November 27, 2018 Show with Daniel P. Buttafuoco, Esq. on “Consider the Evidence: A Trial Lawyer Examines Eyewitness Testimony in Defense of the Reliability of the New Testament” PLUS Roger Ellsworth on “The 12 Days of Christmas: Morning & Evening Thoughts on Immanuel: God with Us”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio

platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one

man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear

from you, the listener, with your own.

Questions.

Now here's our host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 27th

day of November 2018.

I'm so delighted to have back on the program after a long absence my

dear friend Dan Buttafuoco.

Dan Buttafuoco for most of my career has been a primary

client of mine in the advertising realm.

He was my largest advertising client for the 15 years I worked for WMCA radio.

He has become over those years a very dear friend of mine.

He is an author, a conference speaker, the founder of the Historical Bible Society, and the founding

partner of the law firm of Buttafuoco and Associates.

Today we're going to be addressing his new book, Consider the Evidence, a Trial Lawyer Examines Eyewitness

Testimony in Defense of the Reliability of the New Testament.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Daniel P. Buttafuoco.

Oh Chris, the honor.

Yeah, it is conjuring up memories of the days when you used

to regularly come over to the church where I was a member at that time in the 90s,

Calvary Baptist Church of Amityville, and you would record your commercials for WMCA radio right from our

pulpit microphone.

With my daughter on cassette tape.

That's right.

And I still remember your daughter doing the ad in one take perfectly.

One take perfectly.

That's sort of how it was.

She had three kids perfectly in one shot.

Wow.

That sort of is.

Kristen, how she rolls.

Wow.

Well, tell her I said hello.

It's been a long time.

In fact, I don't think I've seen her since the day of her wedding.

Oh, that's right.

Yeah, it's a while.

Well, God is good.

Well, why don't you tell our listeners something about the Historical.

Bible Society, first of all?

Well, Chris, you were actually instrumental in helping me with the Historical Bible Society.

I started to collect, and it turned

out that people when they would see these books would

spark a

conversation about the Bible.

A major book

was I started to clean

the gaps of

various important Bibles that sort of

organization we formed to preserve these Bibles.

I have some Bibles that are so rare, there are only two or a handful.

When Bible museums spring up, they

contact us, and they ask, of course, the answer is no.

We have our own ministry.

We use it.

I use these books as

what I call eye candy to get

people interviewed.

Dan, he goes, I

got to

be wonderful.

The

Historical

Bible

Society has

been a great vehicle for getting people interested in the Word of God and for why we

believe the.

Bible is the Word of God.

Amen.

And I can say firsthand, having seen Dan give his presentation for the Historical Bible Society

probably around six or seven times at least, I could say it's

absolutely fascinating.

It is excellent.

I never got bored, even though I saw the presentation multiple times.

Because even though the facts were the same, obviously, you didn't change the facts of history, you did change up your presentation a bit

from time to time.

And I just heartily recommend it to anybody, whether you are a pastor, whether you are a parachurch

leader, whether you are a headmaster at a school.

I urge you to go to historicalbiblesociety .org and contact Dan and

ask him, request him to speak at your church or school or other function.

It is absolutely phenomenal.

In fact, I think I was at your very first presentation, which was at a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church

that the late Fred Trinkline was pastoring on Long Island.

All right, Chris.

First of all, your audience can feel free to contact me.

I'll give my email if that's okay.

It's d, as in Daniel, then butterfucolaw .com,

dbutterfucolaw .com, and it's very easy to

reach me.

It is never the same.

Great students and

everything in

between.

From what they would call the altar in a Coptic Orthodox church on a Sunday.

Right.

I'm not ordained.

I'm not Coptic.

And they gave me a Sunday service from their altar where the priest walked

barefoot.

They're seminary students, pretty blown away by

that.

And they had me back also to speak to their youth group and wide

ranging.

And I don't know if you know this, but we gave it at the

level of that presentation, which we professionally,

you know,

that sort of good housekeeping,

also with the fact that I'm a

lawyer in some ways.

And, you know, for Billy Graham's organization to offer us that opportunity was really wonderful.

And we thank them.

We also.

Did it at Moody Bible Institute in Chicago.

Wow.

Well, I have been there for their Founders Conference years ago, and hopefully I will be able to visit there again

soon.

In fact, one of the other special memories I have of you is that the Lord

used me in some way, anyway, to bring to you the doctrines of sovereign grace.

I can remember.

I can remember saying that, but this is supposed to be a secret.

We're not supposed to tell.

Anybody.

Well, it's just a funny story, because I can remember one

Christmas in the 1990s.

I gave you R .C. Sproul's book, Grace Unknown.

Oh, he rest in peace.

What a good man.

Yes.

And that book is under a different title today.

I think it's called What Is Reform Theology, but it used to be called Grace Unknown.

I gave it to you, and you said, are you kidding me with your Calvinist propaganda?

Another piece of propaganda.

All right.

And you took it, and then you woke me up on New Year's Day.

And you said, Chris, I haven't been able to sleep all night.

I've finished this book.

I read it from cover to cover.

I agree with R .C. Sproul on everything.

Well, you know, it's funny.

I've grown up in a Pentecostal tradition, and I

agree with these things.

And I do believe it is, but I

didn't choose them.

Complex, and they're hard for people.

You know, we may think we have choice, and I guess in a way we do.

My theology has

become reformed, even in terms of my eschatology.

And I get in debates, but people get hot over this, so I try to avoid it, because my main

goal is not so much to pound a type of theology, even though I think it's correct.

And I do believe it gives glory to God, and it's the right way to see people come to the Saving

Knowledge, because that is really what it is.

You know, we're supposed to

be a trial

lawyer, a trial

lawyer.

Amen.

Well, that should be the goal of every living Christian, including seminary

professors in reformed seminaries.

That should be their main goal, is to be a light in this dark world, and to glorify God,

and draw lost men and women and children to Him.

We also want to know a little bit about the law firm of Butterfugo & Associates.

Well, we are values are thoroughly

Christian.

Two partners, but I'm

right now in

the state of

Florida, a big

malpractice

anesthesia era,

crying

and trembling, and

asked the clients for

forgiveness.

I said she hadn't been able to sleep since then.

There were tears we

could do

for them.

But I think the main thing I did for them here was to get this reconciliation.

And we try to bring a godly perspective,

complete

lack of understanding of what we do.

We believe are just a civilized

method of dispute resolution, and we bring God in the process, and we try to sanctify it, and we try to do

things with integrity, and we've had amazing results.

I mean, we've broken records, we've had big cases, and mainly what we do is rebuild lives, because lives get

shattered by these things.

So we specialize, really, in the biggest cases, because that's where the most grief and the most harm is done,

and that also can justify me flying and spending two weeks somewhere, if I have to.

