Debate After Show, 4/14/2022, Slick v Martin

There we go.

So this is the after show and I don't know if anybody's going to come in

because I made it a quick announcement before or after the at the end of the debate and

I put the information up on let me verify it up on the karm website.

So it should be good and Let me

look right there.

Jesse Marie said what just Marie Carm M.

Hey, how you two doing?

I'm gonna do this.

Hold on.

Let's see make sure everything's right.

Good.

All right.

Good.

Good.

Good.

All right, if you guys want to come in here, I'll put in the.

I'll put in the.

The link for stream guard.

Come on in you can talk.

I Should I'm thinking next time I do an after show.

I'm gonna do it on On

Not Skype, oh man.

Oh Crud.

Oh Man.

I use it all the time, too.

And I asked AJ question who are the ones that didn't come to Jesus in John 665.

Okay clubhouse.

Hey Matt not clubhouse.

Zoom gosh, I had to focus talk about total depravity.

So what do you guys think you want to come on in here and give me some feedback that's fine if not, that's okay.

Tell me what you thought the debate.

I thought it went.

Well, I thought in my opinion is a couple points where he Stumbled I at that's what I believe.

The idea of Jesus free will being in subjection to the sovereignty of God.

He had free will that's compatibilism and also the counterfactuals Contra -causals

that are eternally under the decree of God in a revelatory sense being in place.

So that's what I think there's Amy Jamie welcome.

Hey Matt.

Hey.

This is unbelievable.

What I've I've never done this before.

What talked.

Talk to you.

Oh talk to me.

Hey not that big a deal.

I'm just.

My wife's not impressed.

She talks to me.

She kind of avoids me, you know, it's what it's normal man.

It's a big deal to me.

I've looked up to you for years.

Well, how tall are you?

Five seven.

There you go.

I'm six feet.

That's why that's why right?

That's right.

So what did you watch the debate?

Yeah, I seen part of it.

I was I was cleaning so I couldn't watch the full thing, but I seen part of it.

It was pretty good.

Yeah, I thought it was good.

Yeah, I thought he was kind of Kind of use at the time and my cross -examination by going into long

things.

I had to step in several times.

No, no, no.

No, no.

Yeah.

Yeah, I thought that but.

So doesn't JD did I limit atonement.

I think he does.

He kind of said he was in and out of it.

But I'd like to have a discussion with him on that show the logic of it.

But anyway, no big deal.

That is six feet.

I didn't imagine six feet.

Yeah I am.

Yeah, I'm the short one in my family.

I have two younger brothers and they're both taller than me and bigger and heavier.

Oh, yeah, I'm the small one and I'm six feet tall at 215 pounds.

Yeah.

My dad was 6 '4".

Wow.

Yeah, that's where you got it from.

Yeah, that's all right, though.

Whoops.

So, what do you think?

You're gonna put the URL in.

There is solid.

That's a good height for a woman.

I.

Need to get my dad on here.

He would be.

Wow, he'd be blown away.

I.

Dropped something there.

I got it.

All right.

Huh.

JD seems like a low Calvin Calvinist light would be the way to

say it.

All right.

Hey, come on.

Come on in.

Let's get some conversation going.

I thought JD was great.

I thought he was real nice guy.

You know, he's a good guy loves the Lord and before the he wanted to pray usually I introduced the idea of prayer, but he

jumped on it and prayed, you know and Good man, so praise God, you know,

praise God.

Alright, so give me some feedback or we talked about something or I can go on to clubhouse for a while.

Do some teaching Q &A?

JD seems like a little Calvinist.

Every time I a guy says his height always minus at least three inches.

No, I really am six feet tall.

So there I'll put the camera on and stand back there if you want.

Not related to it good Martin.

All right.

Yeah, you wouldn't know about six feet anyway.

Okay.

Hey, man, Tyler.

Yeah.

All right.

Go ahead.

You could say my dad's name Dustin Stein.

Justin what?

Justin.

Dustin Stein.

Dustin Stein.

Fine with an M.

Yeah Justin mine Stein fine.

Yeah with an M.

Sorry Justin.

Justin dime Dustin with a duster.

Yeah.

Dustin time.

Okay.

Thank you.

There you go.

All right, I Just I want I wanted to show him that so.

Good.

Sorry.

I messed up the name wasn't on purpose.

