Planting in Utah: The Call

Apologia Utah

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Thanks, guys. So we're here in West Point, Utah. It's just north, about 30 minutes north, would you say, of Salt Lake City.

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And we are here. We are here. It is Good Friday. We just had some really good family worship, right?

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Beautiful, dude, beautiful. We went over in John 18, 19, the trial and crucifixion of Jesus Christ.

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Yep. It was glorious. It was glorious. It was. I mean, the beautiful thing to be in Utah at this moment is the very fact that as we are here as Christians celebrating

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Good Friday, there's also how many people live here? Do you like three million people? So the whole state, it's like three point two million people,

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I think, in Salt Lake City in that vicinity is more like one point two million or so.

01:06

OK, so I believe I could be wrong. So let's say then there's nine hundred and seventy five thousand professing active

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LDS members. Right. So they're also celebrating Good Friday. Right. It is actually conference weekend, the third and the fourth.

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Actually, do they do stuff on Friday, too? I believe so. Yeah. Yeah. Friday night, they have like kind of a men's thing sometimes or a women's thing.

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They alternate. But Friday, Saturday, and then they finalize it with their worship service on Sunday.

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And so, you know, they've that's what's going on here right now. Isn't it odd, though, that as we're celebrating as Christians, Good Friday, so are they like what's what's the big deal?

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What does it mean? What's the difference? Right. Like, why why does it matter? I think what matters most about it is the divinity of Christ.

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I think that changes everything. When you talk about the crucifixion, the atonement, the resurrection.

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It all comes down to the divinity of Christ, because ultimately the

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LDS people have a Jesus who was created in the pre -existence.

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He was a spirit being created between heavenly father and heavenly mother and then came in to, you know, his humanity in the incarnation with Mary, of course, they do preach that.

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Right. They do teach that. But we would say in that pre -existence, he has a beginning.

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He has a beginning that he has lost his eternality with LDS doctrine.

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Now, I know a lot of Latter -day Saints would say that, well,

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Jesus was appointed a special kind of savior character. He's like a savior hero.

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And in other universes of other gods, I guess there's a savior character in that world, too.

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But here's the thing. They talk about, well, he's eternal. We're not saying he's not eternal.

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We all existed in the form of intelligences in matter.

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So they try to get around the fact that, well, we see he has a beginning. And I think, number one,

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I just don't know how that even works. I'm not sure how.

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Well, if we're to be honest, it sounds silly. I imagine we're like floating brains somewhere waiting to become spirit born.

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It makes me think of like almost like a universal consciousness. Yeah. And I think it's really wise to point out two things.

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So first, you're saying in terms of what we're celebrating on Good Friday, the first fundamental distinction that we have between the

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Latter -day Saints is the fact that we believe as Christians that Jesus Christ is eternally God. Here it is.

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He was the same yesterday, today and forever. But for the LDS, they believe that in terms of eternality, that Jesus existed eternally as an intelligence.

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He wasn't the same. Which means he changed. He changed. So it is a contradiction of scripture.

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And so that's one very important aspect on why there's a fundamental difference. So so what does it mean then?

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So you said even the second aspect of the intelligences thing is that it's not in scripture.

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Amen. So that's that's the biggest thing. So you we can say we see he has a beginning in the preexistence.

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He was brought into being there. And they say, no, wait, he formed previously as as an intelligence.

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Well, that's not in scripture. That's that's the biggest issue is the divinity of Christ when it comes to Good Friday.

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We have Resurrection Sunday. The fact of the matter is, as the

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God man, the hypostatic union, Christ is in his humanity, our perfect federal head.

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He is our perfect representative so that he can live out the law perfectly.

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He can perform it perfectly, live sinlessly and represent us in that fashion.

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And then as God, the God man, he then can endure the wrath of the father that we deserve.

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So as not someone who was once an intelligence, as someone who had a beginning in LDS doctrine, but as the eternal

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God, the one true and living God, Jesus Christ can take the eternal wrath of the father that we deserve.

