April 27, 2023 Show with Roger Salter on “Unregeneracy, Common Grace & Special Grace”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father, James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer, George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister, George Norcross, and sports legend, Jim Thorpe.

It's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better. It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnson.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 27th day of April, 2023.

Anglicanism, Reformation Heritage, and the Problem of Purgatory

I'm thrilled to have back on the program a returning guest who is one of my favorite guests to interview, he's also a very dear friend. His name is Roger Salter, and he is rector of St. Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham, Alabama, which is a Reformed, confessional, Cranmerian, and historically Protestant congregation firmly committed to the inerrant holy scriptures and the 39 articles of religion.

And today, Roger is going to be discussing on Regeneracy, Common Grace, and Special Grace, the depravity and plight of human nature, the restraints of common grace, and the sovereignty and omnipotence of saving grace.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Roger Salter.

It's a privilege and a delight to be with you, Chris.

Praise God, and the feeling is very mutual. And one of the reasons, as you know, Roger, when I mentioned that you are a rector of St. Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham, Alabama, that I give a detailed description, a Reformed, confessional, Cranmerian, and historically Protestant congregation firmly committed to the inerrant holy scriptures and the 39 articles of religion.

I do that, number one, to let our listeners know that not all Anglicans are alike, not all Anglican churches are alike. And I don't want our listeners to think that if there is an Anglican church down the road from them, or one that calls itself Anglican, that they should be completely at ease to go visit that church and perhaps even join it because they know Iron Sharpens Iron Radio has had Anglicans, including Roger Salter, on the program.

But there is a wide spectrum of those that identify themselves as Anglican. And the longer I do this show and the more I interview Anglicans, the wider that spectrum seems to get. And it is actually very grievous to me that there are people out there who identify themselves as Anglican clergy who are more committed to the idea that being under the authority of a bishop is much more definitional of what true Anglicanism is than to believe, preach, and teach the actual soteriology of what the Anglicans of the English Reformation preached and taught.

These people will be making claims that you are not an Anglican because you're not under a bishop at this point since you're an independent congregation. And yet these people are teaching Romish ideas of salvation.

One individual in particular was mocking justification by faith alone on his Facebook page and even offering a theory of purgatory after the death of those who are truly saved that the death of Christ wasn't sufficient to completely purge them of sin.

So he believes that they have to go through another purging of some sort, even though we who are truly Christian believe that Christ's death on the cross was a mission that was completely accomplished, 100%, perfectly accomplished, and that we have no need for any adding of a purgatory or torment or suffering in order to be made right with God.

Am I making sense here, Roger?

Absolutely, Chris, and you've described the declension of Anglicanism, generally speaking, with absolute accuracy. It's a heartfelt pain to those of us who are heirs of the Reformation. Our heritage is wonderful, godly, spiritually true, and we see so much departure from the truth in Anglicanism, and Reformed Anglicans are a remnant.

Our congregation is a remnant and small congregation. There are things pending, which we present to God in prayer and waiting on him, but numerically, you wouldn't say we're thriving, but I think we have to put on our battle armor and fight through this dreadful departure from the truth of God in this denomination, which is so split, divided, and errant.

Yeah, and to go back to this insistence that someone be under the headship of a bishop, I wonder what these folks think about Athanasius, that name that is often accompanied by the Latin phrase contramundum, Athanasius against the world, because he was in defiance against the majority of church leadership at that time, and this was because he was standing firm on what the Bible taught and refusing to bow the knee to the authority of any bishop or council over what the scriptures taught.

Yes, yes. I don't know if I'm wise in saying this, Chris. It's my own opinion. I think I see a lot of value in the Episcopate, but I see credibility in every form of church government. All have their advantages and disadvantages, but from my perspective, the Episcopate in Anglicanism is the least of our priorities.

The apostolic succession is the gospel, not the men, not the touch on the forehead, and if you look at it, most of our troubles have started with bishops and are perpetuated by bishops, so they've got to be particularly godly men to be respected and to be followed.

Well, I'm gonna give our listeners our email address right away. If they have any questions for my guest, Roger Salter, it could be on the subject at hand, which is quite deep, as you heard me announce it, unregeneracy, common grace and special grace, the depravity and plight of human nature, the restraints of common grace, and the sovereignty and omnipotence of saving grace, and as we proceed diving in and delving into that topic, there will perhaps be something that my guest says that will trigger a question from you, but we will welcome any question on Anglicanism in general, on the scriptures, on salvation, and so on.

