Evangelical Responses to Cultural Decay

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James White director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll-free across the United States. It's one eight seven seven seven five. Three three three four one and now with today's topic.

Here is James White.

Moral and Religious Foundations for a Free Society

And good afternoon. Welcome to the dividing line one of the articles I have in my dividing line materials from Michael Gerson America that is losing faith with religion and Just a few things here that are interesting and enlightening in light of The current discussions you are having discussions unless you live in a cave I suppose you are having discussions with people.

I see things being posted in channel all the time being things being posted in Twitter and and References to Facebook. There's a tremendous amount of Well, let's be honest very shallow dialogue taking place Regarding morality and ethics and of course, we know as believers that a discussion morality and ethics requires man to recognize his true nature as the creature of God.

A Discussion morality and ethics that begins with man as an autonomous being not created a brief period of existence the the grass that Springs up in the morning and fades by the evening that it's really sort of a meaningless exercise it when you have an autonomous human being Who does not see his or her proper place?

You have a little demigod.

Who.

By its very nature is going to trivialize every meaningful issue that they address and.

So.

What I'm seeing in our culture is not serious moral and ethical reflection it is. It is people who have received most their instruction from No more than 30-minute programs and frequently much shorter than that on cable TV.

Or have imbibed it almost unconsciously From the slavish observance of Hollywood movies Blabbing about things about which they really have no understanding at all but demanding that their opinion is Equal to everyone else's opinion.

No one Has more right to be heard than every single individual even if they have devoted Absolutely, no meaningful thought whatsoever To the subject and they're just going with the flow. It is it is a sad thing to observe, but it should not surprise us.

I know it's it continues to bother me. I suppose I should always be bothered by but I shouldn't be bothered by it by oh, this shouldn't be happening. I should be bothered by it because this is the natural progression of the decay of a nation.

In fact, I I had to rush in and I apologize for that had a lot of stuff going on today but there is a there was a quote that I saw and Oh if I could just find it real quick. It was there was a there is a is there a wiki quote? Page something like that because There is a John Adams quotation about morality this morning, and I think I I re-quoted it actually and I would love to pull it up for you, but in essence It was a a statement that said up there.

It is there it is found it. I was Gotta love gotta love the internet.

We.

Have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled my morality and religion avarice ambition. Revenge or gallantry would break the strongest now. And by the way, I actually looked at this.

There's two versions of this and this is coming from a his collected works. There's another place this letter appears. It doesn't say gallantry. It was a Reference to sexual license anyways. Would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net.

Listen to this. Our Constitution is designed only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for any other. Man our Constitution is designed only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for any other and we are not a moral or religious people any longer and Here you have the evidence of that in the article that I was referring to by Michael Gerson, this is in The Washington Post.

The nation's religious composition as revealed in a recent presentation by Luis Logo the Pew Research Center is changing in 2012 America ceased to be a majority Protestant country and the result mainly of a decline the number of mainline Protestants.

Though there have been smaller losses among white evangelicals as well. Catholicism is holding its own the stable 22 of the public but its ethnic composition has shifted dramatically. About half of all Catholics Younger than 40 are Latino.

One group, however has swelled those with no religious affiliation also known as nuns as in none of the above. In the 1950s, this is about 2 of the population's 1970s is about 7 Today is close to 20

There's almost as many nuns as There are Roman Catholics, which is sort of funny. But anyway, these gains can be found all regions of the country including the south. The trend is particularly pronounced among whites among the young and among men.

Not all the nuns that is worth pointing out are secular. Only about now, of course I'm gonna disagree with his use of secular here. Only about 30 of this group 6 of the public are Atheists or agnostics.

The rest of the nuns describe themselves as indifferent to religion or as nothing in particular. 64 of the nuns however say they believe in God or a universal spirit with absolute certainty. Even 9 of atheists and agnostics defying both dogma and the dictionary report themselves absolutely convinced of God's existence.

Well We've always said that people like Christopher Hitchens. Doug Wilson is right. He's absolutely certain of two things. God does not exist and he hates him and. That's exactly correct about equal proportions.

Of the religiously unaffiliated 19 and the affiliated affiliated 18 report having seen or been the presence of a ghost. I'm not really sure what that has to do with anything, but this is a Washington Post article so the nuns are united not by reading Richard Dawkins or of any particular set of theological beliefs by complete lack of attachment to institutional religion.

