Did Jesus Lie? Responding To Morgue.

The Charge That Jesus Lied About the End Times

Non-rockabodas must stop. I don't want to rock the boat. I want to sink it. Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?

Delusional is okay in your worldview. I'm an animal. You don't chastise chickens for being delusional. You don't chastise pigs for being delusional. So you calling me delusional using your worldview is perfectly.

Okay, it doesn't really hurt.

Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men. The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men lauding them for their courage.

Go into all the world and make disciples not going to the world make buddies not to make brosives, right? Don't go in the world make homies, right?

Disciples, I got a bit of a jiggle Nick.

That's a joke.

When we have the real message of truth.

We cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not from the fig tree.

Learn its lesson as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near. So also when you see all these things, you know that he is near at the very gates. Truly I say to you this generation will not pass away until all these things Take place.

Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. What's up guys? Welcome back to another episode of apology a radio. I'm Jeff. They call me the ninja. That's Luke the bear right there.

What up, welcome back everybody to another delicious episode everybody. Thank you for joining us across them Internets everywhere. You are wherever you are. Thank you guys so much. Make sure you guys share this episode very excited about this particular episode because we are gonna be engaging with some commentary by an online Hyperion, right.

That's what he calls himself. He calls himself a Hyperion and he also has videos saying Proof that there is like 100 proof that there is no God stuff like that. Yeah, his name is morgue. Morgue official not like Morgan but morgue as in we're dead people.

Yes, like whitewashed tombs.

Yes.

Morgue.

Official. That wasn't that wasn't a comment about his face either. No, no, no.

No, so more morgue official is is who we're interacting with today. He has a He has a video has number of videos up, but he has a video up. Basically, so I'm gonna read this. This is this one verse proves Jesus lied The end times so this one verse proves Jesus lied the end times and we're also gonna interact with.

Another video he has says right and wrong do not exist. Yeah, everything you know about morality is a lie. Yeah, so He can't figure out which leg he wants to stand on. Yeah, it doesn't work. Yeah, everything you want to know about morality is a lie.

But right and wrong do not exist. Apparently that lie does matter. Yes, that one lies don't matter because there is no right and wrong. But everything you ever thought you knew about morality is in fact a lie and Jesus lied in Jesus lied.

Yeah, but don't worry about that because there is no right or wrong. Are we done? Let's go ahead and close the show out today. So what it was a very it was a very short show today. Yes Atheism is stupid.

Yeah, we just need those Hyperion is we just need to say that at the beginning that atheism is fully like Bible says the fool says in his heart there is no God as We often have said on the show. Being a fool in Scripture is not simply a jab at somebody.

It's a it's it's not just an indictment upon your intellectual prowess. It is also an indictment on your moral standing. So it's a moral indictment on top of being an intellectual indictment, of course.

And I think you know as we start the show like we're gonna talk about somebody who's complaining. Well, he first says there is you know proof that there is no God then he says that there is no right and wrong.

But then he produces a video saying that Jesus lied as if that mattered, right? According to his position. So welcome back everybody. Thank you guys for joining us in a live stream. We're so glad you guys have joined us today.

I want to encourage you guys to share this across social media. This would be an important one. And this one will put a highlight over this one and people put a hashtag eschatology matters. Pastor James has said for many many years theology matters and we believe that completely.

It's absolutely true. We got to get our hands around that truth, but I think this demonstrates that Eschatology it does matter now. It will enter into this discussion with a very keen awareness and sense of the fact that many are brothers and sisters right now.

Even watching live. We do not all share The the same exact details concerning Eschatological beliefs on the way there now, I want to make sure I very very carefully say this all Orthodox Christians all Christians share the same basic eschatology in terms of Jesus is coming to Judge the living and the dead there will be a resurrection of the just and the unjust there is going to be a final judgment.

All Christians agree on that. So I want to start with that the unified belief system of Christians throughout Christian history is that there will be a final day of judgment and that there will be a resurrection of physical resurrection of the just and the unjust and so we have shared the same as Eschatology in a sense a perspective of where history is going history is linear.

It's actually going somewhere towards a goal. Atheism doesn't have that history is just time and chance acting on matter. It's just chaos in motion. That's sort of a thing. There are no goal directed forces in the universe.

