Thank God For Bit Coin: Why Christians should love Bitcoin, the Mark of the Beast, and Gold is Dead?

Live From Fight, Laugh, Feast in Knoxville

Exploring theology, doctrine, and all of the fascinating subjects in between, broadcasting from an undisclosed location, Dead Men Walking starts now. Oh, it's not undisclosed today. What's going on, everyone?

We're live from Fight Lab Feast in Knoxville, Tennessee. Here with my buddies Jordan and David. Just met them earlier yesterday, and they've got a very interesting company that we want to talk about, and obviously about in general.

But first, thanks for listening to another episode of Dead Men Walking Podcast. You can find us at dmwpodcast .com. You can check out the merch, support the show, always leave criticism, always leave feedback and reviews.

We appreciate it. Guys, what's up? How's the Fight Lab Feast conference going for you?

It's going great. I'm glad to be here. It's been really enjoyable so far.

All right, so don't get tame on me now, because we had a lively discussion about crypto yesterday, and the passion that you guys came with. I was like, I think they're going to blow my mics if I let them on this podcast.

Tell everyone what the name of your business is and what you guys are about.

We are a part of Thank God for Bitcoin. Thank God for Bitcoin was a book. Jordan was an author of the book, and now we're turning it into a media company, and the book's just the start of us convincing people like you that Bitcoin's better money.

Okay, so the sign grabs everyone. Everyone that walks by your booth here.

We paid a little extra to be like the first one you could see.

We did not. That's why we couldn't believe you were there.

Yeah, I mean, as soon as you come in, there's this huge sign that says, Thank God for Bitcoin, and everyone goes, what the heck does that mean? Did I walk into the wrong conference? Right? So what does it mean?

Why are we thanking God for Bitcoin?

Why Christians Should Thank God for Bitcoin

Yeah, so basically, I mean, when it comes to why we named it this, basically, we do thank God for Bitcoin. Again, in the same way as we are called to be grateful for everything, to not thank God for Bitcoin, if it's something good, would be sinful and wrong.

And so again, having been in Bitcoin and understanding why it exists and what it does, we're thankful for it. And so obviously, it's somewhat tongue-in-cheek for people. We understand how it's tongue-in-cheek for people who don't have any awareness of it or maybe a limited cultural awareness.

Yeah, our hope basically is to help people understand what it is and why it exists and why Christians especially should care.

Yeah, and that's even something that we've talked about. Like, man, we wouldn't like the name Thank God for Bitcoin. But the beauty of it is that for people who don't understand Bitcoin, it is intentionally like, whoa, what is this?

And then we get to kind of have that opportunity to explain to them, no, it is a good gift, and so we should thank God for it.

No, I absolutely understand that with the podcast. People go, dead men walking? What does that mean? Like Ephesians 1, baby. Yes, exactly. We're dead in our trespasses. Then you get a little sermon in there too while explaining it.

Bitcoin, the Mark of the Beast, and the Problem of Broken Money

Yeah, exactly. So, but, I mean, digital currency, I mean, isn't that like the mark of the beast, dude? Like, what's going on? We can't be Christians and support digital currency, can we? What's good about Bitcoin?

That's a great question. And so it's funny because…. Our audience knows I'm being facetious about the mark of the beast.

Okay, just to let you know. So something that we've even wrestled with. So this is our first Christian conference, right? Okay. So we've done Bitcoin conferences. Now here we are at a Christian conference trying to figure out, hey, what is our pitch?

Like when people ask us that, like how do we even actually make this pitch better? And one of the things I've been formulating in my head is, is similar to the gospel, it starts with the problem, right?

Yeah. And for a lot of people, especially at a conference like this, they would agree that something's broken with our money. They would agree that government-backed money is dangerous, right? For people who hate us to be in control of the money supply, that's a problem.

And so the problem is the money's broken. The problem is the money is run by people who are evil. We all can agree on that. Well, what I would encourage is as a Christian who thinks deeply about things, then you should care about finding the solution.

Yeah. And so if we can kind of start there, then we're all on level playing field of, okay, there is a problem. We need a solution. Okay, so now what is that solution, right? So we would put forth Bitcoin.

And I would say to you, hey, maybe you don't agree. Go find something else. The problem is you're always going to end up at Bitcoin. Because once you start to ask that question of, okay, we need better money, then you're going to say, well, what is money?

