WWUTT 1030 Q&A Benny Hinn, Couples Studies, Christian Fiction?

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Did Benny Hinn really repent of prosperity theology? What would be a good

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Bible study for a husband and wife to do? And should Christians read fiction? The answers to these questions and others when we

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Understand the Text. This is

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When we Understand the Text, a daily Bible study in the Word of Christ that we may attain to the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the

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Son of God, being knit together in love. Tell your friends about our website, www .tt

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.com. Here once again is Pastor Gabe. And my lovely co -host, Becky Hughes.

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Hello, everybody. My darling wife. Hey, we thank you for your gifts, and remember that you can give to our ministry when we understand the text.

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The money goes to our church, which is a nonprofit organization, and therefore, if you are able to do a tax write -off, then that would qualify.

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So go to our website, again, www .tt .com. Click on Give, and you can give online, or you can send a check to our church.

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If you send a check to the church, then you will get a giving statement from us at the start of the next year.

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So after we get done with all of our giving, and we're doing the invoices and stuff like that, so then you'll receive something from us that way.

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If you give online, it's through Simple Give that you'll actually get your invoice. I don't believe it comes from us.

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And we thank you so much for your support of this ministry. If you can't give money, but you want to support us somehow, just tell your friends.

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And pray for us. We have come to where we are because of referrals, because someone has recommended what to somebody else.

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Yeah. And that's really how we've... And the Lord has blessed us so much. It's been wonderful. We would not have come to where we are if not for just listeners that are excited about the podcast, or viewers that love the videos and share them with others.

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And that's how, when we understand the text as a ministry, has grown to where it is.

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I've said this before about the ministry name, but if I knew we were going to get here, I probably wouldn't have called it what.

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What? I know. I was telling somebody the other day about how you have a what ministry, and they're like, huh?

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What ministry? And I was like, you know, what? And they were like, oh, okay.

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Yeah. You know, I didn't... I didn't think that through. Yeah. When I was explaining. I didn't share this with you yet, but when

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I took the kids to the library the other day, there was a woman that pulled in right behind me, and she didn't pull like all the way into the parking space.

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She just kind of pulled up alongside me, and she's motioning me to roll down the window. So I rolled down the passenger window, and she said, what does your license plate mean?

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Because I have WWUTT on our license plate. Oh, that's cool. And I said, it's when we understand the text.

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And she kind of made a face, and she was like, when we understand the tax. Oh, funny.

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Like instantly, she's like, oh, this is a government thing? I don't know that I like this. I was like, no, no, no, text.

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So this is a... It's a Bible ministry. You can find it online. Bible devotions every day.

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Videos explaining a bunch of variety topics. And she goes, oh, well, that's fascinating. I don't know if she was interested in it or not, but she was really curious about what

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WWUTT stood for. That's awesome. Maybe it'll stick with her. Yeah. So if anything, it turns heads, but it's not the ministry name

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I would have chosen. It was something... What would you have chosen? Do you know? Yeah. I probably would have gone with East from West.

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Oh, yeah. That I tried to change the name of the podcast to before it ran. Yep. We did try that. But I mean, everything was around the videos.

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We weren't thinking of the podcast. It was making the 90 -second videos, which we were doing for our church.

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Right. And we were just coming up with something creative, a little tagline we can throw at the end that's like Paul Harvey doing, and now you know the rest of the story.

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The rest of the story. And that's when we understand the text. That's what we were going for.

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And then we noticed, hey, it abbreviates as what? What? What? Then I threw my

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Tim Taylor slash Scooby -Doo impression on it. That's how it came out.

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But I really was not... I wouldn't have chosen that as a ministry name. Yeah.

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It makes it a little interesting to tell people. It does.

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I have to explain. It's not the easiest thing to have to explain. Maybe that's why Todd Freeland calls it, well, what?

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Yeah. He just calls it, well, what? Yeah. Everybody calls it that because of Todd. Yeah. So, thanks,

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Todd. Shut up. Well, I know where he got it from, too.

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I don't think it was from the WWUTT, and he was just sounding it out as, well, what? I think it was because of the camel in one of the first videos that we did.

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Remember, I took the Geico camel. Right. And the Geico camel goes, well, what? Right.

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You know what I'm talking about? Yes. So, that's why he started calling it that. Okay. That's making sense now.

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And he connected that with, what? And that's how he started calling it that.

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I like it. I like it, too. It's kind of catchy. Yeah. It's just not easy to go, I'm the host of WWUTT.

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Yeah. What? What? You still get the what. Yeah. You still get the what. Yeah. Every time somebody has to say what.

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It's like I was trying to do a bad Abbott and Costello joke. Who's on first?

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What's on second? I don't know who's on third. Yep. Now, I didn't want to gab about this at the very beginning.

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Not the way that I planned on opening the show. I wanted to jump right into the

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Costi. Not Costi -hen. Benny -hen. Benny -hen. Benny -hen. Although, Costi -hen is going to be in this.

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Controversy about Benny -hen. The controversy about Benny -hen. That's it. So, a couple of days ago, this clip had been posted to YouTube on Wednesday, Tuesday.

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I think it was Tuesday when it was posted. I think it was. And it showed Benny -hen repudiating the prosperity theology.

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Supposedly, he was repenting of it. He was saying, it's bad that I did this and I'm never going to do it again.

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And so, the day after that clip hit YouTube, I had written a blog to kind of lay out, here's why

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Benny -hen has not repented. Here's how he amassed his millions. He's hurt millions and millions of people.

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Can the grace of God cover all of that? Yes. Absolutely, it can. Done. But what would the fruit of repentance look like in the life of a man who conned people out of millions and millions of dollars?

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Right. And of course, that goes into Zacchaeus in Luke chapter 19. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Right. And I had the right name.

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Yay. You remembered the right name this time. So, Jesus goes to the house of Zacchaeus.

