Alistair Begg Defends His Advice: A Pastoral Reply

Justin Peters

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00:05

Welcome to the program ladies and gentlemen. My name is Justin Peters. I hope that this finds you and your family doing well today.

00:11

I want to thank you so much for joining me for this podcast. Many of you saw the video that I did a few days ago on the controversy regarding Alistair Begg's advice that a

00:23

Christian could attend a homosexual slash trans wedding and that has caused quite a bit of controversy as you know.

00:33

I did a video on that if you have not seen it I encourage you to please do watch that. But since that video was posted a few days ago

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Alistair has preached a sermon in which he addressed the controversy and unfortunately he not only doubled but in fact tripled down on his position.

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He says that he has nothing to repent of. He remains entrenched in this and he preached this sermon this past Sunday night.

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I certainly have my thoughts but I wanted to get the input from a pastor friend of mine named

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Dan Phillips. I've interviewed him on this channel before. He's become a good friend of mine over the past several years.

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Really good guy and he's been a pastor for many many years and so I wanted to get a his pastoral perspective on Alistair Begg's sermon and so that is following.

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Here we go. Well Dan, thank you so much for joining me brother. It's an honor to have you back on the program.

01:35

It's a pleasure. I'm glad to be with you again Justin. Yes, well I wish it was under happier circumstances that would bring us together again on my

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YouTube channel. But Dan, I wanted to ask you about the sermon that Alistair Begg did as of this recording this past Sunday night whatever that was

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January 29th or something 28th or 29th and he was responding to all of the controversy about the advice that he gave to this grandmother who has a granddaughter who apparently is trans.

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So I'm assuming a girl who's pretending to be a man and she's marrying someone.

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I would assume another woman but I don't know exactly how that works. So it gets confusing.

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It gave her the advice to go to the wedding, a Christian grandmother, go to the wedding and even give a gift.

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As long as she understands that you disagree with it and you don't agree with this marriage, you don't agree with her lifestyle, you can still go show her love, go to the wedding and even give a gift.

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And so that caused quite a bit of controversy and Alistair Begg responded to it in earnest this past Sunday night in a sermon.

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So you and I both watched that sermon and I wanted to get your thoughts as a pastor.

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Just tell us a little bit what were your some of your takeaways from that sermon Sunday night?

03:14

Well the first thing I want to say in framing this is a lot of your subjects the people who you talk about in your ministry, they're conduits of sewage in their ministry and their teaching.

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There's just a flow of garbage and worse and maybe occasionally here and there a pearl.

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Alistair Begg is just the opposite of that. He's just the opposite of that. He's had decades of faithful ministry and on a wide variety of topics.

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I mean the only thing I think I've heard him say that makes me cringe was his amillennialism. But I mean you've seen the clip from the sermon or maybe the whole sermon where he talks about the man on the middle cross that I could come.

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It's one of my favorite three minutes of preaching. I can't watch that without being moved to tears. I mean

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I've said that if I had preached that I would feel and only that I would feel like I'd had a good preaching ministry because that is golden and that's not his only.

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I think he's a good guy and the first thing I thought about this and then having reviewed it and thought about it and listened to the sermon twice, the thing

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I still think most about it is that he illustrates the peril a man is in when he becomes a celebrity pastor.

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We often think of the sheep side of it and the influence side of it but the man himself,

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I mean in the course of this sermon he basically says I don't know what the fuss is about and he responds to nothing that the concerned loving brothers and sisters have said about it.

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Impugns to them motives that I mean if they had that motives I'd be on his side. If I had that motive

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I'd repent but as far as I know none of them has the motives that he impugns to them and he is apparently surrounded by people who shield him from hearing these things and that's a dangerous dangerous place to be in and so I think when he said first came to light from the interview about his book

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Christian Manifesto and he just said on that interview the advice they'd given his grandmother and a number of people saw that and went what and I was one of those.

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In fact we're going through the book of Romans in our men's fellowship class and I played that for the guys and discussed it with him and I basically said he's a really good guy.

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That is terrible advice. Everybody has a bad day and I said I'm not gonna cancel him.

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I'm not gonna throw him out or tell you not to listen to him because he gave this terrible advice but it's terrible advice.

