The Israel-Palestine Conflict Explained

Conversations That Matter

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00:01

We are live now on the Conversations That Matter podcast.

00:05

It's not usual that I'm live early, but I'm live about five minutes early, so I know people are gonna start to stream in probably in about five to 10 minutes.

00:14

And we have a lot to talk about today.

00:17

There's a lot going on in the Middle East, and I'm looking forward to it.

00:21

I have Professor Rob Ritchie with me.

00:24

Hey, Professor Ritchie, how are you? Great, thank you.

00:27

Good to see you again.

00:29

I just looked at the bio on the Liberty website.

00:31

I probably didn't need to, because I actually worked for you when I first was a grad student at Liberty, graded papers for you.

00:37

You said I did a good job at the time.

00:38

Hopefully, you still feel that way.

00:41

But you've written a book on the history of warfare in the greater Middle East, and this is available on Amazon.

00:48

People can go check that out if they want, you and two other LU professors.

00:53

But you've been in the military, I think, what, over 30 years? Yes, sir.

01:00

And you were a historian when you exited the military, and now you teach at Liberty University.

01:05

That's correct, that's correct.

01:07

I entered the Marine Corps in 1974, the first fiscal year of the all-volunteer force.

01:13

I retired in 07 as an Air Force historian.

01:17

So I was downrange in Iraq for a very brief period of time in a staff role covering the war, that's correct.

01:27

So, I mean, that must have been a fascinating job.

01:29

You're seeing what's happening right in front of you, and you're documenting it for the military, essentially, that's what it sounds like.

01:36

It is, and especially in light of scripture.

01:39

You know, you can't help but sit back and go, we're seeing the same cast of characters, the same horrific levels of passion that we see 3,000 years ago written down in the Bible.

01:52

So it really is an honor to serve in a very small way at Liberty University and in the military studying this subject.

02:01

One of the things I remember I appreciated about you so much is you would have a little meeting at the beginning of the semester and try to focus, you know, what's our theme? What are we gonna focus on this semester? I remember that, it stuck in my mind because you were just so focused on Christ, scripture, making, I think you're very concerned about the students you have and their relationship to Christ, not just knowing the material on military history or geography or those kinds of things.

02:29

So feel free, if you wanna get into theological dynamics of this, you're more than welcome.

02:35

But I was hoping, given your background, we could start with the history here because people have a lot of questions.

02:40

And I see a lot of ignorance out there.

02:42

I don't know if you've seen that, but just people saying things that are obviously extremely biased and they don't understand all the facts and they've picked a very firm position.

02:54

And, you know, right now I live in upstate New York right now and about two hours South in New York City, there's riots going on right now, or at least protests, pro-Palestinian, pro-Jewish.

03:05

And there's just a lot of division.

03:07

And so I think the basic question is how did we get here? Which I know is such a big question, but historically speaking, what led to this? Because you look at a map of Israel and you look at like, you know, the Gaza Strip and you're wondering, how does that make any sense? Why is that there, right? And I don't think people understand exactly how we came to this point.

03:28

So you can start wherever you want.

03:29

If you want to start in the 1800s or the ancient world or.

03:32

Well, you know, it's sort of like discussing the meaning of life.

03:35

I mean, how many, you know, I mean, but I think in essence, what you're seeing is a problem with modernity.

03:46

And what I mean by that is you have a line on the map that is Israel.

03:51

Well, who drew that line? Who gave them the authority to draw that line? In the ancient world, you could see where God divided up Israel and gave it to the various tribes based on geographic locations.

04:03

That's not what we're dealing with.

04:04

We're dealing with drawn borders now.

04:06

And who drew those drawn borders? That's a Western phenomenon.

04:11

And I think that's really at the very root of the current crisis is a combination of antiquity, going back to Abraham, Isaac and Ishmael and their descendants and modernity, where you see a proud warrior culture, if I may, of the greater Middle East, which I characterize as going from, you know, really from West Africa to Afghanistan, down to Indonesia.

04:44

If the greater Middle East is in response to this imposing of drawn lines in their perceived realm, the Dar al-Islam, the world in submission.

04:55

So to answer your question, I hope that wasn't too much gobbledygook, I wanna focus on the marriage of antiquity and the modern.

05:03

And I think that's where we see a real challenge because in between that, you really had Islam emerge.

05:11

And that's fascinating.

05:12

I actually have not heard anyone talk about that.

05:15

Maybe there are people talking about it this way, but are you saying that there weren't borders? Cause I thought there were borders, were they just not as exact in the ancient world? Exactly.

05:25

And that's what brings you to Gaza Strip.

05:27

There's a nice drawn line, like the state of Utah.

05:30

I see.

05:31

Kansas, drawn on the map, Sykes-Picot 1919, delineates the borders of Iraq, Syria.

05:36

All this was done under the authority of the Western powers.

05:41

And so you're seeing a real pushback to an earlier century that's an insult to Islam.

05:47

And that really takes us back to the Ottoman Turks and why they fell into decline.

05:54

You know, a righteous people don't understand well, then why are the sinners, those in Dar al-Harb, the world in rebellion, why are they so much more powerful than we are? What are we doing wrong? And this is, I think, the dynamic that's at work in this part of the world in the modern.

06:10

They're trying to resolve issues from yesteryear.

06:13

And we have to remember too, John, if I may, that we Americans have a memory span that's about, it's non-existent, okay? When you start dealing with the Middle East or the East, these people remember a thousand years like we remember five years.

06:29

And that's hard for us to wrap our mind around, but we truly need to understand that they are still licking their wounds from Karbala.

06:36

I mean, they're still hurting from Arbela.

06:40

You know, battles that we'll get into that have really shaped the world today.

06:44

So I'm somewhat familiar with the history, like loosely.

06:49

I mean, I know what the Balfour Declaration is, which maybe we'll talk about, and the Oslo Accords.

06:53

And I understand that there's, a lot of the histories of this starts with Zionism.

07:00

They start with Moses Hess and Jewish people getting persecuted in Europe and needing a homeland, like a safe place for them to go to.

07:08

I don't know if that's where you want to start the story though, because I would think as a Christian biblically, we would go back even farther than that to- But you know, John, again, the name of the game I'm in in academia is credentials.

07:25

I'm supposed to play the role of this wise holy man, okay? Well, I'm the guy who can't remember where his car keys are, okay? So I think what we really want to aim for here is to stimulate an intelligent conversation with your viewers.

07:39

And you have a renowned audience of faithful listeners, all who can contribute to this conversation.

07:46

And that's really what we want to do.

07:47

We want to spark that because we're really looking to bring glory to God through his creation.

07:52

So yeah, let's start with the ancient world.

07:54

I mean, let's go.

07:56

So where does this conflict, this animosity between the Palestinians so-called today and the Israelis then really originate then? Well, first of all, the Palestinian term, as I understand it, is a Greek slash Roman term, maybe even one of derision, but it generally covered the coastal area of the Levant in the Eastern Mediterranean.

08:21

You know, for example, when we talk about Holland, well, Holland isn't a nation, it's the Netherlands.

08:27

Likewise, the Toponim, that's a fancy college word for name place.

08:31

The Toponim of Palestine was a small area that everybody had heard of because from antiquity had been the realm of the Phoenicians, the dealers of purple, you know, the Roman purple for aristocracy.

08:43

Those Murex clams came from those beaches.

08:47

And then the Philistines is the origin of the term Phoenician.

08:53

So again, it's like us referring to Holland when we really mean, you know, the United, was it the United States or the Netherlands or whatever? I don't even know.

09:02

So it's a generic term misapplied on the basis of the memory of Western Europe of the Philistines.

