Matt Slick Live: December 4, 2024

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The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network. It's Matt Slick Live!

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Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at calm .org.

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When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers. Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877 -207 -2276.

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Here's Matt Slick. Matt Slick, host, The Truth Network. Welcome to the show. I hope you're going to enjoy listening in today.

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Today's date is December 12th, December 12th, man, I'm messing up, December 4th, 2024.

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And I hope you enjoy the show today and what we do. If you want to give me a call, it's easy.

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All you have to do is dial 877 -207 -2276.

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And I want to hear from you. Give me a call and we can talk, all right? You can also email me at info at calm .org,

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info at c -a -r -m dot o -r -g. And put in a subject line, radio comment, a radio question, and that's what we need to do.

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All right? Okay. Now, let's see. We've got the calls coming in, but I want to get the number out one more time, 877 -207 -2276.

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And I'm checking the settings because we're already getting a report that the sound isn't quite right.

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And I'm not sure what the issue is. In fact, today I had to spend about an hour doing some sound troubleshooting on my computer.

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So maybe there's something going on. I don't know. I had a certain headset that wouldn't connect properly.

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So I don't know. But at any rate, it looks good. You know?

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Everything looks good. It should be working fine. There's the stuff, and I don't know.

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All right. We'll work on that. Let's get to John from Charlotte, North Carolina. John, welcome.

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You're on the air. Hey, Matt Slick. It's your chocolate brother in Christ, man.

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How you doing? Hey, brother. How are you, man? How you doing? I'm doing good, man.

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I haven't talked to you in a while. I've been over a year. But I'm glad you're still around and giving the truth, and I appreciate it, man.

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Well, you know, by God's grace, and about that, let's just say that if people want me to stay on the air, they need to really step up and support.

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Some things are changing behind the scenes. It's all over the place, and that's the only way we can stay on the air is if there's a significant increase.

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So I'm just giving you a heads up out there. Not a big deal. I've been doing radio 20 years, so it's not that big a deal.

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All right? Okay. So what do you got? Hey, man. Well, I'm going to kick it up, because as much as I eat

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Chipotle, I can cut back on that and step up my giving, so I'm on that, bro.

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I'm on it. It is. But I can... Yeah. Yeah. Or I'll have to drive out there and then do personal radio shows.

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You're living room. Okay. This is a nice little... That'd be fun. All right, buddy. What do you got, man? Hey, Asher.

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I hear you. Yeah. So I got a million things. I'm going to just only give you one thing. I've been hearing so much craziness.

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So there's a station here. I'm in Charlotte, and it's 780. I don't think it's the same station you come on.

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It may be, but at 780, it's a Christian station, and there's this program called

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Amazing Facts. That's Seventh -day Adventist.

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Okay. Ah, okay. Because I didn't know anything about them.

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I just have it on in the background, and it comes on in the morning. And I heard something weird the other day.

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They were saying something about, it sounds like you can kind of lose your salvation. That's not my question, but it kind of sparked my attendance to go up a little bit.

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So I was like, hmm, okay. I'm going to pay more attention to them when I hear what they say. So the next day, they were talking, and he started saying, and I had to turn the radio up.

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Did he say that? He said, Moses was resurrected. That was the first thing he said. I'm like, bro.

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So that kind of got me like, Moses was resurrected? I was like, bro, I don't know about that one. And then he said that,

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I went on Karm, because he mentioned, I don't believe in soul sleep whatsoever.

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I believe absent from the body and present with the Lord as soon as you die. But it just made me kind of look it up again.

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I went on Karm and read more about it, because he said, yeah, and some people believe when you die, you go right with God. He said, and this is a quote from that I recorded,

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I recorded it, and I will send it to you. He said, to be absent from the body is to be present with the

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Lord. He said, but they do not feel that now, because it hasn't happened, because we live in time.

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I was like, what? It may not, it's the weirdest thing,

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I'm like, and this dude is on the radio. So Moses was resurrected. And then when you die, you don't go straight, because he said, so he was saying

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Moses is proved that when you die, you don't go. He said it was a unique resurrection when

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Moses appeared in Scripture. And he was, he said, that was a unique circumstance, he said.

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But typically, when you die, you don't go straight to God. Yeah. So, yeah, the

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Seventh -day Adventist official doctrines are cultic, OK? They require works for salvation and the investigative judgment.

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A lot of people have websites exposing the false doctrines of the

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Seventh -day Adventist group. Ellen G. White, the founder of it, plagiarized, she stole writings, took it for her own.

