April 27, 2023 Show with Roger Salter on “Unregeneracy, Common Grace & Special Grace”

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Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father

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James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister

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George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

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This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

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Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 27th day of April, 2023.

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I'm thrilled to have back on the program a returning guest who is one of my favorite guests to interview.

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He's also a very dear friend. His name is Roger Salter, and he is rector of St. Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham, Alabama, which is a

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Reformed, Confessional, Cranmerian, and historically Protestant congregation firmly committed to the inerrant holy scriptures and the 39 articles of religion.

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And today, Roger is going to be discussing unregeneracy, common grace, and special grace, the depravity and plight of human nature, the restraints of common grace, and the sovereignty and omnipotence of saving grace.

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And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Roger Salter.

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It's a privilege and a delight to be with you, Chris. Praise God, and the feeling is very mutual.

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And one of the reasons, as you know, Roger, when

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I mention that you are a rector of St. Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham, Alabama, that I give a detailed description, a

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Reformed, Confessional, Cranmerian, and historically Protestant congregation firmly committed to the inerrant holy scriptures and the 39 articles of religion.

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I do that, number one, to let our listeners know that not all

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Anglicans are alike, not all Anglican churches are alike. And I don't want our listeners to think that if there is an

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Anglican church down the road from them, or one that calls itself Anglican, that they should be completely at ease to go visit that church and perhaps even join it, because they know

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio has had Anglicans, including Roger Salter, on the program.

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But there is a wide spectrum of those that identify themselves as Anglican, and the longer

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I do this show and the more I interview Anglicans, the wider that spectrum seems to get.

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And it is actually very grievous to me that there are people out there who identify themselves as Anglican clergy who are more committed to the idea that being under the authority of a bishop is much more definitional of what true

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Anglicanism is than to believe, preach, and teach the actual soteriology of what the

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Anglicans of the English Reformation preached and taught. These people will be making claims that you are not an

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Anglican because you're not under a bishop at this point, since you're an independent congregation. And yet these people are teaching

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Romish ideas of salvation. One individual in particular was mocking justification by faith alone on his

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Facebook page, and even offering a theory of purgatory after the death of those who are truly saved, and that the death of Christ wasn't sufficient to completely purge them of sin, so he believes that they have to go through another purging of some sort, even though we who are truly

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Christian believe that Christ's death on the cross was a mission that was completely accomplished, 100%, perfectly accomplished, and that we have no need for any adding of a purgatory or torment or suffering in order to be made right with God.

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Am I making sense here, Roger? Absolutely, Chris, and you've described the declension of Anglicanism, generally speaking, with absolute accuracy.

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It's a heartfelt pain to those of us who are heirs of the Reformation. Our heritage is wonderful, godly, spiritually true, and we see so much departure from the truth in Anglicanism.

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And Reformed Anglicans are a remnant, our congregation is a remnant, and small congregation.

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There are things pending which we present to God in prayer and waiting on him, but numerically you wouldn't say we're thriving, but I think we have to put on our battle armor and fight through this dreadful departure from the truth of God in this denomination which is so split, divided, and errant.

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Yeah, and to go back to this insistence that someone be under the headship of a bishop,

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I wonder what these folks think about Athanasius, that name that is often accompanied by the

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Latin phrase contramundum, Athanasius against the world, because he was in defiance against the majority of church leadership at that time, and this was because he was standing firm on what the

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Bible taught and refusing to bow the knee to the authority of any bishop or council over what the

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Scriptures taught. Yes, yes. I don't know if I'm wise in saying this,

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Chris. It's my own opinion. I think I see a lot of value in the

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Episcopate, but I see credibility in every form of church government. All have their advantages and disadvantages, but from my perspective, the

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Episcopate in Anglicanism is the least of our priorities. The apostolic succession is the gospel, not the men, not the touch on the forehead.

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And if you look at it, most of our troubles have started with bishops and are perpetuated by bishops.

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So they've got to be particularly godly men to be respected and to be followed.

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Well, I'm going to give our listeners our email address right away if they have any questions for my guest,

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Roger Salter. It could be on the subject at hand, which is quite deep, as you heard me announce it, unregeneracy, common grace and special grace, the depravity and plight of human nature, the restraints of common grace and the sovereignty and omnipotence of saving grace.

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And as we proceed diving in and delving into that topic, there will perhaps be something that my guest says that will trigger a question from you.

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But we will welcome any question on Anglicanism in general, on the scriptures, on salvation and so on.

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Send us an email to ChrisArnson at gmail .com. ChrisArnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name, at least, your city and state, and your country of residence, if you live outside the

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USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Let's say you are troubled by what you are hearing and witnessing in the

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Anglican church to which you belong, and you don't want to, at this point in time, identify yourself.

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Perhaps you're even the rector or pastor or leader in that church, and you have very serious disagreements rising between you and others in that congregation or parish, or perhaps even with your bishop.

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Well, whatever reason that you want to remain anonymous, we can completely understand that.

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But if it's just a general question, please give us your first name, at least, your city and state, and country of residence.

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Well, let's start with the very first word in this theme, unregeneracy.

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I'm assuming this is in reference to the state of being unregenerate, which means the new birth has not yet taken place in an individual or people.

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These people, under the curse of unregeneracy, have not yet been given a new heart by the

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Lord, have not yet been filled with the Holy Spirit, therefore they are spiritually dead. Is that what you're referring to?

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Absolutely, Chris. I'm thinking of it not only in terms of individuals, but of society.

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When I watch news and current affairs and commentary, I am suddenly reminding myself that the voices

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I'm listening to may have a certain worldly wisdom, but they have no reference to the things of God and ultimate truth.

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And we're bound to hear so much error, propaganda, lies. And I feel that when we're listening to the media, it's very hard to discern what we can trust or not.

