Debate After Show, 4/14/2022, Slick v Martin

There we go. So this is the after show. And I don't know if anybody's going to come in because I made it a quick announcement before or after the at the end of the debate.

And I put the information up on let me verify it up on the

CARM website. So it should be good. And let me look right there.

Jesse Marie Sedgwick, Jess Marie, CARM M. Hey, how are you two doing? I'm going to do this.

Hold on. Let's see. Make sure everything's right. Good. All right.

Good, good, good. All right. If you guys want to come in here, I'll put in the.

I'll put in the the link for StreamGuard. Come on in. You can talk. I should

I'm thinking next time I do an after show, I'm going to do it. On. On not

Skype. Oh, man. Oh, crud. Oh, man,

I use it all the time, too. And I asked you a question, who are the ones that didn't come to Jesus in John six sixty five?

OK, clubhouse. Hey, Matt, not clubhouse. Zoom. Gosh, I had to focus.

Talk about total depravity. So what do you guys think? You want to come on in here and give me some feedback?

That's fine. If not, that's OK. Tell me what you thought of the debate. I thought it went well. I thought, in my opinion, is a couple of points where he stumbled at.

That's what I believe. The idea of Jesus free will being in subjection to the sovereignty of God.

He had free will as compatibilism and also the counterfactuals, contra -causals that are eternally under the decree of God in a revelatory sense being in place.

So that's what I think. Amy, Jamie, welcome. Hey, Matt.

Hey. This is unbelievable. I can't believe I'm this is crazy.

What? I've I've never done this before. What? Talked?

Talk to you, Matt. Oh, talk to me. Hey, not that big a deal. I'm just my wife's not impressed.

She talks to me. She kind of avoids me. You know, it's what's normal. Man, it's a big deal to me.

I've looked up to you for years. Well, how tall are you? Five, seven. There you go.

I'm six feet. That's why. That's why. Right. That's right. So did you watch the debate?

Yeah, I seen part of it. I was I was cleaning, so I couldn't watch the full thing. But I seen part of it.

It was pretty good. Yeah, I thought it was good. Yeah, I thought he was kind of kind of used at the time in my cross examination by going into long things, had to step in several times.

No, no, no, no, no. Yeah. Yeah, I thought that. But so doesn't

J .D. deny limited atonement? I think he does. He kind of said he was in and out of it. But I'd like to have a discussion with him on that.

Show the logic of it. But anyway, no big deal. That is six feet.

I didn't imagine six feet. Yeah, I'm six feet tall. I am.

Yeah, I'm the short one in my family. I have two younger brothers and they're both taller than me and bigger and heavier.

Oh, yeah. I'm the small one. And I'm six feet tall at two hundred and fifteen pounds. Yeah, my dad was six four.

Wow. Yeah, that's where you got it from. Yeah, that's all right, though. Whoops.

So what do you think? You put the URL in there is solid. That's a good height for a woman.

I need to get my dad on here. He would be while he'd be blown away. There we go.

I dropped something there. I got it. All right. J .D. seems like a low

Calvin Calvinist light would be the way to say it.

All right. Hey, come on. Come on in. Let's get the conversation going. I thought J .D.

was great. I thought he was a real nice guy. You know, he's a good guy. Loves the Lord. And before the time he wanted to pray, usually

I introduced the idea of prayer, but he jumped on it and prayed, you know, and good man.

So praise God. You know, praise God. All right.

So give me some feedback or we talk about something or I can go on the clubhouse for a while and do some teaching

Q &A. J .D. seems like a low Calvinist. Every time I a guy says his height always minus at least three inches.

No, I really am six feet tall. So there I'll put the camera on and stand back there if you want.

I hope I'm not related to Martin. All right. Yeah, you wouldn't know about six feet anyway.

That's right. OK. Hey, man, Tyler. Yeah, all right.

Go ahead. You can say my dad's name, Dustin Stein. Justin, what? Justin, Dustin Stein, Dustin Stein.

Time with an M. Yeah. Justin, mine, Stein. Fine. Yeah.

With an M. Sorry, Justin. Justin. Dime. Dustin with a

D. Yeah, Dustin. Dime. OK, thank you.

There you go. All right. I just I want I want to just own that.