09:09

And it's a term applied after you see the last Bar Kova revolt in 135 AD, when the, and this began with the Maccabeans in the 160s.

09:20

And this is why when Jesus came in, everybody was looking for a political savior.

09:25

This Jewish nationalism was chafing Rome to where they finally just had enough.

09:31

And they just said, okay, we're gonna export all the Jews.

09:35

And now this is gonna be referred to as Palestine.

09:39

All right, to the best of my knowledge, that was where the term came from.

09:43

So it really is a term that was applied to both Jews and Arabs alike who lived in this really, and from what I can read from contemporary historians of the time, a very bleak, impoverished landscape.

09:58

There really was nothing there.

10:01

So, okay, this is a geographical designation then, since it encompassed Jews, you said, and others who lived in their region.

10:11

I would agree with that.

10:12

It was also seems to be an attempt to just wipe out the memory of ancient Israel.

10:16

I see.

10:17

So who are the modern Palestinians then? Are they Syrians then, or? Well, they're mostly Arabs, but there are also Christians in there.

10:26

Boy, I'd hate to be an Arab.

10:28

But we've taught them at Liberty, beautiful kids, Arab Christians who are from Palestine.

10:34

Really? Yes, sir.

10:36

So how big, I mean, that must not be a large population.

10:39

No, it's like the Coptic Christians in Egypt.

10:41

They've gotta be a seriously oppressed minority.

10:45

But now Gaza, well, you didn't ask me, but Gaza today is, I believe, about 2 million people packed into an area that's something like 25 miles by five miles.

10:58

I believe I've got that right.

11:00

It's one of the, if it was a nation state, it would be the third most densely populated nation in the world.

11:06

Yeah, it's an amazing urbanization has occurred there.

11:12

And it's a very, there are no good ports as the allies found in World War II in the Egyptian campaigns.

11:20

There were no ports to offload supplies.

11:23

And this has really been a hindrance to the development of this region.

11:29

That's, I didn't realize it was that urban.

11:31

That's incredible.

11:33

It's amazingly, and I can tell you as a former tank commander, that's bad juju.

11:37

Tankers hate vertical borders.

11:39

They don't like trees, jungles, hills.

11:42

They like nice flat open spaces where they can do their damage.

11:46

The nature of the urban terrain here is just gonna be, it's gonna be intensive in terms of manpower and I have not seen reports yet.

11:57

I don't know to what extent infantry has been deployed into Gaza, but it's gonna be a scrap, that's for sure.

12:05

Yeah, I don't know what the intention is right this second, but I am assuming the state of Israel is trying to take that region to dominate it themselves and to expel the, at least the power of the Palestinians so-called there.

12:22

Well, they've got to secure what they themselves have characterized as an open air prison.

12:27

Right.

12:28

It's an area that really has very little of its own indigenous manufacturing or employment.

12:34

These are the people who basically do the dirty work for the Israelis.

12:37

They drive out, they come back in.

12:41

They're gonna have to secure those tunnels.

12:44

And so the bottom line is when you get into urban terrain, the nature of the beast, as I remember it in my 20 minutes in the infantry, is securing rooftops.

12:55

So you start getting into rooftop fighting, and like I said, it's gonna be manpower intensive and there are gonna be high casualties.

13:05

Probably the smartest thing for the Israelis to do would be to sit back and what it sounds like they're doing and use time as only the Israelis can do.

13:13

And I'd like to just mention that when it's convenient, that no one is a master of time and space like the Israeli, no one.

13:20

And I suspect it's because of the closeness they walked with God.

13:25

You mean patience? Timing, the timing that Israelis have because of the size of a nation that's no bigger than New Jersey.

13:35

In fact, I believe at one point it's even nine miles wide.

13:37

That's the extent of it.

13:39

Yeah.

13:39

They have had to react through time and space and make decisions with the advantage of interior lines faster than an invading enemy can hit them.

13:52

And this goes back as far as the first battle recorded in world history.

13:58

I believe it was Megiddo.

14:01

They have always been able to use time and space and intelligence and diplomacy to their advantage.

14:08

It's uncanny how a bunch of shepherds in hill countries would be able to respond so quickly in unison.

14:16

And we can get into that as you want to.

14:19

But the key to timing, of course, is waiting.

14:22

Micah 77, waiting on God, yeah.

14:25

Interesting.

14:26

Okay, so that's part of the culture because it's part of the religion, it sounds like what you're saying.

14:31

All right, so we talked a little bit about the map and this is an imposition of a Western kind of, I guess, paradigm.

14:41

But how did we specifically, though, get here as far as like, why the Gaza Strip? Why is that where the Muslims and some Christians then are quartered off? Well, not the Golan Heights, but why is Israel split? Why are the Palestinians there in pockets but not integrated? And this all seems to be, is this the British's fault, really? I mean, the Romans and the Ottomans and now the British most recently? Well, the short answer to your question is, I don't know.

15:15

But the long answer, which is what I get paid to do.

15:19

But the long answer is really the British at the end of World War I recognized they had to control Suez.

15:28

They wanted to hold on to India and their empire.

15:31

And second of all, oil, the importance of oil in the region.

15:36

Now, this is where Israel kind of missed the mark.

15:39

They're the one people that don't have oil, at least in any substantial numbers.

15:43

And so they tried to come up with a two-state solution.

15:46

Now, this is where I would argue that the Jews sometimes get ahead of themselves.

15:53

They actually killed British soldiers and pushed against the two-state solution and utilized foreign diplomacy through the UN to create the state of Israel in 1948.

16:08

And they were instantly at war.

16:10

And how that relates to the centrifugality of the Palestinians drawn together on the coast, other than to say that's where they historically been on that, what we call the highway of the sea.

16:22

There's two routes that go from Southern Israel to Syria.

16:25

And that was the game back in these days.

16:28

Israel's wedged between the great land empires of Egypt and the Fertile Crescent, which would be alternately what the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Persians, the Medes, and so forth.

16:41

Those roads were vital.

16:43

So I suspect that trade route road, that caravan route, that key to Egypt.

16:49

Now, boy, you gotta see the world through the enemy's eyes sometimes when you're a fighter, but the Egyptians are absolutely paranoid about this region.

16:57

This is where they have been invaded throughout history.

16:59

And likewise, it's where, for example, the British in World War I, when they went into Mesopotamia, they came up through Gaza Strip.

17:07

So Gaza is a very sensitive area militarily because of the highway on the coast, it's flat open, it's armored country, with the exception of the urban terrain we talked about earlier in the cities, densely populated.

17:18

And why the people drew together there other than they'd been there since, really the beginning of the Bible, I don't know.

17:26

So the claim, so the Palestinian claim is that they'd been here for centuries, and the Israelis then are, at least in the numbers that they've come, are the ones who are the newcomers.

17:41

Yeah, that's right.

17:43

That's right, and the Israelis claim that, there's a theological claim, obviously, that God has given us this land, but they also claim that, no, we've actually, there was a diaspora, but there was always Jews still living here.

17:56

And so there is this tie that you can connect.

17:59

And of course, on top of that, we need a place to be safe from persecution in other regions.

18:05

So, I mean, is that the heart of it then, of why both can test for this? Because they sound like both claims have maybe an element of legitimacy.

18:16

Well, and I think what you're really getting towards is what is Zionism? And what you really have, in 1860, Theodor Heisel has this vision that Jews are gonna be persecuted, and boy, tell me he wasn't a visionary.

18:32

I mean, he sees this as in the, I think we still had the Austro-Hungarian Empire at this time, okay? He has this vision, and he immediately starts seeking a holy land or a place for the Jews to return.

