The Falling Away (2 Thessalonians 2:1-3)

So this morning we're gonna be looking at the subject of deconstruction.

Who's familiar with the term deconstruction? You've at least heard of it, half of you. So I've dealt with this a little bit already here at Morris Corner Church.

I preached a sermon I think two months ago titled Universalism and Deconstruction and I think we might have touched on it a little bit last week but most of the time

I've spent talking about it was on the radio and on my podcast so I haven't brought it up a lot here at Morris Corner Church.

So I just want to cover it in this lesson. I'll give you a chance to ask questions a little later on and if we have time there's a video of a very famous pastor who actually praised people who are deconstructing their faith and he said this isn't such a bad thing and it's a name that you all know.

So if we have time we'll look at the video. So what does deconstruction mean?

In this context it refers to a person who over time it's called deconstructing your faith.

Basically the teachings of biblical Christianity that they once affirmed.

Now they don't believe that anymore. They've deconstructed. They've left behind their former beliefs and now they've turned to embrace new beliefs that line up more with the culture.

So really this is called falling away from the faith. So deconstruction is just the new trendy term for it.

So let's turn to 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 and let me just say this.

If somebody is watching online later on who is in the process of deconstructing

I want to help. Honestly I'm for you.

I want people to go to heaven. So even if there is someone who is almost fully deconstructed if you or if they will repent and turn back to faith in Christ this church and any other

Bible believing church will welcome you with open arms. That's our prayer for you that you would turn back to Christ.

So we're not against anyone but we are against false teaching and we must uphold what the

Bible teaches about these things. So I think there's two types of people in local churches. There are the the saints who are being conformed to the image of Christ and then there are people in the visible church who are being conformed to this world.

I think of what Paul said in 2nd Timothy chapter 4 verse 10.

He talked about his partner in ministry Demas. He says Demas has left me.

He has departed because he loved this present world. So you really have to make a decision.

Am I with Christ in the church or am I just gonna follow along with whatever the world's doing? And Demas made his decision.

He didn't just leave Paul. He left the ministry and it sounds like he left maybe the faith altogether.

So maybe even Demas is a first century example of someone who deconstructed.

We don't know all the details. So this is an important subject because people are becoming apostates.

That's sort of the old term for apostasy, falling away from the faith. So if someone deconstructs, they leave behind the beliefs of Bible believing

Christianity. One verse before we get into the second Thessalonians thing. A very sober warning in James 4 for James writes, do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God?

Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world, he makes himself what? An enemy of God.

So deconstruction or apostasy, it's a defection. You're leaving the

Lord's army and you're siding with the enemy. You're siding with the wrong team.

Remember that guy? He was in Afghanistan, that soldier. I don't know if he was a Marine or what he was.

He was in Afghanistan but he snuck away in the middle of the night and he joined the Taliban and he started fighting against the

United States. That's what apostates do. They leave the church. They leave the faith and then they join the other team and now they're fighting against Christ.

So that's what's happening here. Second Thessalonians 2, 1 through 3.

Paul says, now brethren concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to him, we ask you not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled either by spirit or by word or by letter as if from us as though the day of Christ had come.

Let no one deceive you by any means for that day will not come unless the falling away comes first.

So deconstruction is really a falling away. It's apostasy, one who falls away from the faith.

I think this is the clear teaching of the New Testament. As we get closer and closer to the return of Christ, as we approach the end times, we're gonna see a great falling away from the faith.

You can see this in Europe already. All the churches, the cathedrals, they're all empty. Europe was once, you know, we get it, it wasn't really 100 %

Christian or anything, but Europe was a Christian continent and now Bible -believing

Christians in Europe, it's like 2 % or so, you know, it's very small and that's starting to happen here in the

United States. We've seen that, yes. Can we clarify right at the outset here, falling away from the faith.

When you place your faith in Christ, when you are born again, that is an eternal matter.

So I just don't want anyone to be confused that you can be saved and then lose your salvation when you talk about falling away from the faith.

Right. Do you understand my concern? Yeah, so there's two types of Christians, two beliefs out there.