Because I have a hearing loss.

So Blew my ears out when I was younger.

Carm videos, what do you think of my name.

Martin Luther was a Catholic?

He was then he became a believer a Christian.

Okay, so there's a video if there's a link you guys want to come in.

Somebody popped in and popped right back out.

Hey, just curious know any feedback if you guys have any comments or questions about the encounter that JD

and I had.

So Matt, what do you think about pastor John MacArthur?

I didn't understand the question.

What do I think about what?

Pastor John MacArthur.

Oh.

He's great.

I don't get with everything he says, but he's great.

Yeah.

Hey Tyler.

Hey, how are you?

I'm fine.

How are you?

I'm doing pretty well.

I'm just enjoying the scenic view of LA traffic.

What freeway are you on?

I am on 118 now.

Oh the 118, okay.

Yeah, I used to live in Riverside.

I've lived in I used to live in Bellflower off of 91 lived in Buena Park off of 91,

you know.

No.

Near the 15 and in Escondido.

Yeah.

That's right.

I've been down in San Diego.

So what are you doing?

Like let's see.

It's probably seven o 'clock.

She's probably doing what 40 miles an hour.

It you know, it's it's crept up now to about 55.

So, okay.

I'm all right reason for LA.

Okay.

Hit north or south or and now actually Northwest.

All right.

There you go.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's right, I enjoyed I caught the tail end of discussion on part of my commute home.

And yeah, I'm I'm sure I don't sound great.

So I just have a question and I'll switch back to YouTube and I'd love to hear your answer and That

is in in acts 2 4 I don't hear a lot of people address it very much even though

we bring it up pretty regularly.

I'm sure you're very familiar of the argument from there.

About the the the you know The determinate plan of God the forward nation of God for knowledge of God for them to do what they did.

But there's a clause that we don't bring up very often.

Which is it says it's by the hand of God in Acts 4 that they did what they did.

And then in the very next verse it actually says because he's praying and it's it's by the hand of God that he would heal.

That God would heal those Those who needed the healing.

I don't remember the exact the exact phrasing.

But that by the hand is used twice and one of them it's very clearly causally direct.

But when we're talking about what Pilate and the and Herod and the Jews did it's by you know The the forward nation of God and by his

hand.

That they did what they did.

It's causal.

So my question I guess for you.

I don't know if you've heard any better.

It's more it was more directed at JD, but I'd love your thoughts is what.

Kind of conceptual value that clause adds right if JD's reading is right.

And the other libertarians reading is right that it's just oh well by his knowledge you know and by.

You know it kind of all it.

He allowed it as part of his his plan.

And so it just kind of works out according to plan, but he's not doing anything.

I'm just wondering if you've heard or you kind of know how they'd answer because I don't ever really get a good answer.

What conceptual value is added by the active statement of by his hand in

in that context.

Does that question make sense?

Yeah, actually you got me thinking about.

I've never even considered that before because in verse 28 to do whatever your hand and your Purpose

predestined to occur and then two verses later While you extend your hand to heal

so whatever your hand your purpose predestined to occur and now Lord take note of their threats and Grant that your

bondservant may speak your word with all confidence.

While you're while you extend your hand to heal and signs and wonders take place.

You know that's interesting wonder.

Makes me want to do a study on the word hand to see how it's used.

Because that word second one is five four nine five Five four so they're both like it.

You're just cognates in Greek, okay?

So.

I'm curious.

I haven't done a full extensive study, but from I did a thematic study once and as far

as I remember Whenever something is by the hand of an agent, especially by God.

It's always it's always seen as the agent is is the is the cause of the outcome.

And so I mean just like we would think that by God's hand healing it's a miraculous cause the outcome and I and I've always wondered because

sandwich in there is You know grant that your servants be courageous or bold or however, that's that's

translated and I and I also wonder there.

Well, I mean it's aren't we praying that God directly acts to bring about to engender courage

that does something Causally upon the heart of the Apostle at that point to be you know brave and

courageous.

But clearly.

If they're brave and courageous Like it just it just seems like a Compatibilism sandwich to me like

God is causal by his hand before caused by his hand after and we have this kind of compatibilistic.

You know Peter should be brave.

He is brave, but he's also praying for God to make him brave, right?

So just you know, it just it just seems like this little sandwich of compatibilism there.

