He Gets It But He Doesn't Get It - Part 6

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Let's get back to the old Sean DeMar's Doug Wilson thing. Happy Friday.

00:46

That's right. That's right. I have no idea where we are in this thing, so we're just going to continue. Man, I was watching the

00:53

Rangers last night. Man, two overtime games in a row. I hate playoff overtime because, well, you know, if you lose, it's just a waste.

01:04

But we won twice in a row, so I love playoff overtime. It's wonderful. It's the most exciting overtime in all sports.

01:14

That's the truth. That's the truth, man. The Rangers are looking unbeatable. It's just ridiculous. The Rangers are looking unbeatable.

01:20

There's no weakness to the game. And when you have the best goalie in the world, I mean, it just makes things that much more fun.

01:30

But yeah, so let's just dive right in. From, well, it's from our church.

01:36

And by the way, I hope I don't, I'm not trying to sound like a victim. I'm trying to be funny. Okay. I mean, it's true, but if they're from our church.

01:43

I remember. I remember now. This is where I told

01:49

Sean to grow up because he was complaining about all the people at Doug's church that were mean to him online.

01:55

And Sean, Sean is a smart guy. And I think that, I think that Sean gets it a lot more than a lot of Big Eva kind of people.

02:07

And then like the up and comers in Big Eva, which I put Sean in that category. He gets it a lot more than others.

02:14

And so he says, oh, you know, I wish you would have told those people at your church that were so mean to me.

02:21

And he, he realizes that he might've said something he shouldn't have said, which he definitely did. Cause it sounds like a whiny little baby.

02:28

So he says, oh, no, I was just kidding. I was just kidding. I don't, maybe he was, maybe he wasn't, but it doesn't matter.

02:34

The damage is done at that point. You do sound like you're whining and you know, you do got to grow up and this is the internet, right?

02:41

I mean, every single movement, no matter what side, no matter what issue it is, has people that harass them online and mock them online.

02:50

I've got my fair share. It's as simple as that. But you never hear me talking about it.

02:56

And why is that? Because who cares? It's just some Yahoo on the internet. Who cares? And even if you have someone mocking you in real life, like, you know, there are times when you fight people like that.

03:08

There are times when you, when you step to them, you know, especially if they're trying to check you, you know, there's, this is the thing, like, you know, men have to realize that there's, there's a time for everything under the sun.

03:20

You know, like, like I'm actually, I'm writing, uh, my, my talks for the upcoming conference I'm going to, by the way, check it out.

03:26

It's the men's, uh, intensive at the shepherd's crook. Check out the conference. I'll, I'll, uh, I'll try to put the link in this video.

03:32

Cause, uh, last time I didn't do it, but, uh, there's a time for everything and you got to realize sometimes there's a time to fight.

03:40

And sometimes when somebody's, uh, mocking you or something like that, you just ignore it. Um, you know what

03:46

I mean? You see this in, in, in, in, in like professional sports, like, you know, you'll get jeered by the crowd.

03:51

You just pretty much tune that out. Right. Um, but you know, if someone's checking you and it's, you know, that kind of thing, there might be a situation where it's not appropriate to ignore that you got to stand up to your, for yourself, that kind of thing.

04:04

And so, um, anyway, every, every side has people that mock on the internet.

04:10

It's not a special thing that he, Sean and friends try to make it like a special thing with Moscow. It's really

04:16

Moscow's fault that they've got these people that, that they learned to mock from you, dog, it's your fault. And it's like every single side has these idiots.

04:26

It's as simple as that. And I'm not calling my side idiots. Cause I think a really not, but there are mean people out there.

04:34

We understand that we really understand that, but every side has them. Uh, it's as simple as that church that it'd be worth us knowing about.

04:43

So basically if someone's under our care pastoral care and they are off the leash online, that's something we pastor.

04:52

So if, if we're responsible for them, um, and someone said, Hey, so -and -so is out there going after that.

04:59

They will get a note or someone will check in with them. That's something we care about. Uh, if someone in South Carolina...

