MSL: April 8, 2024

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The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network. All right, everybody, welcome to the show.

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It's me, Matt Slick. You're listening to Matt Slick live. And if you want, you can give me a call. Same as always.

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All you have to do is dial eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six.

00:22

Easy to do. You can also email me at info at Karm .org info at Karm .org.

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And if you do that, please put in the subject line. Put in a header there, a radio question or radio comment, and that'll do it.

00:38

That'll be fine. OK. Today is April 8th. I understand the eclipse has happened or might be happening.

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I don't even know when. I've been so busy working on stuff, but I saw an eclipse about three or four years ago here in the

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Idaho area. And it was just like they see like they show on movies and, you know, pictures and stuff with the the scintillating the the the flares going way out.

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You could see it with your with your eyes, you know, with the it was just awesome. I remember that so clearly. I would love to have been down there to see it or over there in the east to be able to see it again.

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But, well, you know, that's what it is. That's what it is. Got too much to do here. All right.

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Like I said, if you want to give me a call, eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six.

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And if you want to watch, you can do that by going to rumble dot com forward slash match slick live.

01:36

And we're on YouTube also match slick hyphen live because I don't know, has has had

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YouTube. Let's see. Got us out of jail yet. They're only supposed to have me have that account.

01:54

We have a different account. We had several ones on YouTube. We're supposed to have it out there for like two weeks, penalized 10 days.

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It's been what, two months. So you're not supposed to talk about covid, not supposed to talk about a bunch of stuff that the political correct people don't want you to talk about.

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So it's called Right Speak Right Think. I would suggest you read the novel 1984.

02:18

All right. So there you go. Yeah, I'm looking. Everything looks fine.

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Everything looks OK. Eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six.

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We've got one caller coming in doing hard YouTube time. That's right. Humble Clay. But we are on rumble.

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We are on rumble and we'll get more more subscribers. I don't know how many we have now.

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Five hundred thirty one on rumble, which is not as popular, but we do have over 20 ,000 on Karma org videos.

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So the reason we don't broadcast this to the YouTube car more videos is because if I say something, the powers that that we don't like, then

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I get penalized. You're not supposed to talk about certain things. You can't say I have opinions. You can't say things because it's misinformation.

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And then when I ask him, well, what is the right information? We don't know. We just know what you're saying is right. Well, wait a minute.

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How do you know? And even though even though I give documentation and statistics and stuff like that from official sources,

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I'm penalized anyway. That's what leftism does. If it doesn't fit through the leftist filter, it doesn't matter what you say.

03:30

Let's get to Jan from North Carolina. Jan, there we go.

03:36

Jan, you're welcome here on the air. Hey, Matt, how you doing? I'm doing all right. Hanging in there, hanging in there.

03:42

What do you got? Oh, great. OK, so my question is when Jesus was praying in the

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Garden of Gethsemane. And he was just having those agonizing prayers and the the disciples fell asleep.

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Then how did they know what he said as he was praying? He probably told them later on or the

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Holy Spirit gave it to them. OK, that's what I thought, maybe it was the Holy Spirit.

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Yeah, Holy Spirit could certainly. Yeah, I guess you could have told him during the 40 days. Well, I'm sorry. Go ahead.

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I was just thinking I hadn't thought about. I was thinking Jesus didn't have time to tell them. I forgot about he came back.

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So I'm going to fold them up after he wrote. Yeah. And so the

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Holy Spirit works through the prophets and the apostles, and you can certainly bring to their understanding and awareness things that otherwise they wouldn't have known.

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Just like when Jesus was in the wilderness, what was said? Well, it could be that, for example, he told the disciples what he said to the enemy and they remembered it.

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And when Luke and Matthew wrote what they did, they remembered or they interviewed people who knew and they wrote it down.

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And something similar could have happened here. He's praying what he's praying to the father. But if that's not the case, that he physically told them, which it may have been, it's also certainly possible that the

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Holy Spirit gave it to them. Now, one of the things I'd be curious about is if it says every single disciple fled or wasn't with him.

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When it says the disciples went to sleep, does it necessitate every one of them? Maybe one of them heard what

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Christ said. Maybe a woman or two heard what he said and repeated it to the men. So we don't know for sure, but there's several possibilities.

05:39

OK, that makes great sense. Good. Thank you very much.

05:45

I appreciate it. You're welcome very much. God bless. OK, have a good have a good one.

05:50

Thank you. Bye. You too. Thanks. OK. All right. Hey, you want to give me a call?