There's people who believe you can never lose your salvation and there's people who think you can lose your salvation.

So we do not believe a person can lose their salvation. However, it looks like people lose their salvation.

That's what it looks like, but that's not what's happening. People who truly leave the faith were never saved to begin with.

It's now becoming evident. First John 2 .19, they went out from us, but they were not of us.

If they were of us, they would have continued with us, but they went out that it might be made manifest that none of them were truly of us.

So if somebody leaves the church and they leave the faith, and I don't believe the gospel anymore, they start teaching a different gospel.

Yeah, they didn't lose their salvation. They were never truly born again in the first place. Yes. Okay, so you see the screen.

Second Thessalonians 2 .3, let no one deceive you by any means for that day, that is the return of Christ, will not come unless the falling away comes first, unless the apostasy comes first.

So the Greek word translated falling away refers to a defection from the faith.

They leave Christianity in order to side with the enemy.

And the enemy is the world, the flesh, and the devil. And there are individuals including pastors of churches that I spoke to you about, men who once professed to believe the true gospel, who once preached the true gospel, now they are fighting against the truth.

They have joined the other, they have joined Satan's army, or so it appears.

So sometimes this will happen, and it's not just pastors who deconstruct. All sorts of people are deconstructing.

And this kind of, I think a turning point in our country was, just my opinion, the

Supreme Court ruling regarding gay marriage back in 2015. People saw the handwriting on the wall.

If I'm gonna be, you know, if I'm gonna be accepted in this culture, if I'm gonna get a promotion at work, if I'm gonna keep my friend, you know,

I'm gonna go along with the world. I see this is the way the culture's headed. I'm just gonna go along with it.

Because they knew if I stand where pretty much everybody stood 40 years ago,

I'll be called names, I won't get promoted, I'll lose friends. So people kind of open the floodgates.

Since 2015, I mean, I wouldn't do this necessarily, but I could give you a long list of names of people who used to attend

Morse Corner Church, have a testimony, and now they're posting rainbow flags on their Facebook page.

Well, how do you explain that? Apostasy. Falling away from the faith.

Deconstruction. That's what it is. So people, some people, when they deconstruct, they become an atheist.

And they just deny any belief in God. But it's becoming more common for people to kind of hold on to some semblance of spirituality.

And they, well, I still believe in Jesus, but I don't believe all that stuff that the church taught, you know.

Now I believe this other stuff. And it's what you're getting from Hollywood, TV, you know, politics, the university.

So they're swapping one set of beliefs for another. But I still believe in God. And this is really just an apostate form of Christianity.

And you know some of the terms. They want to be very tolerant, right? They want to be very inclusive.

Well, but they're not very tolerant towards biblical beliefs, are they? See, that's the one thing they do not tolerate.

Why are they so open and friendly to Buddhism and Islam and all?

You know, they'll be tolerant towards anything and everything except the truth. The one thing they will not tolerate is biblical

Christianity. So what causes people to deconstruct? What are the teachings that people most likely to compromise on or abandon?

Here, it's always the same things. Here's the top three. Jesus is the only way of salvation.

I mean, that's one of the first things to go. I would argue, if you don't believe that, you don't believe the gospel.

Because then there's all these other ways. And then the gospel makes no sense. Why did Jesus have to die on the cross if you can get to heaven all these other ways?

So that's the first thing to go. Usually that Jesus is the only way of salvation. Number two, that's tied in with this idea of universal salvation.

The denial of hell. Okay, so universalism, everyone goes to heaven.

So the first two are, I think, linked together. And then number three, the acceptance of so -called

LGBTQ lifestyles. Throw in abortion support, whatever the establishment in Hollywood are pushing.

So those are typically the issues they want to compromise on. Why? What's the motivation?

Did they believe that 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago? No. Why are they believing that now?

Because that's what the world is really against. Biblical view of marriage.

Jesus is the only way. Only people who believe in Jesus go to heaven. The world hates that with a vengeance.

So those are the most unpopular beliefs. Those are the first things to go. It's siding in with the culture.

Okay, so you can either be a friend of God or a friend of the world. It's their choice. Yes, Stacey.