Anyways, I'll jump in.

Thank you for everything you do.

I appreciate it.

Yeah, I agree with you.

In fact, you got me curious not only to look at the word hand which occurs 177 times just word care but now

I looked up the phrase your hand and It occurs in

x4 28 x4 30.

And while you extend your hand to heal, that's 430 work with your hands.

The heavens are the work of your hands interesting.

Your hands your hand and your purpose the hands about what you do.

That's interesting.

I'm gonna check it out.

It's got me a little bit of curiosity there of What that would mean and how it

might aid in understanding the text better.

Your hand and your purpose predestined to occur, which I'm I'm Curious about in the

text When it says your hand and your purpose predestined to occur

that phrase is a little bit interesting to me and When I look at it

As you get back to it Yeah.

To do whatever your hand and your purpose predestined to occur so Purpose is not

cognitive in the sense that it can do predestining.

God predestines.

So it's your purpose Predestined so it's a looks like it's a predestined purpose now.

Some might come back and say as the open theist do they'll say God Predestines a general

and the particulars work out, but that's problematic very problematic.

But to do whatever Henry, I don't know.

I'm gonna think about that.

I gotta think about that.

So that's that's uh, That's good stuff.

It's interesting.

Appreciate it Taylor.

So, yeah.

Anybody else want to have any comments?

I thought the two things in the in the debate that I thought were worth focusing on

was When I asked him about You know, God knows all things eternally.

So therefore his knowledge is static.

Doesn't increase or decrease.

Therefore his decrees don't increase or decrease or already static.

And since God knows all things actual as well as potential.

And when before the creation of the world all things were potential he brought into a set of existence one set of actualities.

Which means that all choices that exist exist because God ordained that they exist and any

counterfactuals are chosen not to exist.

And so God would matter what the counterfactuals might be the contra causal.

Those are all under the sovereign plan of God whether it would occur not occur.

And I think that that demonstrates compatibilism because it means in the causative sense that God brings about certain

Actualities and those actualities necessitate our free will choices within those and he brings them to bear.

I Think it's consistent.

I don't know if that made sense to you guys, but it That's what I brought out.

I think he I either didn't understand his response or he stumbled in trying to respond to it.

I don't think you had thought about that.

That was one thing.

So you guys can comment on that if you want and I'll talk about the Jesus free will thing.

Which I thought was another point.

But then if you want to get in here again James you

still there Jamie you still there buddy?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sorry.

I'm just listening.

It's alright.

It's okay.

We got 21 people 23 people now watching and I just put the stream yard link

in if you want to come in all you got to do is click on or put that link into a browser and Come in.

You'll need your microphone to talk and You know a camera if you've got it if you want it,

but a microphone at the very least so.

Matt what does it mean when you say God is sovereign?

That he has the right and the ability to do with ever his creation as he desires.

Okay. Thank you.

Okay.

Bible J.

I'm looking at.

How come that doesn't work get into this?

All right.

Question one more.

What about his Bizarre claim that his view is what Calvin and Westminster divines meant.

You know, I don't I don't know if that is or is what it isn't.

I Don't read them.

I don't study them.

I just don't.

I'm writing to scripture and I'm not saying I understand scripture better.

Those guys were brilliant, but I don't know what the position was.

So if you just said what do you think of that view?

I don't know what the view is.

I haven't studied the context.

I can't comment on it.

That's all I would have said.

You know had a question for you in debate, but Marla didn't see it.

What is the difference between God and the devil from a moral standpoint?

God can only do good the devil could only do bad.

Okay, how about that?

That's one way of looking at it.

Okay.

Okay, well anyone.

No, I've heard the

GDC that he believes in some determinism, but not totally determinism.

It all depends on definitions.

Any of you guys go on?

Clubhouse at all.

Clubhouse is Clubhouse you can go on your phone.

Just download download clubhouse.

It's a chat thing.

Pretty simple.

I use club deck which is for computers and I like to go in there and Go into

rooms and people started saying hey man, what about this about that and you got to answer questions for a while.

50s grew up in California 50s.

What does that mean?

You were you were you were in your 50s or the 1950s?

I grew up in California in the 60s 70s.

80s 90s.

Yeah.

Somebody's name is Martin Luther was a Catholic.