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So I'm thinking along both levels, the individual human being who needs to be recreated, resurrected to life in Christ, without that we are dead to God, except for his sovereign interventions in our life and thoughts, which of course takes place, but also how wicked our culture is, our society, the whole world.

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But Western culture, which has had this Judeo -Christian background and heritage for centuries, is abandoning it and wasting it and withering because of it.

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My mind goes back to two articles I read in the 70s,

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Chris, when I first went to England. Alec Motyer and Martin Lloyd -Jones, both a couple of years between them, wrote articles suspecting that God had allowed us to go as far as he will allow in our wickedness and departure from him.

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That was over 50 years ago, and in those decades we've departed even more outrageously, dangerously and blasphemously.

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So that even public discourse is vulgar. You hear so many people swearing, even those who are supposed to be the elite of our society.

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Their language is offensive, as well as their thought and their ungodliness, their arrogance and trust in man.

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So I feel this level of urgent dissatisfaction and disappointment with our media, our social discourse, our leadership in every area of human enterprise.

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We are desperately lost, and I think once again someone ought to be re -reading and re -preaching

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Jonathan Edwards, the wrath of God, the anger of God. We need to be woken up and we need to fear the

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Lord in the same way that I would fear an 18 -wheeler heading for me at 120 miles per hour.

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It's real fear. It's not just respect and reverence. We have got to fear

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God. He is immense in his power. He is a fire, and I believe that fear has dissipated and departed even from those who profess faith in Christ.

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We've sentimentalized the religion to, it's a candy box kind of thing now.

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And that really stirs me to alarm and seriousness about this topic.

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Well, the next two phrases that you have used in your theme today, common grace and special grace,

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Common grace is a phrase that is highly objected to by a certain segment of the

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Reformed faith. In particular, I'm speaking of the Protestant Reformed Church of North America denomination.

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They believe that every time we use the term grace, it should always be applied to something that is salvific.

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And the majority of Reformed Christians disagree with that distinction. But we'll have to wait for a future time to really get into the depth of that dispute, perhaps even have a debate on my program about it.

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But common grace and special grace, common grace being the mercy demonstrated to the elect and the reprobate alike on this earth, with the goodness that he bestows upon all of humanity in general, and the fact that even the worst of sinners often enjoy a wonderful family life in their home, enjoy health, wealth, and prosperity, and all kinds of things we could list.

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But special grace, in contrast to that, is really speaking of specifically

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God's grace toward the elect and him bringing them to himself and saving them. Am I right in that distinction?

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You are. You are, Chris. And I wondered if I could go back to depravity and work through common grace with you and the other topics.

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Because given the depravity of man and our absolute helplessness in sin, which

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I don't feel even most of our so -called evangelicals understand, it's amazing how much we rely on self -effort and self -righteousness.

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But given the depravity of man and the misery it causes to us, the fact that there is anything decent or beneficial or enjoyable of life means that common grace mitigates the hell that we've created for ourselves.

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I mean, our depravity has placed us in the neighborhood of hell. It's only

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God's delay and patience that prevents us all from sliding into that terrible destiny.

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But, Chris, I actually made some notes this morning. Can I resort to them?

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Oh, of course. And please interrupt me anytime you feel it's beneficial or off, you know, off -piste, as they say with their skiing terminology.

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But I was thinking that, you know, even as believers we cannot and do not grasp the reality of our plight.

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Well, you know, our approach to God, our return to him, our receiving of salvation and living in holiness is a rather low priority, especially when you compare us with the great saints of the past.

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But I think that we need to recognize that everyone outside of Christ is in the thrall and captivity of satanic evil and the bondage of his great lie about reality in all its detail.

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And so we must expect deceit, dishonesty, hatefulness and the rule of deception in the wicked heart and lying language of our unrenovated race.

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Because our sorry plight is mitigated by the interventions and involvement of God in our murky swamp.

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And we reside, as I said, in the neighborhood of hell itself.

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Only the kindness and goodness of God alleviates our misery and pending doom.

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I don't think we as a church anymore, and it's not for me to speak too much in generalisms, but I don't think we hold the truth in anywhere near its fullness and the alarm of our standing before God.

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And so I'm going to say that every glibly Bible -quoting evangelical scarcely knows the gravity of the verdict of God's pure and perfect revelation of ultimate matters for our consideration in his spoken and recorded word.

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I just don't think we've got it, Chris. And we're dithering about on the surface.

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And all this business about organizing denominations and affiliations is a distraction.

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What we need really is the Lord in our hearts and minds, first of all. That creates true

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Christian unity, not ecumenism. And we've really got to get...

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Now I'm talking about an Anglican. I think this dependence upon the episcopate is idolatry and the setting of man on the throne and not the

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Lord. I know good bishops, but the majority of them are a waste of space and leading people, blind people, and leading blind people into the ditch behind them.

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It's tragic that Anglicanism messes about with ceremonial and things of no fundamental importance to the well -being of the soul.

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All process, government, you know, developing new movements and saying there's a resurgence of the past.

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That hasn't happened in Anglicanism. We've not got anything as a distinct group or party that really advocates what

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I call the doctrines of grace from Scripture, when we call historically Augustinian, Augustinianism, and the

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Reformed heritage. It's a tragedy. Well, I am assuming that you've stopped referring to your notes at this point, hence the pause here.

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So let us move on to the fact that we who are

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Reformed, when we are referring to the depravity and plight of human nature, we are referring to something that has been known historically by the theological term total depravity.

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And perhaps you could expound on this a bit more. But am I correct in saying that when we say that man at the moment of his conception in the womb is totally depraved, that does not mean that he will behave as wickedly as he possibly can, but that every aspect of his life is enslaved to sin.

