Islam, Mormonism, and the Trinity

The Christmas Day Airliner Bomb Plot and Why Islam Matters

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 9 7 3 4 6 0 2 or toll-free across the United States. It's 1 8 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1. And now with today's topic here is James white.

And welcome to dividing line on the 29th of December 2009. Almost done. But I don't know about you, but it's just another day on the calendar it's it's. It's nice to be reminded that we need to be looking toward another year, but After a certain number of years have passed You know, they also start blending together and at this time of this year.

Obviously, we are very focused upon Important issues and as most of you know on Christmas Day this Just few days ago We almost got to add 1225 to the list of dates that people in the West now know such as 9 11 and 7 -7 if you don't know what 7 -7 is.

You've been living in a lead mine someplace or have never been to the UK, but The fact the matter is were it not for a malfunctioning detonator. The flaming debris of an Airbus a330 would have plummeted to the earth over Detroit on Christmas Day and we would once again be discussing The deaths of hundreds of people suddenly in the name of Islam.

Umar Farooq Abdulmutallab is a man from Nigeria who is currently recovering from third-degree burns. Self-inflicted obviously and I wrote an article on our blog yesterday, I believe. This title dar al-harb why you need to know this Arabic phrase I Said is pronounced dar al-harb.

Memorize it because it explains why the Nigerian in the window seat is trying to blow you and Nearly 300 other people with you on your international flight to pieces as you descend into a major American city.

I note today a article That says hundreds of al-qaeda militants are planning terror attacks from Yemen the country's foreign minister said today Abu Bakr al-kirby appealed for more help from the international community to help to train and equip counter-terrorist forces.

His plea came after an al-qaeda group based in Yemen claimed responsibility for the failed Christmas Day airliner bomb plot. Umar Farooq Abdulmutallab Alleged to be behind the attempt to blow up an American-bound aircraft will done alleged.

Like you only have how many hundreds of witnesses here? Spent time in Yemen with al-qaeda and was in the country only days before the failed attack. That's probably where he got the underwear bomb Al Kirby said of course there are a number of al-qaeda operators in Yemen and some of their leaders.

We realize this danger. They may actually plan attacks like the one we have just had in Detroit. There are maybe hundreds of them 200 300 of them I'll Kirby said it was the responsibility of countries a strong intelligence capabilities to warn states such as Yemen.

About the movements of terror suspects. Well, the guy got in the plane without a passport. So It's gonna be tough when that kind of thing happens. This is interesting. Mr. Abdulmutallab former tutors at University College London where he was a student between 2005 and 2008 described him as well-mannered quietly spoken polite and able and Said that he never gave any cause for concern.

He was president of the institution's Islamic Society between 2006 and 2007 so we have the president of the Islamic Society the University College of London trying to kill hundreds of people. Why. Would Umar Farooq Abdulmutallab want to do so?

Well, I attempted to explain this in my article and that is.

The.

Radicalized form of Islam now and immediately We have to and if you've heard me talk about this before well, if you want to tune out fine I'm not sure how you can because if you turn over to Fox or CNN, they're gonna be talking about the same thing just without a meaningful background.

They're gonna be talking about it from a secular perspective they're gonna be talking about it without a knowledge of Islam and that's the problem and Unfortunately, our leaders our secularist socialist leaders are likewise clueless About why these people do what they do.

They are clueless because they think that Islam is a religion It is a religio-political system When it is in the minority It is a religio-political system when it becomes closer to the majority becomes a politico-religio System in other words the more Muslims you have the more the political aspect becomes central and so They don't see that they don't understand that they're Westerners.

They're secularized Westerners and they don't understand that Islam is a political system. They separate religion and politics. Isn't that what we're all supposed to do? Isn't that what the Constitution says we're supposed to do?

Well, it actually doesn't but that's been pounded in their brains so much. I think everyone thinks that way and they don't It is a religio-political system. They go together. They cannot be separated and in the Islamic Brotherhood Sayyid Qutb the Islamic Brotherhood al-qaeda Osama bin Laden in their thinking one of the greatest errors of Western thinking is To separate The political sphere and the religious sphere that's that is the very end of True religion from their perspective.

