings a wall of separation when we die. What happens the soul separates from the body? Absent from the body present with the Lord 2nd Corinthians 5 is far better to depart and be with Christ Philippians 1 23.

Or in a book of Genesis it says She was died. Her soul was in the process of departing for she died. So death is understood in the Bible as separation not annihilation. Oh.

Hold on just a second here. We just heard yet another excellent example of How you can? Speak the truth, but put it in the wrong context to make it an untruth because what was just presented was one of the ways that the Bible refers to physical death is to discuss the concept of separation of That spiritual element of man from the physical body and that is true.

But then what happens is you get this leap? to the conclusion that this is what the Bible always says about death and. Was that substantiated by any of the texts that were cited or the commentary thereon?

Well, of course not. Wasn't even addressed. It wasn't even an attempt to to build that bridge and say that well since there's these texts that talk about Physical death in this way. That means all the talk of the text to talk about spiritual death.

Have the same meaning that just means a separation from God. It doesn't follow that the person is actually incapable of doing certain things even though as We'll see these texts that talk about spiritual death are then always connected to this this inability is incapacity to do what is right before God as as a result and so.

Once again, if you could just stop speakers, you know and have a pause button and analyze the argument. And go well, okay, maybe but what you're you know, the application seems to involve a real leap here real jump.

In in logic that doesn't necessarily follow but for all practical purposes the five-point Calvinist understands it.

As spiritual annihilation, that's untrue. It's simply untrue. Dr. Geisler has been corrected on this. He refuses to accept correction. But it is a misrepresentation and a demonstration that his tradition overrides simple truthfulness in representation of the Reformed position, so we're not.

Spiritually. There in any sense of the term we can't even understand the message or receive the message. And so God has to give life where we were totally as it were Departed from him.

Well, you know when the Bible utilizes language such as the valley of the dry bones and There you have the picture of the Spirit of God Coming upon those dry bones and they come together to form bodies and and life is brought back to them or the other picture of The the heart of stone being turned into the heart of flesh.

Those are fairly radical pictures. They are biblical pictures. They are prophetic. They are inspired and In nowhere Does that mean that there was? spiritual annihilation. But what it does say is that there is total slavery to sin in light of Jesus's own statements and John 8 where he says he who sins is a slave of sin and When Jesus speaks of this kind of slavery Which by the way if you're going to you know be even trying to accurately represent What reformed people say you're going to allow them to speak with themselves and recognize that the spiritual death of which we speak is intimately connected to this concept of slavery.

Jesus then goes on to say that because they are slaves to sin that they are not able to hear. They are not able to hear the Word of God. They are not able to do things They have they have resultant inabilities due to the depth of their spiritual death.

That is lack of spiritual life. And yes, it does involve a disconnectedness a separation from God. But it also then has an impact an impact upon the mind there their foolish minds become darkened their speculations their reasonings are in error and The will as well because the will acts upon the desires presented to it and Since that person has fallen and is separated from God then the desires that are presented the will Do not include godly desires.

Now all of this of course goes against the libertarianism of Dr. Geisser and many others William Lane Craig all very much dedicated to this Unbiblical concept of libertarianism, which they then use to overthrow meaningful biblical exegesis, but The reality is that we believe that man's soul man's spirit Remains fully intact however fully under the condemnation of sin fully under the sway of sin slavery of sin.

And as Paul himself said those who according the flesh cannot please God. Those according the flesh cannot submit themselves law of God. They cannot please God. This is an inability as Jesus himself said they are unable To come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them so these are biblical statements of inability, but The other side will always speak of hypothetical capacities based upon exhortations.

And so they have to overthrow the plane on the basis of the hypothetical this is the the nature of synergistic Arminian.

Eisegesis rather than exegesis know. The Bible says that death is Separation from God and that we are separated as being still in his image and likeness. In Genesis 9 6 It says that even unsafe people are still in the image of God.

Now, of course Reformed people do not say.

That man has lost the image of God and I remember this is this this sermon is given after The Potter's Freedom has been published and I specifically in the Potter's Freedom corrected. Dr. Geisler's error at this point.

But as I've said many times, dr Geisler does not believe that anyone younger than him can point out that he has made an error. And I do not believe that dr Geisler has ever read the Potter's Freedom the appendix found to in the second edition of Chosen but free was done by his students.

Undergraduate students at that. I do not believe that. Dr. Geisler would believe I think from his perspective. It would be demeaning and inappropriate for him to even deign the existence of my book with The time it would take for him to read it.

