August 8, 2017 Show with Dr. Paul D. Tripp on “Sex in a Broken World: How Christ Redeems What Sin Distorts” PLUS Mike Gaydosh on “More Literary Treasures Unearthed” AND Mark Chanski on “Be Joyful! (1 Thess. 5:16) Better than Weed or Xanax”

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century Gospel Minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

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Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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Now here's our host, Chris Arntzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this eighth day of August 2017, and I'm so delighted to have as a first -time guest for the first half hour,

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Dr. Paul D. Tripp. I've known about Dr. Tripp for many years, nearly as long as I have been a born -again believer in Jesus Christ.

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I first met him in the 1980s at a Bible conference that was conducted at what was then known as Calvary Baptist Church of Amityville, Long Island, New York, now known as Grace Reform Baptist Church of Long Island, New York, and I have seen

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Paul from time to time at different conferences and gatherings, and I know his brother,

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Ted Tripp, very well. In fact, many of you have heard my interviews with his brother,

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Ted Tripp, and his sister -in -law, Margie, but I am so delighted to have Paul on for the very first time, and today we are going to be discussing a book that is yet to be released, but will be out in the near future, titled,

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Sex and a Broken World, How Christ Redeems What Sin Distorts, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to Iron, Sharp, and Zion, Dr.

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Paul D. Tripp. It's great to be with you. And in studio with me is my co -host, the

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Reverend Buzz Taylor. Once again. And if anybody would like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com,

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com, and please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence, unless you're writing about a personal and private matter, which is obvious that that very well could be the case with a subject like this.

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We'll grant your desire to remain anonymous if that's the case, but if it's not about a personal matter, please give us at least your first name, city and state, and country of residence.

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And Paul D. Tripp is a pastor, author, conference speaker, and president of Paul Tripp Ministries.

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Why don't you briefly tell us exactly what you do with Paul Tripp Ministries? Well, basically my ministry is speaking and writing.

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My heart is in the local church, so everything we do is done to serve local church.

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I spend a lot of my time working as a pastor to pastors, and that keeps me pretty busy.

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I'm sure it does, and we'll be giving that contact information a little later for anybody who wanted to get into touch with Paul Tripp Ministries.

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But a lot has been written about sex, even in the

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Christian realm, and even in the evangelical realm, and even in the conservative, reformed, and Calvinist world.

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Why did you write Sex in a Broken World? What did you feel was missing that was already available in print?

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Well, I think the first reason is you just look around the culture, and we've just gone crazy. When it comes to sexuality, there's just no more sanity out there.

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You can barely look at your computer or watch television or look at a magazine or go to the mall without having your morals assaulted.

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And we've, as a culture, we've broken down every boundary when it comes to sexuality, thinking that we don't need those boundaries anymore, and we've gotten to the point where we've even gotten rid of the vocabulary.

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We don't even know how to talk about this anymore. And so that's the thing that really motivated the writing of the book.

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But as I wrote the book, I thought that not only is there confusion outside of the church, there's pretty massive confusion inside of the church about this whole thing called sex.

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And we all know, those of us who are Bible -believing Christians, we all know that the secular world, especially the liberal element of it, gets a lot about sex wrong.

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Not to say that there aren't even atheists out there that are living monogamous moral lives.

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They're happily married, many of them. They don't cheat on their wives. But by and large, the ideology about sex that the secular world has is typically completely wrong, if not unbiblical, anti -biblical and anti -Christian.

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But what is it that the church is getting wrong about sex? I think that the major error of the church is we've disconnected our conversation about sex to everything else the

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Bible says. We're trying to understand sex in isolation, and you can't.

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The Bible connects sex to God's existence. You can't understand sex unless you start with the fact that it was created by God.

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That's not just a theological thing, that's an intensely practical thing. You can't disconnect sex from God's glory.

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Like every other area in our life, we're meant to live in this area, not just for our pleasure, but for God's glory.

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You can't disconnect sex from God's purpose. If God created this thing, then

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He created it for a purpose, and living inside of that purpose is the only way to stay out of danger.

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You can't disconnect sex from God's revelation. He has specific things to say to us about the way that we function that help us to understand sexuality, and you can't accept, disconnect sex from God's plan of redemption.

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There's something broken inside of us that gets revealed by the way that we deal with sex.

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You could argue that everything the Bible says about life in a fallen world, everything the

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Bible says about us as sinners, everything the Bible says about the operation of God's grace, helps us to understand sex.

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The Bible is a manual on this area. It has much more things to say than just the passages that seem to talk about sex more directly.

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We have a listener in Mastic Beach, Long Island, New York, Tyler, who says,

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Do many Christians look down on sex as a bad thing when God created it to be enjoyed in a marriage between a man and a woman?

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Sure, you know, I think that is rooted in a misunderstanding of pleasure.

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God created in His wisdom and His goodness a very, very pleasurable world.

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This world is filled with pleasurable things, and He designed us with pleasure gates because He wanted us to enjoy and experience those pleasures, again because He's good.

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He finds pleasure in us experiencing pleasure. But pleasure can only properly be experienced inside of God's boundaries.

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Now what this means is sexual pleasure is a good God -glorifying thing.

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In fact, God is glorified when I experience inside of His boundaries sexual pleasure, because He designed me,

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He designed that pleasure, and He designed all of it for His glory. Yeah, isn't it not a sin even to deprive your marital partner, your spouse, of this pleasure?

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Sure it is. Sure it is, because I'm depriving my spouse of something that God created for their enjoyment, for their contentment, for their satisfaction.

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In fact, that experience is meant to mirror

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God's glory and the love that God has for us.

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Now, you have a chapter in your book titled, So Why Do We Do the

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Things We Do? I think it's an excellent question. Why do we? Well, look, if everybody asks three questions, it's impossible to be a human being and not ask these three questions.

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One, why do people do the things they do? Two, how does change take place in a person's life?

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And three, how can I be a tool of that kind of change? And what the Bible teaches us is that our primary struggle with right and wrong is not a struggle of behavior first, it's a struggle first of the heart, the heart being the control center of the human being.

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When Jesus talked about adultery, He said, you have heard of it said, you know, you must not commit adultery, but He said,

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I say to you, if a man looks on a woman with lust in his heart, he's already committed adultery.

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Now, here's what this means. Jesus says that the battleground of sex is not behavior.

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The battleground is the heart. If you give away your heart to lust, you will always lose the battle of behavior.

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And so the answer is, why do we do the things we do? Because what's in our hearts, your behavior is always directed by the thoughts and motives of your heart.

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So lasting change starts with the heart. And I would assume you would agree that taking that heart issue even further, even if somebody is monogamous, and even if somebody is faithful to their spouse, they can be selfish in regard to this area, can they not?

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Perhaps they are trying to force their wives to do things that their wives are very uncomfortable doing.

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Perhaps those things aren't even appropriate to do. But if you could comment on the way that we could even be sinful in our marriage beds, even when we're faithful.

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Sure, you know, I say this all the time, and I will continue to say it.

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If the only thing that motivates you in sexuality, even if you're in a

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Christian marriage, if the only thing that motivates you is your pleasure, you're a dangerous person and you'll misuse the body of your spouse.

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You see, what is ultimately meant to motivate me is the pleasure of God.

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That I want everything I do in the marriage bed to honor and please

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Him. Sex is inextricably an act of worship, because in sex

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I'm worshiping myself, I'm worshiping sex, or I'm worshiping God.

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And so yeah, it is possible to live in a

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Christian marriage in your sexual life in a way that's dishonoring to God and a sin against the person you're married to.

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Now, is sex in Christian marriage always intended for procreation?

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I mean, obviously, you have senior saints where it's an impossibility to procreate, or it would take a miracle like it happened with Abraham and Sarah.

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But is this for a young couple even to be always the primary goal?

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Again, I think that there is a relational love aspect, a mutual pleasure aspect that sexuality is about that means it's not just a mechanical process to birth children.

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There's a gorgeous intimacy of pleasure that God has designed for a marriage that's an integral part of the depth of the union of that marriage.

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Well, I want to touch on some of the things that you alluded to moments ago. First of all, perhaps if you could explain further about sex as an act of worship.

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Well, look, as a human being, I was designed to be a worshiper.

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Worship is not person activity, worship is my identity. That means my heart is always being ruled by the desire for something.

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And so as I come to sexuality, I come to sexuality as a worshiper.

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And so either I'm worshipping God there, and I want sex to please

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Him, I want to stay inside of those boundaries, and because God calls me to it, I want it to be an act of love for the person that I'm married to, or I'm worshipping myself, and all

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I want is my pleasure, and I will use you for my pleasure and walk away. Or I'm worshipping sex, and I'm obsessed by the next pleasurable thing that I think will satisfy me.

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It's just impossible for me to think about sexuality without thinking about worship.

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You're always expressing the worship of your heart in your sexuality.