But, you know, it's a great thing.

I love what I do.

You know, people say I should be a pastor, right?

I remember this.

Years ago, it was like, you know, you have a good word, you're a good preacher, you should be a pastor.

And I just know in my heart that God never wanted me to be a pastor.

It's a great calling,

serving God as a lawyer.

And people, when they meet me, you know, in the courtroom, they expect somebody that is, you know,

a lawyer.

They expect you to have a certain impression.

I don't know really what it is.

They're not sure.

But when they see that I love the Lord, and, you know, I know the Bible, I have a master's degree in theology, as you know.

You know, I studied with Ravi Zacharias.

He was my teacher.

He was my client.

He's a great man.

I love Ravi.

He actually wrote the foreword for my book.

You know, I think people get disarmed by the fact of a lawyer who loves the Lord and who believes that the Bible is the word of God.

So God's been using me, and I'm just humbly going with it and see where it goes.

And whatever.

Happens, happens.

Amen.

Well, I want to read, actually, a quote from the foreword to your book by Ravi Zacharias.

And also, Scott Hoffman from the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association says,.

And demonstrates with confidence the inerrancy of the scriptures.

Well, those are some powerful endorsements for Consider the Evidence, A Trial Lawyer Examines

Eyewitness Testimony in Defense of the Reliability of the New Testament.

I'm going to give our email address for those of our listeners who may want to ask you a question.

It's ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us at least your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter.

Dan, as you know, there are books already available, apologetics books,

that have been written with the goal of convincing people, perhaps even primarily the lost,

of the reliability of the New Testament, and also with the goal of giving Christians

more ammunition to be even more ready to give an answer for the hope that lies within them.

Why did you write Consider the Evidence,.

Knowing this?

That's a great question, Chris.

You know, what I like about that question is it gets right to the heart of it.

You know, why do we need another book?

I sort of wrestle with that.

You know, one thing that trial lawyers are really good at, you know, I'm not a

Bible scholar.

Yes, I know a lot about the Bible.

Yes, I have a master's

degree.

And they're basically

talking to each other.

And while there's many great books out, and I've read quite a few, it's down to the

average arguments, and

I think my skill

set, and what we do, what I

do, is that we take complex concepts like medicine, and science, and

engineering, and then we break it down in such a way so that the

person of absence can be armed with

them.

You know, I could sound lofty, and I could talk in legalese, and they teach you when you're a

trial lawyer that that's the best way to lose your audience, right?

If no one's paying attention, and there's so many distractions in life today, as it is, why would anyone want to read

some gigantic tome with all this technical information, all this technical information in it?

You know, what happens?

You read three pages, and it sits on the shelf.

So I wrote a very readable book, something that you could fly through.

It's sort of one giant summation, if you will, or if you want to call it a legal brief, that flows very

nicely through the subject matter.

There's 182 footnotes, so if you want to get deeper in it, you can check out the bibliography.

I try to make it in such a way that someone can read it on the train going to work, or someone can buy it for a

colleague, and say, here, read this.

I try to keep it interesting.

I try to make it flow.

In fact, I actually took a page out of Rick Warren's book with The Purpose Driven Life, where he said the same thing.

He kept shortening the sentences, kept simplifying, and I try to do exactly that, because the bottom line is, you can

write a masterpiece, but if nobody reads it, or only five people read it, what good is it?

So I wanted to make this readily accessible to the average Joe, if you will, and I want people

to be able to read it and enjoy it, and understand the main goal of the book.

Yes, it's good for unbelievers, but it's also good for believers to understand why you believe that the Bible

is the Word of God.

I mean, that's a really important question.

Why do we believe the New Testament can be trustworthy?

Why is it reliable?

And there are really good evidentiary reasons that lawyers look at.

Lawyers have that unique perspective.

We deal with evidence, especially trial lawyers.

Why is this so believable?

What makes this persuasive?

Why can I trust it?

And I cover the main point.

By the way, I have a lot more material.

I need to make some addendums, but I don't want to make the book too big.

So what you have is what you have.

Maybe there'll be a sequel.

Who knows?

Great.

We do already have listeners coming in with questions.

We have Mary in Cork, Ireland, who says, Good afternoon, Chris.

I wonder if I should read this in an Irish accent.

No, I better not do that.

I have a question for your guest.

Being an attorney barrister who is well acquainted with the seriousness of breaking the

law and would have seen many cases, does it still overwhelm you at times when you

meditate on the justice and mercy of God's towards condemned sinners?

The just one becomes the justifier while the condemned are justified, set free, and declared not

guilty.

I think it must be absolutely amazing because it does not happen in our earthly courtrooms.

Thank you for taking the time to read my question.

Well, first of all, thank you, Mary.

I love Cork.

I've been there.

It's a beautiful place.

And yeah, it was a while ago.

Are you ever going to be giving your Historical Bible Society presentation in Cork?

Tell Mary to invite me.

Tell the pastor to invite me.

Maybe we'll see.

Well, you heard that.

You heard that, Mary.

But I will say this, that I never cease to

stop being overwhelmed from what God has done.

I believe God

is a God of justice in court.

But I also know that mercy triumphs

over justice.

And even in my dealings with others, I tend to be charitable.

Then he goes and shakes

down a fellow believer for like $32.

I never want to be that person.

I want to be somebody that is very generous.

When you get to

justice, we

have to deal.

We have to get

the best that we

can.

And I know that

doesn't sit

well

with some people.

Mary sounds like a believer.

Well, thank you so much, Mary.

And it's a good thing that you are vacationing in the United States of America because we will be able to get you

a copy of Dan's book, free of charge, Compliments of Dan Buttafuoco, just because you've

written in a question today.

And just to let our listeners know, we do not send books out overseas because the

cost that would start heaping up would be just too astronomical

for our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, who are the actual ones who send out these books

to our listeners who send in questions.

So good for you, Mary, since you're vacationing in the United States.

We have Linda from Hilltop Lakes, Texas.

On the reliability of the Bible, there are some who argue that the English Bible, and more specifically the King

James Version, is the only reliable translation in the world.

Considering that the Reformation started with the Czechs, Huss, the Germans, Luther, and

the French, Calvin, long before the King James even existed, it seems, on the

face of it, this argument would be illogical.

Please comment.

Well, thanks for

that.

The only

underlying facts you

will, which is

based on the

Erasmus 1516, which I also have a copy of that original book.

And that is the first Greek Bible.

I will

tell you that Erasmus only had seven or eight manuscripts at his disposal when he translated that.

And he did

it because he was so well respected.

But the Pope, by the same token, did a manuscript that was in

existence at the time, which was the Codex

Vaticanus 1492.