I'm quoting by the way, dr Will Provine the late dr. Will Provine a professor of biology at Cornell. No goal directed forces in the universe. There is no right there is no wrong. Hey, he's got a lot in common with morgue official on that point.

So interesting, but anyways when we talk about eschatology mattering, it's important to recognize That the popular perspective that clearly this guy had been raised in. He says he was raised in a Christian home same as me same as same as you said.

Yeah, and same eschatology that I entered into into the Christian Church as well he was raised in a Christian home and he was raised under the popular modern perspective of It sounds dispensational pre-millennial ism secret rapture seven years of tribulation all of that now.

It's important to recognize without being offensive to brothers and sisters that hold to that perspective. We both did before that that perspective is not historic in terms of historic Christianity. I don't believe that it's exegetical or biblical ultimately I think that it's a can be demonstrated that before the 19th century in the West.

It didn't exist in the mind of Christians that system itself. It's a it's a it's a theological or eschatological novum in church history but be that as it may this man was raised in that perspective and Thus he thinks that he can demonstrate that Jesus in fact lied about he calls it his Second coming and quote-unquote end times now this is something we've said so many times at apology a church and on apology a radio eschatology matters and when we Distort the words of Jesus miss apply them misinterpret them.

It will be used as fodder against the Christian Church by atheists and Hyperion's like like this gentleman and so. Although I think I saw a video of something about him being non-binary. He was wearing a dress or something.

I just I was the thumbnail. I could be totally wrong.

Maybe it was a spoof, but I think well that actually makes sense. Yeah, I I think just from Watching two videos and kind of spending a few minutes looking into him a little bit.

I.

This Hyperion ism. Basically, it's just it's modern-day Gnosticism. So it's basically like we're our Bodies are just a shell, you know, we exist Some somehow else they I think even says in the soul somehow or something but also basically it's it's I mean It's it's spot-on Gnosticism.

It's like the body's bad, but you know. There's no objective morality. There's no objective anything. He's going to objectively tell us. So yeah, everything is about reason and logic. That's Objective, but nothing's objective, you know, and So listening to two shows, I don't know this for a fact, but that makes sense what you said I'm guessing that well, I know he was raised in a Christian home.

He says that He he also has major complaints about against Christianity having issues with homosexuality. So I'm guessing that he was raised in a Christian home and decided that he was homosexual or whatever he wants to call himself and Now his whole goal in life is to take down Christianity because he doesn't like how they treat him.

So that's that's my guess is watching and if you go to his web page Which I'm not even gonna tell you what it is because it's not But like you go to his like at the Instagram and stuff. It looks like some kind of weird demonic sex cult and it's really creepy.

And so.

Yeah, the videos are interesting to say the least I've seen. I've seen a few of them over the last couple of years I believe and we were gonna do a response once before to I think his something on his existence of God.

But we just ended up having to do some other stuff. But this we thought was important. It came across My feed and I thought it'd be good to engage us because this would be helpful for the church. I have said many times before that Atheists do use a miss Interpretation of Matthew 24 the Great Tribulation passage the Olivet Discourse mark 13 Luke 21 Matthew 24 in the synoptic Gospels same Olivet Discourse people have used bad Christian interpretation of those passages.

To against the Christian Church like okay, if you're saying that's a second coming in the end of the cosmos. Then Jesus told a lie now I want to just go on record here at the start as we sort of get into this discussion.

Responding to an atheist that Jesus lied about the timing of his second coming. He is right about the fact that Jesus did Tell his disciples who were listening to him at that time that they would see these things.

And that their generation not some future generation. He uses the near demonstrative that generation that he was talking to this generation in front of him that they were gonna see his coming In judgment upon Jerusalem, which of course would include that destruction of the second Jewish temple.

And yes, it is absolutely true. I believe it can be demonstrated very clearly that Jesus was speaking about their generation and thank God he was because everything he said was Did take place and it came in fulfillment of all that the Old Testament said was going to happen when the Messiah came there was a promise of one Salvation and to judgment upon the covenant breakers there was an expectation that when Messiah came there was going to be salvation and purification and There was going to be judgment upon the covenant breakers and lo and behold Jesus comes in and that's precisely the story He's telling salvation and judgment upon the the covenant breakers and it's gonna happen before they all die.

