F4F | Banning Liebscher White Washes Bethel's Grave Soaking

Fighting for the Faith

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Welcome to another installment of Fighting for the

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Faith here on YouTube. If you've ever heard or seen or witnessed somebody talking about or practicing a technique known as grave soaking or grave sucking, claiming that it's, well, you know, it's in the

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Bible, then go ahead and hit the subscribe button and don't forget to ring the bell you've been deceived.

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And what we're gonna be doing is we're heading over to the YouTube channel of Preston Sprinkle and Preston Sprinkle, back a few months ago, interviewed

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Banning Liebscher of Jesus Culture regarding the controversies that have arisen within the body of Christ and the criticisms that have been faced by Banning Liebscher and Bethel Church of Redding, California.

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And along the way, the topic of grave soaking, grave sucking is going to be brought up and we're gonna name this segment because of what

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Banning Liebscher is going to be engaging in. We're gonna say, Banning Liebscher whitewashes

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Bethel's grave soaking practices. You know, something like that, because that's exactly what he's gonna do.

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And just to demonstrate what we're gonna be talking about here, he's gonna say one thing and kind of create a narrative that distances the leadership of Bethel.

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We're going to show photographic evidence that this is not what he says it is.

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And then just to have a little bit of fun, have you heard of Ben Fitzgerald? Ben Fitzgerald of Awakening Europe?

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Of Awakening Australia? Yeah, this guy's a full -blown grave soaker and we got video evidence to prove it.

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Anyway, so that's what we're gonna do on this installment. Let me whirl this up. We're over at the YouTube channel of Preston Sprinkle.

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Here's Banning Liebscher to discuss the controversies surrounding, you know,

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Bill Johnson, Bethel, and the gang. Here we go. This stuff began to kind of, this,

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God moving in this way began to break out in these places. And our pastor, Bill, just has a deep passion for revival.

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Like he has a deep, deep passion to see God move in the hearts of people and God move in cities.

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And so when he came, he came and the church was just a good, strong, charismatic church, but he came with renewal.

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And renewal was a little bit, renewal was controversial in that there were manifestations and there was, you know, and, and again, so much of this stuff that people would have a problem with,

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I'm like, I was there a long time and I never saw that, never heard that, don't know what you're talking about with that. So what would be the stuff they'd like?

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Well, in the early days, in the early days, there was manifestations going on. So there would be like people falling out in the spirit or people shaking or, again, none of this is new.

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Like if you really reach. Now a little bit of a note here. Shaking uncontrollably?

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Yeah, in the New Testament, that would happen to people who were demonized.

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Yeah, it's true. History. There's a reason why Quakers are called Quakers.

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Wesley's meetings were not that calm and nice. The Second Great Awakening was... I'm just saying, it's not...

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So Wesley had people barking like dogs and writhing on the ground uncontrollably.

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Yeah, I'm not sure if that's actually true about Wesley's evangelistic preaching meetings.

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As clean as we want to make history, but having said that, so a lot of this stuff is happening. Like the Holy Spirit touching people in some outward manifestations were happening.

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Well, then all of a sudden it was like, people were like, well, people are barking like dogs and they're roaring like lions, and there was all this stuff.

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You're like, okay, I don't even know what you're talking about. So I'm just saying, Bill has a real heart for revival.

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Yeah, so he kind of cut out bad internet connection. Yeah, I understand the difficulties there. So yeah, despite the fact we had people barking like dogs,

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Bill really, really has a heart for revival and stuff like that.

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It doesn't sound like revival to me. And at some level, in all honesty, and this is not a negative, he just doesn't care what people think.

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He cares what people... people can speak into his life, but he just wants to please

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God. That's his main passion. So having people bark like dogs is really pleasing to God.

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By the way, just a little bit of a note. In the book of Daniel, there was a fellow by the name of Nebuchadnezzar.

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You've heard of him, king of Babylon. Yeah, what's really funny about him is that in the book of Daniel...

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let me see if I can do this from memory. Daniel 4. Yeah, yeah, so Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel chapter 4 talks about him receiving the mind of a beast or an animal.

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And you see, it wasn't a good thing. Just like the shakings, that's in the convulsing...