05:05

And why shouldn't they? And why shouldn't they? I mean, your behavior online is, is just part of your behavior in general.

05:11

And so, uh, of course your pastors should care about it. Um, but, but again,

05:17

I'm, I'm not going to accept, uh, Sean's word that these people were being inappropriate online.

05:23

I mean, they probably said something, um, maybe a little bit edgy, but it probably wasn't that inappropriate.

05:29

Um, and some, maybe some of them were. Um, but yeah, of course pastors should care about that and should be, um, involved in their people's lives enough to know kind of what they're up to on the internet and stuff like that.

05:40

It's part of your life. It's not just, it's not disconnected from your life. People like to say that Twitter's not real life.

05:45

And I understand what they're saying when they say that. And a lot of times they're right, but also it is real life.

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You know what I mean? It is part of your life. It's part of your behavior. Ina is doing that and I don't know anything about it and I don't know who he is, but he claims he's inspired by me.

06:02

Um, yeah, that's a world's a fallen place. Okay. So yeah. And they really, they really shut that one down too.

06:09

Cause, cause what Sean was attempting to do, uh, was to lay at the feet of Doug, all kinds of people, not just people at his church.

06:17

So, you know, he's like, you know, there's so many people inspired by you that, that made fun of me. They were mean to me.

06:23

They were mean to Ligon. And it's like, grow up first of all. And second of all, um, well, yeah, if they're at my church and they said something that's, uh, that's inappropriate or not becoming of a

06:33

Christian. Okay. Well, we'll talk to him. We'll see what it's like. You know, we'll, we'll, first of all, look at it to make sure that you're actually correct.

06:39

And, um, cause I mean, quite frankly, you know, Sean's standard is, um, not correct.

06:46

It's he's, he's got a very, uh, very low tolerance for edgy language. So first of all, is it wrong?

06:52

And second of all, if it is, okay, yeah, well he's our person, but if he's not our person, if he's just some random person in New Hampshire, uh, named

06:59

AD Robles and he said something that I don't agree with, well, I mean, that's, that's up to his pastor. That's not my fault.

07:05

That's not up to me. I have no responsibility for people like that. I've got no duty to people like that.

07:10

Um, cause I've given the qualifications, I've told you what I'm doing and what I'm not doing. And if, so he's not listening to me, what is it has nothing to do with me anymore.

07:19

You know what I mean? I, I did what I had to do in that situation. Um, so they shut that, that down real quick.

07:25

They're about to put the nail in that coffin in just a moment. Uh, let's find out. I think through this, this is a legitimate question.

07:34

Um, on the one hand, you, you know, that the, that you're influencing people to at minimum embrace mockery, sarcasm, so on and so forth, but you're trying to put up all the right guardrails.

07:48

You're trying to do that on top of a solid foundation, but you know, it's going to go awry. Where do you, uh, accept responsibility or how do you accept responsibility when it does?

07:58

It's a legitimate question. Sure. You can ask that question and I totally understand what you're asking, but it's a stupid question.

08:06

A very stupid question. A question that any pastor and Sean, you're a pastor and I'm assuming you're a good one.

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Any pastor should know the answer to that question because we hear that accusation about the words of God every single day.

08:29

They misinterpreted your words, God. I mean, where do you, uh, how are you responsible for someone that hears someone say

08:38

XYZ and says, oh, see Jesus approved gay people. He approved the gay relationship with the

08:43

Roman centurion. I mean, God, couldn't you have been clearer? Where is your, where's the blame on you?

08:51

So sure, Sean, it's a legitimate question, but it's a stupid question. And if you could just take your big

08:57

Eva goggles off for five seconds, where Doug Wilson is the villain of every story, you would see how stupid that question is.

09:05

It's a stupid question. Now that's how 80

09:10

Robles says it, but Joe Rigney is about to completely devastate

09:18

Sean's ridiculous, stupid question. And when, by the time Joe was done with him, you're going to know, and Sean knows how stupid his question is.

09:29

And he does it with a smile on his face and a very, very warm demeanor.

09:34

Joe Rigney. If I had a hat, I would take it off to you. So I I'd flip this around and just to get to take it out of the mockery thing and put it in someplace else and see what would you do?