So good. Sorry, I messed up the name. What's the purpose? No, that was because I have a hearing loss.

So blew my ears out when I was younger. Karm videos, what do you think of my name?

Martin Luther was a Catholic. He was then he became a believer, a Christian. OK, so there's a video.

There's a link. Do I want to come in? Somebody popped in and popped right back out. Hey, just curious.

Know any feedback if you guys have any comments or questions about the encounter that J .D.

and I had. So, Matt, what do you think about Pastor John MacArthur?

I didn't understand the question. What do I think about what? Pastor John MacArthur. Oh, he's great.

I don't agree with everything he says, but he's great. Yeah. Hey, Tyler. Hey, how are you?

I'm fine. How are you? I'm doing pretty well. I'm just enjoying the scenic view of L .A.

traffic. What freeway are you on? I am on one eighteen now. Oh, the one eighteen.

OK. Yeah, I used to live in Riverside. I've lived in I used to live in Bellflower off of ninety one.

Lived in Buena Park off of ninety one, you know, and near the fifteen in Escondido.

Yeah, that's right. I've been down to San Diego. So what are you doing? Like, let's see. It's probably seven o 'clock.

You're probably doing what? 40 miles an hour. It's you know, it's it's crept up now to about fifty five.

So, OK. All right. Cruising through L .A. OK. You're heading north or south or?

I'm heading out actually northwest. All right. There you go. Yeah. Yeah, that's right.

I enjoyed I caught the tail end of discussion on part of my commute home. And I'm sure

I don't sound great. So I just have a question and I'll switch back to YouTube and I'd love to hear your answer. And that is in in Acts two and four.

I don't hear a lot of people address it very much, even though we bring it up pretty regularly. I'm sure you're very familiar of the argument from there about the the the, you know, the determinate plan of God, the foreign nation of God for knowledge of God, for them to do what they did.

But there's a clause that we don't bring up very often, which is it says it's by the hand of God in Acts four that they did what they did.

And then in the very next verse, it actually says it because he's praying. And it's it's by the hand of God that he would heal, that God would heal those those who needed the healing.

I don't remember the exact the exact phrasing, but that by the hand is used twice. And in one of them, it's very clearly causally direct.

But when we're talking about what Pilate and Herod and the Jews did, it's by the foreign nation of God and by his hand that they did what they did.

It's causal. So my question, I guess, for you, I don't know if you've heard any better. It's more is more directed at JD, but I'd love your thoughts.

Is what kind of conceptual value that clause adds, right?

If JD's reading is right and the other libertarians reading is right, that it's just, oh, well, by his knowledge, you know, and by, you know, it kind of all he allowed it as part of his his plan.

And so it just kind of works out according to plan. But he's not doing anything. I'm just wondering if you've heard or you kind of know how they'd answer, because I don't ever really get a good answer of what conceptual value is added by the active statement of by his hand in in that context.

Does that question make sense? Yeah, actually, you got me thinking about it. I've never even considered that before, because in verse twenty eight to do whatever your hand and your purpose predestined to occur.

And then two verses later, while you extend your hand to heal. So whatever your hand, your purpose predestined to occur.

And now, Lord, take note of their threats and grant that your bond servant may speak your word with all confidence while you're while you extend your hand to heal and signs of wonders take place.

You know, that's interesting. I wonder what makes me want to do a study on the word hand to see how it's used, because that word second one is five, four, nine, five, five, four, so they're both just cognates in Greek.

OK, so I got me curious. I haven't done a full extensive study, but from I did a thematic study once.

And as far as I remember, whenever something is by the hand of an agent, especially by God, it's always it's always seen as the agent is is the is the cause of the outcome.

And so, I mean, just like we would think that by God's hand healing, it's a miraculous cause of the outcome. And I've always wondered because sandwich in there is, you know, grant that your servants be courageous or bold or however that's that's translated.

And I also wonder there. Well, I mean, aren't we praying that God directly acts to bring about to engender courage that does something causally upon the heart of the apostle at that point to be brave and courageous?

But clearly, if they're brave and courageous, it's also they're being brave and courageous. Like it just it just seems like a compatibilism sandwich to me.

Like God is causal by his hand before, causal by his hand after. And we have this kind of compatibilistic, you know,

Peter should be brave. He is brave, but he's also praying for God to make him brave. Right. So just, you know, it just it just seems like this little sandwich of compatibilism there.