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Well and then he comes up with this sermon and I did a little poll in my

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Twitter account just to see asking people which was more grievous his initial advice to the grandmother or his defense of that advice and about 88 % said it was the defense and that's exactly true.

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Now in his case what he needed to do was he needed to see the kind of quality of the people who were bringing this to his attention and he needed to at least say you know

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I still think I gave the right advice but the sort of people who are bringing concerns to me and the nature of their concerns

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I just want to make sure and I'm gonna take some time to think about this and humble myself and make sure

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I'm not missing something and I don't want to just fire from the hip defensively and spray bullets around at my enemies and defend my position.

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I want to think it through because I know all the Proverbs that say that a wise man loves reproof, a wise man listens to reproof.

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Faithful are the wounds of a friend and so forth so I don't want to be that guy who like Proverbs 12 one says hates reproof and is stupid.

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I don't want to be that guy. I just get to take some time and I'll get back to you. Now if he'd said that I would have totally believed him and I would have said good you do that.

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It wouldn't have been like Brian McLaren saying well we need a what do you say five -year moratorium to figure out homosexuality.

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We know where Alistair Begg stands on homosexuality. He's taught and taught clearly on it that I've seen so I wish he had done that but instead what he seems to have done as is just I don't know see the edges of this or been told of the edges of it and respond with defensiveness and just absolutely tongue -deaf.

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I mean I saw he'd done a response and I okay I hope this is good and I saw the title and just as soon as I saw the title

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I thought this is this is not gonna go in the right direction is it and and just as I listened the worse it got but and he says just to stay with my opening thought he says well he says

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I don't know what the fuss is about and he says you know and basically I'm British but he says he's been here 40 years but he still says well

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I don't understand you know what everybody's so upset about and so which is saying that he doesn't know the people he's serving.

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He served them for 40 years but he hasn't and he still doesn't think of himself as one of them.

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He thinks of himself as still being a product of he names Lloyd -Jones and Stott and you know would

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Lloyd -Jones tell someone to go to a homosexual wedding? But regardless you know he's saying that and I'm sure he's not hearing it but he's saying

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I'm not really with the people I'm serving. I don't really know the people I'm serving and that is the whole thing about being a celebrity pastor.

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You serve people you don't even know. If one of them's missing, you don't know he's missing. If one of them falls in the sin, you don't know that unless somebody tells somebody who tells somebody who tells somebody who tells you and so in this case he just he sounds like a good man who has allowed himself to be put in a bubble, isolated.

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He says his family and friends are shielding him from everything except praise and thanks and commendation of what he said but that is hazardous for the person and so it produced a sermon that was just I mean it was well it was sad.

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I mean he the way he characterizes his critics in the criticism and I just want to say that if it were true that there were a person coming into a church

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I served who was a repentant homosexual or a repentant trans person who's coming to Christ and was wanting to walk the way of Christ and if the people in the church

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I served were to repel that person or recoil from that person or treat them like they were diseased or something,

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I'd come down on them like a rain of rocks, like a rain of boulders and that is not grace and that's not compassion.

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There's nobody who walks through the doors of this church or any church that isn't a redeemed sinner and this side of glory that's all we're ever gonna be.

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We're gonna be redeemed sinners paid for by the blood of Christ alone and so yeah compassion for the repentant but he gets into the parable of the prodigal son and applies that to this situation and it just this granddaughter is not running back pleading for mercy.

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She's not running back asking for grace and forgiveness. She's celebrating her sin and I don't know, do you want me to pause?

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I don't want to just dominate but given that there is no such thing as a marriage of two men or a marriage of two women, so take that away.

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Then what is this occasion that the grandmother is being asked to go to? It is just a celebration of perversion and it's just a celebration of two people promising each other that they will never repent of the sin that will send them to hell.

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How can a Christian go to that with a nice little gift in your lap and with the best will in the world communicate anything other than approval of this abomination?

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I mean if she was being installed as the high priestess of the Church of Satan would you go to that to keep your relationship alive and I know you know there's been a hundred analogies brought up that everybody'd say no you wouldn't go to that.

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Right. This isn't different from that. No it's not and you know you carry this logic out to its conclusion then you might also wonder okay so after these two people get quote -unquote married and then they decide to adopt a child.

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Do some child trafficking. Yeah I mean do you celebrate the child trafficking?

