January 9, 2017 Show with Bill Shisko on “The Rise & Fall of Family Radio” & “The Rise of Redeemer Broadcasting”

The Program Opens With the Host's Welcome and Upcoming Events

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio platform on which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us. Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions. Now here's our host.

Chris Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania and the rest of humanity who are living on the planet earth. Listening via live streaming. This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron. Wishing you all a happy Monday on this ninth day of January 2017 and Before I introduce my topic and guests today and my co-host I want to remind you that this Thursday and Friday the 12th and 13th of January Iron sharpens iron is having two major events here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania on Thursday January 12th from 11 a .m. To 2 p .m.

We have dr. Tony Costa professor of apologetics at Toronto Baptist Seminary Coming all the way out here from Canada to be our keynote speaker at the iron sharpens iron pastors luncheon and this is going to be held at the beautiful Carlisle vault catering hall, which is a Beautiful building.

It is a historic Bank Dating back to the early 19th century. Hence the name vault va ulti because they still have the gigantic vault door in the the catering hall that is actually a doorway between different rooms in the the venue there.

We are going to not only have dr. Costa speaking but a delicious gourmet meal is going to be served by chef exclusive. Who is doing this as their treat to the pastors? And every pastor is going to be leaving there with a bag.

Containing between 20 and 30 brand new books that have been donated by generous Christian publishers all over the United States and the United Kingdom nearly every major Christian publisher Is donating and has been for a number of years donating books to this event so that every pastor leaves with between 20 And 30 books and this is a tradition Begun by my late wife going all the way back to the 1990s Tradition a tradition.

I am trying to keep alive after her going home to glory with Christ in eternity so this is always done in her honor and obviously first and foremost to the praise honor and glory of Jesus Christ and I hope that as many of you who are men in ministry leadership as possible can attend.

But please let me know no later than tomorrow by 12 noon if you plan on coming to this event. You can email me at chris arnzen at gmail .com chris ar n z n at gmail .com. Also Friday the 13th the very next night Friday January 13th at 7 p .m. At the historic Carlisle Theatre another gorgeous Building that dates back to the early 20th century that has been restored to its original Beauty and grandeur the 900 seat Carlisle Theatre is going to be our venue for The next iron sharpens iron great debate featuring the aforementioned. Dr. Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary and Roman Catholic apologist Robert St. Genes of Catholic apologetics international their theme is going to be Mary sinless Queen of Heaven or sinner saved by grace and that's 7 p .m Friday the 13th at the Carlisle Theatre and Tickets are $5 apiece for that and and all are welcome from the general public to attend that men women and children and For more details, you can email me at chris arnzen at gmail .com chris arnzen at gmail .com and put either luncheon or debate or both in the subject line for Directions and parking information for either of these events you can go to Carlisle vault calm that's C a r l i s l e vault calm or Carlisle theater org and Carlisle theater the theater part is spelt the old-fashioned way re at the end not er so Carlisle theater org with an re at the end or the Carlisle vault calm.

So we hope that as many of you as can make it to the debate attend that event as well. And I'm so delighted to have back on my program today one of my Favorite guests of all and also a very dear friend in Christ going back to the mid 1980s when I first became a believer.

He was one of the first Bible believing born-again pastors That I had even met outside of my own pastor at the time as a new Christian and I thank God that he had saw fit to form a friendship between My guest and I that has lasted decades and has only grown stronger.

And I'm looking forward to what the Lord has in store for us in the future. I'm speaking of pastor Bill Shishko and pastor Bill Shishko is Currently hosting a program called a visit to the pastor's study.

Which you can hear anywhere on the planet earth via live streaming at WL IE 540 a .m. Dot-com. That's a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern Time and we're also going to be hearing more about his ministry Reformation, New York or Reformation Metro, New York.

And today our theme is going to be The fall of family radio and the rise of Redeemer broadcasting and then we are going to spend the second hour focusing more on Pastor Bill show a visit to the pastor's study and Reformation Metro, New York.

But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron pastor Bill Shishko. Yeah, well, you know believe it or not. We do have people coming out from Long Island though. In fact, we could we have people coming from Long Island, Virginia Washington DC Maryland New Jersey and of course anybody's gonna look for an excuse to get out of New Jersey.