And for whatever reason, the

Pope, the masterpiece of

English literature was produced

there.

Each translated it, and they kept

doing it.

It was done on purpose so that you

could remember.

King James is based on seven or eight manuscripts.

There have been many manuscript discoveries, most notably the

Bodmer Papyri and others.

And we now have a much better understanding of what the text is like.

So we have more accurate manuscripts.

That's why I prefer the NIV, the New International Version, because it's based on better and more

reliable manuscripts.

However, having said that, you can get saved with either version.

And so the differences in these books is not that much.

You know, not too many people speak or understand King James.

It is a barrier for some, and so I prefer a Bible.

If you're blind, I prefer a Braille Bible.

It's really being practical.

I don't think there's any magic in any one version.

I think they're all anointed.

I think God superintends all the processes, and I think God watches over His Word.

So whatever version, hub

.com, which I highly recommend.

When I was in Bible school, my professor, and he said, I want you to use no less than

20 translations of the Bible.

I said, are you nuts?

I didn't know 20 translations existed, right?

Well, thank God for the internet.

I found that 20 is more than 20 on BibleHub, and I realized what he was saying.

It became like a hologram, the Bible, at that point, because when you get multiple translations, you get more insight into

the passage, and I think that all of these things have merit.

We should not be so

deep that we'll never

fathom its treasures, and I think it's that way on purpose.

You know, God is simple to the simple, and He's complex to the complex, and that's just the way God is.

He's amazing.

What can I say?

Well, thank you, Linda, in Hilltop Lakes, Texas.

Please make sure we have your full mailing address so that we can ship you a copy of Dan Bottifuco's book that

we are discussing today, and that is not only compliments of Dan Bottifuco, but it's compliments of cvbbs

.com, who is shipping that out to you absolutely free of charge at no cost to you or to Orange Represents Radio.

And by the way, the next time I invite you on, Dan, when you're my guest, tell everybody that the NASB

is your favorite translation,.

Because they're sponsoring this show.

I changed my mind.

I do use that, by the way, actually.

I just thought, you know what it is?

I have an NIV that my wife gave me in the 80s, and I've got so many notations in it

that my daughter said, Dad, when you're gone, I don't want anything else.

I just want that Bible.

All your notes in it.

I'm like, fine,.

It's yours, babe.

Well, we're going to go to our first break, and if anybody else wants to join us on the air, do so now, because we're rapidly running out of time.

Dan can only be on with us for the first hour.

The book is Consider the Evidence, and our email address is ChrisArnson at gmail .com.

ChrisArnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back.

With Dan Buttafuoco.

Got to tell you, for my money, Chris Arnson's radio program is just the best.

Iron.

Criticizing.

Iron.

I think that's what it's called.

This is Todd Friel of Wretched Radio and TV, with Phil Johnson of Grace To You, inviting

everybody to come to the G3 conference, which has almost instantly become one of the best conferences in the

country.

And it is.

It's a great.

Conference.

I love it.

And Chris Arnson was there last year.

He's been there, I think, every year.

It's great to see him there.

You and I actually did some recordings in the lobby at that place,.

Which is a highlight to me.

So tons of stuff going on.

Tons of great speakers.

And no matter where you are in the building, you will hear Chris Arnson's laugh.

And that's worth the price of admission alone.

If you would like to join Phil, me, Chris, and a cavalcade of great preachers, so it should be

a cavalcade of great preachers, and me, g3conference .com, g3conference

.com.

My name is Steve Lawson, founder and president of One Passion Ministries, as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier

Ministries.

I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.

It's called New Covenant Church, NYC.

They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in Midtown Manhattan.

You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www

.ncc .nyc.

They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching,

in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit New Covenant Church, NYC.

Again, their information can be found at www .ncc .nyc.

Have a great day.

Chris Arnzen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio,.

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Hi, I'm Stephan Lindblad, Assistant Professor of Systematic Theology at IRBS

Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

I accepted this call to teach at the seminary because I'm firmly convinced that the people of

God in the churches of our Lord Jesus Christ need to be firmly grounded in the truth

of Holy Scripture.

I'm excited to be teaching such subjects as the nature of theology and the doctrine of Scripture,

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Our churches and our people need to be well grounded in these truths.

Indeed, future ministers of the gospel need to understand these truths in order to proclaim them

to all of God's people.

If you want to learn more about our program, visit us online at irbsseminary .org.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

If you've watched my Dividing Line webcast often enough, you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other

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Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here.

I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years.

His name is Dan Buttafuoco.

Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer, but not the type that typically comes to mind.

Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself.

Recently he wrote a book titled Consider the Evidence for the Bible.

Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword.

Dan also has a master's degree in theology.

Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states.

He represents many Christians in serious injury matters all over the country.

Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer.

He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy, and currently his firm has over 100

cases that have settled for $1 million or more, and in approximately 10

different states.

In Illinois, his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history.

In New York, his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the Law Journal.

If you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state, I recommend that you

call Dan.

Consultations are free.

There is no fee unless you win.

Dan Buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878.

1 -800 -669 -4878.

Or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail

.com.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Welcome back, and if you just tuned us in, Dan Buttafuoco is our guest today.

For the first hour, with a half hour to go, we are discussing his book, Consider the Evidence, A Trial

Lawyer Examines Eyewitness Testimony in Defense of the Reliability of the New Testament, with a foreword by

Ravi Zacharias.

If you would like to join us with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Only remain anonymous if your question is personal and private.

And by the way, Dan, when I heard James White's ad for Post Tenebrous Lux Bible

Reminding, I was reminded that you gave James, as a gift, one of his most prized

possessions, the Stephanos Greek text, correct?

Yeah, he saw the one I had and I gave him

another one, and gave it to him.

But well, we'll tell you, I was pretty impressed with that goatskin turquoise belt.

Oh, you go to the website of the Post Tenebrous Lux Bible Reminding, I think

it's ptlbiblereminding .com, I think it is. ptlbiblereminding .com.

I will tell you, my appointment canceled, so I can stay on a little longer.

Oh, great.

We could spend a little more time together, because this is good.

I love talking to you,.

Brother.

Yeah, you too, brother.

Well, we have Jenny in Montgomery, Alabama, representing grateful moms

everywhere, she says.

She starts off with, with a son who declared he was an atheist, agnostic at best, while he

was only 10 years old.

Books such as yours will always line the shelves in my library.

Thank you for your commitment to follow God's call in your life.

I'm looking forward to reading your book.

And her question is, as a fellow author, I have found that anytime I'm writing or

speaking on a subject that will significantly impact the lives of men and women for good, the spiritual

warfare in my own personal life intensifies.

Between being tested and tempted, I know it's imperative that we cling to the cross for both hope and strength.

