August 17, 2018 Show with James Wright on “A Christian Reads the Qur’an: Honest Reading, Honest Reflection” AND “Reflections on Pastor Andrew Brunson & His Treatment by the Turkish Government”

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Our host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday on the 17th day of August 2018 and I'm so delighted to have as a returning guest today James Wright and he is not to be confused with my dear friend Dr. James R. White, W-H-I-T-E, who is a frequent guest on this program and who is also involved in upcoming events that I am orchestrating.

Our guest today is James Wright, W-R-I-G-H-T, and that's a pen name to protect his identity. He is the author of Martyrs of Malata, Martyrs for the Messiah in Turkey, The True Story of Three Christian Heroes Murdered for the Cause of the Gospel by Islamic Terrorists, which is a book listed on Tim Challey's 2015 New and Notable Books list, and James Wright has lived with his family in Central Asia among the people of the Tian Shan Mountains after the fall of communism in the 1990s.

Today we are going to be addressing his new book, A Christian Reads the Quran, Honest Reading, Honest Reflection, and then, time permitting, we will also share some reflections on Pastor Andrew Brunson and his treatment by the Turkish government.

But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio, James Wright.

Thank you. Thank you. It's a real privilege to be back, Chris.

I am as well, and in studio with me for the second day in a row, co-hosting with me is someone who is making a rare appearance for the second time this week in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. That is my webmaster, Eric Nielsen.

Without him, this program would not exist, I am certain. And Eric made the trip all the way from Illinois to Carlisle, Pennsylvania to update the equipment here in the studio for your listening pleasure.

And not only is Eric my webmaster, but he is also an elder at the Community Evangelical Free Church of Champaign-Urbana, Illinois. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back into the studio, Eric Nielsen.

Good to be here, Chris. And Eric, why don't you, once again, for those of our listeners who missed you yesterday, share with our listeners something about the Community Evangelical Free Church of Champaign-Urbana, Illinois.

Sure. We meet in.

Champaign, Illinois at Judah Christian School, and we have been meeting there for the past 30 years. One of the reasons that we meet in a Christian school, and have done that for so long, is that we want to use our resources for missions in the furtherance of the gospel, and God has blessed us to be able to do that.

And so if you happen to be in the Champaign-Urbana area at any time, anyone who is listening, we would be glad to have you visit. So I'm assuming you think that the.

Church where I'm a member should immediately cease the construction project on our 60-story cathedral here in Carlisle. I'm only kidding. Well, this is a very important subject that we are addressing today.

It's a subject, I think, that involves headlines that we see and hear about nearly daily involving Muslims globally, and I am speaking of the theme of James Wright's book, A Christian Reads the Quran, Honest Reading, Honest Reflection.

Let me give you our email address if you have a question for James on anything, basically, in regard to Islam and the Quran. The email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

Please give us at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA, and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's say you are a Muslim yourself and you don't want to draw attention to yourself, to your identity. I understand that, and I urge you, if you do disagree with our guest James Wright, to feel free to send in a question, and obviously also if you are living in an area that is dominated by Muslims and perhaps even is in an area that Sharia law exists, I fully understand that you would remain anonymous.

But otherwise, please give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence. Well, first of all, James, if you could start off with how you developed an interest and a compassion for the Muslim people and a passion to proclaim the gospel to them.

A Calling to Reach Muslims and Live Among Turkic Peoples

Yeah, just last.

Night I was with a small group here in the states. We're visiting in the U .S. for a while before we travel internationally again, and I was just reflecting with them. I cut my teeth on that by just going and hanging out at those student meetings, meeting Muslims.

Of course, they're eager to convert. And you actually uprooted your family and are now living in Central Asia among.

The people of the Tian Shan Mountains after the fall of communism in the 1990s. How long have you.

Been living there? To be more precise, we were living in that part of the world, the Tian Shan, at the big mountain range in Central Asia with Turkic peoples. We moved there in 1993, and I can say we're living in Istanbul.

I mean, I have been there for 16 years. Okay, yeah, I guess the bio I.