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We have a listener all the way in Slovenia, Joe, who says, Thank you, brothers

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Chris and Paul for boldly addressing the most relevant topics in such tasteful and godly ways.

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What would be your advice about how a Christian married couple could be intentional about enriching their sexual attraction and intimacy with each other, other through scriptural study on the topic?

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I guess he means other than through scriptural study on the topic. So I would say a couple things.

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One, honest conversation. Talk to one another. Talk to one another about what is enjoyable to you in that relationship, and don't be afraid of pleasure.

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God designs to be pleasurable, and so having conversations as a husband and wife on how this relationship, this physical intimacy, can be more pleasurable, again, is a

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God -given thing. And Joe in Slovenia's second part of his question is,

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What and how would scripture teach us as we study the Bible about a healthy and God -honoring sexual togetherness?

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Well, it really gets me into the second part of,

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I think, what you were asking me, that first sex is, you have to understand sex is an act of worship.

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You have to secondly understand sex is an act of relationship. And in other words,

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I am there not just to satisfy myself, but to love you, to please you, to help you to enjoy, beautifully enjoy, something that God has created.

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Now, this is a little bit of a side, but I think it's important. If all I am motivated by is my pleasure, and I use my wife as an object for my pleasure, sex hasn't been an act of relationship for me.

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I have little defense against the computer that could give me that same pleasure without having to be involved with her.

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It makes sense to me that because we've not treated sex in a relational way inside of the church, that so many of our men are addicted to internet pornography.

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But if sex has been an act of relationship, it's been a process of mutual love.

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If it's relationship that makes it work, then the computer is weird.

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It doesn't fit because that's not about relationship at all. Thank you,

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Joe, and keep spreading the word about Iron Trump and Zion Radio in Slovenia and beyond.

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Is sex about obedience as well? Sure, this is where the boundaries of pleasure are so important.

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Think about when the law was given. God had redeemed his children out of Egypt, but they didn't have a clue how to live.

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And so the law was an act of God's love. It's this is how to stay out of danger.

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This is how to live in relationship with me. This is how not to harm one another. You cannot, in any form of pleasure, you cannot destroy

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God's boundaries or you'll get into trouble. You cannot eat whatever you want to eat, as much as you want to eat whenever you want to eat, or you will kill yourself.

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And you cannot pursue sexual pleasure without boundaries, or you will get yourself into danger.

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You will not only dishonor God, but you will destroy your relationship and maybe even yourself.

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And so I have to go into that like sexuality, knowing that God is smarter than me, infinitely smarter than me, and being willing to be obedient.

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Surrender my desires to his rules. Well, it's interesting that you ask that because we have an anonymous listener in New York, and we tend to get this question every time that we discuss marriage or sex or anything like that.

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The anonymous listener asks, are there any boundaries in the marriage bed as long as the only one that you are having sexual intimacy with is your spouse?

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Yes, again, the boundaries are

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God's glory and love of the other person. God's glory means that I want him to be pleased, and he's not pleased if my behavior there is just driven by obsessive, selfish self -pleasure.

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As in any other life, a place in life, Jesus came so that we would not live for ourselves, but for him.

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Secondly, I'm not free to force the other person to do things that they're not sure about, that they're uncomfortable with.

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Maybe it's hurtful to them just because they belong to me and my pleasure is at stake.

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That's a violation. Now, the Bible doesn't give us a red -letter list of exactly what we can do inside the marriage bed, but listen, there's an awful lot of hurt and harm that's being done in Christian marriages because selfish demands are being made of another person.

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And here I am, I'm naked next to you, all of my defenses are gone, and yet I cannot rest because I know that you are going to be selfish there and you're going to do things that are troublesome to me.

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That's just not Christian marriage, and that surely is not God -glorifying sex. And I'm assuming that you would think that areas,

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I mean, this is a bizarre and kinky world that we're living in, and in fact, bizarre and kinky things have been going on for millennia, but you have people that may want to do things that may cause bodily harm, might even cause serious harm, even if it's mutual.

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Wouldn't you think that something like that would be prohibited from a marriage bed? Well, sure.

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God doesn't want me to harm my body. Again, the way that I treat my body is meant to be an act of worship.

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This body doesn't belong to me, it belongs to my Creator, and I'm meant to be a good steward of my physical health.

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I should do anything that endangers my body or the body of another person.

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I mean, that's horrific to think about. We have an anonymous listener in South Central Pennsylvania who asks, is it wrong to ever force even your wife to be involved in appropriate marital behavior if she has been she has been depriving you of this act?

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It's forced is the operative word. It is wrong to force a person to do something that they are not ready to do as an act of love.

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How is forcing someone to do something an act of love? Now, I think you want to have honest conversations about that.

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I think that you may need to seek counseling help with that. I think it's good for you to bring a person to a better understanding and a greater level of comfortability.

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That's a loving thing to do. But listen, what is the definition of leadership in Scripture?

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It's not arrogant, demanding, forcing. The definition of leadership is servanthood.

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You're called as a husband to love your wife like Christ loved the Church and gave

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Himself up for it. I'm willing to be patient, I'm willing to deprive myself of things that I think are okay in order to be used of God to bring you to a more

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Biblical understanding of sexuality so we can enjoy that relationship together.

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I don't know if you remember Harold Camping, Dr. Tripp. We're all in glory now.

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Well, I could still remember vividly him counseling women that would call into his program who would say that they are not willing to participate in sexual relations with their husbands until they repented of ongoing adulterous activities, including with prostitutes.

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Mr. Camping would chide them, telling them that it is their duty to have sex with their husbands, even if they contract

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AIDS and die. They should never be depriving their husbands of sexual relations, even if they know they are continuing in an unrepentant, promiscuous sexual activity.

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What is your response to that kind of a situation? Well, I mean, I think if I like Scriptural teaching, again, the three big boundaries of sexuality are worship, relationship, and obedience.

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And so because I'm worshiping God, I want to respond to that person in the way that God calls me to respond to them.

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What does God call me to? Humility, gentleness, patience, forgiveness, understanding, mercy, the list goes on.

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I want to know, I have to know that the thing that I'm called to do in sex is love the other person.

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I love them in the way that we have this relationship. And then obedience.

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I have to look at all the things that God has called me to and make sure that in sexuality,

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I have an obedient heart that's surrendering to God's greater purpose, not just to the draw of my pleasure.

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So going back to that same question, though, some might think that in order to be obedient to God, the wife still has to remain actively sexual with her husband, even though he refuses to repent of this ongoing extramarital activity.

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Are you saying that that would be inappropriate for a wife to withdraw for a season and awaiting repentance from her husband?

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Well, I just think that we have to be very careful here, because I can't answer that question in generality.

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If I was sitting across from a couple and there were sexual problems, the wife maybe was withdrawing her part,

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I would want to know so much about the dynamics of that relationship and how that breach needs to be repaired.

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I just think that often the general answers we give by their generality are just unwise.

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Do I think a wife should use sex as a tool? No, I don't. Do I think that withholding sex is necessarily going to lead a man to repentance?

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No, I don't. But am

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I concerned that this woman is living with the hardship of having, let's say, an adulterous husband who could care less about her but demands her to be a sexual object?

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I'm very, very concerned about that. So there's just a whole lot of questions I would want to ask before I would give just a general answer that people may misunderstand and use as a weapon, something that builds a relationship.

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Yeah, very wise. Well, if you could conclude the program, this went by like a bullet, as I knew it would, because usually my interviews are an hour or two hours, but if you could conclude with a summary of what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners in regard to sex in a broken world.

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Well, I think this, that we have to run away from the insanity of our culture toward the sanity of God's work and thank

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God for the pleasures that he has created for us. One of those is human sexuality, but know that that thing will only be pleasurable and enjoyable in the way that God designed it to be when we stay inside of God's boundaries.

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There are husbands that need to ask themselves, do I worship sex too much?

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There are wives that need to ask themselves, do I use sex as a tool to get what

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I want in a relationship? And all of us need to ask the question, do we approach this area with obedient hearts?

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If we're doing those things, we're going to be able to enjoy this beautiful, pleasurable thing that God ordained.

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Well, I want to thank you so much for being our guest today, Dr. Tripp, and I hope you come back soon again and come back often.

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And for anybody who wants to get a hold of this book, which is not yet in print, they can go to crossway .org to stay in touch about sex in a broken world, how

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Christ redeems what sin distorts. You can also go to paultripp .com,

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and Tripp is spelled with two Ps, that's two Ps as in Peter, paultripp .com, paultripp .com.

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Thank you so much, brother. And as I said, we look forward to your return and your frequent return to Iron Tripp and Zion Radio.

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Thank you. God bless your work. Thank you. And coming up, don't go away, because we have Mike Gadosz coming on the program.

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Mike Gadosz, who is the founder of Solid Ground Christian Books, he's going to be on the program for a half hour today.

