WWUTT 1075 Q&A Babies are Still Murdered Here, They Went Out From Us, Lamb or Goat of God, Be Ready to Give an Answer?

Documentary on Abortion, Heartbeat Bills, and Abolitionism

Where can you watch the documentary, Babies Are Still Murdered Here? If someone walks away from the faith, do they also walk away from the church? And why is Jesus only the lamb of God when Israel also sacrificed goats?

The answer's when we understand the text.

This is When We Understand The Text, a daily podcast in the word of Christ. For the grass withers and the flower falls, but the word of the Lord remains forever. Tell your friends about our website, www .tt .com.

Here once again is Pastor Gabe.

Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. This is the Friday edition of the broadcast and you can submit questions to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com. Here, let me adjust your mic for you.

Is there a problem? Oh, you can really hear me now, can't you? Yeah, there you go.

Hello. Because she's all bundled in her blanket over here. I can't scooch any closer. And doesn't want to get out of her blanket to move her mic in front of her. You have called.

I don't know about y 'all out there, but I don't do well in the cold. I'd rather be hibernating.

Well, don't bounce, you're knocking the thing here. It is 24 degrees at the time of our recording.

Burr, that's Fahrenheit. Yeah, yeah, right.

I guess I have to remember that. Yes. Not all of our listeners use Fahrenheit.

Right, that is 24 degrees Fahrenheit. So below zero Celsius. Is Celsius metric?

Do we call that metric? I don't. We don't call that metric, right? Yeah, so Fahrenheit and Celsius aren't like English in metric, right? No. Metric is just like ruler, like inches, distance.

Centimeters, kilometers. Centimeters versus inches. Right.

Meters versus yards. Right. That's metric. Right. So Celsius doesn't count as metric.

No, and according to some of the world, we say it wrong too.

It's, oh, like Calcius?

No, like Celsius or something like that. I don't know. All right. Anyway. We're gonna get some emails now. We are. Well, over here.

Enlighten us. Over here across the pond. Right? So yeah. Once again, if you want to correct us on our understanding of measurements and units, you can send those emails to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.

Something we have to start with plugging today that we keep talking about every week and we always forget. Okay. But listen in to the Just Thinking podcast. Yes, they're awesome. We had the chance to meet these guys.

Well, I've seen Virgil several times. Right. And we ran into each other at G3 for sure. And it was at that G3 that we attended. It was right after Daryl Harrison had moved from Atlanta to California. Right.

And G3 is right there in Atlanta. Right. So we didn't get the chance to meet Mr. Harrison, but Virgil was there. And then they met at Truth Matters. I didn't realize the two of them had never met before.

Never. So they met for the first time at the Truth Matters Conference. How cool is that? Which was also the same time we met Daryl at Truth Matters. That's right. But they do a great podcast. He was very popular.

Yeah. They do a great podcast. One of the best podcasts on the web. Definitely. So check out Just Thinking, also put together by the Bar Network, Biblical and Reformed. And thanks to Dwayne for all the work that he does there over at the Bar.

All right. Now we finally got our Just Thinking plug in there. Woo! Great job guys. Here we also wanna start out giving a plug to the new documentary film, Babies Are Still Murdered Here. This is the follow-up to the documentary, Babies Are Murdered Here.

Okay. It's put together by Apologia Studios. Marcus Pittman is the filmmaker behind it. Did a wonderful job. I had the chance to watch it this week. I didn't realize it came out on November 1st. So I was even a little bit late on finally pulling up the documentary and watching it.

But it really, it not only exposes the horrors of the things that happen in the abortion movement, which I would think a lot of us are already familiar with that. If you call yourself pro-life or you are for the defense of the unborn, then you already know how horrible the whole abortion industry is.

But one of the things that this documentary really kind of exposes is that the pro-life movement really is not doing anything to help save baby's lives. Right. And when I'm talking about the thing that we call pro-life that you've got all these politicians that'll call themselves pro-life.

It's basically pro-life versus what would be termed abolitionism. Abolitionism is we are for the complete abolishment of abortion. Like not incrementally, but right now, we need to end it today, which is why Apologia Studios has also put together End Abortion Now.

Between abolitionism and the pro-life movement. Pro-life is really doing more to hinder the process of actually ending abortion than what they're doing to end abortion. How do you mean? Well, let me just give you one example right offhand and you'll see it in the documentary.

