Our Country

Welcome to Have You Not Read, a podcast seeking to answer questions from the text of Scripture for the honor of Christ and the edification of the Saints. Before we dig into our topic, we humbly ask you to rate, review, and share the.

Podcast. Thank you. My name is Chris Giesler and with me are Michael Deere and David Kassin and we have a couple of questions that have come in to us about our country and so we thought we would tackle those together.

Christian Principles, Socialism, and the Limits of Returning to the Past

The first one, our country was built on Christian principles. What is the best way to get those principles back into society before we lose our country to socialism where people worship the state instead?

And in the second one, our country was built on chattel slavery, not the Hebrew kind. Doesn't that mean that fundamentally our country is sinful and should be replaced with a more godly alternative?

Yeah, so these are a good pair of questions and they offer us an opportunity for a little bit of humor. Since we were built both on Christian principles and chattel slavery, then the obvious conclusion is that we were using principled Christian chattel slavery to build our country.

No, it's not exactly that. We're gonna get a letter now. Yeah. Wow, writing a letter, old-fashioned. That would be great. I think that it's important to recognize that there were a lot of Christian principles at work in the reasoning for those who first came across.

Certainly there were trappers, traitors, pioneers, but the pilgrims who came over had an idea of, well, they had hope. They had hope for the future of their children and their grandchildren to be able to worship freely in a place where they would not be prosecuted by the state for not abiding by certain rules.

Many of the English separatists who left Britain and went to Holland couldn't make it there. The culture wasn't good for their kids, so they decided to risk everything and come over to the New World. And they brought with them Christian principles.

And of course the people that were with them that weren't Christians, per se, still were embedded in Christendom with all manner of Christian presuppositions that were in place. And so this completely marinated everything that was written from the Mayflower Compact to the Bill of Rights and the Constitution and so on.

So there's a lot of Christian principles that are there. And one Christian principle is that everything is not going to be right until Jesus comes back. So not all sin is going to be dealt with, not all enemies will be a footstool for his feet until he returns, and the last enemy is death.

Chattel slavery, wherein there is man-stealing and this buying and selling of people as property, the splitting of families, and so on and so forth, this slave trade, is not biblical. In fact, it warrants the death penalty in the life of Israel when they were living under the Sinaitic Covenant.

So we can see that God clearly showed this kind of slavery is unjust. This kind of slavery.

Is sinful and wrong. So to make sure I heard you correctly, you're saying that the kind of slavery where you're stealing people and forcing them into servitude is unbiblical and actually warranted the death penalty in Deuteronomy, I think.

Yeah, I think it was Deuteronomy. So how could these Christian men in that time call themselves Christian and have slaves?

Slavery in Scripture, Household Codes, and the Difference Between Chattel and Servitude

Yeah, that's a good question. So the worldwide slave trade, which again, slavery has been a constant throughout human history, but when you go back to where we get the word slave, we get it from the word Slav, where Eastern Europeans were enslaved, and they were enslaved by other people, stronger and with more weapons than they had, and so on.

The Roman Empire had many slaves, and Paul writes about that. There were slaves in Israel, and Moses writes about that, and the prophets talk about it as well. And the slavery that we would find in the life of Israel would be different under the purview of, let's say, the Judges versus the time of the Kings versus the time of post-exile versus the time when we get to the Roman Empire, and the kind of slavery that Paul was writing about would be fundamentally different than the kind that Moses wrote about.

So it's helpful to be aware of that. And then when we think about the slave trade, transatlantic slave trade, as they say, and just remember that the slave trade was one-third transatlantic and two-thirds going the other direction.

Into many Muslim countries. Yeah, the Arabic slave trade, which continued before the European one and continued long after the European one, was horrible as well, but just numbers-wise far exceeded it.

Right, and so the.

Transatlantic slave trade, which was a third of all of the African enslavement, again, this was coastal tribes overpowering through weapons, inland tribes, and taking them as captives and as properties to sell them.

