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He is out there.
Just so everyone is aware.
Just so everybody knows I am currently in the lead in the podcast championship 56 to 44, but if you're on Twitter and you have not Voted yet, then you are subject to church discipline. I'm gonna be calling on you later we'll check on that before the end and we'll see if it's if the needle has moved at all.
A Win is a win and 56 I'd like you to go a little wider. Give me a little bit more of a lead but anyway. So, hey guys we are going to finish up the conference with a time of questions and answers and One of the things that I Need to do it and maybe Jerry you can help me.
Can we get one of the wireless mics and you walk around and let people speak their question into the microphone? That would be that would be good. So the fun part of any Q &A is the opportunity where we get to do or the fun part of any conferences when we have the opportunity to do a Q &A and so brother Mike spoke on the Great Tribulation probably Presented a view that maybe some of you haven't heard and that is that the Great Tribulation has already taken place.
And.
Then I presented the amillennial view which may have been different than what some of you are used to or at least maybe what you grew up with and then brother Andy gave us a view of the eternal state focusing on the fact that the eternal state is the.
Is everyone will be there? It's going to be a you're either going to be glorifying God in the eternal bliss. Or hell, but it's the reality is it's eternal for everyone and it's a good reminder to us that there is no such thing as annihilationism and Soul sleep and all those things are.
I went to a funeral recently heard the term conditional morale and mortality. Conditional mortality, which is the idea that that if you don't live in Christ and live forever Then you're just going to stop existing and they call that conditional mortality but certainly not what the Bible teaches.
The Bible teaches that the Those who are in Christ will go into eternal felicity and those that are outside of Christ and to eternal judgment. So Just important important things for us to consider. All right so so now is your opportunity to ask questions to clarify and We'll do this for as long as you guys have questions and you know that we can go for a while.
So. So, well, let's see how long you guys can go. All right, mr. Jerry our Our drummer. Well, we'll have the the microphone. So hopefully at least a few of you have. No one handed me any written. Oh, I'm sorry.
We do have one written one. Do I start with that one?
Yeah, I don't have my phone on me. I do.
Well, we did get one. This is from miss Rosanna and she said a minor question for brother Mike and And. She said this the ones who killed the prophets how does adorning their tombs show they killed the prophets.
I Apologize if I misunderstood this when you spoke.
Passage.
Bring a little closer to you. Is this on? Yeah.
In Matthew 23, he is blasting the Scribes and the Pharisees for their hypocrisy and He's there. He says to them you adorn the tombs of the prophets you whitewashed them and you affirm that those prophets Your father's killed.
Which what Jesus is saying is hey you agree that you are the descendants of the very ones That killed the prophets. Well, we don't have all the names of every prophet that was under the Old Covenant. But we do know just specifically we had the ones that were killed by Jezebel and and other other Diabolical kings such as Manasseh.
Zedekiah had a man of God killed as well. He'll He'll Akai. I think's his name. He was killed and he was on his way to kill Jeremiah and Jeremiah was whisked away. So we know that those men Were the descendant were the descendants of those men.
So when Jesus says you have even agreed that it was your fathers that killed them And now you're gonna kill me. Because that was their intent if you remember at the beginning of that That whole week which we would call passion week that their whole intent was to trap Jesus to find him in some type of wrongdoing so that it said they couldn't kill him.
They'd said it very plainly That doesn't answer her question. She'll let me know tomorrow. Yeah, what's in Adelaide?
I don't want to try to kill all the royal seed to write Adelaide. She tried to kill all the royal seed, right? So I noticed. Not prophets but at the same time it's the principle is the same of evil trying to overcome good.
And there's song. All right now we can move to another question. I don't have anything to add to that brother Andy. All right, John has a question.
Until I make your enemies your footstool Implies to me. The return comes after the enemies are a footstool. How do you? How do you see it? Because it seemed like you were saying it's Christ that makes the enemies.
This is one of the distinctions between Amillennialism and post-millennialism in how I said that they were very similar and they are very similar. But Kim riddle Barger makes this Makes this distinction.
He said do we see Christ coming to a saved world or we do we see Christ coming to save the world? Right, and so we have to consider all of these things in light of how we understand that that that ending eschatological moment and We see Christ in Revelation 19 coming to conquer and we see him coming with the sword of his word coming out of his mouth.
And we see that that happening in the midst of his return. So when it says until you know, we made your enemies your footstool I I think there is that I think Christ is involved in that I don't think that that's something that we do ushering in his return.
I think that's part of his return and maybe the brothers see it slightly different but I don't I don't see I don't see it as a necessary thing that the that the church has to Be victorious to the point that all of Christ's enemies are vanquished before he can return and I know that's sort of the post-millennial Scheme and and and again, it's a great one.
I And it does tend towards certain Activities on earth you tend to find within post-millennialism more activism more more Attempts to make changes here because the idea is Christ is going to overcome in culture.
He's going to overcome in art. He's going to overcome in science. He's going to overcome in media. He's going to overcome in these areas and and then then you have the careful mixture of I don't if you've ever heard of seven Mountains theology, which is a which is actually a health and wealth Theology of this idea that there's seven mountains to conquer media government.
You know all of these areas and and and sometimes post-millennialism can have a little bit of Overlap with that where it's like well, we're overcoming in these areas. And so This is where I I'm an optimistic Amillennialist I do see the church having victory.