Send us an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's say you are troubled by what you are hearing and witnessing in the Anglican church to which you belong, and you don't want to, at this point in time, identify yourself. Perhaps you're even the rector or pastor or leader in that church, and you have very serious disagreements rising between you and others in that congregation or parish, or perhaps even with your bishop.

Well, whatever reason that you want to remain anonymous, we can completely understand that, but if it's just a general question, please give us your first name at least, your city and state, and country of residence.

The Depravity of Unregenerate Humanity

Well, let's start with the very first word in this theme. Unregeneracy, I'm assuming this is in reference to the state of being unregenerate, which means the new birth has not yet taken place in an individual or people.

These people, under the curse of unregeneracy, have not yet been given a new heart by the Lord, have not yet been filled with the Holy Spirit, therefore they are spiritually dead. Is that what you're referring to?

Absolutely, Chris. I'm thinking of it not only in terms of individuals, but of society. When I watch news and current affairs and commentary, I am suddenly reminding myself that the voices I'm listening to may have a certain worldly wisdom, but they have no reference to the things of God and ultimate truth.

And we're bound to hear so much error, propaganda, lies. And I feel that when we're listening to the media, it's very hard to discern what we can trust or not. So I'm thinking along both levels, the individual human being who needs to be recreated, resurrected to life in Christ, without that we are dead to God, except for his sovereign interventions in our life and thoughts, which of course takes place.

But also how wicked our culture is, our society, the whole world, but Western culture, which has had this Judeo-Christian background and heritage for centuries is abandoning it and wasting it and withering because of it.

And I go back, my mind goes back to two articles I read in the seventies, Chris, when I first went to England, Alec Matea and Martin Lloyd-Jones, both a couple of years between them, wrote articles suspecting that God had allowed us to go as far as he will allow in our wickedness and departure from him.

That was over 50 years ago. And in those decades, we've departed even more outrageously, dangerously and blasphemously. So that even public discourse is vulgar. You hear so many people swearing, even those who are supposed to be the elite of our society, their language is offensive as well as their thought and their ungodliness, their arrogance and trust in man.

So I feel this level of urgent dissatisfaction and disappointment with our media, our social discourse, our leadership in every area of human enterprise. We are desperately lost. And I think once again, someone ought to be rereading and re-preaching Jonathan Edwards, the wrath of God, the anger of God.

We need to be woken up and we need to fear the Lord in the same way that I would fear an 18-wheeler heading for me at 120 miles per hour. It's real fear. You know, it's not just respect and reverence.

We have got to fear God. He is immense in his power. He is a fire. And I believe that fear has dissipated and departed even from those who profess faith in Christ. We've sentimentalized the religion, you know, to it's a candy box kind of thing now.

And that really stirs me to alarm and seriousness about this topic.

Common Grace and Special Grace

Well, the next two phrases that you have used in your theme today, common grace and special grace. Common grace is a phrase that is highly objected to by a certain segment of the Reformed faith. In particular, I'm speaking of the Protestant Reformed Church of North America denomination.

They believe that every time we use the term grace, it should always be applied to something that is salvific. And the majority of Reformed Christians disagree with that distinction. But we'll have to wait for a future time to really get into the depth of that dispute, perhaps even have a debate on my program about it.

But common grace and special grace, common grace being the mercy demonstrated to the elect and the reprobate alike on this earth with the goodness that he bestows upon all of humanity in general, and the fact that even the worst of sinners often enjoy a wonderful family life in their home, enjoy health, wealth, and prosperity, and all kinds of things we could list.

But special grace, in contrast to that, is really speaking of specifically God's grace toward the elect and him bringing them to himself and saving them. Am I right in that distinction?

You are, you are, Chris. And I wondered if I could go back to depravity and work through common grace with you and the other topics, because given the depravity of man and our absolute helplessness in sin, which I don't feel even most of our so-called evangelicals understand, it's amazing how much we rely on self-effort and self-righteousness.

But given the depravity of man and the misery it causes to us, the fact that there is anything decent or beneficial or enjoyable of life means that common grace mitigates the hell that we've created for ourselves.

I mean, our depravity has placed us in the neighborhood of hell. It's only God's delay and patience that prevents us all from sliding into that terrible destiny. But, Chris, I actually made some notes this morning.

Can I resort to them?

Oh, of course.

And please interrupt me anytime you feel it's beneficial or off, you know, off-piste, as they say, with their skiing terminology. But I was thinking that, you know, even as believers, we cannot and do not grasp the reality of our plight.