Read wasn't complete because it didn't include that information. But why the desire to uproot your family to move? And you could start with the Tian Shan Mountains, and then you can continue the story of how you wound up in Turkey.

Tell us about how your family reacted to this. And obviously, I'm assuming a part of this is because you do have a compassion for the Muslims and a passion.

To preach the gospel to them. Yeah, there's several key components. And one was taking a mission class called Prospective Concept of Taif Nei to all the nations, where Jesus said, take this gospel to all the nations.

And that idea is repeated again and again. And I'm not saying that's our fault necessarily. It's where we live. It's where we grow up. We're used to the local market on the corner, people in those groups, unless someone steps in from includes people, groups like, let's say, the 8 million people.

There were 50 believers in 1992, or 1990 50 million believers. Now there's 20 ,000. And we want to be part of that grand component was being challenged to the Muslim world by leaders such as Greg Livingstone, many people either afraid, extended and clearly, there will be from every other generation, how he did your family share your enthusiasm for this, these relocations?

Yeah, you know, not always easy, but okay, well,.

Let's start off by giving, giving our listeners some more detail about the surrounding areas and the peoples of the Tian Shan mountains and then update us to your current situation in Turkey.

The Turkic Peoples of Central Asia and the Move to Turkey

Yeah, you know, and that's, I thank you for asking that question, because I really appreciate being able to put a spotlight on what we call the Turkic people, Turkey. That's about 80 million people are a mixture of people living in Bulgaric peoples.

And they each blocks and you uprooted from.

The Central Asia area of the Tian Shan mountains, and you eventually made your way to Turkey. So if you could be more specific about the details and how the places are different.

The there's, there's several people groups, they slaughter these people heavily. And that's a unique situation among Turkey's unique economy. And if you could, before we get into the contents.

Of a Christian reads the Quran, tell our listeners, especially for the sake of those who missed your first interview with me on your book, martyrs of Malata martyred for the Messiah in Turkey, tell our listeners about that book, so that their appetites will be wedded so that they will not only look up the archives to hear that program that interview on Iron Trip and Zion radios website, but they can also have more of a desire to get ahold of the book themselves.

Martyrs of Malatya and the Persecution of Christians in Turkey

Yeah, and I actually, it's a little bit older book now. Not that much older, but the event happened in 2007. Two were the church planting. Very, I really want to all the dynamics that are playing out right now in this phony trial and phony accusations, all of that same playbook, the same game that they have a patient that I really put the Islamic seat and a house on the same track that's happening now.

Thankfully, Andrew wasn't at all. It's exactly the same. You know, since you brought up Andrew Brunson, Pastor Andrew Brunson, why don't we just continue.

With this thread for a little bit? And then we'll return to a Christian reads the Quran. What do you know about Pastor Brunson? Starting off with perhaps his denomination, or fellowship or association or brotherhood, whatever background he's from as a Christian pastor, I remember, I think that there may have been some confusion in the media.

There were some people, I believe, calling him a Mormon, if I'm not mistaken. But if you could tell us about his background and why he was imprisoned, and I know that now he's in house arrest, but tell us about all of those things, if you could, in summary form, of course.

Yes. Andrew Brunson, and I don't know him personally, we have to say, I would know for his character. He's been planting for over 20 years in his Evangelical Presbyterian Church. I may be wrong on that, but that's what his association is.

As a court case against him, one of the accusations was that he was conspiring with Mormons, and they were just turkey on the edge. He's been quite bold for many years. My understanding is he went in just thinking he was going to get his residency permit renewed.

And that's when he and his wife were both released. His wife was released shortly after that.

Now, how long was he actually imprisoned before being placed under house arrest?

Oh, the house arrest was in a cell we heard for a few people, and it had a gun.

Do you think that the sanctions against Turkey imposed by President Trump had something to do with him being placed under house arrest rather than remaining in prison?

Yeah, and I'm trying to follow the news.

And what is your level of optimism that the house arrest will even be brought to an end? And if you could also give us as much information as you can as to why you think this was trumped.