The Bible talks about the church being like a mustard seed that Grows into a great tree or the little leaven that leavens the whole lump, right? So, I don't I don't have a problem with seeing gospel victory gospel success, but as I said in my my conversation with Doug Wilson I still think the wheat and tares have to be considered and that the the the destruction or the Sifting and sit and sorting of the wheat and the tares doesn't happen until judgment.
And so that would be my.
Well, I mean we don't talk about this before.
In.
You had asked about someone 10 and I would take it almost a sense that the enemies were put on the his footstool after the cross. In part the Christ conquered death and the devil and Destroyed the works of the devil.
And yet there is that ultimate fulfillment, which I believe will take place at that final day. Which is again the last breath of this heavens and earth. And then that takes place and then there's the first breath if you will of the new heavens in the world.
So I can make in my understanding. That's the way I understand it at this point that that's what he means when he says sit in my right hand. So I make your enemies on the footstool. I.
Would see it when he just said it positionally at Christ's death burial resurrection exaltation and enthronement. Positionally his enemies are under his feet, but the consummation of that day is coming when he will actually put his boot.
And then and I know where the hang up there is at the until right but. So he's going to do this until he's gonna he's gonna sit at his right hand until He puts his enemies under his feet and the question is well, how does he put his enemies under his feet?
Well, his feet are there doing it so that that would be where we would say that I brother.
Yes, sir, nowhere is that. So that's the question.
Yeah.
Nowhere in Scripture. Search it up high low far and wide. Will you find anything? That says there's a seven years of tribulation to take place. That is an assertion by a Dispensational Eschatological view that is relatively new in church history only about 200 years old.
It.
Primarily started with the by a writing by the man of Manuel Locanzo which probably nobody in this room with the exception of maybe two people have heard of and It began with him. He was a Jesuit priest and an apologetic to Show that the Pope was not a type or the Antichrist said that all of Revelation.
Was.
Future not yet fulfilled up until that point the book of Revelation had been viewed as the historicist view by all the Reformers. Well then Because of that that book that was written which was the coming of the Messiah in power and glory that was written in 1791.
Then by the writing of that book you would have men like Edward Irving that would come along. Who would then begin to see the future of everything with? Revelation Parts of the Olivet Discourse and then that idea begins to develop that everything is in the future.
They then import that back into Daniel 70 weeks, which is actually Daniel 77. But they use it as 70 weeks because they say The weeks means years. So if you have a three and a half Week, what is that? Me three and a half years, correct?
Well, they Separate the Great Tribulation as being the last three and a half years, but it says there is tribulation in Chapter 24 of Matthew, I think it's around 21 where it says you will be in tribulation.
So you see they've made a distinction Where the Bible hasn't they've said tribulation great tribulation and it's all an assertion. Every bit of it. I know what but many have been taught Dispensational eschatology and it's always Bothersome to me that when the lost and dying unregenerate world embraces quote the The eschatological view of the vast majority of the church that we're probably wrong.
I.
Mean.
I'm sure I mean, it's obvious. I think that dispensational eschatology is wrong. I do I think it's. It's not heretical. But it's wrong, but that's where it comes from. It comes from that view making the distinction between Three and a half years.
If somebody was to just say hey, it was the Tribulation was three and a half years. They would have a better argument for that. Well, I think you all would agree with that as well.
67 to 70.
Future.
There's no place that says seven. You're correct. It's always based on three and a half years in Revelation in 42 months.
Yeah 1260 day 42 months. Yeah, and then they have to make a distinction between tribulation and the truth the Saints of the Great Tribulation, which I think said Revelation 7 14 7 15 somewhere around there, but that's where it comes from.
String of pearls.
Yeah, absolutely. I recently heard a distance age because I was preparing for my debate with Spencer Smith and I was listening to a lot of Dispensationalist just to sort of wrap my head around what they teach and I can't tell you how many of them said.
You won't understand this until you understand Daniel. 70th week. So where did the seven years come from just what Mike has said? It's that that they're there. They're taking a Concept from Daniel. They're saying here's the seven years and they're making that their standard for what the last Tribulation time is it's that 70th week which apparently.
Has a huge gap. Yeah, but when we get to Daniel in our Sunday school study You will see that. If that be the case then Daniel's.
77s.
Prophecy the gap between that time is longer than the whole prophecy. Hmm. It'd be like me saying Who's a who's the kindest gentlest person in here?
My wife, okay.
It'd be like me asking this candy hey, I need you to take me to my aunt's house. And she said where is it like it's only about 10 miles from here. Well, we get in the car and we go about 10 miles and she says Mike how much longer?
Oh, we know. It's just this a little while longer, you know, we we drive another 15 miles and she said Mike you told me it was only 10 miles. Oh. Yeah, it's actually 10 miles but between mile 9 and 10, there's 15 mile difference.
Yeah. If you can grasp and I hope to do that in Sunday school and you can see that the 77s for you prophecy of Daniel was fulfilled in Jesus's first coming. Hey the rest of dispensational Esca eschatology crumbles like a deck of cards.
You will see that. This idea of a Treaty with an Antichrist That's nowhere in the Bible. You know that it's nowhere. It's nowhere even alluded to. You have to import that idea into something else to try to make that system work and it all comes from a System that tries to put everything in the future.