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Yeah. Do you give a gift in honor of that? I mean yeah. Right. Poor child. I know it's horrible.

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I mean that you don't you wouldn't honor a child being raised in the house of sexual deviancy.

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I mean it's not but now this brings us to one of the sad ironies of his defense.

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He says that you know all us slope -headed knuckle -dragging redneck

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Americans you know we just don't understand nuance and we can't put together two plus two and equal four.

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We just you know these concepts are above us and then he paints a situation where there are only two options.

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Right. The only the only option is totally to dishonor and alienate this woman with hostility this granddaughter with hostility or communicate approval of what she's doing and that's okay because you've said you don't approve but then go ahead and show your approval by being there and those are your only two options.

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Right. That's not nuance. That is not nuance. That's binary thinking. Yes. There is for instance the other option of saying what she says she said to her granddaughter that this is a sin and that this is not a valid thing you're doing and to go on to say but I want you to know that I love you and I care for you and I would do anything for your good.

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I would do that now. I would do it the next day. I would do it anytime. Anything that would that would point you to the

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Lord Jesus Christ would help you towards him or that would show love to you. I will do that but I can't celebrate the thing that's going to send you to hell if you don't repent of it.

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Yeah. Oh look that's a third option but that's right isn't that nuanced but there's no room for that in his in his yeah mock -up of the situation.

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Right. I know. Dan let me ask you this. What about his use of Luke 15?

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You touched on it just a minute ago. You know he started by talking about the the one lost sheep and then the woman with the ten coins but most of the time he spent on the prodigal.

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Talk to us a little bit about that about the use of those texts and his interpretation application.

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Was that valid? Oh no it wasn't it wasn't valid at all and it was very very sad and it was almost you like you kind of wish he'd said okay talk about wonderful Luke 15 for a while and what a wonderful picture it paints of the

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God who loves sinners and loves repentance sinners and goes searching for the lost and then if he just said now

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I want to talk about something totally unrelated to that and then talked about his advice I would have felt a whole lot better but but the situation he's talking about there's no prodigal son running home saying

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I've sinned against heaven and against you and I'm not worthy to be called he she's not coming to her grandmother saying

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I've sinned against heaven and against you and I'm not worthy to be called your granddaughter just you know if you could even treat me like a neighborhood friend

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I'd appreciate that and whereupon I'm sure the grandmother would would herself run to greet her and show her grace and mercy but this is not that situation this is this is more like the prodigal son saying hey you know what the pigs and I are throwing a little soiree and what

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I would love if you'd come bring some corn husks and some slop and get down in the grime and join us together if you just wallow around in the mud and and I'm gonna ask some of my favorite prostitutes and and engage their businesses and and you know we just love if you come join them but that of course is not what the parable is about you bring little bring little red bow ties to put around the pigs or something to make them look pretty right and but this is not that and that's not the point at which the father runs to the son the father runs to the son when he's coming and in repentance and yeah he doesn't make him come all this friends the distance he comes and meets him and then you talk about the the older brother

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I mean yes sure talk about that and and if you want to liken that to people who when a homosexual or any other kind of sinner repents does not embrace that person is not rejoicing for that person yeah

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I'm right there with you that's a good application of that but there's nobody in this scenario who is advocating lack of love lack of care lack of concern for the person but now here's here's the thing the the like there

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Matthew Vines I think was one who said he was really happy with yeah that was through beg stands and it just was what's a great thing okay dear friends

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I want to interrupt here and tell you who Matthew Vines is Matthew Vines is a homosexual pastor he is author of God and the gay

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Christian and he has been kind of the tip of the spear in in trying to make a case he fails miserably but he tries to make a case that Orthodox Christianity and by that I mean did you adhere to the basic tenets of historical

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Christianity the authority of Scripture the deity and exclusivity of Christ those things it that Orthodox Christianity and homosexuality are compatible that you can be a gay

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Christian Matthew Vines put this tweet up a few years ago back into 2017 he says

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I guess it was Facebook anyway he said this is a picture of Winston a faithful supporter of the

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Reformation project his husband and their new baby so here you see two men with a baby that is a tragic picture that baby is going to grow up in a home of sexual deviancy and so Matthew Vines is affirming this praising this this is what he is about and yet here we see right after Alistair Begg preached his sermon this past this past Sunday as of this recording