That said, did you, Daniel, struggle with forces unseen as in Ephesians 6, while writing

Consider the Evidence?

And if so, what is your favorite way to dodge the chaos of the evil one that he so

readily provides?

Well, that's a great question, and it shows a lot have been attacked.

And the answer is simple, you have to pray.

Immediately you feel, you feel the, it's not easy, you

know.

I sort of would, in some way, rather hide out and not be used

because you don't want to face these things.

Serve the master.

You see yourself out there, you're on the firing line, but we ask God for grace and

he gives more grace.

So that's where I'm at with that, but no, it did

increase.

Amen.

Well, thank you, Jenny, and please make sure we have your mailing address in, where was that, in

Montgomery, Alabama, so that cvbbs .com can ship out your free copy of Dan

Buttafuoco's book, Consider the Evidence.

Thank you for joining us with a very personal question.

We have, let's see, Aaron in Indianapolis, Indiana.

I wondered if you'd ask Mr. Buttafuoco if he is aware whether there is a difference in perception

of the reliability of eyewitness testimony back in the New Testament era versus today's

perception of its reliability.

Scientists have questioned and tested man's credibility, bias, and memory of late to

provide accurate details for eyewitness testimony.

Has he found this to have only armed the modern -day Bible skeptic or the atheist all the

more?

Okay, well, first of all, you have to know something about and

seeing first -hand how witnesses do not

tell if someone's

their

communication and their communication skills.

Very, very complex in that regard.

I think, as a

general rule,

studies that

said going

to the 18th century, the information

that a person would receive in their entire lifetime was the amount of

information in a single, the quantity of

information that people was

minute.

So what I would like to say is that

one of whom was Mary Magdalene at the tomb of Christ, right?

Now, first of all, if you

were going to fabricate an

account of the eyewitnesses in the 18th century,

it was deemed that women were to be property, essentially, and

their testimony did not hold up in court.

But what man took 2 ,000 years to find out, which is that women

actually make the very best witnesses.

Because if you've ever tried a case, you see that when you put a woman on the stand, you basically have to ask one question

and sit down.

You get the whole

story, information out of them with a sledgehammer, and, you know, that just shows

the wisdom of God in allowing witnesses to the resurrection.

Furthermore, it also points to the fact that the story wasn't fabricated, because if you were going to

fabricate a story, you'd never put, if you were going to create a

legend, you would put

one of the many important people in the world at that time.

And so why did it happen that way?

Why did the Bible, why did the New Testament, that's exactly the way it went

down.

And that's sort of an indication, or when you see how the

Bible lays out, it records the good, the bad, and the ugly.

You know, we have Paul fighting with Peter over, you

know, a cowardly denying Christ his best buddy to

a servant girl in the garden.

We have all kinds of negative information recorded in the Bible, and that's because that's the way it happened.

The Bible doesn't whitewash it.

We have Paul putting men and women and children, hauling them off,

evil, spiteful, horrible guy, and stubborn, and you know, and then you find him getting saved, and

then he fights with, did he fight with Barnabas?

They fought over whether John Mark should come along.

I mean, all this stuff is recorded, but it's so obviously true, the way it lays out.

Like, you couldn't fabricate this like that.

There's too much detail.

And even the way the narrative lays out in Acts, for example, you see that Luke was part of the narrative.

You can see him being part of the adventure.

He says, we went here, and then we went there.

And where Luke uses technical terms, he and other

third -party sources, and you find out that it's exactly the way he described it, even in the most obscure ways.

And then when Luke's not part of the narrative, he wasn't there.

He says, then they went here, and we caught up with them at such and such a city.

So all of that

stuff in the first century that it is today, because

today we have video equipment, but also people's memories were better then.

There was much more of an oral tradition.

The human mind is an amazing thing.

My daughter, and most people don't do this, my daughter, she's bright, but she's not, I don't think she's a

genius.

She memorized the entire book of Hebrews when she was in Christian school.

Wow.

That sounds like the entire book of Hebrews she memorized.

That was her assignment.

I thought it was crazy, but she did it.

Now, in the first century, that was commonplace for people to do that, because, again, they didn't have writing paper, they didn't have

iPhones, they didn't have computers, they didn't have radios, TVs, recording devices.

So the oral tradition was very important.

So I think that the eyewitness testimony is very reliable.

In fact, Peter says, we're not followers of cleverly invented fables, but we were eyewitnesses of his

majesty, John Wright in 1 John 1, that which we have heard, that which we have seen, that

which we have handled, this we declare to you concerning the word of truth.

You know, these people very much were part of these events.

They lived with Christ for years.

They ate with him.

They saw him in action.

They saw him calm the sea.

They saw him hear the blind, raise the dead.

You know, they saw him crucified.

They knew it was a bad time.

They were not any less, you know, put off by death than we are

today.

They knew it was a big deal when Jesus was crucified.

They knew it was over.

And then to see him come back to life, they were just as if to

their deaths, being cross -examined to death.

I have a friend who says, oh, these people weren't cross -examined.

Are you kidding?

They were cross -examined to death.

I asked people a few sharp questions, and they changed their whole story.

These people were cross -examined with burning, boiling oil,

crucified, and none of them recanted.

I mean, to me, that's so reliable.

I don't know what could be more reliable.

Yeah.

In fact, there's a famous saying, and of course I'm paraphrasing it or butchering it in some way, but

men will die for a lie, but they will not normally die for something they know to be a lie.

Right.

Because people say things like, well, you know, suicide bombers have died for what they believe.

But to come back to that is they're not in a position to know the truth.

They were deceived.

But nobody would willingly die for what they know is a lie.

You're right.

These disciples would say,

you're right.

Yeah, I made it up.

Let's sacrifice to the emperor and move on.

You know, but that's not what they did.

It was a sign that they're.

Telling the truth.

Thank you, Aaron.

Please give us your full mailing address in Indianapolis, Indiana, so that CVBBS .com can ship you out your free

copy of Dan Buttafuoco's book, Consider the Evidence.

Thank you so much for joining us on the air with such a great question.

In fact, we are dispelling the myths that many

male chauvinists might harbor in their minds that women will not be interested in these kinds of

subjects, because all of our.

Questioners so far, Dan, are women.

Well, I've lived with four women for years.

That's right.

So I'm a big fan of the gentler sex, as it were.

You know, I think women are much more interesting

than men.

They're more complicated.

And I tell you what, I like men and women.

Well, we

have

another lady.

In fact, this is a lady whose name I recognize.

She's been a.

Guest on this show.

She's a published author, and Pepperdine University gave her some kind of a high

award for her writing.

But Dr. Latane C. Scott from Albuquerque, New Mexico, sent in a question.

And she asks, why is the resurrection account so important in establishing the veracity of.

