The Israel-Palestine Conflict Explained

We are live now on the conversations that matter podcast. It's not usual that I'm live early, but I'm live about five minutes early so I know people are gonna start to stream in probably in about five to ten minutes and We have a lot to talk about today, there's a lot going on in the Middle East and I'm looking forward to it.

I have professor Rob Ritchie with me a professor Ritchie. How are you? Great. Thank you. Good to see you again. I Just looked at the bio on the Liberty website. I probably didn't need to because I actually worked for you when I first was a grad student at Liberty.

Graded papers for you. You said I did a good job at the time. Hopefully you still feel that way but uh, you've written a book on a history of warfare in the Greater Middle East and This is available on Amazon.

People can go check that out if they want. You and two other LU professors. But you've been in the military. I think what over 30 years. Yes. And you were historian when you? Exited the military now you teach at Liberty University.

That that's correct. That's correct. I entered the Marine Corps in 1974 the first fiscal year of the all-volunteer force. I retired in 07 As an Air Force historian, so I was downrange in Iraq for a brief very brief period of time in a staff role.

Covering the war. That's correct. So that I mean that must have been a fascinating job. You're seeing what's happening right in front of you and you're documenting it for the military. Essentially, that's what it sounds like.

It is and especially in light of Scripture, you know, you can't help but sit back and go. We're seeing the same cast of characters the same horrific levels of passion that we see 3 ,000 years ago written down in the Bible.

So it really is an honor to serve in a very small way.

Yeah, Liberty University and in the military studying this subject. One of the things I remember I appreciated about you So much is you would have a little meeting at the beginning of the semester and try to focus what you know.

What's our theme? What are we gonna focus on this semester? I remember that it stuck in my mind because you were just so focused on Christ Scripture Making. I think you're very concerned about the students you have in their relationship to Christ.

Not just knowing the material on military history or geography or those kinds of things. So so so feel free if you want to get into the theological Dynamics of this you're more than welcome but I was hoping given your background we could start with the history here because people have a lot of questions and I see a lot of ignorance out there.

I don't know if you've seen that but just people saying things that are Obviously extremely biased and and don't they don't understand all the facts and and they've picked a very firm position. And you know right now I live in upstate New York right now and about two hours south in New York City.

There's riots going on right now or at least protests pro Palestinian pro Jewish and There's just a lot of division. And so I think the the basic question is how did we get here? Which I know is such a big question, but Historically speaking what led to this because you look at a map of Israel and you look at like, you know The Gaza Strip and you're wondering how does that make any sense?

Why is that there right? And and I don't think people understand exactly how we came to this point so you can start wherever you want if you want to start in the 1800s or the ancient world or.

Ancient Roots of the Israel-Palestine Conflict

Well, you know, it's sort of like discussing the meaning of life. I mean, how many. Yeah, you know, I'm but I think in essence what you're seeing is A problem with modernity and what I mean by that is you have a line on the map.

That is Israel. Well who drew that line who gave me the authority to draw that line in the ancient world you could see where God divided up Israel and gave it to the various tribes based on geographic locations.

That's not what we're dealing with. We're dealing with drawn borders now and who drew those drawn borders. That's a Western phenomenon, um, and I think that's really at the very root of. The current crisis is a combination of antiquity going back to Abraham Isaac and Ishmael and their descendants and Modernity where you see a Proud warrior culture if I may of the greater Middle East which I characterize is going from you know.

Really from West Africa to Afghanistan. Down to Indonesia if the greater Middle East in response to this Imposing of drawn lines in there in their perceived realm the Dar al-Islam the world in submission.

So to answer your question, I hope that wasn't too much gobbledygook. I want to focus on the marriage of antiquity and the modern and I think that's where we see a real challenge because in between that You really had Islam emerge.

And that's a facet. I actually have not heard anyone talk about that. Maybe there are people talking about it this way. But are you saying that there weren't borders. Because I thought there there were borders.