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So even when he does things that for all outward appearances look as though they are wonderful deeds, there really is a selfish or sinful motivation behind them.

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So everything that a person who is totally depraved, that is every human being before their regeneration, everything they do is tainted with sin, and nothing that they can do will please

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God. So therefore the total, again, is not in reference to them being as wicked as they could be, because obviously that's not true, but that the total embodiment of their being is enslaved to sin.

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Isn't that really what Calvin and the other Reformers, when they were referring to that teaching, isn't that what they were referring to?

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Yes, I think so, Chris. I mean, you hit upon it when you indicated that every faculty is corrupted, and everything we do is out of self -interest, either for our gratification or our domination of something, or our dictating terms to other people as to how they can please us.

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We are at the centre of our action, and it's not God's glory that we seek in humility and gratitude.

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So this is the shocker. When you really analyse it, if God gives you illumination of conscience, everything you do is in self -interest, unless God has renovated your heart and given you an outward perspective of wishing to glorify him and to be a blessing to others.

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So, yes, total depravity. No one's as bad as they are potentially likely to be.

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God restrains us. That, to me, is what common grace is all about.

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But when you look into the human heart, you see how much Jeremiah in 17 .9

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says that the heart is deceitful beyond all things. Who can know it?

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When people say, oh, trust your heart, that's the worst thing you can trust. We don't know it.

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We don't know how it functions. We don't understand it. And it gets us into trouble all the time by various devious means and causing us to deceive ourselves about practically everything we envisage.

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So, you know, our hearts, what I really notice in that statement of Jeremiah is that, humanly speaking, without the divine intervention is beyond cure.

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We're not just handicapped or sick. We are dead and done for before God.

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And our future and our whole motivation and activity is in vain.

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It's futile. The scriptures are so honest about our condition,

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Chris. I mean, Romans 8 .5 -8, everyone happily goes to the end of Romans, you know.

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Nothing should separate us from the love of God. But before grace, we are separated from that love.

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And I won't look up the passage, but it talks about this native and permanent antipathy and hostility towards God.

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The flesh cannot please God and it doesn't want to. It's unable and it has no desire.

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And we rage against God in our hearts. And I don't think most Christians have discovered that.

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They see themselves as ailing, but not as desperate and lost and incurable until the grace of God intervenes.

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Yes, and we are going to pick up right where you left off there after we return from our first commercial break.

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Once again, if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question for Roger Salter, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com,

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We're now back with my guest today, Roger Salter, Director of St.

40:15

Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham, Alabama. We are discussing unregeneracy, common grace and special grace, the depravity and plight of human nature, the restraints of common grace, and the sovereignty and omnipotence of saving grace.

40:30

We do have a listener who is interestingly asking something about something that Roger and I had discussed maybe a week ago or so over the phone, but this listener, whose name is

40:49

Christopher in Western Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, asks,

40:55

I was wondering what your guest thinks of the Anglican in the Free Church of England known as Calvin Robinson.

41:03

He seems to be right on the money when it comes to the culture wars, and he is completely on the side of biblical morality and ethics, but when it comes to his soteriology and other beliefs, when

41:19

I investigated his website, he seems much too Romish for my blood.

41:24

I was wondering what your thoughts are, Roger. I would hesitate about commenting on Calvin as an individual.

41:36

He is very useful on the cultural and sociological issues from a

41:44

Christian perspective, and very courageous. I'm trying to be polite.

41:50

I'm very hesitant about his soteriological approach, and I well,

41:59

I think the person who has asked the question has really preempted my answer.

42:06

Yeah, Calvin, very articulate man. I used to love to see him appear on Tucker Carlson's program, when

42:11

Tucker actually had a program on Fox News before the insane act of being fired by those folks at Fox, but when

42:21

I even explored his website because I was interested in possibly inviting him on the program, which

42:28

I still may do, perhaps even involving a debate if he would be willing to be involved in one, but I found his website to reveal that he is

42:40

Anglo -Catholic on steroids. Very, very

42:46

Romish, which actually makes me wonder why he is not Roman Catholic.

42:51

He's so extremely to that end of the spectrum. But that may seem like it is out of the realm of our topic, but it's actually not, because some of the things that you were mentioning, the unregeneracy of our current culture, not only our own nation, but the globe, the insanity that's going on, there is definitely a tendency on a part of many people who are truly

43:26

Christian and truly sound theologically, to be too wrapped up in alliances with those that are outside of the true

43:37

Christian faith. And I would have to say anyone who has a false gospel is outside of the true

43:42

Christian faith. And we have to know where to draw the line in these associations that we have.

43:51

I'm not saying that we should never have any associations at all with people with whom we agree on social and moral issues.

44:01

And every time somebody votes, if they're not voting for a

44:08

Bible -believing, born -again Christian, they are, in some realm, doing that. They're cooperating in some sense with an unbeliever for the cause of good on this earth.

44:21

But this can be a difficult task, can it not, Roger, when we try to not completely isolate ourselves from very helpful humans on the front lines of the culture wars, but at the same time not falling prey to adopting them as brothers and sisters in Christ, as many of our true brothers and sisters in Christ do on occasion.

44:48

They welcome or identify people as brothers and sisters in Christ because of their shared abhorrence for immorality.

44:58

And this is dangerous, isn't it? It really is, Chris, and I would think that the influence of people like Calvin is some evidence of common grace working at a human and societal level for the improvement of our earthly affairs and lives.

45:18

There are a number of former evangelicals who have gone to Rome and they talk about the love of Jesus and wanting to exalt him, but they never expound the gospel of the cross, which of course is at the very heart of the divine message of salvation.