Yeah. What really is it, right? Yeah. And once you sort of step out of the system enough to ask that question, you start to look at what properties money actually has and needs. Yeah. Right? Yeah, you're going to end up probably talking about gold, right?

Which has all the other issues with it.

Why Bitcoiners and Gold Bugs Agree on Ending the Fed

What about those people that say, well, man, we need to go back to the gold standard, right? Like I'm a big end the Fed guy. Yeah. Go back to the gold standard. I don't want this hippy-dippy digital currency that I carry around in my pocket.

What would you say to people who are like, hey, we need gold, man. We need silver. The first thing we would say is you're right.

We do want to end the Fed too. And so, again, we look at gold bugs in people who, again, they want the right thing. And so we look at, again, it's like that meme from Star Trek where it's like, are you two friends?

And the one guy says no and the other one says yes. He says yes. The Bitcoiners are saying, yes, we're friends with the gold bugs.

The gold bugs are like, no, we're not friends. Oh, you guys are like Baptists and Presbyterians. OK, I get it now.

OK, that makes sense. That's wonderful. So, again, gold is great in a lot of ways. OK? Yeah. But gold, there's a couple of things. Number one, the gold market has been co-opted by the futures market.

Then governments can basically sit on the price of gold and suppress it. The other thing is gold, because of its physicality, the thing to a lot of people, it's a positive, is it ends up being a negative.

So, again, gold is physical. It's heavy.

And gold is expensive. So generally, like large…. We have to mine it, ship it, guard it, right? There's expenses associated with it. It lends itself towards centralization.

You want to put it in a safe place. Most people don't have a safe place for themselves, so they trust guys with guns, thick walls, tall walls. And so it just doesn't do…. It's not going to help my Venezuelan friends who are….

Across the border. Across the border. It's not going to help my brothers and sisters in Africa who don't have any of that infrastructure. So, effectively, gold is very…. It's difficult in a non-starter to use for small-priced items.

And then if you turn to something like silver, it's not as scarce. Silver is just not as scarce.

And I would just jump in to say part of it is gold has deficiencies, right? OK. The market has found those deficiencies and profited from those deficiencies, right? It's difficult to own, so now we have vaults.

All these deficiencies. Bitcoin has the same positives as gold without those deficiencies. And so the ability for it to be co-opted doesn't exist like it does in gold, right? So, yes, is it possible for gold to overcome some of those challenges?

Possibly. But it's still going to have that fundamental deficiency, which is there's a famous Bitcoiner, Michael Saylor, who says this idea of gold holds value over time really well, not over space. Traveling with it, carrying it places, protecting it is very difficult.

Bitcoin is able to travel well over time. It's able to hold its value over time really well and over space, right? Because it's so easy to take actual control of it.

Well, we were talking just about how it can be beneficial in developing countries, too. Absolutely. You know, you have someone who needs to come to another country and move geographically. They don't have the means to pack up all their stuff, their cows, their farm, their, you know, and they're actually, you were saying, selling all their possessions, converting it to Bitcoin.

Or at least that's a possibility. There are people who are doing that.

Bitcoin, Refugees, and Self-Sovereign Money

So full stop. Yeah, that's correct. But the reality, so I've been for the last seven years, I've been a pastor and church planter of a Reformed Baptist church in Uruguay. And so we went there with the intention of ministering to a population that's made, it's constituted largely of atheists who, you know, deal with suicide and depression and just don't, they don't see why, how is God relevant to my life?

Okay. So we went there thinking we were going to minister to them. We get there and there's tens of thousands of Venezuelan refugees pouring into Uruguay, trying to find jobs to work to be able to send money back home to Venezuela because their currency is worthless because their government hyperinflated it.

Yeah. And so the, again, Sounds familiar. Yeah, 100%. We're getting there, brother. I've seen the future. So again, the issue here is there are people doing exactly what you described. Okay. But with Bitcoin, the possibility exists for you to sell your, again, sell your things that you have that are valuable, buy Bitcoin with those things, and then you can cross any border in the world with a 12 or 24 word passphrase memorized in your head or written down somewhere.

You can hide, you know, written information way easier than you can hide a bar of gold or several ounces of gold. They're crossing these very dangerous things. You don't have to have any outward indicator that you have anything of value.

And you can go to wherever you are and start back up and you've got your wealth. Can't be confiscated either. No. Again, if it's, it can be, but.