Maybe were they just not as exact in the ancient world.

Exactly, and that's what brings you to Gaza Strip. There's a nice drawn line like the state of Utah, you know I see Kansas drawn on the map Sykes-Picot 1919 delineates the borders of Iraq Syria. All this was done Under the authority of the Western powers and so you're seeing a real pushback To an earlier century.

That's an insult to Islam and that good and that really takes us back to the Ottoman Turks and Why they fell into decline, you know a righteous people don't understand well. Then why are the the sinners those in Dar al-harb the world in rebellion?

Why are they so much more powerful than we are? What are we doing wrong? And this this is I think the dynamic that's at work in this part of the world in the modern they're trying to resolve issues from yesteryear and we have to remember to John if I may that we Americans have a memory span that's about.

It's non-existent. Okay. Yeah, you start dealing with the Middle East or the East. These people remember a thousand years like we remember five years and and that's hard for us to wrap our mind around.

But we truly need to understand that they are still licking their wounds from Karbala. I mean, they're still hurting. From our Bella, you know battles that we'll get into that have really shaped the world today.

So I'm Somewhat familiar with the history like loosely. I mean, I know what the Balfour Declaration is which one maybe we'll talk about and the Oslo Accords and I understand that there's a lot of the histories of this starts with Zionism.

They start with Moses Hess and Jewish people getting persecuted in Europe and needing a homeland like a safe place for them to go to. I don't know if that's where you want to start this story though. Because I would think as a Christian biblically we would go back even farther than that to work.

You know, but you know John again.

The name of the game I'm in and academia is credentials. I'm supposed to play the role of this wise holy man. Okay. Well, I'm the guy who can't remember where his car keys are. Okay. So I think what we really want to aim for here is to stimulate an intelligent conversation with your viewers.

And and you have a renowned audience, you know of faithful listeners, you know. All who can contribute to this conversation and that's really what we want to do. We want to spark that because we're really looking to bring glory to God through his creation.

So, yeah, let's start with the ancient world, I mean, let's let's go. So. So where does this conflict this animosity between the Palestinians so-called today and the Israelis then really originate them.

Well, first of all, the Palestinian term as I understand it is a Greek slash Roman Term maybe even one of derision, but it generally covered The coastal area of the Levant in the eastern Mediterranean.

You know, for example when we talk about Holland, well Holland in the nation. It's the Netherlands. Likewise the toponym. That's a fancy college word for name place. The toponym of Palestine was a small area that everybody had heard of because from antiquity had been the realm of the Phoenicians.

The dealers of purple, you know the Roman purple for aristocracy those Murex clams came from those beaches and and then the Philistines. Is the origin of the the term Phoenician? So again, it's like us referring to Holland when we really mean, you know.

The United was it the United States of the Netherlands or whatever? I don't even know so so it's a generic term misapplied on the basis of the memory of Western Europe of the Philistines and. And it's a term applied after you see the last Barakoba revolt in 135 AD.

When the and this began with the Maccabeans In the 160s and this is why when Jesus came in everything everybody was looking for a for a political savior this Jewish nationalism was chafing Rome to where they finally just had enough and they they just said Okay, we're gonna we're gonna export all the Jews and now this is going to be referred to as Palestine.

All right to the best of my knowledge. That was where the term came from. So it really is a term that was applied to both Jews and Arabs alike who lived in this really and from what I can read from contemporary historians of the time a very bleak impoverished landscape.

There really was nothing there.

So Okay. This is a geographical Designation then it since it encompassed Jews you said and Others who lived in there. I would agree with that.

It was also seems to be an attempt to just wipe out the memory of ancient Israel. I see.

So who are the the modern Palestinians then? Are they Syrians then or well, they're mostly.

But but they're also Christians in there. Boy. I'd hate to be a You know, but we've taught them at Liberty beautiful kids Arab Christians who were from Palestine.