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We deserve eternal punishment. We've offended an eternal God and therefore we deserve eternal punishment.

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So an eternal representative needs to take away our sin. He needs to, you know, propitiate for our sins, atone for our sins.

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Jesus Christ, who was created in the preexistence or even was some strange intelligence, some spirit form,

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I don't know what that is. He cannot atone for sin. It's not an efficacious atonement.

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It lacks power. It could never do it. And it's fake.

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It's a fraud. It's a fraud. So even if there was some sort of alternate Jesus in LDS doctrine who did this, you know, theologically, philosophically,

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I think it's impossible for a temporal being maybe infinite, goes into infinity, you know, into eternity, but doesn't come from eternity into eternity.

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Yeah. He could not take away sins. So that's like why we're here. Right. In a sense.

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So there's, let's say, 975 ,000 people, just use that number again, just for fun, that are going and worshiping a

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Christ that never existed. Right. Right. Jesus says, unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins.

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And that's beckoning on the eternal name of God, right? That he is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

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And it's a, we need to know who the real Jesus is. You have to put your faith in something real.

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You can't put your faith in the fictional Christ of Joseph Smith. So the sad part is, is that there's so many people who do.

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Yeah. And they're in need of a savior. They don't know him. And not only that, they think that they share the same ontology as God, the same being is

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God, that God, the father was once a man who was obedient to the gospel ordinances and principles, and then became a

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God and goes through that eternal progression. Right. And had children, had spiritual offspring who now inhabit an earth, go through mortal probation.

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So they then can be obedient to the gospel ordinances and principles so that they can become gods one day with their own planet.

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Where's Jesus in that mix? Right. You just kind of got to throw him in there to make your theology, uh, formulated around a name.

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That's what I've always thought. It really emphasized Jesus Christ these days. Jesus Christ, the church of Jesus Christ, churchofjesuschrist .org,

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uh, even removing the latter day saints. It's all about Jesus Christ. But to me, uh, in my opinion, from what

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I've read, what I understand, it feels like Jesus is an afterthought in Mormonism.

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You know, again, like he's just assigned this, this, this figure, this savior character in the story.

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And, uh, it's just so much more glorious than that. It's just so much more beautiful than that.

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It's like, we're going to create our theology, all of our doctrine, but we're going to make him wear a Jesus suit just so he can have some sorts of, uh, what's the word

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I'm looking for? Just so it has some form of looking correct. It's a wolf in sheep's clothing.

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Right. Just so it gives it some sort of credibility. Yeah. Put the name Jesus in there. We know there's hundreds of other cults that do that.

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Well, give us second Corinthians 11, four. Yeah. There are people who will come. They will preach a different Jesus, a different gospel who have accepted a different spirit.

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Paul gives us that warning in second Corinthians 11, Jesus 11, verse four. And the, the, the thing to think about as well, when talking about even

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Galatians, as we say, Paul says that there is no such thing as another gospel. Right. But he's giving an analogy.

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It's not a contradiction. It's 11, verse four, but there are people who preach another gospel that wasn't real, just like how there's a different Jesus preached.

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That's not the real Jesus. Right. So that that's why we're here. We want the people of Salt Lake city to come to know and have faith in the true and living

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God that will take away their sins so they can have a relationship and peace with God. Because there's people here in all honesty and all truth that do not have peace with God, regardless of the credibility that it shows by putting

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Jesus Christ in the name. It does not give you peace with God. Right. And I mean, to increase your kind of hypothetical number, two thirds of all

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Utahns are members of the LDS church, the

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Mormon church. Not all of them practicing, of course, are active, but two thirds, 66%.

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So with 3 .2 million people in the state of Utah, that's 2 million, 2 .5

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million, 2 million people. You know, who follow this false gospel.

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And at the end of the day, like when we do our LDS ward outreach, when we go to the local ward meeting houses and they're kind of frustrated, you know, you can see it in their eyes.