I was just going to add to your thought earlier about why true

Christianity is the thing that is shunned the most. And it is because it's, or in my eyes, it's convicting.

You can't be tolerant and accepting of something that's going to convict you.

So that's the first thing that goes. Right. Anything that's convicting. Yep. Yeah, because the prevailing attitude is, hey, do what you want.

No judgments. If it feels good, do it. Let people do what they want. Of course, they still have their morality, their twisted form of morality.

They still have the things they're against, but they, again, they just swapped one. You know, today's morality is just yesterday's immorality, really.

Larry. And similarly, it's always been

Satan's, his way to divide and conquer.

And he's getting these things because there are some

Christians that think, well, we don't, shouldn't be so hard on, you know, this way of life.

But what does the Bible say? So they're taking a kind of a softer approach. However, it's dividing up Christianity and churches.

Sure. Because now, you know, with this, this whole deconstruction and heresy thing we've been discussing the last couple of weeks, we're seeing other churches line up or not line up with Scripture.

And so then, okay, now we have to draw the line of separation.

Yeah. To, you know, okay, either you go by what the

Scripture says or you don't. Yeah, I think what churches are doing, again, they see the handwriting on the wall.

They see the way the country's going and they think, well, if I still preach what the

Bible says, that means less people are going to want to come through the front door. So in order to get more people through the door, we'll just compromise on this and this and this.

We'll still believe everything else, but we'll just compromise on these few things to get people through the door. Yeah. But once you open that door of compromise, it never ends.

Because the world doesn't agree with any of it. They are implacable. You cannot satisfy the whole, the elder, and I don't mean to single them out.

They've made this the issue of the day, not me. I just assume never talk about it again.

But they've made this the issue of the day. Next month is completely devoted to pride, gay pride, right?

So they've made this the issue, not us. But you cannot satisfy that crowd.

It'll never be enough unless you fully support everything they're saying.

So don't, don't give an inch or they'll take a mile.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I do want to be clear that this didn't just happen, you know, seven years ago or whatever.

This has been going on for a long time. So, and I am not blaming, you know, one group.

Actually, I stand, I'm more upset with the churches and the pastors more than the average person in the world who's living some life.

Hey, they're unsaved. We want them to be saved. I'm not against, you know, people who are unsaved because I want them to come to Christ.

I'm really against the pastors who are preaching. Read the book of Jeremiah and what

God said about the shepherds of Israel and what they were doing and leading people astray. Yeah.

This, this goes back to the seeker sensitive movement and just kind of get rid of all the churchy stuff, but we'll still preach the gospel.

But then they stopped preaching the gospel too. And then the church became an entertainment, entertainment center.

Yeah. And that was 40 years ago that that movement started if not longer.

So, okay. Yes. All right. I want to talk about judgment and justice a little bit as a retired police officer.

And I think part of the reason why this is such a problem is because we all have gotten away with so many things and never been penalized for them.

The basic problem is that we are all guilty. And so many times, but, and I just saw a crime after crime after crime.

Sometimes I knew who did it, but I couldn't prove it, but I knew they did it, but they got away with it. And we would always just say, and my sergeant, a wise sergeant would say, don't worry, they'll keep doing it.

And one of these times we'll have enough to put them away. There's a biblical truth.

All sin must be judged. That's all the sin that I've done too.

I'm ashamed of it. And I'm sorry that I did it because Jesus had to bear it, but it all must be judged.

Fortunately for me and all people who are truly saved is Jesus took that judgment.

They are on the cross. I was guilty. I should have been nailed. I should have gone to hell, but I don't have to.

Because he did that. And that affects your whole life. And then there's the one that we use all the time.

If we confess our sins, he's faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

We go like that and every day we use it. Confessing. And you know, when we take people to court that were guilty, they plead not guilty.

Or a guy that did say, yeah, I'm guilty. I'll take the penalty. And the judge would say, oh no, no,

I'm not going to accept that for you're guilty. You need to be assigned to court. Yeah, we're all guilty.

Right. Well, here's the difference between a Christian and someone who's deconstructed.