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Zacchaeus says, behold, the half of my goods I give to the poor.

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And if I have defrauded anyone of anything, I restore it fourfold.

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And Jesus said to him, today salvation has come to this house since he also is a son of Abraham.

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For the son of man came to seek and to save the lost. And Zacchaeus recognizes he is a lost sinner in need of a savior.

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And the grace of God covered over Zacchaeus' sins. But the heart of repentance, the fruit of that repentance is demonstrated in the fact that Zacchaeus knew his wealth came from cheating people out of their money.

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Right. And so, he was going to give half of his wealth away, half of my goods

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I give to the poor, and then those whom he had defrauded, those whom he had conned out of their money so that he could get rich,

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I'm going to restore four times what I stole from them. And so, is that the kind of repentance that we're seeing from Benny Hinn?

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Now, certainly, you can say, well, I hope so. I hope that's what we're going to see from Benny Hinn.

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Right. But what I want to show you here is it's too soon for us to jump on saying that Benny Hinn has repented because he's actually been saying this very thing for a long time.

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And Becky and I even talked with Kosti about this a year ago in the interview that we did in March of last year, so this has been over a year ago, when

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Benny was saying then that he was repenting of the prosperity theology. But being a year and a half away from the last time, people just kind of forget because there's been a lot on the news lately.

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Yeah, well, I mean, they're getting – I don't even know that people forget. They just – they didn't hear about it, but they're getting manipulated by the latest thing that's hitting the newsreel and going, oh, look,

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Benny Hinn has repented. No, no, no. He talked about this a long time ago. Well, that's what I'm saying. They forget that he's already talked about it.

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Well, I'm saying I don't think they knew. Oh. They're just latching on to the latest thing that's hitting the social media trend.

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Okay. And so then – But it's a trend that he's been doing for quite a while. Right. So then when

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I post a blog about, no, he hasn't repented, and Justin Peters has said similarly, no, this is not repentance,

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Brandon Kimber, who has created the American Gospel documentary, has also pointed out this is not genuine repentance.

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And when we're pointing things out like this, there are people that are harping on us saying, what's the matter with you?

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Why can't you be loving and gracious to this man and wait to see that fruit is going to be produced by this?

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Because he's been saying this for over a year and a half. And every time he says it, he gets notoriety for it.

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That's what he wants. Right. But we're not actually seeing any fruit of repentance.

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When he says that he is repudiating the prosperity theology. So I'm using the beginning of this program here to kind of lay those things out together so you can hear that in succession.

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I was just going to say, Costi, in our interview, you know, that year and a half ago, he said that Benny has done that before, too.

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Right. Even before that. Yeah. So it's just, it's a thing. And I agree that it's probably just to get his name out there and be like, hey, more people come.

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Come see me. Come give me money. Yeah. Now, of course, sometimes that's speculative. We can't know what the motives of his heart is.

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Right. All we know is that what he has said has not matched his actions. And and I will play the answer that Costi gave us last year as well, because Costi's position on this hasn't changed.

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And what he said, even related to the news that's hit this week is just like what he said to us last year.

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Right. So and I think that that's the heart that we should have when it comes to approaching something like this. When a false teacher, whether it's

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Benny Hinn, who is, of course, a relative of Costi's, whether it's somebody you're related to or or some false teacher that that has, you know, you've just seen that face and that figure conning people for years.

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We should all have the desire that they would repent. Oh, yeah. And and when we recognize it, when when we see that it's genuine repentance, throw and open the doors.

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Oh, yeah. Saying, yes. Welcome them home. Yeah, absolutely. Praise the Lord that he has won you out of that false teaching that you've been in and even pushing on other people for years and years.

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The grace of God can cover over these sins. There's no way. There's no way Benny could ever pay back what he had done to people.

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There's no way he could do that. But there still must be a demonstration of of a mourning in his heart of realizing the evil that he's done in the sight of God.

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And I'll talk about that here in a moment. So here's the clip as it hit the social media loop this past Tuesday.

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Today, sadly, among a lot of circles, all you hear is how to build the flesh.

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It's a feel good message. That's what you hear out there. It's all about feel good, do good, all that.

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Make money, all the rest of it. And I'm sorry to say that prosperity has gone a little crazy and I'm correcting my own theology.

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And you need to all know it. Because when I read the

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Bible now, I don't see the Bible in the same eyes I saw the Bible 20 years ago. And Steve Strang from Charisma, whom we go back years, he actually he was in my wedding.

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People don't even know that Charisma Magazine began with my father -in -law. Charisma Magazine started with Roy Hardin and I married his daughter.

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So Steve Strang was in my wedding. We go way back. And he's already asked me, sir, are you ready to make it public?

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I said, well, not totally, because I don't want to hurt my friends or my love who believe things

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I don't believe anymore. And I will tell you now something that is going to shock you.

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I think it's an offense to the Lord. It's an offense to say give $1 ,000. I think it's an offense to the

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Holy Spirit to place a price on the gospel. I'm done with it.

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I will never again ask you to give $1 ,000 or whatever amounts because I think the

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Holy Ghost is just fed up with it. Are you, did you hear me?

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I think that hurts the gospel. So I'm making this statement for the first time in my life.

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And frankly, I don't care what people think about me anymore. So I had a guy, well,

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I'll tell you who, it was Dan Willis. I love Dan with all my heart. I said, don't you dare preach that message again.

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Just a few days ago. I said, no, no. I'm not going to hear it. I don't want to be a part of it. So I, when they invite me to telethons,

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I think they will not like me anymore. Because if you look at the word of God, I don't want to get into it now.

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Am I shocking you? Good. Let's have a high five on this one. If I hear one more time, break the back of debt with $1 ,000,

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I'm going to rebuke them. I think that's buying the gospel.