But we're looking forward to that and I want to introduce you once again this time on the air To our co-host today Charlie Liebert founder of six day creation calm. Thank you. Chris. It's good to be here.

Hey, Charlie. I could you get and.

Today the Orthodox Presbyterians outnumber the Reform Baptist to the line. Sorry. But pastor bill, you know something if you don't mind briefly because I know this is not the main theme of our show. But if you could just tell our listeners something about.

In summary form your own personal journey to salvation that the providential things that our Sovereign Lord brought about in your life that brought you to a saving knowledge of him and also How you came to discover and embrace the doctrines of sovereign grace or reform theology?

I was working at a look wired of a fundamentalist arm and that and that was the fan. Can it be near the public liberating thing. Economy convert? Yeah, I understand that.

The today's gospel Authentic or a synthetic by Walt Chantry was somehow used by God to bring you into the doctrines of grace. Yeah.

Are you kidding me. I was. I was running fast energy of my own.

Which church was that in Greenville?

That was Shannon Forest.

Presbyterian Church when Terry and I lived there for two years from 78 to 80 and we were in Mitchell Road with dr. Yeah cross. He's the one that discipled me trained me as a deacon and then trained me as an elder.

Amazing.

Well, just to give you a very briefly an example of how the altar call since you brought that up Has been misbe misused and become a very superstitious Event in the life of many Christians. In fact, it's become like a third ordinance or sacrament, but I bumped into this Fundamentalist Baptist couple in Cracker Barrel and They were from a freewill believing anti Calvinist King James only fundamentalist group.

And the woman the wife Said that the reason that she did not join Grace Baptist Church when she visited it is that we don't have Walter calls and she said You know that she invited somebody that she knew to church Who was not a Christian and the person went forward and got saved at an altar call at their church.

And she said I am so glad that we had an altar call. Otherwise, my friend would not be saved today and I'm like, are you kidding me? Do you think God has his hands tied behind his back? Waiting for something that we do to manipulate people.

I mean that what kind of a God is that? I mean, that's just totally amazing to me. Well, we are going to be discussing as one of our major themes the fall of family radio before we get to the rise of Redeemer broadcasting.

But actually why don't we talk a little bit about the rise of family radio so people even know what we're talking about that. That was at one time the go-to radio network Globally for reformed teaching and although mr. Camping the late Harold camping always had oddities in my opinion the the the radio network was a treasure trove of a phenomenal preaching and in fact.

Their program.

Conference echoes, which was later shortened to echoes where they aired the sermons of reformed pastors and preachers and evangelists. They they got so accustomed to loving the tapes that I sent them at family radio, New Jersey that as soon as they saw my name on the package, they said okay, this is going on the air and I can hardly remember any tapes that I submitted to them that they did not play on on echoes and I know that you were on there a lot and.

So why don't you tell us something about family radio and then and how it? Sadly and tragically.

Spiraled into insanity. It took about two minutes. Oh sure. That's I mean obviously because I was I was working in radio when I was 15 I was converted to a radio minister radio far more than. You know, I find it fascinating.

Radio broadbury second night when believe it or not West the the think actually they had the first radio network. The the. What if you've got a commercial you have five minutes before we go to a break.

Okay, I was also which is preaching 1939 that the Christian Reformed churches Began the back and I was. There was a brief yes, I remember that report to the Christian Reformed Church is kind of saying hey if we're going was the.

Yes, I had the honor and privilege to have Joel meter hood as a guest on iron sharpens iron and he wrote a wonderful commendation for the the program and I can recall not only listening to his radio program, but I remember when I would wake up early in the morning Every week to make my commute to New Jersey when I was working for Salem communications their affiliate out there WMCA.

I remember when I was still getting my coffee and such in the house that I would have dr Nader hood on my television for faith 20. But we are gonna go to our first break now. If you'd like to join us on the air our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and please include at least your first name your city in the state And your country of residence if you live outside the USA and by the way I want to make sure that I give a shout out to a Lovely young lady that I met today who is the assistant manager at Lifeway?

Christian stores In Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. It was a quite a providential occurrence when I went to Harrisburg with a friend of mine who needed to Return his cable vision equipment since he had moved to a different location.