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And they have what's called, like I said, the investigative judgment. And the investigative judgment is that on the day of judgment, your works along with your faith are examined or investigated for the ultimate conclusion of your reward in heaven.

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And this is very, very problematic. And they also say that Satan will bear our sins.

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He's the scapegoat set out in the wilderness. He will, our sins will be put upon Satan, and then he'll be annihilated.

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So, or set out there, I forget the views. So that's heresy also.

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Now, they say that Jesus is Michael, the archangel from the Old Testament. However, I will say that they think that Michael, the archangel, is the pre -incarnate

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Christ. So they're not saying that Jesus is an angel, like the Jehovah's Witnesses do, but that the angel that we just call

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Michael was actually the pre -incarnate Christ, and angel just means messenger. So that one, I have to clarify that that's within orthodoxy, though I disagree with their understanding of who

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Michael is. Now, there's another problem, because Jesus, the resurrection does not happen until Jesus is resurrected.

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He's the first fruits of the resurrection, and that's out of Colossians 115. So in Matthew 17, when they had the transfiguration and Moses and Elijah were there, it was not a resurrection.

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A resurrection means now they're in their glorified bodies. That's a problem. So, there's another issue that I get into after I make this statement.

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That guy doesn't know what he's talking about, and I'd be glad to debate him in public on these issues, on soul sleep, and was

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Moses resurrected in Matthew 17, the transfiguration. I'd be glad to debate him, whoever he is.

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Maybe people know who he is. I would love to hear that. I would love to hear that. I would pay money to hear that.

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I would be happy to debate him. I'm serious. I would pay good money to hear that. I offer debates like this.

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Oh, they won't. They won't. They won't. No, they won't. They won't. I met this guy.

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I went to Religious NRB, which I may be there in February, the end of February, this coming up year, in Dallas, where the

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Religious Broadcasting Network is. When I was at the one that was in Tennessee years ago, and I saw the main

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SDA guy, bald -headed guy and well -spoken. He's intelligent. I walked up and I said, hey,

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I've seen your stuff, and he goes, oh, okay, good, and I said, I'm a Christian apologist.

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I've been doing this for a long time. I'm just some guy off the street. I have a large website, and I'd like to formally challenge you to debate the issue of soul sleep.

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I think it was soul sleep I said to him, and the nature of salvation and stuff. I'll formally challenge you.

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He says he's not interested. Now, the Bible tells us to give an answer to everyone who would ask you for the reason of the faith that lies within you.

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Well, that's 1 Peter 315. So I asked him, and I can see why you wouldn't want to debate someone.

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But I would love to debate a representative of the

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SDA church. I'd challenge him, and right now is a formal challenge. Let's do it. But, you know, he won't do it.

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Okay? Yeah, for sure. When you have very little to stand on, typically those people won't debate you, and I don't want to draw comparisons, but kind of like Kamala Harris didn't want to go on Joe Rogan because it's like you can't, if you don't have enough truth to stand on, you don't want a platform where you can be exposed.

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Exactly. But, yeah. Yeah. So the SDA, just stay away from the SDA. Yes, we do.

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You can call back and get in line if you want. Okay? Yeah, I'm going to call back. I'm going to call back, big dog. All right, man.

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Call back. We'll get you in line, and we'll rotate through. Okay, buddy. All right. Hey, I like that guy.

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He's all right. Let's get to Kevin from Arizona. Kevin, welcome. You're on the air.

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Hey, how you doing, man? Hanging in there, man. Hanging in there. What do you got, buddy? Yeah, I just had a question about Taz and Offense, and I just wanted to ask you, if someone does not have a church home, who would they give their

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Taz and Offense to? Me. Just kidding. I couldn't help it.

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It was a good joke. I couldn't help it. It was a wide open door.

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What my wife and I did, when we were in between churches and stuff, is that we would help people that we knew needed help.

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We would buy them car tires, buy them whatever, and help people out with groceries if they needed.

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Just things like that, so that we were not just keeping to ourselves, but also trying to help people, because my wife's really good that way.

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And that's one of the things we did. Another option you could do is just save it up, and then when you find a church that you think is really good, you just give them a lump sum, and stuff like that.

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I could do that. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, so.

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Thanks, man. All right. All right, buddy. Glad you got that joke. That was a good one.

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All right, man. God bless. All right. All right. We'll see you later. All right. God bless.

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Okay. Okay. All right. Let's get to Marquise from Charlotte. Marquise, welcome.