So he does have this right? He's actually able to read his Bible better than I think many of us Christians have. Jesus was talking to them. Yeah, the problem is is that because he had an understanding.

That was given to him, of course by the Christian community. He was in that that passage is about a rapture and it's about the end of the world. Then he says look I spot the error. He's saying it to them.

He said that they weren't gonna die. He's talking about them. He's right about that, but he's wrong about what Jesus was talking about. He wasn't talking about the end of the world and the final judgment and the second coming and I think we can demonstrate that on Today's show so glad you guys joined us.

I hope that this is a benefit to you. This isn't just about trying to Convince you about an eschatological position in terms of post-millennialism or anything like that or on millennialism or anything like that this is really about actually exegeting the text of Scripture and Refuting those who contradict and it is about defending the glory of Jesus Christ.

He is in fact the Messiah. He is in fact God in human flesh. Jesus did not lie. God cannot lie and Jesus told no lies in Matthew 24 in an amazing Luke. We've talked about this many times. I use Matthew 24 mark 13 Luke 21 to demonstrate that Jesus is the Messiah exactly.

Yeah, because all those things happened and by the way, I'm not the first pastor to do that. You can look at Eusebius way Back and I'm gonna read some of Eusebius here to show you that Eusebius. Eusebius early church pastor one of the early Christians.

He we have his writings and he said that Jesus was referring there to what took place in their lifetime. And they actually followed what he said and therefore escaped the judgment on Jerusalem the Christians did so this isn't a theological Novum or eschatological novum that we're presenting.

Christians in history have used Matthew 24 as vindication of Jesus as Messiah. They said it happened. But now here we are and people are saying in dispensational pre-millennialism and other perspectives.

No that refers to a future a future situation and Atheists will say ah, ah, he said it was gonna happen in their lifetime. So how do we handle it? Very important that we do this in a way that glorifies God and that is also humble.

But refutes boldly those who contradict so ready to go Luke. Let's do it. Let's do it. So first thing. Let's do let's go ahead and Let's talk to let's talk to let's hear this man speak and open up the conversation for us.

Here we go. Carmen.

Matthew 24 and the End of the Age, Not the End of the World

According the mainstream religion lying is a sin. But I bet you didn't know that the Bible shows that Jesus is a liar and it wasn't just a little white lie either. It's about as big of a lie as you can possibly imagine.

Because it's about the end of the world in a situation that's actually similar to what we're experiencing right now. I'm going to show you the one verse that shows that Jesus is a liar and what it has to do with the end of.

The world. All right.

So let's uh, let's start with just that point there. Let's talk about The text itself now to do this correctly. We have to do this in a way that's faithful to text and let's talk about Matthew the gospel according to Matthew.

So Matthew, of course is the most Jewish centered gospel that we have in the Gospels the four Gospels Matthew Mark Luke and John. John is very unique in in how it is written and the kinds of things that it details John's purpose.

But Matthew Mark and Luke are called the synoptic Gospels synoptic means Seeing together you can line them up and see them together. And some give more details some give like more of a Jewish Jew, well a Gentile explanation.

So for example, and this is important about this conversation. Matthew 24 Great Tribulation all of a discourse. Jesus on the Mount of Olives talking about the destruction that's soon to take place in their lives.

Jesus says when you see the abomination Causes desolation. He says flee right and now that's very Jewish. They understand that's oh, that's from Daniel a Jewish audience and Matthew's recording. The abomination to cause desolation flee when you see it flee.

Well Luke's different. Luke gives you more of a Gentile understanding and interpretation. So when he gets to that part of Jesus all of a discourse, he says when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies flee.

So whereas Matthew gives you the understanding from a Jewish perspective Luke is saying when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies leave and then flee. And so let's talk about context. Matthew's context.

Matthew starts. Of course with the description of Jesus as King and royal right to the throne. The genealogy is there. Matthew chapter 3. I'm not gonna do all of this at Matthew 3. We should do a sermon series.

Yeah, we should do it. Maybe we should isn't that yeah, maybe take us 10 years to do one chapter. So Matthew chapter 3 John the Baptist is introduced by the way John the Baptist had to be introduced in Malachi chapter 3.

