WWUTT 1275 Q&A To Mask or Not to Mask? That is the Question

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Does the Bible say anything about wearing masks? What about Christian liberty issues?

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What if your church requires you to wear a mask? What if the government says you have to wear one to go to church?

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These questions and others when we understand the text. This is when we understand the text, celebrating five years of podcasting.

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As we study the Bible each day to help encourage your time in the word. For more resources, check out our website at www .utt

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.com. Here once again is Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. Welcome to week 23 of two weeks to slow the spread.

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Yes. We're in this together, everybody. We're gonna make it. Yes. Everybody doing okay out there?

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I hope so. Actually kind of scary, some of the things that are going on and we're gonna talk about that today. I feel like I've got some severe case of cabin fever going on, like I fight it.

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They have more places open now. Yeah, in our community. In our area, but they require so many masks and I'm like,

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I'm not putting the kids through that. For children, all of them keeping the masks on, breathing through them, doing all that stuff.

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I don't know how they're gonna do that at schools. When they do the in -person schools, I just,

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I feel bad for them. I'm praying for them. Right, well, there's some good news coming out of this. USA Today, so you're even talking about a secular source, did a survey and 60 % of American parents are considering homeschooling their kids this school year, instead of sending them to school.

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That's, yeah, I hear a lot of feedback about it. The parents just not feeling like it's safe.

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People think that the masks are safe, but they're also not safe whenever you're sick and you're wearing a mask.

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Yeah. Because you're, I mean, you know. And that's something we're gonna talk about today here. They're actually not safe at all.

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We're gonna look at some of that information and hearing some of the stories about it as well. But beginning with Psalm 90,

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Lord, you have been our dwelling place in all generations. So as you're forced to shelter in place, the

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Lord is our dwelling place. Before the mountains were brought forth or ever you had formed the earth and the world from everlasting to everlasting, you are

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God. May we continue to place our trust and our hope in him for none of these things that are taking place are beyond his reach or beyond his control.

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Amen. And of course, we're dealing with the shelter in place orders and mask orders and you can't go to church and different sorts of things that are happening depending on where you live here in the country.

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But there are things to a much crazier degree happening in other parts of the world.

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Definitely. And we don't want to forget our brothers and sisters struggling in many other ways.

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I don't know if you've been keeping up with the kind of stuff that's going on in Lebanon right now, but we need to keep our brothers and sisters there in prayer.

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You're talking about over 300 ,000 people are left homeless as a result of that blast that happened last week.

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That's crazy. When the storage of the ammonium nitrate there in that harbor ignited and there was that massive blast.

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I think we've all seen the various videos from various angles of the fire and then the explosion that resulted from that.

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So we want to pray for the missionaries that are on the ground there, the different governments that are working to try to help with the recovery efforts.

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Things just went from bad to worse when the entire governing cabinet there in Lebanon resigned.

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So they're on the verge of becoming a failed state. Oh man. If the government, the governing order doesn't get their ducks in a row.

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I haven't heard all that. Yeah, so a really, really rough thing going on in Lebanon. So we cannot forget what's going on.

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I think all of us are perfectly fine with shelter in place and mask orders considering the things that are happening in Lebanon.

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A great way to keep up with some of this stuff is to listen to the world and everything in it.

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This is probably my number one go -to podcast right now for international news. I would say

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I'm listening to it more than the briefing with Albert Mueller now. So check that out.

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It is put together by, if you're familiar with World Magazine, they have the podcast half an hour long.

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Now I'd been listening to it on RefNet anyway, but then it was just kind of like, well, sometimes I miss it on RefNet, so I just got to subscribe.

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Yeah, just pull it up. Yep, listen to it on a pretty regular basis now. And they also do, what was the one that you and the kids would watch in the morning?

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World News at three. Yeah, World News in three. Yeah. Which is like three or four minutes. Yeah, it's real short, but family friendly.

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Definitely. Kids can watch. Brian Basham hosts that one, and his wife

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Megan is on the World and Everything in it. So apparently news is in the blood in that family.

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Today we're actually gonna be talking about masks, and that has to do with the first couple of questions we're gonna get to here in just a moment.

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I wanna come back to Lou and Evelyn from Poland. Remember reading from them last week? We answered a homeschool question from them.

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You did some research into. I did a little bit, yeah. Into the Monarch curriculum, I believe it was.

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So, Pastor Gabe and Becky, thank you for all the information that you provided for us on the podcast about Monarch and homeschooling in general.

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It is greatly appreciated. Just wanted to clarify that we were not the couple that had written before about the

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Bob Jones curriculum. Ah, okay. That was a different couple. I remember that later. The previous email was regarding discernment and Pentecostals.

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Thank you for clearing that up as well. So appreciate you listening in Poland. And all of our international listeners, don't forget to tell somebody about when we understand the text.

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Yes. That's how the word gets out about us, is you sharing it on Facebook or telling a friend about it or something.

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We've never paid for advertising. That's what I was gonna say, yeah. We don't pay for advertising, so it's all by word of mouth.

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That's right. I mean, we pay for a booth at G3 occasionally. And that has actually increased listenership.

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Yeah, it has. Every time we've been to G3, when we look at like the statistics on our podcast, it's gone up a little bit.

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So we can see that we've gained some listeners from the people that we met and interacted with there at G3, which isn't gonna be until October of next year now.

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But we've got - Yeah, Lord willing, amen to that. But we've got the Cruciform Conference coming up, and that you can find out more details about by going to, well, just go to Facebook and look up Cruciform Conference, because I think that's where they send everybody.