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You're on the air. Hello. How are you? I'm doing okay. I'm doing okay. Yep. So, what's up, man?

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So, I ran into, I don't know if you know this, but on Prime Video, they have a satanic cartoon, and yeah, it's crazy, right?

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Like, Satan is no longer hiding behind the shadows. Really? We're living in that time.

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And so, they put out a trailer about creation, and according to their knowledge and what they teach their pupils and what they teach their disciples, they talk about a woman named

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Liz was created before Eve was. And for me, reading the first six chapters of Genesis has always been a mystery.

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In my mind, if you can explain to me the first six chapters of Genesis, then okay, you know, there's a lot going on there.

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But when you read the first two chapters, it seems like there's two different accounts of creation.

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One where the reader says God, and on the sixth day, he created male and female.

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He created them both, and he gave them dominion. Then chapter two, it says,

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Lord God, and it talks about putting

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Adam to sleep and then creating Eve. But then what caught my attention was when

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Cain killed Abel, he put a mark on Cain. Let's do the first one.

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So, Genesis 1 is just a broader explanation of creation. Genesis 2 is a narrower view of that day when he created

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Adam. That's all that's going on. The Jews knew about Genesis 1 and Genesis 2.

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Genesis 1 and 2 have a lot of information coded in them. So, the Jews understood, reading the

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Hebrew, what was going on. They understood. Hey, this says six days. This says one day. They understood that.

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They weren't dumb. So, they know what was happening, and it was just a reiteration of the first day of creation, basically, summarized for a different purpose.

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Hold on now. We've got a break coming up. We'll get to the rest of it. Okay. Hey, folks, be right back after these messages. Stay tuned.

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Be right back. It's Matt Slick Live!

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Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

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All right, buddy. Welcome back to the show. Let's get back on here with Marquis. Hey, buddy. You're on the air.

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Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yeah, so,

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I think we were talking about, you know, so I did a little research, and like,

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I know there's a lot of scholars who believe that it could be, you know, the same account, but it's broken down.

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My only thought was, is that the language that is used in Genesis 1 is different from the title that's given to God in Genesis 2.

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In Genesis 1, it says, God created, God created, God saw that it was good.

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But in Genesis 2, it changes from God to Lord God. So, the language there changes.

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So, it seems like it should be an inspection whether, you know, and I think in our

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Christian faith, anytime we've been taught, anytime we question anything, it could be heresy, right?

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Like, you shouldn't question. Yeah. So, for me, it's like...

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Have you heard of the Graf Wellhausen theory, or the documentary hypothesis, or the

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JEDP theory? Do any of those ring a bell? You're giving me information that I'm writing down, so can you repeat those one more time?

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Sure. It's all the same. They're different views of the same thing, different ways of saying it. The documentary hypothesis, all right?

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So, just look at that. Now, what that is, is an analysis by, so to speak, scholars.

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And they say, hey, look, Genesis 1 says God, the other one says, Genesis 2 says

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Lord God, so therefore there are two authors. That's what they'll do. And they have four authors that they say are the writers of the

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Pentateuch, the first five books of Moses. Now, this theory has been refuted many times.

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It's been dealt with. Furthermore, I wrote an article once. I remember this years and years and years ago.

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I was thinking about this a lot, doing research on it. I got up, and I just banged out this article in about an hour before church on what the documentary hypothesis was,

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JEDP, what it was. And then I went to church, and then came back, and then that day wrote the refutation for that, you know, what

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I showed. I said, here's what they teach. This is why they teach wrong. Okay, it's wrong. So I wrote two articles on the same day, same author.

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I then ran the, and I did this afterwards. I went, oh, wait a minute, I got an idea. And I ran it through, each article through a flash, kinkade grammar analysis thing, and the implication was we're two different authors because the active -passive voice patterns were different.

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The number of complex sentences was different. The phraseology was slightly different.

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And I put it in the article for the exact numbers, but it was like that. And it was proof to me that when the same author writes with a different perspective, aiming to do something different, that he will write differently.

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Now, let's look at Moses for a second. He's writing Pentateuch. He writes Genesis 1. He's under the inspiration of the

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Holy Spirit. He could have written that, and it's going to take a while to write it because there's some weird stuff in there

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I could show you about Genesis 1. But you could have taken a while to write it, and you could have thought about it for a month. Okay, you've got to write some more.

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You know, I've got to do this some more, and the Lord's putting it on his heart. And a month later, he's thought through, and then his ideas slightly change about how he's going to communicate things.