09:47

Yeah. So say you were going to write a book encouraging people to be gentle and lowly, just for example, just,

09:52

I mean, this is, this is the thing you see, let's, let's go back a few seconds.

09:59

Let's see, where are we? We're at 13, 17. We're going to go to 13, uh, four.

10:05

Let's just do that. Um, and look, look, look, look at Joe's face.

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Now there's two ways to call someone's question stupid. You can just say it like I do, or you can give them the look and Joe Rigney chooses to give them the look.

10:27

So I'd, I'd flip this around and just to get to take it out of the mockery thing and put it in someplace else and see what would you do?

10:35

Yeah. So say you were going to write a book encouraging people to be gentle and lowly just for look at the luck.

11:01

Oh man. Give me a sec.

11:08

So anyway, you got it together. This is the look that you remember from, uh, your mother or your father or your grandfather, you know, whoever raised you.

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And the look basically says, I'm not even mad. I'm just disappointed.

11:31

Dagger to your heart. You get this look and you just feel that dagger and you're like,

11:37

Oh, how can I be so stupid? So gentle and lowly, right?

11:46

You write a book about gentle and totally safe book to write in big Eva land. Dane Ortlin, Gavin Ortlin, one of the

11:53

Orleans, they wrote the gentle and lowly book. And that's the whole big Eva program. You know, you're not supposed to be mocking and, and, and, and, uh, and, uh, doing using sarcasm.

12:04

It's you're supposed to be gentle and lowly, gentle and lowly. That's, that's Sean's thing. So what if you wrote a book called gentle and lowly?

12:15

He's not mad. He's just disappointed. For example, just for example, say someone wrote a book like that.

12:21

Okay. Um, and let's say that you put up guardrails saying, of course we know that Jesus wasn't always gentle and lowly, but also had a heart.

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And you said, you acknowledged, um, this is one form and it's directed towards confused sheep and cheap without a shepherd and so forth, but to wolves, he came down hard.

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And then somebody then took your book, gentle and lowly and decided to go all woke and let in all the wolves in sheep's clothing.

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And then somebody said, look what you did. And you said, no, no, I said that you ought to fight the wolves and you ought to draw the lines.

12:53

And we got to be clear, but then within that we love and we show compassion and care. I'd say to that, in that situation, then you did your, you fulfilled your duty.

13:01

You put up the guardrails and somebody else jumped over them in order to do what they were going to do. And nobody, it's funny how it's on this is it's on the use of mockery where people, the whole, this is the whole kind of way people are re -imagining, uh, uh,

13:17

Tim Keller after his passing. You know, they're saying to Tim Keller was right the whole time, but you know, a lot of his followers, they went too far and stuff like that.

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So they know how to do this. They understand what this is all about. Um, and they're wrong about Tim Keller.

13:32

Tim Keller was awful in his own right. Uh, but this is, this is what they do this.

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They know how to do this, but they don't do it with Doug. Raise this question, but not in the other place in a cult.

13:45

It's, this is the fire. This is Lewis's statement about we're always prone to bring a fire extinguisher to a flood, right?

13:51

Um, and if you look around, one of my questions when people have acknowledged, as you did at the beginning, um, you know, everybody acknowledges that mockery and satire have a place in the biblical storyline.

14:02

Prophets did it, Jesus did it, Paul did it. Not everybody acknowledges that. Not everybody acknowledges that.

14:08

Joe is being generous, but he is wrong. This is me, this might be the first time that I'm disagreeing with Joe Rigney here.

14:14

Not everybody acknowledges that a lot of people, a lot of people, while they acknowledge that Jesus did it and the prophets did it, they will tell you that you're not

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Jesus and you're not a prophet. So you can't do it. And I always thought that was one of the most brain dead arguments

14:35

I've ever heard. Cause nobody would say that about being gentle and lonely, lowly. Oh, well, you know,

14:40

Jesus was gentle. He was lowly, but you're not supposed to do that. You're not Jesus. What are you, Jesus? It's insane.

