Bernie Sanders and Brannon Howse: You Won’t Believe What They Have in Common!

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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Greetings, welcome to the Dividing Line. In the halls of the United States government in the past few days, we had once again demonstrated to us the reality of the fact that our nation is moving toward a secular socialist state that is totalitarian in its thinking.

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And that was demonstrated by Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, who, aside from some rather obvious chicanery on the part of people in the

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Democratic Party, might have ended up being the Democratic nominee. Can you imagine a Sanders -Trump campaign?

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That would have been pretty insane. But anyway, Bernie Sanders, unfortunately, is still involved in politics, and I really don't like that shot.

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And so I'm just gonna sit here. There we go. I just don't like that one.

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I just, it's just, I don't know. Anyway, many of you have seen or heard of the exchange that he had with Russell Vought.

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I would say Vought. I guess some people say Vought. But anyway, it is truly amazing to listen to a senator of the

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United States demonstrate that not only does he not care about how this nation was founded or who founded it, does not care about the original intent of the

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Constitution. This is a man who has no interest in the Constitution of the United States. It's obvious. But who is also so closed -minded that he demands that we all think the way he thinks.

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So much so that, as someone has said on Twitter, liberalism today, where a man can be a woman but not a

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Christian. Yeah, that's exactly what we're looking at. And we can wonder about Sanders' utter ignorance of Christianity, possibly.

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I don't think it's ignorance. I just think it is the absolute rejection of the idea that Christianity can be self -defining.

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That Christianity gets to define Jesus Christ is the only way, the truth, the life.

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And if God has acted decisively in Jesus Christ, then to say otherwise is to fundamentally reject the gospel message itself.

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And that that's what he's asking Russell Vought to do. And that's what he is, in essence, saying this nation was not meant for people like this.

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That's bigotry. And the poor guy, you know, he handled it pretty well.

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I guess he probably was expecting the looniness from someone like Sanders. But we need to listen to what he says and watch the color of his face.

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This man becomes livid. He becomes angry at the very idea that someone could believe that all of mankind stands condemned before God.

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Doesn't matter whether you're Muslim, because he's talking about Muslims, or Jews, or false

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Christians. Everyone stands condemned before God. The only way of salvation is in through Jesus Christ.

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Oh, that's just so angry, so mad. That's what he's all about.

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Let's take a look at it and be amazed. That has bothered me and bothered many other people.

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And that is in the piece that I referred to that you wrote for a publication called Resurgent. You wrote, quote,

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Muslims do not simply have a deficient theology. They do not know

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God because they have rejected Jesus Christ, his son, and they stand condemned.

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End of quote. Do you believe, do you believe that that statement is

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Islamophobic? Absolutely not, Senator. I'm a Christian and I believe in a

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Christian set of principles based on my faith. That post, as I stated in the questionnaire to this committee, was to defend my alma mater,

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Wheaton College, a Christian school that has a statement of faith that includes the centrality of Jesus Christ for salvation and -

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Again, I apologize. I do, forgive me. We just don't have a lot of time. Do you believe that people in the

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Muslim religion stand condemned? Is that your view? Again, Senator, I'm a Christian and I wrote that piece -

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According to the statement of faith, Wheaton College - I understand that. I don't know how many Muslims there are in America.

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I really don't know. Probably a couple of million. Are you suggesting that all of those people stand condemned?

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What about Jews? They stand condemned too? Senator, I'm a Christian. I -

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I understand you are a Christian, but this country is made up of people who are not just. I understand that Christianity is the majority.

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See the face of angry secular socialists? He's not listening.

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His - What offends him is the exclusive claim of Jesus Christ. And, of course, if I -

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You know, the poor guy is trying not to get into a theological debate in the Senate, I suppose. But my response would have been,

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Sir, everyone stands condemned in Adam. And unless they are in Jesus Christ, they will not have eternal life.

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That is the message of the gospel. Period. End of discussion. If you don't like that, then what you're saying is you're a

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Christophobe. You know, because the phobe thing is a big thing. If you disagree with somebody, they have a phobia.

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But behold the face of angry, shallow -thinking, totalitarian socialism.

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There it is. Bernie Sanders. But there are other people of different religions in this country and around the world.

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In your judgment, do you think that people who are not Christians are going to be condemned? Thank you for probing on that question.

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As a Christian, I believe that all individuals - That is why I would never make it in politics.

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I'm sorry, but having to say, thank you for probing on that question.

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He's no more thankful that he's probing on that question than he's thankful for getting a rock in his shoe, okay?

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You know, come on, you know. Are made in the image of God and are worthy of dignity and respect regardless of their religious beliefs.

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I believe that as a Christian, that's how I should treat all individuals. And do you think your statement that you put into that -

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I'm sorry, but that's not what I want to hear. I don't care you believe that all men are created in the image of God, and I don't care that therefore you mean they should be treated with respect.

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I think as we get into the rest of the topic today, we'll discover that that's a pretty relevant thing, too.

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Because what we're going to discover is that there may be people on the wild, wild, wild left, like Bernie Sanders, that take these attitudes, but there's people on the wild, wild, wild right that end up marrying him, mirroring him, looking just like him and acting like him, too.

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They do not know God because they've rejected

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Jesus Christ, the Son, and they stand condemned. Do you think that's respectful of other religions? Yes. I wrote a post based on being a

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Christian and attending a Christian school that has a statement of faith that speaks clearly with regard to the centrality of Jesus Christ in salvation.

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I would simply say, Mr. Chairman, that this nominee is really not someone who is what this country is supposed to be about.

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I will vote. This is someone that this country is not supposed to be about, though the founders, not a one of them, even the deists, would have questioned him in this way, would have even been confused about what he said.

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But that's not what this country is about. No, that's not what the revolution is about. That's not what the socialist revolution is about.

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This man, by his action, by his establishing a religious test for service in the government, has disqualified himself.

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He's disqualified himself. This is religious bigotry. He refuses to allow

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Christianity to define itself, he refuses to allow the exercise of Christianity in the United States, and it is repulsive to me and should be repulsive to all of us, but this is what's coming because you—what was his support base?

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What was that man's support base in this last election? The next generation, the millennials, the millennials, this is how they think.

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I know not every single one of them, please. My kids are millennials. They don't think this way, but they look at their own generation and roll their eyes at amazement at how they think.

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But this is what's coming. This is totalitarian thought. There is no concept of liberty.

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There is no concept of any type of depth of thought. And there is no extension of any kind of willingness to allow

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Christians to have the freedom to define their own faith. And you and I sit here and go, wait a minute, stop.

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What do you mean Islamophobic? You can't define my faith on the basis of religion. It didn't exist when my religion was founded.

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What's that all about? So we say ours is the true way. Mr. Sanders, have you read the

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Quran? Have you read how many times it's do not say three? Hellfire for those who say three, you know?

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They are the losers. And do we need to go again, as we have so many times this program, go through surah three and surah four and surah five and mark out what the

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Quran says to Christians? I bet you, I'd be willing, well,

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I'm not a betting man, but I'd be willing to bet something, a dozen Dunkin' Donuts, that Bernie Sanders hasn't a clue what the

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Quran says in condemnation of Christian belief. Not a clue, not a clue.

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So if this man's statement is Islamophobic, then the

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Quran is Christophobic, right? Yeah. Well, anyways, we're trying to get individuals from the far left to reason is next to impossible.

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And that unfortunately is the reality of what we face today. So how do

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I make a transition from that to the rest of the conversation that we need to have today?

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Well, the transition is just found in this. I see direct connections between Bernie Sanders' attitude and the attitude that has been expressed toward me.

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Last evening, a fellow came into channel and he says, so does

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Sam Shamoon write about anything other than hating you? And I'm like, what now? Because back on June 1st,

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Mr. Shamoon had posted an article on Facebook. I had chosen not to say anything about it.

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Mr. Shamoon's articles get, you know, a half dozen, dozen notes, you know, people saying they like it or something like that.

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So just, you know, leave it alone. But in it, he had again attacked me.

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The gentleman is posting just, you know, Steven Anderson videos and just all sorts of wild eyed, strange stuff.

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And it's just all over the board. His theology has been changing and he's been embracing this and that and just all over the planet.

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And he, in this article, accused me of being demonized.

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So let's be very clear. Sam Shamoon is now saying I am not a Christian. I'm an unbeliever, false teacher, demonized.

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I mean, we're talking all out, you know, just complete condemnation from his perspective.

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So I don't want to hear anybody saying, well, you shouldn't talk about Sam. Look, if the man's gonna, the man's been on my program before.

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I have said, he has said wonderful things about me in the past and vice versa. But something changed and it wasn't me.

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And everybody who watches this program and listens to this program knows it wasn't me. Nothing, I didn't do anything different starting in November of last year when

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Sam Shamoon started to attack me. Actually, December, I think. But November is when he went silent and December is when he started moving to attack me.

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I haven't changed. He likes to point to the ostracized stuff. That was well after that. He was attacking me well before that.

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That's just a convenient excuse on his part. We've had him on the program and I just simply have to make the official statement in light of what he's now doing and the fact that he's now behind this most recent attack upon me.

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We just simply have to warn people. We have once in the past said, here's a great source of information.

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We cannot say it anymore. We have to warn you off. Churches that recognize the need to control who you have coming into your sanctuary to give you information.

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You've just got to recognize that is no longer a reliable source in any way, shape, or form.

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In that article where he attacked me as being demonized and things like that, a comment was made.

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I cannot repeat the comment. We have the comment. We can document it. We have the screenshot of it by Dr.

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Robert Morey. Dr. Morey made a comment in regards to Sam Shamoon's materials and statements that was vile, profane, utterly beneath any

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Christian theologian—good grief—any Christian period. It was not a

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Christian statement. It was sinful, and Sam Shamoon liked it. And in so doing, disqualified himself—well, obviously,

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Robert Morey disqualified himself by even writing it, and then Sam Shamoon by not rebuking him and liking it himself.

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And so, the thought crossed my mind, that's amazing, that's shocking, it's sad, but I have more important things to do.

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Well, last night, I was given this link, and it is to Brandon House, Worldview Weekend.