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And he might write a little bit different word pattern. I certainly have done that for my articles in different parts of the day.

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So this is not proof of anything. This is a liberal view that is trying to invalidate the word of God.

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But Jesus said that Moses wrote all this so he could trust Jesus, okay?

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No, I don't think it invalidates the word of God. I think we just...

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So God Himself said in the Old Testament, people are destroyed for the lack of knowledge. And so one other thing that made me raise my eyebrow is

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God always confirms His word, right? It's going to be found somewhere else, at least that's what we've been taught in Western Christianity.

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So why would God then put a mark on Cain after he killed his brother when there's only three?

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But who else? There's only his... There's only Cain. There's only Adam. And there's only

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Eve. Adam and Eve is not going to kill him, according to the account, right? According to the account itself, without interpretation, according to the account, don't worry about what was written, there was only

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Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel. Okay, let's go over that.

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Does it say there was only Cain and Abel? A problem arises when it says

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Adam and Eve had Cain and Abel. There were no other children. And then they went out and married somebody from the faraway land.

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And you go, wait a minute, that doesn't make sense. However, if you say they had Cain, they had

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Abel, it doesn't negate anybody else existing. If you go to Genesis 5 .4,

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it says in the days of Adam, after he became the father of Seth, were 800 years, and he had other sons and daughters.

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So the Bible tells us there were many other sons and daughters that they had. So to say that there's only

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Cain and Abel is not necessitated in the text. It just brings them out and focuses on them as a point of lesson and teaching.

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Okay? So you're saying potentially that Mark was put so that his family members, because they're all family, right?

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Yes, so that he would not be killed. By his family members? Yeah, because he had murdered.

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And so the judicial system had not yet been established. So the main theory is that they put a mark on him.

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Not for skin color, as some stupid people like to say. You know, the black people, that's what I've heard. You know, it's just ridiculous.

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What it is is a mark of some sort, a mark upon him. And that mark was so that others would know, this is who he is.

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Don't do anything to him. God's going to take care of it. Okay? Yeah, I mean, okay.

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Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Okay, we've got a lot of noise in the background there, okay?

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All right. Okay, buddy. So there you go. Call back, and we'll talk some more.

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All right. All right, now let's get to Patrick from Charlotte, North Carolina. Patrick, welcome.

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You're on the air. Hello, Matt. It's me, Patrick. I talked to you last night.

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I have a question today about the new technology, AI. Have you used the chat

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GPT app? Yes, I use it frequently. Okay, now,

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I've been using it the last week or so, and I find that it's really knowledgeable about the

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Bible. It is. And I believe that, I mean, that would be a good source to get answers about biblical questions.

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Would you say that's true? Yes and no. Now, because I know my theology exceedingly well, having been discussing stuff for over 40 years, when

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I go to chat GPT and I ask questions, I know where it's weak, and it's weak in some areas.

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So I've done a specific question to test it. And so it might get a few doctrines correct by definition, but it doesn't know how to put them together and do any exegesis or any analysis, really.

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So it's got a long way to go. Okay? Hey, we've got a break. Hold on, okay? Hey, folks, we've got a break.

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We'll be right back after these messages. If you want to give me a call, the number is 877 -207 -2276.

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We'll be right back. It's Matt Slick Live!

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Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

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All right, and welcome back to the show. I forgot to mention that, and we'll get to the caller again. I forgot to mention that today, this month, is

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Matching Funds Drive. And if you want to help us out and donate for the

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Karma Ministry, for the radio show, whatever it is, all you have to do is go to karm .org

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forward slash donate. And all the information you need is right there. So if you donate $10, it becomes $20.

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Someone will match it. We have a matching donor for that. I just want to let you know about that.

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And I don't like asking for money. I really do not. But it's something we need to let people know that that's how we stay on the air.

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It's just that simple. So if that sounds good to you and you want to support us, karm .org

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forward slash donate. All right, let's get back on with Pat.

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You still there, Pat? Yeah, I'm here. But the

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AI, I was pretty impressed with the knowledge it has of the Bible.

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How about yourself? Yes, it does have a lot of good things. I've used it to find verses that I couldn't locate quickly.

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And I'll type in a couple of concepts, say the word Bible, and mostly it'll find it pretty quickly.

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And then I can go in, examine stuff. Yeah, not a problem. Well, I did a search on it about the, you know,

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Jesus being the high priest. And it said that Jesus was the high priest once he was born.