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Matthew Vines comes out in praise of Alistair Begg says Alistair Begg a non -affirming pastor recently encouraged a grandmother to attend her grandson same -sex wedding as a way to show him

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Christ's love I'm grateful that despite significant backlash Begg has chosen to stand by his advice this week dear friends this is exhibit a on why

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Alistair Beggs advice was not just bad it was sinful and dangerous he's being praised by a homosexual pastor who thinks it's a wonderful thing for a baby a child to be raised in a homosexual home a home of sexual deviancy and be robbed of a mother and a father exhibit a on why this was so so bad and the whole thing so so here's the whole thing about the the the kingdom of man project we're never gonna get away with sin being wise or good so the best we can do is to try to make it look like it is and so for the grandmother to give a testimony and live it that this is a this is a sin and abomination it breaks my heart you're doing this and there's nothing

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I can celebrate in that though I love you dearly well that doesn't that doesn't make the sin look pretty so she's got to go there and make the sin look pretty by her presence

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I see grandma has her thoughts but really at bottom line she accepts me for who I am meaning as a homosexual she accepts my homosexuality she accepts my marriage she accepts my you know the whole nine and that a

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Christian it's not a loving thing for a Christian to do to side with a sinner against God that's right that's not love that's not for the person right love and truth are not at odds with one another that's right that's right that's right that's a false dichotomy and you don't expect you don't expect a gospel sound person like Alistair Beck to make that dichotomy

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I know I know that you expect someone who's over the over the rails to say right yeah I've told people in talking with you and some of my other friends about this this is a comment

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I would expect from someone who's woke someone who's like in the social justice wing of of quote -unquote

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Christianity you know someone who's who's imbibed in those poisoned waters unfortunately it was just a real shock to hear it come from Alistair let me ask you this so I have no doubt

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Alistair said that his motivation and giving this advice to the grand grandmother was to save the relationship with her granddaughter

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I have no reason at all to doubt that I'm I'm a hundred percent confident that that was his motivation but yeah

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I was listening to him I couldn't help but be struck Dan by Matthew 10

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I mean Jesus words in Matthew 10 I did not bring peace but a sword you had to set father against son mother against daughter daughter -in -law against mother -in -law and I thought you know sometimes granddaughters against grandmothers

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I mean this standing this this is not some in other words this is not something that should surprise us as Christians when when we stand on the truth that it might cost us familial relationships right right and for a lot of us it has done exactly that well part of the trouble was and I thought this each time as I heard him say

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I was just trying I just wanted to try to help save the relationship I just wanted to help her not lose the relationship and and I thought to myself brother that is not your job that that is not your priority your priority is to serve

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God and to help somebody walk in the ways of God and so the question is not what's going to save this relationship the question is what's going to honor my relationship with God and my priorities what does

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God say about this is God going to be there rejoicing at this abomination and this deliberate mockery of what he created his precious creation and that the picture of his son's union with the church no

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I don't I don't think and I don't think Alistair Begg would think that either I'm not to speak for him but but and that also gets into another thing about celebrity pastors and megachurch pastors he says he doesn't know this woman so why is he giving her counsel yeah yeah

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I have people ask me advice and many people will tell you that pretty regularly what they hear from me is ask your pastor ask your pastor if they'll ask me some doctrinal issues or whatnot okay but if they want counsel for what they should do with their life

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I say ask your pastor and that's when if it comes up well I don't listen to I don't have a local church I just listen to you and that's where you say that's wrong that's sin you need to repent of that and you need to get yourself in a local church exactly and then

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I'm not your pastor you're not attending the church you're not the member of the church I serve I'm not your pastor so you need that that's right get a church get a pastor and seek his counsel on this yeah oh

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I wish I had a nickel for every email like that that I've answered people email me a lot asking me about my opinion on this matter you know and it's like well where do you go to church where's your pastor right that's what you need to go to your elders that's right there's no one's tasked with keeping keeping watch over your soul so that's right but we we are okay with the megachurch model of somebody who gets up and talks but has no relationship with the people he's serving and then and then of course there's a celebrity pastor who has that relationship with people all around the land and you know we have a live stream for people in our church who are unable physically unable to come to church or just for anybody who wants to watch it sometime in addition to their own church but we often make the point that this is not your church and as we're doing communion don't be drinking coke and Ritz crackers at home and you know you need to be in a church to be celebrating communion and you need to be part of a church and if you want to financially support us we'll praise the