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Coming up in October, and you can register through their Facebook page. I'm gonna be speaking there,

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Michelle Leslie, whose name comes up on our podcast pretty regularly. Justin Peters will be there,

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Jeff Johnson, other names I can't remember off the top of my head.

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A bunch of people you're excited about. Lots of great names, that's right. Yeah, I don't remember who all's gonna be there.

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I just remember dates. It's at the end of October. Becky's terrible with names.

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I am. But she's good with dates. I'm getting there. Working on it. So speaking of dates, two weeks ago, we were celebrating five years of podcasting.

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Last week, we were talking about five years or 10 years of marriage, five years of marriage. 10 years of marriage.

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And this coming, well, it's tomorrow for me, is gonna be 10 years of pastoral ministry.

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I was ordained on August the 15th of 2010. I've been in ministry since I was seven, when

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I had my first radio show on a Christian radio station. That's true. Yeah, but as far as pastoral ministry goes, this is 10 years for me.

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And it's been wonderful. Thanks for being a part of it every step of the way, babe. You're welcome. This was your idea.

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Yeah. For those of you who know that story. And a shout out to your dad for happy birthday.

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Yeah, happy birthday to him. I can't remember if he turned 69 or 70 tomorrow, because I can't remember if he was born in 50 or 51.

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But it's one of those two. I don't, I'm not that good at this. You don't remember? I even talked to him on the phone yesterday and I forgot to ask him what year this was for him.

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So 69 or 70, he's hitting one of those two tomorrow. Well, it depends. Is he as old as your Uncle Mark?

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Oh, I don't know that. I don't know how old Uncle Mark is. He turned 70. Well, I don't know. Hi, Uncle Mark, happy birthday.

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No, that was about a month ago. Oh, okay. Like I said, Becky keeps up with dates.

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I'm working on it. I'm the one that keeps up with the names here. If you would like to submit a question, we respond to those questions on the

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Friday edition of the broadcast, and you can email us when we understand the text at gmail .com.

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This first question here comes from Chris, and he says, Pastor Gabe, could you make a what video about 2

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Corinthians 3, 18 and 4, 6, and whether they are relevant to inform our decision regarding wearing face masks at church.

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The context begins in 2 Corinthians 3, verse seven. If you have some initial thoughts, please share them with me.

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And I told Chris, I don't know that I've got the chance to get to a video on this. I'm about to actually do a series on race.

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So if the mask question's still relevant when I'm done with that, then maybe I'll get to it.

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But yeah, 2 Corinthians chapter three, let's start reading in verse seven.

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And we'll kind of establish our context here. And then we'll talk about this, how this relates to face masks.

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Where does this even come from? Okay. So 2 Corinthians 3, seven. Now, if the ministry of death carved in letters on stone came with such glory that the

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Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, will not the ministry of the spirit have even more glory?

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For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory.

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Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all because of the glory that surpasses it.

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For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.

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What are we talking about here? The glory on Moses' face as he's dying. No, not as he's dying.

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No, it was - As he's passing away. Well, yeah. It does. It does. You're right. It means that -

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I was listening. It means that the old covenant is passing away related to the law.

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Okay. So when Moses was in the presence of God on the mountain, receiving the law, that glory -

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Oh, this is then. Yeah, I know. I did, I kind of started in verse seven. Yeah, okay.

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Okay, so he came down from the mountain. He was coming down off the mountain with the stone tablets.

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Okay, I missed that part. Previously in verse three, it says, you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink, but with the spirit of the living

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God, not on tablets of stone, but on tablets of human hearts. Okay.

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Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything is coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter of this, not of the letter,

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I'm sorry, but of the spirit for the letter kills, but the spirit gives life. And so then we start talking about Moses coming down off Mount Sinai with the 10 commandments.

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Okay. And while he was in the presence of God to receive the law, even that was of such glory that when he came down off of the mountain, his face was glowing and the

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Israelites couldn't even look at him. Right. So now we are ministers of a new covenant that's even greater than the old.

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That covenant was passing away. Even as Moses was coming off the mountain, that covenant was passing away because we're coming to the fulfillment, which is in Christ Jesus, who fulfills that covenant.

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And now through the spirit, we have the law of God written on our hearts, not on stone tablets outside of us, but written on our hearts.

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Right. Okay? Okay. So that's the context. That's what we're talking about here. If what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent, that which is in the spirit have glory.

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Okay. So like what's eternal. Right, exactly. Yeah. There's more glory in what is eternal than that which was temporary.

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Right. Because the law is not going to be in heaven. Right. We're not following a law in heaven.

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Right. Because we'll be perfect. Right. We won't have to have the law. Yes. Okay. So even now we are not under the law, but under grace, because we're under the new covenant, which is an even greater glory.

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So anyway, going on, verse 12. Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the

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Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end. But their minds were hardened, for to this day, when they read the old covenant, the same veil remains unlifted because only through Christ is it taken away.

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Yes, to this day, whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their hearts. But when one turns to the

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Lord, the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the spirit and where the spirit of the

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Lord is, there is freedom. And we all with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the

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Lord are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another.

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For this comes from the Lord, who is the spirit. Okay, so there's our context.

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Okay. That's pretty much all of 2 Corinthians 3. Okay. Now Chris was asking about verse 18.

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Could you make a what video about 2 Corinthians 3 .18 and whether they are relevant to inform our decision regarding wearing face masks at church.

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So what was verse 18? Verse 18 was. The veil. And we all with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the

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Lord are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another.