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Do you believe that's when he began to be the high priest? No. He entered into the priesthood at his baptism,

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Matthew 3 .15. Don't trust AI. You have to know what you're talking about before you start putting any faith or trust in it.

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And just don't do that. Okay? Well, now you know that John the

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Baptist was sent to identify Jesus as the son of God.

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And God had given him a sign to say, look for, you know, for a dove.

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The one you see the Spirit descend and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.

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So wasn't John baptizing Jesus to identify which person was the son of God?

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He said it's, Jesus said that John needed to baptize him to fulfill all righteousness.

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That's Matthew 3 .15. To fulfill means the Old Testament. So Jesus was baptized according to the

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Old Testament law by being sprinkled out of it. He's giving me numbers 8 -7.

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I can go into this more detail. I've written an article on it. But that's what was going on. Yeah. But the reason he said we must do this now to fulfill all righteousness was just before that.

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John asked Jesus to baptize him. And Jesus said, no, we must do this now to fulfill all righteousness.

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I believe that Jesus had to let John baptize him so John could complete his testimony.

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And that's why Jesus was baptized. No, it's not. Jesus tells us it was to fulfill righteousness.

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Matthew 3 .15. He tells us the reason. That's why. To fulfill means the

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Old Testament. Okay, let me ask you. Don't you believe what Jesus said himself? Well, yeah.

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Jesus actually refused to baptize John the Baptist because he had to fulfill all righteousness. You're not listening. Patrick, Patrick, Patrick.

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You have a learning disability or something. We've talked so many times. Yes, you do. We've talked so many times.

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And I'll quote you the exact verse, Matthew 3 .15. I'll quote you. What Jesus said is to be done to fulfill all righteousness.

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That's exactly what it is. That's why he had to get baptized. To fulfill the

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Old Testament law. That's the reason. Not so that John the Baptist could do something or say something.

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Jesus gives us the reason. You need to believe Jesus. Okay, my question then to you is do you believe

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Jesus was sprinkled? Yes, I do. Where in Scripture does

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Jesus or the Bible describe how we should do a baptism today? Wait.

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How we should do baptism is a different question than verifying that he was sprinkled. This is out of the Old Testament law that he had to be.

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Well, no. Dude, let me finish, please. Because he could have been immersed according to Scripture when he went into the water with John the

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Baptist. Hold on. I've got to put him on hold. This is what Pat always does. Once he gets to the point where he wants to teach, we've got to stop him.

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So, ladies and gentlemen, let me explain why I say that Jesus was sprinkled. I know it's not a common thing. Most everybody believes that he was immersed.

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I don't believe that. And the reason I don't is because when Jesus says in Matthew 3 .15 to John the Baptist, the reason he needed to get baptized was to fulfill all righteousness.

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That means Old Testament. That means the law. Something had to happen. Something was happening per the

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Old Testament requirements. That's what's going on there. So, if you go to Numbers chapter 4,

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Leviticus chapter 8, and Exodus 29, and I've got an article on karma. Why was

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Jesus baptized? It gives the references, quotes the exact verses. If you go to those chapters in the

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Old Testament, what you see is that there were certain requirements. There were more, but the writer

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Matthew wrote certain things, I believe, to demonstrate this is what Jesus was fulfilling.

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These aspects of the priesthood requirements. In order to be a priest, you had to be 30 years of age. Jesus was 30.

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You had to have a verbal blessing given on you. My beloved Son, in whom I'm well pleased. Anointed with the

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Holy Spirit. And that's out of anointing with oil. And in 1 John 2 .27, the Holy Spirit is likened to oil.

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So, he's fulfilling all this, and then you go to the issue of water application. How's water involved?

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I did a deep study on every single instance of the word water in the Old Testament that dealt in the penitent.

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In fact, I did the Old Testament, everything. It took me quite a while. And no place did

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I see any place dealing with water in the priesthood that a person had to be immersed in the

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Old Testament in order to enter into the priesthood. In fact, in Numbers 8 .7,

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it says, and you'll sprinkle water on them. That's what the command is.

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I looked, and so that's why I hold to that position. And furthermore, I'm just saying this.

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People can call me up, we can talk about it. Furthermore, the more analysis I've done on baptism in the

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New Testament, the less I'm convinced it's immersion. And let me just talk about this a little bit, and I'll explain why

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I say that. For example, 3 ,000 people were baptized in Acts 2.

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3 ,000 were baptized. All right. Well, if 3 ,000 were baptized, then what would be necessary to accomplish that?