There was a bill earlier this year in the state of Texas that would have, I think this was just back in August even, would have ended abortion. This is what they were trying to do in the state of Texas.

They wanted to make abortion illegal. Life begins at conception. Okay. And pro-lifers were blocking the passage of that bill, including Abby Johnson. Remember this film? Oh, right. Unplanned, which is about Abby Johnson's story.

Okay. Abby Johnson is opposed to any kind of legislation that would make abortion a crime. And therefore a woman who gets an abortion would also be tried for a crime because she's killing her child. The pro-life side of things does not like those bills that want to actually make abortion illegal.

So they're trying to do this incremental thing to have it steadily, you know, I don't even understand how it's Like not the hip thing to do anymore kind of thing?

Like, what do you mean hip thing to do? Like right now it's a fad, if you will, for in some circles. I mean, pro-life is kind of a fad.

It's kind of like you're either pro-choice or you're pro-life and somebody attaches themselves to one label or the other. But a large number of those people who would identify themselves as pro-life are not actually for the complete abolishment of abortion.

And anytime some sort of bill or legislation comes up, you've got politicians that identify as pro-life that try to kill those abolition bills. They don't want them to pass. I know, and that's shown in this documentary.

So you really got to check this out. I think one of the things that the first version of this film, Babies Are Murdered Here, I think one of the things that movie showed is that women are not victims here.

Women who go into abortion clinics want to kill their children. That's one of the things that the part one of this documentary series exposed in case you were kind of in the dark about that. If you've never done ministry at an abortion clinic before, you're just kind of under the impression that, oh, but they don't really know what they're doing.

And if they could just see an ultrasound, then they would change their mind. That's usually the out of sight, out of mind argument that we make regarding women who want to get abortions. So I think that's what was exposed by part one.

And then this latest episode of this documentary is exposing the fact that the pro-life side, especially politically, is not really trying to abolish abortion. They might be passing some bills here and there, but those bills actually make it easy for abortion doctors and abortion clinics to get around.

They can get around this stuff. Nobody's actually gonna be tried and go to jail over the heartbeat bill that was passed in Georgia or in Ohio, for example. So that's the clip that I wanna play here. I'm gonna start the documentary at a certain portion where you're gonna hear some news clips about these various heartbeat bills that get passed.

Saiten Bruggenkade is in here. You're gonna hear from the governor of Virginia, the outlandish statements that he made. It was either earlier this year or last year. And then you're also gonna hear from an ultrasound tech who is going to demonstrate.

It's a little hard to kind of picture it in your mind because we're playing the audio. You'd have to go to the video to watch it. But she's gonna demonstrate how easy it is to get around the heartbeat bill.

And we're gonna kind of talk about that as it shows.

Yeah, so as you hear the thing playing, we'll be narrating as it goes. Okay, so here we go.

The Ohio governor signing today what critics condemn as the most restrictive abortion law in the country.

Well, Georgia has passed one of the most restrictive abortion policies in the country.

State lawmakers narrowly passed a measure Friday that would outlaw most abortions once a heartbeat can be detected in the embryo.

State after state passing new restrictive laws.

Next up is Louisiana. The question is who gets to determine what is life?

So this is Si Ten Brugge and Kate here. And he's making an apologetic argument for basically how do we determine what life is? If we're not passing a bill that says life begins at conception, then now who's gonna decide at what stage this child becomes a life?

Who is making that decision? Where is that being defined? So that's what Si is gonna be arguing for here.

Is an ultrasound gonna determine it? They want to reinforce the suppression of truth of the mothers who wanna kill their babies. Because you see, if the person is God, it doesn't matter what you prove.

They're just gonna think of different reasons why I can kill this baby. And that's what's happening now. And the mask is finally being pulled off of the abortion movement. You have governors arguing that a baby could be killed after birth.

In this particular example, if I'm

So here's the clip of Virginia Governor Ralph Northam, Democrat from Virginia, who was, these were those crazy statements that he made about, hey, when the child is born, if the mother doesn't want the child, you could still put the child to death.

That's basically what he's admitting here.

Mother is in labor. I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated, if that's what the mother and the family desired.

There are people advocating for the killing of babies after they've been born. And you're gonna pull out an ultrasound machine and prove to this guy that he's killing a baby? Are you kidding me?