18:46

And as we know in Jeremiah, Isaiah, you'll see God promises that his people will return.

18:51

And many people, of course, the Jewish people would probably tend to see that as a return from the exile in Babylonia, Persia.

18:59

But, you know, I don't wanna get too deep into theology, but the bottom line is the Zionist movement, what's really interesting to me is how few Jews supported it.

19:11

They didn't want to be isolated and alone.

19:15

In fact, I would argue a lot of American Jewry, now, this is very controversial, okay? And I apologize if I'm offensive, but they just wanna be left alone.

19:24

They don't wanna be God's chosen people.

19:26

They don't particularly, they wanna go out and make money and enjoy the good life like the rest of us, okay? They don't wanna have this burden following them.

19:34

And it's interesting because Chaim Weizmann, who would work with Theodor Heisel would reach out and they would find allies in the Church of England and German pietism.

19:48

You know, a lot of people forget the Prussians were a very devout people.

19:52

And in fact, the Nazis, well, you talk about being controversial, even marched into battle with God is with us on their belt buckles as a remnant of that former Christianity, the strength of the Lutheran Church, if you will.

20:03

But it's in America, uniquely the Protestants are going to take up the cause of Zionism because American families averaging 8.5 children each, and I have one of those 0.5s, I can tell you.

20:16

They're going to relate to the heroes of the Bible.

20:21

They're going to see at a time of a neoclassical revival, you know, our buildings in Washington are all based on Greek Roman buildings, which makes no sense when it's raining in winter here.

20:29

But, you know, they want to relate to this pre-Renaissance culture.

20:36

They see themselves as providentially driven by God and likewise, they feel a kinship with the Jews through the Bible, perhaps even more than Jews did.

20:45

And so America is going to begin, you know, really we'll start with Woodrow Wilson, Louis Brandeis, the first Jew on the Supreme Court, works Wilson at Versailles.

20:56

And when those borders get drawn all over the Middle East, those nice lines on the map, separating the Caliphs, the three empire states of the Turks, the Arabs, and the Persians, Iran, and that's really the heart of the problem, drawing these lines.

21:10

And America is going to be deeply involved and of course, Harry Truman is going to miraculously be there to sign for the state of Israel's creation.

21:19

And this is a miracle because the Soviet Union and one of the only times I know of at the height of the Cold War agreed with the US and immediately retracted his position, but it was too late.

21:28

So Israel's creation is miraculous.

21:30

And the folks like me, and I suspect you, John, we see God's hand in this.

21:34

So there is an element of religious fervor.

21:37

So these Jews come in, they're immediately attacked.

21:41

They win naturally, as they always do, because they're masters of time and space, diplomacy and all these things.

21:47

I can go into greater detail as you wish.

21:49

But America is almost like, you know, tied with them in this experience emotionally.

21:58

And so it's a fascinating development and that's really how we got there.

22:02

Now, the Palestinians really represent, I believe, to not just the Arab, but the Islamic world, really a crusader element of outsiders who have dared to penetrate the sacred space that is Islam.

22:20

And it's hard for us to understand this.

22:22

In Operation Desert Shield, Desert Saber, Desert Storm, 1990, 91, I was pulling my hair out, okay? Fortunately, I have a little bit still left.

22:31

But because we were leaving our boot marks in the land of the sacred, and this came back to hit us on 9-11 when, what was it, 16 of 19 of the hijackers were Saudis, are our sensible allies.

22:44

When you desecrate that holy of holies, that sacred space, think of the Jewish temple, the three doors, as I understand it, the way, the truth, and the light.

22:51

Jesus said, I'm the way, the truth, and the light.

22:53

To get to that holy of holies, that intercessor where the veil would be torn when he was crucified, to violate sacred ground by drawing lines on maps has created a centrifugal effect against these three empire states because of Zionism, which at its heart, I would argue, is very deeply ingrained in the American experience.

23:11

The American experience, and would you say the British experience as well, or uniquely American? British, the British actually started it.

23:18

That's what I thought.

23:19

The British started it, but you know, and this is an interesting thing, I'm just gonna throw this out there for your audience, just to chew on, I'm not saying I agree, I'm not smart enough to understand this, but the Jews show up in empires at amazing times throughout history.

23:33

And again, I'm somewhat of a providentialist, but it's always at the decline of an empire, they exercise power, it seems like, right there at the time, and then they step to the next one.

23:44

And the British Empire, you know, the Rothschilds would be the first Jewish family to be united.

23:49

They're gonna actually, the British are gonna find themselves so indebted, that's what brings about the Balfour Declaration you mentioned in 1917.

23:56

They're broke, and the nations of the world have always been indebted and broke to Jewish people.

24:02

It's fascinating.

24:03

So God has used this, I think, in an amazing way.

24:07

So as the British Empire began to decline, they could no longer support their empire after 1948, the year Israel's created, the US steps in.

24:15

And I would argue that's the apogee of our global power.

24:19

Okay, yeah, okay, interesting.

24:22

So British and American help, and we still give, I think, if I'm not mistaken, Israel is still the country we give more foreign aid to, maybe Ukraine's eclipsed that, I'm not sure, than any other country, militarily.

24:35

I don't know if you'd have the stats on that or no.

24:37

I do know that in terms of the Iron Dome, I believe it's 38 billion I saw between 2019 and 28 we've given them.

24:47

And of course, we're writing checks now, like there's no tomorrow.

24:50

Right, right.

24:51

There may be no tomorrow, so we're writing checks.

24:54

But, you know, so that 38 billion for the Iron Dome alone, and it's interesting, you know, at times we've threatened to cut off aid, for example, when the Israelis in the early 60s developed a nuclear bomb.

25:07

A lot of people didn't know about this.

25:09

John F.

25:09

Kennedy was trying to stop them from nuclear development, but they were going to go their own way.

25:14

Even those years, they continue to receive massive sums.

25:17

So, you know, I'm a big supporter of Israel.

25:20

You know, I believe God will bless those who bless them.

25:22

That's just my truth and disclosure where I'm coming from.

25:25

But yeah, they're a major recipient of American funding.

25:27

So this, so theologically, since we have stepped into that a little bit, I know Christians are very much in disagreement with one another, depending on, I think, their eschatological position.

25:40

And some, I would say, more covenantal, and especially more post-millennial Christians, it seems like they trend, and there's exceptions to this, obviously, but they trend in thinking that there's really no significance to the nation state of Israel.

25:59

We should not, the church, obviously, is the true Israel of God, and so there's nothing significant here.

26:06

And then the more dispensational Christians and pre-millennial Christians tend to see this as, this is a fulfillment of prophecy in some way, or will lead to it.

26:18

The question I guess I have, and it sounds like you're in that latter camp, is, does that affect, or should that affect, in your opinion, foreign policy? Or is that even inescapable? Because it seems like, for the Muslims, for, you're saying the Americans too, in a sense, and for the Jews, there's a religious element with all three of the positions that we've historically taken here.

26:44

So is there any way to take that out of the equation, or not? Because this will get into a Tuesday solution, I guess.

26:53

Yeah, I really don't think you can.

26:56

I think clarity demands that we see the situation for what it is, and the religious element.

27:05

I will say this.

27:06

I think Americans oftentimes confuse domestic politics and our perspectives of dealing with our Jewish friends here with Israel.

27:18

Israel, you know, really was created largely by young men who survived the Holocaust, because the women and children didn't survive.

27:28

The Jews have gone from one place to the other.

27:32

I mentioned the providential aspects of the rise and fall of nations, but look at just the persecution factor.

27:38

So when they came into the empty area of Palestine with the decline of the Ottoman Empire, and that's really key to understand this.