Yet while conversion has increased the ranks of the nuns retention is not particularly good. Protestants and for example loses about 20 of those raised Protestants. Of those raised unaffiliated 40 fall away from the non-faith and rebelled toward religion.

Making for a new generation of awkward Thanksgivings. Though the nuns are varied and occasionally confused their overall growth has been swift and unprecedented. This has occasioned scholarly disagreement over the causes.

I don't think there's really much of a reason to be cons to be confused about what the causes are. These kinds of polls all the time Massively inflate the number of people who are called Christians. We know.

We know that the vast majority of our fellow citizens Do not bow the knee to Lordship of Jesus Christ. They do not make decisions in their lives based upon God's will or scripture or anything of the kind if if you if you take even semi seriously.

The.

Biblical definition of what a disciple of Jesus Christ is. There is no way that these polls mean almost anything. Which means you have a tremendous amount of nominal Christianity and Once you have nominal Christianity facing the constant wearing effect of secularism.

The secular educational system, which has been you know, just been completely taken over By the opponents of anything that's godly at all. This is what you're gonna get you're gonna get people who again think that they are well wiser than God and Think that well none of the above, you know all those people and all those things, you know.

All that stuff that's gone on before me isn't relevant. I don't even need to be concerned about don't need to think about it. It doesn't matter what people were thinking in the past. I Just don't have to do anything.

I have nothing to do with any of it. I'm a nun and Oh any and The result of this is a tremendous amount of Soul searching on the part of quote-unquote conservatives today. Now, I Know there are people who listen to this program.

I don't know why you listen to this program. But there are people who listen to this program who do not share with me Fundamental presuppositions in regards to the accuracy inspiration Binding force and relevance of the scriptures.

But you listen anyways, I I don't really know why I would get bored listening to someone like me if I didn't believe in those things but anyway, and there are people Who for example? Do not believe that we should be pointing out the history of the papacy and the Roman Catholic Church and the Inquisitions and and The the false teachings and the house of Loretto and all the rest of that stuff.

We shouldn't be talking about those things because we all need to be pulling together to save our society as if political alliances are the mechanism by which a society is going to be saved one way or the other and You don't like hearing about stuff like this you don't like When we talk about Roman Catholicism.

We don't you don't like when we talk about the fact that There's actually a much smaller number of true Christians in our society than polls would indicate because simply asking someone. Well, what do you think you are is?

Not the biblical standard of discipleship. Okay, that's read first John you know when it says By this you may know there was a there was a bunch of stuff that came before the by this Including the love of the Brethren and You know serious Christian discipleship and stuff like that.

That's the reason all the result of grace anyway. And so When you look at What's going on? There are a lot of people that are scratching their heads and and gazing at their navels and They're going how could this have happened?

And I'm saying how could it have not happened? I mean it looks like I mean I'm I'm not a prophet nor a son of a prophet but listening to the reports and listening especially to the actual recordings of the questions from the Supreme Court justices yesterday.

You know, it struck me. You know, you know the one thing that could not be said within the the chambers of the Supreme Court yesterday. Is that there is anything morally wrong with homosexuality? Not even allowed not it can not even be on the table and as a result I think dome is going down.

I think they're gonna Pass on proposition 8 on standing. That's my there's my predictions. Okay, they're gonna pass on proposition 8 on standing should never have come before us and Which will mean it's half gonna go back and start all over again.

It's a couple years for that one gets back and it it'll probably be irrelevant by the time it does. Because of some other case that comes up by them. And Doma is going down and people go. How can this be?

I Mean this was so fast how did it happen so fast? The speed is due to the fact that the foundations have been gone for a long time. We've been running on inertia. Been running on inertia the foundations have been gone.

It's it's a little bit to be honest with you like Wiley Coyote. You ever noticed Wiley Coyote can chase the Roadrunner right out into space you know ten yards off the edge of a cliff and It's amazing how long it takes Before he starts to fall.

It's it's the inertia thing now. I realize that that's not Really true to physics, but you you understand what I'm talking about, but the the foundations Were gone a long time ago, and it's just that the the fall is happening so rapidly now because We're looking at a younger generation that is now unlike their parents their parents had had parents that still had some deep influence from Scriptural teaching that that infiltrated the society.