14:47

So, you know, Joe is being generous, but not everybody agrees with that. It has its place.

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Just look at my mentions! Nevertheless, here's the hard question for you. It's like, well, where are the other people?

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Is anybody else, other than, say, the Babylon Bee, faithfully doing it? Even attempting to do it?

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Or is it sort of like, this is the one sword in the arsenal that never gets brought out?

15:14

Why do you think some few people decide to use this tool? We're going to talk about that in just a minute, but one of the things that I'm doing for my talks at the upcoming

15:22

Shepherds Crook Intensive, or what is it called again? I don't know, but the conference that I'm going to, the fishing conference.

15:32

Yeah, one of the things I'm going to talk about is the book of Ecclesiastes, and Ecclesiastes 3, you know, very famous passage, and I think about this all the time, because everybody knows this passage.

15:43

They even wrote a song about it, a secular song, or I think it was a secular song, I don't know. But it's like, everybody knows this passage, but people pretend like it doesn't say what it says, and when you're a man, you've got to decide what time it is, right?

16:00

That's why people always say, you don't know what time it is. You don't get it. That's why you're not going to make it.

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But there's a time for everything. To everything there is a season, and to every, a time to every purpose under the sun.

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A time to be born, a time to die, a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted.

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A time to kill, and a time to heal. People pretend like there's no time to kill.

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There's a time to kill, and a time to heal. A time to break down, and a time to build up. People like to pretend like there's never a time to break down.

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Only a time to build up. That's not what it says. A time to weep, and a time to laugh.

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People pretend like there's no time to laugh. You weep with those who weep, but you don't laugh with those who laugh.

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You don't celebrate with those who celebrate, if it's not approved. A time to mourn, and a time to dance.

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Is there ever a time to dance in Big Eva land, besides when the left does something that you, that's approved?

17:06

You get it. You guys get it. The time to rend. There's a time to sew, a time to keep silent, a time to speak, a time to love, and a time to hate.

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You must learn to hate, because there's a time for it. Neil Shenvey, you know, wrote a recent review of Andrew Isker's book, and he's talking about, you know, he had a quote out of the thing talking about how dangerous it is to be so angry at a trash world, and you hate things in trash world.

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That's not - Jesus has a better way! Jesus has a still better way! Neil Shenvey doesn't know what time it is.

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Neil Shenvey knows Ecclesiastes 3, but he doesn't know Ecclesiastes 3. And there are many, many such examples.

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They know Ecclesiastes 3, but they don't know Ecclesiastes 3. There's a time to hate, there's a time for war, and there's a time for peace.

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This is the, this is the thing, like, you get it, but you don't get it. And Sean DeMars gets it, but he doesn't get it.

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Because if he did get it, he wouldn't have asked such a stupid question. Because it's so effective, it is truly effective, it really gets in people's midst, and then they counterattack.

18:38

If you, if you start shooting live ammo, you're gonna get returned fire. You're gonna end up on right -wing watch.

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And the last thing any of these big EVA guys want is to end up on right -wing watch, where they're being mocked by the pagans.

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They don't want that, because that, they lose their respectability. It's not so much what is true that's important to people like this, it is about what they can get away with saying that won't lose them their credibility.

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That's what it's about. And so that's why very few people use mockery, because mockery is so good at getting what is true out there, that you will always lose your credibility.

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If you, if you put your finger on the point that directly, when you're nibbling around the edges and you're only, you know, saying things that you are, you know, yeah, they're true, but you can get away with it.

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Like you'll never, ever, ever get that return fire. You won't lose your credibility, at least not that fast.

19:43

You eventually will, but not that fast. That's why so few people are out there using it.

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But you know what? The numbers of people that are out there using these tools is growing every single day and that terrifies them.

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That's why we will never, ever run out of articles that talk about the dangers of social media, the dangers of the internet.

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That's why Neil Shenvey will write the same review of, of, of right -wing stuff again and again and again and again and again, and he'll say stupid, braindead things like, oh, we have a still better way.

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It's a still better way. Have been the recipients of return fire for a long, long time.