Up against him. Great question. It's been predictable for many years now. Arj is in the dossier. He got a lawyer in fault, though God is allowing many this. Now, how would you describe Turkey in its.

Severity of Islamic fundamentalism? I mean, would you say that Turkey is under Sharia law? You just surprised me about it being completely legal in Turkey to quote, quote, Christianize people. Yeah. So I'm assuming that it might be even less dangerous for a Christian to live there than Saudi Arabia, where people have been not so long ago threatened with execution.

And I had heard that that execution was called off of those missionaries that were intended to be executed for evangelizing the Muslim people there. But how can you compare Turkey with something like Saudi Arabia?

It's a different it's a I'm not a super missiologist. Practically reach. We'll get more into that with Saudi Arabia's Wahhabi Islam restorationist thing, if you will. In Turkey, they have these modernized Turkey.

You have the Alevi, the 15 to 20 million Alevis in Turkey, Shiite group.

That sounds something like another sect I'm familiar with. I in fact, I was treated to lunch by an imam in this sect. And it's the Amadeus. And I know I'm probably mispronouncing it. Also, I've heard it pronounced Ahmadi.

Yep. And it seemed I remember I was surprised having lunch with this Ahmadi imam who actually, believe it or not, gave James White, an invitation to preach in his mosque as long as his the members of his mosque could ask questions.

And then unfortunately, for some reason that I'm not aware of, he was moved to a different mosque somewhere. And I don't know where that is. So I've lost contact with this imam who was interested in doing that.

I don't know if that was the reason he was moved. But yeah, but but I was very surprised. Oh, one of the things that he was that he was saying to over lunch that surprised me, which leads me back to the universalist connection, was that he was saddened that I believed that he would be going to hell if he did not repent of Islam and embrace Christ as his one and only hope for salvation.

He was saddened that I viewed him as headed for hell. And of course, I spoke with him with the with the greatest level of love and respect I could muster. But I was being very truthful with him. And he he did not share that opinion of me.

He did not believe I was going to hell, which surprised me.

Yeah. And I'd say a good and who knows how they his journeys through. We see without a blee. Alexander the Great comes. You've got the East and the West. And so you have. And they love to say that you're dumb from one drop a drop.

First Break and Sponsor Messages

We're going to be going to our first break right now. If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. C h r i s a r n z e n and gmail .com.

We already have some listeners waiting to have their questions asked and answered. And please be patient with us. Please give us, as always, at least your first name, your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

And only remain anonymous if the question involves a personal and private matter or if it in some way involves your own safety. Even our guest today is using a pseudonym, which he writes under. So I can fully understand why you might want to write in anonymously.

But it's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away. God willing, we will be right back after these messages from our sponsors with more of James Wright and a Christian reads the Koran. Transcribed by https://otter .ai WMG .org forward slash Iron Sharpens to get your world trial and Dr. Sproul's book all free, no obligation with no credit card required.

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On Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. I'm so delighted that my friend Chris Arnzen will be heading down to Atlanta for the next G3 conference from January 17th to the 19th, 2019, where I'll be joining a very impressive lineup of speakers on the theme, a biblical understanding of missions.

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Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here. I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years. His name is Dan Buttafuoco. Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer, but not the type that typically comes to mind.

Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself. Recently, he wrote a book titled Consider the Evidence for the Bible. Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword. Dan also has a master's degree in theology.

Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states. He represents many Christians in serious injury matters all over the country. Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer. He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy, and currently his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for $1 million or more, and in approximately 10 different states.

In Illinois, his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history. In New York, his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the Law Journal. If you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state, I recommend that you call Dan.

Consultations are free. There is no fee unless you win. Dan Buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878. 1 -800 -669 -4878. Or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarmsen.

At gmail .com. That's chrisarmsen at gmail .com. My name is Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries. I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the Doctor of Ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor. It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in Midtown Manhattan.

You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc .nyc. They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel. If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit New Covenant Church, NYC.

Again, their information can be found at www .ncc .nyc. Have a great day.