You see the promise that there's going to be a forerunner to the Lord whom you seek and he will come to his temple. So forerunner comes first this and then you messenger of the Covenant stuff all that is there.

So John the Baptist comes in and he says what to his generation repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand at the fingertip. Reach it's right there the rule by the way, don't get thrown by the language kingdom of heaven.

It is kingdom of God the rule of God. What were they expecting Messiah to come and to rule to bring the nations to God? So the kingdom of heaven don't think airy gassy fat babies on harps sort of fat babies on harps fat babies with harps on clouds think of think of.

The kingdom of God the kingdom of the Messiah the rule of God. John the Baptist says it's at hand and then he says to Jewish leaders that are there. He says who warned you to flee from the wrath. The Greek word is mellow about to come the rule that the the wrath about to come and he says the wintering fork is in his hand and the axe is already laid at The root of the trees so it's already the teeth of the axe are already there at that tree ready to take it down.

He's threatening them about what's about to happen to them. And by the way, if you read Malachi. That's kind of what you expect, right you expect judgment on the covenant breakers and salvation and John's telling that story.

Kingdom of God is coming and you're about to be judged to the covenant breakers. Then you move on into Matthew story in Matthew chapter 10. I'll listen. This is even better. I'll give the guy morgue official.

I'll give him one better in Matthew chapter 10 when Jesus is sending his disciples out. He actually tells them what I think is more devastating that most atheists miss. Let me give you some more to work with.

It's even better. I'll hope you wouldn't misinterpret it after this one. But here's a better one. Jesus says in Matthew chapter 10 when he's sending the disciples out. He says you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

What.

Jesus saying and they're not gonna finish this this completely finishes evangelistic mission before he comes. Before he returns. The question is what does that mean? Because Yahweh came a lot In the Old Testament in judgment upon nations upon his people.

And so we need to not hear Jesus saying that he's returning and think that that oh, that's the final judgment final resurrection. No, that's there's plenty of judgment comings and days of the Lord in the Old Testament record.

And so when Jesus is talking about coming in judgment upon the covenant breakers We don't need to see that as the final resurrection. It doesn't it shouldn't be seen that way. Especially in light of the fact that the Old Testament said that the coming of the Messiah would be salvation and Judgment upon the covenant breakers.

We're gonna do some of that and talk about even Luke's favorite Isaiah 65 and Once you actually, you know, let's go ahead and get into that conversation. Tell everyone how your mind started to change because this is actually I don't know.

Maybe we should just do it now because Isaiah 65 is Old Testament. It's expectation, right? Messiah is coming. What's gonna happen? How did that damage your perspective? Well, I.

You know, I was I grew up like I said in a Dispensational pre-mill church like I think most Christians in our nation. I didn't know there was another perspective. And then I'd tell I moved here actually I think so this almost 14 years ago now.

And then as well we started hanging out and then you were like I think you were going through Matthew 24 with the youth group or something and it was like.

What?

Happening right, right. So that's kind of started the process and then I read you haven't read Parasee by James Stuart Russell Which talking about the synoptics they laid all lays out all the passages With each other and through the different Gospels, which is super helpful but so that kind of was Changed my mind a lot.

And then when I got to Isaiah 65, that was the passage that That was the straw that broke the camel's back for me because basically that's where that's God's divorce With Israel essentially, you know, and I think the you start saying my people have a new name, you know.

So he starts referring to Israel as his ex-wife and his new wife has a new name it's it's a completely different entity and so that's where for me where I saw a complete cutting off of this dispensation and so I actually I told you but I when I First read through that and studied that I was actually angry for quite some time because I grew up in the church and don't ever Remember a pastor even like reading a verse from Isaiah 65.

So yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, what Luke is referring to is Isaiah 65. It is is just chocked full of messianic prophecy. You have Isaiah 53. You've got the suffering servant justifying the many as he bears their iniquities. You get the promise of this coming Messiah establishing justice on the earth and the coastlands waiting for his law.

Isaiah to the nation is streaming up to God's mountain all that salvation of the Messiah. But Isaiah 65 is massive. Isaiah 65 God actually challenges his covenant people and he says to them like that.