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That's buying the blessing. That's grieving the Holy Spirit. That's about all

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I will say. If you are not giving because you love

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Jesus, don't bother giving. I think giving has become such a gimmick.

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It's making me sick to my stomach. And I've been sick for a while too.

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I just couldn't say it. And now the lid is off. I've had it.

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You know why? I don't want to get to heaven and be rebuked. I think it's time we say it like it is.

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The gospel is not for sale. And the blessings of God are not for sale.

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And miracles are not for sale. And prosperity is not for sale.

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So that was the clip. And that was taken from his program. I can't remember if it aired on TBN or Daystar.

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But it was one of those networks with Benny Hinn's program airing on there. So Brandon Kimber, as I mentioned, who's the producer of the

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American Gospel Documentary, he mentioned that the very next day, so he was talking about this on his

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Facebook page, the very next day, which would have been Wednesday, Benny Hinn was on his program telling you to sow a seed and to sow a seed for, you know, that's prosperity preacher speak for send us your money.

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Right. And he even gave a dollar amount. It was $120. Was it pre -recorded or was it live?

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Well, we'll talk about that. We'll talk about that here in a moment. So here's the next clip from the very next day of Benny Hinn telling you to sow a seed.

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Okay. When heaven opens, it means heaven is on your side. And God says he'll protect your money.

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He'll protect the fruits of your ground if you do it the right way. And the right way is sowing seed into God's work.

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There's an address on the screen. Make sure to send that prayer request and sow a seed.

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I'm asking many of you to sow $120. You know why? Because the number 120 is the number of deliverance and liberty.

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See, that's just Benny up to his old tricks. Same thing he's always done. Right. Okay. So you raised the question, but was that pre -recorded?

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Right. Likely, yes. Okay. But we know that he was teaching exactly like that as recently as April.

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Because I went on YouTube, and I mean, it didn't take me 30 seconds, just a little bit of research.

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I went on YouTube and typed in Benny Hinn prosperity or something to that effect. And this is one of the first videos that I got,

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Benny Hinn teaching live in April, just like what he said there in that audio clip.

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So this is from just a few months ago. Okay. Now, I'm going to ask you right now to go to the phones.

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There's a number on the screen, and I want you to sow a seed. And we're going to pray, and they're going to bring your prayer request and your name to me here, because this is live.

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So start calling now. Begin to call now. Pick up that phone and call the number on the screen right this minute.

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It's there for you. All right. You call that number on the screen, and they're going to bring your pledges or your prayer requests to me or your name when you sow that seed.

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And I'm going to pray over it because the anointing is on me here already. And I'm going to believe

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God with you that every financial need will be met in your life.

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We are on the verge of the greatest breakthrough spiritually for spiritual blessings, physically for physical healings, and financially for prosperity we haven't seen before.

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The prosperity of Luke 6 through to 8 is going to happen because it says it shall be given unto you good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over.

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We haven't seen that yet. Shall man give to your bosom? This is the wealth of the sinner being transferred because Jesus said, man, give to your bosom.

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So he's saying there, give, sow a seed, and the wealth of the sinner will be transferred to you.

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Oh, okay. Yeah, which is the same prosperity shtick that he's been selling for a long time.

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And recognize here that Benny's problem is not just prosperity theology.

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It's all of his theology. Prosperity doctrine is just one problem of many.

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This man is a heretic who has taught the little God's doctrine that you can be little gods.

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He's made dozens and dozens, if not hundreds of prophecies that never came true.

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You just go to Justin Peter seminar back when he was doing a call for discernment, which you can still watch for free on YouTube, or you can pick up his

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DVD clouds without water. Part of Justin's seminar where he's exposing these word of faith heretics, he plays an audio tape of Benny Hinn from back in 1989.

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It was a New Year's Eve preaching thing that he did. I don't know if it was on TBN or where it was.

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I don't quite remember the context now, but I know that he goes into like a trance and claims the Holy Spirit has come upon him and he starts laying out all these prophecies of things that are going to happen in the 90s.

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And not one of them came true. It was all fraud, and he's always been a fraud.

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So the prosperity thing is not the only problem. It's just the thing that's getting all the attention right now because of the documentary

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American Gospel, because of people that are claiming that they've been won out of the prosperity movement.

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And a lot of those videos are gaining all kinds of traction on social media. It's Kosti Hinn's book,

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God, Greed, and the Prosperity Gospel. And this kind of stuff is starting to kind of put the pressure on these organizations like Benny Hinn's ministry,

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TBN, Joyce Meyer, a lot of these other word of faith things. I mean, you can go back and find interviews with Joyce Meyer years ago where she's being pressed by the interviewer.

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Well, some people say you're a prosperity preacher. And Joyce Meyer will reply, well, what is that? I mean, they've been accused of this for years, and they've always been dodging it by claiming

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I'm not a prosperity. No, I hate the prosperity doctrine, da -da -da -da -da. Interesting. Yeah. So they never claim to be prosperity theologians.

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They've never used that title. So as soon as they get labeled with something like that, the only way they know how to shake it is to do this like faux repentance sort of a thing.

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Oh, okay. And they've been doing this for years. This is nothing new. So this clip that I'm going to play for you here, this is

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Benny Hinn over a year and a half ago. And again, he's been doing this for a long time. Right. But this was one that kind of gained a lot of attention, even among those who are more sound in their faith.

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Oh, look, Benny Hinn is repenting now. He's stepping back from the prosperity theology.

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So listen to this clip and how similar it sounds to even statements he was making this week.

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And yet we've not seen any of this change from Benny. In fact, I'll even say that he's greatly dishonest in this particular clip.

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And I'll mention why when we get to the end of it. All right. Sounds good. Today, many

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Christians are not truly Christians. Their Christianity has become deluded.

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And, you know, we get attacked for teaching prosperity. Well, it's in the

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Bible. But I think some have gone to the extreme with it, sadly. And it's not

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God's word, what is taught. And I think I'm as guilty as as others.