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And don't forget to continue to pray for Mike Gadosz, the founder of Solid Ground Christian Books. He goes in for a very serious, dangerous, complicated, and delicate open-heart surgery. He is going in for a surgery prep on Thursday, the 23rd of August, and then he is actually having surgery, God willing, on the morning, first thing in the morning, on Friday, August 24th.

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And we will keep you updated on the progress of Mike Gadosz. Please continue to pray for him. He's very valuable to me personally and to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We are now back with our guest today, James Wright, author of A Christian Reads the Quran, Honest Reading and Honest Reflection.

And if you have a question, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. In studio with me is my webmaster and co-host for the day, Eric Nielsen. And Eric Nielsen is also an elder at the Community Evangelical Free Church of Champaign-Urbana, Illinois.

Not to belabor the issue of Pastor Andrew Brunson, but I just had a couple of more questions before we move on from that topic. Do you know, I mean, I don't know if it would be purely speculation, or if you have any evidence to come to this conclusion.

But do you know if, if his quote, quote, Christianizing those whom he shares friendships and neighborhoods with in, in Turkey, do you think that that was a motivation for the authorities in Turkey to trump up a charge against him?

What do you think? What would on earth would be the reason for this government to create such a conspiratorial charge against him? Well, during the break, while,.

While we were listening to the church I mentioned here in Revelation in chapter two, and it's just fascinating to me to read it again. So you have, you have Andrew Brunson, he's, he's in prison, and now he's back on home arrest.

The Resurrection Church is in Smyrna. And, and it, it really struck me to look again here. Three things, that's what's happened to him. He says, I won't put in prison. And, you know, a lot of people also don't blander against information.

It's a machine. You know, the fact is that there's, well, I, I, I just asked our.

Listeners to pray for Pastor Brunson and, and we will join you in giving updates when we have them. And, and we just, it is very, it is always very, it is always very heart-wrenching when you hear about a servant of Christ being falsely persecuted.

And we just pray that the Lord will bring himself praise, honor, and glory through this situation. Amen. And, well, I'm going to take our first listener question. Gordy in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania says,.

I want to commend you for your careful handling of this apologetic subject. You, along with Dr. James R. White and Dr. Tony Costa, are among a very small handful of prominent Christians willing to challenge the teachings of Islam with respect and yet without compromise.

Is there a way you typically would start a spiritual conversation with a Muslim, or is it each, or is each case different? And then he has one more question that I will.

Follow up with after you finish answering. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. I lean toward this a bit unique, but let me just say, you're not going to get anywhere engaging. How are you? What's your name?

I mean, these, but without those, I tried to look at Turkey. I met a Turkish man at a park and it turned out he lived, and then that piqued his interest in it. A friend of mine, he used to open. And the, the second question, the last question.

Gordy in Mechanicsburg.

Asks is also, how are those conversations different in the United States as compared to Asia?

Well, generally people living in this country are separated from their community identity people. Interesting thing. I heard once we say, I am, we are, therefore I am. They draw their identity. They may be separated for a tea or coffee.

Well, thank you Gordy. And since you live.

Very close to Cumberland Valley Bible book service on North Hanover street in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, swing by there Monday to pick up your free copy of A Christian Reads the Quran by our guest James Wright.

And we thank James for providing us with these free copies. And keep listening to Iron Trip and Zion radio. Keep sending us great questions and keep spreading the word there in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania about the show and beyond.

Uh, let's see here. We have Joey in Clifton, New Jersey, and I have to, uh, enlarge Joey's, um, email because the, the font is very small. So excuse me while I do this. And Joey in Clifton, New Jersey says, dear James, I have some Muslim friends whom I care for and who like many Muslims are not violent people.

Their reading of the Quran does not lead them to violence. And yet when I read the Quran objectively, it seems to me it contains some verses that teach the concept of subjugation of non-Muslims, even if necessary to the point of using violence.

I believe this is the reason why Islam has throughout the centuries always had some factions that rule by the sword and by the exorcism, the exercising of power. I would like to know if you agree with this assessment.

Yes, you're right. That's my simple answer.