45:40

And I think that there are denominations now that started out from the Reformed heritage, like the

45:47

Free Church of England and like the Reformed Episcopal Church here, that have now gone over to Rome and are actually disloyal to the gospel and undermining the witness of scripture and replacing it with ceremony and sacramentalism.

46:07

And so there is this great danger that these people who are beneficial in some sense or other are also very dangerous to the heart of the gospel.

46:19

And it's almost like a self -improvement exercise, that if we follow, like the other fellow from Canada, whose name escapes me for a moment, we follow their ten points and we'll be okay.

46:32

It is only scripture that prescribes the way of salvation and it has to be adhered to as closely as God enables us.

46:43

So I'm very disappointed in these fellows who have reneged on our

46:50

Protestant and Reformational heritage, extoll Catholicism, in which there is some spiritual and devotional wisdom.

46:59

Even the Reformers recognised that and worked for a union at various times.

47:04

But we always come up against the problem of justification by faith alone, which a lot of Catholics did accept, especially in Italy, but also the sovereignty of grace.

47:19

And so one has very mixed feelings about this. We have another listener,

47:26

Anthony in Hoshton, Georgia. Pastor Salter, we are enjoying today's program and what you have been presenting on these topics.

47:35

If I could ask you for your experienced perspective on what has caused a fall -off, a declension, in some of the historic

47:45

Reformed works such as the Anglican Church. We are glad, obviously, that you are standing for truth in your

47:55

Assembly, but would you be so kind to offer your thoughts on why there seems to be a serious decline among many of the

48:02

Reformed works? Are the young people not stepping up? Has Evangelicalism taken a back seat to some of the new technological age and innovations that we rely on instead of doing the first works?

48:18

If you have any, if you have had any recurring thoughts on this, perhaps they will help us hold the line and maybe advance the

48:27

Gospel for the Kingdom. That's Anthony in Hoshton, Georgia. I sincerely mean this,

48:35

Chris. I'm not a wise man. I simply observe and sometimes only partially.

48:42

I mean, the cause of this is our departure from the pure and holy

48:49

Word of God. That is a tendency that is in every human heart, even those most resolved to be loyal to Scripture.

48:58

So the declension comes from our failure to listen to God in any profound way and then to badly edit

49:06

His Word and eventually to deny it, to contradict it. And that's happening at such a rate in so many ways in the contemporary

49:16

Church. I think our hearts are not really devoted to God in that totality that is desirable for citizens of the

49:27

Kingdom. We reserve certain things intellectually, emotionally, in terms of our affections.

49:35

We draw the line somewhere and we refuse to yield ourselves totally to the

49:42

Lord. Impossible for all of us, but it should be progressive as we walk with God and rely on Him.

49:50

I think it shows that our hearts are deceitful, that we invent things alongside the

49:57

Word of God. We're very bad editors of the Word of God. We'll quote something from the

50:03

Bible and then invent something that we think is compatible with it, in denial of the overall meaning of Scripture.

50:12

You know the analogy of Scripture? That things have got to fit into the totality of the divine message.

50:19

So I think there's pride, I think there's dissatisfaction, the tendency to spiritual adultery, that we are just not dependable.

50:29

And we wander, which is why we are called sheep. But I would like to be more comprehensive, but at the moment,

50:39

Chris, I don't think I can summarize it. I'm appalled at it. God has given us in the

50:46

Reformation and subsequent eras a good heritage to cling to, and we toss it away.

50:54

As somebody said, the Church needs Reformation, is it every two generations? It's an assumption or a calculation, but every 30 to 40 years, the

51:04

Reformation needs to be repeated and restored. Yeah, in fact, I just had an

51:10

Iron Shepherds Iron Radio Pastors luncheon and a subsequent three -day Bible conference.

51:16

The first was held in Loisville, Pennsylvania, the second in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. And my speakers,

51:24

Dr. William Webster, who is a Banner of Truth author and also pastor of Grace Bible Church of Battleground, Washington, and Rev.

51:32

David T. King, who is a pastor at Christ Church in Cady, Texas. They were both affirming in that conference, especially, the need for another

51:43

Reformation within the Evangelical Church. And that the

51:49

Evangelical Church has abandoned and rejected what the men who are allegedly their

51:56

Founding Fathers taught from the Scriptures. So it is,

52:03

I echo that very loudly. And I think that Dr.

52:10

Webster and Rev. King did an outstanding job. And by the way, you can get those messages now on YouTube.

52:17

If you want to send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, I'll get you the details on how you can view those messages.

52:23

I'll throw in a couple of other thoughts to Anthony's question when we return from the midway break.

52:31

Please be patient with us, folks, because the midway break is always a little longer than the other breaks in the show.

52:37

Because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, is required by the FCC to use this break to localize

52:46

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio geographically to Lake City, Florida. And they do so with their own public service announcements and other local things that they announce in the middle of the show while we simultaneously air our globally heard commercials.

53:03

So please use this time wisely. Write down as much of the contact information as you possibly can, provided by as many of our advertisers as you can, so that you can more frequently and successfully contact our advertisers.

53:16

We hope that that often means you'll buy their products, use their services, support their parachurch organizations and visit their churches.

53:24

But when you cannot do any of those things, there's one thing that anybody listening can do who really loves this show.

53:30

Contact as many of our advertisers as you can and thank them for sponsoring this show. We cannot exist without the financial support of our advertisers, folks.

53:39

And hearing from you should do something. It should go a long way in their decision making when it comes time for them to renew their advertising contracts.

53:51

So please contact them at the very least to thank them. Also send in your questions to Roger Salter, Chris Arnzen at gmail .com,

53:59

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away, we're going to be right back after these messages. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

54:19

I'm very excited to announce that my long time friend Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the

54:27

G3 National Conference. That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd.

54:32

On a theme that I've been preaching, teaching, writing about, and defending in live public debates for most of my life, the sovereignty of God.