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They're like, we do. We worship the same Jesus. We worship the same Jesus. They just don't get it.

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And of course, the spirit of God has to open their eyes and make them believe, quicken their souls, regenerate them, make them born again.

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But I feel for them there. And that is why we're here. We bring tidings of good joy of the true

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Jesus Christ, of the real Jesus Christ. And you can have peace with God. You can have reconciliation.

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There's now no longer any condemnation for those who are in Christ. You can have that. And so that's why we're here.

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Oh, I want to piggyback off that. I think you can talk really well about this, brother. So this is this is the real aspect.

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We're here because we want people to know the true and living God. And that comes with ramifications, right?

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When people start coming to know who the true and living God is, when the true gospel is preached and the spirits in their hearts are quickened, right?

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And God is regenerating people. It changes a place. So what do we aim to see happen here within 20, 30 years, like in terms of the church body, in terms of Salt Lake City?

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What's what's the point? What's the purpose? What's the beautiful plan that we want to see? Well, we want to see all the high places torn down.

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What are the high places, Wade? All the temples in all the local cities, downtown, every surrounding village and city.

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We want to see the Mormon temples torn down with with with an idol at the top, the golden statue of Moroni, the fake angel.

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We want this is just to qualify this, too. We want them to tear it down hand in hand with us in rejoicing and proclamation of the true and living

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God. With with tears in their eyes and a sledgehammer in one hand, tear down the altars, tear down the altars ourselves.

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You know, that that's the glorious thing. That's what God called the kings in the

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Old Testament to do in Israel and Judah. You know, but it's it's it's there's work ahead.

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You know what's difficult? And, you know, there's so many faithful brothers and sisters here already in Utah.

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There's many, many who we love and who have poured into us and want to take us by the hand.

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They've been here. They've done the work. We we pay them honor. Amen. We we we bless them.

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We thank them for for letting us be a part of this with them.

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But, you know, the fact is, the church has let, you know, many of these things take place in our nation, including these high places to be brought up.

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Yep. J .K. Van Balen is the one who's credited with a quote that says the cults are the unpaid debts of the church.

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Yeah. Right. And so John 17 is extremely important, extremely powerful, extremely potent in the fact that Jesus Christ, the night before his death, when he's giving one of the longest discourses to his disciples that we have recorded in Scripture, he prays for the church to be one like him and the father or one.

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So one beautiful thing we see out here with the churches that we have met is that's that's their like heart cry.

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Yeah. Right. Imagine imagine being surrounded by pagans for so long. Right. And going out and preaching the gospel, they want to gather together.

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Right. And we want to join together with them to see this city turn to Christ. Yeah. And it's not even and when

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I say that, I'm not talking about like brothers and sisters here who are already here who have like somehow failed.

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That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the church at large. Right. Has has has failed these

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LDS people. Yep. And we have possibly failed the existing brothers and sisters and sisters in Christ here.

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Yep. Have we been there? You know, we've heard of megachurches who will drop a couple hundred thousand to get started here.

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And if they don't reach whatever number in membership by year one or two, they're out.

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They're going back to the state they came from. Yeah. So that that's a tragedy. That's that's a failing.

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And so we're not saying we're the answer. We're not saying we're the rescue mission.

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We just want to come and help be part of the fight, be faithful. And, you know, so I think the hard thing is, is, you know, you can you can like drive in a sketchy part of Phoenix.

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Right. You can go to I don't think of any town or city in your mind where you're like, that's that's run down.

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I'm thinking of think think of some rundown places right now. So think about that.

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And sometimes we look at that physical aspect, that external aspect, aspect of that city and go, man, this place needs the gospel.

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Right. We think that we think that often. Whereas you can drive around Utah and it's beautiful and the architecture is well done and the cities are clean.

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You can go to a city park and the city park bathrooms are clean.

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Like it's a funny thing that I think of. It's like, you know, most public restrooms are nasty where I've been to.

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But these are pretty nice. These are these are these are pretty decent. You know, there is a veneer here.

