April 10, 2018 Show with Justin Brierley on “Why After Ten Years of Talking With Atheists I’m Still a Christian”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with.

Your own questions. Now here's our host, Chris Arnson. Good afternoon, Cumberland County,.

Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity who are living on the planet Earth listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnson, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 10th day of April 2018, and today I am so delighted to have for the very first time as a guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Justin Brierley, who as many of you know hosts a radio program in the UK very popularly known as...

Well, Justin, it's great to have you back on. The fade out wasn't working on the music. I was trying to make it sound a little bit nicer and have it fade out, but it wasn't working. It was jammed. But anyway, well, Justin, it is great to finally have you on my program.

I had the pleasure of being on the unbelievable program, and I believe that was right before Reformation.

Day last year, correct? That's right, yes. It was great to have you on, Chris. It was a fascinating discussion. Oh, it was my honor and privilege, and please send my greetings to.

James Bogle, who was my counterpart in that discussion, which became a debate, and I enjoyed that very much, and I hope James is doing well, and please let him know that I send him my regards from this side of the pond.

I will do, I will do. And before I go into more of your story, let's talk more about me. I was just curious, I don't think I ever heard how you learned or.

Discovered Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Well, it was actually through a mutual friend of ours, James White, who I'm sure many of your listeners are familiar with as a well-known, known in terms of Indy, the fact that he's been a guest on my show many times, either debating with Muslims, or kind of on similar issues with other people, and so it was really through James White that I came to learn of your own radio.

People who could represent that story at one time, and James said, oh, perhaps you'd like to get in touch with me, and that was how we made the connection, really.

Great. Well, it was, as I said, it was an honor and privilege to be on your program, and tell us about, tell our listeners who are unfamiliar with Unbelievable, the radio program, tell us about this book.

I mean, well, it's a book as well, but tell us about the radio program.

And how that began and so on. Well, the Unbelievable radio show, and it's unbelievable, really began about when Premier Christian Radio has been a Christian radio station for 25 years now, and I joined it about 15 or 16 years ago, it was very late morning, and after a few years being in that role and getting stuck, I went to the manager of the radio to begin my own radio show, where we, and so Unbelievable was, I wanted to model what it began inviting.

Yes, when I was.

Invited on Unbelievable, I discovered a number of Americans who listen to your program and enjoy it very much, so that was interesting to discover as well, and I'm assuming Unbelievable would be because those who are not Christians believe that our claims, and the claims more specifically from the inerrant God-breathed scriptures, they believe that what we are proclaiming and teaching and.

Defending is unbelievable. Yeah, in a sense, I wanted the title to be a bit of a play on words, because on the other hand, I also kind of, you know, Unbelievable being unbelievably good, wonderful, and it's, you know, the magnitude of something.

The program title has worked quite nicely, because it is, and most of the program, an invitation to that together, and in the process,.

You know, it's been wonderful to see. Amen, and in fact, being from a theologically-reformed background, as you know, in one sense, you can say that much of the scriptures is unbelievable, and it requires a miraculous work of the Holy Spirit in order for a person dead in their trespasses and sins to actually see and believe the truth in it.

But before we even go further with our discussion on Unbelievable and your book, which we are going to be discussing today as well, I want to get, as I typically do with first-time guests, I want to get a little bit of your personal background, your religious upbringing, if any, what that involved, and what providential circumstances our Lord brought about in your life to draw you to himself and save you.

Well, I was fortunate to grow up in a Christian home. My parents were both at university, and they joined a, and my own, you know, really root to faith involved, as it does for I think many young people who are involved in church, through our youth group, a really wonderful, you know, that was all influential in my journey towards my own confession.

I'd say things really became real for me on that front, a youth retreat where I live, and there was just one evening where the changed in my heart. That change, I had, for some people, I know that they don't have that, but for me, to follow him.

And so from that moment on, really.

The Guest's Christian Background and Calling to Faith

Let me quickly give our listeners our email address. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question for Justin Brierley, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, c-h-r-i-s-a-r-n z-e-n at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA, and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter at chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

How would you describe yourself? I know that there are many Christians and many evangelicals that don't like labels. I know that labels can be obnoxious myself, but I think that they can also be helpful, but how would you describe yourself theologically and doctrinally as an evangelical Christian today?