27:46

The Ottomans had taxed their people out of existence.

27:50

Really, Palestine was absentee landlordism.

27:54

What you're gonna see with the Zionist movement and the return of affections, especially after the Holocaust towards Israel, to my mind at least, is an eschatological fulfillment, which is a great encouragement, will always be a political factor.

28:13

But to my mind, at least, this is just my opinion, American foreign policy should be dedicated towards achieving the ends of security for the American constitution foremost, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

28:28

To the extent that we can save any of those, I'm all about that.

28:34

I particularly am not drawn into, well, this is a democracy in the Middle East, so.

28:39

I mean, the tyranny of the mob is proverbial.

28:43

I mean, the mob had Jesus crucified.

28:45

I mean, that democracy is not my primary concern.

28:48

My primary concern is the security of my children and grandchildren.

28:52

I believe that's what God put me here to do.

28:54

But we're all gonna vote our thoughts and opinions, and it's gonna manifest itself.

28:58

Domestic policies are gonna manifest itself in foreign policy on an equal footing.

29:04

So as we see the world, if we're suddenly gripped in the fear of climate change, that's gonna affect how we see the outside world.

29:13

But that's just my sense.

29:14

So yes, religion cannot be divided out of this equation, and especially from an Islamic standpoint.

29:20

The reason that Persians, John, if I'm talking too much, I'm sorry.

29:24

No, no, no, please.

29:25

It's nice to have an audience.

29:26

Out here on the farm, I get very few that don't have four legs.

29:31

But the key to my mind, at least, is understanding why Persia entered this fight, and Persia is behind this fight.

29:40

Right.

29:40

Persia entered this fight because they do not want the Arabs and Israel coming together.

29:45

Iran specifically, right? Exactly.

29:48

Their eschatology is that they wanna bring Jesus back too, but they can only do it by fighting the infidel.

29:53

Spilling blood, I would argue.

29:54

That's just my interpretation, okay? But the Turks are another player in this region, okay? And the Turks left a legacy of ruling over the Arabs.

30:03

So the one thing that brings these people together, and tell me this isn't incredibly providential, is the state of Israel.

30:11

It's a constant reminder of the infidel's presence in their sacred space.

30:16

I would argue at the root of the regional psychology.

30:20

So yes, religion.

30:22

I'm with you, I think, and I have a premillennial mindset.

30:28

I look at, it's hard for me to get around, and obviously this isn't chapter and verse, but some of the incredible, just, they couldn't be coincidences.

30:39

Like things that happen to bring about the state of Israel.

30:42

And then they're in the Six-Day War, and then in 1973, what they did in defeating their enemies is just incredible, like miraculous, right? They flew at 30 feet in three-minute intervals off the ground, dropping cluster bombs on Egyptian airports.

31:00

I mean, you talk about space and time, but yes, sir, I interrupted.

31:03

Yeah, no, I'm glad you said that.

31:05

I watched some of the, History Channel did a dogfight series years ago on, I think it was in 1973, and just some of the stories.

31:13

I'm like, how does one Jewish aircraft take down seven MiGs? Like it's just, it's insane.

31:19

But the thing that I think I really resonated with what you just said is that America should be concerned primarily about American foreign policy.

31:28

So when people do bring up, as you said, it's our greatest ally, it's a democracy of the Middle East, it's fulfillment of prophecy, whatever.

31:37

I just think like, well, I feel the same way I feel about Ukraine and Russia.

31:43

Like maybe personally I'll support, I'll give aid to a side, not to help them, but to help the humanitarian, so quote-unquote efforts.

31:52

But I just don't want my government getting involved in something that doesn't seem to be really our fight.

31:58

And that I think would transcend eschatology for Christians that, in fact, I found out, maybe you know more about this, that some of our weapons that we've been giving to Ukraine have wound up in the hands of Hamas, and they're using them against Israel.

32:11

It's just, it's a mess what we've done.

32:13

That's just, that's my opinion.

32:14

But I don't know if you care to comment on that or you wanna, it's a little controversial.

32:19

No, you said something that resonated with me though.

32:24

So from the, you know, I'm much more comfortable talking about Griswold's Corps in Bougainville in the Southwest Pacific World War II.

32:35

So this again is Al-Sadma forte.

32:37

But using the Battle of Arbella as an example, again, what Alexander the Great did is he hit the Persians with one line.

32:45

That forced them to respond.

32:48

Then as they were responding, he hit with the next line.

32:50

They had to respond to that on the offensive while he held ground, kind of like the Union at Gettysburg, forcing Lee to come to them.

32:57

Then he hit with another echelon in succession.

33:01

To me, and my greatest fear is that the Pax Americana, the global peace that America has ensured for the last half century or so, is similar, and everybody talks about the Roman Empire, similar to the barbarians hitting the Romans, the Pax Romana.

33:21

There's a point where the line gets overwhelmed, and Ukraine is the first shoe to drop.

33:28

Then the greater Middle East and Iran, and smart money's starting to see this now.

33:33

Watch Korea heat up.

33:36

The ultimate prize is Taiwan.

33:37

You know, Sun Tzu said that, and this is a gross paraphrase, but if you see smoke and fire of battle, you see a failed plan.

33:45

The Chinese see a fight as a failure.

33:48

They intend to win without firing a shot.

33:50

They're smarter than we are.

33:51

They have a longer history, therefore they can move more methodically.

33:54

We are an emotional people who respond quickly to events.

33:58

Remember 9-11, Osama bin Laden wanted us to come to war in the Middle East.

34:01

Why? To unite the caliphate, to pull those empire states, the Turks, the Persians, I keep coming back to this, and the Arabs together.

34:10

They wanted us to do that.

34:11

This is what they want us to do now.

34:13

But you know, the great thing about knowing God is we can wait on him.

34:19

And we can, and like you said, I believe it was Palmerston or Gladstone, I forget which of the British prime ministers, who said the British empire does not have permanent alliances, it has permanent interests.

34:28

Our interests in the Middle East should be directed towards using time and space like the Israelis have modeled for us since the beginning of time, towards the end of assuring the constitution is protected.

34:38

There's a bigger fight ahead of us.

34:41

Yeah, I sense that.

34:42

I think a lot of people sense that too, especially with China.

34:46

So what would be, it's a mess obviously, but what would be the ideal? Because right now, if you go on social media, you're gonna see, especially on Twitter, you're gonna see one group of people highlighting all the horrible things Israel's doing to Palestine.

35:02

And they'll show the bombed out rubble.

35:04

And I mean, it looks horrific.

35:07

There's a video circulating right now.

35:09

And in the fog of war, I don't know if I trust any of these, but it's supposedly Israel soldiers, Israeli soldiers killing three Palestinian men and then planting guns on them as if they were fighting when they weren't.

35:22

And so there's things like that that are causing outrage.

35:24

But then obviously on the other side, you have yesterday, there was a story going around.

35:28

I didn't see any video evidence, but of them killing, I don't know where they went, into a maternity ward and killed 40 infants.

35:36

The Palestinians did this to the Jews.

35:38

So you have this, it's irreconcilable, it seems.

35:44

If you were a diplomat that had to go in and try to bring about a peace, I mean, is there anything that can be done, or is it just one side's going to win and we have to step back and let it happen? I think, unfortunately, we're reaching a point where the language reflects what, I believe his name was O'Connell at UVA in the 80s wrote, reflects inter-specific war.

36:07

Like the war in the Pacific.

36:09

Once you start to call the enemy animals, you dehumanize them, then you can slaughter them.

36:14

And once the slaughter starts, and you know how that ended up in the Pacific War.