I'm sitting there in the parking lot and I see this gigantic Lifeway store there as I'm sitting in the parked car I said, hey, I'm gonna bring some flyers for the debate and the luncheon Into that store and I walk in there and the assistant manager Elizabeth Nilla walkie, I believe her name is like I'm looking at her name right now, but I don't know if I'm pronouncing it correctly.

Nila walkie. Well Elizabeth as we started to chat and she asked me what congregation I was a member of I told her Grace Baptist Church In Carlisle, and she said you're kidding me I'm a Reformed Baptist too, and I was raised in that church.

And I went to the church plant for a while in Chambersburg and now I go to a different church, but I'm Reformed Baptist and so is so are my parents and my family and so it was a small world and she was kind enough to Hang up some of the flyers and in the store there.

So I just wanted to give a shout out to Elizabeth Nila walkie and Lifeway Christian stores in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. We'll go into a break right now and don't go away we'll be right back after these messages with pastor Bill Shishko of Reformation Metro, New York.

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I'm Chris Arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio. And here's one of my favorite guests Todd Friel to tell you about a conference. He and I are going to.

Hello, this is Todd Friel host of wretched radio and a wretched at TV and occasional guest on Chris's show. Think I think that's what it's called. Hoping that you can join Chris and me at the g3 conference in Atlanta my new hometown.

It is going to be a bang-up conference called the g3 Conference celebrating the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation with Paul Washer Steve Lawson da Carson Vodie Baucom Conrad and Bayway Phil Johnson James White and a bunch of other people.

We hope to see you there. Learn more at g3 conference .com g3 conference.

Thanks Todd, I think. See you at the iron sharpens iron exhibitors booth.

Hi, I'm pastor Bill Shishko inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m Eastern Time on wlie radio www .wlie 540 a .m. Dot-com. We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with your questions.

Our time will be lively Useful and I assure you never dull join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the pastor's study because.

Everyone needs a pastor. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen with the man that you just heard pastor Bill Shishko the Orthodox Presbyterian Denomination. He is the host of a visit to the pastor's study as you just heard and he is also Involved in the founding of a ministry called Reformation Metro, New York that we'll be hearing more about.

We are discussing right now the rise and fall of family radio and we'll be getting around to discussing the rise of Redeemer broadcasting in the studio. With me is my co-host Charlie Liebert of Six-day creation calm if you care to join us.

Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen a gmail .com and we do have a couple of people waiting to have their questions asked. But I will have you pick up where you left off for now a pastor bill.

I think it may have been.

Really quite amazing. There were hundreds of people. I mean, I'd be up to like bug arising I said. Well allegorizing takes away from the lives. We love the world like any emphasis. Finally I said to her.

Let me ask you if you're a Christian wife. She looked at me and she called word for it. It's not a certain really had got another thing that the initial thing that really started to alarm.

Even those who are close to him even even in his personal circle of close friends was when he predicted the return of Christ and the end of the world in 1994. Law he. He predicted it before then but broke the book.

I think I guess it was 1993 it came out and it was.

Yeah, and then.

After That did not come about people amazingly still tenaciously clung to him as a modern-day prophet not in the sense of In the Pentecostal sense or in the Old Testament sense, but they viewed him as the man that had the the truth for the last days and He really spiraled even deeper into heresy by then claiming that the church had become so corrupt that Christ had become an enemy of the church and That if anyone was a member of any congregation that they were enemies of Christ and the their salvation was very questionable.

To put it mildly I think that he when really Challenged on it refrained from knowing with certainty that somebody was damned if they were a member of a church but it was very clear and his rhetoric from the radio that he believed that and That is when Our mutual friend dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries wrote a book on this Challenging.

Mr. Camping and in fact, he Liked the title that I came up with for the book dangerous airwaves Harold camping refuted in Christ Church defended and actually had the honor of doing the artwork for the cover of that book because I was an art major and Dr. White really appreciated the cover that I came up with but And then a very historic moment was when I had Mr. Camping agree to debate.

Dr. White on my radio program iron sharpens iron when we were broadcasting at a WNYG radio there in Babylon, Long Island. The first day of the debate was a debate. But then obviously people told him people from his own network Told him what you've got to do is ignore everything that dr White is saying to you and when it's your turn to speak just pick up where you left off and continue to speak.