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And I've known a little bit about Brandon House. I've never met him. His name came up a lot with the Chris Pinto stuff a couple years ago in regards to Codex Sinaiticus.

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And so, you know, he's been on the periphery of my recognition of who's out there and who's doing what.

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And so, I follow the link, and here is this program. It's going to be a three -part program. I guess the second part is probably being posted right now or has been posted recently.

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I'll probably grab it, take it on a ride tomorrow. And it is an attack upon yours truly, and it is written in such a way.

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Now, I thought I had it up here. Could somebody throw the link up real quick? Because I wanted to read the description.

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Sorry, I must have reset my system at some point or something along those lines. So, someone grab me the

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URL real quick. That would be very useful and put it in the channel for me.

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But I started reading the description, and there are three gentlemen involved, one of whom

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I'd never heard of before at all. Brandon House, of course, is the individual who is the host of the program.

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And he covers a lot of stuff. It's hard to describe, but the commercials during the program were for grapeseed extract drinks.

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And then there's some kind of a conference they've got coming up. Basically, it's, are you going to be ready when

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ISIS attacks? And what if your kids are in the pool? And how do they respond? I need that link.

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There we go. This kind of stuff. So, sort of that kind of thing.

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No, that's not it. That's a shame. I apologize, folks.

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I had it up, and it just disappeared. And probably because I had to reset my system or something like that.

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But anyways, it was all about shocking audio. And I may just have to stop and find it myself here.

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I don't know where it was. Sorry, folks.

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Sorry, folks. The audio.

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I know. Finally, thank you. Y 'all let me down today.

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Normally, the channel's pretty quick. But today, everyone's chatting about something else and not listening here.

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Here it is. Sadly and shockingly, we must report that Christian author and radio host

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James White has sat for a self -described dialogue with Yasser Qadhi, nothing like being a number of months behind, a

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Muslim imam from Memphis that has very troubling alliances and has made very troubling statements.

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James White claims that Yasser Qadhi is a moderate Muslim and has said that Yasser has mentored him and instructed him as to what is the real

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Islam. I love the spin. The spin we're going to get out of all this is astounding.

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Throughout this, I'm going to be playing their comments. I'm going to let them speak for themselves.

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I'm almost never quoted. That's just how it works. We let the other side speak, accurately respond.

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When people criticize us, not so much. But the spin in this thing is absolutely astounding.

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Have I said that I learned a lot from Yasser Qadhi? You bet. You bet. And I've learned a lot from a lot of people.

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And I'm actually going to be attacked. It's funny. Shamoon on one side will attack me for not being an expert in Islam. And then these guys attack me for admitting

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I'm a student of Islam. So evidently, you have to claim to be an expert. You know, it's sort of the, you need to make big claims for yourself type stuff, or they won't really listen to you.

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But I learned a lot from Yasser Qadhi, and I've learned a lot from a number of other people. And what's sad is, all three of these gentlemen show themselves utterly unwilling to learn from someone like Yasser Qadhi, because they don't feel like they have anything to learn.

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And you see, that's an attitude that I see on both sides. It's so sad when I talk with Muslims, and it's very clear to me, they don't feel like they need to learn anything about what

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I believe. They think they've already got it figured out. And it's sad to see that attitude on the other side.

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I never want to get to the point where I arrive and say,

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I don't need to listen to anybody else. I've got it all figured out.

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I started studying Islam in 2006. That's too late in life to ever truly master all of the subject.

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Now, these men claim that they've done it. I don't see evidence of it, but they claim it.

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Okay, I'll put my work, my books and my debates up against their work. And instead of asking people to judge that,

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I'll ask the Lord to judge it, and I'll be happy with that. So anyway, Howse, Hadian, and Dakdak reveal why they believe

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Yasser is not a moderate Muslim, and how white is being deceived by a Muslim man practicing taqiyah. Ah, yes, there is the term.

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See, they don't believe that Yasser Qadhi is telling the truth about what he believes.

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He's deceiving us. And once you buy that, once you buy the idea that everyone who has a view other than your own is simply lying, that's the end of the conversation.

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There's no more dialogue. You're not going to reach that community. You're not going to have the opportunities that I have had in reaching out to Muslims and speaking to Muslims.

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That's it. It's done. It's you versus them. All you can do now is have war, because you're not going to reach them in any other way.

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That's it. It's done. Yasser Qadhi has memorized the entire

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Quran, and thus would know about the practice of taqiyah, and allows Muslims to deceive non -Muslims. Today, Todd begins a series of programs in which we will play audio clips in the so -called dialogue.

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So -called dialogue? It was a dialogue. In fact, I asked Brandon Howse on Twitter, because he started to respond to me.

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I asked Brandon Howse. I said, it seems to me, and I'll play the clip, it seems to me that you haven't even listened to the second part of the dialogue.

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It doesn't even seem like you listened to where I had the opportunity of presenting the Trinity, and the necessity of the cross, and the necessity of the death of Jesus Christ in the mosque, where you will never go, and you will never have the opportunity of doing that, because of your attitude, unless you change,

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I suppose. Doesn't even seem like you took the time to do that. In fact, this whole thing seems to have been thrown together, probably, and they specifically mentioned

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Sam Shamoun, probably at Shamoun's, you know, assistance, and the amount of research that was done here was minuscule.

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Minuscule! And yet, on the basis of that, Brandon, Sharam, and Usama believe that what

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James White has done and said is an example of a fast -growing apostasy. So, I'm an apostate.

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I'm involved in apostasy among so -called evangelicals when it comes to confronting and exposing Islam and its deceptive tactics.

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Apparently, White is not an expert on Islam, and does not understand how Islam co -opts pastors and Christian authors to make them their useful idiots.

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Now, that term came straight from Shamoun, and it's repeated numerous times in the program. Don't miss even one episode of this series.

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So, there is the description. Now, let me play something for you.

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This is just a, here, here's a condensation of how

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Brandon House and Usama and the other fellow that I didn't even know, this is how they refer to Christian ministers who have done more than 40 moderated public debates with Muslims around the world, who have done hundreds of hours of teaching on the

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Quran, on the Hadith, here on this program, which they have never listened to. It's obvious they have, they don't have a clue.

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In fact, I don't have any, I don't have any grounds in what they've said for believing they've ever listened to a single debate.

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I don't have any grounds for believing they've ever read this. All I know is they're going on second -hand information.

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And yet, despite all of that, despite 30 years of ministry, 159 moderated public debates, this is what they can say.

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Until at least he comes out and publicly acknowledges what he's done is a, wrong, and b, he just,

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I believe, became a useful idiot for Islam. That's my opinion. What do you say? Who are knowledgeable in Islam.

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You're absolutely right that I believe he's disqualified himself. I don't see him repenting, because I think he's committed to his notion that he's being a true

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Christian, but James White has fallen for it, and unfortunately is being a useful idiot. Already, the last hour, to some expert on the topic of Islam, and like brother

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Sam Shimon, and Sam Shimon has condemned everything happening in that interfaith meeting, and he knows about it for a long time.

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I'm going to have a long conversation with him after the show, but he told me he has no respect for James White at all.

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Zero respect. And if Sam Shimon and I, and here our dear brother is in agreement,

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I'm sorry, American church, the Christian believers need to rest in peace that there is no truth about anything you can hear from James White at all.

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And sadly, he put this big worm in James White's mouth without knowing that in this worm there's a big hook.

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So he actually is using James White to accomplish the early stages of the invading of America, which is simply represent

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Islam to be an interfaith religion and a loving, peaceful religion of,

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I call them useful idiot ministers. Well, James White is an embarrassment.

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I can't say it any other way. He's an embarrassment to Christianity at this point without repentance. We'll pick it up more tomorrow.

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Yeah, and I guess they have picked it up. Someone on Twitter says they've already posted the second hour of Falsehoods on Parade, should be the name for the program, as we are now going to begin to document.

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And so, obviously, I'm in a very difficult position here because I do not want to go down to the level of Brandon House and these men in how they have treated me, the disrespectfulness, the complete ignoring of decades worth of work.

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If Brandon House were treated by someone else the way he's treated me, he would recognize just the sub -Christian character that he's demonstrated.

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And to be honest with you, the primary reason that I even feel the necessity of doing this, other than the slanderous attacks upon this ministry and upon the work that we're doing, whenever I see things like this,

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I'm always reminded, as you get older, there aren't a lot of advantages to getting older, the aches and the pains and, as my granddaughter says, your hair falls off, stuff like that.

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But one of the advantages of getting older is that you can look back, if you've been a

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Christian, as I have for, wow, yeah, 50 years, for as long as I've been a

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Christian, is you can see how many times God has taken things that, at the time, seemed just so bad and, over time, has made something good come out of it.

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When I first read Norman Geisler's book, I was like, oh, this is going to confuse so many people. You know how many people have come to know the truth, how many churches have been founded and given direction because of what happened as a result of the response to Chosen but Free and the

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Potter's Freedom, stuff like that? At the time, I couldn't see that. And I have seen so many people, even in this situation, who've contacted me and said, you know,

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I'm so appreciative. The attitude that you have and you try to teach to the rest of us and how we are to approach our

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Muslim friends and neighbors, it's so different than so many people have, and they can tell the difference. It's opened so many doors for me.

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So, if I can, by enduring this kind of, and this is slanderous,

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I mean, it's just slanderous. It's slander just based on abject ignorance.

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It truly is. Ignorance and bigotry. Ignorance on Brandon House's part. He just doesn't know. He's clueless.

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He has no idea. He can't even pronounce Yasir Qadhi's name. And you might say, well, that's not a fair criticism.

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When you take 20 shots at it, if you actually took the time to listen to our dialogues, it wouldn't be difficult to do.

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But he threw this together so fast, he can't even say Yasir Qadhi's name. If you listen to the whole thing, he probably took 20 different shots at it during the first hour.

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Never got it right. It's like, what? It's so piecemeal and just thrown together without any meaningful attempt to be careful or anything like that at all.