36:18

That's right.

36:19

Finished with nuclear weapons.

36:22

I think the greatest thing we can do, and this sounds corny and canned, but true Christians know it's true, is pray for the peace of Jerusalem.

36:29

Recognize evil for what it is.

36:31

Maybe we could start securing our own border.

36:35

Maybe the intelligence services, okay, which the only thing they've definitively claimed is that Hunter Biden's laptop was Russian disinformation.

36:43

Maybe those same people who missed 9-11, the same people who have not seen so many, they didn't see Russia going into Ukraine apparently.

36:52

Maybe we could brush up our intelligence services and clean house there a little bit.

36:57

But really what I would do, I think to the greatest extent possible, is pull back and within the confines of what we can actually afford without depleting our own coffers even further, and the bad news is we are broke, is support good versus evil.

37:14

Learn that once again, there is evil.

37:17

I believe we've raised generations of kids who don't know the difference.

37:19

They don't know the difference between a man and a woman.

37:21

They don't know the difference between being broke and being rich.

37:23

I mean, this postmodern relativism is the true enemy.

37:28

And while this is Israel's fight, Persia's gonna have to be contained.

37:33

I keep saying Persia because it's not just Iran.

37:37

Persia goes from Herat, Afghanistan, all the way down through Syria historically.

37:42

And that's where Hezbollah now is opening the Northern Front.

37:46

They have to be contained like Korean War.

37:50

Okay, hold them on the defensive.

37:52

John, these folks will fight amongst themselves if they don't have someone to fight.

37:57

The one thing that's unifying them right now is their hatred of Israel and the great Satan in the US.

38:04

So time is on our side.

38:06

We are waiting expectantly for our savior to return over Jerusalem, I believe.

38:10

And the enemy knows it too.

38:12

And the enemy is broadcasting propaganda through the airwaves to the fighters.

38:17

So we wanna be on the side of the angels.

38:20

Yeah, okay, so that is a religious motivation then in part, at least.

38:27

It's a side with Israel.

38:29

I'm assuming that's what you're saying.

38:30

Can you imagine, John, can you imagine if Iran had atomic weapons? It would be pretty horrifying.

38:36

Yeah, because they would use them.

38:38

I mean, they believe this would bring back, this would be Armageddon.

38:41

They want that.

38:42

Would they actually nuke the, I don't know enough, would they nuke their own Holy Land at this? Yeah, a lot of people have said they wouldn't hit.

38:49

I don't think they will.

38:50

And because in the Bible, we know that Jerusalem is gonna be restored.

38:53

So I don't think it's gonna be totally obliterated.

38:57

But I don't think they'd hesitate to use it on the great Satan or the little Satan.

39:02

Just a note for the viewers out there right now, since we are almost at 40 minutes right now, if you have questions, I know there's a lot of comments that have come in and I'm looking through them, but if you have questions for Professor Rob Ritchie, please put them in now, questions specifically.

39:19

I know everyone's got an opinion, but questions are the best.

39:22

You mentioned something earlier, Professor Ritchie, about the intelligence services.

39:28

One of the questions that I've had, and maybe it's too early, but some people were wondering, why in the world did Israel not see this coming? This was a huge coordinated effort against them.

39:40

I talked to a friend of mine who had worked with IDF intelligence, and he said, well, they probably did know something, but they didn't know everything.

39:47

They probably thought it was smaller than the scale.

39:50

And even that is somewhat hard to believe.

39:52

But if that's true, it just reinforces in my mind, we gotta seal our own border.

39:56

Because if a guerrilla group in a country or close to a country can do this, inflict this damage, in a modern age, when we have modern surveillance, I mean, that's just terrifying.

40:08

So, I mean, do you think that they knew that this was coming and using this as a justification to go in, or what do you think, or do you have an opinion? If this is as coordinated between Russia, China, and Iran, as it's starting to look like it is, we're gonna be in trouble with that border.

40:25

And this intelligence failure, Daniel Bolger, he's a Lieutenant General down in North Carolina, believes at NC State, said in one of his books, he said, intel is like someone who tells you the license plate number of the car that just ran over you.

40:39

And you wanna go, well, why didn't you tell me it was gonna hit me? Well, they never know that, okay? But the truth is, one of the greatest enemies to the military man, and this is why they're true professionals, and I'm seeing a lot of this, and it's chilling, because I know what I'm seeing.

40:56

They're not getting emotional.

40:58

You watch your real professionals, they're cold as cucumbers right now, and that's what's really making the hair stand up on my neck.

41:06

That's what makes me think we've entered the realm of the interspecific in a big way.

41:13

But I think the greatest enemy of intelligence is this predisposition, or the predisposition to reinforce a supposition.

41:23

In other words, they're not able to openly see good and evil anymore.

41:27

The moral relativism has blinded them to the point where they see what they want to see.

41:31

And that's an awfully easy thing to do in the military.

41:34

Nobody wants to believe anybody's gonna decapitate babies.

41:36

I mean, that just goes against the grain to even say it in America.

41:42

And so that can't be right.

41:44

That's a classic phenomenon that we fall into, that trap.

41:49

Surely the Japanese aren't gonna hit us on December 7th, 1941.

41:53

I mean, they're too far out in the ocean to hit us, because that's what you want to believe.

41:59

And so I'm afraid that that mindset, and I believe a lot of Jews have fallen for this in Israel, this relativism.

42:06

Well, the Bible's just that guide, and good and evil.

42:09

Who's to say? It's a temptation to teach that in academia.

42:14

We're safe behind our keyboard in our climate-controlled offices.

42:17

It's easy for me to sit here and wax strong about war and what the nature of conflict is.

42:22

Get out there in the cold, in the mud, in the rain, and go hungry for a few weeks, and you get a different perspective.

42:29

Unfortunately, the decision-makers have become somewhat soft in their palaces, I would argue, and that moral relativism is, again, the true enemy to Intel as well as everyone else.

42:40

Yeah, good word.

42:42

Here's one question.

42:43

This is from John Carter.

42:45

Israel is not, so he gives his opinion first.

42:47

Israel is not even an ally of ours.

42:49

There is not and never has been any treaty or alliance between the USA and Israel.

42:53

And what conflict have they ever assisted us in? So I guess the question is, in what sense are they an ally? I don't know if you said they were an ally, but a lot of people certainly do.

43:04

I don't know where to go with that.

43:06

They're a friend.

43:07

I think they're a friend, and of course, a lot of people will go back to the USS Liberty in 67, getting bombed by them.

43:13

There's a lot of somewhat, I hate to use the word conspiracy thinking because that's what you do to discredit people now, and I'm not doing that, but there's a lot of conspiracy thinking around the Liberty attack.

43:22

The bottom line is Israel's gonna do what Israel has to do.

43:25

This is Israel's fight, but by gosh, we sure the heck need to take care of ourselves here.

43:30

We need to seal our border.

43:31

We need to know what's going on in Iran.

43:34

Who's running the show in DC? I mean, we really need to start looking in the mirror here.

43:39

Where is all this funding? You mentioned Ukrainian weapons.

43:42

So where is this funding going? I don't think anybody even knows.

43:46

So the question is taken at face value, whether there is a legal treaty or not.

43:56

Regardless, there's certainly an emotional tie, and American Jews have a lot of political power.

44:01

Good for them, and many of them are friends of Israel.

44:04

The Christian community, we're friends of Israel in large measure.

44:08

I give a lot of money to Israel.

44:10

Not a lot, but for me, it's a lot.

44:13

To evangelization or humanitarian efforts or that kind of thing? All the above.

44:18

We tend to support them.