Yeah, well he was a Catholic and then he became a Christian.

Yeah, then he became a Christian.

Wow.

It's true.

He was a Catholic.

That's right.

And then he became a Christian.

No, that's what I say, I think you should block karma

M as people might confuse them with you I Think that's that's a real name.

Karma is a real name.

I Can't block if that's a real name Carbages I asked humbled clay on his age.

Oh, he's in his 50s.

I am 65 years old.

I Cannot believe I'm 65.

I don't look 65.

No, you don't look 65.

Yeah, I don't I don't look it.

I'd say maybe 40s.

Now you're talking.

You're my friend now.

Yeah.

You see my wife when she's on camera when she Lets me show her on camera.

She looks 20 years younger than what she is to she's 63.

She's very photogenic.

She's photogenic.

I'm not you know, I Think I'm the shorter one the smaller one and

both my brothers are bigger and better -looking.

That's for sure at least you got the height.

No, they're higher than me.

They're taller than me.

They're bigger than me.

They're stronger than me and they're both better -looking and Yeah.

My fact one of my brothers was asked to be in commercials by a Hollywood guy goes man.

Blonde hair blue -eyed all that.

I look like a doofus.

So what it is, you know.

It's alright.

Why are you suggest you get blocked?

Aha.

Karma's trying to protect Matt.

That's all.

See what's your karma what's your real name?

It's Carmen Carmela or I forgot.

What is it?

Karma's just a short for something right

Car.

Yeah, Carmen.

Yeah.

Thanks, Bill.

Do you look a day over 64 years and 365 days?

Yes.

Look at good Carmen okay.

There you go.

Carmen.

Yeah, that'd be weird.

You know if I had to get married again My wife was suddenly her name was Carmen.

Whoa.

That would be a head twister.

Oh So, okay.

Okay.

So how many heard the debate?

Type of one if you heard the debate or why for yes, either one if on your phone driving I don't want

you to do too much.

Yeah, I'm here enough to ask questions about it.

Okay, and what'd you think of the debate?

You know just that's all then maybe I'll close it out and go into clubhouse and do some teaching for a half hour

and.

So Martin did Ray did.

Well, what'd you think karm did?

Humble clay did just Marie said to witness edge wick did.

Are you guys?

Excuse me karm, but are you karmites?

Of the car calling her CM or something

karm videos, I'm flying in a plane.

Oh Okay,

it was super good you were always so good at the beach butter man, I learned a lot thank you a Syrian born -again.

Oh, that sounds cool.

Assyrian born -again, I like that a Syrian so tell me about yourself a Syrian

born -again.

Syrian born -again, so You are you guys from a Syria?

Is that a good question?

And what languages you speak?

I like different languages.

So I just enjoy them.

So Ellie van oenen Said it was great.

Roy Ray LaGrange senior is a slickster.

Bill says guilty as charged.

Nina or Nina?

Nina, I'll be Nina.

Yeah.

Oh that reminds me.

Oh.

Man, now, what's your favorite thing to debate about?

Limited tolmach or my favorite Adidio Christ Trinity.

Yeah, I'm gonna get on the Trinity.

Thank you.

Well,

she's

a Calvinist.

Saved in 2010.

Well, she speaks four languages.

Whoa, really?

What languages?

Aramaic air Arabic Greek and English.

No way.

Yeah.

Oh.

There she is up there.

Oh, man, I have to be her friend right.

Wow.

Aramaic Arabic Greek and English.

Wow.

Man, I would like that.

That'd be nice to know her.

Married for 11 years have four beautiful children.

Praise God.

I think one of my children Calvin.

Calvin lol.

Oh, damn Calvin.

Lol.

What does that mean?

Calvin lol.

And another Syria.

Oh Syria that's nice.

I Used to know a girl named Aline.

I always thought that was a nice name.

Aline.

Oh, it is Aline.

Yeah, and my wife's name is Anik.

Yeah, it means little and and it's just she speaks French and so I said, you know I'm pretty good at Spanish

and one of our daughters speaks Japanese so.

Wow, it is up you from being best friends, but the karma videos that stop stops you

At carbun.

It stops you from being best friends with Samson when I feel like you guys can work well with each other.

Now Sam's moving into heresy.

Sorry, but he is Beautiful brother Matt beautiful brother.

So my brothers are beautiful.