20:24

And on this question, here's another illustration. I've taught many classes, classroom things, and I've, I've given superlative grades to many students over the years, and I've flunked many students over the years.

20:39

I don't feel responsible for the students I flunked. No, right.

20:51

No, because they didn't do the work. Yeah. They didn't do a lot of my friends like Lana. I signed this and they didn't write the paper.

20:56

I signed it. So when students, when people are out there imitating me and they're flunking the course, they're not doing anything.

21:03

I said, their worst Doug Wilson impersonation. Yeah, that's John Dewey. Not that I want to quote him with appreciation too much, but John Dewey once said,

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Lord, deliver me from my disciples. So, so there are, there's a cohort of disciples that are in my name doing things that if they were taking a class from me on how to do it,

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I would be flunking them and, but they're not in my class. And so I, I don't feel responsible.

21:30

And this is the next thing. I, there's a chapter on this in mere Christendom. I think if Doug was grading me,

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I think I'd get a solid B minus. I get a nice solid B minus.

21:43

Maybe, I don't know. Doug, will you, will you grade me?

21:49

Will you grade my efforts here? It's the chapter on Jesus.

21:55

When, when you look at the, the Jerusalem in the first century, that place was a powder keg.

22:02

It was ready to go up at any moment. And the reason they had to arrest

22:08

Jesus at night is because they were afraid of the crowds. And it says this numerous places, the, the religious leaders were afraid of the crowds.

22:18

And then in Acts, when they go to arrest the disciple, the apostles, they, they brought them very gingerly because they were afraid the crowd was going to stone them.

22:28

Now it's very clear that these crowds had not gotten the sermon on the mountain memo.

22:35

They were like radical Trump supporters. They're ready, ready to start a revolution.

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They, there were the people who listened to Jesus teaching and got it. And there were people who were in favor of Jesus had been baptized by John, but who had maybe one third of what, you know, maybe heard a parable or something.

22:55

And they were hopping mad at the Romans and hot hopping mad at the, at the Jewish compromisers that were working with the

23:02

Romans. And they were an angry seething mob. Right. And in that moment,

23:07

Jesus went up to the temple and started flipping tables. Now is

23:14

Jesus responsible for what the mayhem that might happen if a riot broke out or, so Jesus was not pouring oil on troubled waters.

23:25

Jesus went to Jerusalem. He knew what was going to happen in Jerusalem. He arranged to, he went up to the temple complex to touch their eyeball and, and did this in a very provocative way, got arrested and was railroaded in the middle of the night.

23:41

And he did it in a, in a time when there were multitudes of people who would have taken his name and done it all wrong.

23:51

This is, by the way, I don't know why this video keeps doing this. This is the only video I watch that does this.

23:58

Does anyone understand this? Is this, is this on, is this on room for nuances side? I'm not quite sure what's going on here, but in any case, in any case, that is a very, very interesting little tale that Doug told there.

24:14

And I, there's something in there because I've been thinking a lot about this, that, that every, every movement, and I'm thinking in terms of politics, not so much what

24:27

Doug's thinking about here, but, you know, every side has their intellectuals.

24:33

Every side has their, their, their people that are a little bit more cautious, more, more careful, more nuanced.

24:42

And every side also has like their goons as well, that go in and they're, they're, they're, they're on the right side, but they're, they've got all the wrong tactics, or maybe they just go too far.

24:53

Maybe they're too zealous or too crazy. Every side has groups like that.

24:58

Right. And, and, and that's, I think that's necessary, right?

25:04

That's necessary. Now, I think that the, the more careful, the more intellectual among us, it's totally appropriate for them to sort of try to rein in their side and to try to get it to be more effective and stuff like that.

25:19

But what you don't want to do is start casting the people that are like the rebel rousers, like the rabble rousers, rebel, rabble, rabble rousers?

25:28

I don't know. The rebel rousers, the, the more, the more base level to try to cast them as the enemy.

25:37

Like, no, they actually are on your team. That's not your enemy. They're on your team. And you're not responsible.