So basically it really devolved into Dr. White trying to debate. Mr. Camping and mr. Camping just giving speeches.

Yeah, you know a probably three though. I mean, I was in Uganda and I saw before book. I mean, this is how how Rabid people talking about what happened. He did not believe in the free offer of the god.

Yes, he did.

Yeah, in fact while he was still alive. I had a conversation.

With Gabriel Ortero who told me that Mr. Camping even after telling a dr. Ortero that he believed he was damned he still would call him for The definition or the Explanation of certain Greek terms and things.

He still he still contacted him for advice on Greek and even though he believed he was contacting a lost person, but but he even Not only renounced Calvinism he in many aspects he Really also had a very aberrant view of the Trinity, which I don't know how long he really held to this.

But he really had a more of a modalist understanding when he described the Trinity and even had a concept of potray passionism. There's really strange things and in fact when I when I had him on my radio program He before I even knew this.

I didn't even know ahead of time What his view was. I thought that he would was teaching Still that a belief in Christ was essential for salvation. I Said to him. Well, you believe that the the end of the world is coming in a matter of weeks and I said You know in the book of Revelation the church is comprised of People from out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation and there are missionaries who have informed me that there are still unevangelized tribes In the world that have never heard the gospel.

How can there be people there? Represented in the book of Revelation. From those tribes if we're going to be the world is coming to an end in a very short period of time. And he actually said on my program.

Well, you don't need to believe in Jesus to be saved. The Old Testament saints didn't believe in Jesus and neither do we need you just need to cry out to God. Yeah, and so that was an astonishing development That I had had unraveled on my program.

Yeah.

1994 and Christ did not come. Family radio. The giving to family radio really really began and there's a prior to that point reformed minutes of right now family radio is amen and lest anyone think that.

This is some kind of a Logical consistent fruit of reformed theology they could be. Nothing could be farther from the truth because in spite of many of his Orthodox beliefs that he that he previously held to for decades he was.

Even earlier on when I first became a believer and I first met him. He had an anti-confessional bent to him even though he was a member of confessionally reformed churches. He had a very aberrant view of soluscript Torah Bible alone Where it was ironic where he would say don't read books and commentaries just read the Bible.

And of course, then he wrote his own books.

Yeah, well he even openly said that he had come to reject much of Calvinism.

By the end of his life and by the way, I hope I wasn't misunderstood that soluscript Torah is aberrant I mean it meant his twisting of it. And then and then of course, we cannot leave out his numerology which really heightened a Gnostic Approach to understanding the Bible where only he could really unlock the keys the hidden keys to what the Bible meant.

Right. Well, we're going to another break right now.

And we will get to the couple of you who are waiting to have your questions asked and answered as soon as possible. But if anybody else would like to join them. With your own question. Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away will be right back with pastor Bill Shishko host of a visit to the pastor study right after these messages. God willing Chris Arnzen here, and I can't wait to head down to Atlanta, Georgia, and here's my friend.

Dr. James White to tell you why. Hi.

I'm James White of Alpha and Omega ministries. I hope you join me at the g3 conference hosted by pastor Josh vice and praise mill Baptist Church at the Georgia International Convention Center in Atlanta January 19th through the 21st in celebration of the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation.

I'll be joined by Paul Washer Steve Lawson da Carson Vodie Balcom Conrad and Bayway Phil Johnson Rosaria Butterfield Todd Friel and a host of other speakers who are dedicated to the pillars Of what g3 stands for gospel grace and glory.

For more details go to g3 conference .com. That's g3 conference .com.

Thanks James. Make sure you greet me at the iron sharpens iron exhibit booth while you're there.

Paul wrote to the church at Galatia for am I now seeking the approval of man or of God or am I trying to please? Man, if I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ. Hi, I'm Mark Lukens pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

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I'm pastor Bill Shishko inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m Eastern Time on WL ie radio www .wl ie 540 a .m. Calm we bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you.

And we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with your questions. Our time will be lively useful and I assure you never dull. Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the pastor's study because everyone needs a pastor.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen with the man that you just heard speaking pastor Bill Shishko of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church denomination. And he is now hosting a visit to the pastor's study program. Heard every Saturday as you've just heard on WL ie 540 a .m dot-com and We are talking we have been talking about the rise and fall of family radio.

