April 27, 2023 Show with Roger Salter on “Unregeneracy, Common Grace & Special Grace”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father, James Wilson,

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron, so one man

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have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener,

with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnson.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the

planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 27th day

of April, 2023.

I'm thrilled to have back on the program a returning guest who is one of my favorite guests to

interview, he's also a very dear friend.

His name is Roger Salter, and he is rector of St. Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham, Alabama,

which is a Reformed, confessional, Cranmerian, and historically Protestant congregation

firmly committed to the inerrant holy scriptures and the 39 articles of religion.

And today, Roger is going to be discussing on Regeneracy, Common Grace, and Special Grace,

the depravity and plight of human nature, the restraints of common grace, and the

sovereignty and omnipotence of saving grace.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Roger Salter.

It's a privilege and a delight to be with you, Chris.

Praise God, and the feeling is very mutual.

And one of the reasons, as you know, Roger, when I mentioned that

you are a rector of St. Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham, Alabama, that I give a detailed description,

a Reformed, confessional, Cranmerian, and historically Protestant congregation firmly committed to the

inerrant holy scriptures and the 39 articles of religion.

I do that, number one, to let our listeners know that

not all Anglicans are alike, not all Anglican churches are alike.

And I don't want our listeners to think that if there is an Anglican church down the road

from them, or one that calls itself Anglican, that they should be completely at

ease to go visit that church and perhaps even join it because they know Iron Sharpens Iron Radio

has had Anglicans, including Roger Salter, on the program.

But there is a wide spectrum of those that identify themselves as Anglican.

And the longer I do this show and the more I interview Anglicans, the wider that

spectrum seems to get.

And it is actually very grievous to me that there are people out there who identify

themselves as Anglican clergy who are more

committed to the idea that being under the authority of a bishop

is much more definitional of what true Anglicanism is

than to believe, preach, and teach the actual soteriology of

what the Anglicans of the English Reformation preached and taught.

These people will be making claims that you are not an Anglican

because you're not under a bishop at this point since you're an independent congregation.

And yet these people are teaching Romish ideas of salvation.

One individual in particular was mocking justification by faith alone on

his Facebook page and even offering a theory

of purgatory after the death

of those who are truly saved that the death of Christ

wasn't sufficient to completely purge them of sin.

So he believes that they have to go through another purging of some sort, even though

we who are truly Christian believe that Christ's death on the cross

was a mission that was completely accomplished, 100%,

perfectly accomplished, and that we have no need for any adding of

a purgatory or torment or suffering in order to be made right with God.

Am I making sense here, Roger?

Absolutely, Chris, and you've described the declension of Anglicanism, generally

speaking, with absolute accuracy.

It's a heartfelt pain to those of us who are heirs of the Reformation.

Our heritage is wonderful, godly, spiritually true, and we see

so much departure from the truth in Anglicanism, and Reformed Anglicans

are a remnant.

Our congregation is a remnant and small congregation.

There are things pending, which we present to God in prayer and waiting on him,

but numerically, you wouldn't say we're thriving, but I think we have to put

on our battle armor and fight through this dreadful departure from the truth of God

in this denomination, which is so split, divided, and errant.

Yeah, and to go back to this insistence that someone be under the headship of

a bishop, I wonder what these folks think about Athanasius,

that name that is often accompanied by the Latin phrase contramundum,

Athanasius against the world, because he was in defiance against

the majority of church leadership at that time, and this was

because he was standing firm on what the Bible taught and refusing to

bow the knee to the authority of any bishop or council over what the scriptures

taught.

Yes, yes.

I don't know if I'm wise in saying this, Chris.

It's my own opinion.

I think I see a lot of value in the Episcopate, but I see credibility in every

form of church government.

All have their advantages and disadvantages, but from my perspective, the Episcopate

in Anglicanism is the least of our priorities.

The apostolic succession is the gospel, not the men, not the touch on the forehead,

and if you look at it, most of our troubles have started with bishops and are

perpetuated by bishops, so they've got to be particularly godly men to be respected

and to be followed.

Well, I'm gonna give our listeners our email address right away.

If they have any questions for my guest, Roger Salter, it could be

on the subject at hand, which is quite deep, as you heard me announce it, unregeneracy, common grace

and special grace, the depravity and plight of human nature, the restraints of common grace, and the

sovereignty and omnipotence of saving grace, and as we proceed diving in and delving into

that topic, there will perhaps be something that my guest says

that will trigger a question from you, but we will welcome any question on

Anglicanism in general, on the scriptures, on salvation, and so on.

Send us an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, give us your first name at least, your city and

state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's say you are troubled by what you are hearing and witnessing

in the Anglican church to which you belong, and you don't want

to, at this point in time, identify yourself.

Perhaps you're even the rector or pastor or leader in that church, and you have very

serious disagreements rising between you and others

in that congregation or parish, or perhaps even with your bishop.

Well, whatever reason that you want to remain anonymous, we can completely understand that,

but if it's just a general question, please give us your first name at least, your city and state, and country of residence.

Well, let's start with the very first word in this theme.

Unregeneracy, I'm assuming this is in reference to the state of being

unregenerate, which means the new birth has not yet taken place

in an individual or people.

These people, under the curse of unregeneracy,

have not yet been given a new heart by the Lord, have not yet been filled with the Holy Spirit, therefore

they are spiritually dead.

Is that what you're referring to?

Absolutely, Chris.

I'm thinking of it not only in terms of individuals, but of

society.

When I watch news and current affairs and commentary, I am

suddenly reminding myself that the voices I'm listening to may have a certain worldly wisdom,

but they have no reference to the things of God and ultimate truth.

And we're bound to hear so much error, propaganda, lies.

And I feel that when we're listening to the media, it's very hard to discern what we can

trust or not.