So That's why I hope I never get in the position where I am so wedded to a tradition that I I Just keep repeating a particular falsehood just simply for the sake of repeating a particular falsehood now.

Obviously, you know Roman Catholics and Muslims and others when we have a disagreement take that and say ah, but but you keep repeating this well, there's a difference between A conclusion that I've come to about an error in Islam.

And a simple continued misrepresentation. That's just factually wrong. We do not believe that the Imago Dei is annihilated wiped out. What Geisler is doing is he associates the Imago Dei the image of God with libertarianism.

If you cannot Make autonomous free will choices, then you don't have the image of God. Therefore If you deny Autonomy the autonomy of the human will you must be denying that man continues to exist in the image of God.

We believe the image of God is marred. The image of God has been lessened by sin obviously. But that does not mean that it has been destroyed and annihilated. Genesis 127 says God created man in his own image.

Yes, man fell. Yes. He's sin. Yes, he's separated from God, but he's separated from God. He still had God's image because after the flood Noah was told Whoever sheds man's blood by man shall his blood be shed for in the image of God made he him.

In other words don't kill an unsaved person because they're still in the image of God. James 3 9 says it's wrong to curse.

Another human being yes, I know all this is irrelevant. It's a straw man, but again I play all of it so you can just see well. You know how much time is actually spent doing serious exegesis of relevant text rather than just simply beating on a dead horse.

That isn't actually relevant and yet it might seem to impress the ignorant person who? Has never actually talked to someone who is reformed and therefore just figures well if you know if Norman Geisler has done such good work on The resurrection or the the background of the Bible isn't like that.

Then he he would have to be correct about these things to see that's unfortunately How it functions and I've seen this in the eyes of people. I might be speaking someplace and and all sudden someone gets the idea that something I just said sounds Calvinistic and They'll say something like well.

Well. That's what a Calvinist would say. Well. Yes, ma 'am. I'm a reformed Baptist. I am a Calvinist and you just see all this stuff flooding into their mind. That is it's it's prejudice. It's ignorance, but that's where it's come from and Christians shouldn't have that happening, but it does happen a lot because they're made in the image of God.

So the image of God is effaced in fallen man. But it's not erased for all practical purposes. The five-point Calvinist says the image of God is Erased. Fault. It's not there. You're so dead, but there's no capacity left there to understand or receive the message of God's grace and.

As I said last time when we talk about the first first Corinthians chapter 2 Where they do not understand the things the Spirit of God we're talking about spiritual apprehension which results in Obedience which results in a desire to do what is right before God.

And that is true. While the unregenerate man can understand the facts understand the the statements of the Bible concerning what the gospel is in the sense of being able to then embrace that and to Turn from his sin to free himself from slavery.

Evidently what dr. Geisler believes is that slaves can simply choose to be free. They can simply at any point in time cease being slaves now. That may be his understanding of Slavery, but that's not any slaves understanding of slavery.

To get the illustration even more clearly.

Let's look at Genesis chapter 3. In Genesis chapter 3 in the Old Testament Adam and Eve sinned and According to the Bible therefore they became dead in trespasses and sins. Seems to me that the best way to understand the Bible is by the Bible.

Now if the moment Adam took the forbidden Fruit someone said it wasn't the apple on the tree. It was the pear on the ground that got us in trouble. Well the pear on the ground Adam and Eve Both partook of the forbidden fruit.

In chapter 2 it said of every tree of the garden you may freely. But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat thereof for in the day you either of you shall surely die. Now when Adam took the forbidden fruit and Eve took it they died.

They were spiritually dead now. Here's what a spiritual dead person can do. Genesis chapter 3 Verse 9. They had already taken it and the Lord God called Adam and said to him. Where are you? So he said I heard your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked and I hid myself.

There were several important things about that. Even though Adam was spiritually dead he could still hear God. Notice he could still understand he understood what God was saying. Wow.

It is difficult sometimes to but you know what you know who uses the same kind of of Argumentation is Greg Stafford. I have he's put a chapter in Is the new edition of defending Jehovah's Witnesses going after me on the subject of Calvinism and when.

You know when I had the time to get around to it I will. But the same kind of argumentation you have this unique situation where God walks with the first parents and he speaks to them and Thereby by extension you go well that means that spiritually dead people can understand anything God has to say and they can.

They can hear God speaking, and you know this. So this spiritual death thing isn't all that majorly good deal. Actually, I would like to point out. What does Adam do first of all they hide themselves?

They do not seek after God. God has to find them and they have become Humiliated and fearful of their nakedness they recognize their nakedness and Adam's gonna blame somebody else for his sin. There's all sorts of things we can derive from the Adam and Eve story.