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And then following Mike Gadosz, we are going to have another visit from Pastor Mark Chansky of Harbor Reform Baptist Church of Holland, Michigan.

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He is going to be discussing the book Be Joyful from 1

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Thessalonians 5, 16, Better Than Weed or Xanax. That was a subtitle that Pastor Chansky came up with, so don't blame me for that.

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But we're looking forward to having Pastor Mark Chansky again on the final hour of the program.

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But as I said, coming up very shortly will be our friend and sponsor, Mike Gadosz, founder of Solid Ground Christian Books.

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So don't go away, God willing, we'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

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Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Welcome back, and we're going to be talking more about Solid Ground Christian Books in just a moment, but one thing

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I forgot to mention during my half -hour interview with Dr. Paul Tripp is that he is one of many speakers at the upcoming

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G3 Conference in Atlanta, Georgia, January 18th through the 20th, to be precise, 2018.

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So if you want more information about the G3 Conference, where Paul Tripp and many other speakers will be on the roster, go to g3conference .com,

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g3conference .com, and the theme next year is

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Knowing God, a Biblical Understanding of Discipleship, and we'll be giving you more details about that midway through today's program, but it's my honor and privilege now to welcome back one of my dearest friends, my first pastor, after being born from above by the grace and mercy of God, and now ever since it's relaunching, one of my key sponsors of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

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It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron, Mike Gaydosh. Thanks, Chris.

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Good to be on with you again. It's great to have you back on, and in studio with me again is my co -host, the

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Rev. Buzz Taylor. Hello again. Hey, Buzz. How are you, my friend? Just great, thanks.

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Good to have you back. Well, I understand, Mike, that you are relocating from Alabama to Florida, and because of that, you are having an enormous sale there at Solid Ground Christian Books.

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We are. We are in the process of packing up all of our belongings and getting ready to head to Port St.

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Lucie, which will be about 25 minutes from the ocean, about a half hour north from where one of our sons lives and about 45 minutes north of where the other one lives.

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So we're excited about being able to be close to our children and grandchildren, and Solid Ground, we've had many people have been asking, is

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Solid Ground closing? In fact, the other day I made the mistake of sending out a notice saying that closing is on the 18th, and I meant the closing of the house, not the closing of the business.

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And so I had somebody panic and said, I didn't realize you're closing. I said, no, no, no.

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I said, we're closing on the house. The business is going with me. So yeah, no, Solid Ground will continue by the grace of God.

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It's been over 16 years now, and I'm very thankful for the opportunity to continue to serve.

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And yeah, basically what we're trying to do is trying to lighten the load as much as possible, as we have hundreds of boxes of books that I have to pack into our now 26 -foot

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U -Haul trailer, or truck, I should say, and I'll be driving that down Lord willing on the 19th, which is a

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Saturday. And we will actually have to close down shop, at least as far as shipping books is concerned.

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We can still take orders, but we won't be able to ship from Thursday the 17th until probably at least

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Wednesday, whatever that would be, the 23rd of August.

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So we'll be down for about a week and then back up shipping again. But yeah, I'm trying to get through some...

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We've been able to sell a large number of sets and of volumes that we have been discounting significantly.

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We do have one set of John Calvin's New Testament Commentary set that was done by Eerdmans many years ago, and it's a really, really nice set.

38:32

I'm reluctant to even sell this last set because I've always enjoyed having it myself on my bookshelf.

38:39

But right now it's a time for us to part with it. Many people are asking $1 ,000 for these sets because they're now so rare.

38:48

And we have a very nice set that we're selling for $250, and we just have that one set left.

38:54

So if people are interested in getting Calvin's New Testament Commentaries in 12 volumes, what

39:00

I like about it compared to the 22 volume set, they're just much more normal sized volumes.

39:08

It's not like a lot of times these larger sets, the volumes are very awkward to be carrying around with you.

39:16

This particular set is a very, very comfortably sized set. But anyway, that's one of the things that we have that we've been trying to sell.

39:25

Well, perhaps another good thing for you to talk about, at least briefly, is a description of Solid Ground Christian Books because, as I may have told you, something quite remarkable has been occurring over the last couple of months.

39:40

There seems to be a dam that has busted wide open. And I'm hearing from new listeners to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio that I've never heard from before, who have never submitted questions before, who

39:53

I don't know who they are. They're coming from all over the world. Very encouraging emails, emails from pastors.

40:02

I received an email that a missionary in Eastern Europe was brought into the

40:08

Doctrines of Sovereign Grace, and he attributed this conversion, if you will, or this enlightenment in his mind and understanding of the

40:20

Doctrines of Grace to, in part at least, Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. So there might be a number of people who don't even know anything about Solid Ground Christian Books.

40:29

Why don't you tell our listeners about that? Well, Solid Ground began in 2001, when my wife and I relocated to Birmingham, Alabama.

40:38

I had begun publishing, as you know, Chris, when I was pastoring in Long Island back in 1990.

40:46

The first book that we published at Calvary Press was Thoughts for Young Men by J .C.

40:52

Ryle. That has gone through many, many different printings, and we have sold tens of thousands of copies of that book that has gone all over the world.

41:05

That was the beginning that caused me to see the value of bringing back into print some of these buried treasures that had been lost for many, many years.

41:16

Another very popular book that we brought back and gave a new cover and a new life to was

41:22

Elizabeth Prentice's book Stepping Heavenward. That one has also gone through many different printings.

41:30

Probably the third book that has been the most popular and has been most used of the

41:36

Lord since we started Solid Ground is A Pastor's Sketches by Ichabod Spencer.

41:42

Spencer was a pastor in Northampton, Massachusetts, and also in Brooklyn, New York.

41:49

At the end of his ministry, he wrote a volume of sketches, which is a sketchbook of his pastoral ministry dealing with both sinners and saints, dealing with the unconverted as well as dealing with converted people who were struggling in various areas of assurance and depression and a variety of other things.

42:12

There is really no book quite like it. A Pastor's Sketches has been a required reading at Southern Seminary for many years.

42:22

The hundreds and hundreds of pastors who are now pastoring were trained with the book

42:28

A Pastor's Sketches to teach them about both pastoral theology and evangelism.

42:34

That is the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky, where Al Mohler is the president, correct?

42:40

That's correct. And men like Tom Nettles and others, Tom has recently retired from his full professorship, but he and many others were men who were involved in helping to get that book back known again, and we're very, very thankful.

42:59

We've had the support of Solid Ground, of many godly men through the years who have been a help to us.

43:05

In fact, as I look at my website, I realize that a couple of the men that are on here as men who have been supportive and stood behind Solid Ground have just recently gone on to be with the

43:19

Lord. One was Richard Denham, who was a missionary to Brazil for over 50 years, and Errol Hulse just recently, this past week, went home to be with the

43:31

Lord. I had the privilege of having lunch with Richard Denham at your design.

43:37

You weren't around or something when he was visiting Long Island, and you asked me to take him out to dinner, actually, not lunch, it was dinner.

43:43

I can still remember that very vividly. And also, of course, I remember vividly the wonderful time that our congregation had when

43:52

Errol Hulse visited the States and preached at what was then Calvary Baptist Church of Amityville.

43:58

Yeah, and I got to spend 10 days with Errol over in Cameroon, West Africa, in one of the most memorable times that I've ever had ministry -wise.

44:10

I never met a man who loved Christ and people more than Errol did.

44:15

A man of incredible depth of prayer and breadth of prayer.

44:20

He literally prayed for the world. He had a notebook that he kept with him that he prayed on a regular basis for countries of the world, for pastors in other parts of the world.

44:33

He was a remarkable man. But I've had some just great men that have stood beside and behind me, men like Errol Blackburn, David Dykstra, Peter Jeffrey in Wales, Conrad M.

44:47

Bayway in Zambia, Jeff Thomas from Aberystwyth. These are all men that have stood by my side with regards to this publishing work.

44:56

And my own pastor, Todd Wilson, at Grace Covenant Baptist in Birmingham. David Vaughan, the missionary to France.

45:03

David was the man that was really responsible for the publishing of, or the reprinting of a pastor's sketches.

45:11

He was the man who first discovered it or rediscovered it. And so he was a great help to me early on as well.

45:21

But Solid Ground is primarily, there's really two thrusts. One is to bring back, to print old works that have been buried.

45:30

But a more recent thrust has been to bring in, to print new books that living authors have written.

45:38

And you, of course, have been interviewing these living authors for me on my behalf.

45:44

One, of course, is James White. I've published four of James's books. Pulpit Crimes was the first book that I did with James, and I've published three others.

45:54

And then also, you've recently had John Samson. Samson did the

46:00

Twelve Whatabouts, which is a book that answers questions or objections to the doctrine of election.

46:07

And then recently, he did the Five Solas, which is on, of course, the

46:12

Five Solas of the Reformation. And R .C. Sproul wrote a very warm and glowing commendation for that.