So this is African tribes preying upon African tribes to sell them to, two-thirds of them going to the Muslims and a third of them transatlantic to the European colonies. Of that one-third, nine percent of that transatlantic slave trade came to the Americas and came into the colonies.

And so now we have people who didn't grow up here, they didn't belong here, and here they are, and then they're treated in ways that are not only unbiblical and sinful, but truly truly wicked and deserving of God's judgment.

So when it said our country is built on chattel slavery, okay, well, chattel slavery was a one ingredient in the recipe. Yes, absolutely. Could have the country been built without chattel slavery? Yeah, yeah, you know, many countries were built without chattel slavery, so that's obvious.

It wasn't like an essential ingredient. But how could they be Christians and still engage in this? Well, many Christians did object. Many Christians did object and wrote about it and wrote sermons about it.

And what is lost in the nuance of it is many preachers, many theologians would write against slavery in particular, the particular kinds of treatment, where they would say this type of slavery is bad.

But they would not condemn slavery.

Outright. Why not? Because there was, at that time, there was a biblical form of slavery that could actually be handled righteously. This is where the nuance is completely lost. Now that we're advocating for slavery, but there's a difference between the Hebrew kind of slavery, which is like indention servitude, and work off the debts and stuff, helps prevent generational poverty, and what we call chattel, which is meaning property.

Chattel means property, non-real estate, property where you're treating the image bearers of God like things, and you control them, you control their progeny. Basically, like you were raising cattle, and that's an affront to the image of God.

But that is, you know, we're talking about nuance. We're not saying that slavery is good. We're saying that there is a way for people who are absolutely destitute and poor in the righteousness of God's law, where they could work off debt, or sell off land, or put themselves into servitude, and then they actually had debts forgiven, and slavery, you know, slaves were released, so they could go back to their land, so they didn't have generational poverty.

That's a far cry from the transatlantic slave trade, which, when you talk about slavery, that's, most people only understand that. Right, and so who.

Has time to use careful, defined terms when you've got this big problem? So what began to happen with the abolitionist movement against slavery was... Run by Christians. Which was run by many Christians, but some of them would not be what you would call Orthodox Christians, or confessional Christians, or believing in the Trinity, or Jesus being raised from the dead, even.

But they would still call themselves Christians, and the point is, it got to the point where, if you said anything other than, all slavery, bad, evil, then you were bad and evil. Now, I know that in our modern days, we don't have, you know, such, you know, bombastic types of controversies.

We're much more intelligent and nuanced today, and can handle tough subjects with specificity, and keep cool heads, right? I've seen the internet, it's true. Yeah, so there were many Christians who would say, look, I am totally against buying and selling people like that.

There are so many evils and wrong things that are being done here, but you have to understand that the Bible does not use your bumper sticker that says, all slavery, bad. Repeat after me, all slavery, bad.

That's not what the Bible says. In fact, it's not even fair to take a look at what Paul says about slaves, and then look at the way in which slavery was dealt with by case law in the Old Covenant. Those aren't the same things.

When Paul talked about households, Christian households, he reminded them not only about husbands and wives and parents and children, but also about masters and slaves. And Paul himself saw himself as a slave of Jesus Christ in Christ's household.

And he told Christian masters to remember, in their treatment of their slaves, that they have a master in heaven, and that they are the slave of Jesus Christ. So remember that when you deal with your slaves in your household.

And then he told Christian slaves, remember, when you do your service for your earthly master, remember you have a heavenly master, and you ought to be pleasing him in your life here. And that's not the only thing that Paul ever said about masters and slaves, but it's important to see that in the household codes, that many times the kind of household that went to church together would be husband, wife, children, and the master walking in as an owner of a couple of slaves.

And they're all coming to church together. And James has some things to say about how we receive everybody, and Corinthians has a way of saying, well, how do we get together as households and have communion together?