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For this comes from the Lord, who is the spirit. The last verse there in chapter three.

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Chris also mentioned chapter four, verse six. And there it says, for God who said let light shine out of darkness has shown in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

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That one doesn't seem to be so clear regarding anything about masks. In fact, you may be listening to this going, well, none of that is clear regarding face masks.

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What does that have to do with face masks? This is where this comes from. So this was kind of the hoopla that was started on Twitter over this whole thing.

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A pastor by the name of TJ Tims, lead pastor of Emanuel Church in Nashville. He said the following, which was retweeted by several evangelical ministers as a legitimate reason for why we need to be wearing masks in church.

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Okay. He said, if Jesus can veil his glory and become a servant for us, then it's a privilege to veil our noses and mouths in order to serve others.

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You got it? No. So then at the Mount of Transfiguration with Peter, James, and John, Jesus up on the mountain, that veil was removed and his glory was revealed to Peter, James, and John.

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Right. Right. So Jesus becoming God in human flesh is apparently a theological argument for why we need to veil our mouths and noses when we go to church.

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Because if Jesus can veil himself, we need to veil ourselves. But if you're gonna use 2 Corinthians 3 to argue for that,

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I could use 2 Corinthians 3 to argue for why you don't need a mask. To this day, whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their hearts.

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So you're wearing a mask because you have a hardened heart. But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed.

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We're coming together as a church to praise God. Take your veil off. So yeah, if you wanna use this text,

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Isogetically, and what I just did there was Isogetical too. I'm not saying this text means take your mask off.

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Right. But if you wanna use it to say you have to wear a mask, I can use the same text to say, nope. It actually tells you not to.

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Yep, that's what Isogetical does. Yeah, that's what Isogesis does, exactly.

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If you can take your meaning and impose it on the text, well, I can take my meaning and impose it on the text.

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Exactly. So that's where all of that goes. And really, that's about as far as I need to go in answering that question.

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So Chris, I hope that that helps you out and maybe gives you a fair answer that you can offer to somebody else whenever they try to give you some sort of biblical rationale for why we need to be wearing masks with one another.

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Wear a mask if you want to, don't wear a mask if you don't want to. The only solid biblical case that I think that I have read regarding to wear a mask or not to wear a mask was given by R.

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Scott Clarke, and it was in his Heidel blog. This was back in, let's see,

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I think it was in July that he wrote this. I don't have a date on this, but it's called Of Masks and the Weaker Brothers.

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And so what he does is he uses the freedom principles, the Christian liberty principles that we have in Romans chapter 14 as to whether or not you should wear a mask.

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And one of the things that the apostle Paul says, and this is in 1 Corinthians chapter 10, he says, all things are lawful, but not all things are helpful.

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All things are lawful, but not all things build up. Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor.

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Eat whatever is sold in the meat market without raising any question on the ground of conscience. For the earth is the

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Lord's and the fullness thereof. Now, Dr. Clarke is using that text, and of course the liberty principles in Romans chapter 14 to say that we who are strong have an obligation to bear with the failings of the weak.

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And so if we know that by our liberty, we don't have to wear a mask, yet for the weakness of our neighbor, we should put on a mask so that we're not a hindrance to anybody, or even that as Christians, we come across as being unloving to those who are weaker in conscience because we're wearing a mask, or we're not wearing a mask.

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And so, well, you don't love your neighbor because you're not wearing a mask. Right. Okay. But here's the thing about that. You could argue even this principle from both sides.

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Yeah, I think that Dr. Clarke makes a good biblical argument. I think it's the best biblical argument that I've read for wearing a mask in this particular blog.

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Okay. But I still think you can argue it from both sides. What if the one wearing the mask is the one who is considered stronger, and the one without the mask is the one that's considered weaker?

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So wouldn't the one who is wearing the mask who considers himself strong in conscience be the one to take off his mask for the sake of the person who is not wearing the mask?

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Some people, because of their health ailments, can't wear a mask. Right. I actually, I can't do the mask.

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Now, I've been in places where I wear a bandana, like if I have to go to the grocery store and they're requiring masks in order to come in and shop.

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I'm gonna go in because I need to buy milk and eggs, you know, I gotta get groceries for the family.

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And so, I put the bandana on because it's much easier to breathe through than putting the cloth mask on.

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Putting the cloth mask on messes my voice up, and you know how much I need my voice.

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Yeah. I mean, even wearing it five or 10 minutes, it is, it exhausts, no pun intended really, my vocal cords.

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Yeah. And it, I don't have the stamina to make it through the rest of my day doing some of the things that I have to do in my recording.

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So I can't wear the cloth mask. Actually, for the job that I do, it is not helpful, it's harmful to me.

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So I wear the bandana just so I don't have to answer any questions about that. And I don't feel like my breathing is being hindered by the bandana, unlike the cloth mask.

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So look at this from the other angle. What if the person who is not wearing the mask is the weaker brother?

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Where the person wearing the mask is the stronger. So like I said, this is the best biblical case that I think that I've heard that Dr.

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Clark presents, but you could argue this the other way too. You know? I get it,

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I get it. Okay, so to wear the mask or not to wear the mask. Like I said, if you want to, wear it.

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If you don't want to, then don't. Be prepared that you're gonna get ridicule one way or the other.

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Oh yes, definitely. We are in the midst of mask wars right now.

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It is just absurd. And everybody has their opinion and everybody is correct on their opinion.

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And you cannot convince them otherwise, really, because it's their opinion.