46:19

He really did. It was very encouraging to John and to me to see that. It was a letter that was personally written to him in the old -fashioned way, not an email.

46:31

It was an actual letter. That's the only way he does it. R .C. Sproul doesn't use a computer. Well, it's a precious thing to be able to have something like that nowadays, to have an actual physical letter with a signature on it.

46:44

And that I know John Gotten was thrilled with the very, very kind and encouraging words that he received for his small book, the

46:54

Five Solas. And you've also recently had Kurt Smith on, and Kurt's a dear friend who has recently done both the book on the heritage of Georgia Baptists.

47:07

Now, is that what you spoke with him about the other day? Yes. The heritage of...

47:13

The gospel heritage. The gospel heritage of Georgia Baptists. And he has received some good feedback from that volume, as well as he's been getting...

47:24

He and Brandon Smith have both been receiving some attacks from people in Georgia as well.

47:32

They're not happy about the obvious Calvinism that permeates the books.

47:40

But as Brandon was sharing with one man on the phone the other day who called to thank him for the book, but also to challenge some things.

47:48

And Brandon just said, well, the facts are stubborn things. And you go back to the beginning of the

47:54

Georgia Baptists, and all of those men were solid five -point Calvinists. But they were also church planters, and they were evangelists.

48:03

And dozens and dozens of churches were planted by these men, which of course flies right in the face of the argument that's used against the doctrines of grace, that it kills evangelism and church planting.

48:16

Because the very existence of the Georgia Baptist Association is rooted in the doctrines of grace.

48:24

And tell us... I won't go back over that, because you already spent a couple... Tell us about the Ron Gleason book on the

48:30

Second Amendment. Well, Ron has written a book that is a very important book in our day.

48:38

I'm sure it's going to be controversial, but Ron has thoroughly researched this book on the

48:46

Second Amendment from the perspective of a Christian. And Ron has done just a masterful job of looking at history, at scripture, and I think that we're still working on that.

49:01

It's probably not going to come out until sometime this fall. I was hoping sometime in late summer, but with being in the move, everything is getting pushed back at least a few weeks, if not a month.

49:15

So I would anticipate having it available sometime this fall. Well, that's going to be right around the corner, and Buzz wants you to tell him the title of that book.

49:23

The title? What was that book? Oh, I knew you were going to ask me that. I'm sorry,

49:28

I have to plead ignorance at the moment. The author is Ron Gleason, and you were co -hosting with me when we had

49:34

Ron on the program. That's right. So actually, you should be the one that has the title, not me. I do have, let's see, wait one second, if you hold on a second.

49:46

In fact, you know, I'm not sure that we've actually, I'm not certain that we've actually come up with an absolute rock solid, well,

49:55

I guess, yeah, I guess the title from what I recall and what it looks like here is the

50:00

Christian view of the Second Amendment. So it really is, it's sort of a title that is, it is what it is.

50:08

We may work on another title or a subtitle, but we've had some very good endorsements.

50:18

W .R. Downing, William Downing is a pastor in California. Oh yeah, I've had him on the program. I did his very first interview ever, he's told me.

50:27

Really? Yeah. Wow, that's not surprising. You get a lot of firsts. Not all good, but for the most part.

50:38

Let's see, we have here, this is what Bill Downing said about the book by Ron. He said, finish tonight the book on the

50:45

Christian and the Second Amendment by Dr. Gleason, a very broad and thorough presentation, which contains much research, which was new to me.

50:53

I have read some of the works in his bibliography. His treatment of the biblical issues is superb. His research into history and culture is very valuable.

51:02

I recommend this book as about the best I have read, and from a consistent Christian perspective.

51:09

I hope that you publish this necessary book. I can highly recommend it.

51:14

Amen. By the way, you got to make sure that a lot our brethren who even view doctrine nearly identically to the way we do, you got to get some of our brethren in the

51:27

UK to read this book, because obviously the Second Amendment doesn't really apply to them, but the attitude towards it does.

51:35

There are many of our brethren in the UK who really are vehemently opposed to the

51:41

Christians here in the States who have this passion to defend the Second Amendment. It's very unusual to me.

51:47

Yeah, well, things on the other side of the pond are different. They see things differently, and that's fine.

51:56

I mean, we can disagree, but I think it's important, at the very least, to be able to set forth the biblical defense as well as the historical defense of bearing arms, and I realize it is a controversial subject, and I've not finished reading the entire book yet, so I still have some work to do myself before selling this book, but I'm very confident with Bill Downing's very strong endorsement.

52:30

Bill does not give out endorsements easily. He's a very thoughtful man.

52:37

He gave one to me. Well, there's a reason for that, Chris, and Buzz and I know the answer to that.

52:45

We will not share that on the air. Had to do with a shipment of bills wrapped in cellophane.

52:53

We're not going to go there. We do have a listener in Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, Gordy, who has a question for you.

53:00

Any possibility of publishing Samuel Rutherford's work An Examination of Arminianism?

53:08

Yeah, there's always a possibility. Whatever we can get our hands on, if it's available for me, if I can get my hands on it, we can do it.

53:19

If Gordy is able to point me in the direction where I can see it somewhere online,

53:26

Google Books or whatever, is that the name of it? I mean, I know Owen has done something similar to that.

53:32

I was not familiar with the fact that Rutherford had. That's exactly the way he typed his email, so I have no idea.

53:39

Okay, so what did he say the title was again? Samuel Rutherford's Examination of Arminianism, I believe.

53:46

I already clicked out of the question, but it was something like that. Examination of Arminianism by Rutherford.

53:53

Okay, I'll look it up and see. But you tell him to just send me an email, mike .sgcb

54:03

at gmail .com and see what we can come up with.

54:08

I'm always open to doing things like that. The Memoirs of Buzz would be my experience with Chris Arnson.

54:25

Yeah, well, at least I know three people who would buy it. My mother would buy one too,

54:30

I'm sure. Well, she was the one I was counting on. I guarantee you she wouldn't read it either.

54:41

But anyway, we've got to close now. If you could summarize what you most want our audience to remember today.

54:47

Well, to remember that Jesus Christ is indeed our only hope in life and in death.

54:53

Everything that we do, everything that we publish, we do as a desire to be able to honor

55:00

Christ, to seek to manifest His glory. And our sales are not about making money, it's about being able to provide people with books that will change their lives for Christ.

55:17

Amen. Well, as all of you have been hearing every day, sometimes multiple times a day during Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, you can find out more about Solid Ground Christian Books at solid -ground -books .com,

55:34

solid -ground -books .com. Mike Adash, thank you so much for not only being a sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, but for being a lifelong friend.

55:44

And I look forward to many years, God willing, of friendship between the two of us. God bless you too, brother.

55:50

I look forward to seeing you at G3, Lord willing. Amen. I'm looking forward to that too. Take care, bud. And coming up, we have our final guest today.

56:00

We have the pastor of Harbor Reform Baptist Church in Holland, Michigan, Mark Chansky, who's going to be joining us on the subject of joy.

56:11

So don't go away. God willing, we'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

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Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune in to A Visit to the Pastor's Study every

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59:18

Pastor's Study by calling in with your questions. Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.

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That's www .chefexclusive .com. Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, For am

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I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man,

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I would not be a servant of Christ. Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, Pastor of Providence Baptist Church. We are a

01:00:51

Reformed Baptist Church, and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689. We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

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We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do than how men view these things.

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That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the Apostle's priority, it must not be ours either.

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We believe, by God's grace, that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man, and to be vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us, and to build up the body of Christ in truth and love.

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Or even on sermonaudio .com. Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:01:58

Welcome back. Before we head into our discussion with our final guest today,

01:02:04

Mark Chansky, pastor of the Harbor Reformed Baptist Church of Holland, Michigan, we have some important announcements to make from some of our sponsors.

01:02:14

First of all, the Word of Truth Church and Long Island Spurgeon Fellowship in Farmingville, Long Island, New York, present the

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Gospel of the Reformation, a 500th anniversary celebration that will be held on Friday, September 29th, and Saturday, September 30th in Farmingville, Long Island at the

01:02:35

Word of Truth Church on 1055 Portion Road in Farmingville, Long Island, New York.

01:02:41

And speakers include a very dear friend of mine, Dr. Tony Costa. If you don't know Dr. Tony Costa yet, you've got to get to know him and the remarkable gifts that the

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He is one of the speakers at this celebration. Also included on the roster are

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Pastor Caleb Bunch, Pastor Bruce Bennett, Pastor Dave Corson, all local Long Island, New York pastors.

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And then on the very next day, right after that, on the 1st of October, the

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Dr. Tony Costa at their morning worship service. That's Sunday, October 1st at 11 a .m.

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And that is at Hope Reformed Baptist Church on 3239 Route 112, Suite 1 in Medford, New York.

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For more details, go to HopeReformedLI .net.