So I'm thinking along both levels, the individual human being who needs to be

recreated, resurrected to life in Christ, without that we are dead to God,

except for his sovereign interventions in our life and thoughts, which of course takes place.

But also how wicked our culture is, our society, the whole world,

but Western culture, which has had this Judeo -Christian background and heritage for

centuries is abandoning it and wasting it and

withering because of it.

And I go back, my mind goes back to two articles I read in the seventies, Chris,

when I first went to England, Alec Matea and Martin Lloyd -Jones, both a

couple of years between them, wrote articles suspecting that God had allowed us

to go as far as he will allow in our wickedness and departure from him.

That was over 50 years ago.

And in those decades, we've departed even more outrageously,

dangerously and blasphemously.

So that even public discourse is vulgar.

You hear so many people swearing, even those who are supposed to be the elite of our society,

their language is offensive as well as their thought and their ungodliness, their arrogance and

trust in man.

So I feel this level of urgent dissatisfaction and disappointment

with our media, our social discourse, our leadership in every area of human

enterprise.

We are desperately lost.

And I think once again, someone ought to be rereading and re -preaching

Jonathan Edwards, the wrath of God, the anger of God.

We need to be woken up and we need to fear the Lord in the same way that I would fear an

18 -wheeler heading for me at 120 miles per hour.

It's real fear.

You know, it's not just respect and reverence.

We have got to fear God.

He is immense in his power.

He is a fire.

And I believe that fear has dissipated and departed even from those who

profess faith in Christ.

We've sentimentalized the religion, you know, to it's a candy box kind of thing now.

And that really stirs me to alarm and

seriousness about this topic.

Well, the next two phrases that you have used in your

theme today, common grace and special grace.

Common grace is a phrase that is highly

objected to by a certain segment of the Reformed faith.

In particular, I'm speaking of the Protestant Reformed Church of North America

denomination.

They believe that every time we use the term grace, it should always be applied to

something that is salvific.

And the majority of Reformed Christians disagree with that distinction.

But we'll have to wait for a future time to really get into the depth

of that dispute, perhaps even have a debate on my program about it.

But common grace and special grace, common grace being

the mercy demonstrated to the

elect and the reprobate alike on this earth with the goodness that

he bestows upon all of humanity in general,

and the fact that even the worst of sinners often

enjoy a wonderful family life in their home, enjoy

health, wealth, and prosperity, and all kinds of things we could list.

But special grace, in contrast to that, is really speaking of specifically

God's grace toward the elect and him bringing them to himself and saving them.

Am I right in that distinction?

You are, you are, Chris.

And I wondered if I could go back to depravity and work through common grace with

you and the other topics, because given the depravity of man

and our absolute helplessness in sin, which I don't feel even most of our so

-called evangelicals understand, it's amazing how much we rely

on self -effort and self -righteousness.

But given the depravity of man and the misery it causes to us, the fact that

there is anything decent or beneficial or enjoyable of life means that

common grace mitigates the hell that we've created for ourselves.

I mean, our depravity has placed us in the neighborhood of hell.

It's only God's delay and patience that prevents us all from sliding into that

terrible destiny.

But, Chris, I actually made some notes this morning.

Can I resort to them?

Oh, of course.

And please interrupt me anytime you feel it's beneficial or off, you know, off

-piste, as they say, with their skiing terminology.

But I was thinking that, you know, even as believers, we cannot and do

not grasp the reality of our plight.

Well, you know, our approach to God, our return to him, our receiving of salvation and

living in holiness is a rather low priority, especially when you

compare us with the great saints of the past.

But I think that we need to recognize that everyone outside of Christ is in

the thrall and captivity of satanic evil and the bondage of his

great lie about reality in all its detail.

And so we must expect deceit, dishonesty, hatefulness, and the rule of deception

in the wicked heart and lying language of our unrenovated race,

because our sorry plight is mitigated by the interventions and involvement of God

in our murky swamp.

And we reside, as I said, in the neighborhood of hell itself.

Only the kindness and goodness of God alleviates our misery and pending

doom.

I don't think we as a church anymore, and it's not for me to speak too much in

generalisms, but I don't think we hold the truth in anywhere near its fullness

and the alarm of our standing before God.

And so I'm going to say that every glibly Bible -quoting

evangelical scarcely knows the gravity of the verdict of God's pure and

perfect revelation of ultimate matters for our consideration in his

spoken and recorded word.

I just don't think we've got it, Chris.

And we're dithering about on the surface.

And all this business about organizing denominations and affiliations is a distraction.

What we need really is the Lord in our hearts and minds.

First of all, that creates true Christian unity, not ecumenism.

And we've really got to get...

No, I'm talking about an Anglican.

I think this dependence upon the episcopate is idolatry and the setting of man on

the throne and not the Lord.

I know good bishops, but the majority of them are a waste of space and leading

people, blind people, and leading blind people into the ditch behind them.

It's tragic that Anglicanism messes about with ceremonial and things of

no fundamental importance to the wellbeing of the soul.

All process, government, developing new movements and saying that

there's a resurgence of the past.

That hasn't happened in Anglicanism.

We've not got anything as a distinct group or party that really advocates what I

call the doctrines of grace from scripture, when we call historically Augustinian,

Augustinianism and the reformed heritage.

It's a tragedy.

Well, I am assuming that you've stopped referring to your

notes at this point, since the pause here.

So let us move on to the fact

that we who are reformed, when we are referring to the depravity and

plight of human nature, we are referring to something

that has been known historically by the theological term, total depravity.

And perhaps you could expand on this a bit more, but am I correct in saying that

when we say that man at the moment of his conception in the

womb is totally depraved, that does not mean that he

will behave as wickedly as he possibly can,

but that every aspect of his life is enslaved to sin.

So even when he does things that for all outward appearances

look as though they are wonderful deeds, there really is a selfish or

sinful motivation behind them.

