August 17, 2018 Show with James Wright on “A Christian Reads the Qur’an: Honest Reading, Honest Reflection” AND “Reflections on Pastor Andrew Brunson & His Treatment by the Turkish Government”

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

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Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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Now here's our host, Chris Arntzen. Good afternoon

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on the 17th day of August 2018 and I'm so delighted to have as a returning guest today

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James Wright and he is not to be confused with my dear friend Dr. James R.

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White, w -h -i -t -e, who is a frequent guest on this program and who is also involved in upcoming events that I am orchestrating.

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Our guest today is James Wright, w -r -i -g -h -t, and that's a pen name to protect his identity.

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He is the author of Martyrs of Malata, Martyrs for the Messiah in Turkey, the

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True Story of Three Christian Heroes Murdered for the Cause of the Gospel by Islamic Terrorists, which is a book listed on Tim Challey's 2015 new and notable books list, and James Wright has lived with his family in Central Asia among the people of the

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Tian Shan Mountains after the fall of communism in the 1990s. Today we are going to be addressing his new book,

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A Christian Reads the Quran, Honest Reading, Honest Reflection, and then time permitting we will also share some reflections on Pastor Andrew Brunson and his treatment by the

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Turkish government, but it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Shepherd's Iron Radio, James Wright.

02:48

Thank you. Thank you. It's a real privilege to be back, Chris. Enjoyed the last time and excited about being together today.

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I am as well, and in studio with me for the second day in a row, co -hosting with me is someone who is making a rare appearance for the second time this week in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

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That is my webmaster, Eric Nielsen. Without him, this program would not exist,

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I am certain, and Eric made the trip all the way from Illinois to Carlisle, Pennsylvania to update the equipment here in the studio for your listening pleasure, and not only is

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Eric my webmaster, but he is also an elder at the Community Evangelical Free Church of Champaign -Urbana,

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Illinois, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back into the studio, Eric Nielsen. Good to be here,

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Chris. And Eric, why don't you once again, for those of our listeners who missed you yesterday, share with our listeners something about the

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Community Evangelical Free Church of Champaign -Urbana, Illinois. Sure.

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We meet in Champaign, Illinois at Judah Christian School, and we have been meeting there for the past 30 years.

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One of the reasons that we meet in a Christian school, and have done that for so long, is that we want to use our resources for missions in the furtherance of the gospel, and God has blessed us to be able to do that, and so if you happen to be in the

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Champaign -Urbana area at any time, anyone who is listening, we would be glad to have you visit. So I'm assuming you think that the church where I'm a member should immediately cease the construction project on our 60 -story cathedral here in Carlisle?

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I'm only kidding. Well, this is a very important subject that we are addressing today.

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It's a subject, I think, that involves headlines that we see and hear about nearly daily involving

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Muslims globally, and I am speaking of the theme of James Wright's book,

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A Christian Reads the Quran, Honest Reading, Honest Reflection. Let me give you our email address if you have a question for James.

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On anything, basically, in regard to Islam and the Quran, the email address is chrizarnsen at gmail .com,

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Please give us at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA, and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

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Let's say you are a Muslim yourself and you don't want to draw attention to yourself, to your identity.

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I understand that. And I urge you, if you do disagree with our guest

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James Wright, to feel free to send in a question. And obviously, also, if you are living in an area that is dominated by Muslims and perhaps even in an area that Sharia law exists,

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I fully understand that you would remain anonymous. But otherwise, please give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

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Well, first of all, James, if you could start off with how you developed an interest and a compassion for the

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Muslim people and a passion to proclaim the Gospel to them. Yeah, just last night

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I was with a small group here in the States. We were visiting in the U .S. for a while before we travel internationally again.

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And I was just reflecting with them. They're near, actually, this group is near where I went to do my undergraduate work in college many years ago now.

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And I was telling them, they were curious, you know, how can they engage with Muslims living in the

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United States. And I said, well, I really cut my teeth on that by just going and hanging out at the student union in the college when

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I was a student as well, and meeting Muslim guys, Muslim students around the table, drinking

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Coke. And, of course, they're eager to convert a Christian, so they're excited to talk to me. And I'm eager to hear their story and share the

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Gospel, so I'm excited to talk to them. And that's really how the seeds were planted. And you actually uprooted your family and are now living in Central Asia among the people of the

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Tian Shan Mountains after the fall of communism in the 1990s. How long have you been living there? We actually, to be more precise, we were living in that part of the world, the

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Tian Shan, at the big mountain range in Central Asia with Turkic peoples. We moved there in 1993, and then we relocated.

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And I can say we're living in Istanbul. I mean, I'm happy to say that, and have been there for 16 years.

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Okay. Yeah, I guess the bio I read wasn't complete because it didn't include that information.

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But why the desire to uproot your family to move?

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And you could start with the Tian Shan Mountains, and then you can continue the story of how you wound up in Turkey.

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Tell us about how your family reacted to this. And obviously, I'm assuming a part of this is because you do have a compassion for the

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Muslims and a passion to preach the Gospel to them. Yeah, there's several key components. And one was taking a mission class called

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Perspectives on the World Christian Movement, based out of, at that time, I think, the U .S. Center for World Mission many years ago, and being challenged by the concept of ethne to all the nations, where Jesus said, take this

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Gospel to all the nations. And that idea is repeated again and again. And that challenged me.

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We're so provincial in our thinking. And I'm not saying that's our fault necessarily. It's where we live.

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It's where we grow up. We're used to the local market on the corner and so forth.

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But the Gospel from the beginning and the plan of Christ from the beginning was to all the nations.

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And then having that better defined as people groups is a very common term these days.

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Linguistic and cultural uniqueness. No one's going to be able to hear the

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Gospel in those groups unless someone steps in from the outside. And that includes people groups like, let's say, the

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Kazakh people that we know very well in Kazakhstan, 8 million people. There were 50 believers in 1992, or 1990, 50 million believers.

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Now there's 20 ,000. And we wanted to be part of that grand movement of Christ. I'd say a second component was being challenged to the

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Muslim world by leaders such as Greg Livingstone, who founded Mission to Muslims.

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And he really brought the focus. And so many people are either afraid, or maybe even in their theology they feel somehow there's not room, which of course is absurd.

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There's grace extended. And clearly there will be from every tribe and tongue and nation, and that includes

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Muslim peoples, that will hear the Gospel and will respond in faith. And I'd say

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Greg Livingstone, Samuels Wehmer from another generation, how he faithfully brought forth the vision to reach

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Muslims. Those are the kinds of things that really impacted us and gave us the, I suppose, the longevity to keep going after all these years.

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Now did your family share your enthusiasm for these relocations? Yeah. You know,

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God's given our family a lot of grace. And the boys, we have several sons.

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They've, at various levels, they've been part of the work and still are supportive.

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Some are grown now and adults. But yeah, we've had good solidarity.

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Not always easy, but we've had unity in the matter. Okay. Well, let's start off by giving our listeners some more detail about the surrounding areas and the peoples of the

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Tien Shan Mountains, and then update us to your current situation in Turkey. Yeah, you know, and I thank you for asking that question, because I really appreciate being able to put a spotlight on what we call the

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Turkic peoples, as compared to Turkish peoples. Mostly people think of the

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Turkish people as those living in the country of Turkey. That's about 80 million people. But the

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Turkic peoples are a mixture of tribes and language dialects that stretch from eastern

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China all the way across into Europe, actually. There's people living in Bulgaria and Greece that are

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Turkic peoples. And they, you know, when you talk to missiologists, they would say that the

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Turkic peoples, numbering around 150 million total, maybe 200 million, these would be the largest unreached block, one of the least reached blocks of humanity, the fewest number of Christians per capita of any people group designation in the world.

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And you uprooted from the Central Asia area of the

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Tien Shan Mountains, and you eventually made your way to Turkey. So if you could be more specific about the details and how the places are different.

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There's several people groups in Central Asia, the Stams, that were all part of the 15 republics of the

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Soviet Union. Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan.

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There's other smaller Turkic people groups scattered throughout. A lot of people didn't realize, but under the

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Soviet Union were many, many Muslim peoples. And those people groups were heavily influenced by the 70 years under communism.

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They were forced into atheism. They were forced into collective farms. The Kazakhs, for example, lost millions of head of sheep and cattle and camels.

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They slaughtered a lot of them trying to keep the communists from getting their hands on them. And resisted.

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It was great resistance. There are also still about a million and a half Kazakh people in Western China.