25:43

Like if, if an intellectual goes out there and says, yeah, I'm against immigration. And here's my five point reasons why here's my

25:50

PowerPoint presentation. You know, he's like John Harris. He has his PowerPoint and all that. And he says something like that.

25:56

And then like, there's like the, the base level that say, yeah, I'm against immigration too. And then they go to the border and they're beating people up and stuff like that.

26:03

The five point plan guy is not responsible for the behavior of the goon. Right. But at the same time, at the same time, they are on the same team.

26:12

They're not enemies. And so this, this urge, like,

26:21

I think it would be appropriate for, for the, the, the, the John Harris type, the five point plan type to, to say,

26:29

Hey, you know, guys, we really shouldn't be beating up immigrants. Right. Like, that's probably not what you want to go and do, but, but it wouldn't be appropriate for them to say,

26:42

Oh, look at all those bigots. Look at all those racists. You know, we, they're just completely deplorable, you know, anti -American, like, like it would not be appropriate for the, for the five point plan guy to then use the tools of the enemy against people that are on your side.

26:57

Like there's something here where Jesus, like he wouldn't have approved of the crowd.

27:04

Like, like, like Doug is saying, using his example, but he didn't stop them. And he also didn't like alter his plans in and use the, the, the, the terminology of the

27:17

Romans to describe the rebel rousers, rebel, rebel. I don't know. There's something there, man.

27:23

There's something there. And it might have something to do with the, the friend, enemy distinction. Call me crazy.

27:31

Call me crazy. And well, that welcome to earth kid, you know, that's just simply the way it is.

27:38

If you, if you're George Whitfield, uh, you're preaching a great, you're a great revivalist

27:44

Doug Wilson, nice guy, all around warm, nice guy. Just told Sean, welcome to earth kid.

27:51

And Sean, I really hope you heard it. I really hope you heard it. And you might feel offended and you might feel a certain kind of way, but, but that's what you need to hear.

28:01

Welcome to earth kid. Is there going to be some 19 year old kid who wants to be a great revival preacher for all the wrong reasons and use all kinds of tactics you'd never use, but he's going to come behind you and sort of claim your name.

28:17

It's like, yeah, that's gonna, that's going to happen. And there's no way to avoid it. There's no way to avoid it. And you shouldn't try to stop it. You can help him.

28:24

You can teach him. You can shepherd him. You can, uh, uh, kind of like try to try to alter how he does things, teach him how to do it a little better.

28:33

You shouldn't try to stop it though. You shouldn't try to stop it. Whatever happened to Paul, you know?

28:40

Yeah. He's, you know, preaching the gospel for different kinds of reasons, but I'm just praising God. I'm just praising

28:46

God that the gospel is being preached. There's a lesson there. Say to someone like me who says in a vacuum,

28:54

I agree with everything that you've said about the serrated edge. Great little booklet, by the way.

29:00

It's also on audio book. If any of our listeners or viewers want to check it out, it's very good.

29:05

If you want to kind of hear the whole theory behind all this. But somebody who says, okay, in a vacuum,

29:11

I understand that for me personally, I'm so afraid that I won't use that. If you don't, if you only understand it in a vacuum, then you don't understand it.

29:22

It's just that simple because a serrated edge is not for a vacuum. So Sean, you get it, but you don't get it.

29:30

You need a serrated edge when things aren't ideal. You need a serrated edge in real life, not in a freaking vacuum.

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The serrated edge is for real life, the life as it really is with people as they really are.

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You get it, but you don't get it. So if you're so fearful that you can't use this tool in the toolbox, then you need to work on it because you're a pastor for goodness sake.

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You need to work on this. You need to put effort into it if you don't get it because Jesus provides the example and you are supposed to imitate

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Jesus. So if you're too afraid to imitate Jesus in every way as a pastor, then you're too afraid to be a pastor.

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You are too afraid to be a pastor. That's what you're saying. And so you don't have to do it the exact way

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Doug does it. You don't have to do it as often as Doug does it, but you need to understand that for every thing, there is a season.

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And if in your world, you're too afraid to understand, well, there is a time to kill. There is a time to break down.