Really? Yes, sir. How big. I mean that must not be a large population. No, it's like the Coptic Christians in Egypt.

They they've got to be seriously oppressed minority. But now Gaza to well, you didn't ask me but Gaza today is I believe about two million people. Packed into an area packed into an area. There's something like 25 miles by five miles.

I believe I've got that right. It's one of the it would if it was a nation-state would be the third most densely populated nation in the world. Yeah, it's an amazing. It's an amazing urbanization has occurred there and and it's and it's it's a very.

There are no good ports as the Allies found in World War two in the in the Egyptian campaigns. There were no ports to offload supplies and this has really been a hindrance to the development of this region.

That's all I didn't realize. It was that urban that that's incredible.

It's amazingly and I can tell you as a former tank commander. That's bad. Juju Tankers hate vertical borders. They don't like trees jungles hills. They like nice flat open spaces where they can do their damage.

The the nature of the urban terrain here is just going to be it's gonna be. Intensive in terms of manpower should and I have not seen reports yet. I don't know to what extent infantry has been Deployed into Gaza, but it's going to be it's gonna be a scrap.

That's for sure.

Yeah, I don't know what the intention is right this second but I am assuming the state of Israel is trying to take that region for to dominate it themselves and to expel the at least the power of the Palestinians so-called there.

Well, they gotta see they've got to secure what they themselves have characterized as an open-air prison, right?

It's an area that that really has very little of its own indigenous manufacturing or employment. These are the people who basically do the dirty work for the Israelis. They drive out they come back in.

They're gonna have to secure those tunnels and and so the bottom line is when you get into urban terrain. The nature of the beast as I remember it in my 20 minutes in the infantry is Is securing rooftops so you start getting into rooftop fighting and You know.

It's like I said, it's gonna be manpower intensive. They're gonna be high casualties. Probably the smartest thing for the Israelis to do would be to sit back and What it sounds like they're doing and use time as only the Israelis can do and I'd like to just mention that when it's convenient That no one is a master of time and space like the Israeli.

No one and I suspect it's because of the closeness. They walked with God. You mean patience timing the timing that Israelis have because of the size of a nation that's no bigger than New Jersey. In fact, I believe at one point it's even nine miles wide.

That's the extent of it. Yeah, they have had to react through time and space and Make decisions but with the advantage of interior lines faster than an invading Emirate enemy can hit them and this goes back as Far as the first battle recorded in world history I believe it's Megiddo This they they have always been able to use time and space and intelligence and diplomacy to their advantage.

It's uncanny How a bunch of shepherds in hill countries would be able to respond so quickly in unison. And we can get into that as you want to but the key to timing of course is waiting Micah 77 waiting on God, you know.

Interesting. Okay, so that's that's part of the culture because it's part of the religion. It sounds like what you're saying all right, so the we talked a little bit about the map and this is an imposition of a Western kind of I guess paradigm.

But how did we specifically though get here as far as like why why the Gaza Strip? Why is that where the Muslims and some Christians that are quartered off? Why you know, we the goal in well not the Golan Heights, but the.

You know, why is Israel split? Why? Why are the Palestinians there in pockets, but not? Integrated and. This all seems to be. Is this the British's fault? Really? I mean you Romans and the Ottomans and now that British most recently.

British, Zionism, and the Creation of Israel

Well, the short answer to your question is I don't know but the long answer. Which is what I get paid. But the long and the long answer is really the British at the end of World War one recognized they had to control Suez they wanted to hold on to India and their Empire and Second of all oil the importance of oil in the region.

Now this is where Israel kind of missed the mark. They're the one people that don't have oil at least in any substantial numbers. And so they tried to come up with a two-state solution. Now this is where I would argue that the Jews sometimes get ahead of themselves they actually Killed British soldiers and pushed against the two-state solution and Utilized foreign diplomacy through the UN to create the state of Israel 1948 and they were instantly at war right.