New Testament documents?

It's a great question.

I mean, Paul from C .S. Lewis,

Christianity is not

true, that your wife

was faithful

to you if it wasn't true.

You wouldn't

want to

believe that.

Truth is important.

Truth about God is supremely important, because it affects the state of our soul, and it affects who we

are, and it affects everything.

So I might want to believe, but if that's not true, then my

wanting it to be so is merely wishful thinking.

And we know that many people in life engage in wishful thinking, but

wishful

thinking

doesn't cut into

everything.

That's the linchpin to our faith.

Because let me tell you this right now, anyone who's listening, if Christ is not risen from

the dead,

we have no

business

being.

He

is indeed

risen.

If

you don't believe that

Christ is.

Amen.

Well, having, as I

said, interviewed Dr. Latane

C. Scott before,.

I know that certainly that she believes in the resurrection of Christ.

In fact, she wrote a powerful poem on that, that I will email to you at some point, Dan.

She's quite a gifted writer and author.

Well, thank you, Latane.

Make sure we have your mailing address in Albuquerque, New Mexico, so that we can ship this book out.

Actually, CVBBS .com will ship this out to you free of charge when we get your full mailing

address in Albuquerque, New Mexico.

Oh, I forgot, she has a follow -up question.

What is the biggest objection that non -believers have to the eyewitness.

Accounts of the resurrection?

The biggest one is, I mean, you know, you hear a lot of lame,

but I'll give you

something here

that I think

is really important.

The New

Testament,

that sacrifice yesterday, there

was sacrificing as

specified,

continually

rivers of blood run

continuously.

And all of Judaism centered around that.

In fact, Judaea in 70 AD, with the destruction of the temple, Jesus

prophesied in Matthew, he said, within a generation, not one

stone.

When they

heard

this, they said,

Jesus

said, I'm

telling you, according to Josephus, the

Jewish Roman historian, and the temple caught on fire and literally burned to the ground.

And when the gold melted, the Romans literally, they didn't want to destroy the temple

from another in order to

get Judaism as we know it.

It was so monumental.

It has to be underscored that not

one Jewish people, every single author of the Bible

was a Jew, except for Luke.

He was a doctor, but he also was almost a Jew.

He was a doctor.

We'll give him a Jewish status.

So every single person was wrapped up in this thing called Judaism, and nobody mentions

the destruction of the temple?

Are you serious?

Not only that, but the entire book of Hebrews is totally based on the fact that we

don't need sacrifices anymore.

The blood of bulls and shadows of that which is to

come.

And Jesus is the new and perfect sacrifice of a new and covenant.

And you would think the author might want to mention, and by the way, folks, we don't have a temple or an altar at this

point.

That's the slam dunk argument.

He never makes it.

Why does he make it?

How do you miss that point?

Because it hadn't happened yet.

That's the only possible explanation.

Not only that, in Revelation, we see all this talk about eschatology and this

prophetic language of destruction and judgment.

He never mentioned the destruction of the temple.

Are you seriously going to date Revelation to the second century when he doesn't mention the destruction of the

temple?

How is it possible that John would not mention the destruction of the temple?

Clearly, that book had to be written before 70 AD, and there are technical reasons based on some

early church father, why some scholars try to date it later.

It depends on how you read it, and I totally disagree with it.

We can get technical at some point.

You'd have to take out your dictionary to understand that.

But clearly in the AD, and if

you want a volume

two, and we know Mark was the first to write about the time

when these

guys were walking

around, and just

to write

about the

time of

Matthew.

So we have real evidence.

Well, I must

say that I do agree with you on that, and I think.

That we have to make our audience aware that you and I and Ken Gentry and a

comparatively smaller handful of folks believe in the earlier

date of the writing of the scriptures.

It can't be any other way.

I mean, there's no way they would omit that fact.

In fact, to this day, at every Jewish wedding, we remember the temple's destruction by breaking a glass

before they yell mazel tov.

That's what that's all about.

I have lots of Jewish friends.

I've been to lots of Jewish weddings and bar mitzvahs, okay?

They never fail to remember that.

You're telling me these Jewish writers in the first century, when this happened, they're not going to mention it?

It was a monumental event.

I agree.

It made the Twin Towers look small in comparison.

It was like the end of the world to them,.

But you're not going to mention it?

Come on.

Oh, I totally agree with you.

By the way, did you say you wanted to stick around a little longer?

I could stick around for like another 15 minutes.

Okay.

Well, we're going to go to our midway break right now, and when we come back, we'll return with the final

several minutes with Dan Buttafuoco.

If you'd like to join us on the air, please email us at ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

Please, as always, give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA, and only remain

anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter.

Don't go away.

God willing, we will be right back right after these messages from our sponsors.

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Have a great day.

Chris Sorensen, host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio here.

I want to.

Tell you about a man I have personally known for many years.

His name is Dan Buttafuoco.

Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer, but not the type that typically comes to mind.

Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself.

Recently, he wrote a book titled Consider the Evidence for the Bible.

Ravi Zacharias wrote the foreword.

Dan also has a master's degree in theology.

Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states.

He represents many Christians in serious injury matters all over the country.

Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer.

He wrote the test for the National Board of Trial Advocacy, and currently his firm has over 100

cases that have settled for $1 million or more, and in approximately 10

different states.

In Illinois, his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history.

In New York, his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the Law Journal.

If you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state, I recommend that you

call Dan.

Consultations are free.

There is no fee unless you win.

Dan Buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878.

1 -800 -669 -4878.

Or email me for Dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail

.com.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said, give yourself unto reading.

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He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He will not use the thoughts of other men's brains, proves he has no brains of his own.

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of Iron Trumpets Iron Radio.

I just have a quick reminder that the next Iron Trumpets Iron Radio Pastors Luncheon is going to be, God willing, on

Thursday, January 3rd, 11 a .m. to 2 p .m. at the Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall

here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

Our guest speaker is Dr. Tony Costa, Professor of Apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

This is absolutely free of charge.

Every single pastor that attends, or man in leadership that attends, will receive

probably at least two heavy sacks of free books that nearly every major Christian publisher in

the United States and the United Kingdom donate every year so that all of these men who come to the

annual Iron Trumpets Iron Christian Christmas Luncheon, which is January 3rd, a

little after Christmas, will be taking home with them.

And this was all started by my beloved late wife, Julie, in the 1990s, and I

am looking forward to having many, many more of these events in the future.

So just keep that on your calendar for Thursday, January 3rd, and send me an email if you'd like to comment

to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Everything is absolutely free of charge for men in ministry leadership who attend.

Also, Dr. Tony Costa will be speaking at the Enola First Church of God that Friday, Saturday, and

Sunday following the luncheon.

That's January 4th through the 6th.