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Right, yeah. And you can't tread on my feelings. Yeah, well see, another principle that's mentioned here in Romans chapter 14, welcome the one who is weak in the faith, but not to quarrel over opinions.

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Right. So we're using. But my opinions are truth. Yeah, of course, right.

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But we're using the principles of Romans 14 to say you should wear a mask.

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Right. I mean, and again, you could also use the principles of Romans 14 to not wear a mask. Don't quarrel over opinions.

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If a person is absolutely convinced that they should not be wearing the mask and you think that they're making that argument because they're weak in the faith, don't quarrel over opinions.

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So basically what you are saying is right now in today's society, it should be evident on who is a

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Christian and who is not. Based on whether or not they wear a mask? No, based on whether or not they're quarreling.

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Probably. I wouldn't say that's absolutely the case because I mean, the quarreling person could just be in a state of stumbling.

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You know what I mean? Doesn't mean that they don't have faith. But the person who is constantly quarrelsome, yeah, maybe so.

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Maybe they're revealing something about themselves and they need to examine themselves to see if they're really in the faith. Okay.

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As the apostle Paul puts it in 2 Corinthians 13. So just to self -check time. Yeah. It's a time of self -reflecting and just to make sure that you are where you should be.

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Yeah, at the present, it's a condition that we probably won't be in in 2021. We hope.

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To be quite frank. Yeah, God willing. But consider that the apostle

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Paul's instructions to Timothy was not to quarrel over opinions. 2 Timothy 2, 23 have nothing to do with foolish ignorant controversies.

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You know that they breed quarrels and the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach and patiently enduring evil.

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To Titus, Paul said, speak evil of no one, avoid quarreling, be gentle and show perfect courtesy to all people.

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And we have in James chapter four, where it says, what causes quarrels and fights among you?

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Is it not this that your passions are at war within you? And so here you, the constant delving into quarrels is a result of responding from your flesh.

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Definitely. Not a result of responding from the spirit of God, which the fruit of the spirit should be producing gentleness, self -control.

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Right. You know, these are among the fruit of the spirit that we have mentioned for us in Galatians chapter five.

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So it's your constant quarreling over masks. First of all, it's a completely trivial issue. Right.

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Now everybody is making it an essential issue, Republican or Democrat, whether you're talking about political or you're talking about wearing masks in church.

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Everybody is turning this into something major and essential. Listen to this. This was just from yesterday.

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This is Joe Biden, who of course is the leading candidate for president of the

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United States in the Democratic party. And he just this past week nominated Kamala Harris as his vice presidential running mate.

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So just yesterday, here's what Joe Biden said about wearing masks. I've put out a comprehensive plan over the last three months on each of these things.

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But today I want to talk about one thing, very straightforward. Doesn't have anything to do with Democrats, Republicans or independents.

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It has to do with a simple proposition. Every single

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American should be wearing a mask when they're outside for the next three months at a minimum.

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Every governor should mandate, every governor should mandate mandatory mask wearing

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The estimates by the experts are it will save over 40 ,000 lives in the next three months.

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40 ,000 lives that people act responsibly. And it's not about your rights.

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It's about your responsibilities as an American. So consider some of the things that he said here.

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So first of all, every single American should be wearing a mask when they are outside for the next three months at minimum.

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Where did he get that three months from? November, hmm. Because November is the end of the semester or something is what they were saying about schools.

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Cause there is something about the November was mentioned before and then it was questioned why

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November is it because of the election and they're like, cause it's the end of the semester. Sure.

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And it's like, no, the end of the semester is in December. I don't know where you go to school at, but whatever.

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The next three months from now is gonna be mid August to mid November. Yeah. That's three months.

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Wait until the election is over and then you can de -mask. I don't know. That just sounds funny to me. Outside though.

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Even when you're outside, yes. Every single American should be wearing a mask when they are outside for the next three months.

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I get it whenever you're at a riot and whenever you're in close proximity to people.

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When you're in a riot. Well, you know what I mean? I think it's funny that you said that instead of when you go to a peaceful protest.

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Oh yes, I mean, I'm sorry. I am not politically correct over here.

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Excuse me, a peaceful protest. You need to go to a peaceful protest.

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And. One of those protests like where the CNN reporter has like flames and buildings burning down around him and he's going, but this is all peaceful back here.

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Over here, they are just so peaceful. Nothing to see here folks. Yes, I understand, you know, they're close, they're like breathing on each other and that sort of thing.

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Okay, sure, wear a mask. Cause you're basically inside at that point. But out and about.

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Yeah, just walking around. I mean, we can be six feet apart still outside. Like even further apart, really.

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Yeah. I just don't understand. So also in here, he says the estimates by the experts are that it will save over 40 ,000 lives.

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I'm calling baloney on that. That's completely subjective. There's no way you can prove that.

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And we're gonna talk about some of these mask results. Like what the science actually says about this here in just a moment.

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Last statement, it's not about your rights. It's about your responsibility.

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I'm having a hard time swallowing that one. You can justify absolutely any order under that principle.

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It's not about your rights. It's about your responsibility. Yeah. And I feel like even when it comes to the

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Christian liberty discussion, that many ministers are saying that same thing. It's not about your freedom.

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It's about your responsibility. I'm sorry, I'm not buying that.

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You're sorry? Are you really? Becky hates that. I hate that. Saying I'm sorry, just like in a sarcastic manner.

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That is nails on a chalkboard. You gotta mean it when you say I'm sorry. But yeah, same thing, same principle there.

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You're just saying that can justify anything. It's not about your rights. It's about your responsibility.