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that's the manifestation of the demonic in the New Testament. Here, you know, manifesting animal -like behavior is an actual punishment from God.

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Yeah, Daniel 4. And the

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Chaldeans and the astrologers, they came and they told them the dream, but they could not make known to me its interpretation.

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At last, Daniel came in before me, he who was named

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Belshazzar, after the name of my God, in whom is the spirit of the holy gods.

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And I told him the dream, saying, O Belshazzar, chief of the magicians, because I know that the spirit of the holy gods is in you, and that no mystery is too difficult for you, tell me the visions of my dream that I saw, and their interpretation, the visions of my head as I lay in bed, were these.

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I saw, behold, a tree in the midst of the earth, its height was great, the tree grew, became strong, its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the end of the whole earth.

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Its leaves were beautiful, its fruits abundant, and in it was food for all. The beasts of the field found shade under it, the birds of the heavens lived in the branches, and all flesh fed from it.

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And I saw in the visions of my head as I lay in my bed, behold, a watcher, a holy one, came down from heaven, and he proclaimed aloud and said,

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Chop down the tree and lop off its branches, strip off its leaves, scatter its fruit, let the beasts flee from under it and the birds from its branches, but leave the stump of its roots in the earth bound with a band of iron and bronze amid tender grass of the field, and let him be wet with dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts in the grass of the earth, and let his mind be changed from a man's, and let a beast's mind be given to him instead, and let seven periods of time pass over him.

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So the sentence is by the decree of the watchers, the decision by the word of the holy ones, to the end that the living may know that the

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Most High rules the kingdom of men and gives it to whom he will, and sets over at the lowliest of men.

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This dream I, King Nebuchadnezzar, saw, and you, O Belshazzar, tell me the interpretation, because all the wise men of the kingdom are not able to make known to me the interpretation, but you are able, for the spirit of the holy gods is in you.

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So then Daniel, whose name was Belshazzar, was dismayed for a while, and his thoughts alarmed him. And the king answered and said,

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Belshazzar, let not the dream or its interpretation alarm you. And Belshazzar answered and said, My lord, may the dream be for those who hate you and its interpretation for your enemies.

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The tree you saw which grew and became strong so that its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the whole earth, those whose leaves were beautiful and its fruits abundant, and in which was food for all, under which beasts of the field found shade, and in whose branches the birds of the heavens lived.

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It's you, O king, you have grown and become strong. Your greatness has grown and reaches to heaven, and your dominion to the ends of the earth.

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And because the king saw a watcher, a holy one, come down from heaven and saying, Chop down the tree and destroy it, but leave the stump of its roots in the earth, bound with a band of iron and bronze, and the tender grass of the field, and let him be wet with the dew of heaven, and his portion be with the beasts of the field till seven periods of time pass over him.

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This is the interpretation, O king. It's a decree of the Most High which has come upon my lord the king, that you shall be driven from among men, and your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and you shall be made to eat grass like an ox, and you shall be wet with the dew of heaven, and seven periods of time shall pass over you till you know the

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Most High rules the kingdom of men and gives it to whom he will. And as it was the command to leave the stump of the roots of the tree, your kingdom shall be confirmed for you from the time that you know that heaven rules.

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Therefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable to you. Break off your sins by practicing righteousness, and your iniquities by showing mercy to the oppressed, that there may be perhaps a lengthening of your prosperity.

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And all of this came upon King Nebuchadnezzar at the end of twelve months. He was walking on the roof of the royal palace of Babylon, and the king answered and said,

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Is not this great Babylon which I have built by my mighty power as a royal residence and for the glory of my majesty?

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While the words were still in the king's mouth, there fell a voice from heaven. O king Nebuchadnezzar, to you it is spoken.

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The kingdom has departed from you, and you shall be driven from among men, and your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and you shall be made to eat grass like an ox, and seven periods of time shall pass over you until you know that the

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Most High rules the kingdom of men and gives it to whom he will. And immediately the word was fulfilled against Nebuchadnezzar.

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He was driven from among men, ate grass like an ox, his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hair grew as long as eagles' feathers, and his nails were like birds' claws.

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Uh -huh. Now, if you want to read the rest of it, you can, but you get the point, that given the mind of a beast, that's a punishment from God.