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That's HopeReformedLI, standing for LongIsland .net. Or you could call them at 631 -696 -5711.

01:04:23

631 -696 -5711. And then coming up in November, the

01:04:34

Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals are having their Quaker Town Conference on Reformed Theology at the

01:04:42

Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quaker Town, Pennsylvania, November 17th through the 18th.

01:04:48

The theme is For Still Our Ancient Foe, a reference to Satan from that classic

01:04:53

Reformational hymn by Martin Luther, A Mighty Fortress. And the speakers at this conference include

01:04:59

Kent Hughes, Peter Jones, Tom Nettles, Dennis Cahill, and Scott Oliphant. If you would like to register for the

01:05:06

Quaker Town Conference on Reformed Theology, go to AllianceNet .org, AllianceNet .org,

01:05:12

click on Events, and then click on Quaker Town Conference on Reformed Theology. And then coming up in January, as I mentioned earlier, right after I interviewed

01:05:22

Dr. Paul David Tripp, the G3 Conference returns to Atlanta, Georgia on the theme

01:05:30

Knowing God, a Biblical Understanding of Discipleship. And that, as I said, is being held from the 18th through the 20th of January.

01:05:38

There will be a Spanish edition on January 17th, and those sessions from the 18th through the 20th are in the

01:05:46

English language. And the English conference includes Stephen Lawson, Vody Baucom, Phil Johnson, Keith Getty, H .B.

01:05:54

Charles Jr., Tim Challies, Josh Bice, my dear friend Dr. James R.

01:05:59

White of Alpha and Omega Ministries, Tom Askell of Founders Ministries, Anthony Mathenia, Michael Kruger, David Miller, Todd Friel of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio, Derek Thomas, Martha Peace, and the aforementioned

01:06:12

Dr. Paul David Tripp. If you would like to register for this conference, go to G3Conference .com,

01:06:19

G3Conference .com. And if you register for any of these events, or even if you just contact the organizations running these events, please let them know that you heard about those events from Chris Arnzen at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:06:35

And now comes that uncomfortable time again. My daily discomfort comes from the awkward moment of me asking you for money.

01:06:45

The advertisers that keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air have urged me to make these public appeals to you for donations because they know that the need is great.

01:06:57

And if you really do love this program and want it to remain on the air, we really need for you to respond with your generosity.

01:07:06

And always keep in mind, as I try to remember to say daily, I never want anybody to be siphoning money out of their regular giving to their local church.

01:07:16

And I never want anybody to be taking food off of their family's dinner table if they are really struggling to make ends meet.

01:07:23

But if you are blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands, because those two things are commands, if you can bless

01:07:32

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, which is not a command, we would love for you to do so if you are blessed enough to keep your commitments to God in providing for your church and home and still bless

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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio with any giving that you can afford to give. You go to ironsharpensironradio .com,

01:07:53

click on support, you'll be given an address where you can mail a check for any amount made to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and we would love to receive that.

01:08:02

We thank all of you who have already begun to send in checks, some of you even monthly, and some of you even bimonthly, and I cannot express in English words how much

01:08:14

I am grateful to you and grateful to God for you. Thank you so much. And if you'd like to advertise with us, send an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com,

01:08:24

chrisarnson at gmail .com, put advertising in the subject line and we can discuss how you can promote your business, your corporation, your church, your parachurch organization, your special event, your professional practice, whether you're a lawyer, a doctor, a chiropractor, a dentist, whatever it is that you do, as long as what you do or what you're promoting is compatible with the theology expressed on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

01:08:52

You don't have to agree with me identically, but obviously we wouldn't want to be promoting something that we do not believe in here at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, so we would love to hear from you if you would like to advertise.

01:09:04

Now we are returning to our live interview with our guest,

01:09:12

Mark Chansky, he is pastor of the Harbor Reform Baptist Church of Holland, Michigan, a teacher of hermeneutics for Reformed Baptist Seminary in Sacramento, California, and we are discussing

01:09:23

Be Joyful from 1 Thessalonians 5 .16, better than weed or Xanax, and it's my pleasure and honor to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Mark Chansky.

01:09:35

Hi Chris, always a pleasure to be at Iron Sharpens Iron. And that's always a pleasure to hear that my guest, especially one as beloved as you,

01:09:45

Brother Chansky, I love hearing that word of encouragement that you enjoy this program, and I don't know if you heard me mention to Mike Gaydosch earlier, but we are getting new listeners contacting me every single day or nearly every single day from all over the world.

01:10:00

For those of the listeners, for those in the audience who have never heard of you before, have never heard any of your previous interviews, why don't you tell our listeners something briefly about Harbor Reform Baptist Church of Holland, Michigan.

01:10:12

Well, back in the late 80s and early 90s, I was a pastor at the church in Grand Rapids, Reformed Baptist Church of Grand Rapids, and we had planted churches in the

01:10:22

U .S. and in Canada, then we thought, let's plant one nearby, about 45 to 50 minutes away.

01:10:29

So we took a core group of folks who were traveling from the further west Michigan area, some of God's finest, and in 93, we began meeting.

01:10:38

We constituted in 1994, and the Lord's been gracious and merciful to us since then.

01:10:45

He's cared for us. He's added to us. Many years ago, he gave us a very expensive building, which was above and beyond what we would ever have been able to pay for ourselves, but he opened up the windows of heaven, and he's been merciful.

01:11:01

In fact, even just to mention this coming weekend, we have our Midsummer's Lord's Day. It's a youth day.

01:11:07

We've had it for about 17 years now. We've got Pastor Mike Waters coming from Akron, Ohio.

01:11:13

He'll be with us for the Sunday school, the a .m. and the p .m., and he'll be speaking on hope in a hopeless world.

01:11:21

So I invite all the young people in the Midwest area here, come on along. We'd love to have you for the day.

01:11:27

Praise God, and we will, of course, be giving contact information toward the end of the program.

01:11:34

Well, you wanted to speak about joy today, and perhaps you could give a definition of joy, because that may seem like a really silly question, but as you know, there is a difference between happiness and joy.

01:11:48

There's a difference between those that are living hedonistic lives purely to please themselves and to bring happiness to their hearts, which is always, when it's outside of God, is going to be a temporary happiness.

01:12:04

But if you could tell us exactly what you mean by joy. Yeah, that's why I gave you that subheading there.

01:12:10

Be joyful, from 1 Thessalonians 5 .16. Subheading was better than weed or Xanax.

01:12:17

Because we live in a society and in a culture where in the hearts of people there's a lot of hunger and thirst and unrest and anxiety, and they're looking for things like satisfaction and tranquility and refreshment and exhilaration in other places, oftentimes in substances like weed or some kind of psychotropic drug that may be available to them.

01:12:46

In fact, just recently, I heard a testimony of a young man who admitted he was addicted to marijuana because it brought him into a satisfactory emotional state, but he realized the bankruptcy of that.

01:13:03

He's come to and he speaks of the sense of peace, the sense of joy that he has that he didn't know previously.

01:13:13

Another guy, I heard him give his testimony just recently as well, and he talked about how he was a very angry man and how he had a lot of resentment pent up, and he said he was ripped on Xanax every day, but when he came to the

01:13:30

Lord Jesus Christ, there was that sense of satisfaction. The raging in his heart was calmed.

01:13:37

He was given a sense of refreshment to be in the Lord Jesus, and there is a sense of true joy and satisfaction.

01:13:44

It's not only a matter of we have an inheritance in heaven that'll never perish, spoil, and fade for eternity, but there's something that we can have here and now.

01:13:55

I think we can fight the pleasure of the world, which is counterfeit, with the pleasure of Christ, which is the real deal.

01:14:03

It's got depth. It's lasting. It's not a mud puddle that is shallow and temporary.

01:14:10

So, I think the joy that we can have in Christ is so crucial for this era, for this season in our culture and time.

01:14:18

Well, I'd like to read 1 Thessalonians, chapter 5, verses 16 through 18. Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks, for this is

01:14:30

God's will for you in Christ Jesus. These are often some hard words to swallow when we are experiencing something really devastating in our lives.

01:14:43

We may have just discovered that we have terminal illness, or perhaps somebody that we cherish, perhaps even our own spouse or child has been diagnosed with an inoperable tumor or a terminal illness, or it could be a host of other things.

01:15:01

People are going through divorces. They've discovered their spouses have been cheating on them for years, and they're just totally devastated.

01:15:08

I heard that that could even be a worse thing to hear than you're dying.

01:15:14

I mean, there are all kinds of things that put Christians through seasons of depression, perhaps even doubt.

01:15:24

How can we rejoice always in the midst of something like this? Well, I think what you say is so true.

01:15:31

That's why I think substance abuse is so common today in our society. You do have people who have dysfunctional families, and broken marriages, and difficulties at the workplace, and health problems, and again turning to this whole opioid crisis, and turning to weed, or turning to other psychotropic drugs.