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Well, what about masks are actually safe? Are they effective when we're wearing them, whether we're outside or whether we are indoors?

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Is the media actually telling us everything that we need to know about masks? Absolutely not.

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Some of you already know that at the beginning of this whole pandemic, I call it the COVID crisis.

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It's really more of a crisis. Yeah, I would agree with that. It has certainly caused a crisis.

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It is not as widespread as we thought it was going to be as a pandemic. It is less than a fraction of what we thought it was gonna be from the very beginning.

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But at the start of this whole thing, you know that you had medical experts coming out, being interviewed on the news.

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Fauci was one of them, Dr. Fauci. Even he, in interviews, was saying that the masks are not effective.

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It can catch particles from in the air. It can cause you to mess with your face more. And so they were already worried about the transmission of COVID through the eyes by scratching your eyes and things like that.

30:57

And that's still a concern. But that's one way that it gets into, it can potentially be getting into your body.

31:03

You had - Oh, that's why the goggles. That's why, yeah, Dr. Fauci then later said, hey, wear goggles, because then it prevents it from getting into your eyes.

31:13

I just say, if you're wearing the mask, you're wearing goggles, you're just blowing it right up into your eyes. Yeah, pretty much.

31:19

That's all you're doing. And he said the N95 masks, which really were the only effective kind of mask, needed to be saved for the medical personnel anyway.

31:29

And they're still saying that. One of the world's leading epidemiologists

31:34

I listened to at the start of this whole thing, and the question was asked of him, do the gloves and the masks work?

31:40

And he said, no, probably not. And I mean, this is a guy who studies infectious diseases.

31:45

And to this day, he's still saying that. He's still saying that they're probably not effective.

31:52

There's not been enough studies done on COVID -19 because this virus is so new.

31:58

It's a novel coronavirus. So therefore we don't have the kind of research that we can definitely point to it and say that it's not effective.

32:06

But based on what we know about other diseases that act the same way, the masks and gloves are ineffective.

32:12

With that in mind, there was a study that came out in May, and it was published by the

32:18

Center of Disease Control, the CDC, which according to everybody, the CDC is leading the charge on, you must mask up and you have to do whatever the

32:27

CDC says. You even have, who was it? Susan Cadone of the

32:32

ERLC saying that any pastor that would even question whether or not church meetings really violate

32:38

CDC guidelines, chances are that pastor also likely disputes the seriousness of sexual abuse and domestic violence in the church.

32:47

Oh my goodness. That's absurd. That's slander. That is awful.

32:52

To even question whether or not we can be wearing masks when we go to church and equating that with questioning a sexual assault victim.

33:00

I know, it's awful. But this is what the mask wars have turned us into. It's turned us into constantly accusing one another and suspecting each other of evil when 1

33:11

Timothy 6 explicitly tells teachers to avoid this kind of quarrel.

33:16

Oh my goodness. Anyone who does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and teaches a different doctrine instead of the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing.

33:29

He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, and constant friction.

33:39

Among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth. So this goes back to what you were saying earlier of, does this not reveal a person who probably isn't saved when they're willing to quarrel over things like that and even make those kinds of accusations of their brothers and sisters in the

33:55

Lord, that equating, well, you're not wearing a mask, maybe you would even doubt a person who says that they're a sexual assault victim.

34:02

That's terrible. That is incredible. So anyway, and oh, by the way, I did email the

34:09

ERLC about that comment twice and never got a response. So they know about it, but never replied to my appeals for do something about comments like this that are coming from people, even from within the

34:24

Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission. Going back to the CDC study, this was published in May.

34:29

It's the Emerging Infectious Disease Journal, volume 26, number five. And the article was entitled

34:37

Non -Pharmaceutical Measures for Pandemic Influenza in Non -Healthcare Settings, Personal Protective Environmental Measures.

34:45

So they're studying influenza and whether or not wearing masks will help to prevent the spread of influenza.

34:53

Also in the study, it was like cleaning surfaces, distancing from one another, not going to certain places, all of this different kind of etiquette measures.

35:03

Does any of this work in preventing the spread of influenza? Here is what they found.

35:09

In this review, we did not find evidence to support a protective effect of personal protective measures or environmental measures in reducing influenza transmission.

35:22

Although these measures have mechanistic support based on our knowledge of how influenza is transmitted from person to person, randomized trials, and remember, they exercised 14 different trials.

35:35

Okay, right. Randomized trials of hand hygiene and face masks have not demonstrated protection against laboratory confirmed influenza with one exception.

35:49

What do you think that one exception was? What's the one thing that we can do that would limit the spread of an influenza pandemic?

35:56

Oh, everybody's pushing wash your hands. Nope. Really? Sending kids to school.

36:02

Oh, really? If you keep your kids home, that reduces the chances that you could catch the flu in an influenza pandemic.

36:11

Now, I know that everybody is saying that COVID -19 is not the flu. Yes, I understand that, but we know now that it's transmitted the same way.

36:19

It's likely transmitted the same way. It is an aerosol, and it is contained in water droplets so fine that it can last in the air for one to three hours.

36:31

And that's not just talking off the top of my head. I got another article open in front of me here that's saying that very thing.

36:37

So anyway, this CDC article goes on to say, we identified only two

36:43

RCTs, which are randomized control trials, on environmental cleaning and no

36:49

RCTs on cough etiquette. So no matter how you cover your cough, the flu is still getting into the air.

36:57

Right. And it's still infecting the same number of people one way or the other. The masks don't make a difference.

37:06

Right. And this was a CDC study released in May, but we're not hearing about that.