And How that relates to the centrifugality of the Palestinians drawn together on the coast other than to say? That's where they historically been on that what we call the highway of the sea. There's two routes to go from southern Israel to Syria and that was the game back in these days.

Israel's wedged between the great land empires of Egypt and the Fertile Crescent, which would be alternately what the Assyrians the The Babylonians the Persians the Medes and so forth those roads were vital.

So I suspect that trade route road that caravan route. That key to Egypt now boy, you got to see the world through the enemy's eyes sometimes when you're a fighter. But the Egyptians are absolutely paranoid about this region this is where they have been invaded throughout history and likewise is where for example the British and World War one when they went into Mesopotamia they came up through Gaza Strip.

So Gaza is a very sensitive area militarily because of the highway on the coast. It's flat open its armored country with the exception of the urban terrain. We talked about earlier in the cities Densely populated and why the people drew together there other than they've been there since Really the beginning of the Bible.

I don't know.

So the the claim so the the Palestinian claim is that they've been here for centuries and The Israelis then are at least in the numbers that they've come are the ones who are the newcomers. Yeah, of course.

That's right. Right. And and the Israelis claim that There's a theological claim obviously that God has given us this land, but they also claim that no we've actually There was a diaspora, but there was always Jews still living here.

And so there is this tie that you can connect. And of course on top of that we need a place to be safe from persecution in other regions. So, I mean, is that the heart of it then of why both can test for this and because they sound like both Claims have maybe an element of legitimacy.

Well, and I think what you're really getting towards is what is Zionism and and and what you really have in 1860 Theodore Heisel has this vision the Jews are gonna be persecuted and boy tell me he would know a visionary.

Um, I mean he sees this as in the you know, I think we still had the Austro-Hungarian Empire at this time. Okay, um. He he has this vision and he immediately starts seeking a holy land or a place for the Jews to return you know and as we know in Jeremiah Isaiah, you'll see God promises that they his people will return and.

And many people of course the Jewish people would probably tend to see that as a return from the exile in Babylonia Persia, but you know, I don't get too deep in the theology, but the bottom line is The Zionist movement what's really interesting to me is how few Jews supported it.

They didn't want to be isolated and alone. In fact, I would argue a lot of American Jewry. Now, this is very controversial. Okay, and and I apologize if I'm offensive, but They just want to be left alone.

They don't want to be God's chosen people. They don't particularly they want to go out and make money and enjoy the good life like the rest of us. Okay, they don't want to have this burden following them and it's interesting because Haim Weissman who would work with Theodore Heisel Heisel would would reach out and they would find allies in the Church of England and German pietism.

You know that a lot of people forget the Prussians were a very devout people. And in fact the Nazis and what you talk about being controversial even marched into battle with God is with us on their belt buckles.

As a remnant of that former Christianity the strength of the Lutheran Church if you will. But it's in America Uniquely that Protestants are going to take up the cause of Zionism. Because American families averaging 8 .5 children each and I have one of those point fives I can tell you they're gonna.

They're they're going to relate to the heroes of the Bible. They're going to see at a time of a neoclassical revival. You know our buildings in Washington are all based on Greek Roman buildings, which makes no sense when it's raining and winter here but you know, they they they want to relate to this pre-renaissance culture.

They see themselves as providentially driven by God and likewise. They're feel a kinship with the Jews through the Bible perhaps even more than Jews did and so America is going to begin. You know, really we'll start with Woodrow Wilson Louis Brandeis the first Jew on the Supreme Court Works Wilson At Versailles and when those borders get drawn all over the Middle East those nice lines on the map separating the Caliphs the three Empire states of the Turks the Arabs and the Persians Iran and that's really the heart of the problem drawing these lines and America's gonna be deeply involved.

And of course, Harry Truman is gonna miraculously be there to sign for the State of Israel's creation and this is a miracle because the Soviet Union and one of the only Times I know of at the height of the Cold War agreed with the US and immediately retracted its position, but it was too late.