Anyways, I'll jump in. I agree. Thank you for everything you do. I appreciate it. Yeah, I agree with you.

In fact, you got me curious not only to look at the word hand, which occurs 177 times just toward care. But now

I looked up the phrase your hand and it occurs in Acts 428,

Acts 430. And while you extend your hand to heal, that's 430.

Work with your hands. The heavens are the work of your hands. Interesting. Your hands, your hand and your purpose.

The hands by what you do. That's interesting. I'm going to check it out. It's got me a little bit of curiosity there of what that would mean and how it might aid in understanding the text better.

Your hand and your purpose predestined to occur, which I'm I'm curious about in the text.

When it says your hand and your purpose predestined to occur, that phrase is a little bit interesting to me.

And when I look at it, as you get back to it. Yeah, to do whatever your hand and your purpose predestined to occur.

So purpose is not cognitive in the sense that it can do predestining. God predestines.

So it's your purpose predestined. So it looks like it's a predestined purpose.

Now, some might come back and say, as the open theist do, they'll say God predestines the general and the particulars work out.

But that's problematic. Very problematic. But to do whatever hand. I don't know. I'm going to think about that.

I'm going to think about that. So that's that's. That's good stuff. It's interesting. Appreciate it, Taylor.

So, yeah. Anybody else want to have any comments? I thought the two things in the in the debate that I thought were worth focusing on was when

I asked him about, you know, God knows all things eternally. So therefore, his knowledge is static, doesn't increase or decrease.

Therefore, his decrees don't increase or decrease. They're all already static. And since God knows all things, actual as well as potential.

And when before the creation of the world, all things were potential. He brought into a set of existence one set of actualities, which means that all choices that exist exist because God ordained that they exist and any counterfactuals are chosen not to exist.

And so God, no matter what the counterfactuals might be, the contra -causal, those are all under the sovereign plan of God, whether it would occur or not occur.

And I think that that demonstrates compatibilism, because it means in the causative sense that God brings about certain actualities and those actualities necessitate our free will choices within those.

And he brings them to bear. I think it's consistent. I don't know if that made sense to you guys, but that's what

I brought out. I think he I either didn't understand his response or he stumbled in trying to respond to it.

I don't think he thought about that. That was one thing. So you guys can comment on that if you want. And I'll talk about the

Jesus free will thing, which I thought was another point. But then if you want to get in here again,

James, you still there, Jamie, you still there, buddy? Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, I'm just listening. It's all right.

It's OK. We got 21 people, 23 people now watching. And I just put the

StreamYard link in. If you want to come in, all you got to do is click on or put that link into a browser. And come in, you'll need your microphone to talk.

And, you know, a camera if you've got it, if you want it, but a microphone at the very least. So. Matt, what does it mean when you say

God is sovereign? That he has the right and the ability to do whatever his creation as he desires.

OK, thank you. OK. I will say

I'm looking at how come that doesn't work, get into this. All right.

Question one more. What about his bizarre claim that his view is what

Calvin and Westminster divines meant? You know, I don't I don't know if that is or is what it isn't.

I don't read them. I don't study them. I just don't. I'm writing the scripture. And I'm not saying

I understand scripture better. Those guys were brilliant. But I don't know what the position was. So if you said, what do you think of that view?

I don't know what the view is. I haven't studied the context. I can't comment on it. That's all I would have said. You know,

I had a question for you in the debate, but Marlon didn't see it. What is the difference between God and the devil from a moral standpoint?

God can only do good. The devil can only do bad. OK, how about that? That's one way of looking at it.

OK. Oh, OK. Well, anyone?

No, I've heard the

GDC that he believes in some determinism, but not totally determinism. It all depends on definitions. OK.

Any of you guys go on Clubhouse at all? Clubhouse is

Clubhouse. You can go on your phone, just download Clubhouse. It's a chat thing. Pretty simple.

I use Club Deck, which is for computers. And I like to go in there and go into rooms and people start saying,

Hey, man, what about this? What about that? And you got to answer questions for a while. Fifties grew up in California fifties.

What does that mean? You were you were you were in your fifties or the 1950s. I grew up in California in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s.