No, I mean it just It's based on a presupposition and again, that's the danger of Not allowing the scriptures in their context to speak for themselves. It's same thing like you said brother Keith about the thousand year Revelation 21st 1 through 6.
Was it in the Bible? But we wouldn't even have that as a subject wouldn't have a conversation. Yeah, because it's one again. You're taking you're taking this little thing and you're trying to make it the premise for your whole system.
He's right I'm sorry.
From our eyes. How do you understand that is there a tear there and for what reason. This one might we may we may all have an opinion on this one. Yeah, I.
Would guess I would say that I'm not so sure that What's being said is when we get there? That any tears that we would have would be taken away. I Understand that that there would be no reason to have tears.
That that all that would cause. What's interesting is it says not only does he wipe away the tears, but he works wipes away crying. If you look at the way, it's worded and I think that's interesting because how do you define the difference between tears and crying?
And I think you could find a way to define it. So I'm saying for now that the tears that will be wiped away would be anything That causes us sadness. Sorrow pain those things will be taken out of the way again because there's no more curse.
No more judgment. No more struggle. I don't know if I've answered your question, or I just blow the aided for about 45 seconds.
Know what the Somewhat Somewhat common answer is and maybe this is why the question there's there's a common understanding that When we get to heaven We're gonna realize who isn't there and it's gonna bring tears and then God's gonna wipe away our memory of those people.
I've heard that is that's what the wiping the tears are and I don't think that that's correct. But I have heard that and if you've not ever heard that view that I mean that was pretty popular for a while.
Many teachers say God's gonna wipe away your memory of everybody who's not there. I prefer Sproul's position which was actually the position of his his mentor which was John Gerstner and John Gerstner said, you know, you'll be able to see and know and and Understand the judgment of God to the point where you'll recognize justice and it won't be to you.
Something that is is a bad thing at that point we can't understand all that now because we're still Bound in this temporary, you know body of flesh that doesn't understand everything but then then we will.
So I don't think I don't think it's a memory wipe. I don't think we get a defrag hard drive and start over because at that point it becomes the question of what's this world all About. Is it possible there that God alleviates?
Memories I guess so it's just not something that I think is necessary. I think God could do it another way, but that is kind of what you were asking, right? That is that that's what you've heard and I remember us talking about that years ago.
So maybe that's helpful. Yeah.
I mean that kind of goes along with the judgment and the curse though because again what brings that kind of thinking but a Judgment and a curse. Yeah, and if that's out of the way and that's why I said that I don't think we could fully comprehend Even at best of how it's described to us what the eternal state is until we're in the eternal state and so again, I'm a little hesitant about trying to Drill down on all those things too much In this world.
Certainly, it's the wiping away the tears and no more crying is connected to the final judgment. I'm not looking forward to that day. We have loved ones That we will see God cast them into the lake of fire.
I Look forward to the day When he does wipe that tear away from me, I will also see on that day Where things that I did and thought was in good motive will be burned up with Like wood, hay and stubble That will bring tears to my eyes.
But in that in that day we will see God's justice put on full display. We will see our unsaved loved ones pushed into the lake of fire and I believe that God is gonna remove those tears and He has to in some way Remove that memory From so I'm not how all that's gonna work out.
I can't imagine for all of eternity the last thing we see of our loved ones that are pushed into eternal Condemnation that that memory goes on with us forever. Certainly God could do that and it could be He could change our mind in such a way that that's a glorious Representation of his holiness.
I don't know but I think there's something to the that God has to do to the mind and the psyche.
That.
Removes every remnants of sin and hurt. I don't know that answers.
Your question unless it in one of the ways he could do that would be we could be so overcome With joy of being in the presence of a holy God That those things that would cause tears They just kind of disappear in and of themselves because we're so overcome With the glory the majesty the holiness the righteousness the judgment of God.
I mean, that's why I say The eternal state is something yet To be understood. I'm not saying we shouldn't try to understand it. I think we got to be careful not to try to be Too finite in our in our thinking.
Agree with that. Wholeheartedly, but there has to be something a part of that to go no matter How right it is for God to do what he has done. It doesn't alleviate the pain and hurt. So God has to do something.
In that moment what he's gonna do I don't know but now I can't wait for him to reach for them nail-scarred hands and just take them tears and just I. Look forward to that.
We've all heard really bad examples of people's personal beliefs of after their loved ones have passed. Well, they're in a better place. Even though in life, they wanted nothing to do with the Lord and we're very opposed to the things of God.
Is there I say, how would you Address something like that. Would you just kind of not say anything? Depending on the situation or the timing of the person's loved ones passing or things like that. Or is there a way to lovingly speak the truth and speak the gospel? in a situation like that.
If you don't mind I'll go first because I I've had to do this so many times in funerals. And there have been Several times but one I remember in particularly where I was preaching at a funeral and one of the family members got up Went to the back and I heard some commotion.
Come to find out after the funeral was over field director came up to me and he said They wanted you to stop. This guy did he said that man didn't believe that. What he's preaching was not what that man believed and I said, well he believes it now.
And I didn't say it to him I said it to the funeral director, but I but in that moment what I what I do at funerals is in general, I Especially if I don't know the the condition of the lost person and most of the time I don't.