So everything that a person who is totally depraved, that is every human being before

their regeneration, everything they do is tainted with

sin and nothing that they can do will please God.

So therefore the total, again, is not in reference to them being as wicked as they could

be, because obviously that's not true, but that the total embodiment of

their being is enslaved to sin.

Isn't that really what the Calvin and the other reformers, when they were

referring to that teaching, isn't that what they were referring to?

Yes, I think so, Chris.

I mean, you hit upon it when you indicated that every faculty is corrupted

and everything we do is out of self -interest, either for our gratification

or our domination of something or our dictating terms to other people as to how they can please

us.

We are at the center of our action and it's not God's glory that we seek in humility and

gratitude.

So this is the shocker.

When you really analyze it, if God gives you illumination of conscience, everything you do

is in self -interest unless God has renovated your heart and given you an outward

perspective of wishing to glorify him and to be a blessing to others.

So yes, total depravity.

No one's as bad as they are potentially likely to be.

God restrains us.

That to me is what common grace is all about.

But when you look into the human heart, you see how much

Jeremiah in 17 .9 says that the heart is deceitful beyond all

things who can know it.

When people say, oh, trust your heart, that's the worst thing you can trust.

We don't know it.

We don't know how it functions.

We don't understand it.

And it gets us into trouble all the time by various devious means and causing us to

deceive ourselves about practically everything we envisage.

So, you know, our hearts, what I really notice in that statement of Jeremiah

is that humanly speaking, without the divine intervention is beyond

cure.

We're not just handicapped or sick.

We are dead and done for before God and our future and our

whole motivation and activity is in vain.

It's futile.

The scriptures are so honest about our condition, Chris.

I mean, Romans 8 .5 -8, everyone happily goes to the end of Romans.

You know, nothing should separate us from the love of God, but before grace, we are separated from that

love.

And I won't look up the passage, but it talks about this native and permanent antipathy

and hostility towards God.

The flesh cannot please God and it doesn't want to.

It's unable and it has no desire.

And we rage against God in our hearts.

And I don't think most Christians have discovered that.

They see themselves as ailing, but not as desperate and lost and incurable

until the grace of God intervenes.

Yes, and we are gonna pick up right where you left off there after we return from our first commercial

break.

Once again, if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question for Roger Salter, our email address is

chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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We're now back with my guest today, Roger Salter, Director of St.

Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham, Alabama.

We are discussing unregeneracy, common grace and special grace, the depravity and plight of human nature,

the restraints of common grace and the sovereignty and omnipotence of saving grace.

We do have a listener who is interestingly asking something that,

about something that Roger and I had discussed maybe a week ago or so over the phone,

but this listener whose name is Christopher in Western

Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, asks, I was wondering what your

guest thinks of the Anglican in the Free Church of England known as Calvin

Robinson.

He seems to be right on the money when it comes to the culture wars, and he is

completely on the side of biblical morality and ethics, but when it comes to

his soteriology and other beliefs, when I investigated his website, he seems much too

Romish for my blood.

I was wondering what your thoughts are, Roger.

I would hesitate about commenting on Calvin as an individual.

He is very useful on the cultural and sociological issues

from a Christian perspective and very courageous.

I'm trying to be polite.

I'm very hesitant about his soteriological approach,

and I, well, I think the person who's asked the question has really

preempted my answer.

Yeah, Calvin, very articulate man.

I used to love to see him appear on Tucker Carlson's program when Tucker actually had a program on Fox News

before the insane act of being fired by those folks at Fox, but

when I even explored his website because I was interested in possibly inviting him on

the program, which I still may do, perhaps even involving a debate if he would

be willing to be involved in one, but I found his website to

reveal that he is Anglo -Catholic on steroids.

I mean, very, very Romish, which actually makes me

wonder why he is not Roman Catholic.

He's so extremely to that end of the spectrum, but that may

seem like it is out of the realm of our topic, but it's actually not

because some of the things that you were mentioning,

the unregeneracy of our current culture, not only our own nation,

but the globe, the insanity that's going on, there is definitely

a tendency on a part of many people who are truly Christian and truly sound

theologically to be too wrapped up in alliances

with those that are outside of the true Christian faith, and I would have to say anyone who has a false gospel

is outside of the true Christian faith, and we have to know

where to draw the line in these associations that we have.

I'm not saying that we should never have any associations at all with people with whom we agree

on social and moral issues,

and every time somebody votes, if they're not voting for a Bible -believing born -again

Christian, they are, in some realm, doing that.

They're cooperating, in some sense, with an unbeliever for the

cause of good on this earth, but this can be a difficult task, can it not,

Roger, when we try to not completely isolate

ourselves from very helpful humans on the front lines of the

culture wars, but at the same time, not falling prey to adopting them as brothers and sisters in

Christ, as many of our true brothers and sisters in Christ do on occasion,

that they welcome or identify people as brothers and sisters in Christ

because of their shared abhorrence for immorality, and this is dangerous, isn't it?

It really is, Chris, and I would think that the influence of people like Calvin

is some evidence of common grace, working at a human and societal level

for the improvement of our earthly affairs and lives.

There are a number of former evangelicals who

have gone to Rome and they talk about the love of Jesus and wanting to

exalt him, but they never expound the gospel of the cross, which, of course, is at the

very heart of the divine message of salvation, and I think that there are

denominations now that started out from the Reformed heritage, like the Free Church of

England and like the Reformed Episcopal Church here, that have now

gone over to Rome and are actually disloyal to the gospel and

undermining the witness of scripture and replacing it with ceremony and

sacramentalism, and so there is this great danger that

these people who are beneficial in some sense or other are also very dangerous

to the heart of the gospel, and it's almost like a self -improvement exercise

that if we follow, like the other fellow from Canada, whose name escapes me for a moment, we follow their

10 points and we'll be okay.