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Most people don't know that. Everyone hears about the Uyghurs. The Uyghurs are 10 million in Western China.

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They're far more independent -minded and trying to fight and agitate for political independence.

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But you've got Uyghurs, you've got Kazakhs. These people are all heavily influenced, whether they like it or not, by atheism, secularism.

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And then, of course, after the Soviet Union fell, then there was the blossoming, the boom of oil and commerce that brought tremendous wealth to these people.

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Looking toward the West, you've got Turkey. And that's a unique situation among all the

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Turkish people groups. Turkey's unique. It's the only one that I can think of right offhand that was under the sphere of the

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Western European, American economy, politics, education worldview.

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It was a real buffer zone between Russia and the West during the Cold War. And that fact has kept the

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Turkish people highly...they're

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far more Islamic than the Turkic Muslims to the East. The Turkish people are by far the most

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Islamic, and they're thinking loyal to Islam. We can get more into that, what they really know about it later, but that's in their heart loyalty.

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It's far higher among those people. And if you could, before we get into the contents of A Christian Reads the

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Quran, tell our listeners, especially for the sake of those who missed your first interview with me on your book

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Martyrs of Malata, Martyrs for the Messiah in Turkey, tell our listeners about that book so that their appetites will be whetted, so that they will not only look up the archives to hear that program, that interview on Iron Trip and Zion Radio's website, but they can also have more of a desire to get a hold of the book themselves.

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Yeah, and I actually tried to promote that book a couple of months ago on a mission website again, because it's a little bit older book now, not that much older, but the event happened in 2007 when three men were brutally murdered in eastern

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Turkey. Malatya is the name of the city where they were killed. Two were Turkish citizens and one was a

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German missionary. Two of them were working with a Bible distribution company, the two

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Turkish brothers, and they were also church planting, very successful evangelists.

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They were having a lot of influence in the neighboring villages and regions around Malatya in the politically sensitive part of the country.

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The German brother was there as a translator and he shared an office with these other two guys, but he was working with a different ministry, though they did do house church together and had started a small church, which is incidentally still going well.

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Praise the Lord, it's going well in Malatya, but the three men were killed. And the reason

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I mentioned it just recently again is in light of what's happening with almost everyone now knows about Andrew Brunson, and we'll get a chance to talk about that some more, but I really want to say to people,

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I wish I could send a copy of my book to Trump and Pence and everyone else, because I analyzed all the dynamics that are playing out right now in this phony trial and phony accusations against Andrew Brunson.

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All of that was playing out. This is the same playbook, the same game that they've been playing for really decades, how they caricature, make false accusations, and I really probe into the worldview of the

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Turkish mind, the worldview of the Islamic propaganda machine and deceit and how all that played into the deaths of these three men in 2007.

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It's right down the same track that's happening now. Thankfully, Andrew wasn't murdered, he was imprisoned, but the powers and the train of thought.

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So I encourage people to read that book, Martyrs of Malatya. Some might say, well, that's a whole different situation.

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No, no, not at all. It's exactly the same kinds of distorted thinking and manipulation of the masses, manipulation of the public and the press and everything else that goes on.

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We're seeing it play out again. Well, you know, since you brought up Andrew Brunson, Pastor Andrew Brunson, why don't we just continue with this thread for a little bit, and then we'll return to A Christian Reads the

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Quran. What do you know about Pastor Brunson? Starting off with perhaps his denomination or fellowship or association or brotherhood, whatever background he's from as a

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Christian pastor. I remember, I think that there may have been some confusion in the media. There were some people,

18:41

I believe, calling him a Mormon, if I'm not mistaken. But if you could tell us about his background and why he was imprisoned, and I know that now he's in house arrest, but tell us about all of those things, if you could, in summary form, of course.

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Yes, Andrew Brunson, and I don't know him personally. We have mutual friends, mutual co -workers, but let's just say

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I would know his circle of acquaintances well enough to just even speak for his character.

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He's a solid guy. He's been there working, ministering, church planting for, I think, something over 20 years.

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I think his association is Evangelical Presbyterian Church. I may be wrong on that, but that's what his association is.

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As part of the dossier that was brought forth in this court case against him, one of the accusations was that he was conspiring with Mormons, and there were just bizarre conspiratorial theories that are just fomented in this environment of Turkey against Christians.

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And so I don't remember specifically accusing him of being a Mormon, but conspiring with Mormons, and that was even discussed by his senator from,

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I think, North Carolina, who made about a 15, 20 -minute presentation to the U .S. Senate, and on the floor of the

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Senate said this was illogical, because typically Evangelicals don't conspire with Mormons.

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It was full of irrational and fanciful conspiratorial theories.

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Turks and Middle Easterners, and even going up into parts of Russia and so forth, there's an obsession with conspiracy theories.

20:23

You know, he's done solid work, and he's been quite on the edge. He's been quite bold for many years.

20:29

My understanding is he went in just thinking he was going to get his residency permit renewed, and that's when he and his wife were both arrested two years ago almost, and then his wife was released shortly after, but he's been held.

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He was in quite difficult, quite austere conditions that he's been in in prison, and I know he's lost a lot of weight.

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He's admitted he's had psychological distress over this, but a tremendous witness, you know.

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In Turkish, he's continued to give witness. I came here to preach the gospel of Jesus, and that's my only and single purpose for being in this country.

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So he's really held up under fire. Now, how long was he actually imprisoned before being placed under house arrest?

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Oh, the house arrest has only been in the last few weeks, so he was almost a year and a half in the prison cell.

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I think at one point he was in solitary confinement, and another point he was in a cell. We heard something like a cell designed for a few people, and it had a dozen or more people in it.

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Do you think that the sanctions against Turkey imposed by President Trump had something to do with him being placed under house arrest rather than remaining in prison?

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Yeah, and I'm trying to follow the news like probably a lot of others. Some of the news are saying that there was a deal cut, sort of a backroom deal, and someone was released from Israel, and who knows exactly what is true, but what is obvious through all this,

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I was just telling my wife today, Andrew has now, and I know he wasn't seeking, obviously you don't seek this kind of thing, notoriety, but I would say he's become the most famous missionary internationally, and certainly in the

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U .S., probably since the 1950s when Jim Elliott and Nate Saint and the other men were martyred in Ecuador.

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A lot of people don't remember that anymore, but that was one of, that was the last missionary event of this level of fame that I've seen in decades.

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And what is your level of optimism that the house arrest will even be brought to an end, and if you could also give us as much information as you can as to why you think this was trumped up against him?

22:59

Oh, those are great questions. It's hard to predict what's going to happen, we're looking at such unpredictable people

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I've lived with, you know, lived among these folks for many years now, and there's a level of unpredictability here, it's quite high, so I can't,

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I can't, I don't even want to venture, I'll just continue to say please, please pray for his release, he is an innocent man, he didn't do anything illegal, and in fact, one of the charges in the dossier is that he was

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Christianizing people, well that's not even illegal according to the Turkish constitution. There's been another brother, a friend of mine named

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David Bile, who's been in international news at times because he was detained and then at one point expelled from the country, he got a lawyer and fought, but they were basically trying to kick him out of the country for the same thing,

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Christianization, but that's illegally, according to the Turkish constitution, that's not breaking the law, so who's to say what's going to happen here, but in terms of the sanctions,

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I guess I don't want to say a lot about that because it's a little bit veering off into the political side of things, but we're certainly many people, many people are praying for his release and for justice, and it's as though God is allowing

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Andrew to be sort of like one of the Old Testament prophets at times,

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I'm thinking of, who was it, Ezekiel, he had to lay down on his side for a while or something, and you just, it's like God has allowed

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Andrew to be this focal point to bring to light the tremendous spiritual need and the tremendous spiritual resistance of these people.

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Turkey is one of the least reached countries in the world, has the fewest percentage, fewest number of evangelical

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Christians or Protestant or whatever, you know, but the fewest number of believer,

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Christian believers in the world, per capita. Wow. Now, how would you describe

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Turkey in its severity of Islamic fundamentalism,

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I mean, would you say that Turkey is under Sharia law, you just surprised me about it being completely legal in Turkey to quote -quote

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Christianize people, so I'm assuming that it might be even less dangerous for a

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Christian to live there than Saudi Arabia, where people have been, not so long ago, threatened with execution, and I had heard that that execution was called off of those missionaries that were intended to be executed for evangelizing the

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Muslim people there, but how can you compare Turkey with something like Saudi Arabia?