01:15:56

I think for all of us, we battle with this yo -yo experience in our life where, even for me,

01:16:04

I can remember when the Detroit Tigers were a big deal in my life, and when the

01:16:10

Tigers would win on a Friday evening, I can wake up on a

01:16:16

Saturday morning exhilarated because there was a walk -off home run. But on the other hand...

01:16:21

So that was like twice that happened to you? I'm only kidding. Chris, we had some great days over here in Detroit just because we're in a downturn.

01:16:30

Don't give up on us. But then there's the other days when there's a walk -off home run hit against us, and then we're put out of the playoffs, and I can find myself in a sense of downcast moodiness.

01:16:44

At least that might be until midday when some positive information comes.

01:16:51

Maybe my son tells me, hey dad, I made the varsity basketball team. Well, then there can be this sense of exhilaration until maybe the evening when

01:17:02

I come home, and it's raining, and maybe the sump pump hasn't worked, and I've got flooding in my basement.

01:17:09

Now I'm downcast again. We can be this yo -yo experience, not rejoicing always, but back and forth from dejection and back up to exhilaration.

01:17:21

I think the Word of God calls us to more stability, and I think we can when it says rejoice always, not just some of the time.

01:17:31

Now does rejoicing, you know, people will automatically think if you say the word rejoice, you are automatically, the typical person is

01:17:39

I'm assuming, automatically going to have a picture in their head of somebody with a toothy grin, a beaming smile, elated, jumping up and down, clapping their hands, perhaps howling with excitement, hooting and hollering shouts of joy, but is rejoicing always pictured that way?

01:18:00

No, I don't think so. I think scripturally rejoicing can even be in the context of mourning. In the

01:18:05

Beatitudes we're told to rejoice and be glad for great is the reward in heaven, but also earlier it says in Matthew 5, 4, blessed are those who mourn for they will be comforted.

01:18:17

So it seems that even mourning over sin can be a experience that's connected with rejoicing always.

01:18:30

I don't think we're supposed to be always happy -go -lucky. I think it doesn't call us to always have a peppy smile.

01:18:39

I think one of the old Puritans says those who mourn for sin do most rejoice in the

01:18:46

Lord. Think of that woman in Luke chapter 7 when she was washing the feet of the

01:18:51

Lord Jesus with her tears and wiping with her hair, and the

01:18:57

Lord Jesus says those who are forgiven much love much. Though she was mourning over the sense of her sin, she was rejoicing over the fact that her sins had been forgiven.

01:19:10

I think it's true even for a Christian. Manton has said this, a poor Christian is glad when his heart can melt for sin.

01:19:20

Sometimes one of the worst burdens that a Christian has is that he's hardened to the sense of his sin, but sometimes a serious humiliation over sin makes our riches in Christ to be sweet and delightful, and that's far better than a day in Disneyland.

01:19:38

Reverend Buzz Taylor has a question or comment. Yeah, I was just on those same lines.

01:19:44

You know, I think we have to come to the place where sometimes we get to thinking that we deserved the forgiveness, therefore we don't really rejoice as much in it, but if we realize, no,

01:19:56

I don't deserve anything good from God, everything we get, and even when we come, when we repent of our sin and get back to, as you will, you know, walking with the

01:20:06

Lord, yeah, you really do experience a great joy in that, even though it's a broken time of life.

01:20:14

Yeah, I think so, and that's why it's not, it's not just the joy of the world which would be just the joy of sense, the joy that is connected with circumstantial prosperity.

01:20:24

I mean, look at the rich man in Luke 12 where he says to himself and his wealth, he says, soul, you have many good things, and you'll have it for many years, so eat and drink and be merry, and it says, such is the one who is not rich toward God, and even

01:20:43

Job 20 speaks of how the joy of the godless is momentary, but James can say that we are to even consider it joy when we encounter trials and afflictions and difficulty, so it's not merely based on the benefit or the goodness of our circumstances.

01:21:07

Like you say, it's on something far deeper, and that is the fact that we have a

01:21:13

God in heaven, we have forgiveness of sins, there's that joy of faith, like it says in Romans 14, for the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace, and joy in the

01:21:26

Holy Spirit. And another part of this, these several verses that I read, pray without ceasing.

01:21:36

Now, nobody really does that in the way that maybe someone views this in a stiff and wooden literal way.

01:21:46

We don't just constantly pray when we're walking around and when we're enjoying company with friends and family and when we're working, and what does this really mean, pray without ceasing?

01:21:59

Well, I think you look at Nehemiah chapter 1, Nehemiah standing before the king, and it says that he laid his request before the

01:22:08

Lord. I think we should always be in that mindset of petitioning the Lord. But when it comes to joy,

01:22:14

I think of the idea of being joyful always. Even think of how, oh, we can be joyful in the middle of our moodiness.

01:22:23

I think even in this generation, the millennials desire to be very authentic, and if you speak with a young person maybe, and maybe a not so young person as well, you feel like, you know, for me to put on a face that is pleasant and to speak words that are kind,

01:22:48

I just don't feel like that right now. I need to be authentic. I need to be real.

01:22:53

But I think we can take our emotions, which sometimes we can liken them to being like the beach ball that's tossed to and fro out on Lake Michigan here.

01:23:06

It's hit by the waves, and it's hit by the winds, and so that's my emotional state.

01:23:13

I feel gloomy. I don't feel joyful. But I think the apostle tells us with this imperative, it's a command.

01:23:22

He tells us that our emotions aren't just pawns that are blown about by circumstances.

01:23:28

I think that we can control them. Our emotions have a steering wheel, and we can actually direct them.

01:23:35

You think of the water analogy. You can have a windsurfer who's out on that same blowing

01:23:43

Lake Michigan, and he's got a boon and a mast and a sail and a fin, and he can tack against the contrary wind.

01:23:53

And I think we can do that, too, by bullying our emotions. You think of how even in this passage here in 1

01:24:01

Thessalonians, he's talking to the Thessalonians in the second chapter. They've been persecuted, but he's telling them to rejoice always.

01:24:10

In 4 .13, people have fallen asleep, have died there in Thessalonica, and he's saying, rejoice always, even then.

01:24:20

There are some who, look in the next verse, it says those who are treated with evil treatment, and they've been abused.

01:24:26

And he tells even them, be joyful. And I think so we can, I think, grab hold of our emotions by the lapels, and we can give ourselves a good talking to.

01:24:39

I think it speaks of the same thing in, say, Psalm 42, where it says, Why so downcast,

01:24:46

O my soul? Why so disturbed within me? And then the word from the scriptures is,

01:24:54

Hope in God, for he is the helper of my countenance. Or even

01:24:59

Psalm 103, he grabs hold of maybe a gloomy soul in the morning, and he shouts down the corridors of his own soul.

01:25:08

He says, Praise the Lord, all my soul, all my inmost being, praise his holy name.

01:25:15

He forgives us of all of our sins, and he heals us of all of our diseases. And I think we can be authentic, because who we really are in our emotional state isn't determined by our circumstances, but by truth, by reality.

01:25:34

And so we need to give ourselves a good talking to. You know, there's an old saying, that's easy for you to say, and if anything that might evoke a response like that, it is the 18th verse of the passage we're discussing,

01:25:51

In everything give thanks, for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus. You may be visiting a hospital room, and somebody's lying there in a body cast, and you may tell them that, or remind them of that.

01:26:03

In everything give thanks, for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus. And the response might be, that's easy for you to say.

01:26:10

How do you respond to somebody who might say something like that in response to you? Well, you know, it's obvious that afflictions and sufferings are painful, and they bring grief to the heart.

01:26:26

But even think of the apostle Paul. And now he himself was a man who knew sorrows, he knew trials.

01:26:33

There he is in Philippi with Silas. He's been beaten, his back is lacerated, and there he is in Acts 16.

01:26:41

He's singing hymns there. So the apostle Paul, who knew what it was to go through affliction, is still able to be joyful.

01:26:51

In 2 Corinthians 4, he'll say, Our light and momentary afflictions are producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison.

01:27:04

So again, we've got to objectively look at the things that we have. I was just in a home of a man just today, and he had been told recently that he's going to probably need to go into hospice, meaning that his days are numbered and he'll soon be breathing his last.

01:27:23

But for such a man to be able to look at it and say, All right, though I'm going to be bidding adieu to my earthly home, still it's true

01:27:34

I have a heavenly home. Remember those POWs like John McCain?

01:27:40

There he was in Vietnam. And you read about these fellows, and they'll tell you, The only way

01:27:46

I could endure through the torture and the brainwashing and those dark cells, the only way to maintain my sanity would be to hope that one day

01:27:55

I'm going to arrive home where I'll see my parents again, my wife, my children, my friends.

01:28:03

And I think that's what a Christian can do. A Christian can say, You know, the Lord Jesus promised in John 14,

01:28:09

Let not your heart be troubled. I go to prepare a place for you.