And so once an individual buys into this form of Islam then their thinking becomes extremely black and white and I mentioned two phrases that would be very good for you to memorize and understand Dar al-harb the world of war the world of fighting the world of struggle the world of the sword and Dar al-islam in the Muslim Brotherhood's perspective the Dar al-islam Involves all those areas where Sharia has been established for many of them for Osama bin Laden.

That's only where the Taliban is there is even Saudi Arabia With its control over the holy sites is Not truly Dar al-islam. Because Sharia has not been thoroughly established in those areas. That's why The leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood like Sayyid Qutb were executed in Egypt because the Egyptian leadership did not want to establish that kind of governmental system either and so that is why al-qaeda is Fought by the Saudis fought by the Egyptians and Keep something else in mind that you're not gonna again here on Fox News you're not gonna hear on especially not gonna hear on CNN and No one at this NBC knows how to say the words.

But these groups do not like each other Hezbollah fights al-qaeda. Why they're all Muslims, right? Well sort of. But they have different purposes local Cells and groups like Hezbollah are focused solely upon the area of Palestine and the Palestinian situation.

Al-qaeda is worldwide. And so what al-qaeda did for example in Detroit. Only angers Americans, which doesn't help Hezbollah. So Hezbollah fights al-qaeda and they kill each other. And of course, hopefully you are aware of the fact that the vast majority of Islamic violence in the world is Muslim on Muslim Sunnis killing Shias she is killing Sunnis.

Everybody killing the Ahmadiyya. It's just that's the vast majority of it. They they kill fellow Muslims all the time because it's a political system. And when your politics are not right, then you become you're on the wrong side, but you get to have God Get to tell you to do those things.

So The Dhar al-harb for many people in the Middle East is simply another word for the West. We are the great Satan and They think in very black and white terms. They see the debauchery of Western civilization.

They think that's the result of Christian civilization and Therefore there's nothing redeeming about it. There's nothing good about it.

And.

In fact as they see their own young people attracted to it attracted to its ways of dress It's immodesty. It's debauchery. It's technology. Then they see even more that there's no reason to make distinctions as to this Dhar al-harb and so.

Those who become radicalized are convinced that you have the two Dhar al-Islam Dhar al-harb. And if you are a soldier of Islam Then you are in essence free to do what that man attempted to do on flight 253.

Because all those people many of whom know nothing about Islam. They don't care about Islam they don't they don't even know when Muhammad lived. It doesn't matter you can violently kill them Because they are a part of the Dhar al-harb and You are seeking to bring in Dhar al-Islam by killing the coffers now.

There are Muslims in Detroit and other places Who this day are at as soon as they heard the first reports were cringing cringing.

And.

They are the quote-unquote moderates and And they would like to argue with mr. Abdullah Muttalab and They would like to point to the fact that for example you have the Dhar al-Dawa The world where Invitation to Islam is being practiced apologetics what we would call evangelism, but from the Islamic perspective.

What about that? How? How do you fit that in? Why wasn't there any attempt to call these people to Islam and they would also argue look You cannot have a true state of jihad without a Muslim state and a caliph.

To declare the jihad there is no caliph today. So there can be no jihad so When a state of jihad has been declared then the coffers life and the coffers property is forfeit to the Muslim soldier. But if there has been no state of jihad declared legally by a proper caliph Then that is not the case.

And so they would argue what this man did was wrong and They could go to various sources for example in The hadith sahih al-bukhari volume 4 book 52 number 257 Narrated Abdullah during some of the gaza wad of the Prophet a woman was found killed.

Allah's Apostle disapproved the killing of women and children. Likewise number 258 repeating in essence the same thing except this time It says during some of the gaza wad of the Allah's Apostle a woman was found killed.

So Allah's Apostle forbade the killing of women and children yet Here's the problem these sources Can be cherry-picked by anyone I Mean people accuse Christians of picking and choosing what they will will not believe in the Bible and there's all sorts of groups to do but you take the Quran and you take the hadith and put them together and you have a massive field of Statements that can be interpreted in all sorts of different ways many times There's almost no meaningful context given to where you can say no you're misusing that and So your favorite teacher your Osama bin Laden your Radicalized imam that was that the Fort Hood shooter was in contact with that was also in contact with this man.