Well, I suppose I'm a fan of sometimes what Lewis called mere Christianity, and so I agree that labels can be unhelpful sometimes. I would say that I, you know, Eric Reeds is a Christian, his death is resonant.

I wouldn't take that theological position.

I'm sorry, show's over, show's over.

But that's, you know, in a sense I particularly anti that position either, but having said that, you know, I don't, and I've learned a great deal. So for me, when of course I want to read a portion of the foreword by Alistair McGrath of your book,.

Unbelievable, Why After 10 Years of Talking with Atheists I'm Still a Christian. Alistair McGrath says of this book, in this book, Justin reflects on his experience in his conversations with both atheists and believers, offering a rich fare to his readers.

He covers a wide range of apologetic questions, always ensuring that the atheist or secularist perspective is fairly represented, while making sure his readers know that there are good answers that can be given.

This book will be a valuable resource for both those who want to think about their faith and those who want to develop their kinds of conversations themselves. As Justin makes clear, there are lots of problems with an atheist worldview, and unless we have serious yet respectful conversations with atheists, those problems will not be acknowledged.

As a former atheist myself, I now know how important it is for wavering atheists to find sensible and informed Christians who they can talk to about their growing doubts. I hope many wanting to have these kinds of conversations will find this book helpful and encouraging, and that's Alistair McGrath, who is probably very well known to many of our, if not most of our, listening audience here on Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio.

In fact, I've got to get Alistair on this program at some point. So this book that you have written, Unbelievable, is basically, I'm assuming, I don't know if it would be an exact transcript, a collection of transcripts, but a collection of conversations that you've experienced that are highlights of.

Your radio career with. Unbelievable. Am I right? Well, it certainly features a good deal of how I began it and sort of helping those who may be... Yeah, I'd like to go into some.

Examples specifically of answering objections by atheists and agnostics, but I want to take a couple of listener questions first. We have RJ in White Plains, New York, who says, I'm curious how you caught the radio bug and became a radio host yourself.

Great question. Well, I did a... People do end up going into some... I enjoyed that somewhat after having had that experience on these lines, in terms of my wife and I went away. I said, oh, I've just been on this radio.

It did make me think, okay, well... And so I sent an email, really, out of the blue when I returned, and they said, well, actually, we might have a little role. I did, and that... Well, thank you, RJ.

In White Plains, New York, you have won a free copy of.

Unbelievable. Why, after 10 years of talking with atheists, I'm still a Christian. By Justin Brierley. And we want to thank our friends at SPCK, Publishing Society for Proclaiming Christian Knowledge...

Promoting, I'm sorry, Society for Promoting Christian Knowledge. And that actually has quite a long history behind it, doesn't it, SPCK?

Oh, yes. It's a very long-standing... Yes, that's who actually shipped it to us. Those are the people who would have shipped it to you in the USA, but yes, it's because... Yeah. Yeah, I just, in fact, recently got another shipment, actually from England, from SPCK,.

With copies of a book for a guest who's returning to this program. And I can't remember if it was Michael Kruger or James Dolezal, but I don't know if either of those authors sound familiar to you from the catalog of SPCK.

I don't have the book right in front of me, but I just remember not long ago getting a shipment from them, and I'm looking forward to conducting those interviews. We have, all the way in Slovenia, a listener.

His name is Joe, and he says,. Dear Brothers Chris and Justin, thank you both for promoting evangelistic dialogue among the many worldview perspectives that greatly need a credible witness to the gospel of Jesus Christ.

My question is about conversation methodology. Have you heard of the book Question Evangelism by Randy Newman? Is that the guy that sang Short People, or is that somebody different? Randy Newman, in the presence, in it, I'm sorry, Randy Newman, in it, he presents what he sees as the main evangelism approach of Jesus, that of asking questions in response to questions, and asking questions in response to truth claims by objectors.

What do you think of this approach, and is it an accurate description of Christ's methodology, and if so, how might we benefit from it? There's a lot of questions in there, but they're all basically.

Around the same thing, about question evangelism. Yeah, I must admit, I haven't heard of the book, so I can only speak for it's correct, you know, when Jesus is asked, and I think that is interesting, because I think Jesus was always going to play that game, and I think he very cleverly, there is a great difference by question.