It is only scripture that prescribes the way of salvation, and

it has to be adhered to as closely as God enables us, so I'm very

disappointed in these fellows who have reneged on our Protestant and

Reformational heritage, extol Catholicism, in which there is some

spiritual and devotional wisdom.

Even the Reformers recognized that and worked for a reunion at various times, but

we always come up against the problem of justification by faith alone,

which a lot of Catholics did accept, especially in Italy, but also the

sovereignty of grace, and so one has very mixed feelings about this.

We have another listener, Anthony in Hoshton, Georgia.

Pastor Salter, we are enjoying today's program and what you have been presenting on these topics.

If I could ask you for your experienced perspective on what has caused a

fall -off, a declension, in some of the historic Reformed works,

such as the Anglican Church.

We are glad, we are glad, obviously, that you are standing for truth in your

assembly, but would you be so kind to offer your thoughts on why there seems to be a serious decline

among many of the Reformed works?

Are the young people not stepping up?

Has evangelicalism taken a backseat to some of the new technological age and innovations

that we rely on instead of doing the first works?

If you have had any recurring thoughts on this, perhaps they will help

us hold the line and maybe advance the gospel for the kingdom.

And that's Anthony in Hoshton, Georgia.

I sincerely mean this, Chris.

I'm not a wise man.

I simply observe and sometimes only partially.

I mean, the cause of this is our departure

from the pure and holy word of God.

That is a tendency that is in every human heart, even those most resolved to be

loyal to scripture.

So the declension comes from our failure to listen to God in any profound

way and then to badly edit his word and eventually to deny it, to

contradict it.

And that's happening at such a rate in so many ways in the contemporary church.

I think our hearts are not really devoted to God in that

totality that is desirable for citizens of the kingdom.

We reserve certain things intellectually, emotionally, in terms of

our affections.

We draw the line somewhere and we refuse to yield ourselves

totally to the Lord.

Impossible for all of us, but it should be progressive as we walk with God and rely

on him.

I think it shows that our hearts are deceitful, that we invent things

alongside the word of God.

We're very bad editors of the word of God.

We'll quote something from the Bible and then invent something that we think is compatible with it

in denial of the overall meaning of scripture.

You know, the analogy of scripture, that things have got to fit into the totality of the

divine message.

So I think there's pride.

I think there's dissatisfaction, the tendency to spiritual adultery, that

we are just not dependable.

And we wander, which is why we are called sheep.

But I would like to be more comprehensive.

But at the moment, Chris, I don't think I can summarize it.

I'm appalled at it.

God has given us in the Reformation and subsequent eras, a good heritage

to cling to and we toss it away.

As somebody said, the church needs reformation.

Is it every two generations?

It's an assumption or a calculation, but every 30 to 40 years, the Reformation

needs to be repeated and restored.

Yeah, in fact, I just had a Iron Sharpens Iron radio pastor's luncheon and a

subsequent three -day Bible conference.

The first was held in Lloydsville, Pennsylvania, the second in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

And my speakers, Dr. William Webster, who is a Banner of Truth author and also pastor

of Grace Bible Church of Battleground, Washington.

And Reverend David T. King, who is a pastor at Christ Church in Katy, Texas.

They were both affirming in that conference, especially the need for another

Reformation within the Evangelical Church.

And that the Evangelical Church has abandoned and rejected what the

men who are allegedly their founding fathers taught from the scriptures.

And so it is, I echo that very loudly.

And I think that Dr. Webster and Reverend King did an outstanding job.

And by the way, you can get those messages now on YouTube.

If you wanna send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, I'll get you the details on how you can view those messages.

I'll throw in a couple of other thoughts to Anthony's question when we return from

the midway break.

Please be patient with us folks, because the midway break is always a little longer than the other breaks in the show.

Because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida is required by the FCC to

use this break to localize Iron Sharpens Iron Radio

geographically to Lake City, Florida.

And they do so with their own public service announcements and other local things that they announce in the middle of the show, while we

simultaneously air our globally heard commercials.

So please use this time wisely, write down as much of the contact information as you possibly can, provided by as many

of our advertisers as you can, so that you can more frequently and successfully contact our

advertisers.

We hope that that often means you'll buy their products, use their services, support their parachurch organizations and

visit their churches.

But when you cannot do any of those things, there's one thing that anybody listening can do who really loves the show.

Contact as many of our advertisers as you can and thank them for sponsoring this show.

We cannot exist without the financial support of our advertisers folks.

And hearing from you should do something, should go a

long way in their decision making when it comes time for them to renew their advertising contracts.

So please contact them at the very least to thank them.

Also send in your questions to Roger Salter, to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away, we're gonna be right back after these messages.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend, Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I

are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the G3 National Conference.

That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd on a theme that I have been preaching, teaching,

writing about and defending in live public debates for most of my life, the sovereignty of God.

I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Vodie Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott

Anuel and Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries.

And there's more great news.

Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio can get you a 30 discount off the registration

fee.

Go to g3min .org, that's g3min .org and enter promo

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Chris Arnson and I look forward to seeing you all Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd for the G3

National Conference in Atlanta, Georgia on the sovereignty of God.

Make sure you stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron radio exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnson while

you're there.

Go to g3min .org and enter promo code G3ISIR for

your 30 discount off the registration fee.

Dr. Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology

at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

Every Christian who's serious about the deformed faith and to the Westminster standards should have and use

the eight volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the Westminster Larger Catechism titled

Authentic Christianity by Dr. Joseph Morecraft.

It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism.

It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and

systematic theology.

Dr. Morecraft is Pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, and I urge everyone looking

for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.

For details on the eight volume commentary, go to westminstercommentary .com,

westminstercommentary .com.