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Lord but make sure you support your church first yeah and often ministries like that don't make that as clear as they should and they forget what it is to be a pastor so here's a woman he has no relationship with and he's giving your counsel and so now that brings us to another thing if I may you know it seems to obviously it shocks him that so many people are upset and a thing he said a couple of times is

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I was just trying to help a grandmother I might give other advice to somebody else in another time right this is the advice

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I gave her and I just trying to help a grandmother and everybody blows up well yes friend you tried to help a grandmother in the hearing of tens of thousands of people yeah across the globe who follow your ministry this is why you have all the nice conference invitations why you have all the nice book deals why you have all of the things that go with being a celebrity pastor part of that is that what you say gets amplified on pretty much a literally global scale so you can't you know it wasn't just you and granny sitting over a table with a cracker barrel having a chat about about this little family thing this was something that you chose to share with your tens of thousands of listeners and so when you get some biblical pushback it's not pleasant it's not fun nobody likes it but a wise man listens to counsel and he listens to reproof and he counts those who love him enough to tell him what he doesn't want to hear as being his choice friends yeah that's right yeah

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I was struck by that as well he said in the podcast that this was just advice he was giving to one grandmother but but you're telling it publicly and so he as you said it goes it goes out all around the world and he's got an enormous platform and with that comes enormous responsibility he does and then you add to the fact that he's saying well

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I might give somebody else different advice so this is situation ethics exactly where you took the words out of my mouth this is situational ethics right right right so there there aren't transcendent absolutes at stake here and he did say as much as that what was the way that he phrased it he said something like oh you got to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling which he was citing in terms of you got to make your own decision which

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I don't think that's what that verse means but but I mean you make your what is the your mileage may vary like the like the phrase is but there aren't absolutes now see this is where if you would even look at some

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Twitter thread somebody could explain my Twitter thread yours and and here's a grievous thing

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I've seen people who aren't as doctrinally sound as he who at least get this right mm -hmm you know

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I could name a couple of names of people who I probably agree with Alistair Begg a whole lot more than them but they at least see this one clearly and they see the principles involved in this and he doesn't even get near those in his response about why

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I gave this advice so it's situation ethics it's just sort of and and and and so so does that mean to that that he just I guess now he wouldn't be a witness for the defense for poor

27:10

Jack Phillips yeah who doesn't who won't bake cakes to celebrate homosexual you know game around yes and for what's that woman's name who wouldn't do the the flowers or the photography it's a

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I don't remember her name well everybody watching this is shouting at it yeah yeah probably but yeah but I mean all these people who have themselves paid dearly for the fact that they will not honor this abominable situation and I guess he's over there saying no big deal just make the cake yeah no big deal just show that you love them don't break off the relationship

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I guess I should I mean now he hasn't said this I'm not meaning to put words in his mouth maybe he'd say no but I then

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I don't know how you would say well okay the granny should go with the gift but but Jack Phillips shouldn't make the cake or this lady shouldn't go with the yeah there's been several cases like that oh yeah yeah several ones we've heard of but there were people who've gotten fired they've lost everything they've lost everything for their stand but now they hear from Alistair you know someone who is in in our theological circles, no big deal.

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Yes I know and there I want to say too that's another danger of being up on a pedestal is that you're not down in the trenches with the people who are actually bleeding and getting bruised but no

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I'll say that they are at a different level and and I mean you know everything that happens to them happens very publicly and thank

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God you know and things like that happened to me 50 ,000 people don't immediately immediately know it or when

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I when I slip or say something wrongly or unwisely 50 ,000 people don't immediately hear it and send me emails that's a whole different level but still yes you do feel like often they're not, they don't care about these things because they don't experience them at the same level yeah they're sheltered yeah you're sheltered that's right in that way now like I say in other ways they're exposed to pressures that we can only tremble at the thought of but that kind of visibility yeah and I also have to say that insinuating that probably a lot of his critics are closeted homosexuals that was probably not helpful also that that struck me too

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I just happened to remember is at the 20 -minute mark because it was like such a it branded itself on your mind yeah it did and you know