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Eight seven seven two zero seven two two seven six. You can also email me info at carm .org

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C A R M dot o R G. And just put in the subject line radio question or radio comment.

06:14

Let's get to Chris from Ohio. Hey, Chris, welcome here on the air. Hey, thank you for taking my call.

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So we were right in the direct path of the of the eclipse. And my wife and I were sitting on the deck looking over the land, and we both cried a little bit about thinking about them, how it must have been when

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Jesus died on the cross and the son was gone. And I just wanted your thoughts on on that.

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You think the people that crucified him knew what they had just done when that happened?

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Because it was a really an awe inspiring moment. I think some did and some didn't, because there's a lot of people there.

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We know what a centurion said. You know, this is the son of God. So I think that some people really knew who he was.

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And and others just rebelled and didn't. So couldn't say how many.

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But there's a lot of people around there for crucifixion. It takes a lot of support staff to perform.

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They all wanted a sign. What's that? They all wanted a sign.

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Oh, I got a sign. You know, when there's an earthquake and the sun goes dark, that's a bit of a sign.

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Yeah, I would get my in the veils torn. The veil torn the temple, but the Romans wouldn't know that. And the people at the at the at the crucifixion site wouldn't have known that.

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But yeah, it's something special. And the veil was like four inches thick of heavy woven material.

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It's not something you can you can rip easily. You know, I don't know if today's date we might need, you know, cars to pull apart, you know, trucks.

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Who knows? But it's yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just want to share with you that it was when we thought about it and relative to what

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Christ went through, it was a touching moment here and in mid

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Ohio. Yeah. You know, I wanted to go down to Texas.

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I have friends down there to see it. But I could have gone anywhere, you know, if I'd had

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I could have just done anyway. But I'd already seen it. There's like a lot of travel for three minutes of stuff.

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You know, so I didn't go. But I'm glad you saw it, though. Did you see the flares coming out from the sun?

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Yeah, we did. And I think that's when the tears came. Yeah. You know, here's some trivia that's really interesting.

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Is that the size of the sun and the size of the moon and the distance from the moon to the

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Earth is incredibly precise in order to allow exactly what you see.

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If it's if the moon is further away, you'll see a ring and you won't see the solar flares.

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If it's closer, it's the whole thing's blotted out and you won't see the solar flares. And I read an article years ago about this.

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And because of the exact ratio that it is, scientists were able to look at the sun and some stuff while the eclipse was going and learn stuff they could not learn any other way.

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It's very, very precise. So it's interesting. Oh, as far as how to how to measure things.

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Well, I mean, the it's like an exact exact equivalent, the size of the moon over the size of the sun at that distance is exact.

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It's really interesting. If the sun was if the moon was further out or closer, you wouldn't have what you see.

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I remember in Southern California, I saw an annular eclipse where the moon was further out because it has a perturbation in its orbit, a feeling of parallel helium.

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And in this one, you saw a ring around the sun and it was the moon was further away, was smaller, you know.

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And so you saw a ring. And in fact, everybody left because when

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Southern California, the clouds, it was overcast, overcast and no one was there. I didn't have a camera. And the crowd, the cloud broke and get this.

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This is what I saw. Imagine the horizon looking out at the ocean and then an eyeball blinking, you know, with the eye open.

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And that's what happened. The shape of the of the the sunset, the clouds opened like the shape of an eye just in that one area.

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And the sun annular looked like a pupil in light as it went right down in there.

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And I was like a gigantic eye. I remember that. Wow. It gives me goosebumps.

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Hey, Matt. Grad says, yeah, thanks. Thanks, Matt. Matt said that.

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So the others. So anyway, it's really, really coincidental that that is exactly how it is.

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Interesting coincidence. Yeah, well, we're thankful that he did what he did in all his humiliation.

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And and I appreciate what you do. So I just wanted to share our experience. Thank you. Well, praise

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God, man. I'm glad you had that as awesome. Praise God. All right.

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Well, that was Chris in Raleigh, North Carolina. Got to see some great stuff. Praise God for that.

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And awesome stuff. Let's get to Christopher from Raleigh, North Carolina. Christopher, welcome. You're on the air.

11:56

Hey, Matt, thanks for taking my call. I called like last week and I was like, oh, I just saved your number.

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I was like, I feel like we would be called that lot. So my question is in regards to like witnessing to Jehovah's Witness.