I mean, when you're entering into a new geographical area or country or who knows, you're trying to carry a bunch of silver or gold or even money. It can be confiscated if you do it wrong.

Right? Like you see on the news, people are like, you know, I thought Bitcoin wasn't hackable. Some guy just, he's a criminal. He just got his Bitcoin stolen from the feds. Yeah. Because they took his phone and his Bitcoin was on his phone and he didn't store it properly.

Right? Right. That's not a deficiency in Bitcoin. So most of the time people are interacting with some deficiency that they see that is really, again, this is, this is the interesting part about Bitcoin.

Bitcoin. Yeah. It isn't like the bank. If someone steals your credit card and spends it, you're going to call the bank up and you're like, yeah, I made a mistake. I let someone steal my credit card. And the bank's going to say, don't worry about it.

So you're not self-sovereign, right? Right. You're going to trust the bank to give you your money back. With Bitcoin, there is no Mr. Bitcoin that you can call if someone steals your Bitcoin. Right? Yeah.

So yeah, it does require a level of like, you have to be an adult and you have to kind of take this initiative, which is different than the culture we're used to when it comes to banking. So it's like, it's this double edged sword in the sense of it gives people the access that they didn't have otherwise have, but now they have the access.

Right. Right. Without that trusted third party. So it kind of even changes the dynamics of how we interact with money, how we interact with people. There's not that every, every deal doesn't have a third party in it now.

Right. Right now, you and I do business together, but that creates a whole nother world, which has a lot of positives, but has things that we need to be mindful of.

Centralized Digital Currencies and Government Control

So do you think that's what scares centralized banks in banking? When you have a currency like this that's decentralized? Because I got to assume you guys aren't for all digital currencies, right? There's some out there that are.

There are still. What are some ones to stay away from?

All of them that are centralized. There are centralized digital currencies. So you don't want that. So whether they're, whether they're privately created in the case of other currencies, like people, the currency that your audience might have heard of Ethereum, Dogecoin, all these things, these are privately created, but they're still central, you know, centrally controlled currencies.

Right. There's small groups of people who control the decision making of those, of those organizations. And so all the government or a government has to do is go get those few people, line them up, get them in a room and basically they can threaten them and do whatever and convince them to change the protocol.

Whereas Bitcoin can't be dealt with on that, on that same level. And so again, on the other hand, you have government currencies. So you have government, central bank, digital currencies. Right. They're proposing that right now.

Yeah. What China has where they can literally say, oh, you, you went to, you used your credit card to go to fight left feast. You're cut off from the banking system or you're cut off from PayPal or, you know, whatever.

Well, that's a real thing that's happening. A hundred percent. So the test case and one of the value I was waiting for something like this. I didn't want it to happen, but I was waiting for it to happen.

And it was what happened to the Canadian truckers, which was, you know, they had this thing. People wanted to support them. Bunch of people from the United States send them dollars. And what does the Canadian government do?

They confiscated those dollars and just gave it to whoever they wanted to, whoever they want a horrible charity, like all these, you know, left leaning, all these things, charities. And so the only money that they couldn't, they couldn't take and give to all these horrible things was Bitcoin.

Bitcoin. Yeah. They couldn't do it. They said they were going to, and then they realized, oh no, wait, we can't actually do it. You can't do it. Yeah. Because these people in their case, in their case, the people who they had, they were holding their own keys.

They were holding their own, their own, like the Bitcoin was in their possession. They weren't trusting the equivalent of a Bitcoin bank to hold their currency for them. And so, yeah, so that's the difference.

Why Older Christians Resist Crypto and How to Begin Learning

So why do you think, and I'm going to make some assumptions here, but this is just from me talking is totally personal experience. But if I'm talking to anyone over the age of, let's say, 50, I get immediate pushback on crypto.

100%. Immediate. It's not real. It can't be sustained. There's all kinds. I don't trust it. First of all, why is that, do you think? Are they just brought up in an era where they rely on money? And I'm talking to smart people who also want to end the Fed and like gold standards and know that we're in debt and all these things and don't like centralized banking.

How do we overcome it at that age group? And I get a lot of pushback from believers, from Christians that just go, like I said earlier, I made a joke. Mark of the beast or whatever. The reason is they just don't want to adopt it.

They look at it as some type of worldly system, yet they'll gladly use a monopoly money, which is a US dollar and make believe that it's worth something. So how do we overcome that? Is that part of your guys' path to educate?