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Sometimes you go a little farther than you really need to go. And then God brings you back to normality and reality.

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No, no, no. Because you read the more you know the Bible, the more you become, you know, biblically based and more balanced in your opinions and your thoughts.

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Because we were influenced when I was younger, I was influenced by the preachers who taught whatever they taught.

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But as I've lived longer, I'm thinking, wait a minute, you know, this is this doesn't really fit totally with the

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Bible and it doesn't fit with the reality. So what is prosperity?

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No lack. And I've said this before, you know, did

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Elijah the prophet have a car? No. He did not even have to have a bicycle, but he had no lack.

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How about the Lord? Did Jesus drive a car or live in a mansion?

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No, he had no lack. How about the apostles? No lack. None lacked among them.

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Today the idea is abundance and palatial homes and cars and bank accounts.

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They've gone. Yeah. Well, the focus is wrong. Right. Focus on the Lord and abundance and prosperity comes in all dimensions of your life because he's the prince of peace.

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He's that perfect shalom, that total well -being that affects every aspect of your life. But you focus on the wrong thing.

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You know, and it's so wrong. I mean, forgive me. People have accused me of things aren't even real.

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One guy wrote a comment, oh, he's worth 40 million. I thought, how I wish I would give it all to the kingdom before God almighty.

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He can tell you I'm right and Tim will tell you I'm I'm right and people will say, well, he flies private jets.

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No, I don't. I have. I have not flown private in, dear God, years.

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I fly commercial like anyone else and have for how long, Tim, you, you, you fly with me, brother.

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Yes, sir. Yeah. And what and what kind of hotels have we stayed in? Dear God. Please. We have some good testimonies.

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Huh? Here, here, here. Come on. We have some good testimonies of our hotels that we've stayed in. That's for sure.

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Yeah. Some of you won't even believe it. But you know, yeah, we all sadly make the mistake of thinking, well, you know, this is what

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God wants. And God says, no, that's not what I want. It's time to live biblically.

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You know, it all comes down to one thing. Do we love Jesus? Yes or no. If we love

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Jesus, then it's all about Jesus. If we don't love Jesus, it's about other things.

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So that's just the way it is. Yeah. But which Jesus? Yeah. You know, again, that's that's part of the problem with Benny's teaching is it's not just prosperity theology.

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Right. It's all of the other stuff that he's taught wrong about scripture, lying about prophecy, lying about how you buy miracles, lying about all you have to do is believe hard enough and you can receive your healing.

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Lie after lie after lie. And in that particular clip, he even makes the comment about, I mean, he tries to shrug off the fact that this guy was staying in hotels that were twenty five thousand dollars a night.

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Yeah. He was flying on a Gulf Stream of four private jet, the average cost of which to own and maintain is thirty six million dollars.

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Wow. The Forbes list put Benny Hinn among the richest preachers on Earth, said that he made nearly fifty million dollars.

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And all of this is in Costi's book. In his book, God, Greed and Prosperity, Theology, Prosperity, Gospel, that's what it is.

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God, Greed and the Prosperity Gospel. He lays all of that out. This is what they did.

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This was the lap of luxury that they were living in when they're traveling around the world doing all of this stuff.

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So Benny is not demonstrating any remorse in that clip or in the one that aired earlier this week.

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There is nothing in his heart about, guys, I lied to people. I was

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I was messed up in what it was that I did. Yeah. Now. Now, truly, somebody can push back on that comment and say, well, isn't this, you know, the kind of guilt that we feel over our sin, isn't it sometimes doesn't it sometimes come with our sanctification?

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So as we grow in holiness, we're going to fear we're going to feel more and more rotten about the sins that we've committed in the past.

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Right. Certainly. Yeah. Like even as I mature now, I feel rotten about about sins

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I did when I was a teenager. Right. So, sure, I get that. But once again, this is not the first time he's done this.

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And he it's almost like he's saying it to save face. And you have evidence of it in that clip right now where he's trying to throw off the fact that we don't stay in rich hotels.

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We fly commercial. We don't fly private jets, which some of that's not true.

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He still stays in rich places. He still is worth millions of dollars, still drives nice cars, wears very, very expensive clothing.

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None of that has changed. So he's not losing anything by saying, I repudiate the prosperity theology.

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He would be losing something if he actually turned from his lifestyle and admitted that he got all of this by lying to people and gave it to the poor, tried to give back to people that he had stolen from, left the ministry entirely.

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That's something else that has to happen. Yeah. He's got to step down as a preacher. It is not enough for him to stand in the pulpit and say all these ways that I have conned people.

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He has to recognize that he has made shipwreck of this ministry. He's never even really had a ministry.

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It's all been based on lies and step away from that spotlight. Well, yeah, to unlearn everything that he's teaching right now.

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I mean, really, that's going to take some time and a miracle, really.

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Yeah. It's the move of the Holy Spirit. It can only be. Because he, I mean, I don't know if he thinks this is true or not, but you say it enough times it's hard to think otherwise, you know?

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Right. So he needs to go to... Even if you do know you're lying, your lie becomes your truth.

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That's right. Yeah. Eventually God turns you over to your own depravity. In this case, the lies that he continued to tell.

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So in response to this statement that he made this week about saying like the gospel is not for sale and the blessings of God are not for sale, miracles are not for sale, prosperity is not for sale.

29:42

Justin Peters replied and said, do not be fooled. This is not repentance. For Benny Hinn to repent, he would need to empty his coffers, give every cent he has to good ministries, shut his ministry down, confess to his lies and false prophecies, join a sound church and never preach again.

30:02

Can Benny show a level of humility that causes him to step out of the spotlight that he's held for decades?

30:10

That only God can do in his life. Only God can move this kind of repentance in his heart.