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It's just sad. But this kind of behavior, what it does, it has demonstrated to the

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Muslims that there is a clear distinction between the motivations of many

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Christians and their approach to them. And what it's proven beyond a shadow of a doubt is that there are

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Christians whose motivations are proper and appropriate in their responding to Islamic claims.

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Unfortunately, it's also proven that there are people who have the wrong motivations. Their motivations are primarily, they like to argue, they like to get their apologetic swords wet with the blood of their enemies.

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But there are some of us who actually seek to consistently adorn the gospel of Jesus Christ, be consistent, and actually listen.

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And to actually allow the other side to define their position, rather than us sitting over here saying, no, no, no, no, no, true

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Islam is this. And if you disagree with that, then you're engaging in taqiyyah and you're a liar.

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That's what many people, there are those in the apologetic community, they have developed a set of arguments, and it's only good against a certain spectrum of Islam.

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So what they say is, that's all that is Islam, everything else isn't Islam, because I'm too lazy to develop arguments to everything else.

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That's the problem. When you don't have a fully biblical, full -orb theology, when your primary focus is tearing down Islam, rather than presenting the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ, it will pervert things.

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It will distort things. And it's a problem. So let's get to it. Let's hear what was said.

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I was in the office and working by 8 a .m. this morning. I've been working for five hours straight to collect the audio clips you're about to hear, to do the research you're about to have presented to you, and so has

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Yusama Dakdak, and so has Shuram Hadian. And they both join me now to discuss something

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I stumbled onto a couple days ago. Okay, so a couple days ago,

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Brennan House stumbles onto something. I'm not sure how he stumbled onto it. Maybe it was sent to him by someone.

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It's a possibility. But, oh, five hours. Ooh, that's a long time.

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No, it's not. It would have taken more than five hours to listen to both dialogues in a meaningful fashion and then go,

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I wonder if there's been follow -up discussion. Where could I find that? Oh, I don't know.

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Maybe Alpha Omega Ministries posts things online somewhere. Maybe there's a search engine.

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Because pretty much everything here was addressed in the weeks after the dialogue.

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And so there's no lack of information that would have been available to Mr. House, but he did not avail himself of that, which means he is willing to accuse

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Christian ministers of apostasy on the basis of his lack of meaningful research.

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Hmm, okay. All right. I did not know about this. This happened in my own hometown here.

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Did not know about it until I stumbled on it onto YouTube. I was researching this

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Yasser Kwade guy who is at the Rhodes College here in town in the Islamic center of Memphis.

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And when I was researching him and playing on YouTube, some of his statements, I see over on the side, a right -hand panel where James White is in a dialogue with Yasser Yadi.

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And I'm like, really? And so I started watching that and it took place in January, right here in our backyard, literally just a few miles from our studio.

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And I didn't know about it. So Brandon's way behind the curve.

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There's been lots of discussion about this for a long, long time, and he's just now caught up. And is just gonna run into it full steam ahead without doing the necessary homework to really have any idea what he's talking about.

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And it looks as though there was a two -night event.

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One night was at a Protestant church. I don't know what is going on with that Protestant church.

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And we have been able, we have tracked it down what church it is. Well, I don't know what they're thinking. They clearly, I think, have become so open -minded, their brains have fallen out.

35:20

That's my opinion. I mean, otherwise, why would you allow this to take place at your Protestant Bible church? Well, there you go.

35:26

That gives you immediately the attitude. The attitude is, I'm not even going to listen to why these people did it.

35:32

In fact, when we get to the end, and he starts playing just the first few sentences of my introduction to the evening, he can't even listen with a small semblance of fairness.

35:48

I mean, it's just mocking. It's just, well, here, okay, I'm at,

35:54

I love Audio Notetaker. I can remember where I am up there. Here, listen. Listen, this is the end of the program, so we don't have to play it at the end.

36:02

But this is the end of the program. Listen to this. This evening, for a very, very long time, it has been my desire to engage in a dialogue like this, and when the opportunity came that I'd be coming into this area,

36:15

I contacted Dr. Cotty, and I put out the call, and the church here was so kind to respond and to join with us in providing a place for us to have our conversation this evening.

36:27

I want you to understand what our motivations are this evening in coming together.

36:32

This is not a debate. Some of you have seen debates that I have done around the world.

36:39

Unlike Brandon House and his guests, evidently. This is not intended to be a debate. We are going to, of necessity, discuss differences that we have.

36:50

The thing that makes this wonderful, and the reason that I sought out Dr. Cotty, aside from the fact that I've learned so much from him over the years...

36:59

Yeah! So you, obviously, Brandon, you've never learned anything from a Muslim, have you?

37:05

Which probably explains why you don't know anything about Islam. That attitude, to me, is disgusting.

37:13

I'm sorry. It's utterly and completely inappropriate for a Christian. If I said that about a

37:21

Mormon... I had a dialogue with Alma Allred up at the

37:28

University of Utah last June. Was that last June or June before that? I think it was last June. Anyways, one of the past two

37:34

Junes. That's what happens when you get old. Anyway, I learned a lot about Mormonism from Alma Allred.

37:42

Would you go, eh, about that? Probably you would.

37:48

I've learned about Jehovah's Witnesses from Greg Stafford. You mean you've got it all figured out,

37:54

Brandon? It seems one of the two of us recognizes that we are not geniuses, and we still need to learn, and we need to have solid sources to learn from.

38:04

It's okay to learn from people you disagree with. You seem to have the rather fundamentalist mindset that you can't learn from anyone who doesn't look like you, act like you, and talk like you.

38:18

I'm going to tell you something, folks. That attitude turns my stomach. It turns my stomach.

38:27

I am so thankful that I went to a seminary where I had to learn to be discerning. I had to learn from people who didn't look like me, who didn't necessarily talk like me.

38:36

I had to learn to discern. I had to learn to learn from people, and yes, reject some of their conclusions.

38:45

But my goodness, there is nothing more arrogant than an individual who can have that attitude.

38:52

I can't learn anything about Islam from a Muslim scholar. I mean, oh my goodness.

39:01

Don't worry, that came from me. The messages, the messages. Just a pretty sound, pretty sound.

39:10

Anyway, that's just, I'm, do forgive me. Over the years, he's been a primary influence in my study of Islam.

39:19

I am a student of Islam and I've learned much from him. You know what?

39:27

If you listened to his 16 CD series called Light and Guidance, you'd learn something too. And that might make you a better instrument in the

39:35

Lord's hand to reach Muslims. Do you want to reach them,

39:40

Brandon? Do you want to? I don't see any evidence of this in this discussion.

39:46

That's one of the things that really scared me. I specifically sought him out is because I sense in him such a kindred spirit on the other side.

39:54

Oh, oh, well, why did I find in him a kindred spirit? Well, I explained it. Of the chasm that divides us in regards to our theology and our beliefs.

40:03

He is a consistent Muslim. He believes what he says. How do you know that? How do

40:09

I know that? Because I've actually listened to him for hours, which you haven't.

40:16

I've listened to him talking to wide audiences. I've listened to him talking to Muslim audiences over years.

40:23

You haven't. You don't know what you're talking about, Brandon. What kind of arrogance is it for you to sit there and prejudge this man in this way?

40:36

How can you do that? I don't get it. I'm sorry. I don't understand that.

40:42

Maybe you're just that much more brilliant than I am, but I don't understand it.

40:51

How do you know that? Oh, man. Now, by the way, how many sentences have

41:01

I gotten through here? And listen to the attitude of this man. I can fully understand, even if he did listen to these dialogues, he's not going to hear what we were saying.

41:11

This man's not listening to why we're doing what we're doing. He has no interest in what our motivations were, what our true motivations were.

41:19

He thinks he can just, I know what you people are thinking, and this is what you should be thinking. Muslim come together and say, we need to discuss not only what divides us, but also where do we have similarities?

41:32

How? Oh, I have to pick this up tomorrow. Uh, this, uh, Sharam, what do you think of James White now?

41:40

And that's where he said, I'm an embarrassment. I'm an embarrassment to Christianity because I dare, dare to desire to open up meaningful discussion and dialogue.

41:52

These people don't want discussion dialogue. They stay fear it. They abjectly fear it.

42:00

I was having a conversation with another guy, real nice guy, real nice guy really is love the guy, but he's, he's the absolute epitome of this.

42:11

You, you can't let Muslims talk to Christians. They might become Muslims. And I said, so you, you think that Christ's sheep can, can be deceived?

42:24

Well, he doesn't believe in election. He doesn't have a sound theology. And so as a result, your apologetics flows from your theology.

42:36

So anyway, uh, back up to where we were, uh, we continue on.

42:43

But the second night apparently was held actually as at the Islamic center of Memphis. Now twice in this conversation, he says, apparently it, it communicated to me and I asked him and he stopped talking to me.

42:54

Um, I asked him on Twitter, have you watched the second night? You know, that's the second night that these critics never talk about.

43:02

Have you noticed that? They never ever talk about the second night. And if you've watched it, you, you know what the second night was about.

43:12

You know, that Yasir Qadhi, um, first question that he asked after a very nice introduction, um, asked me, look, um, we

43:24

Muslims can't understand the doctrine of the Trinity. Can you explain it to us? Uh, why did

43:30

Jesus have to die? What's the necessity of that? And I had full reign to address these issues.

43:41

And I mentioned afterwards, I, and again, because Brandon House won't do his homework and just rushes into these things.

43:50

Cause it looked like good clickbait, I guess. Um, and because Usama and the other gentlemen, uh, evidently didn't do their homework either.

44:01

They probably didn't hear about what happened after, uh, the second night.

44:09

Well, even after the first night, someone on Twitter said I was, I appreciate the guy on Twitter said

44:14

I was at both of those dialogues and these people have no earthly idea the, um, opportunities that were opened up for us in this area because of that.

44:24

And it, it does just, one of the things that does anger me here is the, uh, disrespect that Brandon House showed toward the church that hosted this.

44:37

They've taken, I told them they're going to take heat and they have, but not from the Muslims, but from people like this, people who do not want to open those doors that they, they fear it.

44:47

They fear it. And they will attack anyone who reaches out in this way.