They're essentially says that they're wicked and he says that basically his so he's gonna do something new where his servants will eat and they're gonna Be hungry his servants will drink but they're gonna be thirsty and then he actually says that he is going to give his servants a new name and The the language is employed there of New Heavens and New Earth.

But that's the same kind of language God used in describing the establishment of the Old Covenant order. It's a very Jewish language very you must understand the Old Testament language to and to understand this.

But here's the point and bringing up Isaiah 65 when you see all of this taking place in a New Testament where judgment is gonna happen to the covenant breakers if you know your Old Testament and You're reading these passages you Expect the Messiah to come with salvation for God's people and then judgment on the covenant breakers and lo and behold.

That's what John the Baptist is saying. That's what Jesus is saying Matthew 16. We're gonna deal with of course because he brings it up. But my point is is this if you read the context of Matthew when Jesus sets his faith towards face towards Jerusalem.

It is all indictment upon the Jewish people. It is straight indictment. It is the the parable he gives about the vineyard owner. They killed the owner of the vineyard son. What's he gonna do. And they say he's gonna destroy those miserable wretches and he'll give out the vineyard to others.

We'll give him the fruit of it and Jesus says yeah. That's you and then he talks about you know The the king who has this wedding feast and he's you know. He's inviting but they won't come. The people who are supposed to come don't come so then he sends his armies to destroy Their city and then all of a sudden Jesus has the indictment on in Matthew 23.

Well on the Jewish leaders, it's it's the epic roast of the Jewish leadership in Jerusalem where he calls them whitewashed tombs. And all of that is there and then of course after he says behold your house is left to you desolate in Matthew 23.

He departs now the disciples have been witnessing Jesus coming into Jerusalem and it is this heaping of indictment upon the covenant the covenant breakers who are there who Rejecting him as Messiah and then Jesus promising them Destruction just start reading from Matthew 21 through 24 and ask yourself the question Who is Jesus primarily talking to in these passages?

Is it about the end of the world or it is? Is it about the end of the Old Testament Old Covenant economy and age? And by the way, that was where I wanted to go. So I pulled it up here so you can see it with your own eyes and not just take my word for it.

Carmen go ahead and show the screen here. So if you look here, I pulled up Matthew 24 in an interlinear so you can see the English words and all that now this morgue Gentleman, he actually says that this is about the end of the world.

That's what he says. Jesus lied about the end of the world. So that's what he thinks that Matthew 24 is about now how you can get that if you are reading Jesus entering into Jerusalem and all his indictments upon the covenant breakers is Beyond me, but the text actually is not about the end of the world the text you can see with your own eyes here and this is Matthew 24 as Jesus was sitting upon the Mount of Olives came to him and the disciples in a private saying tell us when these things will be and what is the sign of your coming and of the consummation of the What's that word?

Ionos that word there is age. The consummation of the age or the end of the age the word there's a word for world. Cosmos physical world and it's not this the word here is age now. Go ahead and bring it back here Carmen.

Why is that important?

Well.

I've already stressed that the Old Testament says there was gonna be salvation when the Messiah came and Upon the covenant breakers now Jesus comes into Jerusalem and he indicts the Jewish leadership for their lawlessness their sin their rejection of him.

He promises them they're gonna be destroyed and then what he says behold your house is left to you Desolate and then what happens is that this is crazy. This is one of my favorite things. He leaves the temple complex the whole area and he goes and departs to the Mount of Olives.

Now what's amazing about that is if you know your Bible when God actually was judging the Jews before and their temple. He actually departs from the temple and he goes towards the Mount of Olives and rests.

So before God destroys that first temple, he actually departs and he rests Mount of Olives same direction. Jesus says your house is left to you desolate leaves the same Direction and goes to the Mount of Olives to give the promise of the Great Tribulation and destruction in their day.

Coincidence, I think not Yahweh is being consistent with what he did before only now Yahweh is walking among us in the flesh. Now Jesus says that there's not going to be left one stone standing upon another now.

He just indicted the Jewish people. He just said their house is left in him desolate. Now the disciples are probably like wait, what? What like look look, they're showing the buildings and like what do you mean?