37:11

Well, of course not. We don't hear about this study. Another paragraph here toward the end, we did not find evidence that surgical type face masks are effective in reducing laboratory confirmed influenza transmission, either when worn by infected persons or by persons in the general community to reduce their susceptibility.

37:34

So it doesn't even matter if you've got the disease or you don't have the disease, it doesn't make a difference in reducing its transmission.

37:41

Oh, wow. That's from the Center of Disease Control. Interesting. Here's something else from the Center of Disease Control, and this comes out in their

37:49

Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report that just released today on August the 14th, okay?

37:56

Okay. Over 25 % of Americans between the ages of 18 and 24 have seriously considered suicide in the last 30 days.

38:07

Oh, that's terrible. Over 25 % of Americans between 18 and 24 have seriously considered suicide in the last 30 days.

38:18

16 % among 25 to 44 -year -olds, much less in older age groups.

38:23

Over 65, less than 2 % have contemplated suicide. We have built a soft culture of young adults and now with no jobs, with nothing to do, with nothing but fear and panic constantly in front of their eyes every day.

38:41

They feel completely - In a world of it. Yeah. Because the internet is right there in front of them.

38:46

All the time. The whole world is in front of them on the internet. Yeah. Because we have created this culture of fear and meaninglessness and purposelessness, and there just seems to be no end to it.

39:01

Oh, wow. These persons are contemplating killing themselves. 25 % of Americans between 18 and 24 have also increased substance abuse due to pandemic -related stress or emotions.

39:14

20 % in ages 25 to 44 have increased substance abuse since the start of this whole thing.

39:21

That is awful. The New York Times reports that the most deadly diseases in the next half year may not be

39:27

COVID, but rather tuberculosis, malaria, and HIV due to the fact that we have limited resources because of the

39:38

COVID pandemic and because those measures that had been taken to reduce things like TB and malaria and HIV are basically, they've lost all of the progress they've made in suppressing the spread of those diseases.

39:54

They're gonna become more deadly than COVID -19. That is awful. We're panicking over a virus that doesn't even kill 1 % of the population, but some of these other diseases and suicide and substance abuse will kill many, many more.

40:13

Yeah. And yet we're having this discussion over wearing masks is loving.

40:18

Not discussion. Yeah, this quarrel. Oh, it's awful. Over wearing masks or not wearing masks is loving your neighbor.

40:26

There are plenty of other things in the world right now that may kill your neighbor than COVID -19, than whether or not you wear a mask.

40:34

So again, back to Biden's comment that wearing a mask could save 40 ,000 lives, hogwash. Open the economy back up, let everybody go to work, open the churches, because without church and preventing people from going to church, this meaninglessness and purposeless idea of existence is just gonna spread and get worse.

40:53

We're just talking about six months of this pandemic at this point, and yet 25 % of young adults have contemplated suicide.

41:01

That's awful. Just in the last 30 days. I listened to one doctor say that, and he was in California, and he was just talking about what he was seeing in California.

41:12

And he was saying in California alone, what they have seen as a result of suicide and substance abuse far surpasses the casualties and the devastation that has been wrought by the disease

41:25

COVID -19 itself. That is so sad. We're just not thinking this through.

41:32

And there are people that virtue signal, literally wearing it on their face, that, hey, look,

41:39

I'm loving my neighbor. It could be that loving your neighbor means you actually need to go next door and love your neighbor.

41:48

Yeah. Not think, hey, I'm sitting at home by myself, so I'm loving my neighbor. You need to reach out to people and love them.

41:57

Amen. There needs to be personal interaction between us again. There needs to be, you know, when it comes to sharing the gospel.

42:04

There are needs that need to be met. Yes. We need to be praying with each other. We need to be sharing the hope of the gospel with one another.

42:11

We need to be talking about Jesus with each other, not through screens. When you talk about the church being a called out assembly of people, that's actually what the word ecclesia means.

42:22

It is an assembly of people. When you're defining the church with that, with that understanding, the biblical understanding, it is inherent in that word of the church, in the word church, that we are a gathering, an in -person assembly of people.

42:38

And we need to be doing that and not letting fear over this virus keep us from meeting together.

42:44

Right. So I encourage the churches to open back up. I did in my article, you know, last week, telling churches to open back up again.

42:51

I wanna come back to another question here. This one's from Tony in North Carolina.

42:56

He says, dear Pastor Gabe, I really enjoy your podcast and videos. I've been listening to your podcast for about two years and watching your videos even longer.

43:05

My son and I met you at the G3 conference. This was just this past January.

43:10

Okay. You were kind enough to educate me on why a podcast I was listening to was dangerous. And I thank you.

43:16

Aw. The reason I am emailing you is our church has made masks mandatory. I have vocalized my position to the mask.

43:24

I continue to serve until the church made it a decision to have a homeschool group meeting at our church wear masks.

43:31

Our group has had to change churches. Thankfully, we seem to have found a church where we can meet.

43:37

When asked why the church decided to take such a stance, this is what was said.

43:42

Quote, there is no command from our Lord to not wear a mask. See, that just goes back into that eisegetical thing again.

43:51

There's no command from God to not wear a mask. There's no command from God to wear a mask.

43:57

Anyway, going on. I didn't say unquote. Quote, there is no command from our

44:03

Lord to not wear a mask, but he does command us to sacrifice ourselves for others and to obey our governing authorities.

44:10

Romans 13 goes so far to say, every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities for there is no authority except from God.

44:17

And those which exist are established by God. Therefore, whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God.