44:54

Uh, the greatest opposition to really reaching out in love to Muslims with a knowledge of what they believe to really present to them a meaningful understanding of the, of the

45:04

Trinity and the person of Christ and how it all fits together. It's not the Muslims. It's fearful, tradition bound, bigoted

45:12

Christians. Those are the, that's primary opposition. That's primary opposition right there. Um, anyways, they, the night of the first night, first night at the, at the, at the church when it was over,

45:29

I've mentioned to you that there were three Muslim men that as they were leaving, they came up to me to greet me, to thank me for the evening.

45:40

And after we shook hands, I said, let me, let me ask you something. Did you feel welcomed here this evening?

45:49

And the man in the center, his eyes teared up and he looked at me and he said,

45:55

I didn't think this was possible. I didn't think this was possible. So tell me who has the opportunity of presenting the claims of Jesus Christ to a heart that might hear, the people of that church, myself, or these people who will blast away at them?

46:19

Oh, I don't believe that. They're, they just want to kill you. It's Takiyah. Who do you think?

46:27

Hmm. Yeah. Then the second night, oh, second night after my talk at the mosque, we're having cookies, things

46:38

I shouldn't have been eating, but when I travel, I always do. Um, and, uh, these two young ladies come up to me.

46:46

One primarily spoke to me, but the other, there was another with her, full hijab, beautiful floral pattern hijab.

46:53

And she said, may I ask you a question? Thank you for coming. Uh, but could I ask you a question?

47:02

And she said, could you, could you tell me how you understand the relationship between Roman pagan religion, um, and the definition of the

47:16

Trinity at the Council of Nicaea? And for 10 minutes,

47:22

I got to speak on Ignatius and the testimony of the deity of Christ long before the

47:29

Council of Nicaea and what the Council of Nicaea actually did and what Constantine's real role was. And she listened to every single word.

47:38

And I obviously gave her a basis for, for doing more research and looking into that subject.

47:45

Here was a thoughtful young Muslim woman. And what, and the reason

47:54

I'm doing this is because the attitude of Brannan House and Osama and this realm of Christian apologetics to Muslims will never have the opportunity of talking to that young woman.

48:16

As long as you sit there in your arrogance and tell the

48:21

Muslim, Oh, no, you don't believe that you believe this. They'll never listen to you. You know,

48:26

I know that because when anybody comes up to me and tells me what

48:31

I must believe, Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. You, you, you are responsible for the crusades. Wait, wait, wait, wait. I need to make a distinction here.

48:38

I'm not a Roman Catholic. I reject. It doesn't matter. That's the true Christianity. Is Roman Catholic? No, it's not.

48:43

Yes, it is. No, it's not. I have no respect for this person. None. They're not going to get anywhere with me.

48:51

So who do you think you are to turn it around and do it to them? That's what you're doing. Oh, but, but Islam's monolithic.

49:00

Islam's monolithic. There's only one true Islam. There's only one true Christianity. Well, I suppose in God's eyes, but so that means your denominations, the exact right denominations, no differences of opinion at all.

49:14

We all know exactly what it's supposed to be, right? I keep getting in trouble with this consistency thing.

49:20

Just, um, well, uh, we continue on here. And they're dialoguing.

49:29

James White and Yasser Khadeh, or Khadeh. How do you say his name, Usama? He's not an

49:37

Arab name. It is a Pakistani name. So obviously you can say it however you want. Khadeh, whatever you want to say.

49:43

I have no idea what the meaning, I don't even know the name, the meaning of his name because it's not an Arabic name.

49:48

It's been pointed out, it means judge, that it exists in the Arabic language. And so we, it certainly makes you wonder,

49:57

I'm sorry, but how can you have not listened enough to even know how to say the man's name?

50:05

I'm sorry, but talk about face -plantingly bad. Oh, boy.

50:12

Brother Brandon, brother Brandon, if you don't mind. Yeah. Can we talk a little bit about the subject before we get to the subject?

50:19

Now, Brandon wanted to go into the clips pretty quickly. They got to like one clip in the first hour, maybe two, two

50:25

I think. Um, instead the other guys wanted to talk about all sorts of other things. And so here we go into, now,

50:34

I hope you all are sitting down because regular listeners to this program, uh, you're actually going to hear, if you want to know how ignorant and people, oh, that's insulting.

50:48

No, if you act on the basis of no, having no knowledge, not doing your homework, you're acting on the basis of ignorance.

50:56

These men are ignorant. They're acting on the basis of ignorance. They may be my brothers, but they have attacked me out of ignorance.

51:06

They're actually going to say that this dialogue we did was an interfaith dialogue.

51:13

Like Rick Warren wants to do. Yeah.

51:18

Like Rick Warren wants to do. Anybody who has ever watched any of my debates who knows anything about me knows that that is absurd as the day is long.

51:29

It is an absurdity. It is a laughable absurdity. And if you listened to the dialogues, we specifically repudiated any such idea repudiated it.

51:42

We said, we are not up here to have the kind of dialogue where we all sweep our differences under the rug and sing

51:50

Kumbaya. That's exactly what they're saying we're doing. So we said, this is not what we're doing.

51:56

And their review is this is what they're doing. And you just go, did you did you even listen?

52:04

I have no evidence they did. I have no evidence they did. We're talking about an interfaith meeting.

52:11

I don't think our audience understand all what we're talking about because they're not with us so far in the topic.

52:17

So here we go. A Christian man, a reformer meeting with a

52:22

Muslim man, a Muslim jihadi smart one. A Muslim jihadi, a jihadi.

52:31

That's what what has what has Yasser Qadhi done?

52:37

But, you know, I press on.

52:44

I'm sorry. Not the dumb ones who speak their mind without thinking in a church and do an interface.

52:54

Can we talk a little bit about this interfaith movement before we get into the things you talk about?

53:00

Sure. Sure. Go ahead. All right. So now we're going to find out what Usama thinks about the interfaith movement, which neither of us are a part of.

53:11

In fact, I even mentioned, Yasser Qadhi said to me, he said, you know, these, you know,

53:16

I get invited to these interfaith things all the time, but the reality is I share more in common with you all than I do with liberal

53:22

Christians. We have much more in common in regards to social issues, things like that, than I do with these others, but I can't get any of you to talk to me.

53:30

And I said, because we're afraid. That's why. That's the reasoning.

53:37

These are all accusations that were refuted in the course of the dialogue. So they either have to say that both of us are doing taqiyah, that both of us are lying, or these people somehow have a supernatural way of reading our minds that even we don't know.

53:52

I mean, that's the only thing you can do. Well, what is interfaith? It is a meeting between some

54:00

Christians who may know Christianity, but they do not know it's right, and Muslims who know

54:05

Islam very well, because if that imam, Yasser, was not a scholar in Islam, he memorized the

54:12

Quran since he was a little boy, okay? If he is not a very expert on Islam, he will not be involved in interfaith meetings.

54:18

And the interfaith meeting will not benefit Christians a dime, but it will benefit the

54:23

Muslims. I promise you. Now, did you catch that? It won't benefit Christians a dime.

54:30

Open up opportunities of witness, break down walls of prejudice, help people understand and communicate the

54:36

Gospel better. If that's not your goal, if that's not why you're doing what you're doing, then

54:41

I suppose it's not worth a dime. But if you actually want to reach out to them, communicate the truth to them in love, well, then it's worth a whole lot more than a dime, isn't it?

54:54

That video which you stumbled on, Brother Brennan, will be used as a foundation for future invasion to many, many churches all over America.

55:03

So future invasion of many, many churches in America. You know what?

55:09

If they get to have as honest and clear a discussion, I sure hope so.

55:15

And I sure hope we get to go into as many mosques too, huh? Because you see, neither one of us compromised what we believed.

55:23

We laid that out from the start. And if you don't start a review of those dialogues from that, by noting that, by saying, you know, we need to, we need to, we got to be honest because we claim to be

55:34

Christians from the start. Both of them said, they emphasized to say no compromise.

55:40

We both believe what we believe. We're going to stay consistent with that and we're going to have a respectful discussion in light of the reality of our disagreements.

55:52

And they're afraid of that. Not allowed to happen. Not allowed to happen. But any review should start by saying, well, they did lay that out.

56:01

Never mentioned. Never mentioned. So what is in the peace movement here is

56:06

Christians and Muslims and Jews and Buddhists and everybody else will hold hands and sing

56:13

Kumbaya. Which is the exact thing we said we are not doing.

56:18

So Osama, why did you say this? It's a lie. It is a flat -out, 100 % lie.

56:24

You claim to be a Christian, sir. Why are you lying in public? This is a question that we need to ask.

56:31

Why are you lying in public? What's your motivation?

56:37

What's your reason? We specifically said that is not what we are here doing. You say the opposite.

56:44

That makes you a person guilty of lying. Can you please explain why or do the right thing as a

56:53

Christian? Repent. Withdraw. Apologize. That's the best thing to do.

57:00

The only group would benefit from that meeting, as you're going to see in this next broadcast, are only the

57:06

Muslims. Because their voice will be showing the beautiful loud voice with all the beautiful colors and no truth about Islam anymore.

57:15

And what is the mark of the interfaith movement is this. Muslims can talk about Islam for two, four, six hours without mentioning a verse from the

57:24

Quran. I think Yasir Qadhi did mention some verses from the Quran and it wasn't four to six hours either.

57:32

Or a statement of Muhammad in the Hadith, which means... Yeah, we talked about the

57:37

Hadith, too. Yeah, we did. ...ignorant Christian with a smart, intelligent...

57:43

I'm the ignorant Christian, by the way. Yeah, that's me over here. ...Muslims present to the

57:49

American people propaganda Islam to make us believe that Islam can coexist with everybody else and we should all get together and we should look at what united us, not what divided us.

58:03

We started off by saying we are divided and we need to understand what divides us and we need to understand it accurately.

58:13

We never downplayed it. I've never downplayed it. I have done probably, what, 15 times the number of debates this man has done on these very subjects around the world.

58:27

How dare you, sir? How dare you? It's astounding.