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And reason is I just got recently married. Praise God. And and my my father in law, he's a

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Jehovah's Witness. And I love him.

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He's a cool guy. But it's just like, you know, I'm wondering,

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I know it's not so like black and white. Oh, say this one thing and then they'll have a relation.

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I know there's prayer and stuff, but how how should I go about, you know, witnessing to him?

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Because I know Jehovah's Witness are trained to kind of shut down. You know, so what would what would you recommend?

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How should I approach that? Well, you have to know your doctrine and you also have to realize that they're brainwashed.

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So what I recommend people do is go to their kingdom halls or serve their kingdom.

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Ask them to go that you want to go. Don't go and argue. Don't go and do anything other than observe.

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And you say you're not there to argue. You're not there to do anything. You just want to see what happens, see what he says.

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And we get some music coming up. I'll tell you why that's important. What might happen out of it. So hold on, buddy.

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OK, we'll be right back. Folks, after these messages, please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick live.

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Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

13:57

Everybody, welcome back to the show. Let's get back on here with Christopher from Raleigh, North Carolina. Christopher, you're back on.

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You there? Yeah, I'm here. All right. So what

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I was suggesting was that you ask him to go to a meeting with him and you don't argue.

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And what this will do, it'll it'll do two things. One, it'll tell you what you're up against, because you have to understand that they aren't

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Christians. They're Watchtowerites. They are brainwashed. But yeah, they're brainwashed by the

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Watchtower organization. They're Watchtowerites. And you'll notice that if they're still doing things,

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I haven't been one in a couple of decades now, but I used to go every now and then back in the day and check them out.

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They're all the same. What they would do is maybe we should go to someone, another one sometime.

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But what they would do is someone would get up and do a reading, but they would open the Watchtower magazine and read out of it.

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And they would let the Watchtower guide their thinking, guide their analysis, guide their questions, guide their answers.

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And so I remember it's like this. They would go up and read and, you know, might say something in the text like, we know that Jesus is not

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God, because in John 14, 28, Jesus says the Father is greater than I. Let's turn to John 14, 28 in their

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Bibles. They would do it. The Father is greater than I. As you can see, since the Father is greater, if he's

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God, he'd be equal to. He's not greater than or the Father is greater than him. So he's not equal to.

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Therefore, he's not God. Therefore, the Trinity is false. And then we go on to the next point. So this is how they're trained.

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They're trained with bad logic, bad exegesis. They don't think the Watchtower just tells them what to think and how to think.

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And of course, well, the answer to that is, well, because he was made under the law and he was required to follow the will of God, the

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Father. But he's also called the making calling God his own father, making himself equal to God, John 5, 18.

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But you see, they don't look at all the scriptures because it doesn't suit them. So this is one of the reasons you need to go and, you know, grab literature, grab stuff and just say you want to read it.

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And he's going to be suspicious right away. But you don't argue. You say, I want to know. And then you read some material and pretty soon he's going to say, well, what do you think?

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And then that's when you talk and you say, well, and you say positive things. I think you're very dedicated.

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And I see that as being good and and that you want to serve God and you want to do what's right.

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But I have questions and I'm just not so sure about what it is that's going on.

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And me, I'd be saying something like, well, you know, I noticed that that the watchtower told you what to ask and what the answers were.

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And that concerns me because how do you know it's getting it right? It's a seed right there.

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It's a seed of doubt, you know, and there's so many different ways to approach it. And one of the things

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I like to do when the J -dubs who don't come to my door anymore, which I can't figure out why, but they used to, but they don't come to my door.

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You know, I would say to them, can I use your Bible for a second? And they'd say, sure. And I remember

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I go to Genesis 19, 24, but they changed it in their latest Bible. They changed it.

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It says Yahweh or Jehovah ran fire and brimstone from Jehovah out of heaven. And they altered it.

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So now it doesn't show to Jehovah's. Now it just shows one. And I would show it.

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I said, that's an interesting verse. And then they would say, are you trying to show us a trinity? And I would say to them, you got the trinity out of that.

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I said, is that what you got? Wow. It's interesting, you know, and it's a and I wouldn't answer the question, but I would go on to the next.

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You know, Amos 4, 10, 11, where God is speaking. He says, I saw your young men by the sword.

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It caused a stench to rise up in your nostrils. You have now returned to me, declares Jehovah. I overthrew you as God overthrew

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Sodom and Gomorrah. And I think Jehovah's Witnesses look at this text and just stare at it for a minute.