So Israel's creation is miraculous and the folks like me and I suspect you John we see God's hand in this. So there is an element of religious fervor. So these Jews come in they're immediately attacked.

They win naturally as they always do because they're masters of time and space. Diplomacy and all these things I can go in the greater detail as you wish. But America is is almost like, you know Tried with them in this experience.

Emotionally, and and so it's a fascinating development and that's really how we got there now the Palestinians. Really represent I believe to not just the Arab but the Islamic world really a Crusader element of outsiders who have dared to penetrate the sacred space that is Islam and It's hard for us to understand this in operation Desert Shield Desert Saber Desert Storm 1990 -91.

I was pulling my hair out. Okay, fortunately, I have a little bit still left but because we were leaving our boot marks in the land of the sacred and This came back to hit us on 9 -11 when what was it 16 of 19 of the hijackers were Saudis.

Our sense are our sensible allies. When you desecrate that Holy of Holies that sacred space think of the Jewish Temple the three doors as I understand the way the truth and the light Jesus said I'm the way the truth in life to get to that Holy of Holies that intercessor where the veil would be torn when he was crucified that to violate sacred ground by drawing lines on Maps has created a centrifugal effect against these three Empire states because of Zionism which at its heart I would argue is very deeply ingrained in the American experience.

That the American experience. And would you say the British experience as well or uniquely American a British. The British actually started it. That's what I started it. But you know.

And this is an interesting thing. I'm just gonna throw this out there for your audience just to chew on. I'm not saying I agree. I'm not smart enough to understand this. But the Jews show up in empires at amazing times throughout history.

And again, I'm somewhat of a providentialist, but it's always at the decline of an empire. They exercise power. It seems like right there at the time and then they step to the next one and in the British Empire.

You know, the Rothschilds would be the first Jewish family to be knighted. They're gonna actually the British are gonna find themselves. So indebted. That's what brings about the Balfour Declaration. You mentioned in 1917.

They're broke and the nations of the world have always been indebted and broke and to Jewish people. It's fascinating. So God has used this I think in an amazing way. So as the British Empire began to decline they could no longer support their empire.

After 1948 the year Israel's created the u .s. Steps in and I would argue that's the apogee of our global power.

American Foreign Policy, Israel, and Christian Eschatology

Okay. Yeah, interesting. So British so British and American help and we still give. I think if I'm not mistaken Israel is still the country we give more foreign aid to maybe Ukraine's eclipsed that I'm not sure than any other country.

Militarily, I don't know if you'd have the stats on that or no.

I do I do know that in terms of the Iron Dome we I believe is 38 billion. I saw between 2019 and 28 we've given them. And of course, we're writing checks now like there's no tomorrow, right? Right? There may be no tomorrow.

So we're writing checks. But you know, so that's 38 billion for the Iron Dome alone. And it's interesting, you know at times we threatened to cut off a for example in the Israelis in the early 60s develop a nuclear Bomb, a lot of people didn't know about this.

John F Kennedy was trying to stop them from nuclear development, but they were going to go their own way. Even those years they continue to receive massive sums. So, you know, I'm a big supporter of Israel, you know I believe God will bless those who bless them.

That's just my truth and disclosure where I'm coming from. But yeah, they're a major recipient of American funding.

Yes, sir. So so this so theologically since we have stepped into that a little bit. I know Christians are Very much in disagreement with one another depending on I think their eschatological position and some I would say more covenantal and especially more post-millennial Christians.

It seems like they trend and if this there's exceptions to this obviously. But they they trend in thinking that there's really no significance to the nation-state of Israel. We we should not the the church obviously is the true Israel of God and so that there's nothing significant here and then the more dispensational Christians and Premillennial Christians tend to see this as this is a fulfillment of prophecy in some way or will lead to it.