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It's a different brand of Islam, there's these legal schools of Islam, and your friend

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James White would, I'm sure he would have way more to say about this, and I'm not a super Islamic scholar,

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I'm more of a missiologist, practical, how do you apply, how do you reach, we'll get more into that with the book

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I wrote, but it is a different brand, in Saudi Arabia it's Wahhabi Islam, it tends to be like a restorationist version of Islam, let's get back to just the

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Quran, let's get back to this real intensive Sharia and Sunni, the way that the

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Prophet Muhammad, as they see him, the way he lived, and follow all these things exactly, and so it's a much more backward looking, if you will, in Turkey they have these more modernized views, and they have a different school of law,

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Hanafi, let me think a minute, yeah it's Hanafi Islam, it's their jurisprudence, it's

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Hanafi Islam, and so they have different views on, for example, whether a

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Muslim can touch a dog or not, and so many Turks have no trouble owning a dog, but probably in Saudi Arabia I don't think anyone can own a dog, there's a much more open sort of tolerance, and they're built into their legal system,

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Sharia law is a funny thing, you know, you've got lots of different opinions about it, and these different schools of law that are underneath the different sections of Islam, Sunni and Shia, and then also to make things interesting in Turkey you have the

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Alevi people, many don't know about the Alevis, they're sort of the silent, quiet, secret, not secret exactly, but just invisible is the word

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I want, but there's about 20, 15 to 20 million Alevis in Turkey, and they're kind of a splinter

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Shiite group, not at all like you would think of Shiites in Iran, not at all, much more almost

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Unitarian Universalist, if you could say, in their thinking. That sounds something like another sect

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I'm familiar with, in fact I was treated to lunch by an

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Imam in this sect, and it's the Ahmadiyya, and I know I'm probably mispronouncing it, also

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I've heard it pronounced Ahmadi, and it seemed, I remember

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I was surprised having lunch with this Ahmadi Imam, who actually, believe it or not, gave

28:29

James White an invitation to preach in his mosque as long as the members of his mosque could ask questions, and then unfortunately, for some reason that I'm not aware of, he was moved to a different mosque somewhere, and I don't know where that is, so I've lost contact with this

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Imam who was interested in doing that, I don't know if that was the reason he was moved, but I was very surprised, oh, one of the things that he was saying over lunch that surprised me, which leads me back to the

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Universalist connection, was that he was saddened that I believed that he would be going to hell if he did not repent of Islam and embrace

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Christ as his one and only hope for salvation. He was saddened that I viewed him as headed for hell, and of course

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I spoke with him with the greatest level of love and respect

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I could muster, but I was being very truthful with him, and he did not share that opinion of me, he did not believe

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I was going to hell, which surprised me. Yeah, and I'd say a good 15 million, you know, 15 to 20 million of the population in Turkey, so have this more, it's a, it would, what would we call it, syncretistic, pluralistic, they combine, and who knows how they really developed, they've been there a thousand years, there have been

30:04

Christians, well, there's been Christians in the land of Asia Minor for 2 ,000 years nearly, with the first church being planted in Antioch, and then

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Paul making his journeys through Ephesus and other churches mentioned in John, the seven churches of Revelation, and so we know there's been

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Christians there, and we see without almost any doubt that the Christian ideas, and then probably

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Alexander the Great comes sweeping through, and he brings, this of course, he was pre -Christian, but you've got the east and the west caravans, you've got the east and the west transits, and so you have, you have almost like Hindu thought brought in to the

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Alevi thinking, and they love to say this comment, it's something like, from one drop, a drop, and they believe that all humans are just a drop from the ocean of God.

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We're going to be going to our first break right now, if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

31:10

c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com. We already have some listeners waiting to have their questions asked and answered, and please be patient with us.

31:20

Please give us, as always, at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA, and only remain anonymous if the question involves a personal and private matter, or if it in some way involves your own safety.

31:33

Even our guest today is using a pseudonym, which he writes under, so I can fully understand why you might want to write in anonymously, but it's chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

31:47

Don't go away, God willing, we will be right back after these messages from our sponsors with more of James Wright and a

31:54

Christian reads the Quran. I am

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Dan also has a master's degree in theology. Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states.

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He represents many Christians in serious injury matters all over the country. Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer.

34:57

He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy, and currently his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for $1 million or more, and in approximately 10 different states.

35:11

In Illinois, his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history. In New York, his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the law journal.

35:22

If you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state, I recommend that you call

35:28

Dan. Consultations are free. There is no fee unless you win. Dan Buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878.

35:38

1 -800 -669 -4878. Or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarmsen at gmail .com.

35:48

That's chrisarmsen at gmail .com. My name is

35:55

Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.

36:01

I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the Doctor of Ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

36:08

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

36:14

It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in Midtown Manhattan.

36:20

You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc .nyc.

36:28

They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

36:34

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit

36:44

New Covenant Church, NYC. Again, their information can be found at www .ncc

36:51

.nyc. Have a great day. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,

37:37

Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read.

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He who never quotes will never be quoted. He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

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Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. And don't forget to continue to pray for Mike Gaydosh, the founder of Solid Ground Christian Books.

38:42

He goes in for a very serious, dangerous, complicated, and delicate open heart surgery.

38:49

He is going in for surgery prep on Thursday the 23rd of August, and then he is actually having surgery,

39:00

God willing, on the morning, first thing in the morning on Friday, August 24th. Please pray that he rises up from that hospital bed when the surgery is completed.

39:11

A stronger and healthier man physically than he has been in years, and also a stronger and healthier man spiritually as a result of the trial that our loving and merciful and gracious sovereign

39:20

Lord has placed him in. And we will keep you updated on the progress of Mike Gaydosh.

39:26

Please continue to pray for him. He's very valuable to me personally and to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We are now back with our guest today,

39:34

James Wright, author of A Christian Reads the Quran, Honest Reading and Honest Reflection.

39:43

And if you have a question, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.

39:49

In studio with me is my webmaster and co -host for the day, Eric Nielsen.

39:56

And Eric Nielsen is also an elder at the Community Evangelical Free Church of Champaign -Urbana,

40:02

Illinois. Not to belabor the issue of Pastor Andrew Brunson, but I just had a couple more questions before we move on from that topic.

40:13

Do you know, I mean, I don't know if it would be purely speculation or if you have any evidence to come to this conclusion, but do you know if if his quote quote

40:24

Christianizing of those whom he shares friendships and neighborhoods with in in Turkey, do you think that that was a motivation for the authorities in Turkey to trump up a charge against them?

40:40

What do you what would on earth would be the reason for this government to create such a conspiratorial charge against them?

40:50

Well during the break while we were listening to the advertisers,

40:55

I was looking up Revelation 2, 8 to 11, which is the message to the

41:03

Church of Smyrna. And for your listeners who may or may not know where Andrew Brunson serves,

41:09

Izmir, is Smyrna. It's the biblical city mentioned here in Revelation in chapter 2.

41:18

And it's just fascinating to me to read it again. So you have you have

41:24

Andrew Brunson. He's in prison in Smyrna. When he was in the prison, facilities itself, that was just outside of the city of Smyrna.

41:32

Now he's back on home arrest, as I understand, and his home is in Smyrna. The church that he planted,

41:37

Resurrection Church, is in Smyrna. And it really struck me to look again here.

41:43

Three things listed. Slander, those who say they are

41:49

Jews but are not, but are the synagogue of Satan, they will slander the believers. And that's what's happened to Andrew.

41:56

He's been slandered. And then it says, I will allow some of you to be put in prison.

42:02

He's been put in prison and has had suffering. And it also says there will be affliction and poverty in Smyrna.

42:08

And, you know, I don't know how that works, but it's just interesting to me that these specific trials, and a lot of people also don't realize that the first Christian martyr outside of Jerusalem, outside of Israel, the first Christian martyr was

42:24

Polycarp, I think second century, in Smyrna. So it's a very historically and biblically significant place.

42:34

The slander against him was particularly, it's slanderous false information.

42:39

It's an untrue accusation, slander. He's been slandered, heavily slandered. And that false accusation

42:46

I mentioned earlier about the propaganda machine that has been churning to really get a good insight into that, you know,

42:53

I just encourage people to read my book, whether I wrote it or not, it doesn't matter. But the fact is that there haven't been many books written like that, into the level of analyzing from a

43:01

Christian point of view, the way the church is treated in Turkey. But in particular, the idea was, and has been for many years, that Christians, missionaries,

43:11

Christian workers are there to divide the country by winning people to Christ, and then setting them at odds with their

43:18

Muslim neighbors. And he was particularly accused of trying to convert Kurdish people to Christ, to create this sort of Kurdish political state.