I'm for your French.

No, I'm German.

It's slick.

There's a shortened version of schlichteen Schlichteen, that's how you pronounce it.

Shh that sound schlichteen.

I'm German, too.

Yeah.

On us.

What does Connors mean?

Well, that's that's my Hispanic last name from my mom's side.

My dad's German

typing something to somebody.

Okay, Matt needs

to have another debate about the Trinity.

Those are good.

I like that.

Yeah.

Yeah, I like teaching on the Trinity because they always think they got you and then and then you just

Hit him with the Bible and it's over.

Yeah, they you know, that's right.

Let's talk next week.

Okay,

good almost done

Charismatic or else.

I don't know.

Okay.

Good.

Okay.

Good matter.

You cares medic or cessationist?

I am a non cessationist, but I'm not charismatic.

I don't practice any of the gifts but exegetically I'm not convinced that they're ceased.

I have prophesied once I've had a word of knowledge another time.

So That's not that what my basis is it's on on scripture, but I definitely affirm them.

Going again, you know, Sam Shimon Just you inside say what Matt is a cessation as they come.

I Believe in all the charismatic gifts I believe in fact if literally if somebody came over my house and we're talking they go

Hey, we just pray and then he said to me you might have praying tongues.

I'd say go ahead.

I Don't care Rain tongues.

We're done.

I just keep praying.

I don't doesn't bother me.

I People believe that's wrong.

People believe it's wrong.

I don't I don't see anything in scripture that says it can't happen.

Yeah.

Yeah, I try and go with the scripture much as possible and That's what I believe it teaches.

That's my opinion.

I could be wrong, but that's my opinion.

Yeah, I got a daily fate radio show, but it's it's Declining let's just say I used to

be on 16 stations.

I'm only on six and I think it's because

Costs are going up and they the real network is Getting people who

can pay more in different markets.

And that's that's fair.

Yeah, Sam Shimon is he's moving into Harris.

He's becoming Eastern Orthodox and Or Syrian Orthodox now granted.

I don't too much don't know too much about a Syrian Orthodox, but From what I've understood about in my research. It's

very problematic.

It's a teary illogical issues.

Are you gonna have another debate with latent flowers?

I'd love to.

He's doing so much damage to the body of Christ.

Yeah, we need to set it up.

I need to get that's right.

Sam is moving towards Roman Catholicism.

His new heroes Robert said Janice a brother.

I think st. Genesis a flat earther.

Oh.

Yeah,

all right.

Well, I guess it's about it.

That's nothing really is happening here.

We're just reading text.

What do you think of the future Christianity in the West?

It'll continue to decline.

That's what I think.

Do you think there would be a revival rival?

You mean revival?

I don't know.

Do you think Russia will invade Finland and go for Israel?

If it does if it starts going for Israel.

That's what I'm gonna get nervous.

Because Let's see if I can find it.

Is that a prophecy.

Yes.

Let's see if I can find this.

Okay.

So what I'm gonna do.

Go to Genesis 1 type in Magog the sons of Japheth were Gomer and

Magog and Chronicles

Ezekiel son of man set your face towards Gog in the land of Magog the prince of Rosh

Meshach and Tubal and prophesied against him.

There's some I've heard when some commentators talk about Magog being an ancient root of Moscow

Rosh Rosh.

Ah, and so some think that Magog is geographically Russia.

When a thousand years are completed Satan will be released from his prison Revelation 20 verse 8 now and

will come out to see the nations where which are the four corners of the earth Gog and Magog.

To gather them for war numbers like the sound of the seas and the seashore.

So anyway, there's a possible interpretation of stuff that

Russia is.

One of the things I've heard some of the scholars I can't put it together and say it's verified or not is

that Russia is going to march in from the North and China from the east and they're going to march into

Israel to take a spoil.

I Don't think it's going to happen yet.

And the reason I don't think it's going to happen is because the spoil is.

There's nothing in in Israel to take.

Except for one thing and that's the minerals in the Dead Sea.

It is so rich.

There's trillions of dollars of minerals Suspended in the Dead Sea, but they can't really extract it

if they develop a means to extract the metals.

They could become one one of if not the richest country in the world and.

And I floated in the Dead Sea before so, you know, you know I'm six feet tall 215 pounds if

I were to just go in the water, you know pool.