Taqiyah, Violence, and the Diversity of Muslim Practice

Yeah, that, that, that is always the, um, the subject of dispute amongst, uh, not only Christians, but Muslims as we interact, not only face to face and debates and public moderated, officially organized debates, but also just, uh, just casual exchanges and so on.

And in the media, uh, because they're all different kinds of Muslims, they're all different kinds of points of view, even within Christendom. And you have the, the most frequently brought up charge, and I'd like you to respond to this, uh, by the, the more aggressive Christians or professing Christians who oppose Islam, they basically will say, we can never trust a Muslim because of Takiyah.

Uh, they are given permission to lie. So we will never know really if their pledge or claim to be nonviolent is true or not. So that at any moment, when we're talking to a Muslim, we could be face to face with somebody who has bombs strapped to them and we don't even realize it.

So how do you respond to that very common statement? And of course, I'm assuming at times that could be true,.

But if you could respond. Last show we did together, moralistic, and then, and fit together. How do those, how do they interact? How do the militaristic, in fact, I was with a guy.

Yeah. And my friend David Wood, uh, I think very appropriately phrases it that the violence that we see in the old covenant were not the last marching orders of Jesus Christ. Yeah. And,.

Um, you know, I could talk, we could talk all day about this. Let, let me just say my best expert between moralistic monotheism and that is the absence campaigns until I had a clearly legitimate human guest who caused the vacuum of the caliphate.

Kemal Mustafa out of Turk in 1922, I think it was another why the Turks. So when the caliphate was ended, the last caliph ended with now almost a hundred years signs all over Turkey. And when the caliphate is re Jihad, some local yokel stands up and says, Hey, let's go fight Jihad.

Well, it's not legitimate because he doesn't have the authority, but a King at the same time,.

The Difference Between Islam and Christianity

We have to go to our midway break right now. Uh, our midway break is longer than the other breaks because of the fact that grace life radio 90 .1 FM in Lake city, Florida, who airs this program twice a day and morning drive and evening drive in a rerun format.

They require this break so that they can air their own commercials and public service announcements. So please be patient as we take this break. Also, uh, use this time to not only write down information provided by our advertisers so that you can patronize them also write down questions for our guests, James, right on a Christian reads the Quran or on Islam in general.

And by the way, Joey in Clifton, New Jersey, make sure you send us your complete mailing address so that we can have a Christian reads the Quran shipped out to you by our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible book service.

Don't go away. Oh, by the way, our email address, if you want to join us on the air too, uh, it's Chris Arnson at gmail .com. Chris Arnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name, city and state and country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, don't go away. We'll be right back with more of James Wright and a Christian reads the Quran. One sure way all iron sharpens iron radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my advertisers.

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My name is Steve Lawson, founder and president of.

One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier Ministries. I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles. I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a reformed Baptist church that meets in midtown Manhattan. You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc .nyc. They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City I'd like to recommend that you visit New Covenant Church, NYC. Again, their information can be found at www .ncc .nyc.

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Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here. I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years. His name is Dan Buttafuoco. Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer, but not the type that typically comes to mind.

Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself. Recently he wrote a book titled Consider the Evidence for the Bible. Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword. Dan also has a master's degree in theology. Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states.

He represents many Christians in serious injury matters all over the country. Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer. He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy, and currently his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for $1 million or more, and in approximately 10 different states.

In Illinois, his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history. In New York, his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the Law Journal. If you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state, I recommend that you call Dan.

Consultations are free. There is no fee unless you win. Dan Buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878, 1 -800 -669 -4878, or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail .com. That's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Hi, Phil Johnson here. I'm Executive Director of John MacArthur's Media Ministry, Grace To You, and I'm also an occasional guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. So I'm delighted that from January 17th through the 19th, my friend Chris Arnson and I will be heading down to Atlanta for the G3 Conference, where I'll be joining James White, Steve Lawson, Vody Baucom, Mark Dever, Conrad Mbewe, Todd Friel, Josh Bice, and a host of other speakers to address the topic of biblical understanding of missions.