Now you're getting to a generation. It's just it's completely gone. It's completely gone, and that's why you look at what people watch on television, and you and you you see just an abject moral nightmare and I just go back to John Adams.

Our Constitution is designed only for a moral and religious people it is wholly inadequate for any other we are now the other. We are the other and the Constitution just is inadequate for even Attempting to deal with this kind of stuff, so there are Evangelicals who are very concerned about these things and they're trying to position themselves.

What are we supposed to do this is coming. We've got. Even in the midst of all the the the facts in the world that demonstrate that abortion is the murder of an unborn child. I don't think that's going away.

Because it's a matter of convenience. It's a matter of allowing for sexual activity without without any consequences. Which of course fits with the the new worldview? That we're just animals. It's Time to realize that we are Strangers and pilgrims we've just my generation.

Hey, you know we could take comfort in the idea that there was a general morality in our nation not a longer and We've just got to get over it. Someone's moved my my cheese, and I'm very bothered by that.

We just got to get used to it. What that means of course? Is becoming a prophetic voice and. And our job and It's not a comfortable job. It is not a job that is going to make us popular. Our job is to deliver a message of repentance.

Remember John the Baptist. He didn't do too well with that remember he's popular for a while. But then he wasn't and in fact he ran afoul of the authorities and and lost his life and. So we have a job and.

And our job is not to lament. Oh the good old days our job is to recognize the good old days are gone and We have a message, and it is going to be a message that is going to absolutely Offend our society and that is repent and believe.

For the wrath of God abides upon any people who engage in these activities. And you go. Oh come on man. Are you out of are you out of step? Am I out of step with what I certainly hope I'm out of step with this this society for crying out loud.

I I want to be out of step with this society this society is running full bore away from God toward destruction. I don't want to be in step with that. But am I out of step with the Bible. Am I out of step with what John the Baptist did?

What John the Baptist do? What got him killed. He told a powerful political leader you sir are living in sin. Now was John the Baptist wrong for doing that. Answer the question those of you who are quote-unquote evangelicals who are who are looking forward to the time when when evangelicals become comfortable with gay marriage if if you are actually to the point of saying that.

That we really just need to move on and accept this. Then I just want to ask you where do you get your marching orders from. Where do you get your paradigm from. Is It is it CNN? Fox News or Do you get it from Scripture?

John the Baptist told a man a Governmental authority you are in sin. God's wrath will come upon you cost him his life and I can just hear a lot of people today going. Well, you know, he shouldn't have done that.

He could have had a much longer ministry and impacted many people if he had just controlled what he was saying.

Right, I.

Can hear people saying that right now? I get it all the time. You're gonna drive people away. Well what brings people to the church in the first place. Oh theology matters again. Isn't it the preaching of the Word of God the calling of repentance made alive in the heart by the Spirit of God?

Yeah, theology matters. And so There are people Who are. Well, for example, there is a story in the Huffington Post Evangelicals face growing tension between political and personal views of gay marriage.

First I reject that terminology and all as well. It's no such thing if you're gonna say that you need to be able to explain why that is by the way and Quickly and clearly and concisely and without stumbling all over yourself.

Interesting discussion of Tim Keller. Here from Huffington Post is not exactly your your. A conservative source of information here Keller holds of you that marriage between one man and one woman shocking.

Sorry, but he has avoided focusing on the gay marriage debate preferring to emphasize Christians responsibility to love their neighbor. He has said that quote heterosexuality does not get you to heaven end quote which earned him criticism from more conservative evangelicals.

Well I'm not sure what about that is offensive. It would be the context in which it was stated Heterosexual heterosexuality does not get you to heaven. But homosexuality Means you're under the wrath of God because it's a sin.

Heterosexuality can be a sin in the sense of the exercise of that outside of marriage or incestuously or You know all sorts of other things. I Just don't know what the context was. There is a link I suppose I could look at it.

But anyways At the Ethics and Public Policy Center forum however Keller made a somewhat surprising prediction. Giving the speed of which much of public opinion seems to be swinging in support of gay marriage and by the way.