44:27

If one person stays healthy because of the discomfort and inconvenience of a mask, I think it's worth it, unquote.

44:35

Well, Tony, one thing you could do is give those statistics that I just gave and look up that article from the

44:42

CDC, non -pharmaceutical measures for pandemic influenza in non -healthcare settings. Personal protective and environmental measures from May of 2020, volume 26, number five.

44:52

All right, anyway, continuing on with Tony's email. There is no law stating that churches have to wear masks in the governor's executive order in North Carolina.

45:01

Executive order 141 specifically exempts churches from restrictions after the

45:07

North Carolina federal court decision. And EO 147 on masks is silent on churches and doesn't overrule

45:13

EO 141, executive order. I have stopped attending church due to the mask. I found myself concentrating more on the mask than the sermon.

45:22

I need advice. I know that I'm a prideful man and have the tendency to believe that I am right when

45:28

I have been wrong. Please point me in the right direction. I wanna glorify God. I don't wanna cause division in the church or heartache to my pastor.

45:36

I thank you for your faithfulness to the gospel in Christ, Tony. Well, Tony, I would recommend you that you sit down and talk with your pastor again about this.

45:46

Definitely. And tell him that, tell him exactly what you've just said. With humbleness, of course.

45:51

With humility, don't fight, don't quarrel over it. But if this is, if your pastor would agree that this is a

45:59

Christian liberty issue, obviously it's not a subjection to the governing authorities issue if the order there in North Carolina does not require churches to wear masks.

46:08

We're not required to do so here in the state of Kansas, praise God. Yeah, definitely. But even if, if Governor Kelly of the state of Kansas said, if you wanna attend church, you have to wear a mask, we would respectfully decline.

46:22

Mike Riccardi out at Grace Community Church. This is John MacArthur's church, by the way, in LA.

46:30

And we're praying for Grace Community Church. They filed a lawsuit against the state of California to defend the right to worship.

46:38

Los Angeles County then sought a restraining order against John MacArthur in the church after their lawsuit.

46:44

So yeah, we're praying for everything that's going on there and we appreciate John MacArthur's courage and his leadership in the midst of all of this and his steadfastness to preaching the word and the gospel.

46:56

Anyway, Mike Riccardi said, he put it like this, you may worship if, as long as Christ is the head of his church, that is a sentence that the government never gets to finish.

47:13

We render unto God the things that belong to God and render unto Caesar the things that belong to Caesar.

47:20

You don't belong to Caesar, you belong to God. And so you worship and honor

47:27

God with your body, Romans 12 one, first Corinthians six, we worship with our whole selves if wearing a mask prevents you from doing that, it's hindering you from worship.

47:43

Respectfully ask your pastor if you can come to worship and not wear the mask because wearing the mask is hindering you from being able to worship

47:52

God. Simply ask him that and if he understands the principles given in Romans 14, then he should allow you to come to worship and not have to wear the mask.

48:04

Maybe he's gonna say to you, hey, for the sake of everybody else's conscience, stand further back in the room.

48:09

Something like that, which would be fine. Be as respectful about this as possible. But express, there are people who are weak in conscience and believe they have to wear the mask.

48:19

There are other people who believe that they do not have to wear the mask. Whatever the opinion is, love one another, work with each other over this.

48:28

It's unfortunate that there's like this, the presuppositions that are being imposed upon everybody that the mask is inherently good and the mask is inherently stopping this disease.

48:39

And everybody has to operate from that base point. So if you wanna argue against that, well, then you're going against common sense and common logic.

48:47

The common logic is the mask is saving people. I actually think the common logic is quite the opposite, but I'm not gonna quarrel over that opinion.

48:57

From the very beginning, it did not appear to me that wearing a mask was gonna prevent a virus from getting into the air.

49:04

If you're breathing out a virus, wearing a mask is like using a chain link fence to stop a mosquito.

49:10

The virus is so small, small enough for the particles of air to be pushing it through the mask. It's not gonna make any difference.

49:17

And the CDC study that I just cited confirms that. When it comes to influenza and coronavirus is being transmitted in roughly the same way.

49:27

So anyway, all of that to come back to that and say, Tony, talk with your pastor about that, talk about these things respectfully, be considerate of one another, and hopefully in the principles of freedom and Christian love that we are given in the scriptures, we can talk about this in a loving and a gentle way.

49:45

I know that I sound like I'm getting excited when I'm talking about this. You do, you definitely do. Yes. But that's just the natural timbre in my voice.

49:53

Right. I'm generally boisterous and excited. Yeah, you are.

50:01

See, I've got the evidence of another witness here with me on that. I think that's everything.

50:07

I'm trying to think if I had, well, I had the other article here. I had this one up from Christianity Today. So this was an article that was published just a couple of days ago.

50:17

It was on August the 12th. So this would have been what, Wednesday? This is a pastor, and he's talking about how he contracted

50:26

COVID -19 from church. Okay. And there was another person at church who had it.

50:31

So he knows that's where he got it from. Okay. But he talks about all of the different measures that he followed to prevent either catching it or transmitting it.

50:41

Now, this article was written to try to discourage pastors from being so quick to open the church doors up again and welcome everybody back in.

50:50

Says you need to take precautions in this. And by the way, getting COVID -19 is not a death sentence.

50:56

Right. Less than, what was it? Less than one -tenth of a percent of people are dying of COVID -19.

51:03

It's still not fun. Sure, right. And there still could be long -term effects for some people that it harms more than others.

51:10

Everybody that I personally know who has had it has recovered with no residual effects. So you're talking about those who have pre -existing conditions are generally the ones that end up with a very serious case of this, one that could even be life -threatening.