Yeah. Somebody's name is Martin Luther was a Catholic. Yeah, well, he was a

Catholic and then he became a Christian. Yeah. Then he became a Christian. Wow.

It's true. He was a Catholic. That's right. And then he became a Christian. Yeah. Yeah. That's what

I say. I think you should block Karm M as people might confuse them with you.

I think that's a real name. Karm is a real name. I can't block if that's a real name.

Karm Bages, I asked Humboldt Clay on his age. He's in his fifties. I am 65 years old.

I cannot believe I'm 65. I don't look 65. No, you don't look 65. Yeah, I don't.

I don't look it. I'd say maybe forties. Now you're talking.

You're my friend now. You see my wife when she's on camera, when she lets me show her on camera.

She looks 20 years younger than what she is, too. She's 63. She's very photogenic. She's photogenic.

I'm not. I'm the shorter one, the smaller one, and both my brothers are bigger and better looking.

That's for sure. At least you got the height. Oh, they're higher than me. They're taller than me.

They're bigger than me. They're stronger than me. And they're both better looking. And yeah, because in fact, one of my brothers was asked to be in commercials by a

Hollywood guy. He goes, man, you need to be a commercial, dude. Blonde hair, blue eyed, all that. I look like a doofus.

So what it is, you know. It's all right. Why are you suggest you get blocked?

Carm M is trying to protect Matt. That's all. See what's your car?

What's your real name? It's Carmella or I forgot. What is it? Carm is just a short for something.

Right. Carm M. Yeah, Carm M. Yeah, thanks,

Bill. Do you look a day over 64 years and three or four days? Yes.

Look, I'm good. Carmen. OK, there you go, Carmen.

Yeah, that'd be weird, you know, if I had to get married again. My wife was suddenly her name was Carm. Whoa.

That would be a head twister. Oh, so.

OK. OK, so how many heard the debate? Type of one, if you heard the debate or why?

For yes, either one. If you're on your phone driving, I don't want you to have to do too much. Yeah, I didn't hear enough to ask questions about it.

OK. And what do you think of the debate? You know, just that's all.

Then maybe I'll close it out and go into clubhouse and do some teaching for a half hour or so.

Martin did. Ray did. Well, what'd you think? Carm did. Humboldt Clay did.

Jess Murray said Sedgwick did. Are you guys excuse me,

Carm, but are you Carmites? Of the car, calling her

CM or something. Carm videos,

I'm flying a plane. Oh, OK. It was super good.

You were always so good at debate, brother, man. I learned a lot. Thank you. A Syrian born again. Oh, that sounds cool.

A Syrian born again. I like that. A Syrian. So tell me about yourself. A Syrian born again.

A Syrian born again. So you are, I guess, from a

Syria. Is that a good question? And what languages do you speak? I like different languages, so I just enjoy them.

So Ellie Van Oenen said it was great. Ray Lagrange, senior is a slickster.

Bill says guilty as charged. Nina or Nina? Probably Nina. Probably Nina.

Yeah. Oh, that reminds me. Oh, man. Now, what's your favorite thing to debate about?

Limited to one of my favorite. The deity of Christ, Trinity. Yeah, he doesn't get on the

Trinity. Thank you. All right.

Well, she's a Calvinist who was saved in 2010.

Well, she speaks four languages. Whoa, really? What languages?

Aramaic, Arabic, Greek and English. No way. Yeah. Oh, there she is up there.

Oh, man. I ought to be her friend. All right. Wow. Aramaic, Arabic, Greek and English.

Wow. Man, I would like that. That'd be nice to know her. Married for 11 years. Have four beautiful children.

Praise God. I need one of my children, Calvin. Calvin, lol. Oh, damn, Calvin, lol. What does that mean?

Calvin, lol. And another Assyria. Oh, Assyria. That's nice.

I used to know a girl named Aline. I always thought that was a nice name, Aline.

Aline. Aline, yeah. And my wife's name is Anique. That's French. Yeah, it means little

Anne. And it's just she speaks French. And so, you know, I'm pretty good at Spanish. And one of our daughters speaks

Japanese. So wow. It is up you from being best friends. But the

Karm videos that stop stops you at Karm videos stops you from being best friends with Sam Simone.