For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit

heritagepresbyterianchurch .com, heritagepresbyterianchurch .com.

Please tell Dr. Morecraft and the saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia that Dr. Joseph

Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sends you.

Getting a driver's license, running a cash register, flipping burgers, passing sixth grade.

Do you know what they all have in common?

They all require training, assessments, and certifications.

But do you know what requires no training at all?

Becoming a parent.

My name is A .M. Brewster.

I'm the President of Truth, Love, Parent, and host of its award -winning podcast.

I've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s.

And what I've discovered is that the majority of Christian parents have never been biblically equipped to do the work of the ministry in

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We serve God by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents God called and created them to be.

We produce free parenting resources, train church leaders, and offer biblical counseling so that the next generation of

dads and moms can use the scriptures to parent their children for life and godliness.

Please visit us at truthloveparent .com.

Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions,

coffee shops, and local hangouts, Long Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young people

who need Jesus.

We are rural and urban, and we are always about the message of Jesus.

Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong

journey of following Christ.

Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959.

We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in

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Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future.

Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385

-8333.

That's 631 -385 -8333.

Or visit liyfc .org.

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James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other

documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.

And besides that, they feel so good.

I'm so delighted I discovered Post -Tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding.

No radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently, but I'll give it a shot.

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For more details on Post -Tenebrous Lux Bible Rebinding, go to

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the

beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron

Sharpens Iron radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives

to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work

of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And of course, the end of which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes,

or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will

join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior.

Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org.

That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our sovereign

Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and

always.

Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor.

Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron radio has had a long time partnership with our friends at

CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

They specialize in supplying reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them affordable for

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Please let our friends at CVBBS know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American

Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been

sticking with or switching to the NASB.

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I'm Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak, and have grown to love,

Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher

McDowell.

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church

in Coram, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into

the unfathomable riches of Christ in his holy word, and to enthusiastically proclaim

Christ Jesus the King, and his doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and

beyond.

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation, and receive the blessing

of being showered by their love, as I have.

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

That's hopereformedli .net.

Or call 631 -696 -5711.

That's 631 -696 -5711.

Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York, that you heard about them from Tony Costa

on Iron Sharpens Iron.

If you love Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is

by supporting our advertisers.

One such faithful advertiser, who really believes in what Chris Hansen is doing, is

Daniel P. Patafuco, serious injury lawyer and Christian apologist.

Dan is the president and founder of the Historical Bible Society.

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They go to various churches, schools, and institutions to publicly display a rare

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Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio on the air.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

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Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

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We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

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Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And solid -ground -books .com has many books in print that will be

the delight of our Anglican listeners today.

We may have more than normal on the program, or listening to the program.

Just to give you some of the titles that they have, they're in

stock.

Truth and Life, 22 Christ -Centered Sermons by Charles P. McIlvain,

a 19th century bishop of the Protestant Episcopal Church

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There is also a work about Bishop

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and that's by a modern -day author, Thomas Garrett Isham.

And there is a book on Augustus Toplady, and there's all kinds of books written about

and by Anglicans, as well as other segments of

the Christian faith that is seeking to be faithful to the Protestant Reformation and

infinitely more importantly, the scriptures, like Reformed Baptists, Presbyterians,

Congregationalists, et cetera.

So, if you want more information about Solid Ground Christian Books, go to solid -ground -books .com, visit

that website frequently, purchase generously, always mention that you heard about them from Chris Orensen of Iron Trip and

Zion Radio.

And I know my guest, Roger Solter, has a great love and affection and highly values Solid

Ground Christian Books and its founder, Mike Adosh.

Do you not, brother?

I do indeed, Chris.

I have a number.

I'm not very good at remembering all the titles now, but Mike publishes some very

precious and beneficial work from the past and now, contemporary work,

but he also carries a lot of other publications as well that are superb

in their exposition of scripture.

So, Mike's work is of immense value.

In fact, it was Mike Adosh who first introduced me to Roger Solter when I began

interviewing him on the old Iron Sharpens Iron Radio program broadcasting out of WNYG and

WGBB in Babylon, Long Island, New York.

And I'm glad to be continuing to do so today.

Before I return to my discussion with Roger Solter, I just have some important announcements to make.

Please, folks, if you love this show, you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, go to ironsharpensironradio .com,

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You could donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion.

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And also, folks, if you're really struggling to survive and make ends meet, please wait until you are more financially stable and back

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There's two things that are very clear in the Bible about finances.

We are to provide for our churches and provide for our families, and providing for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio

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But if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to provide for church and family,

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Go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click Support, then click Click to Donate Now.

And don't forget, if you wanna advertise, as long as whatever it is you desire to promote is compatible with what I believe, I

would love to help you launch an ad campaign as quickly as possible because we're just as much in urgent need of your advertising dollars

as we are in your donations.

So send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put I Need a Church in the

subject line.

Last but not least, if you are not a member of a Christ -honoring, biblically faithful, theologically

sound, doctrinally solid church like St. Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham, Alabama, no matter where you

live on the planet Earth, I have extensive lists spanning the globe of biblically faithful churches, and I can help you find one,

God willing, just as I have done with many people in our audience spanning the globe.

If you are in that circumstance, that unfortunate circumstance where you are not a member of a biblically faithful

church home, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put I Need a

Church in the subject line.

And that is also the email address where you can send in a question to Roger Salter, and the

email address again is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.

We have a question from Jameson in Orley, Alabama.

Dear Roger, along with Mr. Arnson and yourself, it greatly grieves me that

so many Anglicans, even as you noted, many self -professed Reformed Anglicans, have departed from

the gospel faithfulness to the English Reformation.

Because of this, those of us who reject Anglo -Catholicism and ritualism are often told that we are the

ones who aren't real Anglicans.

We who are committed to the biblical theology of our 39 articles are told we are the

ones who have departed from the historic Anglican faith.