Our business exists to help educate, to help Christians understand what it is and why it matters. And so what that practically looks like and what it's looked like here at this conference is having a lot of very patient, very patient conversations with people who are coming at you with earnest questions, who have heard things on the Internet or heard things online.

And so they're trying to sift through what is this? What do I believe about this? Who are they telling the truth? Yeah. A lot of it is just patient conversations. Otherwise, obviously, we're creating podcasts, books, all kinds of videos.

And I would say to connect to that is one, we can't ignore the fact that it is hard. Like it's taken me years, you know, and a lot of study to make sense of just like the scriptures, right? Like it's not like you just show up and you're like, yeah, it makes perfect sense.

Like as you understand. I know it all. Yeah. You go deeper and you're like, wow, now there's a whole new world for me to kind of see as I've understood this, you know, specific theological term. And so similar with Bitcoin is there's definitely levels to understanding it.

And so part of that is, is asking questions like, do they actually understand the problem? Right. Like, hey, let's forget about Bitcoin. That's a good point. Maybe Bitcoin isn't the solution. I'll concede that.

Let's talk about the problem because, yeah, you want to end the Fed, but why? Right. Like, let's go back and, okay, let's talk about gold. Why is it good money? And so then when we can get talk about some of those things, then, yeah, we should understand that that Bitcoin is hard for someone who's, who's older, just like the cell phone was hard for them to get behind.

Email. Right. Just like email was hard. True. It's like, you know, different famous economists who have said like, well, the Internet won't be a thing. And like all that other stuff, like people have done that because they just can't see that future.

And so part of the way we do that is a make sure they really understand the problem. And then B, I think helping them interact with Bitcoin in a very small way. Something that we were even talking about before is like, hey, what is our, for that person who's like, hey, I don't know, but I'm willing to like take a step.

What's that first step? It's like, hey, get off zero. Right. Like where should I go buy some Bitcoin? And it's like, right. We have a few partners that we like, we, we really encourage like Swan Bitcoin is one of them where it's like, hey, that they are a Bitcoin only company.

They're, they're good people who run that company. Right. Like, hey, that's where you should go. And that take a step, like buy a little bit. And yeah, don't put your, don't sell your house and buy some Bitcoin, buy, buy a hundred dollars worth.

Right. And now start to learn how to interact with it and then, then come back and let's take another step. Right. Because sometimes it definitely is a longer journey and we just have to be okay with that.

Yeah. And, and again, I think one of the, one of the, the best motivators to be interested in learning about something is need. Sure. Right. Like you, you don't, you don't, there's things that we don't do until we have to.

Yeah. And so again, these people in Venezuela and these people in Nigeria, they're, you know, they're not there. It's just as hard for them to understand technological things that is, as it is for anybody.

And yet they're looking at, all right, in, in Venezuela, this literally happens. I go to the store in the morning and prices are this, I go to the store in the afternoon and they're a hundred percent more, like more expensive.

Yeah. Wow. And so all of a sudden you have the gumption, you have, because there's a need there, you recognize I'm not going to have, I'm not going to be able to buy the food that I need to feed my family.

If I keep playing by the rules that are presented to me. Right. All of a sudden you're willing to learn in the same way that again, a lot of people who are older have learned to use email, which there's this incredible video of unlike the today show from like 1994.

Yes, exactly. And it has Bryant Gumbel. Yeah. And he's like the intranet. What is this? Yeah. A hundred percent. These two women who've been lost to history and they basically said, what is this email?

What is this email? Why do we need that? We have letters, you know? And, and you're just like, now we look at that 24 years, you know, 26 years later and we're like, this is ridiculous, man. And it's because some of it is just a matter of, you know, the, the approachability of software designed around these things that make them more accessible.

Some of it's just a factor of that. Again, Bitcoin is still only held by less than 5 of people on earth. And so there's still, I mean, Bitcoin is a, Bitcoin's a child still. Sure. It's still a child.

And so there's still people working to create interfaces with Bitcoin, ways to interact with it that are, that are, are easily approachable. Now there's, there's a lot of, the overwhelming majority of people can use the Bitcoin apps and interactions to be able to purchase Bitcoin.

They can do those today. And again, we, we recommend Swan. Swan is what I use to, you know, Swan to buy Bitcoin. They, one of the things that a lot of people, there's one of the companies that a lot of people know that deals with Bitcoin is called Coinbase.