54:40

I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Vody Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott Anuel, and Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries.

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And there's more great news. Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio can get you a 30 % discount off the registration fee.

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Go to g3min .org, that's g3min .org, and enter promo code g3isir.

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That's g3isir for the 30 % discount. Chris Arnzen and I look forward to seeing you all

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Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd for the G3 National Conference in Atlanta, Georgia on the sovereignty of God.

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Make sure you stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnzen while you're there.

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Go to g3min .org and enter promo code g3isir g3isir for your 30 % discount off the registration fee.

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I'm Dr. Joseph Piper, President Emeritus and Professor of Systematic and Applied Theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

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Every Christian who's serious about the Deformed Faith and the Westminster Standards should have and use the eight -volume commentary on the

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Theology and Ethics of the Westminster Larger Catechism titled Authentic Christianity by Dr.

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Joseph Morecraft. It is much more than an exposition of the Larger Catechism. It is a thoroughly researched work that utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and systematic theology.

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Dr. Morecraft is Pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia and I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine congregation.

56:43

For details on the eight -volume commentary, go to westminstercommentary .com westminstercommentary .com

56:51

For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit heritagepresbyterianchurch .com

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heritagepresbyterianchurch .com heritagepresbyterianchurch .com Please tell Dr. Morecraft and the saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, that Dr.

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Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sent you. I've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s, and what

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That's liyfc .org James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

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If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.

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This is Pastor Bill Sousa of Grace Church at Franklin here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

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Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens Iron Radio financially.

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Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers who strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work of our

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If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe ten minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

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That's gracechurchatfranklin .org This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

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Sovereign Lord God, Savior and King Jesus Christ today and always.

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When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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Just to give you some of the titles that they have there in stock,

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Mike Adosh, do you not, brother? I do indeed, Chris. I have a number,

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So Mike's work is of immense value. In fact, it was Mike Adosh who first introduced me to Roger Salter when

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I began interviewing him on the old Iron Sharpens Iron Radio program broadcasting out of WNYG and WGBB in Babylon, Long Island, New York.

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And I'm glad to be continuing to do so today. Before I return to my discussion with Roger Salter, I just have some important announcements to make.

01:13:00

Please folks, if you love this show, you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, go to ironsharpensironradio .com,

01:13:06

click support, then click, click to donate now. You could donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion, and if you prefer snail mail, mailing in a physical check to a physical address the old -fashioned way, there will also be a physical address that appears on your screen where you can mail your checks made payable to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio when you click support at ironsharpensironradio .com.

01:13:29

I want to remind you folks, please never donate to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio by cutting into the money that you have set aside to give to your own church where you are a member on the

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Lord's Day. Please don't do that. In other words, don't give your own church where you're a member less money than you're accustomed to giving your church in order to bless us with a gift, and also folks, if you're really struggling to survive and make ends meet, please wait until you are more financially stable and back on your feet before you send us a gift.

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There's two things that are very clear in the Bible about finances. We are to provide for our churches and provide for our families and providing for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is obviously not a command of God, but if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to provide for your church and family, you have extra money collecting interest in the bank, you have extra money for benevolent, recreational, and trivial purposes, and you love the show and you don't want it to disappear, please share some of that money with us.

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Go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now, and don't forget if you want to advertise as long as whatever it is you desire to promote is compatible with what

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I believe, I would love to help you launch an ad campaign as quickly as possible because we're just as much in urgent need of your advertising dollars as we are in your donations.

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So send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put

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I need a church in the subject line. Last but not least, if you are not a member of a

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Christ -honoring, biblically faithful, theologically sound, doctrinally solid church like St. Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham, Alabama, no matter where you live on the planet

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Earth, I have extensive lists spanning the globe of biblically faithful churches and I can help you find one, God willing, just as I have done with many people in our audience spanning the globe.

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If you are in that circumstance, that unfortunate circumstance where you are not a member of a biblically faithful home, church home, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com,

01:15:31

chrisarnson at gmail .com, and put I need a church in the subject line. And that is also the email address where you can send in a question to Roger Salter, and the email address again is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:15:44

Give us a first name at least, city and state, and country of residence. We have a question from Jameson in Orleigh, Alabama.

01:15:52

Dear Roger, along with Mr. Arnson and yourself, it greatly grieves me that so many

01:15:58

Anglicans, even as you noted many self -professed Reformed Anglicans, have departed from the gospel faithfulness to the

01:16:06

English Reformation. Because of this, those of us who reject Anglo -Catholicism and Ritualism are often told that we are the ones who aren't real

01:16:15

Anglicans. We who are committed to the biblical theology of our 39 articles and are told we are the ones who have departed from the historic

01:16:24

Anglican faith. This is frustrating, and it is so easy to answer back in anger and righteous indignation.

01:16:30

However, I fear this kind of reaction more often hurts our cause rather than opening others up to the

01:16:36

Reformed faith. Do you have any advice for answering these absurd charges against truly

01:16:43

Reformed Anglicans in a gentle yet firmly truthful manner? How can we encourage nominal

01:16:48

Anglicans who confuse Anglo -Catholicism with the historical faith to learn about the original

01:16:54

Reformed heritage of our church? And that's Jameson in Orleigh, Alabama.

01:17:01

Do you have any advice or answers for our listener there? I have some opinion on it,

01:17:10

Chris. We are instructed to respond to those who disagree with us and oppose us with gentleness and genuine love.

01:17:22

I think sometimes indignation is appropriate. It shouldn't be insulting and personal, but I think indignation at the sin of ridiculing or opposing the truth, because it endangers souls, it causes confusion in the church, and sometimes it's hard to separate the two.

01:17:49

The disgust that we feel because we so honor and love the truth of God and his majesty, and sometimes we can overstep the mark.