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And Banning Leibscher is talking about that type of manifestation, people barking like dogs, like it was a good thing!

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Yeah, it was all part of revival, you know? Some context for that. Then a school of ministry starts.

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So then a school of ministry starts. Bethel has, I don't want to butcher numbers, but it's something like 2 ,300 students in its school right now.

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Wow. It gets a new... Yeah, that's about as depressing as a statistic as you can hear.

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Twelve to fourteen hundred students that come in every year. So you have a lot of young, zealous, passionate students that are there.

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And Bill is a supernatural guy. He believes in the power of God.

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He believes in the supernatural working of God. He believes in healing. He believes it is part of the

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Atonement, and it is available. Yeah, no, actually healing is not part of the Atonement unless you're talking about the resurrection.

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Yeah. So in deliverance, all that type of stuff. So it's a supernatural, charismatic environment, and then you put all these students into it that are zealous and young, and it's a very interesting combination of what's going on.

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Now this is where you got to pay attention, because he's spinning a false narrative now. You see, we're about ready to segue very shortly into the practice of grave -soaking.

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And so he's basically said, we've got all of these students, and you know, it's a laboratory.

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They're experimenting with the supernatural. They're the ones responsible for the grave -soaking.

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That's the narrative that he's gonna give. And Bill does not want to control things. So students might be out in kind of the fringe on what, like, they're kind of like pressing into the supernatural in a way that's like, okay, that's weird, man.

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That's weird. But Bill's not gonna publicly get up and start reprimanding everybody. We pastor it one -on -one, so I'll talk about some of that.

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But I just need to give some context. So anything goes, no matter how crazy it is, anything goes at Bethel.

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We don't want to quench the spirit, and Bill doesn't want to, you know, from the pulpit, you know, suppress any student who may be experimenting with the supernatural.

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...text for kind of like, and I would say this, much of the controversy surrounding Bethel is actually just people that have a problem with charismatics.

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So part of my concern... Yeah, no, it has everything to do with the false doctrine, false practices, false teaching, and bizarre stuff that's going on at Bethel.

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And as a result of these little students, the 2 ,300 that you were talking about, every year

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Bethel graduates almost a thousand of them, and they are thrown like weed seeds out into the wind, and they land in churches all over the world, and they bring with them all of these false doctrines and practices.

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Yeah, they're having a huge negative impact on the body of Christ globally. ...is when

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I'm talking to people, is they're like going to read blogs or something. Yeah. And I'll go like...

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Yeah, why would you want to read a blog? No one ever said anything true or biblical on a blog.

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Mm -hmm. I remember, I don't read much of this stuff, honestly, because I'm just trying to go do what

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God's telling me to do. But I remember I looked up on YouTube, like we had a video that we had produced, and I haven't seen it yet.

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They're like, oh, we put it up on YouTube. So I go, and I'm watching on YouTube, and then all down the right -hand side is all these other videos about Jesus culture.

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I'm like, what are these? And I just start clicking on them, and everybody has a problem with us. Everybody has a problem with Jesus culture.

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But I'm like, who are these people? Yeah. I don't know. It's just random people. Yeah, why don't you address the substance of some of the criticism?

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Granted, I mean, I get criticized daily, daily. Social media, email,

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I'm used to it. And some criticism is just whack -a -doodle, and the substance of it is not even close to anything helpful.

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And some of it is actually quite useful. Just because somebody's critical doesn't mean that they're wrong.

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Who have a problem with Jesus culture, most of them have a problem with charismatics. You know what I'm saying? Because I would say, like, our theology is a charismatic theology, like many other churches.

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Bethel would just be more visible, or Bethel would have more of that supernatural happening kind of deal, which is messy.

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It's messy. How about it's not even real? What you said to me is so telling when you said that Bill doesn't want to control things.

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Yeah, Preston, a little bit of a note here. That Shure microphone, that's a great microphone. Yeah, if you note that it's, you know, the pattern on that requires you to actually be closer to the microphone.

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That's not, you know, a room microphone. That's a cardioid microphone, which means you need to be right on it.

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So weird that he's doing that. And you have these young, zealous people. And if I could hear what you're saying, sometimes young, zealous people can maybe take things into maybe an extreme or start to explore things that you or the leadership may not be like, oh, we wouldn't.