30:15

And we'll forgive his sins. Don't get me wrong on that. And I'm with Kosti and I'm with Justin.

30:21

We want his repentance. We do. That's what we want. And we would so celebrate.

30:27

We pray for that. We want this man to repent. We're not trying to be hard on him from, you know, just because we want to look, you know, we want to thump our chest and say, look how much more we know than this guy knows.

30:39

We just want you guys to be good at discerning when somebody is telling you the truth and how to see that in their lives and where to look for that in their lives to make sure that they are telling the truth.

30:52

Because I mean, you want to give the person the benefit of the doubt, of course. But really, is that truly what they mean?

30:59

Or is that going to come back to bite you later? Yeah, because he's going to continue to lead people astray.

31:05

And then that's what we're concerned about, right? Because now people are buying into, oh, well, he hates the prosperity theology.

31:11

So now I'm going to give him money, right? You know, because he did make a financial pitch there.

31:17

And that first clip that we paid or we play when we paid, we didn't pay.

31:22

So the first clip we played, he said, don't give unless you have a heart for Jesus.

31:33

So he's still asking for money and what he's teaching and what he's pushing in his ministry is still lies.

31:39

Nothing of that has changed. Still false teaching, still false theology. Can this man demonstrate humility to step out of the pulpit and away from the spotlight and the attention that he's had for decades and sit underneath someone else's teaching and let them teach him?

31:56

Can he do that? Can he display that kind of humility? Is he able to?

32:02

Is he going to? Right now, he's still behaving like the rich young ruler, as though he's hearing

32:07

Jesus say to him, you actually have to give all your stuff to the poor and then come follow me and you will have treasure in heaven.

32:15

And he's walking away sad because he had great wealth. So he's demonstrating a remorse over the stuff that he's taught, but it's not actually producing repentance.

32:25

It's not a godly grief producing repentance. So when Benny was talking about this a year and a half ago,

32:32

Becky and I were talking, we did an interview on this program with Kosti and asked him about what his thoughts were related to just that last clip we played there about Benny presumably repenting of the prosperity theology.

32:48

And here's what Kosti said. I'll be the first to get excited and encouraged by admission of some level of culpability.

32:57

Now let's stay with me here. That's great that he admits that stuff is not okay and that he went too far.

33:05

At least we can all agree now on that. But remorse is not repentance.

33:12

So and I say that with love for my uncle. I'm the first to throw the doors open if he repents and calls me and says,

33:20

Kosti, I don't know where to start. There's more stuff on the internet than I can ever fix.

33:26

But I repented. I'm selling stuff. The Bentley's gone. I'm living different. I will be the first to fling the doors open and go, sure.

33:35

If he looks like Zacchaeus, then come on. And I would take the flack for it.

33:42

I know you would. All of us would. We want repentance and real lasting fruit of that repentance.

33:49

But that's not what that was. Lots of people are praying. I got tons of messages saying, praise

33:55

God. You got to him and all this stuff. Look, at some point, old men who are in their 60s begin to reflect on their life.

34:04

And everybody knows, you think Romans 118, that the unrighteous suppress the truth.

34:09

Everybody knows. Because the Holy Spirit, like John 16 describes, he's going to convict the world of sin.

34:16

It's not just Christians that are convicted. The world is convicted by the Holy Spirit. Everybody knows when they're doing something wrong.

34:23

And my prayer is that right now is a first step of realizing he's gone too far and that it leads to a mourning of his sin and a true biblical repentance.

34:38

But his comments only affirm what we all already know, which is that the prosperity gospel is garbage, that what he taught and may still be teaching is not true and it's too far.

34:53

And we all know the Bible teaches balanced views on money. God is not trying to make everyone poor, and he's not trying to make everyone rich.

35:01

There's a balance there, too. We teach about biblical money and views on money. So that was the clip.

35:07

That was a clip from our interview a year and a half ago. And while we were playing that clip, Becky said, we need to do some more interviews.

35:13

We do. That was fun. Now, related to the comments that made it on social media this past week,

35:22

Kosti said the following on Twitter. He said, regarding Uncle Benny, I'm encouraged to see him express a refutation of prosperity theology and even admit to wrong teachings on that topic.

35:33

Now pray for undeniable, lasting fruit that exemplifies genuine repentance.

35:38

Truth and time go hand in hand. And then gave a reference to Psalm 51, 17, which, of course, is the psalm we're going to touch on this next week on the podcast.

35:49

That's David's psalm of repentance. Luke 19, 1 through 10, which is the story of Zacchaeus that I read at the start.

35:55

And then Luke 3, verse 8 as well, bear fruit in keeping with repentance.

36:01

There are some people who have taken that comment that Kosti made on social media and thrown it at me in response to my blog.

36:08

As though we disagree. No, we don't. Kosti and I do not disagree. We are of the same mind on this.

36:14

We both want repentance, but there must be fruit in keeping with repentance. Did Kosti say there that Benny Hinn had repented?

36:22

He didn't say that. He said that we need to pray for undeniable, lasting fruit that exemplifies genuine repentance.

36:30

Just the same as he said a year and a half ago related to this same issue. So that's what we need to be looking for.

36:37

And we need to be very, very careful whenever some false teacher, some teacher that is renowned, notorious for their false teaching comes out and claims to be repentant of it.

36:49

Are they? We hope so. We should test that. Because as Paul said to the

36:54

Thessalonians in 1 Thessalonians chapter 5, test everything. Hold fast to what is good, hate that stuff which is evil.

37:04

And how do you test it? You compare it to the Bible. With the word of God. What the word of God says, which

37:09

Benny is not in line with, has never been in line with. And that's what we need to pray will penetrate his heart.

37:17

The true and lasting word of God. All right. So, again, this is

37:22

Friday, and on the Friday edition of the broadcast, we take questions from listeners. Yes. Now, I did get emails about that.