43:30

And, well, I just ask our listeners to pray for Pastor Bronson, and we will join you in giving updates when we have them.

43:46

And we just, it is very, it is always very, it is always very heart -wrenching when you hear about a servant of Christ being falsely persecuted, and we just pray that the

43:59

Lord will bring himself praise, honor, and glory through this situation. Amen.

44:05

And, well, I'm going to take our first listener question. Gordy in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, says,

44:15

I want to commend you for your careful handling of this apologetic subject.

44:22

You, along with Dr. James R. White and Dr. Tony Costa, are among a very small handful of prominent

44:28

Christians willing to challenge the teachings of Islam with respect, and yet without compromise.

44:35

Is there a way you typically would start a spiritual conversation with a Muslim, or is it each, or is each case different?

44:44

And then he has one more question that I will follow up with after you finish answering. Okay. Well, thank you.

44:51

I appreciate that. I don't, certainly don't feel I deserve to be in that group of names just mentioned, but I think

44:59

I lean toward the second answer. Each case is a bit unique, but let me just say, you're not going to get anywhere until you start the conversation.

45:09

So engaging, talking, how are you, what's your name? I mean, these sound like elementary steps, and they are, but without those first engage, those first points of just breaking down the barriers, we're never going to get anywhere.

45:27

I try to look in every conversation, I try to look for a hook, a handle that I can then use to launch into a better presentation of my testimony, of the testimony of the gospel.

45:45

So for example, I've met a man and was looking for, and this is in Turkey, I met a

45:52

Turkish man at a park, and it turned out he lived near the city of Osos. Those who know their

45:58

Bibles know that Osos was where Paul joined up with Luke and the others after he traveled from Alexandria to Troas, and he caught a boat there with them.

46:06

So I said, you know, there's so many places in Turkey, and of course, living in Turkey gives me lots of opportunities to find those hooks.

46:13

And then that led, and then that piqued his interest, and it turned out, amazingly enough, this man who was visiting from near Osos, he was visiting

46:20

Istanbul, he knew a friend of mine, a good friend of mine, and had been in a house church meeting for two or three meetings.

46:28

So God used that little point of contact. I'm always looking for those points of contact as keys to open up a spiritual conversation.

46:39

And the second question, the last question, Gordy in Mechanicsburg asks is, also, how are those conversations different in the

46:50

United States as compared to Asia? Well, generally, people living in this country, generally, probably are a bit more in protective mode, because they're an extreme minority, and they maybe are separated from their family of origin, their home of origin, their community of origin, which usually puts tremendous pressure on Muslims.

47:21

Muslims are a collective people, a community, identity people. Interesting thing

47:28

I heard once, we say, I am, I think, therefore, I am, and Muslims say, we are, therefore,

47:35

I am. They draw their identity. Their very existence is the existence of the community.

47:43

Once they're in the States, they may be separated from that, and you may find that you have better opportunities.

47:48

If you can, usually, it's not so good to try to pursue deeper conversations in public, more privately over tea or coffee or something.

47:57

But I think you'll find that there are people who are asking. Let me also just say, I was with a group

48:03

I mentioned earlier about being with a group at a university town, and I was encouraging them that the Iranians in particular, there's a revival in Iran, probably one of the largest revivals right now in the world.

48:15

I would pinpoint China and Iran as two of the greatest points of revival in the world right now, and Iranians are just, a lot of Iranians are fruit ripe for picking.

48:25

So, if you know Iranians, don't hesitate to share the word of God with them. Well, thank you,

48:32

Gordy, and since you live very close to Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service on North Hanover Street in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, swing by there

48:41

Monday to pick up your free copy of A Christian Reads the Quran by our guest,

48:47

James Wright. And we thank James for providing us with these free copies.

48:53

And keep listening to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, keep sending us great questions and keep spreading the word there in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania about the show and beyond.

49:06

Let's see here, we have Joey in Clifton, New Jersey, and I have to enlarge

49:15

Joey's email because the font is very small, so excuse me while I do this.

49:23

And Joey in Clifton, New Jersey says, Dear James, I have some

49:28

Muslim friends whom I care for and who, like many Muslims, are not violent people.

49:36

Their reading of the Quran does not lead them to violence. And yet, when I read the

49:41

Quran objectively, it seems to me it contains some verses that teach the concept of subjugation of non -Muslims, even if necessary, to the point of using violence.

49:55

I believe this is the reason why Islam has, throughout the centuries, always had some factions that rule by the sword and by the exercising of power.

50:06

I would like to know if you agree with this assessment. Yes, you're right, that's my simple answer.

50:16

Yeah, that is always the subject of dispute amongst not only

50:25

Christians, but Muslims, as we interact not only face -to -face in debates, in public -moderated, officially organized debates, but also just casual exchanges and so on.

50:42

And in the media, because there are all different kinds of Muslims, there are all different kinds of points of view, even within Christendom.

50:50

And you have the most frequently brought up charge, and I'd like you to respond to this, by the more aggressive

51:03

Christians, or professing Christians, who oppose Islam.

51:08

They basically will say, we can never trust a Muslim because of taqiyah.

51:15

They are given permission to lie, so we will never know, really, if their pledge or claim to be non -violent is true or not.

51:24

At any moment when we're talking to a Muslim, we could be face -to -face with somebody who has bombs strapped to them and we don't even realize it.

51:32

So how do you respond to that very common statement? And of course, I'm assuming at times it could be true, but if you could respond.

51:42

Yeah, wow, that's a big one, isn't it? I think

51:48

I mentioned on the last show we did together, a couple years ago, that it helps me from time to time to just get back to a real basic mental categories

51:57

I have. One is Islam, for many people, is moralistic monotheism.

52:03

So for all your listeners out there taking, I'm a bit of a teacher, and so I like to give noteworthy things to write down.

52:10

Moralistic monotheism. And many Muslims are in that category, and apparently Muhammad himself, at the inception of his preaching and teaching time, he was promoting what we could just call moralistic monotheism.

52:25

We could give evidences of that out of the Quran when we talk more about the book. And then there's the second category, which is militant monotheism.

52:33

And how do those two pieces of category, how do those two categories fit together? How do those two layer on top of each other?

52:42

How do they interact? What's going on bringing, you know, with people sort of in one category or the other or between the two or drifting between the two?

52:53

So this is the big question. Moralistic monotheism, militaristic monotheism, both are monotheistic in a radicalized sense.

53:03

They don't acknowledge the trinity. They've borrowed tons of time. We'll talk more about this with the book in a minute, but they've borrowed tons of concepts and scriptures and biblical stories straight out of the

53:14

Jewish and the Christian text. So you've got the moralistic component, but when did the militaristic component come in?

53:22

Well, you've got militarism in the Old Testament. That's one of the favorite attacking points for the new atheists.

53:28

They love to attack this point. In fact, I was with a guy at a conference recently, and I don't know if he was even a real believer or not.

53:36

He was there reporting on human rights and things. And he said, well, now you've written your book, A Christian Reads the Quran. You're going to write a book called

53:42

A Christian Reads the Old Testament. You're going to figure out a way to explain all these, you know, genocide and killing the

53:48

Amorites and this and that and driving people out of the Holy Land. And I was a little bit amazed that it was even an issue for a guy at this particular conference

53:56

I was at. I didn't expect it because of the nature of the conference. But there is militarism in the

54:03

Old Testament in particular. There is militarism. The big difference is one is limited in time and space. The other is global.

54:11

Yeah, and my friend David Wood, I think very appropriately phrases it that the violence that we see in the

54:21

Old Covenant were not the last marching orders of Jesus Christ. Yeah.

54:27

And, you know, I could talk, we could talk all day about this. Let me just say my best explanation for what is the difference between moralistic monotheism and militaristic is the absence of a caliphate.

54:43

And most Muslims will say, well, I can't legitimately go on any more militaristic campaigns until I have theocratically legitimate decree or some kind of directive from the caliph.

54:58

Well, there is no caliph. There's the great vacuum. And guess who caused the vacuum of the caliphate? Kemal Mustafa Ataturk in 1922,

55:08

I think it was. Another Turk. Why the Turks have their role in world history,

55:13

I don't know, but it's certainly there. And so when the caliphate was ended, the last caliph ended with the end of the

55:20

Ottoman Empire. Turkey set up a secular government. There's been no caliphate for now almost 100 years.