Why is that? I'm hearing it all the time all the time. 80 of the Millennials support gay marriage. Why is It because of the overwhelming Power and depth of the arguments for it. Which would require you to believe that every generation before this one was a bunch of stupid stilted idiotic bigots.

Well, I know a lot of young people that would go. Oh, yeah. Oh Yeah, that's what it was. You all are bunch stupid bigot. Is it because of that? No, it's not because of that. It's not because that at all.

This is a dangerous time because it is a people changing course without thought. It's it's driving it's. It's a it's a child jumping into the seat of a semi-truck and deciding to just spin the wheel.

That's what you've got here people who just Just don't have any respect for the past at all anyway. Large numbers of evangelical Christians even younger ones. He said Will continue to hold the view that same-sex marriage runs counter to their faith.

Even as they increasingly decide they either support or do not oppose making it the law of the land. Okay, I Have encountered a lot many people of Many evangelicals many people who profess to claim the name of Jesus Christ.

I have met many of them Who said why are we worried about this marriage is something God established? And so why should we care a lot of people take that perspective?

And.

At that point again, theology is going to matter and because a lot of evangelicals are infected with a an utter disrespect for the Old Covenant scriptures an utter disrespect for God's law and Have never been challenged to think through the relationship of God's moral law To nations and kingdoms and and there are movements the New Covenant theology stuff.

Specifically said I remember being in a conversation once with one of the promoters of New Covenant theology, and I asked the question will This public leader who has promoted abortion, etc. Etc. Be held accountable before God for his actions and no no not at all.

Mm-hmm will not be held accountable. So there are a lot there's there's an entire theology out there. It says mm-hmm. Nope, there's there's a there's a big divide and you're just judged on what you do personally and what you know.

What a what a person does in promoting? Homosexuality profaning marriage. Murdering unborn children. Just promoting the whole culture of death versus the biblical culture life doesn't matter. It doesn't it doesn't enter in and that's when you have to go.

All right, if if that's the perspective you take you need to explain to me What the message of the church is to be in the world or I guess there are some that don't believe that there's any.

Message at all.

That that we're not to proclaim God's moral standards to the world. We're just stay out of it just to keep our mouths shut. That's only for within the church. If you become a Christian then God has standards of morality for you.

Otherwise, you're just another gender person and you can do whatever you want. Now the problem with that of course is That you know the very first words out of Jesus mouth and he preached was repent and believe the gospel repent for what?

Well, I guess there would be some people would say well just your personal sins but there's this one little problem and That is you you have the testimony of the Old Testament scriptures. We recently for example At our church have been going through The book of Jeremiah, we're almost done that last chapter is a long one and I've actually been missing a lot recently because I've been doing a lot of traveling so may we're done.

I would couldn't be done yet. Pastor I did mention he was to be going somewhere else. But as he said he didn't know where yet. But anyone who goes through Jeremiah or you go through the minor prophets Will find these odd little places where the scriptures all of a sudden address Nations and cities that are not a part of the covenant people of God they are outside God's covenant people and yet there is and I think a lot of people to skip over this stuff because they're like That was a long time ago.

I don't know where these people are anymore, and I don't look at but there are all these sections where Babylon and Egypt and Philistia and all these, you know, Tyre and Sidon and There's there's just you can find them all over the place.

And and since most people don't know much about the geography of the Old Testament world, they don't really concern themselves about it but but God through a prophet sends a a word of Warning that God's judgment is going to come upon them and sometimes it's because of how they've treated God's covenant people.

Sometimes it is and Jesus, you know, woe to those who offend even the least of these and all the rest of that stuff. But some of the other things that are said aren't about that in fact, there's this stuff about justice and there's this stuff about oppressing widows and orphans and and stealing from people and Engaging in military campaigns and murder and sexual immorality and and the promotion of idolatry and it seems like God warns these nations that When you break my law Judgment will come upon you and so here we are we are now in a nation that has just in a in a short matter of years thrown off The restraint of Judeo-christian morality just thrown it off.

Just said we don't want it. We're tired of it dragging on us we want to be able to have sex the way we want to have sex with whom we want to have sex and We don't want these restraints anymore. And we don't we don't believe that the greatness of this nation was the result even though if you if they knew anything about history.