He will be speaking on the most dangerous threats to the Christian church in North America.

That's the Friday, January 4th through Sunday, January 6th at the Enola First Church of God

in Enola, Pennsylvania, pastored by my dear friend, Pastor George Jensen.

For more details, you can call the Enola First Church of God at 717 -732 -4253,

717 -732 -4253, or go to enolacog .com, e -n -o

-l -a -c -o -g .com.

And finally, folks, please remember that if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear, please go to

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And we'll be giving other announcements after Dan Buttafuoco concludes his part of the interview today.

We are discussing his book, Consider the Evidence.

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, c -h -r -i -s

-a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.

And as always, please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside of the USA.

And we have, let's see here, we have

Jennifer, another Jennifer, this is our second Jennifer, who's sent in a question, Dan.

And I just had it in front of me, oh here it is, nope, that's not, oh here it is.

Jennifer from Shawnee, Kansas asks, as a Christian and a

lawyer, how do you decide what to do biblically in some of your cases?

You don't

have

to do

anything

that you

don't believe in.

You should,

the idea, every

trial, we start

out every trial,

and your

family

should have a case

for a guy

for

the infection

developed,

for

my

clients

who

are

right,

an

insurance

company.

Yes, I have heard many nightmare stories, nightmarish stories from people

whose insurance companies bailed out on them and basically robbed them of all the money that they had been paying.

For all their, all those years prior to their.

Let me say something, as tempting as it is to talk about me and my practice, believe me

that's very tempting, I'd really rather talk about the book and here's why.

I want everyone in the

money -making

venture sincerely

seeking the truth, the reformed

theology of people, you

know, people for whatever reason believe whatever they want,

not used enough today.

Maybe your listeners

are not

in this group, but I find that we have a feel -good

Christianity and upon, you know, some

kind of misguided notion of what love and grace is, and I think that what needs

to happen, because the church is so weak and powerless, what needs to happen is we need to raise up a

crop of people who are adamant, convinced, sold -out

believers, who know that we have the evidence on our side.

I want to see people respond to this evidence the way I respond in court when I'm representing a client

that I know is right.

When I know I have a good case, I become a fierce advocate, and I want Christians, Christians need to be fierce

advocates for the truth of the gospel.

The culture is deteriorating at an alarming rate, and the problem, the reason it's deteriorating at an alarming rate

is not because of right -wing politics or left -wing politics or who's in office.

That's not the problem.

The problem is the underlying assumptions of morality and truth in this culture,

and we have discarded the Bible, which is our anchor, which is our mooring, and it's a firm foundation, and as

that foundation is being torn out, problems that are inevitable, and

it's been said that, you know, science of an unjust society is the proliferation of laws.

We have so many laws we don't even know the ones we're breaking and not breaking.

So what I want to encourage people to do is get back to the Bible.

If we can get Christians back to the Bible, where Christians can actually start reading the Bible, trusting the

Bible, knowing the Bible, knowing why the Bible is the Bible, and being able to defend

Scripture as inerrant and as being reliable, I think we'll see a major change.

That's why I'm pushing this.

I believe it.

I would make a lot more money if I could get off your show and start giving some attention to my clients, right?

But the point is not to make money.

I've made a good living, okay?

The point is to get the word out there and get this tool into the hands of people.

I want to see people get this book and hand it out.

I want it on the train.

We made it cheap.

We made it a paperback on purpose.

You know, it's my first full -length book.

It would be nice to have a hardcover and say, look, I look what I made.

But that's not what this is about.

I made it a paperback.

We made it readable.

We made it simple.

We packaged it in a bite so people could read it and that people

can have their

faith.

God says that for a reason.

There's nothing more important than your faith.

It's more important than your work.

It's a faith -based economy, if you will, right?

If you want to be crude, that's the currency with God.

It's faith.

You know, faith is undermined.

So we want to encourage faith.

We want people to exercise

faith.

Only God can change someone's heart.

I understand that, right?

It takes the Holy Spirit to change your heart.

But I did want

to tell you that

because.

I think...

Well, I really appreciate that, Dan, and I would want to discuss

with you very soon, being my spring version of the Iron

Sharpens Iron radio pastors' luncheon, I'd like to speak with you about being my keynote

speaker and give your Historical Bible Society presentation sometime in the spring when I have my next

pastors' luncheon after the one that's coming up in January.

Well, that's very kind, Chris.

You know, I love you.

I love people generally.

I know in churches I enjoy

expounding on the truth, and God knew exactly what

he wanted.

He watched the translation process, and yes, I know there are some weak

translations.

I get it.

I'm not trying to whitewash that or sweep it under the rug.

You really have to know why we believe what we believe.

You know, I go into churches, I start pretty much every sermon saying this, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for having me

in your church.

You know it's getting really bad out there when the preacher's off.

And I usually get the predictable laugh, and then I say, how many people

believe the Bible is the Word of God?

And you'll know why you believe that.

And then I get crickets, and that should not

be so.

I want to encourage you to not only get my book, but to go on the web and do

your own research, and maybe write your own book, all right?

Maybe write your own essays or emails to people.

Use some of

these arguments.

This is the church, and

bless that imparting.

God bless you all,.

And Merry Christmas.

And if you want to get a hold of Dan, the website for the Historical Bible Society is

historicalbiblesociety .org.

Historicalbiblesociety .org.

You can also email me, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And by the way, Dan, I was right.

The Post -Tenebrous Lux Bible Rebinding website is ptlbiblerebinding .com.

Ptlbiblerebinding .com if you want to contact them to have something rebound.

We always use that, that's for sure.

We have lots of rare books, and some could be rebound.

And again, if anyone needs to reach me, it's decolaw .com.

You can engage with anybody.

God bless you all.

Amen.

We'll have a blessed.

Christmas if I don't speak to you before then, brother.

All right, I wish you the best.

All right.

And don't go away, folks, because we are going to be joined by Jim Holmes, who's standing in today

for Roger Ellsworth, who is sick.

We are going to be discussing Roger's book, The Twelve Days of Christmas, Morning and Evening Thoughts on

Immanuel.

God with us.

And if you'd like to join us on the air with an email, with a question for Jim Holmes,

our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away, God willing, we'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www

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They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching,

in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit New Covenant Church NYC.

Again, their information can be found at www .ncc .nyc.

Have a great day.

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Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service.

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Hello, I'm Dr. Kerry Kimbrell, Senior Pastor at Bethlehem Baptist Church in Laurel, Mississippi.

And I'm hoping that many of you who listen to Chris Arnson's Iron Sharpens Iron radio program will join Chris

and me at the Deep South Founders Conference, Thursday, January 24th through Saturday,

January 26th here in Laurel.