Yep. And so what you have to know, again, just like with anything is, is what is, what is the incentive structure? We want to know this, whether it comes to, whether it's governments or business, how, how are we being, how are we being monitored?

How do they make money? Yeah. And so whereas Google sells your information, that's how they make money. Yep.

They, you're the product. You're the one for sale when you get that free email.

Yeah. And so with companies like Coinbase who sell thousands of these different cryptocurrencies, what they're doing is they have, they get paid by every single trade that happens. Every single transaction that happens, they get 2 of.

So they're incentivized to encourage as many transactions as possible. Right. And so the more, more cryptocurrencies that they have, no matter how good, bad, worthless they are. Yep. They're getting paid regardless.

Sure. And so this company Swan that, you know, is a partner of ours, they, we recommend them because they only sell Bitcoin. They really believe in Bitcoin. And so they don't, they're like, we don't want to make money.

They forego hundreds of millions of dollars by not selling all these other cryptocurrencies. And so we want to support people who are trying to, who are, you know, again, selling products that they actually believe in.

Yep. Yeah. And putting the good of their customer above their short term, you know, ability to make money.

Proof of Work, Scarcity, and Bitcoin as Better Money

Yeah. So, and I, one more objection before we wrap this up here too, because I've heard people say, well, look at gold, you have to go mine it, mine it and get it. And there's like physical labor involved with it.

Yep. And in crypto and, you know, it's just, it's, it's digital. There's, there's no labor or anything behind it. But you would say, no, there is for every single Bitcoin. There was labor and energy and things put into it.

Correct.

Something that I talk a lot about when I'm trying to explain Bitcoin to people is the beauty of Bitcoin is that if I were to pull out my phone and send you Bitcoin right now. Yeah. I know for a fact. No, go ahead.

Let's do it. Just to make sure it works on the show. Yeah. Yeah. Let's do it. Just 10. I just need 10. 10 Bitcoin. Someone mined that Bitcoin. Right. And so what is mining? Mining? It sounds really, really confusing.

Just say it's, it's the convert. We're converting the energy, right? Someone is spending capital to have Bitcoin miners, right? Which are computers, which are kind of guessing this number. Right. And every 10 minutes kind of Bitcoin is, is mined.

Right. But they're expending that capital to get the miners. They're also paying for that energy. Right. They're consuming that energy. Right. And so we're basically digitizing energy. Yeah. We're taking real life energy.

Right. Yeah. Whether it's coal or oil or whatever it is, methane gas. Hydroelectric. Hydroelectric. We're converting that real life kind of something built by God and sort of the way that the world works.

Yeah. Right. We're taking that energy and we're digitizing it. Right. And we're not digitizing it into this infinity. We're digitizing it into this 21 million. Right. And so we know that when we look at Bitcoin that someone real life put out that energy.

Just like gold. That's one of the beauties of gold. That's why, again, trying to go to the crypto conversation, that's why proof of work, the Bitcoin kind of protocol of like mining has to happen is so valuable.

It's because we have proof that work was done to get us this. Just like gold has proof of work. When you see gold, you know someone. It just didn't appear. Mined that gold. Right. Yeah. And so that proof of work is so valuable because that actually is that when people say like what backs Bitcoin, what's the value behind it?

There's that work behind it. Right. That work of securing the network.

Real resources. Real energy went into producing this Bitcoin. Right. And so again, so you can compare that with gold and people can be like, well, you know, gold's, again, it's the same exact situation with gold.

It looks a little bit different, but it's still the same. You're still having to pay overhead for machines. You're still having to pay overhead for places to refine the gold. There's places. Sure. There's a lot of similarities there.

But the bigger issue, and again, going back to the idea of need, the bigger issue is that while we're sitting here arguing, your money is getting eight and a half percent more worthless with every month.

At least. Yeah, at least. And even then, those are the best. A hundred percent. Those are the best numbers. Those are not. Those are the numbers that they tell you. Yeah. Yeah. You know, if you're going out to buy a house, it's way more than 8%.

Sure. You know, if you're going out to buy, I mean, we talked to a guy. Go buy cheese. Go buy sour cream. It's up 30, 35%. Sour cream was up like 90%. Yeah. And so again, so while you're sitting here arguing, you're wasting time, which you could either be learning about Bitcoin, and you could be saving the buying power of your money.