But to make that normative in the sense that well. It means everybody can hear God and everybody understand everything the Bible says is well again here's another wonderful example of what happens when a philosopher tries to be an exegete and The result is always a mess.

So even in our fallen state the image of God is still in us. Our ability to hear God is still there. Our ability to Respond to God is still there both positively and negatively. Respond in rejecting it or respond in accepting it.

In fact in Romans chapter 1 verse 19 It tells us that unsafe people Can understand and perceive the truth of God. Take a look at that in Romans chapter 1. Beginning with verse 18. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven.

Against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth they know it. But they're holding it down now. Notice verse 19. Because what may be known of God is manifest in them. For God has shown it to them since the creation of the world.

His invisible attributes are. What are the next two words? Clearly seen. Unsaved people who are dead and trespass and sins can clearly see the truth of God revealed in general revelation and.

No one is going to argue That mankind has clearly perceived and clearly seen the Attributes of God which are specifically revealed that is his divine power and and and Godhead in the King James Version.

But what is the assertion of Paul and as a result every single one of them suppress that knowledge? They hold down that knowledge know what dr. Geisler would like to tell us is but they can choose not to that's Where dr. Geisler becomes an isogete rather than an exegete, but we need to take our break and come back with dr Geisler sermon and the continued interaction thereof on the basis of the biblical text here on the dividing line.

We'll be right back.

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Why the Five-Point Calvinist Is Misrepresented

And welcome back to the dividing line. We are making Calvinists squirm in their seats and and go. No way I could. I Read over. I saw you reaching for the microphone go. He's using that. Well, we're just.

Just remember when the blood pressure starts rising yes. You know when when chosen free came out. First thought across my mind was all the confusion. This is good cause for people and how many people are gonna be that?

You know are misled and misdirected and and Poisoned to to the wonderful truths of God's sovereignty and grace and cause to be. You know remain biblically illiterate basically and and so yeah, you know I worked hard on that book, but you know now that it's been almost a decade.

Coming up on a decade. And I see all of the good that has come. How many how many people today are Reformed and they are firmly rooted because they came to it through that controversy. They came to it because they they read Geisler and all sudden I start going to wait a minute wait wait wait a minute that.

Doesn't sound right that why is he using completely different standards of biblical interpretation for this subject than he uses elsewhere. And then they they read the potter's freedom, and they go whoa oh now I see there's talk about a contrast in how you handle the text of scripture and as a result.

They're more firmly grounded. How many of those? And I you know I wish I had finished posting all of them. I should Maybe give it to somebody else to put into a file or something like that. It's it takes time.

Those 25th anniversary notes that people were sending in how many of them had to do with this subject that they were Reading Geisler's book, and they saw somebody responded to it. They saw a link they followed it up and the lights come on and.

So on and so forth so and one thing led to another. I think this rolled into the Bryson debate the that took place which rolled into The the BAM debate with you Hank and George Bryson and I can't tell you how many emails how many phone calls I've gotten from people who were listening to that program and.

That program in and of itself just was a huge wake-up call turning on the lights for them realizing the methodologies behind the different approaches to Scripture and the massive amount of philosophy that really does lead to to supporting the other system.

Well, I we've had people in channel say you know I'm reformed today because I was driving down the road listening to that series Yelling at the radio refute him refute him and when he discovered that there wasn't any reputation forthcoming.

Then it's like then I need to look into this and voila that's true. So, you know just take a few deep breaths as you listen to this, you know. You feel badly for the people sitting in the pews there but you might get a chance to talk to some of them and now they've heard a bad presentation you can provide the the counter the response and Show how to use the text in a proper way and stuff like that.

So Just just take a few deep breaths. But so we have to can we have to press so clear. Is it?

That they are quote without excuse verse 20 without excuse. So whatever the Bible means by dead in sin, it does not mean that they do not perceive the truth.

It does not mean that now notice when we talk about. What it means what they the natural man doesn't know. Or understand. We're talking about spiritual things. What Paul is talking about is the revelation of God's attributes found in the natural Realm, he's not talking about the gospel.

The gospel is foolishness to the unregenerate man. So again more equivocation regeneration salvation equivocation here knows spiritual truths. Well knows the existence of God and suppresses the existence of God.

But the natural revelation does not reveal to you the Trinity or the deity of Christ or Justification by grace through faith alone or any of those types of things. They can't understand what God is saying to them.

Adam understood it even though he was dead. Death doesn't mean Annihilation. It means separation. Death doesn't mean we've been going about ten.