I've done over 150 funerals for people. I've never met and for families. I only met once that's at the funeral. And so I talked about their life, you know, I see this person was a good worker, you know, father husband, whatever and Then I give the gospel and I give a very clear gospel presentation that says only those who believe in Christ.
Because I always preach John 14 1 through 6. I'm gonna do it again on Tuesday. It's the same verse as Jesus said I Prepare a place for you, you know all these things but then he says no one comes to the father except through me and so when I'm Interacting with someone who's lost a loved one and they're all he's in a better place or whatever.
I don't always automatically just argue with them but I do point to the fact that There is only one way that he's in a better place and that's if he knew Christ. There is no there is no purgatory. There is no middle ground.
There are those who know Christ and there are those who don't and So I have the unique opportunity to preach in that situation. So I don't have to have a dialogue. It's a monologue and I get to say only those who trust in Christ have Eternal life with him and everyone else Doesn't.
In a conversation with someone that may be a little bit more difficult. But you can still point to that truth the gospel truth. You know I know that several times when I've been in conversations with people here if I say well this person died the very first thing They asked is did they know the Lord because we know what we're asking.
When we ask that question and so that could be a way That and maybe wording it slightly differently, but you know when someone says well, hey, well, he's in a better place. Maybe just say well, did he know the Lord?
Because what you're saying in that response is you're saying did he because that's how we know. If he's in the quote-unquote better place and if they say well, I don't know. Well, you know, maybe we should ask his maybe.
You know, that's it at least broaches the subject. By by addressing it that way because that's the that's the the demarcation point. You're either in Christ or in Adam.
Think in a conversation kind of way that we You know There's a lot of scriptures that say Let your speech be with grace and season with salt that you may not answer every man I ask you about the hope the account of the hope that's in you powers it says a word fitly spoken is like apples of gold and pitches of silver and I do think I Do think that there are times where we don't necessarily have to Admonish that there is a time as In clues as it's a time for everything.
I wouldn't want to leave it alone. But it depends. I think it depends someone on the relationship like if I'm gonna go to see this person once. And it might change the way I respond versus if I'm gonna see them.
It's almost to me like how do we deal with our own kids? And I'm just not just young kids but kids as they get older that have been brought up in a Christian environment, and they still don't believe and you're seeking to be a testimony and an example before and you really Can go wrong if every three seconds you quote the scripture out of right?
I think that we can almost provoke them to wrath that way. But it's really what it's it's looking for that opportunity. To have an impact and then to trust the Spirit of God to work. So again, I'm not trying to skirt the issue at all Rachel that we shouldn't respond with truth.
We should always respond with truth, but I do think there's there's a bit of wisdom that we could use. Which I can personally say I did not have and I probably still don't have but I didn't have it when I first came to Christ.
I would blast and I was shooting cannonballs at anybody and everybody.
But I'd kick everybody in the teeth. Yeah, sure. Yeah, we learned that it's over time for sure.
Certainly in the moment of grief is not the time to tell a person. But they do need to know that men are not justified by death alone.
Hmm.
Everybody that dies doesn't go to heaven. Men are justified by faith alone in Christ alone. Speaking to someone I've been asked hey, where's Where's my brother? Where's my sister? Where's? And if I don't know that person it's easier.
Honestly, it's easier if you don't. Because you can do like Keith said well did that person know the Lord? And then they say well, I don't know. Well if they didn't. Understand and believe and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ in this manner you go through the gospel.
But in the time of grief, that's not the thing to say. Those conversations can come later down the road if you're dealing with a family member that you can talk.
Because otherwise seems almost like a personal attack. Yeah, and so if you can do it in a in a way of question, like you just said then it's not as. Mono a mono and people feel like you're coming after them in it in a sad state.
Yeah, even people that are.
Orthodox solid Bible-believing Christians in that moment of grief will be asked the question knowing that that person was unsaved. Where are they? Where are they? Some of that is the actual shock factor of where that person is and then the other part is.
Well, did they you know at all? It always comes to well, you don't know what happened in that unconscious state of their mind. Yeah, we do nothing. Unconscious state so yeah. Never anybody ever goes to a hospital visit.
Somebody has died. Don't try not to get into that conversation at that moment of grief. There's there's a time to be quiet as he said there the problem. Apples of gold can be good.
Time to speak in a time to be silent. Yeah, and that's good. I tell you what, if I if you ever take a one of us teaches a how to do a hospital visit class. And you want to take it. The first thing is learn when to not talk.
Just learn when to sit because we all want to feel silence with awkward platitudes.
And that's usually where things go south real quick. Oh, she get ready. I just thought she did.
Mike is not working right now.
Over the years or whatever. You guys are all.
Very.
Educated in the word and these people are all very educated in the word and it's like how. Not educated in a lot of. Outside of the Bible. I mean, I know a lot of things that you study. It's based on the Bible for sure.
But I mean, it's like how do you know? If you're just looking at the Bible only I'm not looking at what man is saying or any books or creeds or whatever. Man has come together and determined. This is what we believe this says.
I'm just looking at the Bible and I'm relying on the Holy Spirit living in me to teach me. How do I know? Who's right, how do I know what's literal what scriptures to be taken? I mean because the Bible doesn't say, you know, this is the book of Revelation and it's is that her mic.
Your mic, I don't know. Start muting one of them. I'm sorry Janice.