This is frustrating, and it is so easy to answer back in anger and righteous indignation.

However, I fear this kind of reaction more often hurts our cause rather than opening others up to

the Reformed faith.

Do you have any advice for answering these absurd charges against truly Reformed Anglicans in a gentle yet firmly

truthful manner?

How can we encourage nominal Anglicans who confuse Anglo -Catholicism with the historical faith to

learn about the original Reformed heritage of our church?

And that's Jason and Arlie, I'm sorry, Jamison and Arlie Alabama.

Do you have any advice or answers for our listener there?

I have some opinion on it, Chris.

We are instructed to respond to those who disagree with us and oppose us with

gentleness and genuine love.

I think sometimes indignation is appropriate.

It shouldn't be insulting and personal, but I think indignation at the sin

of ridiculing or opposing the truth,

because it endangers souls, it causes confusion in the church, and

sometimes it's hard to separate the two.

The disgust that we feel because we so honor and love the truth of God and

his majesty, and sometimes we can overstep the mark.

I mean, we notice this between Luther and Zwingli and lots of people down

through the generations, even Reformed folk who differed with each other.

It's something I think we always have to, as it were,

rely upon God, present it to him.

And what is my reaction to this?

Because I think sometimes rebuke is very necessary, especially when we

think we discern mischief and dishonesty and sort of plots against the truth.

I don't have an answer to this in general terms.

I think we're all just responsible to consult God first before we

confute any matter of difference, and especially when we think there's false

doctrine or heresy.

But, you know, in the right way, Luther used to say he couldn't preach without anger

because he knows his enemy, he knows his harmfulness, his brutality, his

deceitfulness.

So there is an element of that, that we must be forthright in stating the truth.

And I think at the moment in Anglicanism, we are too pusillanimous, I won't say the

word because it's too big for me.

We are too soft and sentimental when we should be more bold.

And as Archbishop Tymple said, name the sin.

And I think if we name the sin and then repudiate it, we can do things

with proper decorum, boldness, and

without injury, unnecessary injury to those who

are controverting with us.

But I think one of our big problems, Chris, which occurs to me, is that talking about the departure

from the reformed heritage in the church, even within nominally reformed

churches, I think is partly to do with arrogance within the

ministry and the academy, because people like to think they've had an original idea,

fresh and clear from God, that nobody's really grasped.

And when they're so in love with it, it dominates their theology, which creates curiosity,

which creates popularity, and popularity is addictive.

And there's nothing like massaging your own ego by people's approval.

This idea of popularity and especially numerical success, I think is one of the dangers

that is fatal for the church to yield to.

And I just realized that I forgot to put in my own two cents for the

question by Anthony in Hoshton, Georgia, but it was providential because I think this two

cents I'm offering also applies to what Jameson in Arlie, Alabama

asks about.

I think it is very valuable to have at the church where you are a member

either studies or even conferences on church history,

although obviously the inerrant holy scriptures are always supreme

and demand the majority of our attention and study.

At the same time, many of the people who are being deceived by the Church of Rome,

by Eastern Orthodoxy, and by Romish Anglo -Catholics,

they're being deceived into discovering a false understanding

of history that history is on their side.

Roman Catholics very often will boast that the

study of church history is an area where they have cornered the market.

They realize that many Protestants and even evangelicals and even fundamentalists

are totally ignorant about church history.

And they use that vulnerability to deceive people into

thinking that the heresies that they are promoting were the teachings of

Christ and his earliest disciples.

So obviously if you do things like this, you have studies on history, you have to have capable people

who are not only very knowledgeable historically, but are not

themselves deceived and are not ecumenists with Rome or anything like that because you may be just getting yourself into

deeper trouble that way.

But if anybody listening would like me to provide for them a list of men that I

personally would trust implicitly to conduct a seminar, conference, or

study on history, I will be more than happy to give you my recommendations.

But would you think that that is sound advice, Roger?

I really would, Chris.

I think it's of vital importance.

I think historical theology and the development of Christian doctrine is a

subject that is indispensable, yet hardly ministered to the people of God.

Unless somebody's interested in history, they don't refer to it.

They think everything started in the 1940s as far as evangelicalism is

concerned.

I agree with you.

And Jameson, I believe you are, if I'm not mistaken, a first -time questioner.

But if that is the case, please send me your full mailing address there in Arley, Alabama, because you have

won a new American Standard Bible, compliments of the publishers of the NASB, and

also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com, who will actually be the ones

shipping the Bible out to you, at no charge to you or to us.

And that discussion I was just having with two of our listeners

on the importance of being knowledgeable about history.

I'm sure you would also agree with me, Roger, that one of the greatest lies ever

told in church history was told by John Henry

Cardinal Newman, the 19th century convert from Anglicanism to Roman Catholicism,

who said very wrongly and falsely, falsely,

to be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant.

I have found myself over the years, I've been a Christian since the 80s, the more I learn about church history,

the more I'm convinced I made the necessary move to abandon the

idolatry of Rome and its false gospel.

So I'm sure you are heartily echoing my protest to John Henry Cardinal

Newman's ridiculous and false quote.

I've never heard that sentiment before.

Oh, really?

No, never knew he was that prejudiced against accuracy.

This has been the thing in the Church of England is that Cranmer and his

colleagues, they were consigned to, well,

they were hidden, they were concealed and thought ill of.

And I think I've got to be careful.

I think there's a great danger in Anglo -Catholicism.

It has a lot of plausibility.

It uses a lot of the terminology that the articles would use, but it twists and tweaks

the meaning.

So they can be very deceitful with what they say they affirm, that they affirm the historic faith

of Anglicanism.

They do not.

And whilst I have worked a lot in ecumenical situations with

Anglo -Catholics, and I believe that there are many who know God, but

all of us have something lacking in our comprehension of the gospel and the Lord, perhaps more

than we realize.