01:17:59

I mean, we notice this between Luther and Zwingli and lots of people down through the generations, even

01:18:08

Reformed folk who differed with each other. It's something I think we always have to, as it were, rely upon God, present it to him.

01:18:20

And what is my reaction to this? Because I think sometimes rebuke is very necessary, especially when we think we discern mischief and dishonesty and sort of plots against the truth.

01:18:38

I don't have an answer to this in general terms. I think we're all just responsible to consult

01:18:45

God first before we confuse any matter of difference, and especially when we think there's false doctrine or heresy.

01:18:55

But, you know, in the right way, Luther used to say he couldn't preach without anger, because he knows his enemy.

01:19:04

He knows his harmfulness, his brutality, his deceitfulness. So there is an element of that, that we must be forthright in stating the truth.

01:19:15

And I think at the moment, in Anglicanism, we are too pusillanimous.

01:19:20

I won't say the word because it's too big for me. We are too soft and sentimental, when we should be more bold.

01:19:29

And as Archbishop Temple said, name the sin. And I think if we name the sin, and then repudiate it, we can do things with proper decorum, boldness, and without injury, unnecessary injury.

01:19:49

To those who are controverting with us. But I think one of our big problems,

01:19:54

Chris, which occurs to me, is that talking about the departure from the

01:20:00

Reformed heritage in the Church, even within nominally Reformed churches,

01:20:06

I think is partly to do with arrogance within the ministry and the academy.

01:20:13

Because people like to think they've had an original idea, fresh and clear from God, that nobody's really grasped.

01:20:21

And when they're so in love with it, it dominates their theology, which creates curiosity, which creates popularity, and popularity is addictive.

01:20:31

And there's nothing like, you know, massaging your own ego by people's approval. This idea of popularity, and especially numerical success,

01:20:41

I think is one of the dangers that is fatal for the Church to heal to. And I just realized that I forgot to put in my own two cents for the question by Anthony in Hoshton, Georgia, but it was providential because I think this two cents

01:21:00

I'm offering also applies to what Jameson in Arlie, Alabama asks about.

01:21:07

I think it is very valuable to have at the church where you are a member, either studies or even conferences on church history.

01:21:20

Although, obviously, the inerrant Holy Scriptures are always supreme and demand the majority of our attention and study.

01:21:32

At the same time, many of the people who are being deceived by the

01:21:37

Church of Rome, by Eastern Orthodoxy, and by Romish Anglo -Catholics, they're being deceived into discovering a false understanding of history, that history is on their side.

01:21:56

Roman Catholics very often will boast that the study of church history is an area where they have cornered the market.

01:22:07

They realize that many Protestants and even evangelicals and even fundamentalists are totally ignorant about church history, and they use that vulnerability to deceive people into thinking that the heresies that they are promoting were the teachings of Christ and his earliest disciples.

01:22:32

So, obviously, if you do things like this, you have studies on history, you have to have capable people who are not only very knowledgeable historically, but are not themselves deceived and are not ecumenists with Rome or anything like that, because you may be just getting yourself into deeper trouble that way.

01:22:53

But if anybody listening would like me to provide for them a list of men that I personally would trust implicitly to conduct a seminar, conference, or study on history,

01:23:08

I will be more than happy to give you my recommendations. But would you think that that is sound advice,

01:23:14

Roger? I really would, Chris. I think it's of vital importance.

01:23:20

I think historical theology and the development of Christian doctrine is a subject that is indispensable, yet hardly ministered to the people of God.

01:23:32

Unless somebody's interested in history, they don't refer to it. They think everything started in the 1940s as far as evangelicalism is concerned.

01:23:43

I agree with you. And, Jameson, I believe you are, if I'm not mistaken, a first -time questioner.

01:23:54

But if that is the case, please send me your full mailing address there in Arlie, Alabama, because you have won a new

01:24:02

American Standard Bible, compliments of the publishers of the NASB, and also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CVBBS .com,

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who will actually be the ones shipping the Bible out to you at no charge to you or to us. And that discussion

01:24:20

I was just having with two of our listeners on the importance of being knowledgeable about history,

01:24:27

I'm sure you would also agree with me, Roger, that one of the greatest lies ever told in church history was told by John Henry Cardinal Newman, the 19th century convert from Anglicanism to Roman Catholicism, who said very wrongly and falsely, to be deep in history is to cease to be

01:24:56

Protestant. I have found myself over the years, I've been a Christian since the 80s, the more

01:25:01

I learn about church history, the more I'm convinced I made the necessary move to abandon the idolatry of Rome and its false gospels.

01:25:13

So I'm sure you are heartily echoing my protest to John Henry Cardinal Newman's ridiculous and false quote.

01:25:23

I've never heard that sentiment before. Oh really? No, never knew he was that prejudiced against accuracy.

01:25:33

This has been the thing in the Church of England, is that Cranmer and his colleagues, they were consigned to, well they were hidden, they were concealed and thought ill of.

01:25:49

And I think, I think I've got to be careful.

01:25:55

I think there's a great danger in Anglo -Catholicism. It has a lot of plausibility, it uses a lot of the terminology that the articles would use, but it twists and tweaks the meaning.

01:26:09

So they can be very deceitful with what they say they affirm, that they affirm the historic faith of Anglicanism.

01:26:17

They do not. And whilst I have worked a lot in ecumenical situations with Anglo -Catholics, and I believe that there are many who know

01:26:28

God, but you know all of us have something lacking in our comprehension of the

01:26:34

Gospel and the Lord, perhaps more than we realize. But I think

01:26:40

Anglo -Catholicism has been very harmful and cruel to the cause of Christ over the generations.

01:26:50

And I try to understand it. There are some I appreciate in realms of academic study.