Let's send some Navy SEALs after him and not put them up for court-martial for crying out loud.

Um.

These people will take these sources and they will pick The source the Interpretation they want and they will convince people of that. And I don't see a whole lot of formal debates taking place in the Islamic world between these two sides.

Unfortunately once the the radicals take over the moderates disappear if they want to stay alive and. And so others will go to For example book 19 number 43 21. This is in Sahih Muslim. It is reporting the authority of Saab bin Jathama That the Prophet of Allah may peace be upon him.

When asked about the women and children of the polytheists Being killed during the night raid said they are from them. They are from them. And in other words Because they were polytheists and they're opposing Islam.

Well It's collateral damage. Just the way it is and so that's how al-qaeda gets around this there are all sorts of ways to get around this. All you have to do is go well all People are born Muslims. That is a Muslim belief.

The the Hadith teaches that all of us that God rubbed Adam Allah rubbed Adams back. I've explained this in the past and I recognize unfortunately for most Christians the eyes roll back in the head and Music starts playing and and then when I start talking about Calvinism everybody wakes up again until something like this happens but the Hadith teach teaches that Allah rubbed Adams back and all of us who would come from him came forth from Adam and we stood upon this plane and a covenant was made between all of us and Allah and this is it was a meet back and This is what results in our having the fitra the the natural Recognition that there is but one true.

God Allah because we were there see I've played for you these comments by Sheikh astrakhani a number of months ago, or maybe over a year ago now. I don't remember when it was. So the idea that they come up with is look you're born.

Oh, you're born a Muslim. If you're no longer a Muslim today, that means you're an apostate. What is The legal penalty for apostasy in Islam death. So if you're born a Muslim and you're no longer Muslim now, you're living in the West.

Then You are already under the penalty of death for having apostatized from Islam anyways. So it doesn't matter collateral damage. No, you're an apostate. You're actually getting what you deserve. There you go.

And so that is the radicalized form now again, the the moderate will say no you need to look at this. No, you need to look at that, but they're all drawing from the same sources and the sources contradict each other.

That's the problem. That's the problem we may want the moderates to win the debates. Actually, we want the moderates and the radicals to stop debating at all and abandon the whole thing it's false. It's not true.

But we might want the the moderates to win those debates but the problem is any debate position is only as sound as the sources upon which the debate is taking place and the sources in Islam Make us, you know when I hear our leaders our political figures going.

We need a political solution in the Middle East blah blah blah blah. They are just so naive and ignorant. It is enough to make you Just just become ill they don't understand the system they're talking about and yet they've been put in a position of having to make decisions about these things and Me it was all the same time the people in the Middle East look at us and they look at the garbage Hollywood's cranking out and they say see the great Satan.

They go on YouTube and they watch I watch our senators standing on the Senate floor drunk and they go see.

Alcohol.

Can't drink it in Islam. Your leaders soused. Great. Satan gotta fight you. Doesn't exactly open up a lot of opportunities for dialogue now, does it? Yeah. So there you go. That's why you need to understand these things now.

I mentioned in my article I said Lord willing I'll comment on the contrast between Islam's use of politics and militarism as a means of Expansion with the biblical view of how Christ is building his kingdom in the hearts and minds of his people.

On the dividing line. Tomorrow 11 a .m. Well, that's where we are now.

And.

Whenever you discuss these things you immediately have the atheists and others. You say look there's not a dime's worth of difference between the fundamentalist Muslim and the fundamentalist Christian.

Now, of course the term fundamentalist today No longer has any meaning it has been completely torn from its historical roots and Now refers to the closed-minded radical Devotee who is beyond reason beyond capacity to exercise logic.

That is that is the meaning of fundamentalist now that's not what it used to mean. I Have even been on radio stations many years ago Defending the fundamentalist position because of course historically what it meant was a person who accepts the fundamentals of a religious faith.

It had nothing to do with whether you were actually open-minded enough to know Why other people believed what other people believed and to interact with them in a respectful way. Now, it simply means well.

For a Christian it means the pastor of the church that couldn't burn the Bibles On couldn't burn the the books on Halloween, but they just tore him up and threw him in a trash can. That is a fundamentalist in most people's minds someone who just doesn't matter what you say to him.