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There is a veneer. You know, Jesus called the Pharisees whitewashed tombs, you know, just thinking clean on the outside, dirty, full of full of extortion.

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And filthiness on the inside. And so there is possibly a propensity, maybe even as a

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Christian, I could imagine me doing this myself is to look around here or have grown up here and go, you know, this place looks pretty good.

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You know, they're all pretty Republican, which doesn't mean Christian, by the way. They're all pretty conservative, which, again, doesn't necessarily mean you're a

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Christian. And, you know, and everything's pretty nice and people are kind and, you know, that's a common benevolence and grace of God.

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You know what we've seen here. And and really it's the fruit of people trying to work for their salvation.

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They're trying to earn it. And so it's all clean. Let me keep washing. Let me keep making it look good.

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But really, it's full of dead men's bones and it needs to be it needs to rise again. It needs to be born again.

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Brother, I was just thinking the same thing about the whitewashed tombs. And I think that's so important because, you know, a veneer and that credibility you try to give your religion by outward external experience is very, very tiring.

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Yeah. Right. Very tiring. Like, what do we know what the fruits of the spirit are in the Bible to know that you have the spirit of the living

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God, gentleness, patience, kindness, self -control? Yeah. Among others. Compassionate.

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Humility, meekness, kindness. These people, and this is the truth, they do not have the spirit of God.

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They can't if they believe in the wrong Christ. Right. There's another spirit at work here.

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It's a spirit that makes an imitation version of Christ, an imitation version of the fruits of the spirit.

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And what does that do in the long run? You drive down the I -15 here, you'll see about 22 billboards that say there's an opedemic here.

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Opedemic. Yeah. Right. There's about I've saw about nine or ten billboards for erectile dysfunction.

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I've never even seen that in Phoenix. I've never seen that. There's a reason, though. Right. Yeah. Kids, marriage, celestial kingdom, eternal family.

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Right. Right. Think about the depression. Suicide's not the answer. Suicide prevention. These are all real billboards showing the the actual spiritual condition of these people calling out.

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And it's shouting at their faces every day while they're driving on the highway. It's always the outside. So all the plastic surgery billboards, all the yeah, the weird

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E .D. I mean, billboards, all these things, all they're all external. But but what people don't know, except for maybe some

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Christians here, is behind closed doors. There's turmoil. There's divorce.

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There's adulteries, pornography, addictions, opioid addictions, alcohol addictions that that that they just keep from their bishop.

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They keep from other members holding it all inside. They're in bondage.

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It's not real liberty. It's not real freedom. There's no casting off those sins.

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There's no putting the old self to death and putting on the new that is being renewed after the knowledge of the image of its creator.

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That aspect is gone. Right. Instead, you're trying to build it all up yourself. You got to button up your shirt.

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You got to put on your makeup. You got to go get you got to play the surgeries. You got to play the part.

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And that is so sad. You know, like we want people to feel the peace that there is with God.

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And yeah, and I'm not going to sit here and go, well, Christians are perfect. No, no, no, no, no, no. That's not the that's not the point.

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The point, though, is what the spirit of God does is sanctify. It makes us hate our sins and want to be more like Jesus.

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Why? To give God glory. Right. And worship him. And guess what? The spirit makes us that way.

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It makes us to love his law. Right. Yeah. However, here's another fundamental distinction.

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I'm just going to bring this up. You can probably draw this back into the core conversation. But I want to I just want to bring this up. The spirit of God, God causes you to love his law.

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And we know there's two tests of a prophet in Scripture, Deuteronomy 13 and 18. However, when you have conversations with LDS people, when you go to the wards, the sad thing that you can see is there's people who claim

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Christ, but they seem to hate his law. Right. They seem to hate his life. And they don't want to apply their. They've never read

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Psalm 119. Yeah. They don't want to apply God's law to their prophet. Yeah. Right. Or they or.

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No, that's exactly right. Their prophets are above the standard of God, which is scary.