This is all gonna be destroyed and then he tells them What to look for now mind you they wanted to know based upon the destruction of that Old Covenant order. When was this gonna be he just said it was gonna happen and now they want to know what's the end of the age?

Because what are the Jews know history was divided into two sections. You've got the Old Covenant age and the age of the Messiah the Messianic Kingdom age the New Covenant age. So for Jewish beliefs about the future They knew that their history was in two sections Old Covenant order and the promise of the coming New Covenant and Messianic Kingdom.

And so when they hear that that Old Covenant is good order is gonna be wiped away desolate. They want to know about the end of the age so this text is not about the end of the physical cosmos and let's Let's go on here and listen to more of morgue official.

If you're new here my name is Morgan. We are dedicated to creating a new world of freedom and reason and if that's a world that you want then join our mission by subscribing right now and hit the bell so that you know.

When something new comes out before I can show you how Jesus clearly lied in the verse that shows it. You have to know a little bit about the end of the world or what mainstream religion calls the end times or the Great Tribulation so according to mainstream Christianity, this will be a Cataclysmic event when wars will break out everywhere.

The Antichrist will come to power and demons will roam the earth attacking people. Yeah. Really eventually Jesus will return and this is known as the Second Coming and set up the kingdom of heaven on earth and have the Devil chained up for a thousand years, then he'll be released again.

Anyway before all that, okay.

So just real fast. It does sound funny now that I'm on this side of things. Yeah.

So just it's important to note here and just be at least respectful to him. He is just reciting his tradition.

Yeah.

But what he needs to understand morgue official is that you're not talking about any kind of historic Christian position or how Christians have Handled this text in history. You're reciting a view of Eschatology that is from the 19th century.

It was popularized by a popular study Bible at the time and before that. It was well the best way I could say it's a theological or eschatological novum in history. It's new. And I'm sorry to say that you were impacted by that.

He's gonna talk about how he was impacted by that. Yeah, but just again to note he's talking about end times and Great Tribulation. I would say the Great Tribulation. It was promised upon the first century covenant breakers and it happened on time as planned.

Exactly as Jesus said that it would again. I go morgue official I go to Matthew 24 to show that Jesus is in fact the Messiah that it happened exactly as he said and on time so your your criticism isn't really with me or Luke or Christians historically that have had a Much different more consistent perspective.

Your criticism, of course is with a popular eschatology of our day, of course, but here's the point. You're wrong when you say it's about the end of the world. The text is about the end of the age.

You want anything else when I look. No, I think that's pretty simple.

The Rapture, Religious Trauma, and the Contradictions of Moral Relativism

Before the world is thrown into chaos everyone who believes in Jesus will disappear again. Yes, really they all just literally vanish instantly and they're transported to heaven. I'm not making this up this mass.

Disappearance occurs so that believers will be safe before the terrors of the end times happen. And this is known as the rapture. Now, by the way I want to mention I was born into a strict Christian household and I was a Christian for many years and the idea of the Rapture was absolutely terrifying.

Whenever my parents would leave to go shopping or whatever I'd run to the TV and turn on the news to make sure that the rapture didn't happen that I wasn't left behind. I can't emphasize enough how ideas like hell and the rapture are.

Traumatizing for children. No, I want to say I sympathize with.

I.

Sympathize with the guy and I think Isaac too. Is he shared stories before of like what? Yeah, I think he told me once like he had this major Traumatizing experience once where like his family left and I guess they didn't say where they were going and he was home alone.

And so he honestly thought that they were raptured and he was left behind. So he was like sitting out on his patio bawling as I eyes on his parents showed back up and like what's wrong?

He woke up in the attic all by himself. Yeah, I thought you were gone.

So I I understand and I'm sure it was traumatizing. So I don't want to I don't want to be flippant towards his experience. I'm sure he had some pretty traumatizing Experiences with that belief system, however.

It actually contradicts what he says elsewhere in terms of there being no right and no wrong no moral position. So here's my point. There's nothing wrong with any of this right according to the man's own position.

Yeah.

So.

He says, you know. There's this stupid belief and they believe these weird things and all the rest and like Jesus lied and I was traumatized. But this this is him elsewhere. So I'm going to show you a different video that wasn't that was done a while back.