I feel like you guys can work well with each other. Now Sam's moving into heresy. Sorry, but he is.

Beautiful brother, man. Beautiful brother. So my brothers are beautiful. I'm your

French. No, I'm German. It's slick. There's a shortened version of Schlichtin.

Schlichtin, that's how you pronounce it. That sound Schlichtin. I'm German, too.

Yeah, yeah, I know. What does Connors mean? Well, that's that's my Hispanic last name from my mom's side.

My dad's German. OK. All right.

OK, I'm typing something to somebody. Let's see.

OK, OK, let's see.

That needs to have another debate about the Trinity. Those are good. I like that.

Yeah. Yeah, I like teaching on the Trinity because they always think they got you and then and then you just hit them with the

Bible and it's over. Yeah, they you know, that's right. Let's talk next week.

OK, good. OK, hold on, hold on.

Almost done. Charismatic or a cess?

I don't know. Oh, good. OK, good. Matt, are you charismatic or cessationist? I am a non cessationist, but I'm not charismatic.

I don't practice any of the gifts, but exegetically, I'm not convinced that they're ceased. I have prophesied once.

I've had a word of knowledge another time. So that's not what my basis is. It's on scripture, but I definitely affirm them.

Born again, you know, Sam Shimon, just as I said, Matt is a cessationist as they come.

I believe in all the charismatic gifts. I believe, in fact, if literally if someone came over my house and we're talking, they go, hey, we just pray.

And then he said to me, you might have praying tongues. I'd say, go ahead. I don't care. Praying tongues, we're done.

I just keep praying. Doesn't bother me. People believe that's wrong.

People believe it's wrong. I don't. I don't see anything in scripture that says it can't happen. Yeah. Yeah, I try and go with the scripture as much as possible.

And that's what I believe it teaches. That's my opinion. I could be wrong, but that's my opinion.

Yeah, I got a daily radio show, but it's it's declining. Let's just say

I used to be on 16 stations and I'm only on six. And I think it's because.

Costs are going up and the radio network is getting people who can pay more in different markets.

And that's that's fair. Yeah, Sam Shimon is he's moving into Harris.

He's becoming Eastern Orthodox. And or Syrian Orthodox. Now, granted,

I don't too much don't know too much about a Syrian Orthodox. But from what I've understood about it, my research, it's very problematic.

It's a theological issues. Are you going to have another debate with Leighton Flowers? I'd love to. He's doing so much damage to the body of Christ.

Yeah, we need to set it up. I need to get this right. Sam is moving towards Roman Catholicism. His new hero is Robert St.

Genesis, a brother. Yeah, I think

St. Genesis is a flat earther. Oh, man. Yeah, all right.

Well, I guess it's about it. Nothing really is happening here. We're just reading text. What do you think of the future of Christianity in the

West? It'll continue to decline. That's what I think. Do you think there would be a revival rival?

You mean revival? I don't know. Do you think Russia will invade Finland and go for Israel? If it does, if it starts going for Israel.

That's when I'm going to get nervous. Why? Because let's see if I can find it.

Is that a prophecy? Yes. All right. Let's see if I can find this.

OK. So what I'm going to do go to Genesis one type in Magog.

The sons of Japheth were Gomer and Magog and Chronicles.

Ezekiel, son of man, set your face towards Gog in the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh. Meshach and Tubal prophesied against him.

There's some I've heard some commentators talk about Magog being an ancient root of Moscow, Rosh, Russia.

And so some think that Magog is geographically Russia. When a thousand years are completed,

Satan will be released from his prison, Revelation 20, verse eight now, and will come out to see the nations where which are the four corners of the earth,

Gog and Magog, to gather them for war. Numbers like the center of the seas and the seashore.

So anyway, there's a possible interpretation of stuff that. Russia is is going to invade

Finland and go for Israel. One of the things I've heard some of the scholars, I can't put it together and say it's verified or not, is that Russia is going to march in from the north and China from the east.

And they're going to march into Israel to take a spoil. I don't think it's going to happen yet. And the reason

I don't think it's going to happen is because the spoil is there's nothing in Israel to take.

Except for one thing, and that's the minerals in the Dead Sea. It is so rich.

There's trillions of dollars of minerals suspended in the Dead Sea, but they can't really extract it.