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There is a time to hate. There is a time for war. If you don't get that, if you're too afraid to do that, then you are not qualified for the job.

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But I don't believe you. I don't believe you.

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You're not too afraid. You're too afraid to use it against the left.

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That's what you're too afraid for. You're totally comfortable using it against the right.

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But for some reason, the liberals among us, the progressives have beaten you down so much.

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They've demoralized you so much that you are afraid to use the tools in your toolbox that will actually move the needle.

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You are afraid to end up on right wing watch. And I think you need to go to God with that.

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That's what I think, because you're a pastor and it's just the job, Skippy.

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That serrated edge wisely, and I'll end up hurting people more than helping people. Would you say there's a time to hurt people?

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And sometimes that helps. Sean, if I were you,

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I'm not your pastor. But if I was, I would tell you to start every day and read and meditate on Ecclesiastes three.

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And I would ask and I would tell you, pray to God to show you what the times are, what the seasons are for each of these topics, because it's in the

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Bible and there's plenty of opportunities and plenty of times and seasons to kill, to laugh, to dance, to break down, to hate, to war.

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There's plenty of opportunities all around you every day because you live in the United States in 2024.

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And I would get on my knees and I would beg God, show me when the time is for me to do these various things.

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It's part of the job, man. You're a pastor. You're supposed to be the example that people can look to as someone who's working towards understanding this.

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Say I need to kind of just like, no, learn how to do it, bro. Or like, no, stick with that impulse. So learn how to do it because this goes back to your gentle and lowly point.

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Our people who are afraid of being too acerbic or too polemical or too belligerent, things that an elder must not be.

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An elder must not be a brawler, must not be a striker. We want to fit the qualifications of 1

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Timothy 3 and Titus 1. Um, and so they concentrate on being loving and kind and gentle.

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And I, I say, okay, is there no pathology associated with those, those virtues?

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Can they go pathology, meaning it can go pathology there, but that is rampant.

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That's the issue. There's a flood and we're bringing a fire extinguisher. It's like my example, the two ditches and we're all way over here and we're worried about this ditch.

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You should worry about this ditch. Yeah, badly wrong.

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Yeah. Yes. Not only can it go badly wrong, but it is doing so all over North America. It's destroying the church, the

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West. Yeah. Right. Uh, it's, it is the flood and, and people saying you can't have too much satire.

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That's the fire extinguisher. Um, so yeah, I go to the gym three days a week right now.

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And that's like me worried about making an idol out of fitness. And I go to the gym three days a week for a couple hours.

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It's like, I'm not even close. I'm not even close. It's like, that's like me saying, maybe

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I care too much about nutrition. And the only thing I'm doing is taking vitamins. I don't know of you.

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If we went out and tried to round up all the churches that are being torn apart because their pastor is too acerbic when addresses the sins of the age would come up with maybe 10.

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Right. If we had to round up all the churches that are rotting out from the inside because of empathy, because of nuance, because of all the things that they've, they've compromised on.

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And, and these are all virtues that have, that have become leprous. You know, really kindness really is a virtue.

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Gentleness really is a virtue. And one of the reasons why people don't want to come here is they don't want to see how happy our wives are.

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They don't want to see that it's a community where people love each other and they sacrifice for each other.

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It's not like we make fun of each other 24 seven all the time. It's just, it's a small fraction of what we do.

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And this is the thing. It's like, it's not that you don't worry about everything else. Of course you do. And I think about, you know, the fruit of the spirit, you know, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, all that stuff.

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I think about self -control, all of it. I think about it all the time and I practice it all the time because there's a time for building up in addition to breaking down.

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There's a time to heal in addition to the time to kill. There is a time to mourn in addition to the time to laugh.

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It's not like you ignore that, but the thing is we're getting all of this, this ink is being spilled and hours on YouTube about this particular thing and how maybe it could go wrong.

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I'm too afraid to use it. And none, none about the other side when that is our big problem.

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It is absolutely amazing. We're going to stop there. I was hoping to get Joe's answer as well in this one, but I didn't want to go to 40 minutes.