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Stare at it because they don't have to do with it, and I just don't say anything.

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And so you want the word of God to be powerful and there's other ways, you know, there's a lot of a lot of stuff you can say.

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But OK, so there you go. So what you do is you pray and you ask the Lord to bind the demonic spirit of Jehovah's Witnesses and to free your relative in this area.

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But when you pray like this, just be ready for a bit of a ride because it's probably a little bit worse for you.

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OK, spiritual stuff, you know. OK. Yeah. OK, cool.

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Awesome. Just real quick. What was that? What was that scripture you said that they just look at once you presented to them?

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Well, it was Genesis 1924 in combination with Amos 4, 10 through 11, 10 and 11.

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And if you go to the old Bibles, in fact, it's worth getting an older Bible. Get one that's from the 80s, 90s and just this is your

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Bible. Here it is. And then you show it to him in the Bible. Right. You show it to him and it'll be different.

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Genesis 1924 will be different. And you say, why are they different? Why has it changed? See questions, you can't tell them wrong.

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You have to ask questions. It takes a long time for someone to come out of a cult. It takes about two years for someone to come out on an average.

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And it comes out. They usually come out a little at a time. A question that you asked, a question somebody else asks, and it just gradually causes them to ask or doubt.

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Then they have to ask a question and then they're you know, they're ostracized and then that pushes them out.

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And the other way is by trauma. It's a traumatic thing that brings about quickly, like their son or daughter can't have a blood transfusion and are dying.

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And people, the J -Dubs look in the Bible for this and they can't find why you can't do this. So don't drink the blood in Leviticus 17, 14.

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But that has nothing to do with a transfusion. Let's do a dietary lot.

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So that happens also. There's a lot there. OK, so you said

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Genesis 19, 24 and Amos 4, 10 to 11. Yep, that's it.

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You got it. OK, OK, cool. In the 80s and 90s, Jehovah's Witness Bible. OK, and I'll be looking on your website for some other stuff, too.

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And I last point before I get off. I remember watching a video from you.

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You said something about get a an interlinear Bible from the

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Jehovah's Witness. And it points out John, John, the

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Gospel of John, where it says in the beginning was the word. The word was with God. The word was God.

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OK. All right. Awesome. Well, and the old ones are in green.

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So go online and you can find old ones or go to thrift stores that you can find them and and grab them green.

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Yeah, the green ones, interlinears that back in the 60s and 50s. And I've got a few.

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All right. OK. All right. Awesome. Thanks, Matt. All right, buddy. God bless. All right.

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If you want to give me a call, 877 -207 -2276.

22:09

David from Texas. Hey, did you see the eclipse? No, the rubber cats here.

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Oh, bummer. Yeah. Oh, well, anyway,

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I called a couple of weeks ago, a couple of times, and we were talking about different things and we left off on morality.

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And I guess where we're going to come. OK, well, we'll get to that because I want to talk to you.

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And just hold on. But I've got a hard break there. Hey, folks, be right back after these messages. If you want to give me a call, 877 -207 -2276.

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We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276.

23:01

Here's Matt Slick. All right. Welcome back to the show. Let's get back on with David from Texas.

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You're still there. Yep. All right. OK, man, so what do you got?

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Well, you were asking me how I could justify things morally under an atheistic framework, and I guess you were going to explain why you can justify things under a

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Christian framework. Sure. No problem. So what do you want to do? You want to tell me why you can't and I can or what?

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I mean, I believe that is and ought are permanently separated, as many philosophers believe.

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If if you think you have a way to, you know, to combine those two,

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I would love to hear it. Yeah. God is the one who is and reveals what ought to be.

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And so as a Christian, we would say that the revelation of morality comes from God's character, who's the ultimate against which nothing is equal.

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OK. OK. So it's a well,

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I mean, I don't know that that still seems to be subjective because it's subjective to what

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God says. Yeah, and it is subjective to what

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God says, and since God's character is pure, perfect, holy, righteous, eternal, then the morality that he reveals is also good, perfect, righteous, eternal.

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OK. OK. Well, I mean, just what we talked about last time was

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I said something along the lines of I think it's morally wrong to harm anything that's alive. And I'm aware of the issue of that eating.

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Right. But I just take it as the first principle. It's wrong to harm anything that's alive. The consequences are a secondary, secondary issue, not a first principle.

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And how can I justify that under atheism? I don't think that atheism is just the answer to one question.