51:27

Right. That's not to say that we shouldn't take this seriously. And even with everything that I'm saying here, don't hear me saying that this is not a dangerous disease.

51:36

It is. It's just not the threat that we were told that it was from the beginning of this pandemic.

51:41

It is not worth shutting down the entire economy over, especially when we consider there are many other deadlier things that people could be dying from than COVID -19, which this -

51:53

Exactly, very soon. Things are gonna get worse soon. Very quickly. And it's not gonna be because of COVID -19.

51:59

It'll be because of the shutdown that's exacerbated any of these other problems. But anyway, with what this pastor is saying here, he's sharing his experience to try to discourage pastors from opening up their churches too quickly.

52:13

But really, what I got out of this article was, masks don't work. Because he's talking about,

52:20

I stayed masked up and everybody around me was masked up and I still got COVID -19. Okay, well, that confirms what

52:25

I just said. The masks aren't working. That didn't discourage me from opening up my church.

52:30

It just solidified to me. Well, then that confirms my suspicions. The masks don't work.

52:37

If you're gonna get it, you're gonna get it. That's right. And that's the case in any pandemic.

52:43

It doesn't matter what the disease is. If you're gonna get it, then you're gonna get it. Now, Kamala Harris, a couple of days ago, she mentioned how successful the

52:52

Obama -Biden cabinet was in stopping the Ebola pandemic. They effectively stopped the

53:00

Ebola pandemic and Donald Trump couldn't effectively stop the COVID -19 pandemic. Ebola was never a pandemic.

53:08

I was gonna say. It was an outbreak. Yes, outbreak. It was not a pandemic. So that's just simply absurd.

53:16

The two diseases don't operate the same way anyway. But when something becomes a pandemic like this, if you're gonna get it, you're gonna get it.

53:24

And it's just gotta work through the population. The more that we isolate ourselves and keep ourselves away from one another, the more that we make ourselves susceptible not only to this disease, but other diseases.

53:34

Because we're not building up our immunity. This is a dangerous method that's being practiced regarding COVID -19.

53:41

But, I mean, my suspicion is it's entirely political. And like Joe Biden said, it'll be over in three months.

53:49

Terrible. I know, that was terrible. Terrible, just terrible. Well, anyway,

53:55

Toni, somewhere in that muddied answer, I hope that you come up with something. And I appreciate you listening to the program.

54:01

And let's respond with charity and love to one another. If somebody gets hyper with you over whether you are or are not wearing a mask, don't fight.

54:11

No. Don't quarrel. It's not worth it. Just love, be gentle, respond with gentleness to each other.

54:18

And if that doesn't work, walk away from the situation if you're able to. If somebody is gonna hate you because you are wearing a mask or you aren't wearing a mask, and just continue on in brotherly love.

54:32

I'm not gonna judge you whether you have a mask on or not. And if you can point out the fact that it's the first world problem, then, you know, and have them like cool off that way.

54:42

In a loving way. In a loving way and have them cool off, you know. There are much, much bigger problems that we can focus on that we should be focused on than we could be praying about together.

54:53

Yes. Then let's focus on those things. The world still needs the gospel of Jesus Christ, folks.

54:59

We don't need masks. We need the gospel. And we can unite in that. We can unite together in that. Absolutely.

55:05

So share the good news that Christ has died for sins. You can die of COVID -19.

55:11

You're still gonna stand before God in judgment. You could die in a car accident. Repent of your sin, follow

55:18

Jesus Christ who died on the cross for our sins and rose again from the grave so that all who believe in him will not perish but have everlasting life.

55:28

Then live your whole life unto Christ, loving the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and loving your neighbor as yourself.

55:37

Let us pray. Yes, let's. Heavenly Father, we thank you for our time together and we thank you that we're safe.

55:43

I don't take this for granted that we have enjoyed good health, Becky and I and our family where we are in our church family as well.

55:52

We've had other things that we've had to deal with but for the most part, we can say that we've been blessed with good fellowship in the body of Christ where we are.

56:01

There are many others who have not been able to enjoy such pleasantries. And we pray that there would be wisdom in the men that are positioned over them to lead those churches, leading in the gospel, leading in the love of Christ, being caring of each other, considerate of one another and not quarrelsome in the various opinions and many things that are going on with all of these, the constant talking points that are almost ever -changing every day.

56:32

May we have the love of Christ and be grounded in that so that no matter how much the things change in the world, we know that we are in the one who is from everlasting to everlasting.

56:47

You are God always. Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today and forever.

56:53

Forgive us our sins and help us to be forgiving of one another and patient with each other. We also wanna be mindful of some of those things that are going on in other parts of the world, in China, in Lebanon, things that are happening in Canada right now, things that are going on in North Korea, wherever Christians are being persecuted.

57:13

We don't turn blind eyes and ears to that, getting so comfortable in the American life that we have that we forget about some of the things our missionaries are going through around the world.

57:22

Give us strength to stand fast in these days, bold in the gospel of Jesus Christ, not being bullied by tyrannical governors even within the

57:32

U .S. here, but we continue to entrust ourselves to him who judges justly as Christ did as our example.

57:40

We pray these things in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen.

58:06

Amen. Amen. This is when we understand the texts.

58:54

That's right, it is. It's when we understand the texts. That's the way I spelled it.

59:00

I was sitting there going, well, you messed up, so you're gonna start again. Nope, I was waiting for you.

59:06

Nope, I messed up, so now you have to start again. Got a little extra