A Christian realizes they have sinned and they do sin. You know, if you say you have no sin, you deceive yourself.

So, but the person who's deconstructed, they have embraced sin.

They promote sin. They're teaching sin in that it's night and day. No Christian I know is saying,

I'm the perfect guy and all you are damned and I'm so righteous because I never do anything wrong.

And it's the self -righteous attitude. I know that's how people want to paint it, but that's not it.

We would all be in hot water. We would all be under condemnation if it wasn't for Christ and the gospel.

But as soon as you get rid of that, get rid of judgment, get rid of hell, then yeah, you've just dropped out.

So people, here's the thing. People are deconstructing so they can kind of fit in with what everyone else is doing.

So the unpopular Christian beliefs, they go. People are sheep, okay?

People are sheep. They're either going to follow the Good Shepherd or they're just going to follow the pack or the herd or whatever you call it.

A flock, yes. Well, I think of the flock as, you know, the church, but the lost sheep, they're just kind of out wandering.

Okay, so any questions or comments from someone who hasn't had a chance to speak yet?

Okay, I want to read this article I got from gotquestions .org.

I find this to be a very reliable website that I would, if you're ever searching online for questions, biblical answers,

I would recommend this website. It says, deconstruction is the heading most recently applied to the process of questioning, doubting, and ultimately rejecting aspects of Christian faith.

This is an application of deconstructionism, an approach that claims to dissemble beliefs or ideas while assuming their meanings are inherently subjective.

Both the trend and its title reflect backlash against the unfortunate habit within some religious circles to downplay deep questions and ignore those who hold to them, to openly investigate the nuances of belief.

Even changing one's conviction is a biblical concept. In practice, though, deconstruction almost always acts as a polite cover for demolition.

Modern deconstruction usually means replacing uncomfortable tenants with culturally or personally popular ideas.

So, there's people in the church that have doubts, right?

I suppose there are churches that will come down on you if you ask a question, or they don't allow people to question things, or they don't allow anyone to have a different idea.

I mean, I've heard of these churches. I've never, I've never seen it personally, but like the churches where if you're not pre -mill, pre -trib, like you're not even saved if you have the wrong view of the rapture.

Or if you have a question about the mode of baptism. I'm against the whole idea of baptizing infants, but if somebody, well,

I know I can sort of see that. All right, you're out of here. You know, like, there are some churches that I suppose are very heavy -handed in the way they deal with people.

That's never been my experience, but I hear they exist. So, yeah, that would be a bad situation if a church was abusive, and as soon as anyone had a question or a little doubt that they just, you know, dropped the boom on them.

Okay, that would be a problem, but I just don't think that's the majority of churches.

So, we do want to allow people to express their doubts. I would encourage you not to do it in the worship service.

Come and talk to me or something, but if you have a doubt, if you have a question, hey, listen, doesn't this church allow people to ask questions?

I think it does. There you go. Proof. So, but this is what deconstructionists will say.

They say, well, and there's actually one deconstructionist that was on Facebook saying, you know, if your church doesn't allow you to ask questions, come and join our gathering, you know, and we will allow you to ask.

Well, what church isn't allowing people to ask questions? I think it's a straw man to a large degree, but those churches probably exist, but that's what they'll say.

Try to make the church look bad, but we're just so tolerant and inclusive. Well, God knows.

Continuing with the article of fundamental belief in biblical Christianity is that of man's limited understanding compared to God's unlimited understanding.

Scripture often draws this contrast explicitly. Scripture also teaches this truth indirectly, noting how sincere

Christians often come to different conclusions. I think you know that this church isn't one of those churches that, yeah, if somebody has a different belief on a secondary issue, we anathematize them.

That's not what we do. That type of thing might lead to deconstruction.

That's the argument, but we don't do that. Can someone deconstruct from wrong ideas?

Can someone leave behind some doctrines and it would be a good thing? I think so.

Let's say there's a professing Christian and they're praying to Mary, and then they deconstruct that belief about praying to Mary, and that would be a good thing.

I want you to watch this video, and I'm gonna play it through, and I'll get your reaction, and then

I'll go through it again. This is probably the guy that I refer to the most,

Andy Stanley. I think of all the well -known pastors that I brought up many times.