My name is Sarah Cleveland. I'm a registered diagnostic medical sonographer, otherwise known as an ultrasound tech. I've been registered for 15 years. I specialize in a couple of different areas, one of them being OBGYN.

I've been involved in anti-abortion work for many years. As someone who has operated an ultrasound machine for a number of years, I can guarantee you, the machine only takes pictures where I tell it to, where the operator tells it to.

It is 100 operator dependent. I can choose not to see a heartbeat, even if there is one. I can choose to show the mother. I can choose not to document it. I can choose to take a picture of the pregnancy without showing a heartbeat, even if there is one.

The machine takes the pictures where I tell it, and it can be easily manipulated. Today we had a young mom come in. So, this is a big baby, right? So we're talking 16 and a half weeks. And we did a scan of her, and I started off just doing a normal scan like I would, just showing her the profile, showing her the baby.

The baby's arms and legs were moving around. The ankles were crossed. Okay, so we see details here. We see the baby's face. There's two hands right there. Okay. You see the baby moving. I'm not moving at all.

This is the baby moving. Look at the jaw moving. See the mouth moving? Open and shut. Watch that mouth. Just like a newborn baby, except in the womb. See the legs at the top. Remember doing this, babe?

The legs are crossed. Oh, yeah. So, we've been here with our kids watching these ultrasounds, so. Love it. All these details. Everything is there.

There's the umbilical cord. You see that little rope-looking thing right there? You see it pulsating? That's the umbilical cord attached to the mother and baby. So, we can get beautiful pictures like that.

I showed her the baby on the screen. I printed out pictures for her, and everything was great, and she enjoyed watching the ultrasound. So, this would be a great picture to give home, to take home for mom, for her baby.

You see the brain structures, even in the brain there.

All right, now they're gonna show us how these ultrasounds can be manipulated, so you can still follow the laws of the heartbeat bill without actually breaking the law, but you're also not showing the mother a heartbeat or that there's any child even in the womb at all.

Oh, wow. So, here's how she's gonna demonstrate that these ultrasound techs, if they're in the business of murdering children, that's what they're gonna try to do. They're not gonna try to appease these heartbeat bills, and we're leaving it in their hands to be honest about the fact that there's a child in the womb.

So, now she's gonna explain the darker side of this. The next part of the ultrasound I did.

On that very same baby, not moving any of the buttons on the screen, I could just move the angle of the probe or the transducer to an angle where I lose the baby on the screen. So, I'm purposely taking a bad picture.

You really can't tell anything, right? You can't see the profile. You can't really see anything. This is mostly at the bottom of the screen that's mostly bowel. The settings aren't quite right. I should drop the depth down.

I should zoom in a little bit more, clean up the image, but they're not gonna care at an abortion facility. At the very, very top is a very, very small sliver of the placenta, and in the top right of the screen is a cross-section of the baby's thigh.

But yet, I've fulfilled that pro-life law and done the ultrasound, shown the mom her baby, but again, it's impersonal. It's not the whole baby. It's not the whole picture, but to her, it looks like nothing.

To her, it doesn't really look like anything. So, here's the torso and the baby's face. You can see an arm moving, and then just in that same spot, move it. So, it's only just a little bit of the baby in the picture, but it doesn't look like the baby.

The baby just disappears.

It's a cross-section of an area of the body. So, yeah, she just, I mean, just basically turns her wrist barely. Yeah, just barely. And you lose the baby in the image altogether. Yeah, that's weird.

So, there's... It goes from baby to just... A black hole.

Yeah. And so, this is what they're doing at abortion facilities. So, they just have to go, well, you know, just look. I'll even show it to you. Clump of cells there. Wow. Not a baby.

So, she... And she'll go on to explain that here. Mostly fluid. It's mostly, actually, just bowel and air of the mom at the bottom. That's not even part of the pregnancy, but it's at the very top. But it's fulfilling pro-life laws, because if they say, if a mom asks to see the ultrasound before her abortion, I'm doing an ultrasound before the abortion, right?

If she asks to see the screen, I'll say, okay, no big deal. See how you can't really see anything? Like, yeah, I don't really see anything. Say, that's all we're doing. We're just removing that. So, the problem with the heartbeat bill is it's ultimately trusting someone who is in the business of killing babies to tell the truth, using an ultrasound to detect a heartbeat.