58:35

We did one thing, what you're describing is something completely different. How about some truthfulness? We're supposed to be

58:41

Christians. Christians are supposed to be truthful, right? Why aren't you being truthful? And is there anything between can unite

58:50

Islam and Christianity, which is obviously a lie from the bottom of hell? Of course it is.

58:56

Word I say, a single thing. I demand, Usama, I demand that you document where I've ever said anything other, where I've ever even suggested that we can just get together and forget about our differences.

59:11

There's nothing in that dialogue that says that. There's nothing in any debate, anything I've ever written. Nothing. Anywhere.

59:20

So what are you talking about? Brandon, why do you allow this kind of thing on your program?

59:26

You don't even know enough about what I've said to even realize that the guy's completely snowballing you. Do you do that a lot on your program?

59:36

That is an interfaith movement. It started with, I mean, this is not just James White.

59:42

I believe we have, what's his name, this famous preacher from California, that preacher, what's his name?

59:48

I remember now. Rick Warren. You're thinking of Rick Warren? Rick Warren, yeah, Rick Warren was a big, big, into the interfaith movement, and so on.

59:57

Many of the liberal evangelicals, they're not Christians, they're just Baptists or whatever names you're going to give them, but they have nothing to do with Christianity.

01:00:06

So now we just, I just want our audience to understand. So all of a sudden, Usama gets to know what has nothing to do with Christianity, too.

01:00:12

That's, I'm glad that they're so quick to be able to judge. What we're talking about here, it is a propaganda

01:00:19

Islam interfaith movement in our church. Yeah, and also, James White, he's not some mainstream mainline—

01:00:29

Let me put it this way, he has done some debates, but he has done debates like James Swagger. Did you catch that?

01:00:36

Yeah, I heard that. I want people to hear this. Usama actually said that my debates are like Jimmy Swagger's debate with Ahmadiyya.

01:00:49

And I mean, it's so false that I can't even be offended by it.

01:01:01

Only six months ago, eight months ago, even Sam Shimon would have laughed at something like that.

01:01:07

It would have just torn something like that apart. Now we'd agree with it. But but it says more about Sam than anything else.

01:01:13

But I've used the Swagger debate as an example many, many times.

01:01:20

And I just look, you just simply have to say to anybody, anybody who can listen to the debates that I've done with Shabir Ali in South Africa, or Yusuf Ismail, or, you know, the debates in London with Adnan Rashid or Abdullah Andalusi or Bassam Zawadi, and think that they have any parallel whatsoever with Jimmy Swagger's face -plantingly bad encounter with Ahmadiyya, is just, you know, the only comment you can make is what color is the sky in your world?

01:02:01

Because this is not a person who's really touching on reality well. That's the best you can say.

01:02:08

There is a bigotry and a bias and a prejudice here that is so strong that you just go, whoa, wow, not really good with reality, are we?

01:02:18

It's, oof, that's... I mean, Jim Swagger did a debate a good 27 years ago, 28 years ago,

01:02:27

I remember, because I was in Egypt, and it was a big debate. But guess what? Ahmad Didat, in my opinion, won the debate.

01:02:34

Of course he did. Wasn't even close. Wasn't even close. Why? Because with all respect to Jim and all other people who...

01:02:44

Now listen carefully here now, because evidently we do have the living expert on Islam here now.

01:02:52

He's got it all. These interviews, if you are not an expert in Islam, leave it alone, because you're going to hurt

01:02:59

Christianity more than helping Christianity. So you need to be an expert in Islam, but evidently not an expert in Christianity.

01:03:07

Hmm, that's interesting. Jim Swagger said, I do not know hardly anything about the

01:03:12

Qur 'an. I never read the Qur 'an. Well, if you do not know the Qur 'an, you're disqualified to speak about Islam, and we're going to prove it.

01:03:18

There's no question that Jimmy Swagger should not have debated Ahmad Didat. There's no...

01:03:24

What? Oh, oh, you mean, I forgot to bring the matches in.

01:03:34

Yeah. Well, that's Jimmy Swagger. Oh, part of his head just came off. Sorry about that.

01:03:42

Put him back over there, poor little guy. Okay, yeah, the straw man should have been dancing around on top of the thing here for quite some time during this particular presentation.

01:03:51

From the words of James White here, who was trying to speak for the Muslims about Islam without having a clue what he's doing.

01:03:59

Don't have a clue! I don't have a clue. Sam Shimon, you think this is a good book?

01:04:08

Recommend it to lots of folks. And I don't think

01:04:14

Usama's read it. No, I don't think so. Don't have a clue! All those debates with Shabir Ali, and...

01:04:22

Don't have a clue. Not a clue. If you can take this type of argumentation seriously,

01:04:31

I don't even know why you're listening to me anyways, to be perfectly honest with you, because...

01:04:36

And Jimmy, just make it... He's only a Muslim, not Christian. And let me make it clear, James White is not some mainline liberal guy.

01:04:44

I think he's even spoken for John MacArthur's conference, and he's known as being, I think, reformed, and written some wonderful books, and has...

01:04:52

I wonder what books he thinks I've written that are wonderful. Certainly not the King James only controversy. Forgotten Trinity, maybe?

01:04:59

A great job in the area of apologetics with confronting Mormonism and other things, but he clearly,

01:05:05

I believe he's clearly, we're going to see, out of his league, out of his area of expertise, and I want to say this as nicely as I can, because I appreciate some of the work

01:05:13

James has done, and I think we have some people that listen to our program that also listens to James' program. And you may be hearing from them.

01:05:19

But I think he has done a great disservice here, and dare I say, after spending the last couple of days listening...

01:05:26

A couple of days? Wow, thanks, Brandon, for that in -depth study you've done into Islam.

01:05:33

To him, watching these sound clips, and researching who this Yasser Ghadi guy is from right here in our town...

01:05:40

We should have started a list. How many different ways can you slaughter the same word?

01:05:46

I think James White, quite frankly, has perhaps disqualified himself from speaking on any of these theological worldview doctrinal issues.

01:05:55

Yeah, I haven't listened to any of your debates. I haven't read your book on the subject.

01:06:01

But I've listened to some clips. And therefore, you're disqualified. There you go.

01:06:08

There you go. Until at least he comes out and publicly acknowledges what he's done is,

01:06:15

A, wrong, and B, he just, I believe, became a useful idiot for Islam. That's my opinion.

01:06:20

What do you say, Jerome? Yeah, there you go. Useful idiot for Islam. Three times that's what I was putting my fingers up during the thing earlier.

01:06:28

Who are knowledgeable in Islam. You're absolutely right that I believe he's disqualified himself.

01:06:34

I don't see him repenting, because I think he's committed to his notion that he's being a true

01:06:40

Christian. When I watch these videos... Yes. Yes. This gentleman understands something. I do believe that I'm being a true

01:06:49

Christian by speaking the truth in love, by adoring the gospel of Jesus Christ with grace and mercy, and by allowing the person

01:06:56

I'm talking to to find their own faith rather than me telling them what they have to believe. I do believe that that is the proper

01:07:02

Christian approach. Yes. Yes, you're exactly right. Yeah. I do not believe it is Christian to misrepresent people. I do not believe it is

01:07:07

Christian to tell people they have to believe what I think they have to believe, so my apologetic arguments will be used properly against them.

01:07:15

I do not think that that's a Christian approach at all. Yeah, you're exactly right. And the thing that kept coming across was that he's the one who's being the true

01:07:23

Christian. He's the one that's demonstrating the true heart of Christ, yet he admits time and time again, and I think this is to Shama's point, that he is not an expert because he even says...

01:07:35

So if I say I am a student, then that disqualifies me. So these men who are significantly younger than I am,

01:07:44

I don't know. I don't get the feeling. I don't think that they have any advanced degrees.

01:07:52

I don't think that they have decades of teaching biblical languages, systematic theology, church history,

01:07:59

Christian philosophy, apologetics, anything like that. But because I do not use the terminology expert, simply because I...

01:08:14

See, in comparison to the vast majority of Christian ministers, I am an expert in Islam.

01:08:21

In comparison to them. That's because they don't know anything about it. So, you know, you can be, you know, rich as an absolute car expert in comparison to me, because...

01:08:33

And I'm an absolute car expert in comparison to some other people I could mention, so certain people come to mind.

01:08:40

But anyways, um, see, that term expert is sort of a relative thing.

01:08:47

In comparison to some people I am, I'm simply recognizing that the field is so huge that I don't want to set myself up and claim to be something that I'm not.

01:09:00

It doesn't seem like these gentlemen mind setting themselves up to be something that they might be demonstrated they're not.

01:09:09

So... That Yasser Khadi is his mentor. He says that several times in the videos, especially when it comes to Khadi's teachings on the hadith, on the science of the hadith, he says it over and over again.

01:09:23

I was riding my bike and I listened to all your messages and hours of teaching, and you're my mentor on these areas.

01:09:30

You're my mentor on the Arabic. You're my mentor. He says it over and over and over. Actually, what I said was, his pronunciation of Arabic is very clear.

01:09:39

I didn't say he was my mentor. So how can you have a debate and a dialogue with somebody that you're claiming has taught you what to believe?

01:09:48

No, no, no, no, no. Unfortunately, this gentleman, who seems to be the most rational of the three, also misrepresented me over and over again, as we will document.

01:10:02

How can you have a debate slash dialogue? It wasn't a debate. I said at the beginning, it's not a debate. It's not a debate.

01:10:08

It's not a debate. It was a dialogue. So how can I have a dialogue with him? Because, in case you sort of missed this part, because I realize this doesn't enter into you guys' thinking,

01:10:19

Yasser Khadi has learned about Christianity from me. That's sort of how it goes.

01:10:25

Isn't that neat how that works? You know, that person learns from me, I learn from them. We clarify.

01:10:32

That makes me better able to communicate.

01:10:39

Isn't that neat? Oh, it's not neat? Why isn't it neat? Yeah, no, that is exactly the problem.

01:10:47

We have completely different reasons what we're doing. And if you try to do it, yeah, they just have to keep the wall up.

01:10:54

It's in their mind, there's a huge wall, and we're tossing hand grenades over each other. And that's the extent of apologetics.