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So here's the narrative now being rehashed by Preston Sprinkle, who's way too far away from that Shure microphone.

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But anyway, he's rehashing the narrative. Oh, it's these crazy young, charismatic

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School of Supernatural Ministry students that are doing the wacker doodle things there.

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So you do that, but if you're not going to police everything. So well, from the pulpit, so we pastor it.

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I'll give you an example. And again, I don't know who your listeners are, so they may think like, this is good. They're all over the map.

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You're going to have. Yeah, there's like Lutherans and stuff watching. Thanks, non -charismatics. Well, I'm a pretty normal guy.

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So but we were in staff one time and these students, I don't even know where this came from, but I was getting emails about this from my pastor friends from around the nation.

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So and social media puts it all out there now. But they were like putting coins on the wall and they were staying and they're like, oh, man, this is

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God, this is supernatural. And because the coins were staying on the wall, this is literally what happened.

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And we're in a staff meeting going, what? That's weird.

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Are you doing that like, you know, like somebody go pastor them and talk to them like, you know, students that are trying to walk through walls now more than ever.

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We need the Jedi, you know, because it's in the Bible, right? It one time, actually two times, it's in the

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Bible and it's Jesus who did it after the resurrection and no examples of any human being walking through walls like Peter or Paul.

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In fact, Peter was in prison and God sent an angel to open the prison door and to let him out.

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Peter didn't walk through the wall. Jesus did. So just to say, well, it's in the

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Bible. So we're going to practice that. Yeah. If I had one of my catechumens in my church, you know, saying, hey,

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Jesus walked through walls. I got to practice how to do it, too. I have a very long conversation about making proper distinctions.

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Uh -huh. So they walk through walls. They're trying to go practice walking through walls. And we're all we all are like, uh, yeah, that's a little bit.

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That's a little out there, you know, like, yeah, it shows that they need to be theologically reined in and biblically instructed to pay for your broken nose.

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Yeah. But the deal is, is that Bill or is not going to get up from the pulpit because Bill doesn't mind a little bit of mess.

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OK. All right. Yes. Yeah. We don't mind a little bit of if they want to try practicing walking through walls, they can knock themselves.

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I want to walk on water. They can go right ahead. But they're not like where there's oxen, there's mess.

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So, you know, I'm not going to get this use of that proverb, by the way, because he doesn't want to shut down those that are really seeking.

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Right. And those that are really trying to press in for more of God, he doesn't want to shut that stuff down by starting to get up and police everything from the pulpit.

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Yet scripture tells the pastors that they are to rebuke those who who deviate from sound doctrine.

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And yet they see belief that you can walk through walls is a false doctrine needs to be reined in.

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And I don't know. One of the big controversies around Bethel is what is this grave suckers thing?

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I don't know if you've heard of this. Now, note the narrative at this point is that it's the students, it's the students doing this.

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You know, the staff, the leadership, you know, the Jesus culture guys, you know, they're hearing about this going, well, that's kind of weird, you know, but we don't want to shut down those people who are experimenting or truly desiring to press into God and stuff.

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But it's the students, the students are the doers of the grave soaking. I read about that,

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I think in a Christianity Today article. OK, well, I'll address the Christianity Today article if you'd like.

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But so this is one of those things like, you know, some students or in the past, like we have a real passion for history and revival history and men and women of God.

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So whatever it is, the Whitfields and the Wesleys and the Luthers and, you know, the

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Booths. And then and then for us, the John G. Lakes and the Katherine Kuhlmans. And yeah, it's weird to hear

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Martin Luther in that list. Wow. Painful, very painful. So we have, you know, we have we read that stuff.

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We love that it stirs us, inspires us. And so, you know, you know, like I don't know who would be a good example.

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I don't know who would have been over there. John Wesley going to John Wesley's grave, you know, if you're over in England or Booth's grave, just going to visit it and just praying at the grave like,

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Lord, what what General Booth did in the Salvation Army got do it again in our day and and let us see it, let us see a transformation happen in society like he did.

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Like just, you know, we'd go visit that and people might pray or whatever. And then again, these are students.

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Yeah, it's just the students doing this. It's just the students.