And there's all these instructions about how we're all coming together, you know, in a sense equal in Christ, but that doesn't erase all distinctives. Right. And so many Christians, many Christians are going to look at the Bible and say, well, so you're saying all slavery is bad no matter what.

Hmm, interesting. Okay, well then I guess we're going to pretend like these parts don't exist in the household codes. I wonder what will go away next. Proper relationships between husbands and wives? Right.

Maybe perhaps proper relationships between parents and children. I mean, in Marxism, of course, which is part of the question, in socialism and Marxism, every single human relationship has to be split up into oppressor and oppressed.

Well, that's obvious when it comes to master and slave. Well, also, you know what else is.

Really wicked and awful? Patriarchy. Husband and wife. Yeah. That husband and.

Wife relationship, that is just as bad as master-slave. And that parent-children relationship, that's why parents are bad for kids. That's why kids need to go to the government schools. The village.

Yeah. So we have to do due diligence and not just go to the master-slave and interpret it as employer-employee. Hey, we can apply that. We can't interpret it that way, but we can make some applications that way, but we can't interpret it that way.

Yeah. I.

Think a lot of Christians have been bullied by people who would take up the Bible and say the Bible is problematic, not only because of what it says in the Old Testament about slavery, but like you said, Paul tells Philemon to go back to his master.

He doesn't try to say you need to run away, you need to try to stay free. Yeah, it's a really important point. He sends him back, but then the Christian, if we're embarrassed on that issue, on what the Bible has to say about slavery, rather than, yep, it says what it says, God's Word is good, what he's doing is good, the way that he outlines it over time eliminates slavery when you're treating people as equals.

But if you flinch on that point and are embarrassed by that, like you said, eventually they're gonna start trying to embarrass you about the husband-and-wife relationship and the parents-and-child.

So think about this.

There was chattel slavery, and that was wrong, and that was evil, and that was bad.

And we can call it wrong and evil because the Bible does. Right, and we have.

Standards, and we say not only, we don't even have to cite Mosaic case law, we can just look at the New Testament. Masters and slaves in the same household can belong to the same Lord Jesus Christ and get along great.

And did those situations ever exist in American history alongside the chattel slavery? Yes. Now the hot-headed, hard-hearted will say, you can't say that. If you say that, you're saying all slavery is good.

No, I didn't say that. You want it to be this all-or-nothing dichotomy, but reality is not like that. So we need to recognize that slavery was a part of the history of our nation, as it is the part of the history of every nation.

It's actually part of our nation's present. The only thing that's fundamentally changed is only the federal government can own slaves, and they do. A whole lot of them. We have a massive prison population, and they use them as slaves.

So our country is still being built on slavery. Okay, and contracts are signed, and inmates are used, and slavery continues to be big business in the United States of America. If you define.

Slavery as forced labor, forced servitude, then yeah, we have it. Prison.

Industry. And so in this regard, slavery is always going to be a part of human society at some level. And the point the Bible makes is not eliminate slavery. The point the Bible makes is do slavery righteously, which that's a hard pill to swallow.

That's not, you know, because of who I am and the age in which I've grown up, I would like it to be something different. But there are many Christians who lost jobs and lost prominence and suffered a great deal of degradation and defaming because they refused to say all slavery is bad.

But they had to say, well, the Bible doesn't say that. Well, then guess what? Well, then the Bible's bad. Right? That's just a line of argumentation that goes that way. So our nation was built not just on not just on chattel slavery.

We had slavery, and we had more than chattel slavery. Chattel slavery was awful, and it needs to be condemned. But there was more than chattel slavery. There was other kinds of slavery, and there are other kinds of slavery today.

And I think that most of the time, especially presently, it's been done wrong. But you know what our country was also built on? It was also built on the patriarchy. It was also built on husbands, fathers, leading their families, the only one in the household having a vote, right?

And oh, if you were a landowner. Yeah. So there's many ingredients here. Chattel slavery is one of them. Other forms of slavery were also there. How about patriarchy in many different flavors? How about land ownership?