There can't be any charges against an abortionist, because they're fulfilling, they're not even breaking the law. Babies with beating hearts are able to be seen as early as six weeks, but the abortion facility is not going to take the effort, or take the time, or do the ultrasound accurately to find that heartbeat that early on.

They're in the business of killing babies. They're not in the business of finding heartbeats, of being honest, and saving that baby's life. So, these pro-life pieces of legislation, these ultrasound bills, and even the heartbeat bills, how it's advertised it's gonna save 90 to 95 of babies with beating hearts, absolutely a lie.

So, get

We're trusting murderers to tell the truth. Yeah, so get that. So, she says 90 to, the claim is 90 to 95 of babies are gonna be saved by these heartbeat bills. Right. And she says that's not true. That's not gonna happen.

So, now it's gonna shift to Sarah Cleveland giving testimony about that here.

I urge you to do the right thing, and make this not a regulation bill, but instead a full abolitionist bill to end human abortion in Ohio.

Thank you. Ms. Cleveland, thank you for your testimony, and I commend you for taking the time to read the text of the bill, and giving us the appropriate lines for your thoughts. So, thank you very much for that.

Heartbeat bills should be opposed because they don't go far enough. Leading pro-life lobbies oppose them because they go too far. That's the graphic that comes up there. National Right to Life and their partners have a long history of opposing even the weakest regulations of abortion.

There was something in the paper. So, this is Mike Ganadakis, the executive director to the Ohio Right to Life. This woman's asking him a question, and he's gonna give an answer. So, the clips that it's gonna show here are examples of some of these guys and politicians that claim to be pro-life, and they're actually opposing pro-life legislation.

You wanna read what her question was? Yeah, let me see if I can go back a little bit here. See if I can bring this up. Still that graphic. National Right to Life, da-da-da-da-da. She says, there was something in the paper not long ago.

They were going to try and limit, I believe, it's in Ohio, the abortions to when the heartbeats started. The heartbeats between 18 to 21 days, I believe.

What happened to that? 4th Inc. would be drawing Governor Kasich's name. If, assuming he would sign it, which I don't think he will, there will be a permanent injunction of the Federal District Court in Southwest Ohio by liberal pro-abortion judge Susan Millatt.

Groupie-making, saying this law is unconstitutional.

Mike, your group doesn't support the heartbeat bill. Seems like a pro-life bill. Why don't you support this one in particular?

What we've said at Ohio Right to Life is we're strategic in what laws we pass in all 50 states because our federal court system is very vicious to us. We have to be careful because why would we invite a hostile court to make a decision that could set us back 40, 50 years?

We have to engage in the incremental approach one step at a time.

There's another bill that you do support. It's called the 20-week abortion ban. Do you think that bill will withstand challenges in the courts?

We do, and here's why. 12 other states have passed the fetal pain 20-week ban.

We are following breaking news out of Columbus today where Governor John Kasich has signed a 20-week abortion ban while vetoing the heartbeat bill, a heartbeat bill which cleared the Republican-led legislator ban most abortions as early as six weeks into a pregnancy and would have been among the strictest abortion bills in the country.

So that was back in 2016. A lot of you probably remember John Kasich because he was running for president in 2016, was probably the liberalist conservative of the Republicans that were running for president.

So it was even during that time when he was campaigning for president, he vetoed the heartbeat bill, but he passed the 20-week abortion ban. Guys, he's a pro-choice Republican. So I don't care that he passed a 20-week ban.

That man is pro-abortion. He's saying you can have an abortion all the way up to 20 weeks. That was absolutely his position on it because with the stroke of his own pen, he vetoed the heartbeat bill, but passed the 20-week abortion ban.

That's not pro-life. No. You're deciding when life begins and it's not at conception. You think it happens sometime later. So you're for the killing of babies if that's where your pro-life message starts and stops.

Right.

Every other organization that I name supports this bill. The only organization that doesn't support it is National Right to Life.

Now that's absolutely astounding. So that's representative Steve King in Iowa. And he says, everybody is supporting this abortion ban bill except the National Right to Life. And they're supposed to be the political action group that's behind helping to push these pro-life legislations.

Yeah. Isn't that astounding? I can't get past this. That's what they're exposing in this documentary. It's incredible. And well done to Marcus Pittman and the guys who worked on this for putting all this together.