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No, it's not. Yeah, see, here's a interesting photograph I found on the Internet from Benny, Benny Johnson.

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This is the wife of Bill Johnson from her Instagram. That's her grave soaking on C .S.

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Lewis's grave. Yes. And and she just says, what

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I do, L .O .L. C .S. Lewis, Oxford trip. Yeah. So there's

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Benny Johnson, you know, soaking up C .S. Lewis's anointing.

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And here's the same woman, Benny Johnson at Charles Finney's grave.

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You know, it's just the students, you know, the students, you know, you know how goofy they could be.

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What about her? You know? Yeah. But just to say, Benny Johnson, she doesn't seem like one of the students to me at the

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Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry. So you'll note that Banning Leacher here is kind of whitewashing the whole grave soaking thing here.

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Here's a video, by the way, that is Ben Fitzgerald, Ben Fitzgerald of Awakening Europe, a

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Ben Fitzgerald of Awakening Australia, Ben Fitzgerald, whose mom is the

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Christ Alignment Destiny card lady. Yeah, that's right. One of our earliest

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YouTube videos that we did this year was on Christ Alignment.

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And these these tarot Christian tarot card readings, they're done by Ben Fitzgerald's mom.

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But here's Ben Fitzgerald and some students. Now, these are the students. But Ben Fitzgerald is now a major leader within kind of the charismatic movement with very strong ties to Bethel Church.

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But here's here's him talking about grave sucking. Here we go. Miss Wigglesworth's grave in Bradford, it's up the other end of England.

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You might not be able to come here naturally, but you can certainly feel it supernaturally what's happening in this man's life. And it's funny, all of our students, when we came here, the thing that we felt was that like the raising of the dead power and the gift of faith came on us.

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And some students were leaning over the back of the grave and they felt a grace and a faith just rest on them. It's funny, isn't it?

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Elijah, I think someone put the person's bones on his bones and they got raised up to life.

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Yeah. Now, by the way, that becomes the biblical pretext for grave sucking. And you'll note that Ben Fitzgerald, who at the time

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I think was a student at the Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry. But let's take a look at the actual text in question.

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It's found in Second Kings, chapter 13, a little bit of a note here.

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Thirteen, verse 20, Elisha died. Elisha died. They buried him.

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Now, bands of Moabites used to invade the land in the spring of the year. And as a man was being buried, behold, a marauding band was seen and the man was thrown into the grave of Elisha.

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And as soon as the man touched the bones of Elisha, he revived and stood on his feet, which, by the way, is a prophetic type and shadow of the resurrection of Christ.

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That's really what this is pointing to. But all of that being said, there was no practice in the Old Testament times of people seeking out the bones of prophets for healing or anything like this.

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And this just happened to happen because they were burying this fellow, a marauding band of Moabites happened to be coming through the region.

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And they basically said, quick, we got to get out of here. Throw that body on that grave. And so they throw it into the grave.

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And it just so happened to land on the bones of Elisha. And the fellow came back to life.

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This is not some kind of an ongoing practice that we're supposed to be engaging in as Christians, by the way.

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There's a big difference between descriptive texts in the Bible and prescriptive texts.

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So this is describing a historical event. It is not prescribing a practice.

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And apparently they don't teach the students of the Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry, like Ben Fitzgerald, to make a proper distinction like that.

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So there he is at the grave of Smith Wigglesworth. And watch where he goes from here. You come into a place where the

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Holy Spirit was on a person. He still exists there. He still keeps the heritage of the person's life. You can see he had his whole family buried with him.

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But this is the man, Smith Wigglesworth. And the history of this man is a history of miracles and great faith and a restoration of the miraculous anointing into the

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Church of England and also across the whole world. And as you know, he's written many great books and writings on gifts of faith and the working of faith and the working of miracles.

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He even punched people at times, which I don't encourage all the time. But when the gift of faith comes...

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Yeah, he did punch people, including children. It's on you and you know what to do.

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You've got to punch that devil out of people, smack that thing in the chops and get it out of someone's life and get the devil off people's back.

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And this is what this man did. And so although you can't be here in the natural, just open up your hands right now and get ready to receive in the spiritual because there's no distance in the spirit.