It's it's it just bounce off. There's there's nobody on this side listening and so They say look there's there's absolutely no difference because let's face it. What basically Osama bin Laden is saying is this?

He's saying Allah is the creator of all people. Allah has given his law his Sharia and in that Sharia is Expressed his divine will for how men are to live and the only way to truly be happy in this life is to live as Allah would have you to live because you are his creation and that That Sharia must be established around the world for the good of mankind and they say look.

You look at the New Testament. What does Jesus say? Someday everyone's gonna stand before him. Every knee will bow every tongue will confess Jesus told a parable about the rebellious people who are bought before him and killed.

There's going to be a day of judgment. Jesus is the judge Conquering King Lord of Lords, etc, etc. What's the difference? Well, first of all. For many Christians, they are completely terrified of admitting the Bible's teaching that someday there's going to be a judgment and That Jesus will be a conquering King and he will rule and reign on this earth.

They're terrified of that. Oh, well, that sounds that's a very postmodern. Well, it's not that's true. There are Presentations of Jesus in the New Testament at least the New Atheists have gotten this part, right?

You know remember we've mentioned this just last week that The New Atheists at least go you people that go Old Testament God mean nasty New Testament God. Have you read the New Testament? You're skipping the good parts here because There's all sorts of wrath and stuff here too, and they're right only partially but they are at least right.

So the first thing to do is to admit the propriety of certain parallels because you can't give a meaningful answer and so you have been truthful about the facts and the fact is Jesus will rule and reign he's building his kingdom has been for 2 ,000 years and Someday every knee will bow some in some in loving adoration and some in subjection and.

That's fact.

So are they right? Well, of course not. Well, why not? Because the means by which this takes place in Islam. How do you become a Muslim? Well, there's a certain string of Arabic words you say and poof.

You're a Muslim then you say the five daily prayers and you fast during Ramadan and you gives the cot and. That's you're a Muslim. But that's not how a person becomes a Christian. Well, at least not biblically.

Sadly much of false Christianity really has nothing to say here. But leaving that aside speaking of biblical Christianity. The only true Christian is a Christian who's been made a Christian by the Spirit of God.

There has been true repentance. There's been true faith. There has been regeneration. It is a spiritual act and It is a spiritual act of sovereignty on the part of God. It is a Kingdom that Christ has been building that is in the hearts of his people.

That kingdom even exists in Saudi Arabia. Where there are Christians and they are persecuted and they are in prison. But Christ's kingdom exists there and cannot be wiped out by any power because it is not within human power to wipe it out and.

So that kingdom is a spiritual kingdom and it is Created in the hearts and minds of people as they are brought into relationship with the Holy God through Jesus Christ. It cannot be forced upon someone at the end of a rifle.

You can say all the words and whatever languages you want that will not change the heart now. Muslims understand that they're at least thinking Muslims understand that there are a lot of nominal Muslims in the world, too.

Who are not truly in subjection to a law. They're not. They may say the prayers. They may go through the motions. But it really doesn't impact them and and at least thinking Muslims in the West see this and are troubled by it.

But there's nothing within their system that can change that their system Allows for that it even promotes it to be perfectly honest with you. And so the fundamental difference between the establishment of Christ's kingdom and the establishment of Sharia Is the mechanism by which it is to take place.

God does it? Miraculously and spiritually through regeneration. That's Christianity. Islam. Militarism. Fear terror the sword. I Know that there are moderate Muslims going. No, no, no, it can't be done that way, but that's how it's been done in the past and Even when Islam succeeds in taking over an area.

Does it really change anyone's heart? I? Mean people might submit just out of fear just just to stay alive. But that's not much of a Real commitment now is it so the fundamental difference is that Christianity is a divine work.

It is a spiritual work and when Christ returns He's not going to have to raise armies and stuff like that. Because you see Christ is the one from whom right now if you are not in subjection to him. You're stealing his air.

Every beat of your heart comes from his hand. And if you're not thankful for it Well, it's pretty easy for him to stop that. He's a judge. He has all power. He doesn't have to bring tanks and airplanes and any any weapons of mass destruction.

Because you're already in his hand he already controls every aspect of your life and So establishing his sovereignty in the physical world. Well, it really won't be that difficult to do. Eight seven seven seven five three three three four one.