37:28

So that's why we tackled that. Not just because it was a popular thing, a hot topic right now, although it is.

37:36

But it was a response to some of those emails that I have received. So thank you so much for passing those my way.

37:43

And I hope you had the chance to read the blog. You can find it at PastorGabe .com. As of the recording of this broadcast, it's still the first article that's on there when you go to the website.

37:55

Next question. This one comes from Natasha, and she says, Pastor Gabe and Becky, greetings from Fairfield, Illinois.

38:02

Hello. I love listening to your podcast, especially Fridays with Becky. Aww. We should just start calling it that.

38:08

Fridays with Becky. Fridays with Becky. That sounds so weird. Well, there's not a day of the week that starts with B.

38:16

Yeah, that's just weird. Let's call it Becky Day. It's part of my morning drive to work every day.

38:25

My husband is the pastor at a small Southern Baptist church. Aww. Hey, mine too.

38:30

Hey. We all live in common. We are a small Southern Baptist church.

38:35

We are. We're hitting, I don't know what the average is, 120? So we're below average. So we don't have 120 members.

38:42

I'm looking for a devotion for my husband and I to go through together. Do either of you have a recommendation?

38:49

Thanks in advance and God bless you both. Now I've got two recommendations because they're what hit my

38:55

Twitter feed today. Awesome. So they were fresh in my mind. Sure. One of these you've read,

39:00

I know, From Death to Life and Before the Throne. Have you read both of them?

39:05

I know on your reading list Before the Throne was on there, but you guys didn't get to that one yet. Is that what it was? Yeah. Yeah.

39:13

So I get distracted and they're the type of books that you don't,

39:19

I mean, you don't come out lightly. Right. Yeah. You don't just breeze through them. Right. Right.

39:25

It's stuff to chew on rather than to swallow. So, no, I have not gotten to both.

39:32

Okay. So these are both written by our friend, Alan Nelson and you've met -

39:38

The fourth. Yeah, Alan, which is why he gets called Quatro. Right. So he's Alan Nelson the fourth. Yes.

39:44

You might also hear his name referred to as Quatro Nelson. Yes. And yes, I've met him.

39:49

Yeah. Okay. I couldn't remember if there was - A couple times. G3. Uh -huh. You met him at - So that's where you met him.

39:55

Uh -huh. Where else did you meet him? Twice at G3. Oh, both years. Yeah. Because he was there both years that we were there.

40:00

Yeah. Okay. Got it. Got it. It's all clicking here because I see him everywhere. You do.

40:06

We end up at ShepCon together. Yeah. We end up at SPC together. So, yeah. So I can't remember which one of those you were with me -

40:13

Yeah. And got the chance to - Was Stephanie there? Did you meet - Okay. No, I haven't met her. So you haven't met his wife yet.

40:19

And they were supposed to come over and stay at our house that one weekend. That's right. And I got sick.

40:24

Yeah. We got so sick. So sick. We had to tell them that it's just better if they don't come.

40:30

I hated canceling that. Me too. I was pushing - But they were grateful, I'm sure. Yeah. We didn't get their kids sick.

40:37

We were sick for like two weeks. Man, I kept putting that off. It was the flu. Yeah. It was.

40:43

We were sick for a long time. Becky was really, she was like, you need to call Alan and cancel. I'm like, no, I'm fine.

40:49

I'm just fine. I know. The morning I called and canceled, I could barely get out of bed.

40:55

So it was like, yeah. I have to cancel. I know. But we love Alan. Alan, in my opinion, is a very underrated preacher.

41:06

And I want to say that. in Arkansas at his invitation. This was a couple of years ago now.

41:12

And spoke at the conference that his church puts on, puts together. Had a lot of fun.

41:18

Other great speakers that were there as well, including Jeff Johnson, who is the author of one of my all -time favorite theology books,

41:27

The Fatal Flaw. That's a great book. Rob Ruiz on Twitter was like,

41:33

Gabe loves himself some Fatal Flaw. Yes. I do. I love that book. I quote it a lot.

41:38

So anyway, Alan had invited me to come down and preach. And then I was supposed to preach another

41:44

Sunday night in there. But he decided to do it instead because it was a friend of his and he had been telling him for a long time he was going to come and preach at his church.

41:53

And so part of me was kind of like, oh, I'm disappointed. I came down here to Arkansas and I don't get to preach an extra sermon.

41:59

But boy, it was a treat sitting there and listening to Alan preach. He was fantastic.

42:05

Yeah. So I was like, see, this was worth coming down to Arkansas and listen to Alan preach. And his books, when

42:10

I say there's something to chew on, it's not heady. It's not like big words and stuff like that.

42:17

It's all easy to understand. It's really not. Yeah. It's very much, man, that's, wow, profound.

42:25

He says some very, very deep things, but he says it in a way that is not going to be over your head.

42:31

It's not like reading John Owen. Right. I understand it. Yeah. That's right. I just, I have to have the concentration to get it to, you know, distractions.

42:42

Yes. If Becky can understand it, then it's, that's right. It's an easy read. We'll go through stuff together and she'll have to stop me and go, okay, say, explain that.

42:52

Okay. Yeah. Again, I know you've told me before, but tell me again. So when he wrote his book,

43:00

From Death to Life, he sent me the manuscript and asked me to write a blurb for it. And I was way too busy at the time and I hated not being able to throw an endorsement on it.

43:09

So this is my making up for that. His book, From Death to Life.

43:15

And right now it's on Kindle for 99 cents or something like that. Oh, is that right? Yeah. Okay. Right now, now.