44:21

Like I said, domestic politics reflects itself in foreign affairs.

44:25

Here's another question.

44:27

I mean, you brought up like three things I wanna talk about, but maybe they'll come up in the questions because the Liberty thing certainly does come up a lot.

44:33

All right, here's from Robert Sparkman.

44:36

Dr.

44:36

Ritchie, do you think that the US government response to Hamas will be hindered by the neo-Marxists in governmental and military positions? So I don't know if there will be a, have we decided whether there's a US government response to Hamas? I didn't think we had.

44:51

Let me go take my address off the wall real quick here before I comment on this one.

44:57

Yeah, I would actually argue the dialectic, the materialists, BLM, many of the squad.

45:07

I mean, you're seeing there's a lot of people who are very sympathetic for this post-colonial view of an oppressed people who've been marginalized, who these drawn lines.

45:17

I kind of started off talking with you about that, John, and you kind of looked at me like, what's he talking about? But what's that have to do with it? That drawing lines on the map and deciding who gets to go where.

45:28

That use of foreign capital.

45:30

I think a lot of people who have felt oppressed, cheated, or put it an unfair advantage.

45:38

I'm the son of an immigrant.

45:39

I understand these feelings.

45:42

That somehow they can relate to the Palestinian cause.

45:45

So does that answer that? I think we do see that, that dialectic, that us versus them, rich versus poor.

45:54

If you look at it from a feminist perspective, men versus women, that type of Hegelian dialectic worldview, I think does lend itself to many people sympathizing with Palestine.

46:05

Yes, sir.

46:06

Yeah, it's interesting because the American left seems to be completely split on this because so many influential Jewish people are in leftist politics and on the board of the New York Times and all that.

46:17

But then you have your sort of, I guess there's a class difference.

46:21

You have your more social justice warrior types in BLM, and they're all pro-Palestinian on university campuses.

46:28

And it's an interesting dynamic.

46:32

And you can see it on the headlines of the Jerusalem Post.

46:34

I mean, if you go there on any given day, you'll see the anguish.

46:37

And they've actually had their government come to a standstill relatively recently between these various viewpoints.

46:42

Yes, sir.

46:43

Yeah, wow.

46:44

All right, so here's another question.

46:46

Okay, this person does not mean to be contentious with a picture of Medusa in their profile picture.

46:52

So I don't know what that means.

46:53

But what is Dr.

46:55

Ritchie's view on the Israelis who spit on Christians? Please help me square the circle here.

47:01

And you may be aware of this, but there was a video a few days ago going around on social media of some Jewish people spitting on Christians in Israel.

47:10

And when Christians see this, I think they feel very slighted.

47:13

Like, look, we've done a lot.

47:15

We've given you a lot of money, at least through our government and sometimes personally.

47:20

And to be treated that way by some Jews, obviously it's not all, just feels like a rejection.

47:27

And so what's your view on that? I grew up in a Jewish neighborhood as a kid, again, because I came from an immigrant family.

47:39

I think we ended up in this neighborhood.

47:41

I think there was a reason for that.

47:44

And I mean, I remember these kids while I'm playing with G.I.

47:49

Joes, they're shaving and getting ready for medical school.

47:53

I mean, that's not much of an exaggeration.

47:55

And I remember sometimes I would say something to them and they'd look at me like, you poor contemptuous barbarian, you know.

48:01

The bottom line is that it's simple.

48:07

And I'm a hypocrite, okay? I taught a class of prisoners the other night about the importance of keeping your temper.

48:11

And I immediately left and I lost my temper with my brother.

48:15

So I'm a hypocrite.

48:17

But when people wanna spit on you for being a Christian, you really should consider it a glory.

48:21

A glory.

48:22

I mean, we're gonna be rewarded for that.

48:24

That's what we're all about.

48:25

That's the difference between us in Islam and Judaism is that we have a hope in an eternity, not on the basis of anything we do.

48:34

And when we're persecuted for our faith, boy, great is our reward in heaven.

48:40

Now that's easy for idiot boy to say here talking to you.

48:43

Okay, I'm not sure I follow that very well, but that's.

48:47

Yeah.

48:48

I think it's to be expected.

48:49

I think when it comes to foreign policy, that's where I see some younger Christians, especially my age and younger, becoming less enthusiastic about support for Israel.

49:00

Some of them even just wanting to cut all funding and cut all ties because of things like that.

49:07

And of course there's a multiplicity.

49:09

It's not just that one thing, but I guess that's probably where the question's coming from.

49:16

And also, and John, God loves the Jews just because there's a new covenant doesn't mean the old covenant's necessarily gone.

49:22

I don't think there is.

49:23

I think there'll be a remnant of Jews who come to Zion, be a very few who are gonna survive what's coming according to my eschatology.

49:32

But the bottom line is that God loves them and it is our duty to love people.

49:38

We don't have to like them.

49:41

But really that is the essence of our Christianity.

49:43

And when you ask, what should we do? I think that's the real challenge before us, as Gentiles who are under the table trying to get the scraps.

49:51

Well, one of the questions, and I think I know the answer already.

49:54

It's probably quick.

49:55

Does the professor believe that Jews have a mode of salvation outside of Christ? So I think I know what you're gonna say.

50:01

I'm gonna say a few might get in, but it's gonna be such a few that it's infinitesimally small and that's if they come to know the Lord, I think throughout the tribulation, otherwise no.

50:15

But wouldn't that still be in Christ? Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

50:18

You could argue that, yes, sir.

50:20

Okay, so yeah, that wouldn't be outside of Christ.

50:22

So there's no Jewish people there.

50:23

I'm a big fan, for example, of Ben Shapiro.

50:27

Ben Shapiro doesn't call for that.

50:29

I take notes.

50:30

Yeah, but he needs to receive Christ in order to go to heaven.

50:36

Okay, here's another question for you.

50:38

John, ask your guest what ought the Israeli military to do right now? Okay, you mentioned urban warfare.

50:45

What's the best strategy here? To use the parlance of American military doctrine today, they need to secure the various domains.

50:54

And by that, I mean, they begin to start in the realm of space and cyber, okay? And this is where the US comes in with spy satellite technologies.

51:04

Who knows what Elon Musk has up his sleeve these days.

51:07

They need to track and systematically cut off the head of the serpent, find the key leadership, and do it in a manner that no one knows when or where they're gonna hit next.

51:18

Nobody's better at a Rus or a diversion than the Israelis.

51:23

In fact, the Mossad's, its motto is make war with Russes.

51:28

I believe that's Proverbs 14, eight, if memory serves.

51:30

It usually doesn't.

51:32

They are gonna have to secure the cyber, come through hitting, just like at Arbelo, with direct denial of services, advanced persistent threat, cyber attacks, while entering into other people's information tracking.

51:49

And that probably includes the US government, okay, if we're asleep at the wheel.

51:53

Then they're gonna move in the sea.

51:56

Now, the ocean is where, you'll notice we move carriers in.

51:59

Israel historically has never been a naval power.

52:03

They've always been trapped between those Phoenician Sea Peoples.

52:06

And on the other side of the 10 inches of rain, the Midianites, the Edomites, these nomads in the interior, they're always trapped from North and South between empires.

52:15

So using Russes and diversions, taking out the cyber domain, space, intelligence, and then they're gonna have to start systematically.

52:27

They'll probably occupy Gaza.

52:29

They'll probably level it, fill in the tunnels.

52:32

This is gonna be brutal.

52:34

Hopefully, Hezbollah will not start anything too quickly.

52:37

They're already starting to cap off some rounds to the North around Mount Hermon and Dan there, the ancient area of Dan.

52:44

And then they're gonna have to hit Iran.