01:11:00

That's it. And if you try to do something more than that, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

01:11:06

They'll toss hand grenades back at you. You claim that you're actually representing

01:11:12

Islam on behalf of Islam. It is absolutely deceptive.

01:11:19

And not only is Yasser Khadi being deceptive... Why is Yasser Khadi being deceptive? Well, because his understanding of Islam is different than my understanding of Islam.

01:11:27

And here we go back to the same thing again. There are these people who think Islam is a monolithic thing. That is irrational.

01:11:33

Anybody who knows anything about Islamic history, anything about Islamic history, anybody who knows anything about what's going on today knows that there is no monolithic

01:11:45

Islamic position. That is a simplistic mindset. It is fundamentalism brought into apologetics.

01:11:55

And that's why these folks don't do good debates, because they can't really engage the best from the other side, because they're just not doing serious thought.

01:12:01

But James White has fallen for it, and unfortunately, he's being a useful idiot. Useful idiot number two!

01:12:08

Ding, ding, ding, ding. Already, the last hour, to some expert on the topic of Islam.

01:12:13

All right, so here's... you already heard this one. I'm going to go ahead and skip it. That's where he said he was going to be talking with Sam Shamoon and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

01:12:20

Now, I want to make sure our audience understands, Usama, because I know who you're talking about when you talk about Sam, because when

01:12:27

I was researching James White and his interfaith dialogue with Yasser Akkadi, I stumbled on some websites that included this

01:12:36

Sam guy's Facebook page, and he has really taken on James White for doing this.

01:12:43

I mean, he is really taking him on. Who is this guy? Who is the guy? I know who he is now, but tell the audience, who is this

01:12:49

Sam you're talking about? He doesn't... Bran doesn't know who he is. Brandon, until November of last year,

01:12:56

Sam and I were good friends. He's thrown that friendship out. He's betrayed it. Never told me why, other than claiming

01:13:05

I'm just so mean to Christians, which, given what he writes about me, is just like, oh, okay.

01:13:12

But do you have any... you have no idea what you stumbled into here, and yet you're willing to go on national broadcasts.

01:13:23

And tell us about this Sam guy. I just... this is great, you know? It's interesting what they're saying.

01:13:29

Sam Shimon is a Christian apologetic. He does a great job. He knows about Islam very well, as much as he speaks against Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormonism.

01:13:41

He is literally a school. I have a non -profit ministry with him. Our ministry is involved within the straightway, and Sam, for years, we send him a little bit of support, not much, as well as David Wood.

01:13:54

And believe it or not, these two gentlemen will smoke James White about this interfaith meeting.

01:14:04

Smoke? Oh. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, okay. It is sick.

01:14:09

I mean, I literally know about that for quite some time, for a few weeks now, but I never heard this until today, when you send me the link,

01:14:16

Brother Brennan. So, I only heard this today, which means

01:14:21

I haven't even listened to all this. I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm the expert. I am the expert.

01:14:30

I'm sorry. I have to laugh, though. I find it highly offensive. It's offensive for a Christian to behave this way, so I do find it offensive.

01:14:38

But what are you going to do? It's either laugh or cry, one of the two, and I look really bad when

01:14:44

I do either one. Well, I'd like to get him on the program to talk about his position on James White, as well.

01:14:51

Oh, yeah. Good. Yeah. You do that, Brennan. That's fascinating radio. There you go.

01:14:59

Then they went into this long—after the break, they started going into this whole thing about al -Maghrib, and it's the standard genetic fallacy thing that is so common on the internet today.

01:15:13

It's the, well, this guy is associated with that guy. This guy once had lunch with that guy, and that guy once had lunch with that guy.

01:15:18

Therefore, that guy is a jihadi within this group over here. And they just go on and on and on about just how terrible al -Maghrib is and how

01:15:26

Yasir Qadhi is associated with—it would have been nice if there was even a scintilla of fairness in these people's minds to do what

01:15:38

I've done. For example, when I first started listening to Yasir Qadhi, he did pretty much self -identify as a

01:15:50

Salafi. And even when I mentioned him in my book,

01:15:57

I, in a footnote, identified him as a leading Salafi scholar.

01:16:02

Well, right about the time my book came out, he did some interviews where he said,

01:16:08

I once did identify in that way, but I don't any longer, and here's why.

01:16:15

And again, it was fascinating to me, helpful to me, useful to me, to listen to his evolution, his change, his progression, his movement away from that perspective.

01:16:29

That helps me to understand him better, communicate with him better, also helps me to understand the whole background, especially when he speaks out against ISIS and the arguments he makes against ISIS and things like that.

01:16:41

This is extremely helpful, but you won't do it if you don't actually care about what the other side actually is saying or why they're saying it, things like that, which seemingly is the case here.

01:16:54

So they go through this whole long thing about al -Maghrib and how all these people, you know, this man's not a moderate, and, well, they already called him a jihadi and all the rest of that stuff.

01:17:04

To Wahhabism, which, by the way, Kadi denies. There's a

01:17:11

YouTube video that he spoke at where he was refuting this show in the

01:17:17

UK called Dispatches that did undercover work within the mosque there to prove that they were, quote -unquote, radical, and he denies in that program that there is any label such as Wahhabism or Salafism, which, for those who are listening who don't know what that means,

01:17:38

Wahhabism or Salafism is a reform of Islam to take

01:17:43

Islam back to the 7th century Islam, to take it back to the

01:17:50

Islam of Muhammad. And so we know that al -Maghrib is accredited by al -Azhar, which is the most premier

01:17:57

Islamic... Okay, given that I have, again, done my homework and listened to Yasser Khadhi, he had a couple times before our dialogue,

01:18:10

I listened two or three times to an interview he did on NPR, where he talks about who the Wahhabi are, the

01:18:16

Salafi. He doesn't deny that these terms have meaning or anything like that.

01:18:23

He just explains why he doesn't necessarily agree with all the presuppositions they have, why he's moved away.

01:18:29

He doesn't deny that these labels have meaning or that there are people that would be accurately described as that. I have no idea what he's talking about at that point.

01:18:36

But there are a couple times, again, where this guy, who sounds the most rational of the three, just completely misrepresented things, misrepresented

01:18:44

Khadhi as well in his... When he says... Well, we'll hear a little bit later on, but where he disagreed with ISIS and why.

01:18:53

It's like he said, he only did this. I've listened to a number of his talks where he did much more than that.

01:19:00

Maybe I just did more homework than they did. But anyway. And sadly, he put this big worm in James White's mouth without knowing that in this worm there's a big hook.

01:19:13

So he actually is using James White to accomplish the early stages of the invading of America, which is simply represent

01:19:22

Islam to be an interfaith religion and loving, peaceful religion. Loving, peaceful religion.

01:19:28

That's all I've ever said. Yeah, right. I call them useful idiot ministers.

01:19:34

Useful idiot ministers. There's the third time. Just want to make sure we got to that one again.

01:19:41

Yet they're being painted as moderates. Yasser Khadhi is being painted as a moderate, and therefore we need to come together and sing

01:19:47

Kumbaya. So everybody had to get... It almost seemed to me like there was a bit of a script here where you had to use terms like useful idiot and Kumbaya and things like that, which are the very...

01:20:00

What? Not talking points. Which are the very things that in the dialogue itself, for the honest person viewing it, are the very things that we said, no, that's not the case.

01:20:12

A moderate. Why has ISIS put out the desire to kill him, Sharam? Well, there can be several reasons, and we talked about this.

01:20:21

One is because Khadhi is calling out ISIS because he wrote a paper when

01:20:29

ISIS first came on the scene. Well, he didn't write the paper, but he put a signatory, according to him, on a paper where he basically tries to claim that ISIS had no authority, al -Baghdadi, the leader of ISIS, had no authority to be able to declare the caliphate.

01:20:45

And that's very common, because what he... Interestingly, what he does is he doesn't come and he doesn't denounce

01:20:52

ISIS as far as what they're believing. Yes, he does. He's just wrong. Either he hasn't done his homework and is guilty of misrepresentation for that, but I have listened to his talks, not only in the

01:21:07

Memphis Islamic Center, but overseas. And he specifically condemns the elements of their theology where he says they have rejected true

01:21:18

Islamic jurisprudence. He does. It's just a fact, and Christians have to be truthful.

01:21:27

If you're not truthful, you're not a follower of Jesus. Just quit playing games. Just be truthful.

01:21:34

There's no reason to misrepresent people. There never is a reason to do that. He simply says their timing, the way they declared the caliphate, the fact that they don't have authority to declare the caliphate, that there are only 15 ,000 or 20 ,000, according to him.

01:21:48

So that's number one, is that he called them out on this. Number two, you and I speculated, and in my opinion, it could also be cover.

01:21:55

Ah, there you go. See, once you got the Takiyah thing and it's all cover, see that it was just a fake death threat.

01:22:02

And that's just covered it to give him, you know, once you can assume that the person you're talking to is just desperately dishonest, there's no reasoning at that point.

01:22:13

You just got to go, have a nice day. Talk to you later. That ISIS is giving him cover by coming out and saying, we're going to put you on the hit list at the same time.

01:22:24

That gives him an excuse that he, you know, is therefore moderate.

01:22:30

But again, I want to jump... Yeah, so you put him on the hit list, and that gives him an excuse to be called a moderate.

01:22:38

I mean, after all, isn't that one of the things they can do in Islam? Usama is lied to us, before we go to our first clip,

01:22:45

I keep promising. Isn't that one of the things they can do, is lie to us, to deceive us? I mean, so how do you know what he's saying is true?

01:22:51

We're going to talk about taqiyya later, but I have a quick... And then he goes on from there. There's the taqiyya thing.

01:22:57

I'm just getting the highlights at this point. You've pretty much picked up the... For Sheikh Abu Bakr al -Baghdadi, khalifa of ISIS, to issue a fatwa to kill

01:23:06

Yasser, because he not only mocked ISIS by calling them not true Muslims, but...

01:23:12

Wait a minute, wait a minute. So how many excuses are you going to come up here? If he mocked ISIS by calling them not true

01:23:17

Muslims, then why would they give him cover to be a part of the conspiracy?