55:27

Turkey is looking forward to and there's signs all over Turkey that say, hey, this 2022 2022, they're looking forward to the 100th year.

55:36

And there is a lot of speculation that they want to reestablish the caliphate. And when the caliphate is reestablished, then there can be a legitimate authorized legitimate jihad.

55:50

And people have to and people have to obey it. Muslims have to obey jihad. But if just some local yokel stands up and says, hey, let's go fight jihad, well, it's not legitimate because he doesn't have the authority, the mantelpiece of the caliphate.

56:02

And that's similar to a pope and a king at the same time. We have to go to our midway break right now. Our midway break is longer than the other breaks because of the fact that Grace Life Radio 90 .1

56:12

FM in Lake City, Florida, who airs this program twice a day and morning drive and evening drive in a rerun format.

56:19

They require this break so that they can air their own commercials and public service announcements. So please be patient as we take this break.

56:27

Also, use this time to not only write down information provided by our advertisers so that you can patronize them.

56:33

Also write down questions for our guest James Wright on A Christian Reads the Koran or on Islam in general.

56:41

And by the way, Joey in Clifton, New Jersey, make sure you send us your complete mailing address so that we can have

56:48

A Christian Reads the Koran shipped out to you by our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

56:53

Don't go away. Oh, by the way, our email address if you want to join us on the air, too. It's ChrisArnson at gmail .com.

56:59

ChrisArnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name, city and state and country of U .S .A.

57:04

Don't go away. We'll be right back with more of James Wright in A Christian Reads the

57:10

Koran. One sure way all

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Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.

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I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

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I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

59:05

It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in Midtown Manhattan.

59:11

You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc .nyc.

59:20

They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

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If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit

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New Covenant Church, NYC. Again, their information can be found at www .ncc

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.nyc. Have a great day. Unwavering Proclamation of the

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01:03:48

Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here. I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years.

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Dan also has a master's degree in theology. Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states.

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He represents many Christians in serious injury matters all over the country. Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer.

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He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy, and currently his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for $1 million or more, and in approximately 10 different states.

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Dan Buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878, 1 -800 -669 -4878, or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:05:20

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. Hi, Phil Johnson here.

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I'm executive director of John MacArthur's media ministry, Grace to You, and I'm also an occasional guest on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

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So I'm delighted that from January 17th through the 19th, my friend Chris Arnzen and I will be heading down to Atlanta for the

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01:10:15

And you will also get free shipping on your order of $50 or more when you mention

01:10:22

Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio. You have to purchase a minimum of $50 to get the free book and to get the free shipping.

01:10:29

And you must mention Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio. Before we return to our guest

01:10:34

James Wright and his book, A Christian Reads the Quran, we just have a couple of announcements in regard to special events that are coming up.

01:10:44

First of all, my friend Dr. James R. White, unlike my guest who is

01:10:50

James Wright, I have to keep repeating that, James White is going to be speaking alongside with Dr.

01:10:57

Michael L. Brown. Dr. James White is of Alpha Omega Ministries and Dr. Michael L. Brown is from the

01:11:03

FIRE School of Ministry and also the Line of FIRE radio program. They are going to be speaking at Gordon -Conwell

01:11:11

Theological Seminary's Jacksonville, Florida campus, God willing, on Friday, September 7th at 6 30 p .m.

01:11:19

The theme is A House -Mended Christian Unity in a Culture of Outrage.

01:11:25

And if you would like to register for this event, which is free of charge, go to SwitzerlandCommunityChurch .org,

01:11:34

SwitzerlandCommunityChurch .org. They are the church that is co -sponsoring this event along with Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.

01:11:43

Then the following day, Saturday, September 8th, also at 6 30 p .m.,

01:11:48

Dr. James R. White and Michael L. Brown are teaming up again. They are debating on the same team against two professing

01:11:57

Christians who are also ordained ministers and these two gentlemen who are professing

01:12:05

Christians they are debating are also homosexuals and they defend homosexuality as being something that is not a sin, something that does not displease

01:12:17

God. The debate theme is Is Homosexuality Consistent with New Testament Obedience?

01:12:24

That's the debate between Dr. James R. White and Michael L. Brown and Rev. Patrick Rogers of the

01:12:31

United Church of Christ in Fort Lauderdale, Florida and the Rev. Duane J.

01:12:37

Robinson of the Called Out Believers in Christ Fellowship of Jacksonville, Florida. That's Saturday, September 8th, 6 30 p .m.

01:12:46

at the Switzerland Community Church in Switzerland, Florida, a suburb of Jacksonville and also nearby

01:12:54

St. John's, Florida. For more information, you will also go to SwitzerlandCommunityChurch .org,

01:13:00

SwitzerlandCommunityChurch .org. Then, coming up in November on the 9th and the 10th, the

01:13:07

Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals is having their annual Quakertown Conference on Reform Theology on the theme

01:13:13

The Glory of the Cross. It will be held at the Grace Bible Fellowship Church of Quakertown, Pennsylvania. The speakers include

01:13:20

David Garner, Ray Ortlund, Richard Phillips, Timothy Gibson, and Carlton Nguyen. To register, go to AllianceNet .org,

01:13:26

AllianceNet .org. Then, coming up in January, I am looking forward to being there for the third year in a row along with my webmaster, who's co -hosting with me today,

01:13:39

Eric Nielsen, and his wife, Sandy. We will be manning the Iron Sherpins Iron Exhibitors booth at the

01:13:46

G3 Conference in College Park, Georgia from Thursday, January 17th through Saturday, January 19th.

01:13:55

They are expecting between 4 ,000 and 5 ,000 people to attend this conference. By the way, the

01:14:01

G3 stands for Gospel, Grace, and Glory, and the theme is The Mission of God, A Biblical Understanding of Missions.

01:14:08

And, by the way, there is an exclusively Spanish -speaking edition of the conference being held on Wednesday, January 16th, so tell your

01:14:16

Spanish -speaking and bilingual friends about that. But the English -speaking conference that I am going to be attending,

01:14:27

God willing, has a very long roster, once again, featuring such speakers as Dr.

01:14:32

James R. White, John Piper, Stephen Lawson, Voti Baucom, Conrad M.

01:14:38

Bayway, Tim Challies, who promoted the book that we mentioned earlier,

01:14:44

The Martyrs of Malata, by our guest, James Wright, Phil Johnson, the

01:14:50

Executive Director of Grace TU Ministries, the ministry of John MacArthur, and we have

01:14:55

Todd Friel from Wretched TV and Wretched Radio on the roster, and Stephen J.

01:15:01

Nichols, the President of Reformation Bible College, the Bible College founded by the late Dr. R .C. Sproul in Ligonier Ministries, and many, many more are on this roster.

01:15:09

If you would like to attend, and if you would also like to man your own exhibitors booth there, because, as I said, there's going to be between 4 ,000 and 5 ,000 people there,

01:15:20

God willing, go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com, and tell them, please, that you heard about the conference from Chris Arnson on Iron Trip and Zion Radio, and that goes for all of our advertisers when you respond to them.

01:15:34

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01:16:38

Now, we are back with our discussion today with James Wright on his new book,

01:16:43

A Christian Reads the Quran, Honest Reading, Honest Reflections. Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:16:51

If you have a question for our guest, that's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:16:56

Give us your first name, city, and state, and country of residence if you live outside the USA. Before I move on to any listener questions, or to get a more detailed description of your book,

01:17:08

A Christian Reads the Quran, I just have something to ask because there is a very sad situation going on in the body of Christ that you may be familiar with, where men and brethren who are former friends have a rift dividing them because some accusations are being hurled against Christian apologists, and I might as well name one of them, my friend

01:17:36

Dr. James R. White, that he is being too kind and charitable to Muslims when he is involved in debates with them.

01:17:45

Dr. White, I know for first hand, is not an ecumenist. He's not even an ecumenist with Roman Catholics who are loyal to the

01:17:53

Council of Trent, so he's certainly not going to be an ecumenist with Muslims who deny the deity of Christ and salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

01:18:04

But it seems like a harsher approach is being demanded by some Christians, whether they're apologists or they just enjoy apologetics, and they have been very harsh in their criticisms against Dr.