And if there's one thing I can say about young people today, they don't know history and don't care about history. But if you were to read even as recently as the Second World War The official proclamations of The leaders in Britain or in the United States there was much discussion much discussion of the role of God in The blessing and pursuit of Liberty and freedom and peace and everything else but we don't want to think about any of that anymore and so all the blessings we've had and the Prosperous economy and the fact we haven't had wars on our land since since the 1860s.

It's not a blessing of God, that's just that's just our own wisdom you see. We've just been good all that's been thrown off just Not even just all thrown off and the results well. Results are obvious and so as it says here.

Even as they increasingly decide they either support or do not oppose making it the law of the land if we have.

If.

Those prophetic pronouncements of judgment in the minor prophets and the major prophets in the Old Testament were valid because those nations had Sinned against God's law as Nations. What are we supposed to say.

Was that just back then. Is it okay now? What changed? Unfortunately the vast majority of evangelicals have not even given thought to such things. I've not even given thought to it now. Keller goes on to say here.

There's a tendency to say where evangelicals going. I think they're going to look more and more politically. Actually like conservative Roman Catholics and like African Americans. I think that's where they're going.

Keller said I don't understand any of that. Continuing but the inertia of the Bible keeps them from I think getting really very liberal when it comes to theology and social ethics. Keller clarified that quote you can believe homosexuality is a sin and Still believe that same-sex marriage should be legal end quote.

This is the argument that some this is not a quote here. This is the author again. This is the argument that some religious conservatives are already beginning to make and looks likely to be the position that most evangelicals end up settling on articles on changing attitudes among GOP youth illustrate the move towards separating government sanctioned marriage and Church sanctioned marriage.

We read that quote again. You can believe homosexuality is a sin and still believe that same-sex marriage should be legal. Now. Again, I We're hearing that a lot the article is correct and identifying that as being a perspective that that is definitely out there.

So is that simply a statement that homosexuality is a sin therefore same-sex marriage is sinful. It is not blessed by God. But in a pluralistic society that decides to allow it. That's like saying abortion should be legal or Adultery should be legal or or what?

I don't know. But I would like to hope that somewhere in those comments There was a statement that said that if same-sex marriage is legal It should also be legal for Christians to say such prof profanation profaning of a God-ordained Institution Will bring the judgment of God that's necessary.

It's got to be there if you don't say that you're not speaking the truth.

Well, I was gonna say and you made the point what's the difference between that and a Roman Catholic. We see politicians all the time. Say well, you know abortions bad and I'm a good Roman Catholic and I you know.

But but I don't want to force my religious beliefs into the political realm, right?

You know, we get we get we get pretty disgusted with Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden when they they proclaim their orthodoxy as Catholics and then Do everything in their power? To promote the exact opposite of Roman Catholic teaching we go.

That's hypocrisy. It's exactly the word.

I was thinking of hypocrisy is hypocrisy and they can see it when they look in the mirror. Don't tell me otherwise, you know.

Oh, there's no question about it. So how can an evangelical say? Homosexuality is a sin which by the way, as I said could not even be allowed into the discussion before the Supreme Court. The morality of the act it's it's now a it's now a given.

It's now a given. Wow people are filling the channel with quotes from the Old Testament about. I was gonna say I in listening to it myself.

I I just felt like the the the class status Designation is already there by default in the discussion. Yeah.

And that's that's 90 of the ground right there it is there's no question about it. So, I don't know how you can believe homosexuality is still believe the same-sex marriage should be legal unless you believe that the league the laws of the land Can be directly opposed to God's Law and that that's okay.

Or you're just saying that in a pluralistic society that's going to happen, but it is our Duty then to Call that nation to repentance for having those laws. Because it sounds like what they're saying is we're gonna stop talking about this once the fight's over.

We're supposed to shut up and And allow that which is evil to be called good.

I don't see how this doesn't force the real Christian Church into a defensive posture against the government and society and. The only message we can have at that point and not be hypocrites is Repent and a loud call to repentance.

I Mean, otherwise, what it what light are we shining here? What's the point? I.

Don't know. Privately some conservatives say they're waiting to see what the Supreme Court decides in June before they make a tactical retreat. But regardless, of course decision conservatives will likely conclude they have lost the broader cultural argument.

Especially among younger Americans over the legality of gay marriage. Excuse me. There hasn't been an argument if You think what's going on in Facebook and Twitter is an argument. You don't know what an argument is.