01:28:15

I think we have to, again, live and emote according to scriptural truth.

01:28:23

And when we do, no matter how bad it might be, we can say we are not poor, we're wealthy, and we have the best of prospects in our windshield.

01:28:36

You know, I can say that one of the things that gave me such enormous indescribable comfort while my mother was on her deathbed, suffering with pancreatic cancer, is that every time

01:28:52

I would visit her, she would ask me, Do you think Jesus is going to take me home today,

01:28:57

Chris? I really want to go home to Jesus. That comforted me because she was not clinging to this world.

01:29:04

She was not clinging to physical life. She was longing to go home with the Lord. And I can't even describe to you what a gift from God that was to me to know that that was her mindset, not trying to savor every breath on this earth.

01:29:21

Yeah, and even for, I think there are times, Chris, when we can take a lesson from Job's counselors, or at least their first technique in counseling

01:29:31

Job, which was just being quiet. And if you're in a deathbed like that, sometimes it's to be there, to hold the hand, to stroke the brow, to have that sense of presence that brings comfort.

01:29:45

I don't think we need to lecture them on a glib recitation of Romans 8, 28, that God causes all things to work for the good of those who love

01:29:56

Him and are called according to His purpose. That being said, I think the reality is for us to be there as well and read the scriptures, read the

01:30:06

Word of God, to be able to read from Revelation 21 that says, You know what, Mom? Yeah, you're going to a place where there's no more weeping, no more wailing, no more sorrow, no more suffering, no more dying.

01:30:18

The old order of things has passed. The new order has come. I've been able to read about Pilgrim's Progress and how

01:30:25

Christian crossed the river. And remember how when he crossed, Hopeful was the one who crossed through, and he crossed through the ankle deep.

01:30:39

He didn't have any doubts as he was going through death, but Christian, he had all these doubts and all these struggles with assurance, but then he finally made it across and he approached the celestial city and the gates were open and the light was flashing and the trumpets were sounding.

01:30:56

To read that to somebody on their deathbed, I think it really gives a sense of exhilaration and perspective and the promise,

01:31:05

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, you're with me. Your rod, your staff, they comfort me.

01:31:11

I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever. To meditate on those things and to drink in those truths and feed our souls with those realities.

01:31:22

Man, that's our inheritance. That's the way we can drink, not from the broken cisterns of this world, but we can drink from the fountain of life.

01:31:30

And I think that sustains us and keeps our eyes brightened in this life and even toward the end when we're on the home stretch.

01:31:38

Amen. We have to go to our final break right now. If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

01:31:46

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. If you intend to ask a question, please do it quickly because we're running out of time and we look forward to hearing from you and your questions for Pastor Mark Chansky right after these messages, so don't go away.

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01:39:54

This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in, our guest for the final hour of the program, with a half hour to go, is

01:40:00

Mark Chansky, pastor of Harbor Reform Baptist Church of Holland, Michigan. We are discussing

01:40:06

Be Joyful from 1 Thessalonians 5 .16, better than weed or Xanax.

01:40:12

And if you'd like to join us now is the time to do it with a question before we run out of time.

01:40:17

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. We have, let's see, we have

01:40:24

CJ from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, who says, very often we who are reformed get ridiculed by our

01:40:31

Pentecostal and charismatic friends because they say that our services are so joyless, lifeless, and dreary.

01:40:40

While I agree with that criticism, in part, I also think that it is unbiblical for a charismatic, a

01:40:48

Pentecostal, or anyone else to believe that we should have nothing but jumping and hand clapping and smiling and all kinds of exuberant expressions of joy from beginning to end in a worship service.

01:41:02

Aren't there different approaches to worship that even include being solemn and being contrite and being struck by the awesome presence of God?

01:41:13

Yeah, I think that's well said in many ways. So, I would say that some of us maybe have earned the criticism of being gloomy and having a lack of joy.

01:41:25

That's possible. I think we should always be willing to examine ourselves when somebody takes a baseball bat of criticism to us.

01:41:34

There's probably at least a splinter of truth to it. But I do think, look at the

01:41:41

Psalms. Obviously, you have Psalm 103, Bless the

01:41:47

Lord, O my soul, all my being, praise His holy name. And Psalm 146 -150 would speak about dancing and timbrel and tambourine and everything that is breath, praise the

01:42:00

Lord. But there are also some very minor key Psalms, like Psalm 88 that has that sense of darkness to it.

01:42:09

Psalm 30, that does indicate that weeping may endure for a night, but a shout of joy comes in the morning.

01:42:18

And so I think we should have a whole buffet of biblical themes that are displayed in our worship together.

01:42:26

And we shouldn't just be all putting in jello. I think sometimes we need to have a little bit of broccoli and asparagus as well.

01:42:37

Let's see, we have Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania.

01:42:44

And Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania wants to know, do you find that people very often who are

01:42:52

Christians run to the wrong thing in order to find joy or peace in the midst of trial?

01:42:59

And what I am speaking of specifically is they're running to the fact that God did not ordain or have anything to do with this trial.

01:43:09

Isn't that absurd? Wouldn't a Christian find more naturally joy in the fact that God does have a purpose in your pain?

01:43:19

Oh, I think that's a really interesting question, because there are some theologically who view history as a wrestling mat where there's a dualism.

01:43:31

Somehow God is fighting, wrestling with an almost equally strengthened devil.

01:43:39

And so there are times when, oh, look, God has been taken down by this experience.

01:43:45

For instance, back in 1988, our family, my wife birthed a little boy who had spina bifida.

01:43:53

And I still remember that little boy sticking out his pinky and my wife grabbing hold of him.

01:43:58

He had this big lesion on his back, and we were weeping. Now, to think somehow, oh, look,

01:44:05

God had looked the other way. And while he wasn't paying attention, the devil somehow gouged and plowed up the back of my little boy.

01:44:14

What a nonsensical thing. That the comfort we have is a reality that God causes all things to work for the good of those who love him and are called according to his purpose.

01:44:27

And the fact that that little boy's wound in his back was perfectly cut by the fingernails of my heavenly

01:44:35

Father, it says about him in Psalm 84, he withholds no good thing from those who are called according to his purpose.

01:44:44

To be able to say, you know what, if I longed for the health of my son and I thought that was a better thing,

01:44:56

I was wrong in thinking it was a better thing. I mean, there are times when we think of, oh, doesn't it have staples that has the easy button?

01:45:04

And you think, oh, I can just push this button and get my way? Well, think about it, Chris, as a believer.

01:45:09

If there was an easy button and I could either go God's will, which may seem bitter, like maybe a deformed child, or my will, which may seem sweet, which may be a golden boy child with everything perfect,

01:45:26

I don't think I dare hit that easy button to get my will instead of his will.

01:45:33

My heavenly Father knows so much better for me. And now even looking back, this little boy who was born in 1988, well, we thought maybe he'd never get out of a wheelchair, thought he'd be paralyzed, thought he wouldn't have bowel and bladder control.

01:45:48

This guy eventually got a black belt in taekwondo, and I have five children, and I have two grandchildren, two grandsons, and they both came through this little young man named

01:45:59

Austin that the Lord has given a wonderful wife and two children. God moves in mysterious ways.

01:46:07

We ought to trust His will instead of an alternative that we have. Praise God.

01:46:14

And you cannot help but reflect after that upon the

01:46:19

Garden of Gethsemane, when our very Lord knew that even though the will of His Father included

01:46:27

His Father's wrath being poured upon Him on Calvary, in addition to experiencing the physical brutality of being nailed to that tree, by far the most horrible and terrifying thing was that wrath being poured upon Him in the place of His children.

01:46:49

That shows vividly how the harder way was the better way.

01:46:55

Am I right? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And to live according to, Thy will not mine be done.

01:47:02

You think of a young woman, she's in a romantic relationship, and there's a breakup.

01:47:10

And this thing which she delighted in and she wanted it so badly, the

01:47:15

Lord took it away from her to be able to trust and to be able to say, you know what I wanted so bad?

01:47:21

In God's eyes, it was a toxic bottle of poison. And it's not good for me.

01:47:28

And to trust my Heavenly Father that He knows what's best for me. Or even, I made a bid in the house, and oh, we didn't get that house.

01:47:37

And Bill, look back. And even our church building, I talk about a church building God gave to us here in North Holland.

01:47:43

We had another building that we bid on back in 1995, and we were so desirous of getting it, but we got turned down and we were devastated.

01:47:53

But the Lord brought about this wonderful situation where He gave us three times the building that we wanted for less of the price.

01:48:03

And He knows. He knows what's right. And even if it isn't a wonderful success story like that, to be able to say that, you know, if it's for me to walk in darkness, to be in difficulty, that's

01:48:18

His. We'll even think of a man in our church who, about a year ago, August of this time last year, a 67 -year -old man, he was throwing up hay on his 40 -acre farm, putting it up in the barn, and he could do the work of four city boys.