01:18:17

White and anybody that would imitate him. Dr. White has said, look, I am just doing what

01:18:23

I believe is fair, and I'm treating my debate opponents the way

01:18:28

I am expecting them to treat me. I'm expecting them to know the facts about what

01:18:34

I believe, that they are not to exaggerate or even outright lie. I don't want them to use ad hominem remarks or to be mean -spirited, and therefore

01:18:45

I am treating them with the same dignity. And I know for a fact that he also makes it clear that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation.

01:18:56

There is no hope in having eternal life other than through the cross of Christ. So he has also claimed that he has heard from missionaries that they applaud him in this methodology or approach because they use the same methodology in the mission field.

01:19:14

It almost seems that the harsh approach is being used for some that have the luxury of living in a free nation like America, and they're not really in the trenches in countries under Sharia law.

01:19:29

So what are your comments on this? I've noticed some of that.

01:19:35

There's a whole spectrum of approaches. Nabil Qureshi took, I would say, more like an approach like James White trying to be very gracious and kind in his last video cast from his deathbed.

01:19:50

Nabil made another plea to be loving and kind to Muslims. I remember

01:19:57

Greg Livingstone at my candidate school 25 years ago said they're not always easy to love, but we recognize that.

01:20:11

There's on occasion hostility. There's opposition. There can be lots of reasons to just write, just say,

01:20:23

I'm done with this. Just write it off. This is ridiculous. There's no rationality. There's no give and take.

01:20:29

There's no critical thinking. There's no two -way street. It's all a one -way street in many conversations.

01:20:39

But who are we? We're sons and daughters of the king. We're representing

01:20:44

Jesus Christ who on the cross said, Father, forgive them. They don't know what they're doing.

01:20:51

So what spirit are we operating in? I'll be honest. I love debate. I love watching

01:20:57

James, for example. I watch David Wood. I actually consulted some of Nabil's material and David Wood's material.

01:21:05

AnsweringIslam .com is a good resource. There's a lot of resources I consulted when

01:21:10

I was working through my book. But at the end of the day, one -on -one, especially when you're face -to -face in person, isn't this person created in the image of God?

01:21:23

Isn't this a fellow human being? Isn't this someone that may receive Jesus and be with me in eternity and heaven?

01:21:30

So how am I going to treat them? Right, and the thing that is interesting to me is that it is as if these people who

01:21:38

I am certain about, not all of them obviously, and I can't say that I'm certain about all of them, but many of the people,

01:21:47

I am sure, who take the harsher approach or who are demanding a harsher approach when confronting

01:21:56

Muslims in debate, I'm sure, at least I'm confident, to give them the benefit of the doubt, that if they had a

01:22:02

Muslim neighbor who said, can I discuss my religion with you? And they would say, sure.

01:22:09

And they invited them over for a meal. I'm sure that they would be behaving with this person in much the same way that Dr.

01:22:16

White is in his debates or dialogues with Muslims. And why is it wrong if you were to film or record that exchange that you're having in your living room?

01:22:26

Would that be wrong? Because basically you would have to be logically consistent. If you're against that friendlier approach to apologetics with Muslims, then if you're against that, then you must be against treating

01:22:43

Muslims that way in your living room. Why would they be different unless you would have to come to the conclusion, well, I would never film or record such a conversation with the permission of my

01:22:51

Muslim neighbor. Am I making sense here? Yep, I agree. I think

01:22:57

I see your point. I agree. We have, before we move on, we'll let you for quite a while, especially during the final half hour, have more of a concentration on your book,

01:23:09

Christian Reads the Quran. But we have a listener in Hilltop Lakes, Texas, Linda, who says, we have a friend from Kazakhstan, who is a

01:23:21

Muslim, speaks Russian, but lives here in Texas. I purchased a bilingual

01:23:26

English -Russian Bible for her, but I haven't given it to her. Please have your guest advise me on the best way to give her this gift, to encourage her to read it and to testify to her.

01:23:39

Thank you very much for dealing with this most needed but difficult topic, Linda in Hilltop Lake, Texas.

01:23:46

Yeah, you know, honestly, after living so many years among Muslims, they are very seasonal -minded.

01:23:55

They're, you could even say liturgical -minded in an Islamic liturgical calendar.

01:24:01

Everything rotates around the big events. And the big events are one month of fasting,

01:24:07

Ramadan, Ramadan, Ramadan, one month of fasting. Then after that, at the end of that, is what they call the sugar holiday, or it's a end of the fast feast, time to just celebrate that the fast is over.

01:24:26

Then, I don't remember the numbers, but some period after that is Qurban.

01:24:33

That's when they remember, by sacrificing an animal, they remember, they commemorate

01:24:40

Abraham taking his son to the hilltop, and then God providing a ram, and they commemorate that with the

01:24:50

Feast of Sacrifice. Eid al -Adha,

01:24:56

I think is how they say it in Arabic. We say Qurban Bayram in Turkish. It means the Feast of the Sacrifice.

01:25:02

Everything circulates around those. It's like their Christmas and Easter, right? Well, we have

01:25:08

Christmas and Easter, but we also have Pentecost. We also have lots of other holidays. So, I will tell people weeks before Easter and weeks after I'm celebrating, and may

01:25:17

I give you a Bible. May I give you our holy book as I'm celebrating? I milk it for weeks and weeks and weeks.

01:25:25

This is a natural bridge to them. You're not manipulating. You're just simply saying, I'm entering your way of thinking, and a liturgical calendar is very important to you.

01:25:34

May I share something important out of my liturgical year, and this is what

01:25:40

I want to share with you is our holy book. I do that all the time. That's very, I use that all the time, and then maybe

01:25:46

I'll celebrate. It's kind of like in the closed countries where they have to meet in homes in secret, and when the secret police come around, they say, what are you doing here meeting in this house, all of you people?

01:25:59

Well, we're celebrating somebody's birthday. It just so happens every week is somebody's birthday. Well, thank you,

01:26:07

Linda, for the question, and you have also won a free copy of A Christian Reads the Quran by James Wright, and please give us your full mailing address in Hilltop Lakes, Hilltop Lakes, Texas, so we can have

01:26:22

CVBBS .com ship out that free book to you. All right, now, why is it that you felt a need to write the book

01:26:31

A Christian Reads the Quran, honest reading, honest reflection, even though there are many books out now, it seems, written by Christians that address the issue of Islam?

01:26:43

Why did you find this book to be a needed extra volume to further equip apologists and your average

01:26:51

Christian at large? Every, okay, every writer wants to have the unique book, the new unique thing.

01:27:00

That wasn't why I wrote this book, but I wrote this book in such a fashion that it is the unique book.

01:27:07

A friend of mine who's a Lebanese -American, works in Texas, has an international ministry equipping believers to reach out to Muslims as well as doing his own international outreach to Muslims, after looking at my book, he wrote and said, there's a plethora of books out there on Islam.

01:27:24

Yours are the only one in the world like it. And I've had that said over and over and over. So the question is, what makes mine different?

01:27:32

As best I can tell, I'm the only Christian that's ever written for Muslims. A book, chapter by chapter, following through the

01:27:39

Quran, reading the Quran, and then responding to the Quran, chapter by chapter, in order, verse by verse, not writing for Christians.

01:27:49

I'm not writing this book for Christians. It's, they're certainly a secondary audience. And I've got a

01:27:55

Chinese translator just wrote me today and said, we finished the Chinese translation. It will be disseminated across China, potentially, you know,

01:28:05

Lord willing, to equip tens of millions of Chinese people to reach Muslims through the internet.

01:28:11

It's been translated into Arabic. That was just completed last week. It's being translated into Turkish.

01:28:18

Lord willing, I've got an Urdu translation potentially in process.

01:28:24

We're just going to keep cranking out translators. Translations, I've been raising money. Amazingly, the

01:28:30

Chinese translator didn't even ask for anything, just started translating it immediately.

01:28:36

It's a unique book. And there were two things that kind of inspired it. One was there was a Muslim guy that wrote a book about Jesus.

01:28:43

A couple of Muslim guys have written books about Jesus. And they're Muslims writing for Christians. They're not writing a book step by step through the

01:28:50

New Testament, but they are writing about our Christ from their point of view, for us, for Christians.

01:28:59

And there's also a book out there, I think it's called The Infidel's Bible. And you can actually read the entire

01:29:05

New Testament online verse by verse. And then they have infidel question and comment, which I challenge people to get in and read that and respond to it.

01:29:13

We need to have answers to those atheistic, apologetic counterclaims.