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I know in fact I see if I have the okay well anyway he basically said be very careful of the the the pastor the teacher that you're listening to because if he harps on something habitually as and he says especially immorality sexual immorality that is a thin smoke wonder what he's talking about Pharisees often complain loudly of sins they would be quite interested in committing themselves be very very careful when you hear your pastor or your teacher whoever it is lambasting a certain area of life especially in the realm of morality time and time again you will discover that that loud protestation actually sadly tragically proved to be a very thin smokescreen for what was actually going on in the hearts of these people and I wonder what he's talking about and I wonder who he's talking about Kathy what

30:56

Kathy now we're listening to that together this is my wife Kathy we're listening out that together at the same time and she turned to me she said so are you a closet tranny?

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Good question yeah fair question apparently. What did you tell her? I did not last time

31:14

I checked no and just for the record yeah yeah that's I'm stunned at that I was stunned at that Dan I mean how how how ungracious how unkind yeah it sounds desperate that one sounds desperate desperate indeed and related to that Dan we've kind of already covered in a sense in a general sense but specifically he pulled out the often used and misused

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Pharisee card I get so tired of the Pharisee card so can you talk to us a little bit about that wasn't was that a valid analogy that people like you people like me others in fact

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I would have to say almost I haven't seen anybody in our theological circles actually defending the content of what

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Alistair Begg said I don't think I've seen anybody offering a defense for the content of what he said so the critics are we just a bunch of Pharisees?

32:21

Probably not in this case maybe in other cases but no the the parallel there is is just not good and I'm glad you brought that up because I want to maybe broaden that just a little bit because what you often hear here and you see it in Twitter and this is a case of like tell me that you haven't even looked into this at all without telling me you haven't looked into this at all the sort of person who says and you could sing it with me

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Jesus dined with sinners, Jesus dined with tax collectors, that's absolutely true but Jesus did not go to strip shows so that he could have a relationship with the strippers he didn't go to there's no record certainly and no

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I mean he didn't go to dens of iniquity to talk to people who are practicing that yeah

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I'm very very grateful that Jesus dined with sinners because I'm one of them but show me in any of these cases where these sinners continued in their sin the only intersection we see between Jesus and people in their sin is them repenting of it is them showing brokenness and showing that they are wanting to follow him and that Zacchaeus will pay back all the people that he's ripped off and and so forth and so on he doesn't go to people who to a

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Zacchaeus who's ripping people off and say I just want you know I love you and approve of you and and that you know

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I'm here for you anytime you want I got your back and and the prostitutes who are looking up John's and saying well

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I love you and accept you just this is this is ridiculous it's an abominable thought yes he does he does get with repentant homosexuals and homo and sinners of all sorts which great news for you and me because that's just what we are on our best day this side of war we are repentant sinners were redeemed sinners so the

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Pharisees were they didn't think that he should have anything to do with those people period that he shouldn't talk to a woman because that was just their sin but there's no big here's the difference breaking news there's nothing sinful about being a woman right so Jesus talking to a woman is not the same thing as going to a celebration of a non marriage mix of two sexually perverted people promising never to repent and to go to hell together that's right these are not you know one of these things is not like the other so you can't say yes you disapproving of approving gay mirage is exactly like Pharisees saying

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Jesus shouldn't talk to women yeah it's exactly like that except in every way it's nothing like that and also with people who are in the process of repenting of any other sin

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Jesus was with them there is no sign that he was making them and no indication that he was making them feel good about their sin

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I mean he didn't even necessarily have to bring something up think of Peter where Jesus tells him to launch off to end to catch some fish at the beginning of his ministry and Peter does that and what does he do he falls on his knees and says depart from me

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O Lord for I'm a sinful man he doesn't say yes I just want to thank you for making me feel better about my sin and I just you know how wonderful it is to go forth knowing that no matter what

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I do out of hatred of God you got my back and you're there approving of me and and that is the situation here it is not that difficult to grasp or to express the situation is this is a ceremony it can't be a marriage because there's no such thing as homosexual marriage so all there is is a celebration of two people's commitment to engage in perverse sex and never repent and there's nothing there for a

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Christian to celebrate amen are there two people there for a Christian to love absolutely but not to approve of their sin that that is not loving and to sit there to sit there be a part of that and sit in silence