But I think Anglo -Catholicism has been very

harmful and cruel to the cause of Christ over the generations.

And I try to understand it.

There are some I appreciate in realms of academic study.

I know there are some who genuinely love Christ and heads are out of sync with their hearts.

As Jim Packer said, there are some people who in their intellectual convictions are

quite erroneous, but their hearts are in a different state.

It's as if we're two different people in one

person.

But it's a problem that all these divisions in Anglicanism,

they're rife and they weaken its testimony because there should be one testimony

coming from the Anglican church, not 30, some of which include atheism as a

valid form of Christian discourse.

There was a fellow called Anthony Freedom when I, Anthony Freedom, Freedom, Freeman,

when I left England who had published a book that God was an invention of our minds and we must

declare really, we're talking about concepts and ideals and not

about a personal God or a divine Christ.

It's damning souls.

Amen.

And I'll take one more question on this thread that we have been dealing with and then we'll return

to the actual theme of the show today.

But we have Ronald in Eastern Suffolk

County, Long Island, New York, who says, would you consider the late

Peter Thune to be a reliable voice for Anglicanism?

I know that he was fond of using the phrase reformed Catholicity, but I don't know if he meant

something different than the Anglo -Catholics mean.

He was really affirming orthodox reform doctrine, evangelicalism

and scriptural.

I have a very high regard for Peter Thune.

And I would say as much as any other advocate of the gospel, he is

reliable, but we don't follow everyone 100%.

We don't make an idol or an oracle out of them.

Everybody, I even notice the best of gospel evangelists and thinkers throughout

history are permitted, I'm saying this by God, to have a serious fault and flaw

that make us say they're not infallible.

Well, thank you, Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County.

Well, let's return, as I said, to your theme today and

let's move on to the sovereignty and omnipotence of saving grace.

What is it that you really wanted to drive home today in regard to that

glorious truth and teaching of the Christian faith?

Well, there's such a stunningly wonderful truth, Chris.

When it finally dawns on somebody, it is like a new birth in the mind and the

convictions of the believer.

And it so stresses the majesty and mercy of God and his glory, and it

makes him praiseworthy beyond our ability to

render to him.

I think it is the doctrine that emphasizes the eternality of his love and

the permanence of his love, the freeness of his love, and his absolute reliability

in the election of his people.

There's a, the gospel is whosoever will may come.

And those who are hearing that gospel and rejecting it are

proving the captivity, the bondage of the human will.

It's their own desire to neglect God and depart from him.

And that's what they'll be judged and condemned for.

The gospel leaves everyone without excuse, just as I believe common grace does.

You know, when Paul says in Romans two, or do you show contempt

for the riches of his kindness, tolerance, and patience, not realizing that God's kindness

leads you toward repentance.

You mentioned a little while back, Chris, Herman Heeksma of the most conservative

of Reform Dutch movements.

And I'm a bit hesitant to say this, but I came up against him when I was about 17

or 18.

I wonder if God would protect people from anything I might say is harmful.

He taught that God did nothing of favor towards those he had not elected.

Everything that was directed towards them was to increase their condemnation

and judgment.

And when you were young and impressionable, I began to worry, what if the good things that come my way

from God's hand are really his way of adding greater condemnation to me in my

rejection?

And how do I not know that God in his hatred for the reprobate is also deceiving me,

making me the victim of a delusion?

I found it so hard to cope with a gracious God and

the gospel.

And for that reason, I would say, as much as he was a great theologian and a godly man,

there are great dangers in Heeksma's theology, which have been singled out by

people like Burkhard and Burkoff and

Van Til.

There was a great battle in the Dutch church in the last century over common grace.

And I would say that common grace is that provision by God to give everyone

the invitation to come to him and then prove that those who do not have a steadfast

intention not to yield to the mercy and love of God and to hate his law.

So I want to make that warning, but I hope what I went through in terrible

distress in my early Christian walk is not repeated in anybody else.

This is where I think logical Calvinism, and of course it has to be logic, and I agree with it,

but there are other elements too.

And I think some Calvinists overlook that, and there is a terrible

hubris in them.

God has chosen me.

Who was the fellow who wrote Robinson Crusoe?

That author.

I did know that, but now it's going out of my head.

Yes, well, he was very proud of his election.

I do believe he was a Christian, but I don't think election creates pride in anybody.

It humiliates, it humbles, it breaks.

And then when it does dawn on us, it furnishes us with beauty of soul and

compassion of heart and a testimony that is beneficial to those who hear.

I probably shouldn't have said any of that, Chris, but there is a

lot of harmful dissemination of the Reformed faith, and

we have to stick to scripture.

I think I can't mention the other man.

I want to mention the great Anglican at Trinity Church in Cambridge, Charles.

Charles, John Stott loved him.

Charles Simeon, I believe he was too moderate and not strong enough.

But there are others who have a sort of hard shell to their personality that makes

them fearsome to afflicted and worried, anxious sinners.

By the way, it was Daniel Defoe who wrote Robinson Crusoe.

Yes, you're right, you're right.

And yes, what you are saying about the idea that God never

bestows goodness upon the reprobate on this

earth that is intended for their pleasure in any way, that

really can conjure up in the minds and hearts of

believers an entirely wrong motivation to obey Christ

in our loving of our enemies and doing good for them.

So when we do good for those that are non -Christians, when we

go to a neighbor's home who is sick and we know that that person is lost and we bring them a meal,

we do be doing that because we know in the back of our heads, well, this is gonna really

rake them over the coals on judgment day.

This is gonna make them even more worthy of hell since I'm doing this act of

kindness to them, and we could go, which is really not an act of kindness.

It's an act of retribution or an act of further

condemnation.