01:29:19

So those are two ideas that started this book. We can't, every Muslim, former

01:29:25

Muslim that's a Christian now, they've all told me this. This has never been done.

01:29:33

Wow. Well, we are going to go to our final break right now. And it's going to be much briefer than the last one. If you have any questions to ask,

01:29:39

I would send them in immediately before we run out of time. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

01:29:46

Give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence. If you live outside the USA, only remain anonymous.

01:29:52

If your question involves a personal and private matter, don't go away. We'll be right back with James Wright and more of A Christian Reads the

01:30:00

Quran. My name is Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries.

01:30:08

I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

01:30:13

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

01:30:20

It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a reformed Baptist church that meets in midtown

01:30:25

Manhattan. You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc

01:30:33

.nyc. They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

01:30:40

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit

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New Covenant Church, NYC. Again, their information can be found at www .ncc

01:30:57

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That's lindbrookbaptist .org. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the last 90 minutes and the next 25 minutes to come has been and will continue to be

01:38:25

James Wright, and we are discussing A Quran. If you'd like to join us, speak now or forever hold your peace because we're rapidly running out of time.

01:38:35

Send in your email to chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

01:38:41

And we have John in Bangor, Maine, who asks, what are the primary things that create a chasm between Islam and Christianity where we should focus most of our attention when dialoguing with Muslims?

01:38:57

Okay. That would be about five more programs, I guess. Well, obviously the big chasm is who

01:39:07

Jesus is. And focusing on what he did is a powerful starting point.

01:39:16

He raised the dead. The Quran says that as well. He was born of a virgin. That set him apart from all the rest of the human race.

01:39:24

No one else has ever been born of a virgin. Without a human father. Adam was created, of course, but Adam and Eve were created, but no one's ever been born without a father.

01:39:35

That would indicate an earthly father. The question then is, well, who was his father? And then that is leading us towards the trinity little by little.

01:39:44

So that's a big question, is who is Jesus, who is God, and how does the nature of God fit together with Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?

01:39:52

And the big criticism Muslims put against this is that the

01:39:59

Bible has been changed. But that doesn't square even with the Quran that over and over commends the

01:40:05

Bible. Go to those who have the scriptures, called the Taurat, Zebur, Ninjil. Go to those people who have the

01:40:12

Bible, the Old and New Testament. Go to them and ask what they have, ask what they read. That doesn't mean that the

01:40:20

Quran is correct, that it commends the Bible, but it shows that the early people were commending the

01:40:27

Bible, and the Bible that they had is the same one that we have today. We have no evidence of any change from 600 years before Muhammad to 1 ,400 years after Muhammad.

01:40:38

The texts are all the same. So somehow those topics have to be covered. Yes, and is not

01:40:44

Christianity really the only religion where people are viewed, humanity is viewed, rightly so, as being deserving and worthy of nothing but hell, and yet God extends grace and mercy to those whom he sees fit to extend it to, not because of their loveliness or deserving this kindness, but just because of his sovereignty and mercy and grace, whereas other religions, in some way, men have to merit or earn their way to heaven, or they're viewed as not worthy of hell.

01:41:30

Yeah, that's right. Who is man? That's a big question. What is our real nature?

01:41:37

And helping Muslims understand through, you know, sometimes a good story like the woman at the well, that we're not deserving.

01:41:46

We all have some point in our life where we have failed, and that God is more than happy to forgive this.

01:41:54

Oh, well, he forgives. Sure, God forgives, that Muslims are quick to say. Sure, God forgives, he's forgiving. Okay, well, how does he do that?

01:42:02

How does he just absorb, you know, does it just go away, sort of magically vanish? Something has to be done with the sin, the punishment, and we as Christians have the answer to that.

01:42:14

He took that on himself, on the cross. Our friend from Hilltop Lakes, Texas, Linda, has another question, and since she is such a blessing to Iron Shepherd and Zion Radio, her and her husband

01:42:29

Glenn regularly contribute to us, and we thank God for her and him in ways that we can't describe.

01:42:38

But I will give the grace to Linda to have a second question asked.

01:42:44

Actually, it wouldn't be grace because she deserves it. But Linda says, thank you so much,

01:42:50

Chris. I believe this book will be an answer to our prayers and was his answer to my first question, as was his first answer to my first question, meaning your answer,

01:43:01

James. Another question, we have a young business friend from Pakistan raised as a

01:43:07

Muslim. Now he considers himself an agnostic. We are reading, learning about Islam, waiting for the right time to speak to him about our

01:43:18

Lord. He has known great prosperity in his business, but in the past few years he has known great hard times.

01:43:30

My prayer has been that the Lord will draw him in these lean times of great need.

01:43:36

Can your guest give more insight on how to converse with him about the

01:43:41

Lord? Thank you again for this invaluable insight. With prayers for this ministry,

01:43:47

Linda from Hilltop Lakes, Texas. Thank you. Just a quick answer is to offer to pray for him and say we love you, we care about you, and our relationship with Jesus, with God through Jesus, our faith.

01:44:07

We believe in praying for others and we would like to be praying for you. Offer to pray for Muslims, that's fine.

01:44:13

Many times they ask for prayer, actually, and this can maybe open up more opportunity to share the good news with him.

01:44:23

Well, thanks again, Linda. Let's see here, we have Bobby in Hartsdale, New York, and Bobby in Hartsdale, New York says, do you have any advice on any nations in this world where you would suggest

01:44:39

Americans not travel because of the dangers involved? And for those of us who are more brave, any advice for those who intend to travel into areas that might be more dangerous because of Islamic threat?

01:44:55

I don't, you know, I follow occasionally, look at the, I think the Secretary of State offers travel warnings for every country in the world, offers status of what to expect, those tend to be pretty fair assessments, and I just say don't act obnoxious, you know, don't act too much like a proud individual, a proud patriot, doesn't matter where you're from, if it's

01:45:19

Mozambique or Zimbabwe, you can be comfortable in your identity, but we don't have to broadcast it around as though we're superior.

01:45:28

But I'm assuming, especially with a Christian, you would obviously not suggest that they hide their faith or that they are not more concerned about the eternal souls of those they meet than their own lives?

01:45:46

Should we not freely proclaim Christ, especially when obvious opportunities are being provided by him providentially?

01:45:56

Absolutely, of course, and, you know, that should go without saying, but also to say that many times

01:46:04

Muslims are more interested to talk about, we could say religion, to talk about God, to talk about the existence of spiritual realities, many times

01:46:15

Muslims are more interested to talk about these things than secularized people. And I guess that is another reason why it's important for Christians to be educated properly.

01:46:29

I have heard from folks like James White, who I trust, that there are tools out there being offered in print and other media where there are exaggerations, there are half -truths and outright lies written by professing

01:46:50

Christians about Islam, and you're not going to get anywhere, I'm assuming you would agree, by speaking to a

01:46:59

Muslim and throwing things at him that he knows are not true, and then therefore he's not going to listen to anything else you say, because he's going to think that you're either stupid or a liar.

01:47:12

Yeah. One of the reasons I wrote this book comes from Acts 17, and Paul is in the city of Athens, he observes their religiosity, he observes their philosophers, there's

01:47:23

Epicureans, there's Stoics, there's the Areopagus, and he quotes to them one of their own poets, he starts with where they are, he says, you've got this altar, and then he quotes what's written on the altar, to an unknown god, which is the word theos, to an unknown theos, it's the same exact word in Greek as we use for the other places that talk about the triune god, theos, which incidentally is one reason why

01:47:51

I'm not averse to using the word Allah, but the reason the book,

01:47:57

I wanted to take the book, I wanted to start with where the people are, and I wrote this book thinking,

01:48:05

I'm showing them some respect by paying attention to their world, I'm showing them respect enough to read their book, their own book, and read it like I put on the cover, honest reflection, so I'm not trying to attack it,

01:48:20

I'm not even, I'm trying to actually set aside my prejudices, set aside my presupposition, my assumptions about their book, and read it, and I had never read the

01:48:31

Quran that way before, I went through it step -by -step, word -by -word, I don't read Arabic, I know some

01:48:37

Arabic, I can hand -pick my way through some of the alphabet, but now with Arabic interlinear

01:48:43

Qurans on the internet, it's very easy to do interlinear studies, plus I do read Turkish, and I do read some other languages better than Arabic, and I could do word studies to really try to get to what's being said here in their book, and then honestly it was to help them know their own book, many

01:49:01

Muslims don't know their own book, and I want them to know what's in their own book,

01:49:06

I start with the Turkish people, that's where I live, and I want the Turkish people who have, many of them have no clue really what's in their own book.