Well, I've tried to explain it. Well, thank you,.

Joe, in Slovenia, you have also won a free copy of the book, Unbelievable, by Justin Brierley, and thank you so much for providing an American address, where your daughter lives in Georgia, and we're going to have the cvbbs .com, sponsors of Iron Trip and Zion Radio, ship that book out to you, or out to your daughter, to your attention, as soon as possible.

Keep spreading the word about Iron Trip and Zion Radio in Slovenia and beyond, and we are going to our first break right now. If anybody else would like to join us, we do have a few of you still waiting to have your questions asked and answered, but if anybody would like to get in line, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away, we'll be right back with Justin Brierley.

And more of Unbelievable. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, Give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted. He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

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And by the way, speaking of unbelievable, well, it's not very unbelievable knowing how the technicological world is an annoyance as much as it is a blessing. If many of you are wondering what happened to the World Magazine ad that I was playing, well, it disappeared from the desktop of my computer, and it is vanished.

I have no idea what happened to it. The first time in years that this commercial has vanished. So we'll have to have somebody with more technicological knowledge than I have find out what happened to that ad.

But we are now back to our discussion with Justin Brierley. We are discussing not only his radio program, Unbelievable, but the book of the same title, and also his exchanges with those outside of the Christian faith over the years, or conversations that actually led to the birth of this book.

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. We have Bibi in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, who asks, isn't it true that at one time, Christian radio, if not all religious radio, was banned from the airwaves in the United Kingdom?

And it was only until fairly recently in history that the broadcasters were permitted to air religious content.

Well, that's a really interesting question, because there's a sense in which it's true that it's a relatively recent phenomenon. But now the reason that there was no, and so, and then of course you have...

Yeah, for 15 years, starting in 1991, I worked for WMCA Radio,.

Which is a major network within the Salem Media Network, the largest Christian network in the world. And I remember we had a visit from the general manager, I believe it was the first Christian radio station in London.

And he came to America and visited our station so he could learn some things about how a Christian radio functions, get some ideas, get some tips, and get some counsel, all that kind of thing. And when we were as a sales team, there to ask questions for him, or from him, he sat in our meeting room and was asking us all different kinds of questions.

I was shocked when I asked him, or when I said to him, I should say, I always wanted to visit London because I really, one day before I die, I hope to visit at least once the Metropolitan Tabernacle. And he said, pardon?

I said, you know, Metropolitan Tabernacle, where Charles Adams Spurgeon was the preacher. And he says, I'm not following you. He didn't know who Charles Spurgeon was, and he was from London. How is that possible as a Christian to live in London and not know who Charles Spurgeon was?

Well, that is a good question, Chris. Perhaps, in all honesty, you know, in a sense, our better known very often in the USA, I think, unfortunately, least valued by us in the UK, sadly. And the same goes for some of our classic, you know, Christian thinkers like C .S. Lewis, I think, you know, in a sense, as a guy, I must remember that individual.

Right, right. We're on the elephant in the castle, right?

Exactly. I mean, and very much, you know, many of those, I think we...

Well, before I return to any of our other listener questions, and by the way, B .B. in Cumberland County, please give us your full mailing address, because you have also won a free copy of the book, Unbelievable, by Justin Brierley, which will be shipped out to you, compliments of our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com.

I'd like to know, creating better conversations is a chapter heading in your book. And that, I think, is a very valuable aspect of the Christian life, because when many of us, and I include myself in this, are on a train, a bus, a plane, in a waiting room online somewhere, or even gathered amongst friends over a holiday meal, especially if they're unbelievers, I know that I far too often, and I'm sure many of our listeners would have to confess if they were honest, that far too often we just are silent, we're remaining to ourselves, or we're talking about things that have nothing to do with the gospel or scripture.

So how can we take advantage of these times when we do have opportunities to present the gospel by creating.

Better conversations? Well, it's a great question, and I think it does depend on the context, the environment you're in, in an online context. And the reality is, for a lot of people, it does take time to learn if we are going to engage in engaging like that.

They just need to stop, they don't know what to say. Well, believe it or not, I'm going to be revealing my age here,.