How about this Marxist split? There are the people who own things and the people who don't own things. There's the property owners, and there's not the property owners. Let's have a big fight about that too.

Gospel Preaching, Christian Hope, and Changing Society from the Bottom Up

So there are many, many ingredients that we can look at and say, well, you know, what an awful thing that our country was built on. Well, Hank, again, the question I think is worth bringing into the combination with the first one.

Okay, our country was built on Christian principles. History shows this. What's the best way to get those principles back into society before we lose our country to socialism? And the flip side of that coin is, well, wasn't there a lot of problems with the way our country was founded?

So do we really want to go backwards? But I think the answer in the scriptures is that Jesus Christ is washing his bride, the church, with the water of his word. And if there's going to be a bright, Christian-saturated, Bible-believing future for our nation, it's going to be because, not because we're going back to anything, but we're moving forward.

So I think fundamentally Christianity is about, it's going to be more about hope than it is about retracing our steps. I think we're anchored in the future, and I think that there is a version of a Christian nation, for the lack of a more clear term, that's going to be a better version ahead of us than what was behind us.

Now what does that look like, right? Hopefully what that looks like is more people who are born again, more people who are regenerate, more people who love Jesus because they're indwelt by the Holy Spirit, churches that are more understanding of the scriptures than our forebearers were, more ready to take all of these mounting resources full of Bible knowledge and so on, and moving forward so that there is basically, for lack of a better term, a wildfire of Christianity spreading that can't be stopped.

Yeah. And people call that revival, and I'm looking forward to it, but I don't think it's going to look like something where Christianity was just deeply cultural, where it was just kind of in the water, and therefore Christian principles just kind of oozed out of everybody's philosophy.

Yeah. But there's a better version of that, I think, ahead of us. I don't want to go backwards to something.

That was prior. Does that make sense? Yeah. So the question, the first one did talk about how the best way to get those Christian principles back in society, and you alluded to them a little bit, you know, talking about how regardless of whether you are a master, slave, husband and wife, child, father, whether you're a landowner, whether you're a business owner, there are principles, Christian principles, especially in the New Testament, that talk about your conduct, the way that we should behave in society, but the root of it is that if there were more regenerate people who wanted to follow God's way, you know, to live in his kingdom according to kingdom rules, then society in general would be better, and it would be better than returning to these Christian principles, and it would be better than, you know, this trying to make up for the horror of that chattel slavery, you know, whether through reparations or whatever else to try to undo the sins of the past, or these people who try to go back to what the founders said, and says, we're gonna reinstitute these Christian principles here, you kind of sidestep both of those, and you said, well, let's talk about families, let's talk about our churches, and let's talk about regardless of what position you're in, you're living according to what Christ has taught, because Christ is.

Living in you. Yeah, so getting principles back into society. So when you look at the term principle, what comes at the first part of that word is prince. For some people, the solution is get a Christian prince.

Have somebody who installs Christendom, kind of a top-down, by law, by system, by structure, and then everybody will see that this is better, and things will be better, and we'll get better because of the structure and the system, okay?

Now, the model for that has been established when and where? Long time ago, on a continent far, far away. And although I'm grateful for things that we can learn from that, there's also some things that we can learn from that.

Yeah, yeah. And if we're going to talk about that first part of the term principle, and who's the prince, that we have a king, and his name is Jesus, and he's king of kings, and he is Lord of lords, and we are a kingdom among the nations, even as we are a family among families, and there is a need for us, if we're going to fight against lofty things, lofty arguments, being raised up against the knowledge of God, and so on, if we're going to be against socialism, Marxism, Islam, so on and so forth, well how are we going to do that?

What is the best way to do that? The power of the.

Gospel. Right. And having people saved and bowing the knee to Jesus Christ, who is king. There's this plan that.

Most people find very foolish. It's called preaching the gospel. And people like, that's never going to work. Like, I submit to you 2 ,000 years of data. Yeah. Come at me. Right. And it's not my idea.