52:48

According to editorials I'm seeing in the Jerusalem Post, that's coming.

52:52

How they do it in tandem with this nuclear enrichment, I think they've reached 60% or something, an amazing amount just during the last administration.

53:02

Otherwise, in terms of ground warfare, once they've secured Gaza and their border to the North, I don't see, outside of striking the head of the serpent in Iran, much for them.

53:14

And they're gonna have to do this slowly so that they don't ignite global conflagration and jihad.

53:20

Once you unite those Turks, Shiites, Sunnis, Arabs, and Persians, you bring them together, man, this is gonna be rock and roll.

53:30

Well, this flows into what you just said.

53:32

Dr.

53:33

Ritchie, do you believe Israel will attack Iran soon? You said you think they'll have to.

53:38

Do you think it'll be soon? I hope not.

53:40

I hope they'll take their time.

53:41

And that's what the Israelis can do well.

53:43

The longer you wait to pull the trigger, the more chance the enemy will make a mistake and reveal themselves, okay? What they'll do, I suspect, are ruses.

53:52

If the past is a indication of the future, they will make strikes, moves, so that the enemy eventually will get used to it and start getting sloppy and start maybe coming on the internet and broadcasting signals that can be picked up and so forth so that they can find and systematically attack.

54:11

But that'll take time.

54:13

And again, the Israelis are the best at that.

54:15

The problem's gonna be America.

54:17

We're such an emotionally quick-driven frontier people with such a limited past.

54:22

We want everything to be done this week so we can change the channel.

54:26

No, we wanna move on to our next feelings, okay? I mean, give us two weeks, America will be bored with it.

54:31

Look at Ukraine, what, 18 months is typical for American public to get bored with a conflict.

54:36

So if Israel's smart, they'll take their time, buy their time, but they'll hit hard.

54:41

And I think from what I'm seeing, that's what they're gonna do.

54:44

Yeah, yeah, it seems like this has been coming for a while and they've already have what they need to make it happen, but the opportunity hasn't maybe presented itself and now maybe that is happening.

54:59

Man, there's so many, do you have more time? I told you that we wouldn't probably go beyond 45 minutes and we're at 55.

55:05

So if we go another five minutes, if anyone has questions, I know a lot of comments are coming in, but ask a question.

55:11

If I see that question mark, I'm more likely to go to the comments there.

55:16

Let's see here.

55:19

Here's a question from April Martin.

55:21

I understand Gaza started this, but isn't Israel carrying this too far by wanting to level Gaza? We're all God's people.

55:28

How can God approve of Israel killing innocent children, women, and elderly? So that's a question I know a lot of Christians are asking right now.

55:37

What's the proper response to terrorism? Is it to go after innocents? Well, I think as Christians who enjoy the fruits of a Christian foundation, I agree, but I can tell you this, it's very easy to fall into the trap.

55:53

And this goes back to the intelligence failings of thinking that human nature is rational.

55:57

Human beings are irrational.

55:59

Once people do irrational deeds like murder innocent people, people tend to respond in time in kind, irrationally.

56:08

Now, whether that's good or not, I won't arbitrate that.

56:14

As a former warrior, I would argue that once the fight starts, the objective is to kill the enemy before he can kill you.

56:24

So, you know, I've been in sporting events where the audience just goes hysterical, loses his mind.

56:31

We saw the riots of a few years ago.

56:34

People who otherwise wouldn't act out suddenly do.

56:38

So human nature is irrational and Americans don't have a very long memory.

56:42

We don't remember what happened to the Native Americans.

56:45

I mean, once a people start going hunting for good or bad, it, and I mean hunting as if in slaying animals, especially in the Middle East, that's a tough neighborhood.

57:00

In fact, I would even argue Islam, that's what my fear is, they're fueled by conflict.

57:05

This will cause them to centrifugally pull together, whereas otherwise they would fight amongst themselves.

57:11

So I think as Christians, yes, we should turn the other cheek and we should love people.

57:15

We should defend ourselves and our children.

57:17

We should defend our borders.

57:20

But I do think that we have to be willing to support friends and friends who have our best interests at heart.

57:28

And to the extent that that diverges and we don't.

57:31

Yeah.

57:32

Okay, here, man, there's so many questions coming in.

57:34

Let me just, we'll start in order here.

57:37

How do you, how do we rather preserve historical knowledge and truth if this regime doesn't collapse for 70 years? I'm wondering what they're talking.

57:46

They must be talking about the United States.

57:48

So I don't think this is an Israeli question and you're a historian.

57:52

So I guess, how do you preserve historical knowledge to be passed down? This is kind of unrelated.

57:58

Well, actually it's a very interesting topic.

58:01

Now, when I was last involved in gathering history actively, the biggest challenge, and you can see this with the email scandals that the president's going through, trying to collect electronic data before it's destroyed or lost, or before a new language comes along, which makes it obsolete.

58:20

This is gonna be a real challenge for the future.

58:25

And I think that we're gonna have to speak in broad strokes like we have today.

58:29

I started off apologizing because this is not my area of expertise by any means.

58:34

And yet I don't think we can be intimidated by not knowing the entire picture.

58:38

You can spend your entire life studying today and you'll never know it.

58:42

So the ability to speak with wisdom, which is the godly application of truth, I think we should be able to boldly stand and confront the giant that is ignorance and do so confidently.

58:53

And yet when a caller comes in with a great point or question that contradicts what I have to say, I have to be willing to adjust to that new idea.

59:00

So how do we preserve knowledge in the future? I think we continue to rely on that which worked in the past and it starts with the scriptures.

59:11

All right.

59:12

Can the US support Israel in spirit without actually sending military aid? So it's actually a question I have too.

59:20

I don't know what support in spirit would mean though.

59:22

I mean, I- Well, the first thing people are suggesting is we go back to the old Iran-Iraq war, 80 to 88, 89, 80 to 88, and look at Karg Island.

59:32

This is where the Persians, Iran, are exporting massive amounts of oil suddenly.

59:37

You know, under the current administration, they've gotten a green light and some tenfold increase in oil production.

59:43

So that's what's helping pay for a lot of the training and coordination we've seen in Israel.

59:49

The United States still has the ability to control the world's oceans.

59:54

We have the greatest fleet in the world.

59:56

I think that the closest one to ours is still woefully behind.

01:00:01

We talked about the cyber domain, the space domains.

01:00:04

There's a lot of things we can do to help Israel offset their numeric disadvantage.

01:00:11

Okay.

01:00:12

Okay, how do you negotiate with Hamas? They want all Jews living in Israel dead.

01:00:18

So I think you've kind of maybe touched on this already.

01:00:21

No, well, that, you know, I don't mean to sound, I don't mean to sound trite, but it's not our problem.

01:00:25

It's Israel's, and Israel can handle it.

01:00:27

Yeah.

01:00:29

Someone asked, is it that Israel doesn't care about civilian targets, or that civilians are counter-instructed by Hamas not to evacuate when warned by Israel? So Israel announces we're going to strike this area, get out, because, you know, Hamas will put guns on top of a hospital building or something, and then the people don't get out.

01:00:52

So is it, I guess that's what he's saying.

01:00:54

Is it really Israel targeting civilians, or is it just they're targeting military targets, but civilians aren't evacuating the area? I don't know, but I can tell you this.

01:01:05

If the Jews committed suicide in gross numbers rather than surrender to Titus's legions at Masada, was it 70 AD? I mean, this is going to be ugly.

01:01:17

This is going to be bad.

01:01:18

It's heartbreaking.

01:01:19

You know, even a jerk like me who makes a living, okay, describing war and writing about conflict and serving in the military, and, you know, I've served in three branches.