Because when I actually use the phrase, striking up conversations online, I did not mean that in the way that it is most often used today, I meant standing online, like to go into a movie theater. Yes, I could understand how being online, people are going to be more artificial, perhaps, not always, but they're very often not going to be revealing what they really truly believe, and they're not going to have tempered language, or they may be more prone to mockery, or vulgarity, or whatever the case may be, when you're anonymous somewhere, without a face and a voice, just behind a keyboard in a dark room.

But we are going to our first, or should I say, our midway break. This is a longer break than normal, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break between the two major segments of the show, so I hope that you're patient, and I hope that you take this time not only to write down the information that our advertisers provide, but also write questions for our guest, Justin Brierley.

And in fact, Justin, I am right now, since it's a rather lengthy question that I received from Ted in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, I am going to email this to you, so you, during the break, can have an opportunity to look it over, and be prepared for an answer when we come back from the break.

And if anybody else would like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com. Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence, if you live outside the USA, and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away, we'll be right back with more of Justin Brierley, and unbelievable, after these messages. Paul wrote to the church at Galatia,.

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And before we return to our discussion with Justin Brierley, just have a couple of announcements to make. The Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals is once again having the Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology.

It's being held in two locations, neither of which are Philadelphia. It is called the Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology out of tribute to the dearly beloved James Montgomery Boyce, who is now spending eternity with Christ.

He had these conferences at the 10th Presbyterian Church in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania for many years, and they carry on to this day but in different locations now. The first location will be from April 13th through the 15th coming up right around the corner at the First Christian Reform Church of Byron Center, Michigan.

And the second location will be April 27th through the 29th, where I intend to be, God willing, at the Proclamation Presbyterian Church in Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania, a lot closer to me and a lot closer to Pennsylvania, too.

The theme is the spirit of the age and the age of the spirit, and the speakers include Daniel Aiken, Richard Gaffin, Daniel Hyde, my favorite preacher of all time, Conrad M. Bayway, pastor of Kibwata Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, Africa.

By the way, Justin Brarley,.

Have you ever had Conrad M. Bayway on your program? I'm afraid I haven't, but he certainly.

Is someone I'd like to get on at some point. Yeah, because he travels through London, I believe, every year. But Richard Phillips is also one of the speakers, Jonathan Master, David Murray, and Scott Oliphant, David Murray being from Scotland and now teaching on the faculty at Puritan Reform Theological Seminary.

If you'd like to register for these conferences, go to alliancenet .org, alliancenet .org, click on events, and then click on the Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology, the spirit of the age and the age of the spirit.

Please tell the folks at the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals that you heard about the conferences they are orchestrating from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. And last but not least is the least comfortable or the most uncomfortable aspect of the program where I have to beg you for money.

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If you want to advertise with us just send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line. We would love to help you launch an ad campaign because we surely do need the advertising dollars.

As long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with the theology we express on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, we would love to have you join the advertising family. You don't have to believe identically to me.

As long as what you're promoting is compatible with what I believe, doesn't militate against what I believe, then we would love to have you join us as an advertiser. That's chrisarnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

That's also the email address to send in a question to our guest Justin Brierley of the Unbelievable Radio Program who's our guest today. That's chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com. Please give us your first name, your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. And Ted in Tuscaloosa, Alabama says as a longtime listener to Unbelievable I'd like to welcome along many. I'd like to welcome along Justin to Iron Sharpens Iron.

I suspect many listeners to this program are unaware that Justin is actually an egalitarian believer whose pastor is actually his wife. I also suspect that I've just triggered many an aortic aneurysm among those listeners with that revelation.

I'm wondering what Justin can tell us about his interactions with those from our camp, conservative, complementary, and reformed regarding his egalitarian stance. How obnoxious or on the other hand how winsome has our team been?

Have you ever had a guest decline participating in your program because of it? What is the best argument you have heard against egalitarianism? And if you could.

Respond to Ted in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. There you go you see not a calvinist and now an egalitarian. It's getting worse. It's uh I mean Ted is right and that is where I stand on the issue and he's I totally understand that for you and I imagine many listeners it doesn't come up because I'm not there and I purposely we do though obviously on the program I know more than not make up their mind and and eventually we did to you and I and allow people you know leave it to Ted in Tuscaloosa.