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So in a way, because they don't appeal to the word of God to test their prophets, that makes their profit profits higher than the word of God, higher than God himself.

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And that is blasphemy. It is. That is blasphemy. They wouldn't admit they wouldn't admit that.

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You know what I mean? But they'd say it in a different way. But essentially, when they are the authority over what

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God has already declared, what he's already written. I mean, we're seeing stuff, you know, about LGBT stuff within the, you know,

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BYU. Yeah. BYU, even in Mesa, where we live, you know, there's that advocates for LGBT with the

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Mesa temple. So, I mean, it's changing. They're going with the world. And when the prophet says that's the way it is, that's different than apostate

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Christians claiming something that's opposite to the standard of the Bible, because when the prophet says it is, he's the standard.

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He's the spokesperson of God for the LDS church. We're not saying there aren't apostate

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Christians or false Christians in America who affirm LGBT stuff and things like that.

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Of course, we can say that we can say they're false because it's opposite to what it's opposite to what scripture says.

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But when, you know, maybe it's President Nelson in the next couple of years, maybe it's going to be someone else.

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I don't know. But when they declare, you know, the affirmation of homosexuality and transgenderism and all that stuff, it's coming from him.

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It's going top down. Yep. And you can't question it. And I'm wondering what that's going to look like for the church at large.

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There's already, which they deny, there's many denominations of Mormonism.

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Oh, yeah. There's many. There's RLDS, FLDS and tons of little small sects of splinter groups everywhere.

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Yeah. Splinter groups everywhere. So how will this change the church? We I mean, if BYU is any sort of, you know, temperature check for the

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Mormon culture. That's the next generation. Yeah, that's the next generation. Next generation of leadership. You know,

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I'm not sure what's going to happen. That's why we're here, right? Like we're here because we feel the

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Lord has led our families to plant a church. Yeah. Right. And we just want to be faithful to that call because there's people out here that are dying.

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Yeah. Thinking they know who Jesus is. But Jesus says many will come in my name saying,

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Lord, Lord, look at the works I've done in your name. And Jesus himself says, depart from me. I never knew you, you workers of iniquity.

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We don't want that as Christians. We want to be faithful to the call of preaching the gospel.

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We don't know who God's sheep are. Right. That's not our job. Our job is to go preach the gospel so their hearts can be quickened and the

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Holy Spirit works at work and then replaces their heart of stone with the heart of flesh. And then we can restore and rebuild.

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Right. Restore, rebuild, love, point to Christ. Right. Talk more about planting that church, brother.

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So the people know. Sure. Sure. What can we say? We're going to be just faithful to the word of God. We're going to be faithful to the

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Lord. We're going to be faithful to the gospel, proclaim the gospel in our church to believers.

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And then we're going to take that very same gospel and that saving message and give it to people outside of the church.

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We're going to preach the word in the church and preach the word outside of the church. And that's the formula.

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I mean, there's there's nothing special about it. No gimmicks here. We're not going to offer a free mountain bike if you come to our first service.

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I want my own mountain bike. I don't even have one. Me either. No, I do have one.

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Man, I need one. So what's your role? What are you? So I am currently going to be the first elder.

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Yeah. Praise God, brother. Say it again. It's hard for me to say that even. Yeah. You know, truly,

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God uses, you know, an ordinary means people with not very extraordinary talents.

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It's his truth. It's just like he's a thing, brother. What a grace. He's a thing. He's given you privileged. He's given you the skills to reach his word accurately.

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Right. It's his word. Yeah. And I'm excited, dude. You're going to be my pastor.

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And I'm excited about that. Yeah. You know what I mean? And we're still under the leadership of Pastor Jeff, Pastor Zach, Pastor James, Pastor Zach Conover and even

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Pastor Luke. They're already elders at Apology Church. We're not going out here willy nilly. These are people that are breathing into you, breathing into me.

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I'm going to be the deacon. I'm going to be helping you be able to focus to prayer, into preaching and to be a minister of mercy to the people of Apology Church.