An argument requires thought. Meme pictures are not arguments for crying out loud. Movies are not arguments. Rockstars are not arguments. We haven't lost an argument. Because the argument hasn't been allowed to happen.

The argument ahead then will largely be over the question of now. This is scary this is scary. Listen to this. The argument ahead then will largely be over the question of religious liberty and whether moral objections to homosexuality within religious faith Deserve to be protected and to what extent.

I'll read that again. The argument ahead then will largely be over the question of religious liberty and whether moral objections to homosexuality within religious faiths Deserve to be protected and to what extent?

Wow Wow.

I.

I've been saying it for a long time. We are now cultural heretics and Cultures treat heretics pretty badly. Culturals they really do it's just a matter of time.

We were talking about this just the other day is just a matter of time after this unfolds before the first guy and guy walk to the largest church in their town and Demand the pastor marries them and when the pastor refuses here comes the lawsuits.

Yeah, and and it will Domino from there. Yep.

The Speed of Cultural Collapse and the Loss of the Foundations

Now.

There is a discussion here about. It says Keller devote most of his energy at the EP PC forum delaying the groundwork for greater tolerance of the evangelical view which of course Was once the only view in our society?

He cited author Jonathan Roush. Who has helped pioneer the arguments in favor of gay marriage and said Roush himself has acknowledged that quote. It's really pretty obvious. The Bible has a problem with homosexuality.

End quote. Roush's exact words in his December 2010 column for the advocate were this quote. Unlike white supremacism. Disapproval of homosexuality is still intrinsic to orthodox doctrines of all three major religions.

End quote. Roush continued that will change and is already changing. Younger evangelicals are much more accepting of same-sex relations than there are their parents. But for now, it is a fact we must live with.

End quote. Keller did not seem to share Roush's conclusion that a change in evangelical belief is inevitable. But he emphasized Roush's point that even if there is a change it will take a long time. He argued that for the foreseeable future many adherents the evangelical faith will not abandon their religious views of homosexuality.

Even if increasing numbers of evangelicals support legal rights for gay couples. Keller continued at some length to expand on Roush's point. If you say to everybody anyone who thinks homosexuality is a sin is a Bigot he says you're going to have to ask them to completely disassemble the way in which they read the Bible.

Completely disassemble their whole approach to authority. You're basically going to have to ask them to completely kick their faith out the door Keller said and he says that's not going to happen very fast.

Why not? It's happening very fast right now. Now he hopes it happens now and this is where it got strange. I Guess this is Keller talking about Roush and he says that's not going to happen very fast now.

He hopes it happens. Eventually. He did say that but he says I think this is Keller talking about Roush. This was rather unclear. But he says to think that in two or three decades the needle how many white supremacists are there any more that are really out?

There not many and to think that the same thing is going to happen about reservations to homosexuality is just la la land. Keller later in the session came back to Roush and specified how long he thinks any change would take.

He says if orthodox faith does morph to the place where people still have that high view of the text. There are still people the book and we've completely embraced Homosexuality as one way of loving and married if that does happen It will take a long time a very long time.

Not the sort of thing that could happen in 20 years or 50 years in which case we need to learn to live together Keller said now I don't know how you can have a high view of the text be a people of the book and not allow the book to define What loving relationships are?

It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. None. None at all. Anyway, I'm actually going to be on the Janet Mefford show on Monday. I believe to talk about this particular Discussion with Timothy Keller at the EP PC.

So I'll have more to say at that particular point in time. It's I'm just gonna read it again. We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion avarice.

Ambition revenge would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution is designed only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for any other.

There was another one in here somewhere was very interesting. Where he talked about debt national debt.

And.

Said Look at what has happened to other nations. We will not long last if we if we engage in that kind of thing and it's like well, okay. Somewhat prophetic some are prophetic. John Adams US diplomat politician founding father of the United States.

It's true.

877 -753 -3341 is the number and we do have a phone call I guess so I guess we'll go ahead and take that and Depending on other calls move on to another subject from there. Let's talk with Steve. Hi, Steve.

That going are you doing good? I actually want to thank you for you took a call from someone who was dealing with on Tuesday. He said he had a libertarian Friend that really took that position that you're kind of describing about.