Well, you know, our approach to God, our return to him, our receiving of salvation and living in holiness is a rather low priority, especially when you compare us with the great saints of the past. But I think that we need to recognize that everyone outside of Christ is in the thrall and captivity of satanic evil and the bondage of his great lie about reality in all its detail.

And so we must expect deceit, dishonesty, hatefulness, and the rule of deception in the wicked heart and lying language of our unrenovated race, because our sorry plight is mitigated by the interventions and involvement of God in our murky swamp.

And we reside, as I said, in the neighborhood of hell itself. Only the kindness and goodness of God alleviates our misery and pending doom. I don't think we as a church anymore, and it's not for me to speak too much in generalisms, but I don't think we hold the truth in anywhere near its fullness and the alarm of our standing before God.

And so I'm going to say that every glibly Bible-quoting evangelical scarcely knows the gravity of the verdict of God's pure and perfect revelation of ultimate matters for our consideration in his spoken and recorded word.

I just don't think we've got it, Chris. And we're dithering about on the surface. And all this business about organizing denominations and affiliations is a distraction. What we need really is the Lord in our hearts and minds.

First of all, that creates true Christian unity, not ecumenism. And we've really got to get... No, I'm talking about an Anglican. I think this dependence upon the episcopate is idolatry and the setting of man on the throne and not the Lord.

I know good bishops, but the majority of them are a waste of space and leading people, blind people, and leading blind people into the ditch behind them. It's tragic that Anglicanism messes about with ceremonial and things of no fundamental importance to the wellbeing of the soul.

All process, government, developing new movements and saying that there's a resurgence of the past. That hasn't happened in Anglicanism. We've not got anything as a distinct group or party that really advocates what I call the doctrines of grace from scripture, when we call historically Augustinian, Augustinianism and the reformed heritage.

It's a tragedy.

Total Depravity and Human Inability

Well, I am assuming that you've stopped referring to your notes at this point, since the pause here. So let us move on to the fact that we who are reformed, when we are referring to the depravity and plight of human nature, we are referring to something that has been known historically by the theological term, total depravity.

And perhaps you could expand on this a bit more, but am I correct in saying that when we say that man at the moment of his conception in the womb is totally depraved, that does not mean that he will behave as wickedly as he possibly can, but that every aspect of his life is enslaved to sin.

So even when he does things that for all outward appearances look as though they are wonderful deeds, there really is a selfish or sinful motivation behind them. So everything that a person who is totally depraved, that is every human being before their regeneration, everything they do is tainted with sin and nothing that they can do will please God.

So therefore the total, again, is not in reference to them being as wicked as they could be, because obviously that's not true, but that the total embodiment of their being is enslaved to sin. Isn't that really what the Calvin and the other reformers, when they were referring to that teaching, isn't that what they were referring to?

Yes, I think so, Chris. I mean, you hit upon it when you indicated that every faculty is corrupted and everything we do is out of self-interest, either for our gratification or our domination of something or our dictating terms to other people as to how they can please us.

We are at the center of our action and it's not God's glory that we seek in humility and gratitude. So this is the shocker. When you really analyze it, if God gives you illumination of conscience, everything you do is in self-interest unless God has renovated your heart and given you an outward perspective of wishing to glorify him and to be a blessing to others.

So yes, total depravity. No one's as bad as they are potentially likely to be. God restrains us. That to me is what common grace is all about. But when you look into the human heart, you see how much Jeremiah in 17 .9 says that the heart is deceitful beyond all things who can know it.

When people say, oh, trust your heart, that's the worst thing you can trust. We don't know it. We don't know how it functions. We don't understand it. And it gets us into trouble all the time by various devious means and causing us to deceive ourselves about practically everything we envisage.

So, you know, our hearts, what I really notice in that statement of Jeremiah is that humanly speaking, without the divine intervention is beyond cure. We're not just handicapped or sick. We are dead and done for before God and our future and our whole motivation and activity is in vain.

It's futile. The scriptures are so honest about our condition, Chris. I mean, Romans 8 .5 -8, everyone happily goes to the end of Romans. You know, nothing should separate us from the love of God, but before grace, we are separated from that love.

And I won't look up the passage, but it talks about this native and permanent antipathy and hostility towards God. The flesh cannot please God and it doesn't want to. It's unable and it has no desire.

And we rage against God in our hearts. And I don't think most Christians have discovered that. They see themselves as ailing, but not as desperate and lost and incurable until the grace of God intervenes.