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So I'm excited, brother. I am beyond excited. This is this is my life's mission.

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This is the culmination of everything that has happened in my life. When Christ saved me, bringing me to this very point when we're soon going to be planting

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Apology Church, Utah, it's unreal. I guess it's still surreal to me.

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Right. I don't like that word. I can't I can't put it in my mind yet. I'm scared all in the right ways,

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I hope. You know, I want to fear God. I don't want to fear people. I don't want to I don't want to be a man pleaser.

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I just want to please our Lord. And that's my hope. And to see the kingdom grow here.

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Yes, really. To see the kingdom grow here. Every generation of LDS successively down to even millennials and Gen Z.

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I think even Gen Z right now, only a third. Of the members of the

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LDS church are actually active. One third, 30 percent. Yeah, they're going way. So they're just they're just falling out of it.

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And, you know, from generation down. And so we want to be here for them.

27:49

Yeah. Because a lot of them are are leaving. They're leaving for secularism, secular humanism, atheism.

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They've been hurt. New Age, whatever it may be. They you know, when they find out the truth about their false prophet, about this false gospel, it's damaging.

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It's so damaging. And we want to be there for them. We're going to we're going to be doing, you know, our boundless ministry, trying to help people deprogram from what they've been taught.

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And then reprogram and reprogram with the correct with the correct gospel. That almost sounds wrong, like indoctrination, just giving them the word of God.

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We want to do our redeem rebel stuff. We want to help addicts, whether it be with pornography, drugs, alcohol, whatever it may be, counsel people, help people offer the hope in Christ that only he can give.

28:48

Amen. So, yeah, it's. It's nothing special, and yet it's it's a church to us.

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It's a Christian church. And so it's God's bride. And so it's special. Amen.

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You know, again, we talked about the veneer, the veneer of religiosity, the whitewashed nature of it all.

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But this is honestly a really dark place. It's really palpable. It's almost tangible when, you know,

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I remember our first time coming here years ago. Stuck the life out of me after. Yeah, it's a dark place.

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You can feel it, especially when you go around the Salt Lake City Temple. You see all the occultic images and everything.

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The foundation of this. So, yeah, it's these people need the gospel.

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These people need help. And with it being a dark place, there's going to be a lot of attacks.

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So we could definitely use your prayers also all along the way. And we'll keep you guys updated with later on when we get here and with the fight and how you can be praying for us.

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But we're going to need that tremendously so that we can we can keep going and doing what we're doing, because we know we're going to face opposition.

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Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. From the enemy, from from the culture, from the LDS cabal.

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Right. No, no joke, though. They they they like own everything. I mean, they're involved in everything here.

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It's it's definitely a different culture. Anything that I've ever been in. So it's kind of encouraging, like the the church out here and who the church body is, isn't like it almost like a

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Gideon's army type of thing. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like up against what seems to be the magnitude in the multitudes.

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But really, if you could take a glimpse into what's going on in the background of what God is doing, you wouldn't be afraid at all.

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Yeah, because God is conquering, right? There's darkness in the world. The darkness will never overcome the light.

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It's the exact opposite. The light has already come and stepped on the serpent's head. And you can never, ever blot out the light.

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All Jesus is doing is preparing his sheep here. And we want to go and call them to go.

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Here's the good shepherd. Here's the good shepherd. Jesus Christ. Amen. They are either going to bow to the feet of Jesus or be under his feet as a footstool.

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Right. So our prayer is that they would bow to the knee of Christ in repentance and faith.

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So, yeah, dang. Well, thank you guys for listening to this. And like Wade said, please pray for us and consider partnering with us.

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Yeah. As we go on this journey and like we will keep you guys updated. We want to create content. We want to get this out there, not only so we're preaching the gospel here, but that it can go out on the

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Internet so people can watch these videos and come to Christ as well. Amen. And you can go to ApologiaUtah .com

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to to help out with our general fund, our general church fund as well, if you'd like, and to look for more updates there.