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All right. So no, whatever this video, wherever it was recorded while he was there, you know, he's going to take whatever anointing is on Smith Wigglesworth's grave and he's going to release it into the spiritual atmosphere.

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And you can receive it. God can release this same impartation onto you. And before we do that, we're just going to show you one scripture down here that has on his grave, an amazing scripture they put in his grave here just after his writings there about Smith Wigglesworth's life.

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They put this, he says, I fought the good fight and I've kept the faith. This man had an enduring spirit.

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And I believe right now the impartation is going to be the gift of faith is going to come on you. And also the spirit of endurance that this man, he was persistent.

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This man prayed in tongues for two to three hours a day, read the Bible every day. And he kept the faith all the way up to the end of his life.

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And out of all the people in the God's generals books, he's one of the ones that he never fell. He never compromised. He never changed his heart and his attitude toward God and toward people.

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He stayed the same. He had enduring faith. I don't know, punching people to heal them or to knock the devil out of them.

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Yeah, that sounds like he compromised to me. We're just going to pray right now in Jesus name. So we release, we release other students who come in.

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We just release over there. Now, I think the right counter curse move here is you got to block.

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So he's going to release. I'm going to block. So, you know, so I'm blocking whatever he's releasing.

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I think that's how you keep it out of your house. Over the camera right now, we just release the anointing of God that is in this place.

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And we pray that faith, faith, great faith would come on you. And we just release right now the anointing.

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Just take it now in Jesus name. Take enduring faith and take a great faith to do so. They're releasing this because it's sitting there on the grave of Smith Wigglesworth.

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Yeah. Miracles to work. Miracles in the neighborhoods, in the supermarkets, but also an enduring faith to continue on and to not compromise your life, but to walk with the

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Lord Jesus. And he's releasing over you right now. Grace. Yeah, you can tell these are just solid students of God's word here.

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Yeah, that's that shows you the quality of a student that is graduated from Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry.

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So here's Banning Liebscher talking about graves. It's just the students. Yeah, those silly students.

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And there's Benny Johnson. But yeah, let's let me back this up so you can hear the false narrative here.

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Let us see it. Let us see a transformation happen in society like he did. Like just, you know, we'd go visit that and people might pray or whatever.

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And then again, these are students. And then it kind of starts going like, oh, how come you didn't talk about Benny Johnson doing that?

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Well, now they're laying on the grave, you know, which is kind of like that biblical thing.

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No, it wasn't the students laying on the grave. That was Benny Johnson, Bill Johnson's wife. See, there she is.

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She's doing that right there. And here she's hugging the gravestone of Finney there. Yeah, it wasn't the students that were merely doing that.

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Like if there's an I'm not a I'm not I'm not a proponent for it.

29:31

I'm just saying like, hey, there was an anointing on Elijah, Elijah, Elijah. There was an anointing on his grave that made the.

29:39

No, there wasn't. Guy come back to life and maybe there's an anointing. Yeah, you've again, we just took a look at the text.

29:46

It's a descriptive text, not a prescriptive text. And then it started getting more like,

29:54

I don't know, man, it was like getting I don't know what students were doing, but but it was weird. Yeah, it was weird.

30:00

Yeah. I mean, you know what? Benny Johnson, the wife of Bill Johnson, was doing. That's really weird. You know,

30:05

I I've put flowers on the grave of relatives and friends.

30:11

I've never laid down on their grave, though. Yeah, that that's just that's just really weird.

30:17

Yeah. It wasn't just students, though, Banning. Yeah, but that's the stuff that all of a sudden is blown up all over the place.

30:23

And yeah, I wonder why. Yeah, I mean, there's see there's nothing to see here, folks. I mean, this is just as normal as normal can be.

30:31

I have no idea why. Why this would be controversial, you know? Oh, I know.

30:42

Yeah, you kind of get the idea here is that Banning is engaging in PR spin and his false narrative isn't holding up at all if you just know where to go to find the evidence.

30:54

And I think you get the point. So, yeah, Banning Liebscher, that's what we would call whitewashing, the grave soaking, grave sucking practices of the leadership, as well as the students of Bethel.

31:09

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31:15

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31:22

So until next time, may God richly bless you in the grace and mercy won by Jesus Christ and his vicarious death on the cross for all of your sins.