43:21

I don't think it's too much longer though. It might be a couple more days. Now he's, I know he's got a special going on if you wanted to do these books as a group

43:29

Bible study. Oh yeah. That too. You go to thingsabove .us

43:34

slash contact, contact hyphen us. Okay. Okay. Thingsabove .us

43:41

slash contact hyphen us. If you just go to thingsabove .us, then you will,

43:48

I mean, you'll find a way to contact. Right. Right. Right. So if you request, hey, I want to do a Bible study group with From Death to Life or Before the

43:55

Throne, he'll give you a bulk rate deal. So he'll give you a special deal if you want to order packs of them. But I'm sorry,

44:03

I missed her name, Natasha. Natasha is asking here for a study that her and her husband can do together. So if you do

44:09

From Death to Life together, that's nine parts. So you'd be doing that in nine segments, whether you do that every day or you do that in a stretch over a week.

44:19

If you do Before the Throne, that's 12. So you might pick up both books and right there, you've got 21 sessions that you and your husband can do together, however you want to break those up.

44:30

So those are the two that I would recommend. And like I said, it's just because it was fresh on my mind today.

44:36

I saw Alan talking about those on Twitter. So I wanted to recommend that. Pick up From Death to Life or Before the

44:43

Throne or both. Or both. And they are great studies. They are.

44:48

I'm not the kind of guy, honestly, that recommends a lot of husband -wife studies. I think it's better if you find a

44:57

Bible study that can apply to anyone. As long as it's not like a men's only study or a women's only study.

45:04

Not going to recommend Sarah Young, Jesus Calling, you know, or The Quest by Beth Moore.

45:11

Those are not going to be... I wouldn't recommend those to anybody, let alone to women. But stick with studies that would generally cover any kind of audience who wants to do a

45:22

Bible study. Not just husband -and -wife studies, although those kinds of things are good.

45:28

But you want to be pursuing God together. So you can do any Bible study and be growing in Christ, being knit together in love with a growth that comes from God.

45:40

So my question is, what's the difference between a devotional and a Bible study? I don't really see any difference, just different words.

45:49

Just checking. A Bible study, I'm going to try to throw a distinction on it, and there's really not.

45:57

I was just about to throw... A Bible study is going to come straight from the Bible, whereas a devotional is going to come from a devotional book. That's what

46:03

I was about to say. But no, there's no difference. Your devotion should be rooted in the Word of God.

46:08

Your Bible study is, of course, going to be rooted in the Word of God. So these books from Allen are going to take you through that.

46:15

It's going to be in the Word of God. You're going to be... And you have Bible verses to look up and stuff like that.

46:22

It's really good. It is a great study. There's assignments. He gives you homework in there. Yes. Which is another reason why

46:29

I didn't get through it. I gotcha. Yes. So there you go. You got my pitch. Not just for a husband and wife study, but maybe you even want to do it as a

46:37

Bible study at your church and tell Allen, Pastor Gabe sent you. Next question.

46:43

Hello. My name is Steve from Kentucky. A short question. I will post you a link to a Russell Moore tweet.

46:49

My question, is this true or false? My answer would be false. I think that we could want to develop our imagination based on true -slash -Scripture is

46:56

Christians, not fiction. Thank you and God bless. Okay. I just read that and nobody has any context as to what it is that I'm talking about.

47:04

Russell Moore had posted something on Twitter and it was connected to a video where he was saying that Christians should read fiction.

47:12

And I am going to go ahead and play that clip. This is going to take us all the way to the end of the broadcast today, because this is going to be about three minutes.

47:19

The whole video is like 10 minutes, but I'm going to cut it down and then talk about should

47:24

Christians be reading fiction? Okay. So here we go. Reading fiction, I think, can cultivate the imagination.

47:34

And why that's important for people who are Christians, other than just the common human joy of it, is that that's the way the

47:41

Scripture itself speaks to us. It's the kind of world that God has created, not just axioms and propositions, but instead an imaginative formation.

47:53

When you're reading fiction, you're reading a storyline, it puts you temporarily into a different sort of world, a different sort of creation.

48:03

And that can cultivate what Russell Kirk used to call the moral imagination. So it's not just that you're reading these truths and saying, that's true, that's false, that's good, that's bad, but you actually experience surprise or disgust.

48:20

You know, you read about Cinderella's sisters, and there can be a visceral sort of response to that.

48:27

Now, that can work either way. That can work in good ways or bad ways. I mean, Germanic volk myths had devastating implications in the 20th century.

48:36

But narrative can work in a good formative way as well.

48:44

So think of, for instance, Proverbs 7 and 8. You've got the telling of a story that can show you the tragedy of walking in the way of folly and the joy of walking in the way of wisdom.

48:58

You think of Jesus when he's telling the stories of the prodigal son and the good

49:04

Samaritan. What he's doing there, and with many other parables as well, what he's doing there is exactly what the prophet

49:11

Nathan is doing with King David after David's sexual misbehavior with Bathsheba.

49:18

Nathan comes in, and what he's trying to do is to go around the hardened conscience and around that rationalizing intellect that can justify anything.

49:29

And he allows David to experience horror and disgust and a sense of righteousness and a sense of injustice, and then he flips it around to where he can see that actually applies to him, to his own sin.

49:45

Well, that's what Jesus is doing too. I mean, you think of the good Samaritan. He allows the lawyer that he's talking to to experience a sense of justice and of compassion for someone who's defined to be an outsider, and then he turns around and explains it.

50:02

Well, that's the way it works. I mean, the Ten Commandments come to us in the context of a narrative.

50:08

I am the Lord who brought you up out of the land of Egypt. There's an entire story there that the

50:15

Ten Commandments come out of. Sermon on the Mount comes out of an entire story of the announcing of the kingdom, of this year of jubilee, this year of the favor of the

50:26

Lord that Jesus is unveiling. Well, why is that the case? It's because John tells us, in the beginning was the word, the logos.

50:37

That's not just logic. That's a story. That's a word that shapes and forms.