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And some people think, well, they just dunked 3 ,000 people, that was it. Well, wait a minute. What's required to do that?

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In the upper room, and I've been to Jerusalem and, you know, been to the area and looked up to see the upper room where you had to go up flights of stairs to get there.

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Water weighs something like 8 .3 pounds per gallon.

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And to baptize someone by immersion, you're going to have to have, I think it's like 200 pounds of water. You've got to lug up the stairs.

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Then you can do 3 ,000 people in one room in one thing.

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Mathematically, it doesn't work. And if you give them eight hours to do it, I think you have to baptize. It's like, where's the math?

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I've got to open this up. I did the math on this. I'm like, well, something's not right here. Logistics, here we go.

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Did I do that with that one? I don't know if I did with that one. I could do with the other one, though. And so you find out that there's not enough time for them to baptize 3 ,000 people.

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You baptize in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit. You dump them down. You raise them up. And where would they get the water from in the upper room?

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And where'd they get the baptistry? So that doesn't work. You have to go outside. And the only logical place they could do that is in the

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Jordan River or a large body of water. You don't want to go out into the fountain where people would consume water and use it for bathing and drinking.

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You don't want to have 3 ,000 people washing themselves in it. That's going to pollute it. So they have to go out to the Jordan River. And I did the math.

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If, for eight hours, 12 disciples were baptizing 3 ,000 people, then it would take one baptism every 2 minutes and 20 seconds, roughly.

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2 minutes and 20 seconds, you do a baptism. Now, I've been to the Jordan, and it's cold. So now, think about this.

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If you're standing out waist high in the Jordan River, you're going to baptize people. You're going to get hypothermia after a few hours.

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I used to surf and body surf and stuff like that down in Southern California. And on cold days, when it was in the 60s, the water, you get hypothermia.

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I wore a spring suit or some other wetsuits and go out there. You had to be careful. I was out there two hours one time in 58 -degree water, couldn't feel my legs anymore.

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I got to get out. That's over two hours. So if they're in the cold water, which is in the 60s and 50s, in the

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Jordan River on average, they're going to get hypothermia. So they can't be that far out there in the water.

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Otherwise, it's just not going to work. So then what? That means they've got to be closer to the shore, maybe up to the mid -thigh.

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But then that means they're going to get immersed, and they're going to dunk somebody down, they're going to drop them down and lift them up. Well, if they weigh 100 pounds going down, they're going to weigh 101, 102 coming up.

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Do that because they're wet, the clothing. Do that for eight hours, every two minutes and 20 seconds.

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Are they going to be able to last? That's if 12 disciples are baptizing. Logistically, there's problems like that.

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And I've got some stuff about John the Baptist. I did some interesting analysis of that as well.

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There's problems if immersion is the necessary means by which people are baptized.

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I'm not saying it can't be. But there are logistical problems with it, and that's just one of the examples of it.

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And I can get to that right as we get back to the break period pretty soon. There's the music.

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And we can talk about it. I know I'm really probably upsetting some people. But listen to the numbers. Listen to the facts.

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And then ask, what's going on? And I can show you exactly in the

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New Testament where the cognate of baptism is used in the context of sprinkling.

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I can do that too. Right out of the Bible. I think I'm going to get back. Be right back, please. Stay tuned. It's Matt Slick Live!

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Taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

34:17

Robert, welcome back to the show. And a reminder that we do stay on the air by your support. Please consider supporting us.

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And after what I just said, some people are going, I don't know. So that's okay.

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But just listen to the math. Listen to the numbers. So check this out.

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I'm going to move. Pat's still on hold. Check this out. In Mark 1 .5, it says,

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And all the country of Judea was going out to John the Baptist. And all the people of Jerusalem, and they were being baptized by him in the

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Jordan River. Now, what does that mean? So it says,

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And they came to John and said to him, Rabbi, he who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you have testified, behold, he is baptizing, and all are coming out to him.

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Now, it doesn't say that more than one person is doing the baptisms. But I'm assuming that is going to be the case.

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So here's the math I did. The population estimates for Judea and Jerusalem around that time were about 1 .9

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million people. 1 ,940 ,000 people.

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In 2 Samuel 24 .9, it puts the census of Israel at 800 ,000 men.

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Judah was 500 ,000 men. So if we assume an equal number of women, then that would have been about a million people.

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In 1 Chronicles 21 .5, the census of David, all of Israel, was 1 ,100 ,000 men.