I certainly wouldn't have invented that idea or recommended it, but those who have turned the world, the oikomene, the Roman Empire upside down, have come here too. They complain about Jason and Paul and Silas in Acts 17.

Well, how did they turn the Roman Empire upside down? They went around preaching the gospel. Now, one of the problems that Christians have is, like, they're waiting for someone to speak for them when Jesus told every single Christians, you ought to speak up.

And I've heard some encouraging stories lately about Christians in the workplace or in other venues just speaking up and holding fast to what they believe and challenging those around them and finding all of a sudden Christians coming out of the bushes saying, thank you for saying that I agree.

And I'll speak up too. Wow, that was interesting. Like, this is just simply like, hey, I'm going to very openly pledge allegiance to Christ, bow the knee to Christ, say, you know what, Jesus is in charge.

I'm gonna run things his way. I'm gonna follow the Lamb wherever he goes. So, just so you know where I'm at on this. And again, the gospel is, people who think that the preaching of the gospel is us going around and begging people, please ask Jesus into your heart.

No, that's not the gospel. The gospel is the good news and it's all about Jesus Christ's person and work. The good news. The good of the good news is Jesus Christ and the news of the good news is Jesus Christ.

It's a heralding that he is king. He has authority. This is his business. I'm letting you know who's in charge. And when everybody starts talking that way and proclaiming that way and moving that way, the principles from our Prince, Jesus Christ, are being lived out, fleshed out, worked out amongst all his people.

And the kingdom among the nations becomes pretty bright. Like a city set on a hill. We get real salty, in a good way, salt of the earth. All of a sudden, we're the lamp on the lampstand, not under the candle, giving light to all who are in the room, even those who would might.

Prefer darkness. But I think that's the plan. Yeah. Well, we already have, so instead of installing like a Prince from the world, we already have that Prince. So we already have the top-down. He's already given us how to live.

Yeah. And what, and so now we need the bottom-up. The bottom-up. We need the people living it. I've heard it described, we don't start with politics and then try to change the culture and then try to get it into the church so that we can live free.

No, we live as the church and that works out into society. And then through society, when you have a godly society, they're going to elect godly magistrates. Rather than trying to install that system and then force the people to abide by it, they're not going to if their heart's not there.

Well, it's.

The only thing that's ever been consistent. Like if the instructions are, go therefore, make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.

All of this is about Jesus Christ, his authority as the one who died for our sins and was raised the third day and ascended to the right hand of the Father and will return in full victory. We're going to be heralding that news.

And that was the instructions from the beginning. It's the only thing that has stayed constant with the church from the beginning till now. There have been various, pun somewhat intended, incarnations of the church where you have, you know, highly organized, you know, imperial church.

You've had the mixture of the state and the church in both the Continental and the English Reformations. And you've had a variety of different experiences. But the one thing that's been constant that has brought glory to Christ and good for people in this world is the preaching of the gospel.

And that's what we appreciate about when we go back and we read about our reformer forefathers. What do we like most about John Knox? What do we like most about Calvin? What do we like most.

About Luther? The exciting parts, where they stood up and they were bombastic and they, you know, that's the stuff they make movies about. Yeah. That's.

What we like to see. But in those moments it was what? Preaching the gospel. And of course people will be interested in Geneva. Of course people will be interested in Scotland. Of course people are going to be interested in Wittenberg and the Lutheran Germany and so on.

That's interesting. But those are symptoms of what happened when the gospel was preached at a certain time in history. And the symptoms were manifested in these statist forms because that's the way that culture was.

And the light of Christ is hitting all of that culture in a certain way. And now we live in a different time. The gospel of Jesus Christ, which is timeless, being preached again and again, is going to have a different reaction.

It's not going to look like the cantons of Switzerland trending Protestant or Catholic and then going to war about it. So this pair of.