Literally, this is really.
Oh.
Sure, I got excited I said I have to answer this one. Hey, this is this is this is my this is this is something I'm very passionate about.
A lot of the scriptures they use it seems to be saying exactly what they're saying, you know, and then a Lot of things are this is what somebody else said or or like the 70 AD. I mean How do you know that revelation.
For sure that revelation was written before that. You know, it's not for sure so it's just very confusing to me to know. Because you have educated people on both sides sure.
Just listen to Keith simple.
What'd you say.
Yeah, I trust my interpretation. No, I do I I do think that there are objective answers to your question and I and I I was I was Anticipant like I'm like I want to answer not because I'm I'm want to be an aggressive bulldog.
But because the you you asked three questions really that all are very important. You asked about the literal literal interpretation of the scripture, which I want to speak to. You asked about how do you know you're right?
You know when? And then you asked about trusting in men. So I want to I want to address those and again, I certainly my brothers will say something as well. But I want to speak very quickly to a couple of them or to all of them.
First of all We are the first generation.
Well, we're not the first generation.
We are among the first generations of Christians who felt such a disconnect from history and Felt like it was really just supposed to be us the Bible and the Holy Spirit. Like we were to interpret everything on sort of this island mentality.
It's me and my Bible and Jesus right and I don't need any man to tell me that I don't need history. I don't need these things because it's just me the Bible and Holy Spirit that the Bible has always been in Community it's always been a part of this larger grand tradition.
We stand with great so great a cloud of witnesses the scripture says and to divorce ourself from that is exactly. What for instance the independent Baptist Church? I just did an interview the other night with three independent Baptist pastors.
Every one of them told me I don't care anything about church history. I don't know anything about church history. And then when I started challenging them on doctrine and asking them questions, they they fold.
They might get mad if I say that they literally some of the things I asked them were rudimentary questions, and it was like They they what do you think about Athanasius? Do you think he was part of the church?
Those those types of things we are the first it really is a very American individualism that says It's just me my Bible and the Holy Spirit. I don't need to think about what the church has said about this for the past 2 ,000 years.
That's that that so that's one idea that I think is very American and it's not right. That we should divorce ourselves from the history of the church that we shouldn't care what those who said before us thought.
Because honestly if I said to you the formulation of the doctrine of the Trinity is Is certain God is one in essence God is three in person. These three persons are co-equal co-eternal distinct and that's how the church has understood the doctrine of the Trinity for 1 ,700 years and that is how the church should continue to understand that doctrine that Should be understood in light of the fact that All of that is in Scripture.
But the Jehovah Witnesses look at the scripture and they say nah. No, it's not. The Jehovah Witness will say that's not in the Bible because they take their Bible and they mishandle it how can we determine they've mishandled it because the church has spoken with a 2 ,000 year old voice and said yes, this is exactly what the Bible says.
So when you say different you're showing yourself to be a heretic. You see you see why the the community's voice of the church speaks on these matters. That's why that the history does matter and when we say it's just me my Bible in the Holy Spirit.
We are divorcing ourselves from Christ gave us the church. The church matters and the history of the church matters this is why I don't believe in trail of blood theology, which is this idea that the What the true church has been this this side group then the mainline church has always been wrong and it's always been this side group that was the true church and they've it's Always been this person with his Bible off to the side doing his own thing.
No, the God has spoken by his people through his church and and has the church been corrupted? Yes, have there been times where Reformation and restoration has needed? Yes. But that doesn't mean that we look to history and we say we don't need it.
I know that's what you're saying. Janice I'm just saying if somebody is saying this this would be my passionate response. You cannot do that. You cannot divorce yourself from history. So that's number one.
Number two, and I don't mean to be.
If he finishes.
No, no, no, you're you ask an important question. Second thing is in regard to. You asked about well, that was sort of the answer to the writing of men, you know, what why do we care? How do we know about 8070 and why do we think that that matters?
Well, we know that it matters historically because even everybody understands that this is what happened. I mean this this is not something that was made up. I never heard about it when I was in dispensational seminary.
Nobody ever mentioned 8070 because they didn't think it mattered. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. They just didn't think it mattered. But when we look at it from a historical perspective, certainly it matters.
It has to matter. I mean it has to you step back and you say okay this matters now when Revelation is written is debated. But that doesn't change Mike's sermon. Because there's no doubt that Matthew Mark and Luke are all written before 8070.
There's no doubt that the synoptic Gospels all of which contain the Olivet Discourse are all written before 8070. We have evidence. Absolute evidence that we're looking at mid 50 writings up into the 60s.
No way the Gospels are not written before 8070. So everything Mike said last night certainly could be fulfilled in 8070. Revelation there is some evidence that is written after 8070. I still hold that it was written before but that wouldn't change anything Mike said.
So that really is not an issue for how we understand the Olivet Discourse. It only matters for how we would understand certain portions of Revelation. Does that make sense?
What could be. What did I say could be no, no, no what. What did I say could be no.
I said I said Matthew Mark and Luke certainly were written before 8070. Revelation could be after but that's but that's none of us really taught Revelation.
No, okay.
No, no, but but 8070. Is it. What I'm pointing to is Mike preached Matthew 25. I'm sorry 24 and and Mark 13, right? What I'm saying is those are written before 8070.