01:01:29

I'm grateful for the checks they send me.

01:01:32

I got to tell you, we're seeing glimpses of hell unleashed, and I'm afraid it could be a harbinger of the end times to come.

01:01:42

This is, it's going to be, it's going to be rough.

01:01:44

And I don't know if the problem is that people don't have bunkers they can go to, if the, apparently the government's just abysmal in Gaza in terms of equipping the people for safety and so forth.

01:01:58

But I can tell you if 2nd Fallujah, I believe it was 2004, is any of the U.S.

01:02:05

Marines and army in Iraq, is any indication of what modern urban combat is going to look like.

01:02:10

The tanks were used there as snipers.

01:02:12

I mean, we just pummeled the place.

01:02:15

So it's going to be rough.

01:02:18

Here's another question.

01:02:19

Where in the world are civilians in Gaza supposed to flee to? So there's the population density is so great there.

01:02:25

Where do they go when Israel says get out? Yeah, and that's part of the problem of supporting in your midst the people who embark on murder.

01:02:36

You know, when Osama bin Laden wrote his justification for the attack on the U.S., you know, he said that you all are guilty for what your government has done.

01:02:47

I'm not equating Osama bin Laden with justice, okay? I'm just simply saying that this is why we need borders.

01:02:54

This is why we have a military, why you take ugly guys like me and send them off to undesirable places for decades.

01:03:01

The American public has lost track of the fact that in humanity's basic core is a desire to survive.

01:03:08

And once the switch gets flipped, you know, the great thing about being saved as a Christian is we have one foot in reality and we have one foot in the spiritual realm.

01:03:18

You know, we can be sensitive to the leading of the Holy Spirit, and yet we're still serving like on a 3D chessboard.

01:03:24

A fallen realm, accursed people.

01:03:27

I hear the questions from this.

01:03:30

This is the second question from that, obviously astute listener you have, John.

01:03:34

It's a terrible, terrible situation.

01:03:36

And there's only certain limits the United States can conduct itself within here.

01:03:40

This is Israeli's fight.

01:03:42

They've been attacked, they've been killed, they've been murdered.

01:03:45

And this goes back thousands of years.

01:03:47

This goes back to Ishmael and Isaac.

01:03:49

I mean, this hatred.

01:03:52

Yeah, now I apologize in advance.

01:03:55

We have another theological question.

01:03:57

I know that I add you on to talk about the military end of this, but for $10, John Carter has a follow-up question he wanted to ask you.

01:04:06

He says, there's no Jew nor Greek within Christendom, but the Jews who explicitly reject Christ have a special measure of affection and preservation from God and have a legitimate claim to blood.

01:04:16

Oh, he's asking this in a question form.

01:04:18

Basically, do they have a legitimate claim to blood and soil? So to the land of Israel, why would you say that they have, I don't know if you even said they had a legitimate claim, but I think you implied it to that region if the gospel has eliminated those distinctions between Jew and Greek.

01:04:38

I support them.

01:04:40

I think this was providential.

01:04:42

I don't think the United States created Israel.

01:04:44

We may have gone to the UN.

01:04:46

We may have helped create the UN.

01:04:48

We may have won the war, but this is too much bigger for anybody to think through.

01:04:52

I mean, when Harry Truman recognized Israel, George Marshall was ready to resign.

01:04:57

He was furious.

01:04:58

And George Marshall was the army general who arguably could be said to have won World War II.

01:05:04

And this was providential.

01:05:05

So I do believe that Jesus was a Jew, that he was the fulfillment of the scripture.

01:05:13

I do believe that God has loved his people since Abraham.

01:05:17

He made a promise to Abraham.

01:05:20

He's made a comeback.

01:05:21

I think Jesus was the embodiment and fulfillment of the scriptures.

01:05:24

So I don't know if that's theological, but I'm not saying that, and I think it's our duty as Christians to love them as God loves them.

01:05:34

That doesn't mean we endorse everything they do.

01:05:37

Yeah, even Paul in Romans 9 and 11, I mean, I think almost all eschatology, I can't say the word, eschatological physicians include people who believe that when Paul talks about the promises for Israel, ethnic Israel, that is fulfilled in a time in which they will be saved.

01:05:59

At least 144,000 of them will be saved.

01:06:03

And then I think it says all of Israel will be saved.

01:06:05

So that isn't given to any other ethnic group on the earth.

01:06:10

And I think even post-millennial and amillennial people, as far as I know- And John, can you tell me any other group whose ethnic heritage can go back a couple thousand years who have a nation state today? I mean, look at the Assyrians.

01:06:26

Who are they? The Kurds.

01:06:27

They don't have a state.

01:06:28

I mean, it's just, it's just fascinating.

01:06:30

Not even China, because I mean, they were scattered amongst the earth and they didn't integrate.

01:06:36

They kept their in-group preference and came back to the land.

01:06:39

It's an incredible story that has not been replicated.

01:06:43

Okay, last question, because we have already imposed enough on your time, but I will say, Professor Ritchie, I have more people streaming now than I think I've ever had on a podcast.

01:06:54

Usually thousands of people will come back and listen to these podcasts, but I don't usually get more than 300 people streaming.

01:06:59

And we have about 430 people streaming right now, listening to what you're saying.

01:07:05

So let's do this last question here.

01:07:08

Oh, there's two.

01:07:10

All right, can I do two? Two is okay? Okay.

01:07:12

That's all right with you, Dr.

01:07:14

Ritchie.

01:07:14

Dr.

01:07:14

Ritchie, do you see antisemitism rising soon as pictures start coming out of Gaza, destruction? So hatred for Israel, I think is what they're talking about.

01:07:24

Yes, I do.

01:07:25

And, you know, the bottom line is, Jesus, we know where he's coming back.

01:07:31

And if we know that, Satan knows it.

01:07:34

And from a Manichean worldview, good versus evil dualism, which in turn comes from Persia, okay, ultimately.

01:07:42

We know that the battleground is being shaped.

01:07:45

The fight we have before us is in our hearts.

01:07:49

Do we trust God? If a shepherd boy could pick up five stones when he only needed one to kill a giant, when all the other men were falling away, we can face the horrors that are coming and see good for what it is and evil for what it is and recognize our own limitations, but know where our hope comes from.

01:08:06

Okay, our hope is coming back and eventually we'll all be redeemed.

01:08:10

All we have to do right now is make individual choices to love one another, to stand strong and have faith, even though it looks like it's all going the other direction.

01:08:21

That's the best thing I can say at this point, Mr.

01:08:23

Harris.

01:08:24

Okay, all right.

01:08:25

The other question wasn't actually a question for you.

01:08:28

So I think we're gonna end it on that note.

01:08:30

If anyone out there is curious about studying military history or history in general, I would just encourage you to go to Liberty University and you can find actually Dr.

01:08:41

Ritchie's page there and you can get his book, A History of Warfare in the Greater Middle East, if you wanna understand this conflict better.

01:08:49

But I just recommend it.

01:08:51

I went through the history department there and I worked with Dr.

01:08:54

Ritchie for at least one semester and enjoyed my time there.

01:08:58

And so I just highly recommend it.

01:08:59

Dr.

01:09:00

Ritchie, thank you so much.

01:09:01

I appreciate it.

01:09:02

Well, thank you very much.

01:09:03

And it's a privilege to work for the Liberty University History Department, but no way do my views necessarily reflect theirs.

01:09:09

It's a great department.

01:09:10

I hope all of you will consider going to them if you have any future questions or comments.

01:09:14

All right.

01:09:14

Thank you, sir.

01:09:15

God bless.