01:23:24

Boy, there's... Basically, let's just put it this way. From their perspective, Yasser Qadhi cannot believe what

01:23:31

Yasser Qadhi actually states he believes. So that's why they find it absolutely impossible that you could have any kind of dialogue with someone, because they get to define the possible realm of Islamic belief.

01:23:49

And if anybody has a different perspective, they're just... They're either...

01:23:54

Well, they're lying. It's just... And there's no way around... There's no way to deal with someone like this.

01:24:01

It's absolutely impossible. And if I can get this done in under two hours,

01:24:06

I've got to keep pressing forward. You know, some people... By the way, remember how

01:24:12

James White got connected to him. James White, who had no one about Qadhi, later defends him, because Robert Spencer goes after Qadhi, because Qadhi had said in one of his lectures...

01:24:24

Actually, as we pointed out in the second encounter in the mosque, which if they had listened to, they would have known this.

01:24:34

It's... How embarrassing is that? You know who got us together? Shabir Ali.

01:24:41

I had forgotten that. And between the two encounters, Yasser did a search of his emails and found the first reference to me, and it was

01:24:50

Shabir Ali that introduced us to each other. It wasn't the Spencer thing.

01:24:56

Which, by the way, for some reason, I'm sort of wondering what Spencer's role in this is, because he wrote to me a couple months ago.

01:25:03

And I found it strange that years after I'd criticized his hit piece on Yasser Qadhi, where they had cobbled together quotes, cut stuff, and made

01:25:16

Yasser Qadhi say things he never said, out of his lectures on Shirk, from years ago, which

01:25:23

I think represent an older... A younger Yasser Qadhi, rather than the current

01:25:29

Yasser Qadhi. But anyways, and I had done that response to it.

01:25:34

They play that as the first clip. That struck me as odd. Why not go to the dialogues?

01:25:43

I think there's more to this. I think there's a group that's working together on this that includes a number of people.

01:25:51

And it's just astounding that the vast majority of the people who would oppose your reaching out and doing regular defense of the

01:26:03

Trinity, and the deity of Christ, and the inerrancy of Scripture... Folks, I point something out. There is not a single other person dealing with Islam.

01:26:13

And the Muslim apologists will tell you this. There's not a single other person dealing with Islam. Sam Shamoon, David Wood, any of these guys,

01:26:23

Usama, any of these individuals that could go into the depth of textual critical information in defense of the

01:26:35

New Testament that I have. Not a one of them. And the very time that I'm doing that, the very time that I'm working on a

01:26:43

PhD that would be extremely helpful in that area, is the very time these people are all getting together to attack.

01:26:51

I wonder what that might mean. Interesting, isn't it? Interesting, indeed.

01:26:57

That according to the Quran, that non -Muslims, Jews and Christians are considered filth and excrement.

01:27:05

And James White tries to defend Qadi and say, no, that's not the case. That's where the whole thing begins.

01:27:12

Now, if anyone remembers what I actually said, do you remember what I actually said?

01:27:17

I almost thought about, I could go back and replay this thing would be four hours long. I defended, not

01:27:26

Yasser Qadi, I defended Yasser Qadi's right to be a Muslim. And I explained, look, if you believe that I am an idolater, if you believe that I am a

01:27:38

Mushrik, if you believe that my worship of Jesus Christ is idolatry, that makes me

01:27:47

Negus before God, you have the right to state that. My objection was to the idea of isolating that from the whole of Islamic theology that was a part of that article.

01:27:59

I wasn't defending Qadi, I was letting Qadi define his own position because, oh, wait a minute, wait, wait a minute, that's what

01:28:08

Bernie Sanders was objecting to, isn't it? He was objecting to Christians saying that Muslims stand condemned.

01:28:21

My goodness, these people are Bernie Sanders on the left, on the right side instead of the left side.

01:28:28

Huh? Didn't see that one coming, did you? It's the exact same attitude. See, extremists are extremists on either side.

01:28:37

And that's exactly what we've got here. What I was saying, what I clearly communicate, which this gentleman's misrepresenting me on again, did that regularly, is

01:28:49

I understand what Muslims believe. I understand what the Quran says. You can call me ignorant all you want, useful idiot, fine, great.

01:28:58

You guys are the greatest experts on the planet. I am a micro midget compared to all of you.

01:29:04

But despite that, I happen to have read the

01:29:10

Quran a few times and the Hadith, Bukhari and Muslim, a lot of Sunan Abu Dawud and Jami 'at

01:29:20

Tirmidhi and so on and so forth. And I know that the

01:29:26

Quran has very strong things to say to Christians about shirk.

01:29:33

Now, there are some Muslims that don't believe that we're guilty of shirk, but they are the minority. But you've got to admit they're there.

01:29:40

Oh, no, they're not. Yes, they are. No, they're. Yes, they are. But the vast majority think that we're guilty of shirk.

01:29:51

And if so, then and see here, folks, I know this is getting long, but please stick with me, maybe start and stop, take a break, whatever.

01:30:01

But folks, this all has to do with the gospel. I wouldn't be doing this if this did not have to do with how we communicate the gospel to the

01:30:08

Muslim people. If you don't understand the barriers between ourselves and the

01:30:14

Muslim people, you never reach out to them. Now, sadly, the vast majority of people call themselves Christians don't want to reach out to them anyways.

01:30:19

I'm only speaking to you few who actually want to be used in the hand of our

01:30:25

Lord to bring the gospel message to Muslim people. OK, the rest of you are never going to understand me and you're probably going to dislike me and you're going to find all sorts of reasons for attacking me.

01:30:35

And that's OK. Go ahead, because I don't care. It doesn't matter to me.

01:30:41

It's irrelevant. But to those few, one of the greatest barriers to the presentation of the gospel is the recognition that the

01:30:49

Muslim thinks you are inviting them to commit shirk. You're inviting them to commit the one sin that can never be forgiven.

01:30:56

How many times have I told the story about Abu Talib, Muhammad's uncle, the one person for whom

01:31:06

Muhammad was allowed to intercede, who died as a mushrik, and he was given the garden spot of hell.

01:31:15

And he's walking around in sandals that are so hot his brains boil. That's the garden spot of hell.

01:31:23

But he got the garden spot because of Muhammad's intercession for him, because he protected Muhammad during his lifetime.

01:31:30

So if you don't understand what shirk is, then you're not going to be able to present these things.

01:31:40

And so I need to understand what the Muslim I'm talking to believes shirk is, and whether I'm guilty of it, and whether I'm calling them to that.

01:31:47

If I can't recognize the differences in Islamic perspective, I am not going to be able to be used to accurately present the gospel to them.

01:31:54

And these men are basically damaging the Christian witness to Muslims by not allowing us to understand that Muslims have different views on these things and will interpret things differently.

01:32:06

That's why I get upset about it. Not because they're attacking me. I'm used to it. Oh, don't get me wrong. I don't like being lied about.

01:32:13

I don't like being slandered. But it comes with the territory.

01:32:19

It comes with the territory. The reason that I'm passionate about this is these men don't seem to understand what they're doing.

01:32:31

And anyways, so I'm sorry. That sermon was for free. Qadi is saying exactly what the

01:32:38

Qur 'an says, that they are filth and excrement, and they are mushrikun, and they are, uh, uh, uh, uh.

01:32:45

What is a mushrikun? Mushrikun is plural. So you're a plural plural? They are shirk, meaning they're polytheists.

01:32:52

You aren't shirk. You commit shirk. He is, uh, he's, he is not a moderate. There's no way that he's a moderate.

01:33:01

Okay. Wait a minute. The fervor. All right. Okay. So finally, yay, we get to me.

01:33:07

And I appreciate at least, you know, it's funny. I, I always wonder when my enemies, my opponents play contact, uh, uh, finally play something for me.

01:33:17

I'm always like, I'm glad they got that out there. People that says, you know what? I'm just, I'm not interested in making distinctions.

01:33:25

They're all just against Christ. Well, the whole.

01:33:32

Now, so what is this part about? Who was I just talking about? There are people who will not allow for distinctions amongst

01:33:38

Muslims. And they'll say, well, they're all against Christ. And it's like, well, of course the entire world, all man's religions are opposed to Christ in that sense.

01:33:48

That's not an excuse to not allow for the distinctions between what they believe. I mean,

01:33:54

I think the Roman Catholic because of his gospel is opposed to the gospel of Jesus Christ. Shouldn't I make a distinction between Roman Catholic and a

01:34:00

Muslim? Well, duh. So if Muslims have different understandings, why shouldn't

01:34:06

I make a distinction between them as well? That's what I was talking about. Listen to what ends up happening again.

01:34:14

Wow. Unless you've bowed the knee to Christ, everyone is against Christ. Every atheist, every secularist, every.

01:34:20

Okay. For Ty Rize, sorry, we're going to 1 .2. I was at, I was just at normal, but now we're going to go to 1 .2.

01:34:26

Every beer swilling American Southerner, um, who just goes out to the lake and goes fishing and shoots a few rounds off of his shotgun while he's fishing.

01:34:37

And just a good old boy is also against Christ because they have not submitted to Christ. So, I mean, that's a given that you have either those who are submitted to Christ or those who are not.

01:34:49

Those who have spiritual life and those who do not. That, that's an absolute given. But you have to make distinctions between people, especially if you're going to try to witness to them.

01:34:57

I mean, so they stop there. I've made one point. It's one point amongst a bunch. You stop right there.

01:35:03

You're not even trying to represent me properly. Not even trying. But that's where they stop. Now, Sharam, why was he saying that before he gets into his spiel on Spencer?

01:35:12

What was he, what's the point he's trying to make? The point that he's trying to make is because of the, of the, of the allegation that Kadi, and again, it wasn't an allegation.

01:35:19

He's claiming that the clips were taken out of context. They were snipped together. The bottom line is Kadi was saying that the

01:35:25

Quran is very clear, particularly in Surah 9, when it's a chapter of the unbelievers, that he's talking about them as this word, filth, that they're filthy.

01:35:33

And he's trying to say, look, the fact that they're saying this about Christians and he's against, that Islam is against Jesus, is no different than some hillbilly being against Jesus because he doesn't know who

01:35:45

Jesus is. Is that what I was saying? Not even on the same continent.