You're talking about you're talking about the scholar. Other scholars.
Yeah, I'll be quick I Do think I don't say what you're saying that how can you make that distinction? When you have both sides present a. What they would say is a valuable and valued argument. And and my answer to that would be that Every man needs to be convicted in their own mind.
And then we trust the Lord. I mean when I first became a Christian, I thought the Chinese were coming over the mountain on horses, too. I mean I and I read material on that especially from Dallas seminary which was the prominent seminary at that point and They're teaching on eschatology and then times was like you couldn't argue with them because those were the big boys.
Right, but and so I swallowed that bait took it and it was there's an amount of time That has to enter into it to in other words. Do you really do we really think I know I said I was gonna be short. Do we really think the Bible was written so that somebody could like get it all down over over a weekend?
It's not a limited. It takes time and so I do think there has to be an ability on our part to be patient. To make a discernment to be humble enough to ask God if my discernment is wrong. To change me and and again just because we ask God to give us the right understanding.
It doesn't mean God's gonna just send a postcard, right? And so we wrestled through a lot of things. I think it was like this and then I'll be quiet. How do we know that Abraham Lincoln really lived? I Mean, oh we have pictures, but let's just go back before there was the ability to have a picture or something like that to just pick a character and We don't always argue about that historical character, right?
But we really don't have any more information on that Than what other people have passed on. Right now you were saying there's a value to history. That we depend on right and so again I do think that there's needs to be patience because what's the scripture 1st John 4 27, right?
We don't need anyone else to teach us to spirit the anointing that we have teaches us all things, but I don't think that that's Meaning don't listen anybody else. Because otherwise why preach? What why would we need preaching?
Why will we need teaching? Why would we have Bible study? Why would we have Sunday school just sit at home away for God to drop it out of the heavens?
So I'm sorry for taking so much time first. You're dealing with anything prophetic. There's something that's foretold. The only place to look for that is history to see if it's fulfilled. So once we can look at like in Jesus's case this really had to do when you talk about all of it discourse is Jesus words real did he really?
Prophesy that the Destruction of Jerusalem was coming. Did he really answer those three questions? To his disciples and if he did then that and they happened just as he says then that is once again Showing the world that Jesus was a prophet and he was the Son of God now When you're Say you have this man saying this thing who is a scholar and I agree with you and you have this man who says he Was a scholar and or is a scholar and this is the conclusion that he come.
I've had the benefit I'm better than anybody. I'm not saying I'm better anybody at all. But I had the benefit of not being schooled in a seminary that Tried to teach me a certain brand of soteriology eschatology or ecclesiology, I Remember as two years old in the Lord, I can tell you who I was listening to riding down the road.
It was David Jeremiah. I think he's a godly man and He said, oh see it's right here. He was in the book of Daniel and he said oh, it's right here and he read the verse and he says it's right here. It's in Daniel chapter 9 verses 24 through 27.
He says it's right here it says right here that the Antichrist will make a treaty with the nation of Israel and I about had a seizure. I Don't say that So fast as I could get home that afternoon, that's when you had to order him on tape.
He ordered it on tape get it listening to it. I'm going everything. He just said not what that said. So then I had to go. Well, how did he come to that conclusion? So I went to this her current pastor.
I was going said hey, man, how do we what is this? And he said The words that sent me on the quest to never take a pastor's word for nothing. This is just what we believe. Well, why do we believe that?
Well, no, this is just what we were what we were taught and I went well. So you just took the guy that told you before this and said that that's that's true. He said yeah, I have no reason to not trust him.
I'm like, well, he said that says this you show me. Does it say that? He said it doesn't say that but this is just what we believe and I'm done talking about it. So I was like, well, I guess I'm gonna have to start looking for answers on this on my own.
So then I begin to look on other other Commentaries on how did this person come to that start looking at these? I'm like man. This is really weird. This really doesn't add up. Then I came across The actual terminology of that system and then once I saw that system and I studied that system the system dictates how they come to those conclusions and anybody that's been in any type of Dispensational school knows if you don't have that system, you don't come to those conclusions.
If.
My understanding of Revelation is.
Is.
Consistent with Daniel's Chapter chapter 9 chapter parts of 10 11 and 12 then that means revelation. Being consistent with the Olivet discourse is dealing with the destruction of Jerusalem primarily. So if I'm going to be a consistent theologian, I Have to say these are all connected.
Therefore they're all talking about things that are prophesying the same thing. Then I have to come to the conclusion. These are all talking about the same event. That's not what they do. They're all sporadic and all over the place.
Well, this is that double fulfillment or this has got to be taken literally but not this so I try to use a consistent hermeneutic which leads me to a consistent interpretation in hopes and it Answers the most questions that I have had and it leaves the least amount of problems and anybody in here that wants to do any Type of biblical interpretation that is the goal is to answer as many questions as you prop possibly can from the text and leave the least amount of problems and You can do that.
I'm not saying not leave any problems, especially when you're talking about eschatological things. You're gonna have problems. Because there are things that we some of it. We're just not sure but we leave going.
Okay, I've answered the most questions and I can step back and not every time go which is what was the consistent pattern the churches that had been to.
And those even.
Seminary professors look I I pointed a church with a guy that was a vice president of the seminary. He taught preaching he had a Doctorate degree in rhetoric and communication and was the executive pastor at the third largest Baptist Church in Florida.