If you love God's Word and love to hear it powerfully preached, I can assure you that you will not be disappointed.

Our speakers at the Deep South Founders Conference this year include Rusty Reed, Gerald Henderson, Jason

Goodwin, Bobby Crenshaw, and our keynote speaker all the way from Zambia, Dr. Conrad

Mbewe, who has received the nickname the Spurgeon of Africa.

And I, for one, believe it's a very accurate description of Brother Conrad.

For more details, go to deepsouthfounders .com.

That's deepsouthfounders .com.

I look forward to giving a big Mississippi welcome to many Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners,

January 24th through January 26th.

Thank you.

Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God?

Or am I trying to please man?

If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a Reformed Baptist Church and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689.

We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

than how men view these things.

That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the apostles' priority, it must not be ours either.

We believe by God's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man, and to be

vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us, and to build up the body of Christ in truth and

love.

If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts or plan to visit our area, please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

You can call us at 508 -528 -5750.

That's 508 -528 -5750.

Or go to our website to email us, listen to past sermons, worship songs, or watch our TV program entitled

Resting in Grace.

You can find us at providencebaptistchurchma .org.

That's providencebaptistchurchma .org or even on sermonaudio .com.

Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Ironson on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

I would like to introduce you to my good friends Todd and Patty Jennings at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley

Bible Book Service.

Todd and Patty specialize in supplying reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them

affordable to everyone.

Since 1987, the family -owned and operated book service has sought to bring you the best available Christian books

and Bibles at the best possible prices.

Unlike other book sites, they make no effort to provide every book that is available because, frankly, much of what

is being printed is not worth your time.

That means you can get to the good stuff faster.

It also means that you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic, heretical, and

otherwise faith insulting material promoted by the secular book vendors.

Their website is cvbbs .com.

Browse the pages at ease, shop at your leisure, and purchase with confidence as Todd and Patty work

in service to you, the church, and to Christ.

That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service at cvbbs .com.

That's cvbbs .com.

Let Todd and Patty know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens.

Iron Radio.

And you can also call cvbbs .com at 800 -656 -0231, 800 -656

-0231, Monday through Friday from 10 a .m. to 4 30 p .m. Eastern Time.

Mention Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and purchase a minimum of $50 worth of merchandise and you'll

receive free shipping on your entire order.

You'll also receive absolutely free of charge the book Always Reforming by David Engelsma

and the cvbbs .com Christmas sale is currently underway where you will receive

10 off everything that they have in their inventory at cvbbs

.com.

In fact, cvbbs .com is intricately involved

in this book that we are discussing now, The 12 Days of Christmas, Morning and

Evening Thoughts on Immanuel God, with us by Roger Ellsworth.

And standing in for Roger Ellsworth today is Jim Holmes because of the fact that Roger has

unexpectedly come down with some kind of an illness, probably a

cold or something.

But we have Jim Holmes who is editor and publishing consultant

with Great Writing Publications.

And it is my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Jim Holmes.

Hey Chris, hi, thank you.

That was a very kind introduction.

Oh, my pleasure, brother.

Well, tell us about this book, The 12 Days of Christmas, that we want all of our

listeners to get a hold of before Christmas Day, especially.

The Christmas season has actually already begun, I would imagine that you would say that.

And why don't you tell us about The 12 Days of Christmas.

Most people that I know probably who celebrate Christmas know of Christmas

Eve and Christmas Day.

The only place that they've ever heard of The 12 Days of Christmas is from the very famous song, The Christmas

Carol.

Can you tell us about The 12 Days of Christmas?

Sure, Chris.

Well, I love the title

because, I guess, probably because of the song.

Let me backtrack

a

little

bit.

It was 1999 or so.

I guess that first got the idea going very, very, very well just

that year.

And then for whatever reason, it actually just went out of print.

And I always remembered this book to share the gospel over a

series of some

time

ago.

But

long

story

short,

maybe

some

of

the reasons

why,

therefore,

that God

with

us.

Since this other book came out ago, we first launched it.

And we were very, very intentional, kind of easy to read books and

minds of

believers.

Amen.

And by the way, I

just want

to tell our.

Listeners something about the author, so that you will have an idea of who wrote this book,

Roger Ellsworth.

Roger Ellsworth's name is not unfamiliar to many in

the Reformed community.

And he has also written for Banner of Truth and has been well known,

perhaps even more specifically amongst Reformed Baptists, for quite a number of years.

But I want to read something about Roger, which is actually on

the Banner of Truth website.

It says here, well, I have to enlarge this because I'm going blind.

See if I can enlarge this.

And before I do that, I'm going to give our email address.

It's chrisorenson at gmail .com.

If anybody has a question that they'd like to ask of Jim Holmes about this book,

The Twelve Days of Christmas, that's chrisorenson at gmail .com.

After coming to the knowledge of Christ at an early age, Roger Ellsworth began preaching at age 11 and

pastoring at age 16.

He has served as pastor of churches in Illinois, Kansas, and Missouri.

He is currently living in Jackson, Tennessee, and he is the retired pastor of Park View Baptist

Church there.

He is the author of 47 books, including Come Down Lord, Standing for God, The

Story of Elijah, and Is There an Answer? published by the Banner of Truth Trust.

He is also a regular contributor to Evangelical Times and Grace Tracks magazines.

He served for two years as president of the Illinois Baptist State Association and for 10 years

as trustee of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky, for two of those years,

which he was the chairman of the board.

He and his wife Sylvia have two sons, Tim and Marty.

Tim is the news and media relations director for Union University in Jackson, Tennessee.

Marty is the pastor of Emmaus Road Baptist Church in Whittington, Illinois, and Roger and Sylvia have

three grandchildren, Daniel, Emily, and Noah.

Just to give our listeners an idea about this author, Roger Ellsworth, who could not be

with us today, but we already have a listener waiting to have his question

asked.

We have CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who says, what is a good

way to respond to not only the cults who think that it is wicked to

celebrate a day like Christmas, but also even to a smaller number of our own Reformed brethren?

There are some of us, as you know, who do not believe that we should celebrate Christmas, not

only because of the pagan origins of the holiday, but also because of the Roman Catholic origins, and they

believe it is a violation of Scripture to add such a holiday to the practice of

Christian worship when it is not recorded in the Scripture.

How do you respond to people who say something like that?

Well, that obviously has to

do with how do we respond to people who say that

the lovingly Gentiles

became a man.

The weight of Scripture is so heavy, and yet the minds of unbelievers

got blinded.

And so I believe that it's important very, very preciously to engage with people who are

caught in cults.

We can be persistent, but we need

maybe to clear the minds of believers by not making a big

deal without sense that

we, as

ordinary human beings,

experience and

of the answer.

I guess the

question is

when it

starts.