And now we're going to be talking about the rise of Redeemer broadcasting. And then of course We're going to hear more about Reformation Metro, New York and a visit to the pastor's study and Let me just ask a question from Christopher and Suffolk County, New York who wants to know Pastor Bill Shishko, is there any reason to have confidence that our Brother, mr. Camping is in heaven right now knowing what he has taught before he departed this earth.

No.

That's a very honest answer there.

And.

Of course, I think that judging from your answer Christopher and Suffolk County needs to have something he had in his question corrected. You would not consider him our brother. Mr. Camping.

No, yes, and.

And the way that two people blindly followed him above the scriptures I can still remember. A man who was a disciple of mr. Camping. He used to what in the days when mr Camping used to encourage people to go to church.

He would as most camping ites as they became known. He would bounce from church to church to church only really to condemn what they were doing and saying and this I met this person In the narthex of the church.

This is actually after having met him several times and experiencing his venom. About what we were teaching there at Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island and I remember him saying to me after the service was over.

You know what I don't like about Your pastor and I said, what's that? He said I keep hearing him quoting men like Charles Spurgeon and Jonathan Edwards and Martin Luther and John Calvin and George Whitfield.

Why doesn't he just stick to the Bible and mr Camping. I said, did you hear what you just said? I said what part of the cannon that did mr Camping right, but people people they can really I mean, I think it's healthy to have heroes in the faith.

But when they become idols, this is a very dangerous thing, isn't it? Yeah, did I I'll deal with that whatever you would like to brother. Okay. The let's see. We have Harrison and Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania who wants to know.

Do you agree that? Mr. Camping was way off base and unbiblical when he said that people who were divorced. Who could never if they remarried have normal marital relations with their new spouses?

I'll like to assert a question here. Okay, great. One of the one of the thing we've talked a lot about heresy today. One of the things I wanted to ask you to comment on is how important is it for a church.

In the Evangelical Church in the US lacks this a lot to have some form of confession or Structure in which to define its doctrine.

Yeah, that's the to me that's extremely important that.

When when a person belongs to a church that they ask for what is the what is the structure? What's the structure doctrine this church believes because we could go London 1689 or Westminster or Dord or Heidelberg?

But all of those are important because without a systematic theology, you don't really understand scripture.

Exactly when it's and it's kind of humorous when you read a church bulletin a specific congregation That will have a long list of things that they do or do not do and then one of them will be This church believes in no creed, but the Bible and you're looking you're holding their creed in your hand the bulletin.

We have RJ in White Plains, New York who wants to know what has become of many of these people who Disassociated themselves from the church to follow. Mr. Camping and what has become a family radio? Do any of their affiliates still exist?

Yeah, they sold a number to a country station right. But they actually have sermons by pastors. Yeah, I I'm not obviously going to identify the person but I had a close friend.

Who was my my best friend and my the friend that I spent most time with when I was a brand-new Christian and a young single man and He was one of the most godly people I knew. And he unfortunately got sucked into the heresies of Harold camping and to this day.

He does not belong to a church.

Well, thank you RJ in White Plains, New York. Keep listening to Iron Trip and Zion and spreading the word about it there and I.

Don't believe he is very far from the OPC and in Westchester, correct. So let's talk about now the rise of Redeemer broadcasting and also obviously the Reformation Metro, New York ministry that you are the founder of.

Ruling elder and the pressing time frames. Radio affiliate now wasn't it was always family family the programming and now they have. And then since then and out of churches with other Chris and.

Once again, if anybody would like to find out more about Redeemer broadcasting go to Redeemer broadcasting dot o-r-g Redeemer broadcasting dot o-r-g and a mutual friend of Pastor Bill and Charlie Liebert from Carlisle from a Redeemer Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Carlisle.

Arthur Reminded me that Robertson Janice who is Involved in the debate this Friday. He is taking the Roman Catholic position in the debate on Mary sinless Queen of Heaven or sinner saved by grace Robert St.

Janice was once a host of a program on family radio when he was when he was a professing Protestant.

And by the way Arthur.

Since you are a first time. Well, I wouldn't call you a questioner because you actually made a comment. But since this is the first time that you ever that I know of that I can remember anyway contributed to the iron sharpens iron broadcast with your own thoughts on something.