01:35:52

Not even close. How, how can you listen to someone and so completely misconstrued, unless it was just done so quickly and so haphazardly and on such a surface level that you didn't even try?

01:36:07

Folks, Christians should not be behaving like this. Not, no. And it's totally a ridiculous, uh, uh, you know, um, apologetic.

01:36:18

If that was my apologetic, it would be ridiculous. Uh, Islam is not just against Christ in a, in a, uh, you know, we're ignorant about who

01:36:26

Jesus is. Uh, there are many people in our culture who don't know who Jesus is, but they're not, they're not denying that they're not intentionally denying and or coming against Christians.

01:36:34

And how many times have I defended who the true Jesus was against videos and audios and, and in debates and everything else with Muslims that these men have not even bothered to listen to?

01:36:45

So as to have an accurate basis upon which to accuse me of apostasy.

01:36:51

There's not a fatwa by Allah himself in Surah 9 that fight the people of the book until they testify.

01:36:58

So the fact that, that he's bringing this up as if somehow comparing Islam's view on Jesus and how

01:37:03

Islam views Christians and some hillbillies view are the same. Yeah, well, thank you for completely missing the point.

01:37:10

Yet once again, we continue on. It seems like White has a love affair, uh, with this guy,

01:37:16

Cotty. I think I know where he got that from too. Yeah, you know where that came from. That's more talking points, more talking points.

01:37:24

We know where that came from. Uh, with this guy, Cotty, he's quoting him again saying that you're my mentor.

01:37:31

So throughout the defense of the video that you just played, the very first clip that he's defending

01:37:36

Cotty against what Robert Spencer said, uh, he never, he never, by the way, refused what the

01:37:41

Qur 'an itself said. White never comes and says, oh, the Qur 'an is wrong. It's evil for saying that Christians should be fought against.

01:37:48

Yeah, I've never said that. I mean, in 10 years, well, except for those long, boring dividing lines where I actually went through the

01:37:56

Arabic of these texts and, you know, when I pointed out, you know, tried to have the debate with Yusuf Ismail in Durban, South Africa, war and peace and the

01:38:08

Qur 'an and the Bible and that long dividing line, where I actually went into the Arabic of how the term there is the same term used of Satan feeling himself, uh, humiliated when he's cast out.

01:38:18

And that's how the unbelievers to feel. And, you know, except for all that stuff, which would have come up if you had actually done your homework and, you know, we're being honest about this and stuff like that.

01:38:27

But, you know, that's, that's a lot of work. For being called filthy. He actually tried to say, oh, well, the

01:38:33

Bible said that, you know, we are filthy rags before we're Christians. And he almost defends it.

01:38:38

And it's inexcusable. Okay. Yeah. What's inexcusable is completely missing the point.

01:38:44

But, hey, maybe you were just sent a little clip and didn't bother to go, you know, before I make public comments about this,

01:38:50

I really need to, you know, do some, you know, do some reading and make sure I'm accurately representing things.

01:38:56

Evidently, that perspective is not really popular today. Jews and Christians are filthy.

01:39:03

And basically what I'm hearing then was White was saying, well, of course, Christians are non -believers, are quote

01:39:09

Christians, as a lot of people in America think they're Christians, who really aren't. They are filthy. But it's, that's, was that the point he was trying to make?

01:39:15

We shouldn't be offended by this? You know, Brandon, if you had actually listened to it for yourself, you might be able to answer your own questions.

01:39:25

And maybe if you listen to it with some level of fairness, then you wouldn't be asking really dumb questions.

01:39:33

Because they missed my point. You missed my point. And you have yet to get to the very first words of the dialogue that you are calling me an apostate for engaging in.

01:39:44

And we're almost done with the program. Wow. Yes, he's trying to say there are a lot of people who are against Jesus, and therefore we shouldn't be offended that Muslims are against Jesus.

01:39:54

That is so absurd that I'm not even going to finish playing it. It's just, y 'all, y 'all got it.

01:40:01

They missed the point. I was saying Qadi has the right to be a Muslim. We need to understand what he says, what his belief is, so we can interact with it, present the gospel to him.

01:40:09

There was nothing more than that. All the rest of this stuff is fundamental ignorance.

01:40:17

Ignorance derived from a prejudice and a bigotry in reading a Christian. And folks, if they can misrepresent a

01:40:22

Christian like this, why would you believe anything they have to say about the Muslims? If you can misrepresent

01:40:29

Christians this bad, if you can misread Christians this badly, you think they might have a little bit of prejudice about the

01:40:36

Muslims too. Just maybe. Never said that to me.

01:40:42

In fact, one of the more interesting conversations we had was when we were talking about doing a book, is we have to talk about, well, okay, once we come to the conclusion, where do we go from here?

01:40:49

We both think the other one's going to hell. I mean, he said that to me. He never called me filthy. He was never disrespectful to me.

01:40:58

Usama, doesn't the Quran call for the Muslim to try to convert the non -Muslim by being nice to their face while they're in the lower house seeking the upper house?

01:41:05

Absolutely. And I hear the music. There is no way I can get to what I want to... Yeah, so see, if your experience with Yasir Qadhi is different than that man's interpretation of Yasir Qadhi, well, your experience is just because he was lying to you.

01:41:22

There you go. All right, quickly, before I go to the next clip by James White, this is actually the introduction of their two -day session, two parts.

01:41:29

Part one, I guess, was filmed at a Protestant church here in Memphis. Part two is at the Islamic Center, I understand. I put that one there because it sounds to me like at the beginning, he hadn't even bothered to listen to it yet.

01:41:42

He hadn't listened to it yet. As I understand, I haven't actually, you know, been...

01:41:50

I haven't actually shown enough respect for James White to actually listen to what was said or how it was said or the intentions or...

01:41:59

No, I just wanted to put this program together to blast at him and get some clicks and get some traffic going.

01:42:09

That seems to be what is going on here. So evidently, someone in Twitter said the next two hours have already been posted.

01:42:19

That'll make for a great ride tomorrow. I will definitely put it on high speed because I don't want to invest too much time in it and will probably, unless I can find something redeemingly educational in it, will probably just outline the continuing misrepresentations.

01:42:44

But I'll be honest with you, given what we just saw, if that's the foundation, that's the start, what can you expect for the rest of it?

01:42:52

I mean, how could you even redeem it? It's hard to say.

01:43:00

So what do we learn from this? Start off by listening to Bernie Sanders, who's way off on the left, saying,

01:43:12

I reject your right to define your own faith because I find its claims of exclusivity offensive.

01:43:25

That's the secular humanist socialist. But that closed -minded attitude is not found just amongst them.

01:43:37

There is a closed -mindedness that even infects the Christian church. It is a closed -mindedness that fundamentally impacts our ability to reach entire people groups.

01:43:52

It very frequently represents a lack of confidence in the coherence of the gospel itself.

01:44:07

See, one of the reasons that I don't have to buy into so many of the arguments that are used against Islam, the reason

01:44:19

I don't buy into so many of the extremely emotional arguments is because I have full confidence that the gospel clearly explained, communicated by someone who has not put themselves in the way, who has attempted in grace and mercy to present that gospel clearly, and has sought to understand what the other person believes so as to communicate to them specifically, allowed them to state their beliefs.

01:44:56

So I'm not trying to force some kind of prefabbed, apologetic argumentation on them that I've found to work on somebody else.

01:45:05

I have full confidence that that gospel can be and has been used by the

01:45:15

Spirit of God to draw His people unto Himself. We don't sit around here on this program and toot our horn and talk about the people that we know who have come to faith, but they're there.

01:45:33

We don't think it's appropriate to have a scoreboard or something like many people do.

01:45:39

But I've seen it happen. And it just strikes me that people who want to force all

01:45:49

Muslims into the same parameters do so because they fundamentally lack a confidence in a full -orbed, true representation of the gospel derived from Scripture.

01:46:07

I do not enjoy being lied about or slandered.

01:46:14

I will admit that. But if that's the cost of my being able to encourage others who may not have the same platform that I have had in reaching out to Muslims to engage in apologetics with love, whether it's to Muslims or Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, to do so in such a way that you combine a commitment to the gospel, love of God, no compromise, but recognize the huge danger, the huge danger that exists for an apologist, because the reality is the commitment to no compromise is often used as a veil, as a cover for allowing your love of others to grow cold and to, in fact, disappear.

01:47:27

You want to know why so many people involved in apologetics eventually burn out and leave?

01:47:34

It's one of the main reasons. It's one of the main reasons. Holding together the no compromise together with a passionate love for those you're seeking to reach, it's not an easy thing to do.

01:47:53

And if I have to be vilified by the people on my own side for encouraging you to do it, small price to pay, small price to pay.

01:48:06

So like I said, from what I've been told, there's probably another two hours of slanderous untruths that have been promoted by Brannon House, unless by some miracle something happened overnight, but those were posted,

01:48:22

I think, before we started this program, so there hardly could have been any repentance at that point in time.

01:48:30

But we simply have to trust God has a purpose in all these things and to try to take these things, redeem them, and once again, my audience first and foremost has to be

01:48:46

God. He knows my motivations. He knows my motivations. Secondly, I want to encourage

01:48:54

Christian people to not give in to the temptation of this kind of activity as popular as it is.

01:49:07

And thirdly, to my Muslim friends, once again, you've been given a clear indication.

01:49:15

There are some of us who do what we do. And when we say and profess our concern for you and our love for you, we actually mean it.

01:49:28

And you've seen it. You've seen it. There's no deception here. This isn't some great conspiracy.

01:49:35

Hey, how about you tag me for a while, then I'll tag you for a while. No, believe me. Last thing on my mind, some of us really do care.

01:49:44

Some of us really do care. So with that, we will wrap up today. Um, next week was not my, it's not my desire to follow up with this, but we may have to.

01:49:57

Um, but next week, I'm hoping to have some guests who are in town for the

01:50:03

Southern Baptist Convention, but we'll see. We'll see how that works out and we'll see what happens over the weekend.