And He's the consistent pattern was to step back and say well, that's just a mystery. We don't know. That doesn't work for me. If y 'all came to me and every time you asked me a question that was difficult.
So that's just a mystery of God. Would you get frustrated? Wouldn't you? Yes, because not everything's a mystery. God gave us a book. It's not a riddle it interprets itself and it gives us a way of understanding him in a way that can be Articulated to edify and to equip the Saints.
That didn't answer your question. I will try to do it again. I.
Don't I want to add one other thing to if I sounded somewhat like I was Argumentative I wasn't I just I this is what you're asking is very important and I did say in my sermon that There are disagreements on these things and there is room for for that and I think we all agree with that.
But you did you mentioned literal interpretation? That is another thing that Oftentimes the position that I take with all millennialism. I've been you know, well, that's We take it literally and you're taking it Figuratively or allegorically and that's that's not technically accurate.
Literal and this is and this I know we got to get to our lot, you know, we got to finish up literal is Is not always what we think it is. And this is why when somebody says do you take the Bible literally?
I Say no. And people you don't take the Bible literally. I say no. I take the Bible literarily and most of you've heard me say this what that means is you interpret every passage according to the Interpret historical narrative with historical narrative you interpret prophetic utterance.
According to the rules of prophetic utterance. All of these things have rules and that's how it's to be interpreted. So I I don't I feel like that's almost like a bait Tactic not from you but from my dispensational friends who argue well you we take the Bible literally.
I say no you take the Bible literally when you want to because as soon as you turn those locusts into Apache helicopters. You're no longer taking the Bible literally. So so that's.
When I say they it's those who say we take it literally the thing is you take it allegorically no. There is symbolism in apocalyptic literature. You have to interpret Apocalyptic literature by its symbols.
I can't he just said it earlier, you know. He talked about Godzilla coming up out of the water in Revelation the dragon or great example. Okay, do we really believe that this Godzilla figure is going to come up out of the Mediterranean?
I hope so. Yeah, no, it's speaking because at the same time you have a beast that comes out of the land, too. So now you got two beasts. Okay, so we go. All right. This is apocalyptic literature. What is it trying to convey?
I Wish that we would had in Revelation the things that we have in Daniel when Daniel goes. Hey, check it out. The angel that came can you tell me what that was? He tells Daniel what it is, but we don't get that in in Revelation but what we can do is look at that trajectory and motif that is set in Daniel which is what I have done and have learned to look at other men that have done that the motif and trajectory and prophetic Telescoping that is set forth in Daniel helps me interpret the very things that Revelation says because he is saying a lot of the same thing you have a beast that comes up out of the out of the water and It has ten head ten horns.
Okay.
If we see ten horns one one of those horns is is then rises itself up and speaks pompous things against the Word of God. Where else do we see that we see that in in the book of Daniel? We see this conglomerate beast that has bear like qualities lion like qualities and teeth like iron.
Where else do we see that that's in the book of Revelation? Where else do we see that? We see that in the book of Daniel. So we have and where do we see these other prophetic images in Revelation? We see them in Jeremiah.
So before we go to Revelation just look at its what it's saying. We better understand what God has already revealed in the Old Testament to other apocalyptic literature. Conveying something that's to come in the future as well because we can use that as the analogous of Scripture using Scripture to interpret Scripture.
At least if somebody in here we come to those conclusions in Daniel and eventually when I Get to Revelation you get to the end if we disagree at least don't want you to leave going. I didn't know what he was talking about.
I'm fine if someone disagrees with me, but I want you to at least at least if you do disagree with me. Understand what I was saying so that you don't leave and misrepresent. Telling somebody else something that I said that really wasn't what I said.
That's all. I'm totally not fine with people disagreeing.
I'm gonna stay and argue. We're about out of time, is there anybody else who has an important question, okay right here and.
Well.
And we're gonna close. I saw so we have we'll do these last two and then we are gonna close with a song. Because it's important and you'll see why in a moment that.
So on the the unbinding at the end of the thousand-year reign this one's for me from a from the post-millennial and the Omelette old standpoint, how does that look? And if we believe that the binding is the Holy Ghost doing it by the proclamation of the gospel Then what happens.
Does the gospel cease being proclaimed.
Don't think the gospel ceases to be proclaimed. What I think is we see happening is Satan is if you think about what he's being restrained from and I think I Tried to make the case that he's being restrained from bringing the nations against God and his church against Christ Church, right?
And so I think when that's what we will see is we will see this this unity of Attack against Christ's Church, and so that's what if you want to say what I think is gonna happen when Satan is unbound. You know think about the United Nations for a moment.
What are you the United Nations always trying to do something crazy? But it seems like they're always not able they can't ever get there. They can't ever get their act together. You know, it's always but at some point if there is a united attack against Christ Church I think we start looking up that's that's.
That would be my sick because that's what you're asking, right? What are we looking for? What do we think is gonna happen because some people think Satan's unbound now. Maybe he got unbound in 2020 when kovat hit that was the unbinding of Satan.
I don't think a Wuhan virus created the unbinding of Satan but. But people are like what what's that gonna look like? The the the nation's coming against Christ and his church in force, I think that that would be my way of understanding it.