If they develop a means to extract the metals, they could become one of, if not the richest country in the world.

And and I floated in the Dead Sea before. So, you know, you know,

I'm six feet tall, 215 pounds. If I were to just go in the water, you know, pool vertically, the water might go up to here, this range, you know, the

Dead Sea. It's up to here. You actually are floating. That's it. It's that thick with stuff in it that it's up like this.

It's hard to stay vertical because the top wants to move down. So there's a dam on the

Euphrates River, which if done so, whatever they do to it, can divert the water away from the

Euphrates River to another area. Well, if that's the case, I've heard some commentators say that the

Chinese army, 200 million man army from the east, would march up to the dried up Euphrates River as it heads into Israel and Magog from the north.

That's why I'd be nervous if Russia started going into Israel. But yeah, because then if China started mustering, it's coming in like,

OK. Here it is. You know, hunker down, get ready,

OK? Because what happens? Israel defeats them. Israel defeats them.

How? Miraculous. Let me tell you, get this. I heard on a show,

I heard it was Tom Snyder. Tom Snyder back in the 70s.

I think it was 70, early 80s. Created six and a half gallons out of thin air.

Awesome. Tom Snyder had a general on from the Israeli army in the

Six -Day War. A lot of you don't know what the Six -Day War is, but you should look up the Six -Day War.

The Arabs came in to destroy Israel. Israel kicked their rears and gained a lot of land. And then the, now they want it back.

Give us it back. Give it back. Now you lost it in war, fair and square. You attacked. And then, you know, if they had gained the land, they said, yeah, it's ours.

We want it. That's what they would have said. But anyway, so, wow.

The average IDQ in Israel is 120. Wow. I don't even know what mine is. I got to get mine measured. So he said, this general said that there was this one instance that, two instances that occurred that really struck out.

One was an army platoon or whatever it was, a unit of some sort, wanted to outflank the enemy and didn't know how to do it.

But they'd read how David in the Bible went through a certain passage, a land passage.

And so he found that area and did what the Bible said and went through this passage and outflanked the enemy because of it.

That's interesting. But the other thing that I thought was really interesting was there was a tank crew that was about out of fuel, out of water, out of ammo.

And they were basically behind enemy lines, probably. But they didn't know because the enemy lines and the lines are going back and forth and battle skirmishes.

They didn't know where they were. But they knew the enemy was that way. And they knew that their home was way back that way.

And they didn't have enough fuel to go way back. They would have probably died in the desert of starvation and out of water, thirsty.

So they were looking for the enemy to surrender to. At least they'd have water and food. That was their hope.

And so they were looking for the enemy to surrender to. This is an unusual circumstance, right?

I can see why that. We're gonna die. We're too close. One mile from them and a hundred miles back.

So they came up over a sand berm and they found the enemy.

And he said, they were all like 300 of them, like 200, 300 of them standing on their knee or kneeling, kneeling down with all their weapons in a pile.

And they're all, all their hands were behind their heads like this. The Arabs, they called it a tank.

They're like, they're all in a group on their knees with their hands behind their heads and their weapons on another pile.

So they drove the tank down. They had just enough fuel, drove the tank down. And these guys are looking at them.

They don't do anything. So these Israelis get out of the tank, looking around.

They aren't doing anything. It's out of the tank. They find a radio and they dial it in.

And the enemy radio, and they dial it into their frequency. And they contact their guys.

Hey, you know, they're just sitting there like this the whole time. And so the Israelis came in and captured them.

So when they were discussing this with the enemy, they said, well, why'd you do what? And they said, we heard the army coming from over the sand.

The army, the sound of the army was so great. It was so huge, so loud that we knew we would have no chance against it.

So we surrendered before it even got here. And there's one tank.

God's on their side. Yeah. Amen. I wonder if the

Antichrist is already here. Well, if he is, he's a Democrat. On Biden's staff.

Could it be a woman? No, Antichrist is a male.

Yeah. His desire will not be for women. It'll be for men. And he repeatedly says, he, he, he.

So it's a male. All right, you guys.

All right. Bible study. I think we'll go to clubhouse and just see what happens.

Okay. All right, you guys. Let's go,

Brandon. That's right. All right, everybody. God bless. Hey, it was fun after the show. Talk to you later.