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Judah was 470 ,000. This does not count women and children. So if we assume an equal number of women,

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Judah would have about 940 ,000 people. The population of Jerusalem alone at the time was around 55 ,000 people.

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But during feasts, it would swell to about 180 ,000. I've got the documentation for that. All right, now. The estimated time of John the

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Baptist's ministry when he was preaching was 3 months to 30 months. The shortest period is 3 months, the longest is 30.

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So if we just average it, that would be 14 months. Now check this out. When it says all of Judea and all of Jerusalem are going out to him, that's an exaggeration.

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It wasn't every single individual. So let's just say that 10 % were going out.

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I'm just picking a number because it says, I mean, they were going out, okay? They were here and they were doing it.

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If John alone was baptizing 10 % of the population, then he'd have to do approximately one baptism per minute, 8 hours a day, 30 days a month for 14 months.

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So if John alone was baptizing for 14 months, then he would have been able to do 13 ,857 a month

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If we grant 30 days as a month, that would be 462 baptisms a day, or 57 per hour, roughly.

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If John's disciples were helping him out, if three of John's disciples, then that would come out to 19 per hour, one every three minutes.

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If six of his disciples were helping him, then it would be one every,

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I think, minute and a half. Or one every six minutes, you could do it. You could take longer. If it was 12 disciples, you'd only have to do one every 12 minutes.

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Now that's workable, you know, for 8 hours a day, 30 days a month for 14 months.

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That means every day doing that. If 20 % of the population was baptized by John, then that's a problem because it means that he'd have to be baptizing someone every 30 seconds.

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That doesn't work. Now, again, if three of his disciples were helping, then that would be one every 1 .5

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minutes. If six were helping, one every three minutes. And if 12, each one would have to be doing it every six minutes.

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They'd have to have a baptism for every six minutes for 8 hours a day, for 30 days, for 14 months. Now this doesn't prove anything.

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What it's for is to get people to realize that, wait a minute, what's going on?

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That's all. So if 3 ,000 people were baptized in Acts chapter 2, and let's just say, let's just pick some numbers.

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It doesn't say these are the right numbers. I'm just using them to illustrate. And it was 8 hours of baptism.

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Then that would be 375 baptisms per hour. Okay? In 8 hours.

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They had to do 375 per hour. If the 12 disciples were doing it, if they were, then you'd have to do roughly 31 per hour or once every two minutes, roughly.

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That would mean then that every two minutes, just for 8 hours, to baptize 3 ,000 people, if 12 disciples are doing it, you've got to do one roughly every two minutes.

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Now, is that possible? When I ask people about this and I show that to them, they go, man,

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I've never thought about that. I said, I know. Now, I did say this.

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Let's see if I can find it. I'm going to go to Hebrews 9 and verse 10.

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What's going on here in the context is the Old and New Covenant. And in verse 6,

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Now, when these things have been prepared, the priests are continually entering the outer tabernacle performing the divine worship.

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But into the second, only the high priest enters. Verse 8, the Holy Spirit is signifying this, the way to the holy place.

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And verse 9, the outer tabernacle is still standing. Verse 9, which is a symbol for the present time.

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Accordingly, both gifts and sacrifices are offered, which cannot make the worshiper perfect in conscience.

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Verse 10, since they relate only to food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until a time of reformation.

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Now, I'm not going to go through all of it. But if you were to go through there,

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Hebrews 9, and you were to read, you'd see this in verse 19.

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Remember, it talks about the sacrifices of the animals in the temples and things like that. And food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body.

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And then the context is where the covenant is, must of necessity be the death of one who made it, that the first covenant is not inaugurated without blood, for when every commandment, this is verse 19, had been spoken by Moses to all the people, according to the law, he took the blood and the calves and the goats with water and scarlet wool and hyssop and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people.

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So right there in Hebrews 9, 19, it says that Moses sprinkled the people.

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And he did it with hyssop, which is a branch of a tree, dipping it in something and then sprinkling on people.

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Now, this is how the high priests were cleansed and the priestly work was done. When they go to the temple, they would wash themselves with water.

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They would take water and sprinkle it on themselves or pour it over their hands. They would do various things. Okay, now, the reason

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I'm bringing this up is because of something very interesting. As I said, in verse 10, it says they relate only to various washings, regulations for the body imposed until the time of reformation.

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This is the priestly work. That's verse 10. But when Christ appeared as a high priest, that's verse 11, and not through the blood of goats and calves, but his own blood, that's verse 12, and verse 13, for if the blood of goats and bulls and ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctified for the cleansing of the flesh, how much more the blood of Christ?