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As you might have heard, it doesn't offer a framework. I have to come up with my own. And I don't really see the

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Bible offering a framework of morality that's. That seems to be feasible.

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It at all, it just seems it does not seem to be moral if you look at the whole thing overall.

25:47

Oh, so it doesn't seem to be moral, but yet you don't have an absolute moral morality by which you can judge what is or is not moral.

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But yet in your subjectivism, you say that doesn't seem to be moral, which means you're refuting yourself.

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So you're being inconsistent, illogical. OK, you see? Well, no, I'm just I have a subjective opinion of what morality is.

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And I guess I would say the Bible's incongruent with my subjective opinion of morality. Well, let me ask you a question here.

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Is the following statement true or false? It is always morally wrong for anyone to torture babies to death merely for their personal pleasure.

26:21

True or false? I'm going to say true. OK, then you as a subjective moralist are now asserting a universal moral absolute obligatory to everyone because you said the statement's true, but that's inconsistent with your subjectivism.

26:38

OK, no, well, I mean, I'm not saying that it's objectively true, I'm saying it's subjectively true.

26:44

Yeah, you say subjectively from your opinion, it's always wrong for anyone to do this.

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So what you're saying is I believe that morality is subjective, but I also believe that it's always wrong for everyone else to do something that's inconsistent.

27:00

OK, let's let me clarify what I think we I mean by subjective versus objective. So subjective doesn't mean sometimes or most of the time it could mean always.

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It just means it's dependent upon someone's frame of reference. Well, if it's dependent upon someone's frame of reference to someone is

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God, who is the universal creator, beginner of all things, reveals what is right and wrong and the consequences that you'll face for for not obeying him.

27:30

OK, well, you mentioned torturing babies. I want to the there is a passage where King David's son, infant son was being tortured and then killed by God.

27:44

Right. Being tortured and then killed by God. Hmm. No, the infant was struck.

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My son died ill. Yeah. Yeah. It was a birth defect. My my son had a birth defect and died in my arms.

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He wasn't tortured by God. I'm really sorry to hear that.

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I'm not going to make this personal. No, it's OK. I get it. But I'm just saying you need to pick your words carefully.

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Most atheists, you'll do what a lot of atheists do. You try and use an emotional thing and you change how things are.

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Oh, God tortured. Really? Where do you get that? He what you're doing is not being objective.

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You're being subjective again. And then you're using emotionally laden words to try and and do a strong man, not a steel man argument.

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You see, you're making mistakes. Well, God caused David's infant son to be sick and then die.

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Is that false or true? Probably true. I have no problem with that. And when it comes to the law of Moses, which is,

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I guess, really the law of God, right? There's two different things. There's thou shalt and there's shalt.

28:54

Two different things. Right. So if God gives us a law about farming, that's not for God.

28:59

That's just for us. But it doesn't say that it is. Huh? It doesn't say don't harm.

29:05

God doesn't say that can't harm anyone. Oh, no, no,

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I'm not. I'm not saying that my morality is that God has what. But God did say that, you know, I'm saying, you know,

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I'm thinking if you're going to represent Christianity, do it accurately. Most atheists don't. OK, I would like to represent it accurately.

29:25

There is a passage that says that the son shall not be put to death for the sin of the father and vice versa. Right. Right. Uh huh.

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And what's wrong with that? Yeah, this is a this is a shout. It's not a thou shalt not put a son to death.

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It's a son shall not be put to death. Right. Yes. So if God can break that rule, meaning he's the only way to interpret this, the execution of David's infant son is that God can break his own rules.

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And then this kind of puts morality into into waters I can't understand, because if God can

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God can do whatever he wants because he's sovereign, then what's it even matter what morality is?

30:06

It's it's more of a divine divine command theory rather than what actually is moral. Well, how do you know what moral is?

30:14

You have no standard. Don't you see the problem with your subjectivism, trying to lay guilt at the feet of God himself?

30:25

You have to have a standard. I have a subjective experience of reality. I know what

30:30

I feel is wrong to me. And so I would try to abide by that and be consistent and not do things to other people that I would not want done to me.

30:40

Oh, so it's a selfish motivation. OK, no, no, it's not selfish.

30:47

It's based on how I view the world. It's not about it's not about what's best for me.

30:53

It's about what I don't want to do things to other people that I don't want done to myself.

30:58

That's not selfish, I don't think. Yeah, it is. It's based on what you want. I don't want anything to happen to others.