So again, you don't want it. There is a sense of urgency. Again, Christians are doing the most important work in the world. If you're making disciples, you care about paying your pastor, you care about supporting missionaries, all these things.

Christians are doing the most important work in the world, and with every month that goes by, the money that they're using that's given, that they've denied themselves to serve their neighbors and to earn this with, the money is accomplishing less and less with every single month that goes by.

Wow. And so again, for me, that affects my Venezuelan neighbors, my Venezuelan brothers and sisters who love the Lord. That affects people's ability to be there with them. It affects their ability to preach the gospel to them and encourage them.

So these are real life concerns. This isn't just this random thing. This is real life. Yeah, some fad. Yeah, this is some fad. There's people who are using these and are enabled to stay on the mission field because of Bitcoin.

The Future of Bitcoin and How to Get Started

Wow. So let's wrap this up in just a few minutes. Where do we, realistically, as guys who are in this, where do we see Bitcoin in the next 5, 10, 20 years? If you're looking and trying to really project and go, where is this going?

Are we going to be walking around on our phones with Bitcoin and having it as a competing centralized digital currency, or what do you think? And I think Jordan will agree with me.

We're not even necessarily in the, let's not even talk price, right? Because who cares what the price is? But what I can tell you is this.

Because we didn't touch on this, but it could also be divisible. Yes. Bitcoin. It's not like I have to have 60 grand to buy a couple of Bitcoin. No, you can buy a few dollars.

Okay, go ahead. Sorry. So where do I think it's going to be? I'm an entrepreneur. I'm a business owner, right? Yeah. I think, and you are as well, right? You have this podcast. I think there will start coming more and more every year, right?

Let's say five years from now. Yeah. When someone says, how much does that cost? You might start to think in more than just the dollar. Right. You might say. You might say, well, do I want to sell this thing?

Do I want to give up my time for some dollars? Right. Well, I take dollars, right? Yeah. And that's inflated up to 10x what it was a few years back. But I prefer. But I would also take Bitcoin. Yeah. Right?

I might also take, name something else, right? Right. But what that's introducing is there's sort of, there's this loss of confidence in my ability to price things in the dollar, right? Yeah. And so over the next five years, 10 years, will Bitcoin be the only thing we use?

No, probably not. But what's happening is it's being, it's being the opportunity to save in Bitcoin, the opportunity to transact in Bitcoin is becoming more and more prevalent. Right. Because here's the reality.

This is a parting line that I'll say. The linchpin for me in kind of converting everything and like, okay, I'm all in on Bitcoin. Yeah. Was the reality that human beings always trend towards the best money.

Yeah. Because by nature, they don't want to waste their time.

Well, I mean, that's what it is, right? Yeah. It's a pocketable labor service exchange. So you want the best.

I want the best. I don't want to wake up in six months and this money, my time has been devalued. Right. I want the best battery for my time. Right. Bitcoin is a better battery. And so people will trend towards it.

And so that trend will just continue to grow.

All right, guys. So we got someone out there listening right now and they're going, this all sounds great. I need to learn more about this. I want to get into it. I'm finally making the plunge. Where do they go to talk to you guys?

How do they get ahold of your book?

Like, what's their next step? So we, our website is TGFB .com. All right. We'll link that up. Yep.

And then we're on Twitter. I mean, if you look at Thank God for BTC on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook. But more importantly, the book. The book is on Amazon.

You can buy it on Amazon. What's the name of it again? Thank God for Bitcoin. Thank God for Bitcoin. And so again, and then just, we have our YouTube channel where we're going to be publishing videos.

Again, answering a lot of these kinds of questions. Yeah. Again, we have an, there's like an email capture on our website. If you have questions, go there and drop us your email and drop us a line and we'd be happy to reach out to you.

But again, this is where our goal is to provide content that answers these honest questions that people have. We understand it's difficult to understand. Yeah. And so we want to kind of be in the gap to help people, help people understand.

All right, guys. Thanks so much for stopping by and talking to us. I'm sure we'll be talking in the future. And guys, thanks for listening to another episode of Dead Men Walking Podcast. We appreciate you visiting dmwpodcast .com, supporting the show.

As always, God bless. Be sure to follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Dead Men Walking Podcast for full video podcast episodes and clips or email us at deadmenwalkingpodcast at gmail .com.