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Well, so we see that the means of their cleansing was by sprinkling, and it was later described as through a hyssop branch that it was done.

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Now, here we go. Since Hebrews 9 .10, since they, all the procedures around the temple relate only to food, drink, various washings, the word washings in Greek is baptizmos.

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That's what it is. In the context of baptizmos, which is a cognate, a cognate is like actor, actors, actress, actresses.

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It's the same word but has different forms. It's a cognate. So, the cognate of baptism is baptizmos.

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You have baptizo, baptizmos, baptizmos, and that's rendered as washings, and it's in the context of sprinkling in Hebrews 9.

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Now, I'm not trying to upset people, but I've never been afraid to tell you exactly what

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I find in Scripture. I'm not loyal to denomination. I'm not loyal to my church.

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My church says, you can't say that. Oh, I can't say it. Sorry, I'll get in trouble with the elders if I say it. I have the privilege of not being under that kind of thumb.

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And I'm not saying it's not good to be under elders. I have no problem with that. I'm not saying that at all. That's fine.

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But I'm just saying, I don't have any denominational loyalties, the carts full of their doctrines and stuff like that, traditions and particular ideas that I have to pull and say, this is what the truth is.

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No, I just go to the word. And I always want to be checked. And I talk to people who know the

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Bible. I know pastors. And we talk about things. I have other friends who know theology very well. I'm always being checked.

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I don't want you to think I'm independent. I'm not. I don't believe in that. That's not right. I go to church and talk. The pastor knows who I am, and et cetera.

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The elders knows who I am. That's not a boast. It's just, you know, oh, yeah, you need a radio here. Yeah, we know you follow your stuff.

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Good. Praise God. Okay, so if they were to say something to me, I'm absolutely going to listen. All right. Now, the point

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I'm trying to make here is simply this. Don't make assumptions. People too often just believe what someone says.

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And they say, oh, baptism always means immersion, for example. No, it doesn't. Or prove it doesn't always mean immersion.

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People say it does. No, it doesn't. Look, this is Acts 1 .5. For John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the

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Holy Spirit. The problem here is that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is always by pouring, because that's how the baptism occurs.

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By pouring. The Holy Spirit is poured. That's Joel 2 .28 -29, which is copied and quoted in Acts 2 .17

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-18. And it says this is the fulfillment of Joel that the Holy Spirit will be poured out. That's what it is.

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And so the baptism of the Spirit is the pouring of the Spirit upon you. Acts 1 .5.

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For John baptized with water, you'll be baptized with the Holy Spirit. So does that mean you'll be immersed with the

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Holy Spirit? Does the word baptized always mean immersion? No, it doesn't.

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It doesn't. We're out of time. I can show you so many things. I've done some extensive research.

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My notes, I'm looking at them. My Word document, Microsoft Word, is 50 pages, exactly 50.

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But I've done research on this and gone through and looked at all the occurrences of the cognates.

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Like baptism number 907 can mean washing of hands. It can be experiencing tribulation.

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Do you not know what you're asking? Are you able to drink the cup that I drink? Or be baptized with the baptism with which

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I'm baptized? They said, we're able. Jesus said to them, the cup I drink, you shall drink. You shall be baptized with the baptism with which

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I'm baptized. And that's about persecution. So you see, the word means what it means in its context.

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I just resent when people say it always means just one thing. That's not the case. People say to me, well, the

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Ethiopian eunuch and Philip went to the river.

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They both went down into the water, right? And they both came up out of the water. That shows they were immersed. Wait a minute, they?

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Right, the Ethiopian eunuch went into the water, but he went with Philip and they both came out of the water.

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Does that mean they're both immersed? What's going on? And so I love to teach on this because it gets people's attention.

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I know right now there are people listening going, uh, I don't know about that. And that's okay.

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That is okay. But I just suggest that what people do is to study this and study it and just don't be so adamant that, for example, the word baptizo in Greek always has to mean immersion.

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It doesn't. That's a fact. Now what does it mean in different contexts? And then there's the issue of being baptized with water.

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What is that phrase, with water? Because you can be anointed with oil, with blood, with the spirit.

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What does that mean, baptized with water? Oh, there's so much I can teach on.

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But we are out of time. May the Lord bless you. I know I've irritated a lot of people, upset you a lot. I'll call back tomorrow if you have questions about this.

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And if not, hey, remember, I hope you have a great evening. May the Lord bless you. We'll talk to you tomorrow by His grace.