I will be on The radio Paul Edwards program at 220 Eastern Time no, no 220 my times of 420 Eastern Time. I think it's in Detroit To discuss these same issues. So if you are in that area You might want to listen at that time.

I'm not sure if those programs are archived, but you've just heard everything I have to say anyway, so.

But.

We'll be on that program this afternoon. Eight seven seven seven five three three three four. One is the phone number if you're on if you would like to call in on that subject or other subjects because obviously there are other things to be discussing, but I don't know about you.

I fly all the time. I fly all the time. I fly way too much and. That just became an even less enjoyable experience. I mean, I always try to avoid that last period of time hitting the restroom anyways.

But in a sense the man succeeded. Because I don't care what city you're flying into but especially if you're on an international flight. Everyone's gonna be looking around. I'll just tell you a quick story before we go to our phone calls.

I saw a very similar situation to this one's not in the sense of the fire and stuff like that, but. They said that this man spent, you know, 20 minutes in the bathroom. Well, we know what he was doing.

He was mixing his chemicals together out of his underwear.

But I.

Was on a flight on September 10th, not this year's four years ago on September 10th, but it was after 9 -11 and I was flying to Toronto and. While we were still boarding I was in first class. I had gotten my free upgrade.

I don't think I was the frequent flyer yet. It's because my wife actually worked for the airline but I was in first class and. This guy dressed a little oddly. Not an not a North American. Couldn't tell exactly where he was from but he was from someplace else.

Pushes by everybody and goes into the first-class restroom while people are still boarding. It happens once in a while, but he was rather brusque. Had had sandals on. Was in there for a while. Comes back out.

Goes back behind the first-class cabin because he's. I think he was in like row six or something like that. Shortly after we take off. As soon as you get up. He was back in there again now. As soon as he went back into the second time I caught the eye of the flight attendant and she saw me.

And I didn't say anything. I just sort of and.

She went.

She nodded her head that she had seen it as well. So he comes out goes back to his seat. See. Ten minutes later he stands up and She blocks his path and She said sir. This is for the first class only.

Please use the rear one. Well, he gets upset. What do you mean? I've got to go. This is the closest one.

So I stood up.

This is back May of 2005. I weighed 254 pounds height of the weightlifting period for me. So I wasn't I what when I stood. So if I stood up in the aisle, there wasn't a place to go in the aisle and Other people in first class are looking to so he goes back to his seat, but you can tell that he is agitated and.

So she said to me, you know, she started talking to me the flight attendant. I said look I'm a spouse of a.

You.

Just use term spouse. I know that that they know that your wife or husband works the airline. I'm a spouse. What do you want me to do? It says if he comes up again, take him out. Get get get in the way and and do not let him pass.

Take him out. And then she brought yet the rest of flight crew up and we sort of formed a cordon and They went through that bathroom with a fine-tooth comb. They went in there. What's he what's going on in here?

And when we landed. That guy Remember he wasn't in first class. He ran past all of us in first class and if you land up in Toronto and you're going through customs. You get to walk about 14 miles to get there.

I think we land in the States and walk into Canada or something it's ridiculous and He ran past all was by time. We got to the Where they you know check passports stuff like that nowhere to be seen. I mean he literally ran out of the airport.

There's one of my stories. What was going on the guy needed some ammonium ad. I don't know maybe it's possible. Or what something else going on don't know. But seemed pretty stupid to be doing that on an international flight on September 10th you know just didn't seem right and.

And there's a lot of this stuff going on that's just all there is to it we see why. And what happened on flight to 254 8 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1 we're gonna take your phone calls.

Justification by Faith and Ministry Promotion

We'll be right back. The history of the Christian Church pivots on the doctrine of justification by faith.

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Alpha and Omega takes that message to every group that we deal with while equipping the body of Christ as well. Support Alpha Omega Ministries and help us to reach even more with the pure message of God's glorious grace.

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Mormonism, the Book of Mormon, and the Priesthood

And on back to the dividing line, let's get to our phone calls and We've got plenty of lines open eight seven seven seven five three three three four one. Let's talk with Kyle. Hi Kyle.