I usually bring him up because he's the best example of this.

You know, someone like a Joel Osteen. I don't, even people that like Joel Osteen, I think,

I don't know that they take him that seriously. I think they realize he's kind of superficial, but he smiles and he makes them feel good.

So I don't know that Joel Osteen is, you know, the biggest threat. Andy Stanley, on the other hand, from what

I see, from what I can tell, he is, he is, he has deconstructed and he is now attacking the faith.

That's my perception of it. Andy Stanley is the son of Charles Stanley. He was brought up in a home where Charles Stanley's doctrine was taught.

Andy Stanley deconstructed. He doesn't believe the doctrine of his father. Yeah, and Andy Stanley went to Dallas Theological Seminary.

What he's teaching today is not the beliefs of Dallas Theological.

So I would argue, the point is, I would argue Andy Stanley himself is deconstructed and now he's trying to get other people to follow him in deconstruction.

So listen to what he says. He actually praises people who are deconstructing. A lot of people don't leave the faith.

They just leave church, right? They deconstruct. They deconstruct their faith.

And this may be you as well. And again, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. You stepped away from organized religion to rethink your faith because you still believe.

You still believe in God and you still hold Jesus in high esteem. In fact, you haven't really changed what you believe about God and Jesus.

It's just the whole organized religion and the church tradition, it just didn't seem to line up. And now you're kind of in no -man's land a little bit.

You had to step away from organized religion and kind of catch your breath to figure out what is fundamental and what's not.

What is essential and what's not. You had to figure out what you needed to leave behind and you're pretty confident what you want to leave behind because if that's the way you have to treat people in order to be a

Christian, I'm not sure I can be a Christian. I can't be that kind of a Christian because I don't think Jesus would treat people that way.

I don't think Jesus is going to send my brother to hell. He's one of the finest people I know. I just have to step away and think about this.

You know what needs to be left behind. And if you know what needs to be left behind, look up here. Good for you. Mature of you.

Honest of you. Okay, so any reactions?

And I promise if you have a question or if you see things a little differently, I'm not going to come down hard on you, okay?

But what's your response? You, yes. When it comes to liars, he's better at it than Satan himself in the garden.

And boy, I can just see these heretics around scribbling down just these little phrases.

Oh, that sounds so good. Yeah. Oh, I'm gonna say that and I'm gonna sound so wise. Especially to somebody who is kind of stupid.

Yeah. They deceive Paul and Romans 16. Yeah. Paul and Romans 16.

They, the false teachers, they deceive the hearts of the simple or the naive.

And it might not even be that somebody's, you know, stupid. We talked about it last week.

Romans 16, 17 and 18, I believe it is. But it might not be that somebody isn't, it's not that they're not intelligent.

It's just they, they don't know yet. They haven't been taught. Maybe they're a new believer and they just haven't got their feet under them.

But any, so, okay, we got one who you see some problems with what was said.

I think it's safe to say that. Janet. I saw an interview that Andy did with his father just shortly before he passed away.

Yeah. And if you were not a believer, it is so convincing of the things that he says, it would be easy to get misled.

Right. Yeah. And as much as I have appreciated Charles Stanley's ministry, that is just something

I can't get over how at the end of his life, he affirmed the ministry of his own son.

And that the here's the problem that tells the world that, Hey, well, Charles, Charles Stanley agrees with it. Charles Stanley's okay with it.

So it must be. All right. That was very unfortunate to say the least.

Yes. Aaron. The reason he's so dangerous is because number one, he believes he's not in his mind.

He's not lying. Yeah. He really truly believes that. And some of what he said is absolutely true.

You do sometimes need to take a step back and say, what am I doing here?

Am I really fully on board with this? And if not, why not? Yeah. Um, the only example

I can give is our church just had a major here. Um, over the issue of women becoming pastors.

And if I was born in that church, it rocked my entire world because I thought

I knew exactly how I felt about that issue. And then I had to look at it again and re -examining is a good thing.