01:26:58

I know there are some who genuinely love Christ, and heads are out of sync with their hearts.

01:27:05

As Jim Packer said, there are some people who in their intellectual convictions are quite erroneous, but their hearts are in a different state.

01:27:15

It's as if we're, you know, two different people and in one person.

01:27:23

But it's a problem that all these divisions in Anglicanism are, they're rife and they weaken its testimony.

01:27:34

Because there should be one testimony coming from the Anglican Church, not 30, some of which include atheism as a valid form of Christian, you know, discourse.

01:27:47

There was a fellow called Anthony Freedom when I, Anthony Freedom, Freeman, when

01:27:53

I left England who had published a book that God was an invention of our minds and we must declare really we're talking about concepts and, you know, ideals and not about a personal

01:28:06

God or a divine Christ. It's damning souls.

01:28:15

Amen. And I'll take one more question on this thread that we have been dealing with and then we'll return to the actual theme of the show today.

01:28:27

But we have Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, New York, who says, would you consider the late

01:28:38

Peter Toon to be a reliable voice for Anglicanism? I know that he was fond of using the phrase

01:28:46

Reformed Catholicity, but I don't know if he meant something different than the Anglo -Catholics mean.

01:28:54

He was really affirming orthodox Reformed doctrine, evangelicalism and scriptural.

01:29:01

I have a very high regard for Peter Toon and I would say as much as any other advocate of the gospel, he is reliable, but we don't trust everyone, we don't follow everyone 100%, we don't make an idol or an oracle out of them.

01:29:20

Everybody, I even notice the best of gospel evangelists and thinkers throughout history are permitted,

01:29:28

I'm saying this by God, to have a serious fault and flaw that make us say they're not infallible.

01:29:36

Well thank you, Ronald, in Eastern Suffolk County. Well let's return, as I said, to your theme today and let's move on to the sovereignty and omnipotence of saving grace.

01:29:52

What is it that you really wanted to drive home today in regard to that glorious truth and teaching of the

01:30:01

Christian faith? Well there's such a stunningly wonderful truth,

01:30:07

Chris, when it finally dawns on somebody, it is like a new birth in the mind and the convictions of the believer.

01:30:16

And it so stresses the majesty and mercy of God and his glory and it makes him praiseworthy beyond our ability to render to him.

01:30:31

I think it is the doctrine that emphasizes the eternality of his love and the permanence of his love, the freeness of his love, and his absolute reliability in the election of his people.

01:30:46

The gospel is whosoever will may come and those who are hearing that gospel and rejecting it are proving the captivity, the bondage of the human will.

01:31:02

It's their own desire to neglect God and depart from him and that's what they'll be judged and condemned for.

01:31:10

The gospel leaves everyone without excuse, just as I believe common grace does.

01:31:16

You know when Paul says in Romans 2, or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance.

01:31:31

You mentioned a little while back, Chris, Herman Heeksma of the most conservative of Reform Dutch movements.

01:31:41

And I'm a bit hesitant to say this, but I came up against him when I was about 17 or 18.

01:31:50

I wonder if God would protect people from anything I might say is harmful.

01:31:56

He taught that God did nothing of favor towards those he had not elected.

01:32:03

Everything that was directed towards them was to increase their condemnation and judgment.

01:32:11

And when you're young and impressionable, I began to worry, what if the good things that come my way from God's hand are really his way of adding greater condemnation to me in my rejection.

01:32:24

And how do I not know that God in his hatred for the reprobate is also deceiving me, making me the victim of a delusion.

01:32:33

I found it so hard to cope with a gracious God and the gospel.

01:32:41

And for that reason I would say as much as he was a great theologian and a godly man, there are great dangers in Heeksma's theology which have been singled out by people like Burkhard and Burkoff and Van Til.

01:33:00

There was a great battle in the Dutch Church in the last century over common grace.

01:33:07

And I would say that common grace is that provision by God to give everyone the invitation to come to him and then prove that those who do not have a steadfast intention not to yield to the mercy and love of God and to hate his law.

01:33:25

So I want to make that warning but I hope what I went through in terrible distress in my early

01:33:33

Christian walk is not repeated in anybody else. This is where I think logical

01:33:41

Calvinism, and of course it has to be logic and I agree with it, but there are other elements too.

01:33:47

And I think some Calvinists overlook that. And there is a terrible hubris in them.

01:33:54

God has chosen me. Who was the fellow who wrote Robinson Crusoe? That author.

01:34:00

I did know that, but now it's going out of my head. Yes, well he was very proud of his election.

01:34:08

I do believe he was a Christian, but I don't think election creates pride in anybody.

01:34:15

It humiliates, it humbles, it breaks, and then when it does dawn on us it furnishes us with beauty of soul and compassion of heart and a testimony that is beneficial to those who hear.

01:34:30

I probably shouldn't have said any of that, Chris, but you know there is a lot of harmful dissemination of the

01:34:40

Reformed faith and we have to stick to Scripture. I think,

01:34:47

I can't mention the other man I want to mention, the great Anglican at Trinity Church in Cambridge, Charles.

01:34:55

Charles, John Stott loved him. Charles Simeon. I believe he was too moderate and not strong enough, but there are others who have a sort of hard shell to their personality that makes them fearsome to afflicted and worried, anxious sinners.

01:35:18

By the way, it was Daniel Defoe who wrote Robinson Crusoe. Yes, you're right, you're right. And yes, what you are saying about the idea that God never bestows goodness upon the reprobate on this earth that is intended for their pleasure in any way, that really can conjure up in the minds and hearts of believers an entirely wrong motivation to obey

01:35:52

Christ in our loving of our enemies and doing good for them. So when we do good for those that are non -Christians, when we go to a neighbor's home who is sick and we know that that person is lost and we bring them a meal, we do be doing that because we know in the back of our heads, well this is going to really rake them over the coals on Judgment Day.