31:06

It wouldn't happen to me. That is not just a standard based on what you prefer. Well, when you say the word selfish, people usually think of the word greed.

31:16

I'm not I'm not I'm not saying it's in a greedy sense. No matter what's happening to me, regardless of what outcome might occur later on,

31:24

I don't want to do things to other people that I think are wrong. Yeah, but OK.

31:31

So, I mean, you don't realize what you're doing. Is that you're just offering subjective preferences.

31:41

That's all you're that's all you have. I mean, I don't like I don't like. Well, OK, you don't have to like.

31:46

But so what does that mean? You don't like it. You know, it's like saying, well, I don't like round circles when they're blue.

31:54

I don't like circles when they're blue. OK, now what? Now what?

31:59

Yeah, I'm well aware that this is what I prefer. I'm not. It's not. Well, I'm saying that there's there's no objective morality being nonsensical, nonsensical to me to say there is or is not.

32:16

And I'm saying I don't understand how there could be objective morality and the idea of it makes no sense to me.

32:23

An objective moral would exist if God existed, right? Isn't that true? That makes it not objective because it's subject.

32:30

It's subject to his existence. If morality is subject to his existence, that's not objective.

32:37

It's objective to you. There's a universal being out there. God, he is the standard of holiness and righteousness.

32:44

It's morality's objective to you. It's not subjective to him either. He doesn't do this on a whim.

32:51

He does not just, oh, I think maybe I'll do this good or bad. Yeah, I'll decide. That's not how it works.

32:56

He reveals what is absolutely right out of his absolute and perfect character that is immutable, unchangeable and holy.

33:04

That's the only standard. That's the only ultimate standard. Therefore, it goes with him.

33:10

And when atheists tell me, well, it's subjective to him, therefore, subjective, they're playing with words. Subjectivity to you is what we're talking about.

33:17

The atheist comes in and says, well, it's a subjective moral. OK, well, yeah, if it comes from you and your preference.

33:22

But if it's subjective to you, if there's a universal standard, right? Yes. And they agree.

33:28

But then they go, well, it's subjective to God. And they play this game. All you're trying to do, in my opinion, is find a reason to deny the truth and your responsibility before God.

33:39

We've got another break, so hold on, OK? Hold on, OK, folks, we're right back after these messages and hopefully we'll get further down the road with this guy.

33:47

I love talking to atheists. Be right back after these messages. Please stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live!

34:03

Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

34:09

All right. Welcome back to the last segment of the show. Dave, are you still there? Yeah. Oh, I just want to offer something up, by the way, what you quoted, the stuff you put to death for the sins of the father that deals with legal matters in the context of Deuteronomy, if you were to read that.

34:25

So it's not talking about what you raised it up to be. You need to always remember the context of something that you cite in Scripture.

34:32

Nevertheless, back to the issue of objective morality. See, I think you're just trying to find a way to deny your responsibility before God.

34:42

That's what I think. Well, no, I just if there's a way to make a morality objective in the sense that it doesn't have to come from anything, then that's what

34:56

I would think objective morality is. If it has to come from somebody, no matter who it is, if it's God, doesn't matter, it's subjective.

35:04

Of course not. But how about this?

35:10

Last time I called in, I wanted to see if there was anything that you had to sort of, you know, throw at atheism.

35:18

And I think we talked about your transcendental argument a little bit. And then and then we talked about this.

35:25

Is there another thing that you would say is like a weakness of atheism that you want to just throw at me?

35:32

Oh, sure. Atheism cannot account for universal morality and obligations of right and wrong.

35:38

It cannot account for transcendental necessities, and it cannot account for our origins. These are the three categories that are most important philosophically.

35:47

And atheism fails in all of them. Well, we kind of touched on the first two.

35:52

The what do you mean by atheism cannot account for our origins? Well, you came into existence because of your parents who came into existence because of their parents.

36:02

And it goes backwards and backwards, right? It can't go back infinitely. Are you familiar with that problem of an infinite regression of causes?

36:13

This is a Munchausen trilemma. There's yeah, there's either infinite regress or an undefined term like a primitive term or cyclical.

36:26

So it's a problem playing the language to know it's not. If it's cyclical, then you still back to the infinite.

36:34

You have an infinite set of things. But can an infinite number of events occur and then having a traversing of those infinite events?

36:43

You can't do that. You cannot cross an infinite number of events to get to now.

36:50

The illustration I use is let's say you and I are on an infinitely flat white surface in every direction.