Okay. So this graphic in 2019, after years of fighting against the heartbeat bill and with pressure from citizens of Ohio, Ohio Right to Life forced themselves into the governor's signing ceremony to take credit for its passing.

The Ohio governor signing today what critics condemn is the most restrictive abortion law in the country. So you recognize that guy right over there?

That was the guy they were interviewing on TV. I can't hardly see your screen. I'm sorry. Okay. Well, it's kind of a little bit blurry because the image started pulling out. Yeah.

And it's, I'm not face on with it. Oh, okay. So it changes the colors. You know, they had the split screen where there was the interview on television. Oh yeah. And he was the guy on the right.

That's him right there. Oh, gotcha. So the guy on the right was who? So he was with the National Right to Life. Check. And he was the one that was saying, no, we can't do these abolition bills because it would set us back.

So instead we're trying to do it incrementally. Got it. And then you had the representative from Iowa that was saying, everybody is behind this abolition bill. All of the pro-life groups are behind it except the National Right to Life.

That's insane.

Was actually opposing it. That is just, I can't get past it. My blue group doesn't support the heartbeat bill.

So on July 3rd, the federal district judge struck down the Ohio heartbeat bill. That was this year. Three days later, the bills were mocked. Now I lost that graphic now. I'm not gonna be able to get it back because it goes too far.

Hang on. Support the heartbeat bill. Struck down the Ohio heartbeat bill, district judge. Three days later, the bills were mocked at the National Right to Life convention. So what you're gonna What?

Yes. So what you're gonna hear next is the National Right to Life group mocking these bills.

Oh my God. If one of these left more idealistic bills comes up in our state, what advice do you think that we should give to the legislators? Should we ask them to vote for something like the heartbeat bill?

Should we ask them to oppose it? Like Not introduce it. Not consider it. Well, we've already been Not vote for it.

So this is the guy, Jim Bopp from the National Right to Life general counsel, and he's saying heartbeat bills, don't introduce them, don't consider them, don't have a committee hearing for them, do not vote for them.

This is the National Right to Life that's saying this. And the And they get paid for this job? Well, yeah, they do. Now remember the ultrasound tech that we were hearing from earlier, she was saying they don't work anyway because all you have to do is, you know, turn the thing this way and you can not even find the baby in the ultrasound and we're entrusting to murderers to tell us the truth.

Very true. But what these clips are showing is that the National Right to Life doesn't even support heartbeat bills. Like heartbeat bills, they would consider to be way too conservative. So they oppose those, instead they go for things like 20 week abortion bans because they think that's better for this effort than passing some sort of abolition legislation.

So in August of 2019, Jim Bopp spoke before the Tennessee legislature condemning a life at conception bill. And here is what he said.

Look, divine intervention is God's decision, not ours. He will do it in his time when he believes the time is right. Absent divine intervention, we have to use our human reason, our human powers to figure out what is the best course.

So I'm gonna go ahead and stop it there, but that's the section of the documentary that I wanted to play for you. I made the argument on Twitter that this section that I just watched here is enough to convince me to be an abolitionist, to not do the incremental stuff.

Definitely. I get phone calls all the time. I remember one time I was driving down to Georgia with my dad and we stopped at a gas station and I got a call on my phone and it was somebody from one of those right to life organizations.

They were saying, hey, we're doing all this work to try to pass these legislations and stuff like that. And they, would you donate to our cause? Cause we have you down as a registered Republican and you vote pro-life.

And I said, no, no, I'm not gonna give you anything. And she was really like stuck. She was like, I mean, do you understand kind of the work that we do? And I said, yeah, I understand the work that you do.

And she said, well, you don't wanna support this? And I said, no, if you call me back sometime later in the future and you tell me that you are for the absolute passing of laws that define life as beginning at conception and abortion is illegal at all stages in all 40 weeks of pregnancy.

If you call me back and you say that's what you're fighting for, then I'll support your cause. But until you can tell me that, I'm not gonna give you any money because I don't see that the effort that you're.

Yeah, it just makes me angry. Yeah. It's just better that I don't say anything. I'm just angry right now. This is a sensitive, a pretty sensitive subject for Becky. It is. She doesn't watch these kinds of documentaries with me.