Yes, and we are gonna pick up right where you left off there after we return from our first commercial break. Once again, if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question for Roger Salter, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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We are discussing unregeneracy, common grace and special grace, the depravity and plight of human nature, the restraints of common grace and the sovereignty and omnipotence of saving grace. We do have a listener who is interestingly asking something that, about something that Roger and I had discussed maybe a week ago or so over the phone, but this listener whose name is Christopher in Western Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, asks, I was wondering what your guest thinks of the Anglican in the Free Church of England known as Calvin Robinson.

He seems to be right on the money when it comes to the culture wars, and he is completely on the side of biblical morality and ethics, but when it comes to his soteriology and other beliefs, when I investigated his website, he seems much too Romish for my blood.

I was wondering what your thoughts are, Roger.

I would hesitate about commenting on Calvin as an individual. He is very useful on the cultural and sociological issues from a Christian perspective and very courageous. I'm trying to be polite. I'm very hesitant about his soteriological approach, and I, well, I think the person who's asked the question has really preempted my answer.

Yeah, Calvin, very articulate man. I used to love to see him appear on Tucker Carlson's program when Tucker actually had a program on Fox News before the insane act of being fired by those folks at Fox, but when I even explored his website because I was interested in possibly inviting him on the program, which I still may do, perhaps even involving a debate if he would be willing to be involved in one, but I found his website to reveal that he is Anglo-Catholic on steroids.

I mean, very, very Romish, which actually makes me wonder why he is not Roman Catholic. He's so extremely to that end of the spectrum, but that may seem like it is out of the realm of our topic, but it's actually not because some of the things that you were mentioning, the unregeneracy of our current culture, not only our own nation, but the globe, the insanity that's going on, there is definitely a tendency on a part of many people who are truly Christian and truly sound theologically to be too wrapped up in alliances with those that are outside of the true Christian faith, and I would have to say anyone who has a false gospel is outside of the true Christian faith, and we have to know where to draw the line in these associations that we have.

I'm not saying that we should never have any associations at all with people with whom we agree on social and moral issues, and every time somebody votes, if they're not voting for a Bible-believing born-again Christian, they are, in some realm, doing that.

They're cooperating, in some sense, with an unbeliever for the cause of good on this earth, but this can be a difficult task, can it not, Roger, when we try to not completely isolate ourselves from very helpful humans on the front lines of the culture wars, but at the same time, not falling prey to adopting them as brothers and sisters in Christ, as many of our true brothers and sisters in Christ do on occasion, that they welcome or identify people as brothers and sisters in Christ because of their shared abhorrence for immorality, and this is dangerous, isn't it?

It really is, Chris, and I would think that the influence of people like Calvin is some evidence of common grace, working at a human and societal level for the improvement of our earthly affairs and lives.

There are a number of former evangelicals who have gone to Rome and they talk about the love of Jesus and wanting to exalt him, but they never expound the gospel of the cross, which, of course, is at the very heart of the divine message of salvation, and I think that there are denominations now that started out from the Reformed heritage, like the Free Church of England and like the Reformed Episcopal Church here, that have now gone over to Rome and are actually disloyal to the gospel and undermining the witness of scripture and replacing it with ceremony and sacramentalism, and so there is this great danger that these people who are beneficial in some sense or other are also very dangerous to the heart of the gospel, and it's almost like a self-improvement exercise that if we follow, like the other fellow from Canada, whose name escapes me for a moment, we follow their 10 points and we'll be okay.

It is only scripture that prescribes the way of salvation, and it has to be adhered to as closely as God enables us, so I'm very disappointed in these fellows who have reneged on our Protestant and Reformational heritage, extol Catholicism, in which there is some spiritual and devotional wisdom.

Even the Reformers recognized that and worked for a reunion at various times, but we always come up against the problem of justification by faith alone, which a lot of Catholics did accept, especially in Italy, but also the sovereignty of grace, and so one has very mixed feelings about this.

Declension in Reformed Churches and the Need for Reformation

We have another listener, Anthony in Hoshton, Georgia. Pastor Salter, we are enjoying today's program and what you have been presenting on these topics. If I could ask you for your experienced perspective on what has caused a fall-off, a declension, in some of the historic Reformed works, such as the Anglican Church.

We are glad, we are glad, obviously, that you are standing for truth in your assembly, but would you be so kind to offer your thoughts on why there seems to be a serious decline among many of the Reformed works?

Are the young people not stepping up? Has evangelicalism taken a backseat to some of the new technological age and innovations that we rely on instead of doing the first works? If you have had any recurring thoughts on this, perhaps they will help us hold the line and maybe advance the gospel for the kingdom.