01:49:14

Eric Nielsen, my co -host today, here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, many of our listeners may be surprised, unless they live here or in the area, that there are many

01:49:25

Muslims here in Carlisle, in fact I've noticed a growing number, whether or not there is a growing number, or whether or not

01:49:33

I'm just providentially seeing them more frequently for some reason, but I'm talking about even women with burqas and things like that.

01:49:42

In your area of Champaign -Urbana, Illinois, are you seeing

01:49:48

Muslims in the community at all? Well, it's interesting,

01:49:53

I actually live in a town that is named Muhammad. Really? That's right,

01:49:59

I remember now you saying that. It was actually named by the Freemasons, not by Muslims, but we are a bedroom community of the

01:50:08

University of Illinois, and the University of Illinois of course attracts people from many different nations, and so yes, we have a fairly large population of Muslims.

01:50:19

My younger brother's best friend growing up was Muslim. We have a mosque locally, and we have a number of our people at church interact with Muslims.

01:50:37

I had a question, James, about your book and about using it.

01:50:44

So, say that you are a Christian, and you have somebody that you know is a

01:50:52

Muslim, and you would like to give them this book, or you would like to open a dialogue, but you yourself do not know very much about the

01:51:00

Quran, you haven't read it yourself. Is your book a good starting point for that?

01:51:06

Yes, my book is like an iPod app. I want this to be something people can, so to speak, literally,

01:51:14

I guess in a sense, because there's also the electronic version, but download this, get the hard copy of it, use it as a tool to say, look,

01:51:22

I've been reading about your book, the Quran. In fact, I've been reading the Quran with this book, and this is fascinating, you know.

01:51:30

The book was written and shared with Muslims. My son shared it with his roommate. He didn't read the whole thing.

01:51:37

He's a college kid, probably doesn't read a lot of anything at this point in life, but it's designed to, you know, obviously

01:51:44

I'm not interested in making money off this book. I really couldn't care less about the money side of it.

01:51:51

It costs money to print it and so forth, but I want this book to just be just disseminated like a flood so that Muslims are getting this book, and whether they read a little bit of it or a lot of it, they're starting to think about their book and what their book says and how it points to the message of Jesus.

01:52:12

You know, I think it was Martin Luther said, after he basically, you know, in typical Martin Luther style, he rails on that religion in some very strong language.

01:52:22

Then he turns around and he says something to the effect of the, under the providence of God, the Holy Spirit has left some clues in the

01:52:29

Quran that would be adequate for someone to then find their way to Jesus. And so that's the approach

01:52:34

I take, is let's start with your book, and I'm not necessary, there may be

01:52:40

Muslims that don't need a book like this, but there are many that this is the special sweetness that they find is drawing them into the next step.

01:52:51

So I wrote this book to use as a tool to give to Muslims to reach them for Jesus.

01:52:58

Well, thank you, Eric. Let's see here, we have BB in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, who asks,

01:53:06

Why is it that you use an alias? Are you really in fear for your life? No, no, there are many reasons writers use aliases.

01:53:15

C .S. Lewis wrote his book, A Grief Observed, under an alias. It was a very personal book.

01:53:21

And so I forget the name he used, which obviously had nothing to do with his security or his life. There's many reasons people use pen names.

01:53:29

I travel a lot and there could be sensitive situations. I just do it as security, an extra step of security.

01:53:38

Plus, I have a strange real name, and I don't need to say it here, but this is a nice pen name. Hey, look, there's a lot of guys on stage and in movies that use,

01:53:46

I think, John Denver used a pen name because his real name was, I mean, a stage name because his real name was quite odd.

01:53:54

Well, thank you, BB, and either stop by Cumberland County Bible Book Service, since you live in Cumberland County, or send us your full mailing address so we can have

01:54:06

A Christian Reads the Quran by James Wright shipped out to you by our friends at Cumberland County Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com.

01:54:15

I would like you now, James, to have five minutes uninterrupted, or actually more like three minutes uninterrupted, to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today.

01:54:27

I want to, obviously, my keen desire now is that people get this book and pass it along to Muslims.

01:54:38

I think this could be a powerful evangelistic tool, and we'd like to see it get into more languages.

01:54:45

There may be a way at the end we can have people get in touch with our ministry if they're interested. We would like to get it into Indonesian, we'd like to get it into Russian, Central Asian Russian, that's slightly more sensitive to the

01:54:58

Muslim readers. They change some of the language a bit. For example, instead of Isus, we'd change it to Esau, but we want to get it into as many languages, as many places as possible.

01:55:09

It's designed to help folks like many of your listeners today that wrote in and asked, how do

01:55:15

I reach out to Muslims? Here's a simple book. It's written for Muslims. It's not about Muslims.

01:55:20

It's not analyzing. There are many books out right now about the Quran and more coming out, but those are written for Christians.

01:55:27

This one's written very sympathetically by someone who, I started the book, Ramazan 2017.

01:55:34

I started the book while my neighbors were slaughtering a bull across the street from my apartment. My kids were fascinated to watch the bloods running down the street.

01:55:43

I'm writing, these are my neighbors. 100 % of the people around me are Muslims. I'm writing in that context.

01:55:50

These are the people I do business with every day, the people who fix my cars, the people that had a little skin cancer removed.

01:55:56

The doctor is a Muslim. Everybody is Muslim in my life. Everybody. They're not just incidental.

01:56:03

This is the life I'm living, and I want people, Christians in the West, Christians in Europe, Christians across the whole world, to vicariously enter in through that and share the gospel with Muslims.

01:56:17

That's a very keen point to this. I suppose, back to what we did in the first segment about Turkey, this is

01:56:27

God. God is sovereign, and God has put his magnifying glass on Turkey. We could just write this off as another geopolitical incident, but I think that'd be a grave mistake.

01:56:37

We need the church in America, the church in the West, still very strong under a lot of attack in a lot of ways, but still very strong.

01:56:44

The church in Turkey needs to get a hold of this, and don't just pray for Andrew Brunson. Pray that the church will take root among the

01:56:52

Turkic peoples. God has elevated this people group high, high, high right now in the public profile, and the church needs to recognize that he's doing that.

01:57:02

By the way, have you ever, this is something of infinitely less importance, but I was wondering if you ever had, and I'm not talking about tobacco here, but have you ever had

01:57:13

Turkish cigars? It's a delicacy. I've never heard of it. Now, it might be something that a

01:57:20

Turkish restaurant here in America named themselves this, but it's just phenomenal.

01:57:27

It's like a Turkish version of egg rolls, but I mean, it's out of this world.

01:57:33

Oh, that would probably be what they call Sigara Burek, which means a cigarette pastry.

01:57:38

Well, there you go. It's pretty close to Turkish cigars. Yep, that would be it.

01:57:45

Oh, I love those. But anyway, I know that you can get both of your books,

01:57:51

Martyrs of Malatya and A Christian Reads the Quran from Amazon, but do you have any other place that you would like our listeners to order these books?

01:58:01

Uh, you know, if a ministry contacts me and says, we want 100 books for giving to Muslims in Dearborn, Michigan or wherever,

01:58:10

I can get the books at a much cheaper rate than they're available on Amazon, so we'd want to make a way available for direct contact.

01:58:17

Actually, I think in the introduction to my book is my ministry email, info at christianreadsquran .com,

01:58:26

I think's what it is, but people can actually look that up on the cover, and that'd be a good way to get.

01:58:33

I also have some other books, a book about church planning in Kazakhstan, and a really good novel called

01:58:39

Child of Ishmael, they're all under the name James Wright, and they're all on Amazon. Well, for those of you who don't have the book to contact

01:58:47

James Wright or order these books, you can send me an email at chrisarnsen at gmail .com, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.

01:58:57

Don't forget that this Monday we have Dr. Tom Nettles returning to Iron Sherpa Design Radio to speak about the privilege, promise, power, and peril of doctrinal preaching.

01:59:09

I want to thank you so much, James Wright, for being our guest today. I want to thank everybody who wrote in questions today.

01:59:15

I want to thank my dear friend Eric Nielsen for being my co -host today. I hope you all have a safe and happy weekend and Lord's Day, and I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far greater

01:59:30

Savior than you are a sinner. We look forward to hearing from you and your questions next week on Iron Sherpa Design Radio.