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I don't know if you saw the gift in your lap with a gift in your lap and I don't care what the gift is in a sermon he kind of hinted like in the sermon he said it was a

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Bible he didn't sign yeah but he didn't say that initially so that that's that's unclear at best well

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I hope it was a MacArthur study Bible because I'm sorry

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I shouldn't laugh about it I shouldn't I really should I apologize no it's okay I mean sometimes you just it's it's so well and since you mentioned the point about Pharisees something that's occurred to me about this is that that verse in John 7 where the

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Pharisees say this crowd who does not know the law is accursed I mean this is the alm haaretz they just dismiss that the rabble now there's the

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Pharisee spirit that looks down on the commoner and I think it might be valid to see a pharisaic spirit and the sort of spirit that would say well you know all these

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Americans that are unnuanced and can't put together 2 plus 2 equals 4 I don't need to listen to them because they don't they don't know the law they're not in the slot that I'm in that is also a pharisaical spirit to watch out for right and another point to make about attending a wedding is that the idea that you can be there without approving

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I think about Romans 132 where Paul has just given this litany of sins and he says that those who do such things know the righteous requirement of God that those who do such things are worthy of death but he says they not only do them but they give hearty approval to those who do them now unless somebody say well

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I'm just going to this wedding I'm not giving hearty approval that verb there that's translated to give hearty approval is used one other time in the book of Acts and it's used about the well the future

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Apostle Paul but then Saul who is standing by holding the coats of those who are lynching murdering stoning

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Stephen and he doesn't throw a rock himself but the text says he gave hearty approval to what they were doing so he's standing there he's a witness he's not stopping them and the text says he gave hearty approval and then he later says

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Paul says that he was part of the killing of Christians so though he didn't throw a rock or to use it in the situation we're talking about he didn't pronounce the wedding vows or applaud when they when they were pronounced husband and husband but still by your presence there you're giving your presence and your silence and your complicity you're giving hearty approval and that is not obviously pleasing to God and it doesn't exempt you so I didn't actually do anything but you were a passive witness and your your presence said it amen amen amen thank you

39:10

Dan that's a great point you know this is not high -level discernment this is not this is just no it's not

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Christian doctrine with basic Christian application this this shouldn't even be a country this shouldn't be a hard decision

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I guess is what I'm trying to say no it shouldn't this is not theological rocket science this is not you know

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Turreton's olympic theology this is this is not that and and when he says that well say

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I just don't understand you by the way this goes back to my initial point about celebrity pastors and so forth so he's been here 40 years and he doesn't understand

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Americans he doesn't consider himself one of us and you know mainly he mainly basically basically

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I'm basically British you know and so Britain okay so what Britain are we talking about are we talking about Britain the

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Puritans who would make fundamentalists here look like liberals are we talking about the the

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British who deny the authorship of any of the books of the Bible by their authors and say creation doesn't matter in Genesis is a myth and salvation is whatever you say it is and God is whoever you say she is

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I mean which Britain are we talking about right because neither one of those backgrounds is really to the credit of this specific issue which is and if it's not an issue in England well then more pity them

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I think it's probably just right there there you know they're a half a mile down the road from where we are and we'll get there too yeah

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I know it's it's just it's so confusing it so in this one sermon we've got situational ethics and apparently geographical ethics as well so well yes in a touch it sure seems to me and I don't like to think this but a touch of what do

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I want to say cultural superiority I mean did what was I alone in thinking basically saying you

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Americans have no sense of nuance you can't put two plus two together and make four and I'm from a culture that is just you know so above that I can't and and this is something that I again

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I thought about celebrity culture over and over again I don't know if you've heard me say this

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I've said this very often that their stance is just towards people like you and me their stance is just I'm sorry

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I know you're saying something but I can't hear you from way down there I know you've got your little concerns you're trying to get my attention on but you know

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I'm just so far up here I'm not putting this on Alistair Begg but I've thought it many times over the years and I mean to his credit at least he responds a great many of these people do these things and people like you and me will and people who are you know better placed than we better educated than we with greater standing than we perhaps voice objections when they don't even don't even respond it's like I'm sorry was there a sound there

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I didn't hear it so at least at least he's responding I'll give him that but he's responding and he's saying but you know

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I mean your concerns your little concerns with your I'm sorry you can't even add two plus two would it equal four and so yeah

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I don't know what to say to you except you know it was very very condescending very condescending

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I think he I think he had to respond because this is this has been such I mean I saw last night even

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Fox News had a story about it about Alistair Begg. It's not the way

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I want to see Alistair Begg on Fox News. No. I'd love to see his name on Fox News but not for this. I know,

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I know. You tell me he's gonna be in one of these shows I just say oh that's terrific I know he'll speak of Christ but now this is how he gets their attention now see this is why

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I want to say I mean I know look Justin we haven't talked about this but there are people who you know they see this and they go got him.