36:56

It's infinite. In front of us is a line of dominoes. And we're talking about our about infinity.

37:03

And behind us is an infinitely fast spaceship. And here we are discussing this.

37:09

And we hear a noise coming from our left going to our right. And it's the sound of the dominoes falling as it passes us now towards the right as in the future.

37:20

So it's going to continue on forever. But what we're curious about is the origin. Do we get in our infinitely fast spaceship and go back to the origin?

37:29

And we realize, wait a minute, there is no origin. It's an infinitely long line. We're going infinitely fast.

37:35

We're never going to find the beginning because there is no beginning. But wait a minute. If there is no beginning, there's no first event.

37:43

How do you have a second or a third to get to where we are? In fact, if an infinite amount of time has been traversed to get to where we are standing.

37:52

Just to to hear that, how is it possible that an infinite number of dominoes fell before it ever got to us?

38:00

It can't. It doesn't make any sense to say that there's an infinite number of events preceding us.

38:08

It does not make any sense. OK, so you can't say that there has to be a single uncaused cause.

38:16

That cause is either personal or impersonal, and if it's personal or impersonal, there's only two options that it has to have the necessary sufficient conditions.

38:24

We can talk about that. And then you apply what's called a disjunctive syllogism. If there's only two options to count for something, just to a personal

38:33

God or personal beginning or a non personal beginning, there's no in between. Well, if that's the case, you negate one.

38:39

The other is automatically justified. It's called a disjunctive syllogism. And if I can show you that the impersonal cause is impossible due to the necessary sufficient conditions logic, then it necessitates the other person, other positions.

38:52

True. There's a personal cause. This is the basics. OK, I've done this many times with atheists.

39:00

Well, there's a flaw in there, so I know you're not saying that I said there's an infinite regress, but I'm just to say that right now,

39:09

I'm not posing that. But you're saying there had to be an uncaused cause. That's false.

39:15

It cannot be true. You mean there has to be every cause is preceded by a previous cause, right?

39:24

No. So let me let me clarify. So the beginning of the universe, whether God created it, whether it's the

39:30

Big Bang or whatever you want to call it, it cannot have been through causality, it could not have been caught. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

39:40

You're not talking about magic now, are you? That thing's just not going to happen for no reason. Well, OK, let me let me let me define causality.

39:49

I don't know how to define causality without using the universe. There's two different ways that I know of.

39:54

Number one, it's just a shorthand way of saying system A turns into system

39:59

B over a duration of time. Right. Or you could say that you can use

40:05

Aristotle's model. He's got four causes, really just care about the two efficient cause, material cause.

40:12

And if the universe doesn't exist at some snapshot of reality, then there's no material cause for the universe to come from.

40:22

So there could not have been a cause of the universe. Oh, magic. OK. Yeah.

40:28

There's no reason something to do. I'm not saying it's magic. I'm saying we don't know what it is. Sure it is.

40:34

Well, yeah, yeah, you are. Look, look, you're saying there's no real cause to it. It just kind of occurred. And this is what you want to hang your hat on.

40:42

What I'm saying is causality is a phenomenon that occurs only in our universe and something that precedes the universe.

40:51

You can't use the universe to create the universe. You can't use things in the universe to create the universe.

40:57

Causality only exists in the universe. So causality could not have been involved in the creation of the universe.

41:03

How do you know? Because that's my understanding of causality. Sorry, sorry,

41:11

I'm sorry. You don't know what you're doing is you're talking about a condition of existence that you have no idea what it means.

41:18

And you're saying, I don't know what it means. It just happens to happen that way. Don't need a cause for it. Do you understand how incredibly irrational that is?

41:27

What you're doing, you don't even realize it. Yes, it is. Are you? Are you claiming that causality can precede the universe or exist outside of it?

41:39

Yes, because the universe didn't bring itself into existence because something that doesn't have does not have an ontos has no properties, no characteristics.

41:48

Nothing is simply what rocks think of. There's no ability or anything. It can't bring itself into existence.

41:55

It's just not logical, possible. Wait, wait, wait. Hold on. So if there's this thing that, you know, nothing comes from nothing.

42:05

Right. And that's self -contradictory. Wait, to say nothing comes from nothing refutes itself.

42:14

Yes. So something comes from nothing. So let me say it like this.

42:21

Let me say like this. Everything that that we see in a reality, even beyond the universe, we would think it can be modeled by rules.