Questions you have, if we just assume that they're both written in Christians, it would say, you know, a Christian person says, I would like to get back to the Christian principles on what this country was founded.

And the next second question is, he says, no, this slavery thing, this has made it inherently sinful and we need to replace that with a more godly alternative. They're not that far apart. They actually both want a government and a society that better reflects what they see in scripture.

So you have, I mean, for lack of a better term, you've got one guy on the right, one guy on the left, and they're saying, we need to fundamentally transform society into something that better reflects Christ.

The person on the left is like, we need to help the oppressed and do not oppress the widow and the orphan. You know, don't be like these greedy capitalists who do that. And the guy on the right says, no, we have to get back to the Christian principles, you know, private property and whatever else.

You have one person on one side, one person on the other side, and they're here with you right now. And your response to them is, well, the solution is to preach the gospel. Is that.

Right? Yeah. So here's option A, here's option B. I think the answer is no, right? So I think the answer is no. It's a matter of, why were there Christian principles oozing out of everybody's philosophy near the time of the formation of our country?

How did that even happen? Because preaching of the gospel preceded that. What has proven over time to erase chattel slavery and other true evil and injustices in society over time? The preaching of the gospel that affects Christians who are then magistrates, who then pass righteous laws in clever ways, like William Wilberforce, right?

Perfect example. So William Wilberforce does this, why? Because he's a believer. How did he become a believer? Because the gospel was preached to him. So we have Christian magistrates, and today we have Christian sheriffs, we have Christian politicians today, but we have Christian businessmen today, we have Christian lobbyists today, we have Christian think tanks today, we have Christians just about everywhere doing all sorts of things, and we've only left to them their abortion clinics, right?

So Christians are flooding every part of society, and what we need to do is wake up in the morning, pledge allegiance to Jesus Christ the King, and go out and say whatever he says, that's what we're gonna do, and be loud and proud about that, and not back down.

That, I think, is what people who hate Christ are most frightened of. Christians who aren't afraid of men, Christians who no longer fear men, Christians who no longer fear death, Christians who simply fear the Lord, that is the greatest fear of people who hate God and hate Christ, that Christians would live in that confidence and in that hope, and just be bold and go forward.

And everybody, you know, the previous generation that would pray for revival every Wednesday night, the previous generation that preached about revival every other Sunday night, they would recognize that as a revival, and it should be our desire as well.

And so that has to start with, you know, me, you, and you, and just say, hey, this is what we do, and we do it, we model it for our kids, model it for our wives, model it for our friends, stir one another up in our local churches, this is how we roll, let the chips fall where they may, I'm not gonna be rude about it, but I am gonna say, hey, look, we don't do that because I.

Think Christ is king here. Yeah, and there's no area where that doesn't take place. Yeah. There's no neutrality in certain areas, and you keep that in private, or family life, or church life, but everywhere else you stay silent.

It's.

No, all of it is his. Yeah, that's right, he's the king of all kings, the Lord of.

All lords, and that includes the HR department. Right, very much so. Well, I think that about answers those questions. Let's move on to recommendations. Michael?

Book Recommendations: Genesis, Finance, and Biblical Parenting

Yeah, I'd like to recommend a book by Kenneth Gentry, As It Is Written, and the subtitle is The Genesis Account, Literal or Literary, and so the particular focus of this book is dealing with something called the framework theory, and the framework hypothesis, or the, it's called a framework hypothesis, or the literary framework view, is a way, is a conceived middle way for evangelicals to read the early chapters of Genesis as something other than what they would appear to be by plain reading.

That when it comes to a six-day creation, where morning and evening, as would be understood by Israel, would be an actual day, and so on. No, it's not at all that these were actual days, or that, you know, Adam was actually made out of dust, or that this, however it happened, that's not the point of these chapters.

The point of these chapters is that they were structured together in a literary fashion to communicate timeless truths.

So like the Jordan Peterson approach. Right, exactly, and so what Kenneth.