01:48:37

But then within a couple, three weeks, he was hit with an MRI that showed a problem in his hip, cancer diagnosis.

01:48:44

And by late December, he was in that farmhouse in a bleak winter, dying.

01:48:50

And our church family would go into his room, and we would see his dying, his weakening, his becoming skeletal, this previously strong and wiry man.

01:49:02

You know what, Chris? That was a really dark, dark time for our church. But Glenn showed us, taught us how to die.

01:49:12

And we would be there in his room late at night. People would take the night vigil because they didn't know if he was going to die at night.

01:49:21

And he would breathe, and his hands would go up and down his chest, and then he'd stop breathing for 15, 20, 25, 30 seconds.

01:49:30

And we'd think, did he go? Did he pass? Has he gone to another world? Then he'd breathe again. And so everybody who was there would be vicariously experiencing these last moments of our own lives, we would think, as Glenn was teaching us.

01:49:46

And I tell you what, spiritually speaking, that was so beneficial for the Church of God, even though it wasn't a great success story.

01:49:53

The world would say it was a terrible loss and a devastating story. But God used it for good.

01:50:01

Now, I'm going to ask about something that may seem superficial. I don't know if it's the

01:50:07

New Yorker in me, but I'm not the only one who has expressed this kind of complaint.

01:50:15

There is a phenomenon where people, especially if they are visiting churches for the first time, where there might be some members of that congregation who so desperately want to put on a good face to a visitor, they want that visitor to return.

01:50:31

There is a plastic, artificial joy that is often paraded about to these folks who very often see right through it, and it's almost like a

01:50:44

Stepford Wives glaze that appears just to be artificial.

01:50:51

I can't even think of another way to describe it. Is there a way that we can counteract that artificial joy that is a turn -off to a number of people without actually being depressing and gloomy to those that we encounter in our lives?

01:51:09

Yeah, I think we can look at the Lord Jesus Christ, can't we? And you look at the multitude of emotions that he displayed.

01:51:16

Certainly, he was the man of ultimate joy. For the joy set before him, he endured the cross.

01:51:24

But in the Lord Jesus, you look at, okay, John 11. Here, Lazarus dies, sees

01:51:31

Mary and Martha, and there's weeping in the Lord Jesus. Or he sees the widow of Nain when her only child, only son, has died.

01:51:44

He speaks of that term as his bowels of compassion. He erupted. His heart went out to her.

01:51:50

So there is this compassionate going out of the heart. But then again, look, the

01:51:58

Lord Jesus was at the wedding at Cana in John chapter 2. So clearly, he was able to celebrate.

01:52:07

He wasn't a killjoy. I don't know if there was dancing at that wedding, but certainly the

01:52:12

Lord Jesus Christ wasn't a damper on what was taking place there because he gave the best of wine.

01:52:17

Wine, Psalm 104, which makes the heart glad. Amen. Well, I want to make sure that before we run out of time that you have about four or five minutes uninterrupted where you can just basically summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners regarding the subject of joy before we run out of time.

01:52:38

Yeah, thanks for that, Chris. Again, I think of this idea of joy, and as I mentioned in the beginning, we can be so yo -yo -like.

01:52:48

We can be so up and down determined by the latest, again, win of the

01:52:54

Detroit Tigers or the latest purchase of a home or the latest disappointment in a relationship.

01:53:05

I think we're called to be more even -keeled when it says rejoice always. I think the way that we keep that stability is by keeping in our minds some of the great truths.

01:53:17

We think of people who may take a Prozac or a

01:53:22

Xanax or some other kind of a drug to keep them up. I think truth is the most buoying influence on us and to continually be taking in the medication of truth.

01:53:37

Rejoice always. Well, why? Why should I rejoice? Well, just think how, look, if you're a

01:53:44

Christian, your sins have been pardoned. And I don't know about you, but I think of the

01:53:51

Apostle Paul in Romans 7. He still battles with his sense of the awareness of his sin.

01:53:57

When I would do good, evil is there with me. I don't do the good that I would do, but the evil I wouldn't do. That I do what a wretched man am

01:54:03

I. Who will rescue me from this body of death? And he can say, thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our

01:54:10

Lord. There's no condemnation for us who are in Christ Jesus. And just the reality that we, as sinners, and even someone listening here by some chance, listen to Iron Sharp and Iron Radio, an unbeliever maybe has been working through the stations on his radio.

01:54:28

He listens to this. Listen, if you have this sense of a conscience that isn't right with God, and if you're enlightened enough to know that you have a problem with God, you're guilty before God, you're like somebody who's sitting in a waiting room, waiting for the door to open, you to be ushered before a firing squad on Judgment Day.

01:54:49

That's a reality. You know, in Christ Jesus, he has taken the hood off of sinners, and he's put the hood on himself.

01:54:57

He's gone to the cross. He's taken all the hits. All the cannons of justice have been emptied on the

01:55:05

Lord Jesus Christ. It is finished, and that makes us to be like a Barabbas who was exchanged his liberty for Christ's penalty on the cross, and we're set free.

01:55:20

And set free, I mean, that can make us dancing happy. There is no judgment for us.

01:55:26

There's no condemnation for us that's in Christ Jesus. That gives us joy because we have sins forgiven.

01:55:34

And then the Lord Jesus said, anybody who believes in me, John 7, from his inmost being will flow rivers of living water.

01:55:42

It's not just willpower. There is a Holy Spirit. It's a person. The Spirit of Christ comes, and he dwells in us, and he, oh, there's that old story of Bunyan and Pilgrim's Progress and the way that he goes into the interpreter's house, and there is this fire against the wall that's being doused out by a man with water, but there's somebody over the wall who's pouring in oil.

01:56:07

That's the oil of the Spirit, and Jesus pours oil on the fire of our faith so that it doesn't get snuffed out.

01:56:15

That's the Holy Spirit. He keeps kindling joy in our hearts. And then, again, the assurance that we have a

01:56:22

Heavenly Father who's causing all things to work for our good. We have the Holy Spirit who's within us.

01:56:28

The Lord Jesus Christ who's ever interceding for us. Man, we have a whole chest full of riches and reasons why we should be joyful, regardless of what the earthly circumstances would say to us.

01:56:42

So for us to take the medication of that truth, that's way better than weed. It's way better than Xanax.

01:56:51

Praise God for that. That is something that we all need to hear, especially when life gets so difficult and life gets so lonely that there may be any temptation to use artificial means or sinful means to deaden that pain or to bring a temporary joy to our lives.

01:57:15

That's something that we need to remember over and over again, especially with the ease with which even

01:57:25

Christians, even the most godly Christians and seasoned Christians, when they are being bombarded with things on the television, ads offering pharmaceutical rescue from these depressions.

01:57:40

Now, I'm not saying I'm not one of these Christians that think that drugs are never appropriate.

01:57:45

I agree, Chris. I agree with you. But at the same time, can they not easily be abused?

01:57:50

I've known Christians and met Christians that started off with responsible and moderate use of medicine who had become tragically addicted to it.

01:58:00

Yeah, Chris, you know, sometimes I know Psalm 88, it says, Darkness is my closest friend.

01:58:06

I know that. I felt that in my own soul. But it's good for us not to turn to the medicine cabinet, but instead to turn to our

01:58:15

Bible for the comfort that we need. I'm not saying you never go to the medicine cabinet ever. I'm not saying you should never use drugs.

01:58:21

It's not what I'm saying. But I think the Word of God calls us to draw pain ought to cause us to chiefly draw near to our

01:58:29

Heavenly Father. And I need the medicine and the very things that I've just spoken about because I've been gouted in my heart.

01:58:36

And I need this. And I'm not just talking about this in theory. I know what it is to weep and be devastated and feel like I'm burdened beyond any strength that I have.

01:58:47

But praise God that these these truths are strengthening. Praise God.

01:58:53

Well, I want to make sure our listeners have all the contact information they need for you. HarborChurchHolland .org,

01:59:02

Holland. I'm sorry, HarborChurchHolland .org, HarborChurchHolland .org.

01:59:07

Any other contact information that we could give to our listeners? No, that'll do it. That'll do it.

01:59:12

Come on along to Midsummer Lord's Day this Sunday. Mike Waters from AQUA will be here. Hope to see you. Great.

01:59:18

And don't forget that if you hear any books being mentioned on Iron Trip and Zion Radio like we did for the first hour of the program, you could go to CVBBS .com,

01:59:29

CV for Cumberland Valley, BBS for Bible Book Service .com. Or you could go to Solid -Ground -Books .com,

01:59:36

Solid -Ground -Books .com. Go there for the big sale that Solid Ground Christian Books is having right now.

01:59:43

And I want to thank everybody who listened today. I want to thank also, of course, my guest, Pastor Mark Chansky, and my co -host,

01:59:50

Reverend Buzz Taylor. And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater