John Samson Concludes with a Focus on the Cross

Hello and welcome to The Dividing Line on a Thursday afternoon in sunny Phoenix, Arizona. My name is Jon Sampson. It's a thrill to fill in for Dr. James White, who will be back next week from his trip abroad to Ukraine and United Kingdom.

Looking forward to having him back here on the show, and I've been delighted to have this amazing opportunity to come to you here on The Dividing Line and talk about some very important things. Hopefully it's been a blessing.

It's been encouraging to get some of the feedback we've got from the viewing audience, and it's always encouraging when people tell me that it's been a blessing. Today we're going to look at a topic of importance, vital importance, the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I've been thinking about what to do with these Dividing Line broadcasts, and we've been going at a fair pace, but to some slowly through the doctrines of grace, and those who can use their mathematical skills realize that if we're going to do all of them, we'll need to do three this afternoon.

I'm not sure we'll do that. We might only do one, and Rich gave the idea, well, just do what you're doing, and then maybe later on, if James is ever away, we can invite you back, and hey, whatever. We're going to look at the cross today.

We'll see how far we get. We'll see if there's time for a cause. I think you already know the number to call is 877 -753 -3341. We'll see if we get to cause, but let's look at the Word of God today. I want to start, though, with a quote from C .H. Spurgeon, and I put it in the book I wrote called Twelve Whatabouts, Answering Common Objections Concerning God's Sovereignty in Election, and here C .H. Spurgeon comes up with a quote that is just mind-blowing.

I believe he's put scriptures together and formed what I believe to be something of the conversation that would have taken place in eternity past as much as finite minds can grasp the infinite, and he was a tremendous preacher, preacher of preachers, the prince of preachers, as he's called, and when we talk about what the Trinity, Father, Son, and Spirit were able to communicate to each other before time began, we're on very sacred ground.

But here's a transcript from a C .H. Spurgeon sermon where he describes the covenant of redemption and then wonders what it would have been like to have heard this covenant being made. He writes this.

Now, in this covenant of grace, we must first of all observe the high contracting parties between whom it was made. The covenant of grace was made before the foundation of the world between God the Father and God the Son, or to put it in a yet more scriptural light, it was made mutually between the three divine persons of the adorable Trinity.

I cannot tell you it in the glorious celestial tongue in which it was written. I am fain to bring it down to the speech which suiteth to the ear of flesh and to the heart of the mortal. Thus I say, run the covenant in ones like these.

I, the most high Jehovah, do hereby give unto my only begotten and well-beloved Son a people countless beyond the number of stars who shall be by him washed from sin, by him preserved and kept and led, and by him at last presented before my throne without spot or wrinkle or any such thing.

I covenant by oath and swear by myself, because I can swear by no greater, that these whom I now give to Christ shall be forever the objects of my eternal love. Them I will forgive through the merit of the blood.

To these I will give a perfect righteousness. These will I adopt and make my sons and daughters, and these shall reign with me through Christ eternally. Thus run that glorious side of the covenant. The Holy Spirit also, as one of the high contracting parties on this side of the covenant, gave his declaration.

I hereby covenant, saith he, that all whom the Father giveth to the Son I will in due time quicken. I will show them their need of redemption. I will cut off from them all groundless hope and destroy their refuges of lies.

I will bring them to the blood of sprinkling. I will give them faith whereby this blood shall be applied to them. I will work in them every grace and keep their faith alive. I will cleanse them and drive out all depravity from them, and they shall be presented at last spotless and faultless.

This was the one side of the covenant which is at this very day being fulfilled and scrupulously kept. As for the other side of the covenant, this was the part of it engaged and covenanted by Christ. He thus declared and covenanted with his Father.

My Father, on my part I covenant that in the fullness of time I will become man. I will take upon myself the form and nature of the fallen race. I will live in their wretched world, and for my people I will keep the law perfectly.

I will work out a spotless righteousness which shall be acceptable to the demands of thy just and holy law. In due time I will bear the sins of all my people. Thou shalt exact their debts on me. The chastisement of their peace I will endure, and by my stripes they shall be healed.

My Father, I covenant and promise that I will be obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. I will magnify thy law and make it honorable. I will suffer all they ought to have suffered. I will endure the curse of thy law, and all the vials of thy wrath shall be emptied and spent upon my head.

I will then rise again. I will ascend into heaven. I will intercede for them at thy right hand, and I will make myself responsible for every one of them, that not one of those whom thou hast given me shall ever be lost, but I will bring all my sheep, of whom by my blood thou hast constituted me the shepherd.

I will bring every one safe to thee at last.". That's a sermon of C .H. Spurgeon called The Blood of the Everlasting Covenant, delivered September 4th, 1859. In mission, save the elect Jesus loses none of those given to him in eternity past.

As the angel said to Joseph, you shall name him Jesus. You'll call his name Jesus, for he'll save his people from their sins. It's true to say mission, save the elect becomes mission accomplished in Revelation 5 verse 9.

So today we're going to look at a first scripture passage, Isaiah 53, well known to all of us, and I'm assuming that as a believing Christian, Bible-believing Christian, you would agree with me without going into all of the details as to why, just assuming at this point that you would see Isaiah 53 as a prophetic statement about what Christ will do, Isaiah writing about 700 years before the time of Christ.

And we can pick up the passage, although we could start earlier in it, just in verse 4, because here we have the cross spoken of in intricate detail, history written beforehand, which is what prophecy is.

It says, Surely he has borne our griefs, this is Isaiah 53 verse 4, surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows, yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God and afflicted. We thought it was God who was afflicting him, smiting him, and it's true, he was, but not for his sins, for ours.

We're going to see this as the verses unfold. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities, upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed.

All we like sheep have gone astray, we have turned everyone to his own way, and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. The transfer took place where by the sins of the people of God were laid on Christ.

People said, but the word there is all, and it always means everybody. No, no, no, not always, that's not the case. We do not use the word all in a universal sense in our day to day life. When a mother gets in the car and she has seven kids and she's got an SUV and she says, are we all here?

She's not talking about all the seven billion people on the planet. She says, she's talking about all the family members, have I left anyone behind? Is little Johnny in the car? I can't see everybody, is everybody here?

So with the classroom, when a teacher gets up and says, are we all here? He is not talking about everybody on the planet, he's not talking about Norwegian fishermen, he's not talking about Scandinavian drivers, car, taxi drivers, he's talking about those who've enrolled for the class.

And we use the word all in a context. He was wounded for us, he was crushed for our iniquities, the Lord laid on him the iniquity of us all. Who's the us all? Well, I believe the passage tells us if we keep reading.

Verse five, excuse me, verse seven. He was oppressed, he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, like a sheep that before its shearers is silent. So he opened not his mouth.

By oppression and judgment, he was taken away. And as for his generation who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living, this is a prophetic statement of the suffering servant, that he was cut off out of the land of the living.

He would die. This servant would die. It says he was cut off out of the land of the living, stricken for the transgression of my people. Again, I believe the us all of verse six is the my people of verse eight.

Goes on, and they made his grave with the wicked and with a rich man in his death. Again, confirming we're talking about the death of this suffering servant, although he had done no violence and there was no deceit in his mouth, yet it was the will of the Lord to crush him.

He has put him to grief. When his soul makes an offering for sin, he shall see his offspring. He shall prolong his days. What's that talking about? That's talking about rising again, living again. He's going to live again.

He's going to prolong his days. And the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. Verse 11, out of the anguish of his soul, he shall see and be satisfied. That's key. We're going to see from this passage that this suffering servant who dies is satisfied by what he accomplishes in his death.

By his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous. Who is the us all? It's the many he makes righteous. He accounts righteous. And he shall bear their iniquities.

Whose iniquities? Those he makes righteous. Therefore I'll divide him a portion with the many. He shall divide the spoil with the strong. Because he poured out his soul to death, he was numbered with the transgressors.

Yet he bore the sin of many and makes intercession for the transgressors. Again we see this vital component of the high priestly work in the Old Testament fulfilled in the New. The high priest makes intercession for the people of God and brings a sacrifice for them.

In the New Testament, Jesus does that as our great high priest. We have the high priestly prayer recorded in John 17 where he makes intercession for those the Father has given him. He makes it clear, I'm not praying for the world, I'm praying for those you have given me and he makes intercession for them and then dies for them the very next day.

So the us all of Isaiah 53 is explained as we continue reading the text and oftentimes that is the case. But I know in my own journey of coming to understand these doctrines of grace, I have to inform you if you didn't know already, I wasn't always embracing them.

I was at one point an Arminian, wouldn't have described myself that way, but looking back that's exactly what I was. But it's worse than that. I was a charismatic, but it's worse than that. I was a word of faith and it's worse than that.

It's actually worse than that Rich. I actually was a host on TBN locally. It doesn't get worse than that. But God has delivered me and I tell you what, I am so thrilled to have learned what I've learned about the work of Christ.

And here's what I've come to see. We have a powerful Savior who accomplishes everything he sets out to do. And the question we're looking at when we come to this L in the tulip, t-u-l-i-p, L standing for limited atonement, which is an unfortunate phrase because it gives the mistaken idea that we are devaluing the atonement.

We want to limit it in some sense. No, let me say this. Universalism is the idea that everybody is saved. There are some people who believe that's what the Bible teaches, but it doesn't take long to read in the gospels to hear Jesus flatly denying that.

There is a hell and we learn more about hell from the lips of Jesus than anyone else in scripture. And in Matthew 25, there are sheep and there are goats and the final outcome for the goats is not the same as that of the sheep.

There is a lake of fire and some people will go there. So universalism has forever been condemned through the history of the church because biblically it's so easy to expose it as error. It is more than error.

It's heresy. The false prophet and the beast and Judas and many, many others are going to be there in the lake of fire. There's going to be people who are not saved by the death of Christ. So if we're not universalist, we are what we would call particularists.

These are people who would say, no, no, no, not everybody will be saved, but some will be lost. Some will be condemned. And we would class them in the broad heading of particularists. And amongst particularists, which I am one of which I'm one, there are those who embrace a universal atonement and those like me who would say, no, it was limited in one sense.

Christ came for a particular people and he accomplished salvation for them. But I want to just say this very, very quickly. If we're not universalist, both the Arminian position and the reform position limit the atonement.

In the Arminian position, there is a limit in its power. In the reformed position, there's a limit in its extent. And so we're asking the question, what was in the mind of God when he ordained the cross of Christ?

And then we ask, what did Jesus actually accomplish on the cross and who did he accomplish it for? Most Christians would say, well, everybody, he died for everybody. But I want to just look at that through the scriptures and hopefully we'll come to some biblical conclusions that might be a little bit surprising.

I remember hearing one gentleman talk about those who call themselves four point Calvinists and it's usually almost always, if not always the case that it's this L they have a problem with. And he called them Christmas Calvinists because for them, it's no L, no L, no L.

You got it. So he called them Christmas Calvinists. So we're going to look at that issue. Jesus, what did he do at the cross? Well, specifically, we don't need to take the time because it's so obvious.

There are scriptures that say he laid down his life for the sheep. We then ask the question, did he lay down his life for the sheep in the same way he did for the goats? That's an open ended question, but he definitely laid his life down for the sheep.

He laid down his life for his friends, the scriptures say. Ephesians 5 tells us he gave himself for the church. Acts chapter 20 says he purchased the church by his own blood. So we've got specific statements that tell us he died for his people.

Remember, we've already quoted it. Matthew 121, the angel saying to Joseph, call him Jesus. You shall call his name Jesus for he shall save his people from their sins. And so the difference between the two positions amongst particularists is the idea of a universal atonement or a specific particular type of redemption whereby he dies for a specific group and he accomplishes their salvation.

If it was not the case, I don't know how Jesus could say it is finished. Three words in English, one word in the original Greek, tetelestai. It's a marketplace term that describes the payment, the full payment for something.

It's a marketplace term. Perhaps someone in the ancient world wanted to prove that they'd bought certain items and so the items would be listed and if they wanted a receipt, they would say list the items and then the shop owner would say, all right, you've handed over the money.

I'm writing the word tetelestai over this. You've paid for these items. That's exactly what Jesus cried out on the cross. John chapter 19 verse 30. It is finished. If it wasn't finished and only started at the cross, he says he could have just said, well, I've done my part.

Now it's up to humanity. But he said it's finished. He accomplished something specific. What did he accomplish? Revelation five nine tells us he redeemed men for God or people for God out of every tribe, tongue, people and nation.

He did it. He accomplished it. How many are in that number? It's a number so vast that no man can number it. According to Revelation seven, let me just turn to these passages because it's important we see them in our Bible because these are prophetic statements written as if they will take place because God knows they exactly will be fulfilled.

We'll all stand before the throne of God, the redeemed, and we'll be singing this before the lamb. And it's a prophetic statement just as Isaiah 53 was fulfilled. So Revelation chapter five will be fulfilled.

Verse eight tells us, and when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the 24 elders fell down before the lamb, each holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

And they sang a new song saying, worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals. For you were slain, talking of the lamb of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, and by your blood you ransom people for God from or out of Greek word, ek, out of every tribe and language and people and nation.

And you've made them a kingdom and priest to our God, and they shall reign on the earth. I want to just turn to Revelation seven now, verse nine, and after this I looked and behold a great multitude that no one could number from, same exact thought here, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the lamb, clothed in white robes with palm branches in their hands and crying out with a loud voice, salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne and to the lamb.

So it's a number that is vast and that gives great encouragement to all of us who go out into all the world preaching the gospel. Election keeps no one out of heaven. It's the exact opposite. The only people who will be there are those who are elect and Christ died for those people specifically.

There was an infinite value in the cross, but I remember in my own trek through these doctrines, it was a nine month study whereby I had to learn and unlearn a lot of things. I had to unlearn my traditions, which said that, well, Jesus died for everyone, then it's up to us what we do with that sacrifice.

People then say, but look, there are those scriptures that you mentioned, John, but I know of others that would seem to put a dampener, at least, in fact, would flatly deny what you're saying. And one of the ones I struggled with for some time was 1 John 2, I wonder if we can just turn there.

Perhaps you've got access to a Bible either online or you've got a paper form of the Bible in front of you. The Apostle John writing and saying in verse two, he is the propitiation for our sins and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

It's very easy to read that with Gentile eyes and think, well, there it is. Doesn't matter what you're telling me. 1 John 2, verse two, flatly denies what you're saying. I'm switching off. And for many people, that's it.

That's all they want to know. But it's important to look at what these words would have meant to its original audience. We could say, well, the whole world means everybody in the world. What else could whole world mean?

Well, look at John's writing. John also wrote the book of Revelation. And we've just seen passages where he speaks of what Christ accomplished in his death. By his death, he didn't redeem everybody or make salvation merely possible for everybody.

He actually redeemed the people out of all of the mass of humanity, out of every tongue, tribe, people, nation. And when we look at John's writings, one of the things I did in my book was list all the places where John speaks of the word world.

And we find there's at least 10 different meanings to the word world. Well, I just believe the word world always means everybody in the world. Will you try trekking through the gospel of John with that?

And you'll find it just does not work at all. He was in the world. The world was made through him. What is all that? Well, the word world sometimes means everybody, but it's very rare that that's the case.

Sometimes it means cosmos. Sometimes it means the elect. Sometimes it means everybody in the world, but it's very, very rare. The original audience, I believe, would have understood John writing as a Jew saying he didn't just die for us, the Jews, but for the whole world.

He died for sinners everywhere. And if we go to certain passages like John chapter 11, John explains his use and his terms very, very clearly. He believed what I would say I believe, and that is that Christ did something for God's people.

If you look with me in John chapter 11, it speaks of Caiaphas, who was high priest in that year of Christ's death. And Caiaphas, speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit at this point, says,.

You know nothing at all, nor do you understand that it's better for you that one should die for the people, not that the whole nation should perish. He did not say this of his own accord, but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation.

This is, again, John writing, but he's telling us what Caiaphas said, prophesying that Jesus would die for the nation and not for the nation only. Who's the nation here? The Jews. And not for the nation only, but also to gather into one the children of God who are scattered abroad.

Isn't that interesting? I believe that is John's understanding of what the death of Christ would do. Jesus would not just die for Jews, but for the children of God scattered abroad. Very, very important.

I'm just looking at another verse in John as we're just looking down at the passage in front of us. And verse 19 of the next chapter says,. So the Pharisees said to one another,. You see that you're gaining nothing.

Look, the world has gone after him. Is that referring to everybody on the planet? Was every day everybody in modern day China rushing to Jerusalem? No, no, no, it's it's you've got to understand the word world cosmos in its context.

And John uses the word world at least 10 different ways. So why base your doctrine, your teaching on something that has to be interpreted by way of context? I wouldn't do it. Let's base our thinking on clear passages.

And it's clear. He died for his sheep. He gave himself for the church. Did he give himself for the church in a different way than he gave himself for those who will never be part of his church? Well, well, the scripture doesn't address that.

But it certainly looks that way when husbands are to love their wives as Christ loved the church. You wouldn't say this husband really loves his wife because look at the way he loves everybody else's wife, too.

No, the whole point is, just as Christ gives himself and gave himself for the church, husbands love your wives in the exact same way, cherish that wife of yours, nurture her just as Christ loved the church and gave himself for her.

He didn't just give himself for everybody else, but for her. Now, I want to kind of do something that I picked up from a gentleman called Dan Phillips, and he calls this the mayhem, the mayhem approach.

And that is talk to someone who believes in a general, universal atonement and say, you know what? I can see how 1 John chapter 2, verse 2 is a real problem for you. They think that we need to be on the defensive here and we need to go to John and show how John uses the word world through the scriptures.

And we've done that. I've taken a little bit of time to do that. We could spend more time on it, but we've done a little of that. And he said, well, just use the mayhem approach. And what that is, is say, you know, the idea that the word world here means every human being, whoever was, whoever is, and ever will be, that's your position, right?

You believe that Jesus died for the whole world and they would not. And he says, so you believe that every human being will go to heaven, right? Well, no, no, no, I didn't think you did. But that means you have a real problem with 1 John 2, verse 2, because the scripture says Jesus is not Jesus would really like to be, or Jesus wishes he could be, or even Jesus stands ready to be, but Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.

And then ask this question, what is propitiation? It's a wonderful word. I remember preaching one time in a sermon and said, if you ever want to get me excited, doesn't matter what I'm going through that day, just email me the word propitiation.

It excites my soul. And someone actually did that about three in the afternoon one day. And I said, thank you. You just made my day. It makes my day. When you've got biblical understanding of some of these key words, it should thrill the soul because propitiation is a thrilling word.

It means a sacrifice that removes wrath. It's not just words, a word that's used in the Bible. There are primitive religions and you can sadly find places even in our own day. In South America, you've heard, I'm sure, stories of people around a village that's close to a mountain, maybe a volcano, and they have not had particularly good sunshine through the preceding months.

And so they want a good crop. And so they think the gods are angry with them. And so to propitiate the gods, to remove the anger of the gods, they take a virgin daughter of one of the fathers in the little village and they thrust, they hurl that beautiful daughter into the volcano, hoping to placate the wrath of the gods.

How sad, how misguided, how deceived they are. And yet that is the idea of removing wrath by means of a sacrifice. And the Bible here says that Jesus is the removal of wrath by means of a sacrifice. He propitiated the father's wrath.

He absorbed God's wrath by means of his sacrifice. That's a thrilling thing. And so back to this particular question of particular redemption. It's a problem for the Arminian if you consider this cross of Christ to be a propitiation.

If it was a real propitiation, that's a problem for the Arminian. If it means a propitiation for everyone who's ever lived or ever will live. Because propitiation by very definition means a sacrifice that turns away the wrath of God.

So Arminian friend, if you are right about the whole world being everybody who has ever lived, the Hitlers, the Stalins, the Judases, everybody, then John is saying that the Christ, Jesus, he turned away the wrath of God for the sins of every human being ever born.

You, me, Judas, the beast, the false prophet, everyone. So then we have a question. How come anyone is ever under the wrath of God? How can John 3 .36 be true? That those who do not believe are already under the wrath of God.

If Jesus has absorbed the wrath of God, how are people under the wrath of God and how will people be under the wrath of God in hell if there was a real propitiation? And oftentimes people say, well, it was a potential propitiation, but it's activated by our faith.

So someone not believing that sin of unbelief. Let me qualify that. Let me go back a little bit. Is it a sin to not believe? Yes, I believe it is. I believe scripturally you can say to not believe in God and not believe in his message concerning his son is calling God a liar.

That's a sin. Did Jesus die for that sin? Well, if you say no, there's a problem. And if you say yes, there's a problem for the Arminian. Because if Jesus died for the sin of unbelief, why are people under the wrath of God for something that he has absorbed wrath for?

It really is a problem. How can anyone be in hell? Why are they there? For what are they being punished if Jesus has absorbed the wrath of God for every person's sin? Well, it's their unbelief. Is unbelief a sin?

Yes. So you have a real problem in the Arminian view. Either unbelief is not a sin, in which case you're calling God a liar or else everyone's going to heaven, in which case you're calling God a liar.

Or Christ isn't really, not really, really, really, really, a propitiation for all the sins of everyone without exception. Or maybe, just maybe, we've got to look at that word world and see how John uses it throughout his writings.

I think that's the way forward. But do a bit of study, not assume that whole world means everybody on the planet, but perhaps, just perhaps, it means what John described in John 11, 51, 52, the children of God scattered abroad throughout the world.

Christ died for his people, for his sheep, for his friends, for the church, and he secured eternal life for them in doing so. I want to look at another passage that, again, was a stumbling block in my own walk through these doctrines, Hebrews chapter 2, because, again, it's like so many we could mention.

I know Dr. James White has helped me enormously in this. I just recommend if you've never read The Potter's Freedom, which is a response to Norman Geisler's Chosen but Free, please pick it up. It's a fascinating trek through the scriptures on this issue.

Hebrews chapter 2 is a fascinating passage, but, again, when you take the word all and not look at the context, you can misapply the scripture, just as it would be wrong to apply the understanding of, are we all here, the mother with the seven children, and assume she means everybody on the planet, you've misunderstood her original intent.

What is the original intent of scripture? I believe you find that out by doing some study, seeing the verses before, the verses after, seeing the context in which that word is used, looking up linguistic studies, looking at the words, all of that is so important, rather than assuming that they're writing to us with a 21st century mindset and understanding of words.

Let me just back up for a moment and explain why study is so important. One of the things I appreciate about this ministry is there is a wealth of study that goes on before any words ever hit the page or are broadcast on the air.

You can check up on Dr. James White, and I've done for many years, and find out his research, his scholarship stands up to scrutiny. Can we imagine a situation where you sent an email to your friend, you've just come back perhaps from a Sunday lunch, and you're writing to a friend, and you write these words in the 21st century, after church, I went to McDonald's with my family and we had a happy meal.

That email was found in cyberspace, say 300 years from now, and perish the thought, I'm sure, they have no idea what McDonald's is. They've never heard of McDonald's because somewhere, can you believe that?

It was taken over by Taco Bell or something like that. They've never heard of McDonald's, and so they've got no idea what you're talking about, and so they make some assumptions. And they say, you know, McDonald's, that sounds like a Scottish family.

Let me do some research. And they go and find out that McDonald's is, in fact, a Scottish name. Hmm. And the email that you wrote refers to you having a happy meal. So you had a wonderful time with this family after church, called the McDonald's, and all the family enjoyed the meal.

It was just wonderful. You know, they've got an interpretation of your words, but it's not the original intent, is it? Because you and I know in the 21st century, McDonald's refers to a chain restaurant, and a happy meal is one of the things that they provide there for the kids.

Usually there's a little toy with it, a smaller meal than the adults get. And so you and I have an understanding in the 21st century. If we're going to understand scripture, we've got to do some research and find out what the original intent of the author was.

You don't just pick up a book and say, well, I feel it means this. I feel McDonald's refers to a Scottish family. Well, you can feel that, but you'll be completely wrong. There may be a hundred applications of a scripture, but only one true, right, correct interpretation.

And so it's the job of the preacher, and it's the job of all of us as Christians to do research.

Anything you want to jump in and say, Rich? Well, I was just going to say, just not to miss your point here, but your analogy is a little bit off. People would not know about McDonald's because it would probably be taken over by Amazon .com, which is taking over everything.

Yes, yes, you're absolutely right there. Yes. I have to change my words there. So true. And so when we're looking at Hebrews 2, let's look at the context and see what words are used here, because we're going to come across not the word all this time, but the word everyone.

And surely everyone means everyone. No, no, it doesn't. Is everyone in the car? Again, we're not talking about all the seven plus billion people on the planet. So talking of Jesus, that he's better than the angels, his salvation is a great salvation.

It talks of Christ as being the one in charge of everything. He is reigning and everything will be put in subjection to him. In verse eight, it says, putting everything in subjection under his Christ feet.

Now, in putting everything in subjection to him, he left nothing outside his control. At present, we do not yet see everything in subjection to him. As we look out on planet Earth, we do not yet see everything under the kingship of Jesus.

But if we could see with spiritualized, Jesus is reigning now. But verse nine says, but we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death.