Gentry does is he doesn't directly write against the skeptic who says these statements in Genesis are manifestly contradictory, therefore it's wrong. He does write about that, but what he's more writing about is against those who are holding to the framework hypothesis, because, and why did they have the framework hypothesis?

Because they've responded to those critics, and they're like, oh no, you misunderstood the point of the text. The point of the text wasn't that it was history, the point is that it's revealing mystery.

Okay, so they try to cut off the skeptics at the knees and say, this isn't about science, and this isn't about history, you've misunderstood the point of this religious text. Right, and then Kenneth Gentry is saying, no, the theory, the framework hypothesis is really bad, and here's all the reasons why, and in fact, you want a better answer to those skeptics?

Well, here are the answers to those skeptics. Now, mostly what he does in this book is, that's helpful, is that he collates all of the research, papers, books, scholars that give those answers. Okay, so it's not, he's kind of, this is his debate prep book.

Okay, so he has gathered all this information from all these different scholars to be ready to use it in debate against the framework hypothesis, folks. Okay, so it's not like this is like, most of this is not his original approach, and so the value of the book is, it'll put you into contact with a lot of other resources that you can use, and I found.

It very helpful. And that's not huge, it doesn't look super intimidating. No, it's not a huge book,.

But the subject index is great, the bibliography is good, and really the way that he does the chapters, you can tell this is just, this is just debate prep, but where I was using it for the other day was answering an objection about how Genesis 2 has a different order of creation than Genesis 1, therefore these are separate accounts, separate traditions laid side-by-side, proving that there's not one author, proving that this is an erroneous book, so on and so forth.

And anyway, so some of the questions and comments about it were interesting, and so I just referenced this, and it pointed me to some scholarship that made some very plain observations of Hebrew grammar, and I was like, oh, there we go.

Very good. It was almost anticlimactic. Well, for this.

Week, because I travel a lot, and I'm doing workouts, and from whichever hotel I'm in, I'm listening to a lot of audiobooks and podcasts and stuff like that, and over the summer, the Kings Hall guys had done a series of things, and I'm not necessarily recommending everything that the Kings Hall has produced, there's my disclaimer, but something I found that was really helpful, they started this series on finance in July, July, August, September, and it was a series of four.

The first one was with Jordan Bush talking about wealth, money, and the New Christendom, Bitcoin, with Jordan Bush, and Jordan Bush, I think, does Bitcoin in the Bible podcast. And then Jace Revenald talks about gold, and we have another guy that talks about real estate, and another guy that talks about traditional finance, which we talk about stocks and bonds and everything, Joe Geracy.

And the reason I mention them is that these are four guys who are experts in their field who are Christian. So if you reference the podcast, you want to learn more about traditional finance, you want to learn more about decentralized.

These are guys that I think you can learn a lot from, and they've all kind of come together in a four-part series at the Kings Hall podcast. So they can, then you look at them and have other resources depending on what it is you want to do, if you want to go into different cryptocurrencies, if you want to go into precious metals, if you want to do real estate, which you can be successful in any of those things, but I doubt there's someone who's an expert in all of them.

So you kind of do have to specialize, but their whole point is that you're building for the future. They're planting trees that they don't see the fruit of. They are planning for their children's and their children's children legacy.

They're looking forward. And these guys in these areas are Christian dudes. So I think you would do well to learn more from them. And one thing that I keyed in on Joe Geracy, the final one talking about traditional finance, is that the tax code is really written for business owners.

That if you have a business, there's a lot of things in there that you can take advantage of because it's written for that. So I was like, huh, so I may want to start an LLC of some kind. But it opened up a world for me, exposed me some things that I hadn't learned about in the past, and gave me some resources and some experts from a Christian perspective that I could learn a little bit more about.

So there you go.

Awesome. Very good. Great. My recommendation is a book called Eight Errors Parents Make and How to Avoid Them by Michael Brock. The subtitle is A Practical Guide to Biblical Parenting. And I found it very practical and very encouraging.