42:29

Right. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Let's get back to this. Are you saying that something happens for no reason? There's no cause.

42:35

It just happens. OK, so let me let me clarify. I'm not expecting tricycles to appear in outer space.

42:42

Well, why not? Outer space is not nothing. Well, because you are not nothing. Yeah, you are.

42:48

No, because outer space is not nothing. It's there. But I said nothing comes from nothing, which is true. You say it's not true.

42:54

That means something comes from nothing. That's what you're saying, right? So if there is a rule, if there is a rule that says nothing can come from nothing, then that if nothing that truly exists,

43:09

I can't say nothing exists, but if nothingness is obtained, if there is nothing, if the state of reality contains nothing, then the rule nothing comes from nothing cannot exist.

43:20

And if it can't exist, it doesn't apply. Your parachute is not opening on this, OK? You're in free fall.

43:27

OK, look, if nothing has no properties, the rule from nothing, nothing comes does not exist.

43:33

Nothing has no properties, has no characteristics. It isn't anything. Yes, nothing has no potential.

43:40

It has no strength. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. You can't derive something out of something that doesn't exist.

43:46

It just doesn't work. It's logically impossible. There's nothing there.

43:53

It doesn't bring itself into existence because there is nothing. There's nothing. You're not saying if if I say to you, nothing comes from nothing and you say it's false, then you're saying that something comes from nothing.

44:06

How is that possible? Not necessarily. It's it's it's the most common health condition is that there just can't be nothing.

44:14

It's just not even possible. Well, how do you know from your perspective?

44:20

Because OK, so if suppose there's nothing, then the rule from nothing, nothing comes, doesn't exist.

44:28

So it doesn't apply. So you go. If if that rule doesn't apply, then what can happen?

44:34

Something can come from nothing and you're imposing a universal logical system upon an idea, the idea of nothingness, which we can't even describe.

44:43

It has no properties. But we can say that nothing has no properties. Nothing can come from it and it can't perform an action, which requires cognition and requires a laws of logic, which means that the laws of logic and nothingness aren't related to each other.

44:59

Nothingness as a concept is subjected to the laws of logic, which are universal abstract entities.

45:06

So, but again, you're you're you're doing a glass half empty approach here. You're you're saying that nothingness has no potential, but I'm also saying nothingness has no restrictions either.

45:18

You can't say that. OK, it has no restrictions because it's nothing.

45:23

Yeah, there are no restrictions. It's there's nothing you can't even apply anything to it. You can't say there aren't any restrictions on it.

45:31

You can't say that. Look, you're not thinking this is what atheism does to you.

45:37

It takes the hamstrings in your brain and it slices them. You just can't go very far.

45:44

You're actually telling me that you're understanding or trying to argue about what nothing is and how it can relate to actuality.

45:51

This is this is where you have to go. I asked you if it's always wrong.

45:57

I always I ask you if it's always wrong to talk to people like this. You said yes. From your subjectivism, you offer universal absolute, which you can't do that consistently from your position.

46:07

I show you that the universal transcendentals, if you want to talk about that some other time, you could talk about that and why atheism can't account for those either.

46:15

But now what we're talking about is causation. And now I can't believe you're telling me that things can come into existence on their own without a cause.

46:23

I'm just this is just a fun exercise. The idea what I'm trying to say is I don't think nothingness can even exist.

46:31

I think there has to be some wrong statement. Nothingness doesn't exist because it's nothing. There is no existence to it.

46:38

Right. So the state of reality in which there is nothing cannot be obtained. That's what

46:43

I'm saying. Right. And what's the cause of the universe? It's not nothing.

46:49

I don't know. There's already there already something. The cause of something precedes the something.

46:55

The cause is either personal or it's impersonal. If it's impersonal, we have logical problems.

47:02

And I can show you those when if you want to call back tomorrow, I can show you because we're out of time. If I can,

47:08

I usually work around this time, but I'll call back sometime when I can. OK. And you might want to go to my website.

47:15

Look up the issue of a theological argument. No, no, no. Don't use that one. Use the causation argument.

47:21

OK. And necessary sufficient conditions. OK. You get familiar with them. Atheists always stumble with these.

47:27

They always do. It's the same argument. Same thing. OK. All right. Hey, thanks for talking. All right.

47:34

All right. Well, it was a good conversation. I hope it was interesting and entertaining. And I enjoy it.

47:42

Hey, if you are interested in continuing this tomorrow, you get to wait till then. And I hope you have a good evening.