50:45

The apostle Paul pays very close attention to narrative. Gospel writers do too, even when they're not quoting

50:53

Jesus. The fruit of the Spirit, Paul says, well, that is a literary allusion to some very rich narrative material in the

51:03

Old Testament. Jesus does the same thing. I am the vine and you are the branches. We serve an endlessly creative God.

51:13

And when we're reading fiction, we see a flash of that. I don't agree with Russell Moore on much.

51:21

And I don't recommend him as a teacher with the recent critical race theory and intersectionality kick that he's been on and seems to be even flirting with egalitarianism.

51:32

But anyway, I want to agree with what Russell Moore is saying there. And I also want to agree with Steve.

51:39

Because Steve says that what Russell Moore was saying was false. I think we want to develop our imaginations based on truth slash scripture as Christians, not fiction.

51:50

Okay. I don't think that a Christian should have to read fiction. So I'm not going to sit here and say, yeah,

51:55

Christians should go read fiction. You want to cultivate your imagination, read some fiction.

52:01

That's not going to be my position. But you read fiction if you want. Read nonfiction if you want.

52:09

I would just recommend you read your Bible. That is first and foremost, your most important reading, because this is how

52:17

God speaks to you. And then the reading that you do outside of that is up to you, your tastes and interests.

52:23

Read some nonfiction books, of course, because you've got some teachers there that help you understand the text better than you probably understood it when you were just sitting there and reading it.

52:33

But then you've got some fiction books that can either be some good entertainment or you can even learn things from fiction books.

52:40

How many times has James White been referencing 1984 from George Orwell in his broadcasts,

52:50

The Dividing Line? Yeah. It's almost like every time he does The Dividing Line, he says something about Big Brother, George Orwell said this, you know, the thought police.

52:59

That's a fiction book. Yeah. My two favorite books in the world are both fiction and they are

53:05

Pilgrim's Progress and The Screwtape Letters. Yeah. Those are my two favorite books. So, if you ever see me do a list on social media, my top five favorite books, those are the two that generally end up at the top of the list.

53:17

I read more fiction, actually, than I read nonfiction. And part of the reason is because reading nonfiction sometimes feels like work to me.

53:26

Yeah. Like I'm doing it because it's part of my job. I do get, you know, joy out of it, but sometimes it feels like work, whereas fiction never feels like work.

53:35

Right. I can read fiction to... Not exactly your job description. Right. Exactly. I can unwind.

53:42

When I go to bed, what I read is fiction and it just kind of takes my mind off of things and I'll read

53:49

Christian works, I'll read secular works, either way. But I read more fiction than I tend to read nonfiction.

53:56

And I think that, by the way, Christian fiction is something that we've kind of lost grasp of.

54:04

Yeah. So, it's like you ask somebody, what's the most popular Christian fiction book out there? They could probably tell you, Lion, the

54:10

Witch and the Wardrobe. Yep. C .S. Lewis. That's true. Or they're going to say, Lord of the Rings. Yeah.

54:15

Which even isn't really Christian fiction. I was going to say. And so, what's the best -selling

54:21

Christian fiction book over the last, you know, 10, 20 years? The Shack. Yeah.

54:27

Unfortunately. Yeah. It's a horrible book, full of heresy. But I wish that you would have some sound guys out there being able to write something to compete with something like The Shack.

54:36

Of course, the reason why The Shack was so popular was because of the people that ate it up were being misled.

54:43

There's surely some better Christian fiction out there that's been written that was much better than The Shack.

54:50

But I'm actually working on a children's fiction book right now that I'm hoping to publish. The kids are excited about it.

54:56

I've been reading it to my kids because they're my test audience. Yes. If they like it, then it works.

55:01

So anyway, like I said, read fiction if you want. If that's your bag, if that's your cup of tea, read non -fiction.

55:09

Either way, I would just say do some reading outside, even outside of what you're reading in the

55:14

Bible. That's your first book that you're coming back to because the Word of God is speaking to you in this.

55:20

I don't think you have to have fiction, though, to cultivate your imagination. So I'm with Steve on that in the fact that we can cultivate our imagination anyway by the guidance of the

55:31

Holy Spirit reading the Bible. We don't need outside, even secular sources helping to work our minds in that way or in that direction.

55:39

Definitely not secular. Yeah. So anyway, thank you so much for your questions. And again, you can send us an email to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.

55:49

Hope to get to some more of your questions next week. We continue with our study of Acts on Monday and the

55:56

Psalms. I'll be in Psalm 51 Thursday next week. Yay. All right. Let's pray. Yes, let's.

56:01

Heavenly Father, we thank you again for our time together and this medium that can be utilized to advance the gospel and feed your saints and teach truth to others.

56:14

I pray that we would hold fast to that gospel that we first heard, the truth that Jesus Christ came,

56:20

God in the flesh, lived a perfect life, died on the cross for our sins, rose again from the grave, ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of the throne of God so that all who believe in him will have forgiveness of sins and will have everlasting life.

56:36

We pray for Benny Hinn, which we talked about in this broadcast, and we pray that he would come to a genuine repentance and lead people in truth and away from the lies that he misled people with for years and years.

56:51

We thank you for guys like Kosti and their testimony, for it is by the grace of God that he was one out of that very false doctrine that he had followed in and is now preaching truth and changing lives for the gospel call that is upon his life.

57:08

I pray that we would hold fast to the truth, keep us steadfast in these things, help us to be able to discern truth from error.

57:16

And we pray this in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Amen. Now, I didn't want to gab about this at the very beginning.

58:28

Not the way that I planned on opening the show. I wanted to jump right into the

58:34

Benny Hinn controversy that's going on right now. Oh, I thought you were going to say something about your birthday coming up. Don't start that.

58:41

Okay, cutting this part out. Clip. No. Happy birthday.

58:47

Yeah. It's my 39th trip around the sun. Yes. I've certainly not improved in my speaking ability.

59:01

I've made 39 trips around the sun now. That's where I'm at. Yep. What was