The question I guess I have as and it sounds like you're in that latter camp is Does that affect or should that affect in your opinion foreign policy or is that even? Is that even inescapable because it seems like for the Muslims for you're saying the Americans too in a sense and for the Jews, there's a religious element with all three of The positions that we've historically taken here.

So so is there any way to take that out of the equation or or or not?

Solution. I guess yeah, I really don't think you can. I think I think clarity demands that we see The situation for what it is and The religious element I will say this. I think Americans oftentimes confuse domestic politics.

And our perspectives of dealing with our Jewish friends here with Israel. Israel You know, really was created largely by young men who survived the Holocaust. Because the women and children didn't survive um the Jews have gone from One place to the other.

I mentioned the providential aspects of the rise and fall of nations. But look at just the persecution factor. So when they came into The empty area of Palestine with the decline of the Ottoman Empire and that's really key to understand this the Ottomans that had taxed their people out of Existence.

They really Palestine was absentee landlord ism, which you're going to see with the Zionist movement and in the return of affections Especially after the Holocaust towards Israel to my mind at least is an eschatological fulfillment.

Which is a great encouragement will always be a political factor, but to my mind at least this is just my opinion. American foreign policy should be dedicated towards achieving the ends of Security for the American Constitution foremost life liberty in the pursuit of happiness.

To the extent that we can save any of those. I'm all about that. I Particularly am NOT drawn into well, this is a democracy in the Middle East. Uh, so I mean the tyranny of the mob is proverbial. I mean the mob had Jesus crucified.

I mean that right democracy democracy is not my primary concern. My primary concern is the security of my children and grandchildren. I believe that's what God put me here to do. But you know, we're all going to vote our thoughts and opinions and it's going to manifest itself domestic policies.

You're going to manifest itself in foreign policy on an equal footing. So, you know as we see the world if we're suddenly gripped in the fear of climate change. That's going to affect how we see the outside world.

But that's just my sense. So yes religion cannot be divided out of this equation and especially from an Islamic standpoint. The reason that Persians John if I'm talking too much, I'm sorry. No, no, please.

It's nice to have an audience out here on the farm. I get very few that don't have four legs. But but but the key to my mind at least is Understanding why Persia entered this fight and Persia is behind this fight, right?

This fight because they do not want the Arabs in Israel coming together. Iran specifically, right? Exactly their eschatology is that they want to bring Jesus back to but they can only do it by fighting the infidel.

Spilling blood. I would argue that's just my interpretation. Okay, but the Turks are another player in this region. Okay, and the Turks left a legacy of ruling over the Arabs. So the one thing that brings these people together and tell me this is an incredibly providential is the state of Israel.

It's a constant reminder of the infidels presence in their sacred space. I Would argue at the root of the regional psychology. So yes religion. I.

I'm with you. I think and I have a pre-millennial mindset I Look at it's hard for me to get around and obviously this isn't chapter and verse but some of the incredible just they couldn't be coincidences like things that happen to bring about the state of Israel and then they're in the six-day war and In 1973 what they did in defeating their enemies is just incredible like miraculous, right?

They flew it 30 feet in three-minute intervals. Off the ground dropping cluster bombs on Egyptian airports. I mean you talk about space and time, but yes, sir. I interrupted.

Yeah, no, I'm glad you said that. I Watched some of the History Channel did a dogfight series years ago on I think it was in 1973 and just some of the stories I'm like, how does you know one Jewish aircraft take down seven MiGs?

Like it's just it's insane but you know the thing that. That I I think I really resonated with what you just said is that America should be concerned. Primarily about American foreign policy. So when people do bring up as you said, it's it's our greatest ally.

It's a democracy of the Middle East. It's It'd be the fulfillment of prophecy, whatever. I just think like well it's I feel the same way I feel about Ukraine and Russia like Maybe personally I'll support I'll give aid to to a side not to help them but to help humanitarian.