Vertically the water Michael up to here this range, you know.

The Dead Sea it's up to here.

You actually are floating.

That's it.

It's that thick with stuff in it.

That it's up to up like this it's hard to stay vertical because you're the top he wants to move down

so there's a dam on the Euphrates River, which if Done

so whatever they do to it can divert the water away from the Euphrates River to another area.

Well, if that's the case, I've heard some commentators say that the Chinese army 200 million -man army from the east

would march up to the dried -up Euphrates River as it hens it heads into Israel and May God from the north.

That's why I'd be nervous if Russia started going into Israel, but yeah, because then if

China started mustering its and coming in.

Okay.

Here it is, you know.

Hunkered down get ready.

Okay, because what happens.

Israel defeats him.

Israel defeats him.

How Miraculous let me tell you get this.

I heard on a show I heard.

Was a Tom Snyder.

Tom Snyder back in the 70s, I think it was 70 early 80s.

Created six and a half gallons out of thin air.

Awesome.

Tom Snyder had a general on from the Israeli army in the Six -Day War.

A lot of you don't know what the Six -Day War is but you should look up the Six -Day War the Arabs came in to

destroy Israel.

Israel kicked their rears and gained a lot of land and then the.

Now they want it back.

Give us it back.

Give me back now.

You lost it more fair and square you attacked and then you know if they did gain the land.

They said yeah, it's ours.

We want it.

That's what they would have said.

But anyway, so.

Wow.

The average IQ in Israel 120.

Wow, I don't even know what mine is.

I'm gonna get mine measured so.

He said this general said That there was this one instance that two

instances that occurred that really struck out one was a

Army platoon or whatever.

It was a unit of some sort.

Wanted to outflank the enemy didn't know how to do it.

But they'd read how David in the Bible went through a certain passage land passage

and.

So he found that area and did what the Bible said and went through this passage and

outflanked the enemy because of it.

That's interesting.

But the other thing that I thought was really interesting was there was a tank crew.

That was about out of fuel out of water out of ammo.

And they were basically behind enemy lines.

Probably but they didn't know because the enemy lines and the you know logical and back and forth and battle skirmishes.

They didn't know where they were.

What they knew the enemy was that way and they knew that their home was way back that

way.

And they didn't have enough fuel to go way back.

They would have probably died in the desert of starvation and out of water thirsty.

So they were looking for the enemy to surrender to at least it have water and food.

That was their hope.

Wow.

And so they were looking for the enemy to surrender to.

There's an unusual circumstance, right?

Okay, I can see why that we're gonna die.

You know, we're too close, you know one mile from them and a hundred miles back this way, you know, so

they came up over a sand berm and they found the enemy and He

said they were all like 300 of them like two three hundred of them.

Standing on their knee or kneeling kneeling down with all their weapons in a pile and they're all all their hands were

behind their heads like this.

The Arabs are like they call the tank, you know, they're like

Drunk in a group on their knees with our hands behind their heads and their weapons another pile.

So they drove the tank down.

Made this enough fuel, you know drove the tank down and these guys are looking at them.

They don't do anything.

So these Israelis get out of the tank.

Looking around they aren't doing anything.

It's out of the tank they find a radio and they dial it in and the enemy radio and they dial it into their

frequency and They contact their guys.

Hey.

You know, they're just sitting there like this the whole time.

And so the Israelis come in and capture them.

Mm -hmm.

So When they were discussing this with the enemy, they said well, why'd you do what what and they said?

We heard the army.

Coming from over the the sand the army the sound of the army was so

great.

It was so huge so loud that we knew we would have no chance against

it.

So we surrendered before it even got here Wow, and there's one tank.

God's on their side.

Yeah.

Hey, man.

I wonder if the Antichrist is already here.

Well, if he if he is he's a Democrat.

Yeah on Biden staff, right.

Could it be a woman?

No.

Antichrist is a male.

Yeah, his desire will not be for women.

It'll be for men and He is repeatedly says he he he so it's a male

so all right you guys.

All right, Bible study.

I.

Think I'm gonna go to Clubhouse and just see what happens.

Okay.

All right you guys.

Let's go Brandon.

That's right.

All right, everybody.

God bless.

Hey, it was fun after show.

Talk to you later.

Thank you Matt.

Hey, man.

Nice talking to you me.