And he points that out. But that's the whole point of deception though, is if it's not rooted in some kernel of truth, it's completely unbelievable.

Right. And everybody's going to pick up on it. Right. And so, I mean, this man is truly deceived.

Yeah. Deceiving and being deceived. So Andy Stanley himself is deceived.

I'm sure he really believes everything he's saying. Well, he might not. I don't know. But he probably does.

I wouldn't doubt that. So he's deceived and he's deceiving others. And if someone's had a bad church experience or they are in one of these churches that were maybe abusive.

I mean, I can see where people would be sympathetic to this, buy into some of this. And some of what he says, you know, there's a point to be made.

But let's just go through it. Because false teachers, one thing they do is they speak out of both sides of their mouth.

And I think we see an example here in the beginning where he says, some people, they haven't left the faith.

They've just left church. And then he talks about them deconstructing their faith. Well, it's like, which is it? So you can sort of hear what you want to hear.

If you wanted to give him the benefit of every doubt, which I know enough about Andy Stanley and I've heard enough of his preaching that I am no longer willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

But the person who has never heard anything from him, yeah, you don't really know where he's coming from. So I can sort of see both sides.

But I agree with you. He's dangerous. And you agree that he's dangerous.

And there's any other comments before we go through it a little more closely?

Yeah. One thing I can say with certainty, he doesn't preach the Bible.

Pick any sermon. He's not reading the Bible and explaining the Bible. He just doesn't do that.

So I would just say, do not go to a church. Don't listen to a pastor who doesn't preach the

Bible. I mean, how basic is that? So Emil, you had something? It's not that the people are stupid.

It's they're not wise in the word. Right. And so they can't compare and say, as you often say, what does the word say in this subject?

And that's where we'll stand. Right. They have no idea. They're not familiar enough with the word.

Right. Yep. Thank you. Anyone else before we go through it again? Well, new people or any old ones, too.

I just would say, I saw this many, many years ago on the issue of homosexuality, when it was first becoming disapproved of, or approved of,

I should say. And in the police department, one of my fellow police officers, the most bigoted, unkind, unloving guy would insult racism, sexism, he'd insult everybody until his son became homosexual.

And then he changed. He changed very 180 degrees because it was his son.

And this is why, this is why it makes it real hard when it's your, when it's a relative or a close friend.

Okay. Well, since you brought that up and since that is one reason why people do shift their beliefs, because a loved one comes out of the closet.

Here's the thing. You don't have to decide between your child and Jesus. You can still keep the faith and believe all of the

Bible and still love your child. But what people do is, yeah, they want to just fully affirm what they're doing.

I don't affirm everything my kids do. I don't affirm everything I do. Like, you know, but you don't have to make that choice.

But a lot of people do. I saw another hand, Emil. In sin, they crave acceptance.

And that's what they want out of you, acceptance. Accept me, accept my sin, and don't even call it a sin because you're judgmental.

Yeah. But the truth, we accept the truth and our discernment relies on the word.

All right. Let's go through this again and I'll stop and make comment. A lot of people don't leave the faith.

They just leave church, right? They deconstruct, they deconstruct their faith.

Hold on a second. You hear what he said? They don't leave the faith.

They just leave church. And then he says, then they deconstruct their faith.

Like, isn't he saying like one thing that now he's saying the opposite? If you're, yeah.

Yeah. I mean, are there circumstances where people leave the church, but they don't leave the faith?

I mean, you know, nothing comes to mind, but like, I accept that there could be, there could be a bad church and you would want to leave that church.

But, you know, being part of the church and being part of the Christian faith, I mean, it kind of goes hand in hand, doesn't it?

But yeah. So he's sort of talking out of both sides of his mouth right away, deconstructing faith or leaving the church.

Well, so people can hear what they want. You as well. And again, this isn't necessarily a bad thing.

You, you stepped away from organized religion to rethink your faith because you still believe you still believe in God.

And you still hold Jesus in high esteem. In fact, hold on, hold Jesus in high esteem.

What the Muslims hold Jesus in high esteem. Now it's a different Jesus there.