Any kind of goodness that we are commanded to perform to

the unbeliever could be manipulated in our minds by a

teaching like that where our motives are totally corrupt and sinful.

Absolutely, Chris, and it's making man more compassionate and righteous than God,

and that is a tragedy.

That is a blasphemous thought.

I think that the person who rejects Christ

deserves it.

That's their mindset.

That is their mindset, but it's a sin against justice, holiness, God's will,

and kindness.

Well, we are going to our final break right now.

It's gonna be briefer or more brief than the other breaks.

If you have any intention to submit a question to Roger Salter, please do so immediately because we're rapidly

running out of time.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state and country of residence.

We'll be right back with Roger Salter after these messages don't go away.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend, Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I

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Hello, my name is Paul Washer, and I'd like to invite you to a conference at Ridgecrest

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their behavior, and they need to go forward and press hard into following Christ,

to growing in maturity, to be a pillar in the church, and also to be a salt and

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of darkness that is coming upon not just the United States of America, but the entire globe.

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It is only through the knowledge of God.

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I'm going to be there, many other speakers, and we are going to be praying that God would do

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in Ridgecrest, North Carolina, with a special edition for singles starting

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And that's next week, May 4th through the 6th, in Ridgecrest, North Carolina.

Also, don't forget, an announcement I made a couple of days ago that

Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries has finally agreed to be the speaker at a

three -day Bible conference that I am arranging with my friends at the Mid -Atlantic

Reformation Society.

This is going to take place the weekend before the G3 Conference in September in Atlanta, Georgia.

It is going to be held Friday the 15th through Sunday the 17th in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

And we don't have the exact location yet or the topic on which Dr. White will speak, but if you

keep listening to this program, you will be updated.

If you want to send me an email for me to put you on a list, well, you'll be notified.

My email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

When, let me read a question from a listener, I'm sorry.

Bobby in Hartsdale, New York.

When we are considering the depravity of man, don't we need

to make sure that we are not confusing our hearers who are foreign to this concept

into thinking that men do not make choices of their own as if we are robots

or as if we are forced to do the things we do by God against our will?

Are you there, Roger?

Yes, I am, Chris.

We forfeited our freedom and our native righteousness in our

first parents.

Adam was born with a free will.

It was susceptible to a flawed decision as much as to

willing obedience to God.

We have forfeited the capacity to think righteously or in any way

to the approval of God.

We are not trusting in a fatalism or a determinism, but the

tragedy of our breach with God that has consequences.

And the consequence is that, yes, we make free decisions, but because of our enslavement to

sin and submission to the evil one, we're not capable of making good,

righteous decisions, but we are responsible.

We were given that responsibility and capacity at our creation.

We have forfeited it.

So I can't go into this in great detail at the moment because I wondered, Chris, can I, with great

rapidity, just sum up something?

Absolutely.

Well, I think scripture teems with testimony to the sovereignty and

omnipotence of saving grace.

And my suggestion is that people don't only get involved in controversy about it and

reading both sides of the issue, but quietly, calmly, and with relying on

Christ, consider portions of scripture like John 6, verse 35 and

following, Romans 9, Ephesians 1, which is the charter of heaven's policy

of plenteous mercy toward the lost.

And then I wanted to close if it's, I've got a couple of minutes, Chris.

Yeah, sure.

I think one of the most wonderful books available to believers is Leon Morris's

The Cross in the New Testament.

And on page 19, there's a quote from Leon and then a quote from

H .H. Rowley, the Baptist Old Testament specialist, which I think is a good way of

drawing this to a conclusion.

But what makes grace omnipotent is the fact of regeneration.

That's a greater act of God than the original creation.

It is equivalent to the power of God that raised Jesus from the dead.

It is a new creation.

We're born from above.

We don't cooperate with it in our earthliness and flesh.

Ezekiel 36 speaks of God will give us a heart of flesh.

Two Thessalonians, oh, I've got two Thessalonians here, Chris.

We ought always to thank God for you.

Why do we thank God for you if he's not the author of salvation?

Brothers loved by the Lord, that's what caused the authorship of salvation because from the beginning,

God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the spirit and belief of the

truth.

He called you through our gospel.

I won't finish that because I just want to get in quickly and cut me off if it's necessary, Chris.

But here is Leon Morris and then H .H. Rowley.

Reference to the elect or to being chosen also point to God's saving act.

Men do not elect or choose themselves.

There is in the essential meaning of the words the thought of the divine initiative.

Unless God chooses to intervene and make some men his own, none will ever be saved.

We know that at the point of our conversion.

There is a tendency in some recent writing to minimize the significance of election.

It is not surprising that in a man -centered age, some writers put their emphasis on

what men may be expected to do.

The term may be retained, but it's meaning tortured out of all recognition.

It must be insisted upon that the gospel speak of an election in which God, not man, is sovereign.

And then H .H. Rowley, I've really come to appreciate him for his insight too, Chris.

He says, H .H. Rowley reminds us that the doctrine of election would seem to be fundamental

to the thought of the Bible in both Old and New Testaments.

That's the biblical doctrine of election by Rowley.

Of church members in the New Testament, he says, they were not men and women who chose to be Christians

or who of their own initiative decided to attach themselves to the church,

but men and women on whom the constraint of God has been laid, who were chosen in Christ and

redeemed by him, and who in individual loyalty had responded to that grace and

pledged themselves without reserve to the obedience of the Lord.

Sums up everything, election, atonement, effectual call, perseverance.

Amen, and you finished just in time because we're out of time.

And if you want to find out more about Roger Salter and St. Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham,

Alabama, rogersalter .com, and Salter is spelled S -A -L -T -E -R without the P,

rogersalter .com.

Thank you so much, Roger, for always being an extraordinary guest.

I love you dearly, and I look forward to your return.

I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who wrote in questions.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you

are a sinner.