01:36:20

You know, this is going to make them even more worthy of hell since I'm doing this act of kindness to them, which is really not an act of kindness.

01:36:31

It's an act of retribution or an act of further condemnation.

01:36:39

You know, any kind of goodness that we are commanded to perform to the unbeliever could be manipulated in our minds by a teaching like that, where our motives are totally corrupt and sinful.

01:36:56

Absolutely, Chris, and it's making man more compassionate and righteous than God.

01:37:02

And that is a tragedy. That is a blasphemous thought. I think that the person who rejects

01:37:12

Christ deserves it. That's their set mindset. That is their mindset.

01:37:18

But it's a sin against justice, holiness, God's will, and kindness.

01:37:25

Well, we are going to our final break right now. It's going to be briefer or more brief than the other breaks.

01:37:33

If you have any intention to submit a question to Roger Salter, please do so immediately, because we're rapidly running out of time.

01:37:40

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state and country of residence.

01:37:46

We'll be right back with Roger Salter after these messages don't go away. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

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01:49:27

Now, on the 4th and the 5th, I'm going to be preaching and both times it's going to be directed toward young people.

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Teenagers, those that are in their 20s and 30s, those who are singled and those who are married.

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01:51:06

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And we don't have the exact location yet or the topic on which Dr. White will speak, but if you keep listening to this program, you will be updated.

01:52:44

If you want to send me an email for me to put you on a list, well, you'll be notified. My email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

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chrisarnson at gmail .com. When, let me read a question from a listener,

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I'm sorry, Bobby in Hartsdale, New York. When we are considering the depravity of man, don't we need to make sure that we are not confusing our hearers who are foreign to this concept into thinking that men do not make choices of their own as if we are robots or as if we are forced to do the things we do by God against our will.

01:53:30

Are you there, Roger? Yes, I am, Chris. We forfeited our freedom and our native righteousness in our first parents.

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Adam was born with a free will. It was susceptible to a flawed decision as much as to willing obedience to God.

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We have forfeited the capacity to think righteously or in any way to the approval of God.

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We are not trusting in a fatalism or determinism, but the tragedy of our breach with God that has consequences.

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And the consequence is that, yes, we make free decisions, but because we are enslavement to sin and submission to the evil one, we're not capable of making good, righteous decisions.

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But we are responsible. We were given that responsibility and capacity at our creation.

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We have forfeited it. So I can't go into this in great detail at the moment because I wondered,

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Chris, can I, with great rapidity, just sum up something? Absolutely.

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Well, I think Scripture teems with testimony to the sovereignty and omnipotence of saving grace.

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And my suggestion is that people don't only get involved in controversy about it and reading both sides of the issue, but quietly, calmly, and with relying on Christ, consider portions of Scripture like John 6, verse 35 and following,

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Romans 9, Ephesians 1, which is the charter of heaven's policy of plenteous mercy toward the lost.

01:55:25

And then I wanted to close if it's, I've got a couple of minutes, Chris.

01:55:30

Yeah, sure. I think one of the most wonderful books available to believers is

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Leon Morris's The Cross in the New Testament. And on page 19, there's a quote from Leon and then a quote from H.

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H. Rowley, the Baptist Old Testament specialist, which I think is a good way of drawing this to a conclusion.

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But what makes grace omnipotent is the fact of regeneration. That's a greater act of God than the original creation.

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It is equivalent to the power of God that raised Jesus from the dead. It is a new creation.

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We're born from above. We don't cooperate with it in our earthliness and flesh. Ezekiel 36 speaks of God will give us a heart of flesh.

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Two Thessalonians, oh, I've got two Thessalonians here, Chris. We ought always to thank

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God for you. Why do we thank God for you if he's not the author of salvation? Brothers loved by the

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Lord. That's what caused the authorship of salvation. Because from the beginning, God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the spirit and belief of the truth.

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He called you to his through our gospel. I won't finish that because I just want to get in quickly and cut me off if it's necessary,

01:56:55

Chris. But here is Leon Morris, and then H .H. Rowley. Reference to the elect or to being chosen also point to God's saving act.

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Men do not elect or choose themselves. There is in the essential meaning of the words, the thought of the divine initiative.

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Unless God chooses to intervene and make some men his own, none will ever be saved.

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We know that at the point of our conversion. There is a tendency in some recent writing to minimize the significance of election.

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It is not surprising that in a man centered age, some writers put their emphasis on what men may be expected to do.

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They took the term may be retained, but it's meaning tortured out of all recognition. It must be insisted upon that the gospel speak of an election in which

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God not man is sovereign. And then H .H. Rowley, I've really come to appreciate him for his insight to Chris.

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He says H .H. Rowley reminds us that the doctrine of election would seem to be fundamental to the thought of the

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Bible in both old and New Testaments. That's the biblical doctrine of election by Rowley of church members in the

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New Testament. He says they were not men and women who chose to be Christians or who of their own initiative initiative decided to attach themselves to the church, but men and women on whom the constraint of God has been laid, who were chosen in Christ and redeemed by him, and who an individual loyalty had responded to that grace and pledged themselves without reserve to the obedience of the

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Lord. Sums up everything. Election, atonement, effectual call, perseverance.

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Amen! And you finished just in time because we're out of time. And if you want to find out more about Roger Salter and St.

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Matthew's Anglican Church in Birmingham, Alabama, rogersalter .com and Salter is spelled

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S -A -L -T -E -R without the P, rogersalter .com. Thank you so much, Roger, for always being an extraordinary guest.

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I love you dearly and I look forward to your return. I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who wrote in questions.

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I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.