No, I'm good with that. I just I guess I was just thinking yeah, I have this weird thought that we almost foretell our own future. Like in other words, I remember when Dick Tracy on his and I've said this before Dick Tracy.
We're talking to his. Watch and call Joe Jitsu. You don't have any idea what I'm talking about Steven.
I'm even out on that one.
Older people we don't okay. There you go. And then all of a sudden guess what we do with an Apple watch. We talked to it in a response. I Think that way it will displace. I almost think we're like Hunger Games Where there's gonna be centralized if you will kind of government kind of thing and then there's factions.
So I think we almost are by God's Purpose we almost get to see little glimpses of how these things are gonna unfold. Can I say those that for sure? No, and it might just be me being crazy, but I do think That there is some reality to which Almost we're almost prophetic about how God is gonna work in The world that we're in right now.
Life imitating art.
Yeah, all right, miss Gail it is.
When you say did that person know God when Rachel asked that? But what is y 'all opinion.
Each of y 'all's opinion on what it takes for a person to get. No, don't don't be sorry. Oh.
Don't you be sorry, don't you be sorry for a second? No, that's important. That's a very important question. I think it's a great way to end too. So who wants to go first?
No, no, go ahead guys.
One.
When that person comes to you, you know this you got to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. When every one of us came to know the Lord we once were blind. But now we see did anybody in this room articulate the gospel in the way that they can articulate it today when they were first saved.
No, we couldn't. I remember when the Jehovah's Witness I'd only been saved six months. Jehovah's Witness guy came to my came to my house I'm in there shadow boxing and kickboxing and In a garage and he begins to tell me that I don't believe in the Lord and Because I didn't believe in it the way that he said and I was like you are So frustrated that I know that I believe in Jesus.
I finally got frustrated and told him dude If you don't get out of my garage, I'm gonna break your jaw. That was sinful. But I told him I was so frustrated at that point and then I he left and I sat down and I went Lord, I'm not equipped to defend this Person that has saved me.
So.
Lord show me and I read the book of Romans and it tells you you have broken God's law. You are condemned before God because every man has sinned and this person that you don't that it is. You can take this you can say for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
God's demand is absolute perfection. You can't be perfect. God has provided that perfect sacrifice and that perfect righteousness that you need in Jesus Christ fully God fully man. You trust in that as it has your way of salvation and God says he will save you.
God says he will save you and you begin there. Hey, we can we have no problem equipping people. Our hopes are as we Preach and teach every week that even from the pulpit or in the podiums back there as we teach that the gospel is coming.
Forward that we go. Okay. There is a call to repent and trust in Christ. And as you leave here, we should you should be able to take the message that's preached Weekend and week out or taught weekend and week out whether it's in Job or whether it's in Daniel.
Or whether it's in 2nd Corinthians and take that away and go. This is a picture of the gospel. This is a picture of God's way of saving his people whether it be through Shadrach Meshach and Abednego. Preserving them in the fire in the fire or whether it be Job being preserved by God when the very essence of evil the devil himself attacked him or Using the 2nd Corinthians which has pointed so much to Jesus Christ as being fully God fully man and the new covenant that is Taking what is taught here weekend and week out and taking it into the streets and to taking it to our communities into our homes in our workplace destruction site wherever.
But if you need someone to teach you a method of doing it, no problem. We will provide that for you. We will do that.
I can't see out of this way. Anyway, I Sister gal, I understand exactly we say and and I would just encourage you that God saves. And God saves by grace. We never we're not just saved by right doctrine who was saved by God's grace.
Now the right doctrinal leaders to God's grace. I would say to you You tell them about Jesus and You tell them about Jesus the best way you can and then you trust God. To roll up his sleeves and do what only he could do anyway, because you could be the best evangelist spokesman Testifier witness or anything and that's still not going to get them saved because we we ain't saving nobody.
God is doing to save it. So I hope that help you.
One thing you did say and I want to speak to this and then we'll close. You said, you know that the the person you're talking about said, I don't even know if I believe in God and There is a sense in which sometimes the initial conversation needs to be pointing them to what Romans 1 says that all men know God exists because we see his very works in the nature around us and His invisible attributes and his divine nature are clearly perceived in the things that have been made.
So you can look that person in the eyes and say, you know God exists as well as I do because you can see what he's doing and everything around you that's been made. He even made you and because he made you you're responsible to him.
And that's a way to start that conversation just reminding them. You do know God exists and you do know you're responsible to him and because of that what Mike said is true. You have to deal with his law.
And we don't tell him you have to live that by the Ten Commandments because they they can't they don't you tell them that you've broken those commandments and that's why you need Christ and I just I'm thankful for my brothers and any one of us would be willing to walk through this more with you if you Need us to sit down and help you and even having some literature with you like a gospel Tract or a little book or something and Andy, I mean, he's the book Meister.
He's got he's got ideas. So if there's a little book to give someone that might help them. Articulate the things that you're not yet ready to articulate that might be good to do as well. Yeah to be humble about it.
Absolutely Yeah, I don't understand everything but here's somebody who can help and here's a little small, you know, don't give them a don't give them Institutes. Yeah, don't give them Calvin's Institutes.
I see you in five years. But but I hope that's helpful. Guys, you enjoy this this time. Did you enjoy the conference? All right. Well Rachel's gonna come up and.