Amen.

And what I have said to, especially to those friends of mine,

and in this day and age, it's truly a minority, but there are some theologically Reformed Christians who

are opposed to the celebration of Christmas or other man -made traditions like that.

I have said that I don't think that there is anything wrong with conquering something that

has pagan origins in the name of Christ and transforming it.

Unless you are actually participating in an idolatrous act, I don't

think that there's anything wrong with taking something that was once pagan and making it something

that is a useful tool to proclaim Jesus Christ.

In fact, I can remember as a new Christian, I was sitting at home in my living room

watching a Christmas special that was hosted by Neil Diamond, and I remember I was getting very

upset because I was listening to somebody who was not known to be a Christian

singing all these Christmas carols, and I was saying he has no business singing about these things.

But then after I was listening to this for a while, it dawned on me the miracle of what was happening,

that once a year, God in His sovereignty even has the pagans singing

praise to His birth, and even using the Scripture in some of their songs.

So I think it's quite remarkable that God in His sovereignty.

Has ordained such a thing.

Yeah, absolutely, and hey, you know what, you were talking a little earlier on.

Yes, he is.

And

Spurgeon

himself, as far as I know, never made a

big deal of it.

Yeah, praise God.

Well, thank you CJ, and by the way CJ, make sure you give us your full mailing address because you have won a free copy of

the 12 Days of Christmas Morning and Evening Thoughts on Immanuel God with us.

Let's see, we have an anonymous listener who asks, What is the best way to help

bring cheer and comfort to those during Christmas when it may be the most painful of all

days because of the fact that they have lost precious loved ones.

Close to them, either in death, divorce, or for other reasons?

That tender question goes

out to people who are

somebody maybe in the middle,

and yet there is, the Scripture says that there is,

we can

only encourage people

that He who is able to, in

one sense, when we think of other people who are celebrating

Christmas with

me, great

encouragement

to them.

Praise God, and I

can say.

As a widower that this day continues to be a

bittersweet day.

I love Christmas.

I love rejoicing with fellow believers and even sharing the good news of the Gospel and

the reason for the birth of Christ with my lost family, friends, and loved ones.

But it is a sad time having lost my wife, my precious wife who is in eternity with Christ, who

went home to be with the Lord in 2011.

But I can tell you how much it has meant to me when brothers and sisters in Christ, and even

some non -Christian folks who are friends, have invited me over their

homes to share the holidays with them.

And I would strongly urge anybody listening to make room at your table

and make room in your home to invite people over who you know have lost

loved ones or a loved one during this time, because it can be a deeply

devastatingly depressing time for some people in various degrees of intensity,

especially if it was a recent loss.

So in fact my wife went home to be with the Lord 10 days before Christmas

in 2011.

So I just urge you to do that, brothers and sisters, especially if you

have a home where you have festivities going on during the season.

In fact, even if you don't, you can invite people out to dinner at a restaurant or whatever

you can do to help make this a brighter time for those experiencing sadness.

Yeah, amen.

There's always room for an extra chair around the table, right?

Amen.

In fact, there is a chapter in this book, Christmas for the Sorrowful.

Now, the very first chapter in the book, The Christmas Curiosity of the Angels.

What can you say about that?

It's very interesting, Chris, how many are elated by the idea of

angels and what it was

like for the angels.

It introduces the angels

over to

the shepherds,

gives them a

sense.

Praise

God.

Let's see, here we have another listener,

Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, New York.

And Ronald says, one objection that many Christians have to Christmas is that it has

become a commercialized event that really

totally eclipses the birth of Christ, the event that we are supposed to be celebrating.

How do you overcome that type of objection when brothers and sisters.

In Christ will bring that up as a reason to avoid the holiday?

Yeah, an easy answer to that other

than the

fact of the incarnation of Christ

may rejoice.

Remember, Jesus Christ risen from the dead

of obedience

to all of God's laws.

And then, obviously, as if he

were with the imputation,

without first, so to

speak.

And I think, and I

know my good friend Roger in

the United States, that we can use to engage.

We can engage with them to say

there's a whole lot of loud music

and it's not anything really to do with Christmas.

But let me tell you, let me tell you really what the message of Christmas is.

And that is very because it is such

as like you're giving away like a 200

-page book on

a pocket if you're a man.

Yes, in fact, let me just take the opportunity to.

Really urge churches, pastors, and deacons, and those who are involved in purchasing

books that you give away, perhaps in your church lobby or the narthex as it's

commonly called, you can even put this book or booklet into

many track racks.

I would urge you to buy a case or more of these books that you can, if your church is

financially blessed enough, to give them away.

And if not, of course, you can sell them in your bookstores.

But I would buy these in high quantities because they are inexpensive enough and small enough

where they could bless a lot of people during this Christmas season.

And I just wanted to say you could go to cvbbs .com to do that.

Cvbbs .com.

Sorry about that.

And I hope anybody, or should I say, I hope nobody is viewing.

That as a commercialization.

I was going to say that Todd and Patty are doing a great work at

CVBBS.

If I ever came to America within a couple of

friendships with them over the years, and I really commend CVBBS.

They're doing a great work.

Yes, they are dear friends and dear Christian.

Brother and sister in Christ.

And I thank God for them.

We have another anonymous listener who asks, there is a conflict in

my household on whether to teach our grandchildren about the fairy

tale of Santa Claus.

Do you think that it is appropriate for a Christian to basically, when it boils down to it, lie to

little children about the existence of Santa Claus?

Or can we tell the story of Santa to little children as a fairy tale

and let them know that.

It is nothing more than that?

Yeah, you know, as a kid, I was devastated having been brought up,

and I was really

upset.

It comes in kids' presents.

A lot of people believe in him, but it's not true on your bed or under the

tree.

Great.

And of course, even Christians tell their.

Kids fairy tales and read them storybooks that are about fictitious

characters.

So I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

But I think that some Christians, and even, of course, mainly, I should say,

non -Christians blatantly lie to their children as if this is a real character who is

sneaking into their homes at night with toys.

If you could, for a minute, just summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners about

the 12 Days of Christmas book.

Morning and evening thoughts on Immanuel God with us.

Yeah, thanks, Chris, for the opportunity to share that.

It's a book that Roger and I really just felt people really need to be able to get hold of

and to be able to share with people, not only with unbelievers, but in

each one of these readings, there is an emphasis,

I'll tell you this, anybody who reads this, whether or not he or she is a believer or an unbeliever, is going to be led

graciously, eyes to the left.

Amen.

And you

can get the booklet.

Or book from cvbbs .com, cvbbs .com.

Thank you so much, Jim, for standing in for Roger Ellsworth.

And I hope that all of you who are listening, always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior

than you are a sinner.