Nope. She can't handle them. Nope. But I knew that we could at least do that much. Sure. And your eyes would stay dry. Yep. They're dry because I'm angry. But it's a great documentary. Check out Babies Are Still Murdered here.

We had posted it on our What Facebook page yesterday and also the What Twitter page. So if you follow us on social media, you'll find the documentary there. And then of course, you look it up on YouTube because that's what we're linking to is the YouTube page.

Sorry, I started playing it there. Apologia Studios who had just posted it, they premiered it on October the 31st. So if you go to Apologia Studios YouTube channel, you'll find Babies Are Still Murdered here.

Thanks again to Marcus Pittman and the gang for putting that together.

It was a wonderful documentary. Wonderful as in enlightening. Enlightening, yes.

That's a great way to put it. Okay, let's get to the questions here. This first one is Pastor Gabe. I loved the, well, what extra videos that you were doing? So that's the, on YouTube, it's WWUTT EXT.

If you're looking for those extra videos. It's not really extra. I think that's what it says on the title page. But it's supposed to be EXT, like extended, extra. Yeah. Text. Something like that. Yeah.

Anyway, I love those videos you were doing, but you stopped doing them. I think the video on the problems with the Bible project videos was the last one that you did. Any chance that you have any future videos planned?

Yes, hopefully the one that I've been working on, I'll get it posted today. Oh, that's cool. But I'm reading through the first chapter of 25 Christmas Myths and What the Bible Says. So trying to give a little plug for the book, and you can hear some of the stuff that I wrote, that I'm proud of, so pick up the book.

You can go find it on Amazon. If you just type in 25, the number 25 Christmas Myths on Amazon, it's the first thing that's gonna come up. Okay. So you can get it either for your Kindle or for your, get it in paperback.

But anyway, so the next, well, what next video is gonna be on 25 Christmas Myths. And then I've got another one after that, that I'm gonna do too. And it's still on 25 Christmas Myths. I'm not getting hardly any videos done right now.

I've not even been doing any what videos.

Yeah, we've had a busy season. It's been a very busy season. Yeah.

Yeah, it used to be that I was doing at least one what video a week. And right now I'm doing like one or two a month. Right. So it's, I'm really behind. Running them around. She has been. Becky's had work for me to do too.

I have. So then Edward goes on here. My question is about the video that you did on 1 John 2 .19. They went out from us, but they were not of us. For if they had been of us, they would have continued with us.

But they went out that it might become plain that they all are not of us. In the video where you explain this passage, you seem to use the words faith and church interchangeably. Like you talk about how a person who leaves the faith never really had faith to begin with.

And a person who leaves the church was never really part of the church in the first place. But how are faith and the church the same thing? How is it that John is talking about both of these things here?

I've always appreciated your videos. You helped me understand the Bible better. Keep up the great work, Edward in Colorado. Okay, so let me bring this up. I forgot to get my Bible out, which I like to do and bring up 1 John 2 .19.

So let's look at this in context. And this is John warning about antichrist. So starting in verse 18, children, it is the last hour and you have heard that antichrist is coming. So now many antichrists have come.

Therefore, we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us. For if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

But you have been anointed by the Holy One and you all have knowledge. I write to you not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it and because no lie is of the truth. Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ?

This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you.

If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father. And this is the promise that he made to us, eternal life. So that's verses 18 through 25 there.

So in the video, primarily what I was responding to is there were folks that were arguing that you can't use 1 John 2 .19 to say that a person has left the church or left the faith to demonstrate that they were never really of the faith in the first place.

Okay. And the reason why they were arguing that is because the context that John is talking about is false teachers. Okay. So he's talking about false teachers. They, the false teachers went out from us because they were not really of us.

That's true, but who follows the false teachers? Yeah. The rest of the people that ended up walking away from the faith or walking away from the church. And following the false teachers. Right. Right.

So they, remember Paul says they accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions. Right. So false teachers are, yeah, false teachers are a judgment and false teachers don't go out by themselves.

Right. False teachers take people with them who wanted to believe the false teachers. Yeah. So that's certainly the context of what John is talking about there, but it doesn't mean that we just limit it to talking about false teachers.

It's also the people that follow those false teachers. Right. Because remember in Revelation chapter 13, verse eight says that those who worship the beast are those whose names were not written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the lamb who was slain.