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You know there are people who are just waiting for somebody who's Orthodox to fall and they they will write that they will write him off I mean that they were ready to write him off with that first response yeah well that's it you know

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I'm done I'm done with him because he told that that that information in the grammy and then they might say well sure

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I'll give you time to repent and think this over and time's up you know and that's basically it so this had the feeling of I just I wish that he had

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I wish he had taken time I wish he had had the you know you pick the adjective but but had the quality of spirit to say because obviously he was hurt and obviously and I can understand this obviously he's going you guys are coming at me like I'm a heretic and look

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I taught this about homosexuality I taught this I had lesbians walk out on me because I affirmed marriage at this one meeting and all that's true and I don't want to take one dot of those things away from him but I wish that he could have said you know it just to be criticized in this way

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I can tell it offends me it hurts my feelings it makes it very difficult for me to think clearly about it

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I just want to defend myself and that's not the best frame of mind to be in to think something like this through so you know with your patience and your grace

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I want to consult some people who I know will tell me the truth I want to calm myself down I will listen and see if maybe

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I've missed something I'm not seeing anything from the right angle and I for my part I would have said you do that brother that is wisdom that is a great idea don't don't rush to the pulpit to defend yourself and it feel it feels like that's exactly what he did he rushed to the pulpit to defend himself and makes me feel terrible because I mean he's a brother

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I've prayed for and prayed that he finished well I have I still will the day's not over yet I mean

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I love him like he's yeah yeah and neither one of us yeah to be clear and I know this is your heart neither one of us is saying he's not a brother this is just this was a really bad unforced error and really disappointing to see even after all the controversy for him to to double well triple down yes but is he even hearing it because his friends and his family are shielding him has he even seen

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I mean you know I know not everybody's a Doug Wilson fan but he wrote an article in it that would be helpful or Robert I'm not sure he says name

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Robert Gagnon I don't know if it's Gagnon or Gagnon but I mean just many people and even in the course of just a few tweets any one of them would have put him to the issue okay oh so this is the issue okay well

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I need to think about that but has he even heard them or has he been has he been sheltered from them and this brings us back to my initial point which is that yes celebrity celebrity pastorhood is not just not great for the church it's not great for the celebrity pastor it's a real peril and if you're gonna be in the position like that you got to make sure that you have close friends who absolutely will call you out in no uncertain terms if you take a foolish step that they will love you enough and you listen to them yes listen yeah there's what

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I often say if people like Donald Trump just to get into a totally different thing I'll often say something like apparently he has no grown -up friends we will listen to who will tell him not to do this or not to do that and that's yeah gotta have you got to have wise friends that you listen to wisdom in a multitude of counselors well there you go there you go and he who walks with wise men will be wise

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Proverbs 13 20 and iron shop sharpens iron and and David says let the righteous smite me and it's a kindness

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I mean yeah yeah yeah absolutely wisdom there there is and Dan speaking of wisdom as we kind of close out here

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I want to make people aware of your two books the world tilting gospel and God's wisdom in Proverbs and those are both excellent books

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I have read both of them and good resources I'll put links down below in the description there for folks yes but Dan thank you so much and Dan you're the pastor of Copperfield Bible Church in Houston Texas down in Texas yes because there are those there's a

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Houston Mississippi but you're in Houston you're not to be confused Houston Texas yeah well

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Dan I've known you for a number of years I really appreciate you your friendship I think you've probably heard me say before I have a

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I have a tremendous I'm an evangelist I travel and I preach and teach but I have a tremendous love and appreciation and respect for all of our faithful shepherds out there and you're one of them thank you brother thank you glory to God amen amen all right

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Dan well it's a joy to have you on Dan and dear ones I hope this has been helpful for you thank you so much for watching until our next time together may the grace of our