So quote-unquote efforts, but I I just don't want my government. Getting involved in something that doesn't seem to be really our fight and and that I think would transcend eschatology for Christians that.

In fact, I found out maybe you know more about this that some of our weapons that we've been giving to Ukraine Have wound up in the hands of Hamas and they're using them against Israel. It's just it's a mess what we've done.

That's just that's my opinion, but I don't know if you care to comment on that or you want to it's a little controversial.

No, you said something that resonated with me though. Um. From the. You know, I'm much more Comfortable talking about Griswold's core in Bougainville and the Southwest Pacific World War two. So this again is outside my forte.

But using the Battle of Arbella as an example again. What Alexander the Great did is he hit the Persians with one line that forced him to respond? Then as they were responding hit with the next line. They had to respond to that on the offensive while he held ground.

Kind of like the Union at Gettysburg forcing Lee to come to them. Then he hit with another echelon in succession. To me and my greatest fear is that the Pax Americana the the global peace that America has ensured for the last half century or so is Similar and everybody talks about the Roman Empire similar to the barbarians hitting the Romans the Pax Romana.

There's a point where the line gets overwhelmed and Ukraine is the first shoe to drop. Then the greater Middle East and Iran and and smart money starting to see this now watch Korea heat up. The ultimate prize is Taiwan, you know Sun Tzu said that and this is a gross paraphrase.

But if you see smoke and fire of battle, you see a look you see a failed plan. The Chinese see a fight as a failure. They intend to win without firing a shot. They're smarter than we are. They have a longer history.

Therefore they can move more methodically. We are an emotional people who respond quickly to events. Remember 9 -11. Osama bin Laden wanted us to come to war in the Middle East. Why to unite the the Caliphate to to to pull those Empire states the Turks the Persians.

I keep coming back this and the Arabs together. They wanted us to do that. This is what they want us to do now but you know the great thing about knowing God is we can wait on him and We can and like you said, I believe it was Palmerston or Gladstone.

I forget which of the British Prime Ministers who said the British Empire does not have permanent alliances. It has permanent interests. Our interests in the Middle East Should be directed towards using time and space like the Israelis have modeled for us since the beginning of time.

Towards the end of assuring the Constitution is protected. There's a bigger fight ahead of us.

Why Gaza Is a Military Flashpoint

Yeah, I sense that I think a lot of people sense that too, especially with China. So what would be it's a mess obviously. But what would be the ideal. Because you know right now if you go on social media, you're gonna see.

Especially on Twitter you're gonna see one group of people show Highlighting all the horrible things Israel's doing to Palestine and they'll show the bombed-out, you know rubble and I mean, it looks horrific.

There there's there's a video circulating right now and in the fog of war I don't know if I trust any of these but it's supposedly Israel soldiers. Israeli soldiers killing three Palestinian men and then planting guns on them as if they were fighting when they weren't and so there's things like that that are Causing outrage, but then obviously on the other side you have yesterday.

There was a story going around I didn't see any video evidence, but of that them killing I don't know where they went into a maternity ward and killed 40 infants. The Palestinians did this to the Jews and so so you have like this.

It's irreconcilable it seems so so what's the if you were a diplomat that had to go in and try to Bring about a peace. I mean Is there anything that can be done or is it just one sides going to win and we have to step back and let it?

Happen, I think unfortunately, we're reaching a point where The language reflects what I believe his name was O 'Connell at UVA in the 80s wrote reflects Interspecific war like the war in the Pacific once you start to call the enemy animals you dehumanize them.

Then you can slaughter them and once the slaughter starts and you know how that ended up in the Pacific War. That's right finished with nuclear weapons. I think the greatest thing we can do and this sounds corny and can but true Christians know.

It's true is pray for the peace of Jerusalem. Recognize evil for what it is. Maybe we could start securing our own border. Maybe maybe they intelligence services. Okay, which the only thing they've definitively claimed is that hunter Biden's laptop was Russian disinformation.