Hi there, James. Thanks for taking my call. Appreciate it. Yes, sir. Well a couple weeks ago. I had some Mormon. Um, I bet you they weren't very elderly were they? It's a little bit funny my you know way I use the term elder in the way they use it.

Is.

Vastly different. Well, the amazing thing is when I talked to my first two elders, we were the same age. So now I look at him I go. Oh good grief. They're younger than my youngest.

Yeah, I bet we're close. I'm only 22 and I bet they were about 19 or 20. Yeah. Yeah, my goal is to try to loving engage Book of Mormon. Yes.

Yeah, and so, you know, I could have saved you. I could have saved you some time and just told you to read.

Second Nephi second third Nephi like second Nephi twenty-five Princeton center BC which helpful just because.

No, I think I think that that's that's quite relevant if you're really ready to engage it the the problem is these young men themselves have been given a whole lot of Questionable material based upon farms the foundation for ancient research and Mormon studies, which actually that's not even their name anymore.

They they they've now been sort of absorbed into BYU, but it's a their apologist crank out books attempting to provide answers to the Glaring problems of the anachronisms in the Book of Mormon issues of archaeology and things like that so if you're gonna go there, you really need to know your stuff because They're gonna they're basically gonna say well, you know, what about this? what about that and they have their answers and if all we've got is just a very surface level understanding of what our Objection is now we got a problem.

Because we're gonna be telling them they shouldn't be offering surface level objections to the Christian faith. So we need to be need to be careful at that point. So it's possible to go there. It's not the first place I go.

But interestingly enough one of the more I guess I would have to identify it as Obviously supernatural experiences that I have had in witnessing the Mormons was outside the North Gate of the temple in Salt Lake City one day a guy came up to me and Engaged me in conversation.

And like I said, that's not no normally normally I don't immediately go to the issue of archaeology in the Book of Mormon Anthropology in the Nephites and Lamanites and so on and so forth now that I haven't read extensively on it I had but it's just not my first area to go.

But I felt a very strong impression that that's what I needed to do. And so I did and It ended up turning out that this gentleman was a student of Anthropology and so it was exactly where I needed to go to get his attention.

So I'm not saying that that isn't where a person should go. It's just you really need to have a decent background in it to be able to make a go of it.

All enough understanding of ungraced Peter 3 first Peter high priest and that. As Hebrews explained. Yeah. Well a couple things first of all.

If you're going to go the direction of gospel and grace first remember that the the gospel of grace requires the the God of Scripture to make any sense and when you have an Exalted man from another planet who himself has been in a fallen state and was dependent upon Some type of gracious help from the pre-existing God.

That really doesn't provide a solid foundation for a real understanding of the biblical message and so I've always argued that while one of the goals that we have is to present a clear presentation of the gospel that especially for Mormons that has to be coupled with a Presentation of who the one true God is because they are so fundamentally flawed it at that most foundational point and so I would I would emphasize that if we have if we haven't established that then the conversation does tend to Cover a lot of ground that it may not really need to be covering in regards to the intermediate state.

The priesthood subject though is actually one that we have started conversations with we have a track called. Are you an Aaronic priest? I think there's got there's got to be at least a couple hiding someplace in a box.

Mr.. Pierce, don't you think are you an Aaronic priest? There's got to be some over there in the dark recesses. Maybe we can get one to Kyle. But do you have is the Mormon my do you have letters to a Mormon elder?

Right well yeah in fact I've had more than missionaries fight over who got to the one copy that I had with me. So it was really oh yeah, especially because the the older edition which is now the newer edition again.

The cover I designed I'd go through it and show how it was all relevant to Mormon missionaries. I had specifically designed it in that way would need to be updated I think today to use the same tracks.

They're using but it still recognized most of the stuff on it and In it I go through each of those areas, and how I would present it. And yeah, I just I see a couple copies the studio audience just snagged a few copies of the the tract on the priesthood so.

Maybe you could get hold of rich later today, and I get an order is more my brother. And we'll throw in some of the Aaronic priesthood tracts. But I cover in the book as well because it is an excellent approach.

Very few Mormons know anything about the priesthood and they're almost never ever Challenged on the subject of the priesthood because most Christians don't know anything about it either. And as you mentioned in the book of Hebrews.