Jesus isn't the son of God and all the rest. There's a lot of people in this world who, who hold

Jesus in high esteem, but to say he is Lord of all,

I mean, come on. Oh, they, but they still believe in God. That's meaningless. Oh, you believe in God.

Well, okay. What God tell me something about God. That doesn't matter.

Hold Jesus. So that, that part kind of, yeah. But yeah, they still believe, believe in what?

Okay. In evaluating Jesus, then you're going to have to evaluate him by the things that he said and the things that he did.

Yeah. He claimed to be God. How do you know that? Well, because it's written in his word.

Okay. So this is, this is the whole thing. Word is its own best thing. It says thy word is true. Here's what they want.

They want Christianity without this. They want faith without this, because this, you can have concrete, something certain.

The Bible says this, Andy Stanley wants to unhitch. He says

Christians should unhitch from the old Testament. So I quote two thirds of the

Bible. If now it's, it doesn't matter because it's just the old Testament. Then in a recent sermon, he said, really, but not all parts of the

Bible are equally important, which I guess there's, you could argue there's some truth to that, but he's what he's doing.

It seems like is only the gospels matter. Only Jesus matters, but then it's going to be certain parts of what

Jesus said, but this is what they're attacking. They're attacking the word of God. Okay. Let's continue. You haven't really changed what you believe about God and Jesus.

It's just the whole organized religion and the church tradition. It just didn't seem to line up. And now you're kind of in no man's land.

A little bit. You had to step away from organized religion to kind of catch your breath to figure out what is fundamental and what's not, what is essential and what's.

How do you know what's fundamental? Well, see, he's doing a sermon called the fundamental list, like a list of fundamentals.

Of course, it's a play on words, the fundamentalist. And of course he thinks fundamentalists are ridiculous. Well, how do you know what's fundamental?

Yeah. The scripture would let us know what Jesus said was fundamental. Jesus said in John 14, verse six,

I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes under the father, except by me.

Jesus, his view of marriage in Matthew 19, between one man and one woman.

Yet Andy Stanley allows people, two men who are married to one another to join his church and to serve in his church.

And he defends them, defends them. He has no problem with that. They're attacking the word of God.

They don't want to go by the Bible. So he, and there's one, one more thing

I need to cover on this. You had to figure out what you needed to leave behind. And you're pretty confident what you want to leave behind, because if that's the way you have to treat people in order to be a

Christian, I'm not sure I can be a Christian. I can't be that kind of Christian because I don't think Jesus would treat people that way.

I don't think Jesus is going to send my brother to hell. He's one of the finest people I know. I just have to step away.

Okay. So you need to figure out what you need to leave behind. What are those parts of Christianity that we need to deconstruct and just get rid of?

The idea that Jesus would send someone to hell. I mean, there's such a good person. That's what he said.

I don't think, now he's speaking like for someone else who's deconstructing that Jesus wouldn't send my brother to hell just because he doesn't believe.

That's what he's saying. Jesus, God isn't going to send people to hell because they don't believe in Jesus. They're such a good person.

This is classic liberalism. You know, if there is a heaven, which, you know,

I don't know, does he believe in a literal heaven? Let's just say he does. Well, then of course people are going there.

Why is it about faith in Christ and being born again? He's such a good person.

See that this is, this is the world. This is the world, not the scripture. Jesus clearly said, you must be born again.

John chapter three, you must believe those who do not believe John three 16 will perish.

You're not going to hear that from him, Larry. I heard him say a couple of times, I think, or I feel doesn't say scripture says, right?

Yeah. Well, he's not about feelings about what I think is truth. The truth that's within me.

Right? So this is what a lot of the big mega churches are doing. The, the famous Christian authors that are, you know, at Barnes and Noble and everything else, this is what they're doing.

And it's trickling down into the local churches and people see him, he's doing it.

He's getting away with it and he's successful. I'm going to try it. He is giving people on a local level license to teach this false gospel.

What he's clearly implying that as long as you're a good person, you'll go to heaven. You know, if there is a place called heaven, he's really not getting away with it.

Yeah. Well, he will not get away with it. That's true. But our prayer for him, as well as all these other deconstructionists is that they would repent before it's too late.