June 28, 2021 Show with Josh Fryman on “Politics & Current Events in the Pulpit”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions and now here's your host

Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio wishing you all a happy Monday on this 28th day of June 2021.

And today I have a very special guest on the program. This is the man that almost became my pastor but by God's mercy he dodged a bullet.

That is my very dear friend Pastor Josh Fryman who was at one time the pastor of Community Baptist Church of Riverhead, Long Island where I almost became a member before the

Lord made it clear to me that he had different plans for me and that was to move to Pennsylvania.

But Pastor Josh Fryman is currently the pastor of New Testament Baptist Church of Larimore, North Dakota and today we are addressing a very timely and controversial theme,

Politics and Current Events in the Pulpit, the Church's Responsibility to Find and to Maintain the

Biblical Balance. And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Josh Fryman.

Thanks, Chris. I'm honored to be on. Well, first of all, let our listeners know about New Testament Baptist Church of Larimore, North Dakota.

Well, we are a church of, I think, filled with great people.

I was privileged to move here three years ago. I served as an assistant pastor until the previous pastor retired and then about 18 months ago, the church graciously voted to bring me on as their pastor.

And we're located 60 miles south of the Canadian border and about a half hour west of the

Minnesota border, so that's where we're located and it's in a great part of the country. I've said this other places, so I'll go ahead and say it on your show, too.

Although I don't know that I've ever said it to as large of an audience as your show.

But I believe North Dakota's probably the best -kept secret in the

Union, so... Well, praise God for that, being sandwiched between two communist republics.

Yeah. Yeah. The joke was, back last year when everything was going crazy with the pandemic, that we really don't have to change anything because North Dakota has been social distancing since 1889.

Well, I hope that the Lord provides for me the opportunity to visit you out there sometime.

I've never been to North Dakota. Yeah, we'd love to have you. Great. And for anybody who would like to find out more information about New Testament Baptist Church of Larimore, North Dakota, you can go to larimorentbc, which stands for newtestamentbaptistchurch .org.

Larimore, L -A -R -I -M -O -R -E -N -T -B -C dot org.

And I know that you are the son of a Baptist pastor. I don't know if the lineage of pastors goes back any further than that, but is your dad still pastoring?

He is. I just want to say a quick word, if I may, and I know that I don't want to bore your listeners, but the website will soon be updated, so that's a good thing.

So you've just motivated me to make sure we do that sooner than later. I guess that's why the pastor's picture, he's wearing a

Union Army uniform, and there's a different name than yours. Yeah, a lot of history here.

No. Yeah, my dad, he pastored in Madison, Ohio, Cornerstone Baptist Church.

This month, actually, he celebrated his 41st year there as the pastor.

If the Lord allows, he'll be retiring here one of these days, and I hope he's able to soon.

He's earned it. I did have a grandfather, Delmer Powell.

That's my mom's father. He was a missionary in Ethiopia, and I wish

I had a thought to tell you about him earlier. He's a really interesting story there. I have some videos

I'll send you later, actually. He was converted while he was managing a drive -in movie theater, and he kind of was ahead of his time with technology.

He believed that was going to be the way motion pictures and things like that. This would have been right after World War II, and so he invested into that, and he had his own equipment.

Back in the 1960s, when he went to Ethiopia, he took a lot of what we would call video footage.

A lot of people that were contemporaries of his have pictures from camera, but he actually has some video footage of his time over there as a missionary.

He was a missionary in Ethiopia from 1961 to 1968. Anyway, that's my family.

My father is a pastor, and my father -in -law is a pastor. Of course,

I have met your dad, but I've known your father -in -law for many years, long before I ever met you.

In fact, it might have even been before you were a Christian. There's no need to rub that in.

Wow! We all get it, Chris. You know everybody, all right? Oh, boy!

I needed that laugh, actually. Send your in -laws and your father—I've never met your mom, but send your in -laws my greetings.

I will. Thank you. And I hope some of them are listening to that now. Can you repeat the city in Ohio where your your dad pastors

Maslam it's near Canton. How do you spell Maslam? M -a -s -s -i -l -l -o -n

Okay All righty. Well, I hope for hope the folks in Ohio will make note of that and visit your dad's church as well

Well, this is a topic that we are addressing today that divides the body of Christ even divides

Brothers and sisters in Christ that are identical otherwise in theology and doctrine and practice

Might even divide people in the same pew They may be very concerned dismayed and discouraged by their own

Pulpit depending upon what side of the fence they are on In regard to politics and current events in the pulpit, but what was the driving force?

Behind you wanting to discuss this topic today Well, it's it's one that has come up as you just mentioned it's come up Several times

I was asked recently By someone from another church. They said, you know, how how can

I pray for my pastor? And I thought that was a great question And I didn't want to just give a you know

Quick answer. I want to think about it, but you know, the more I did pray and think about it I thought well, you know, it's it there's what

I need as well. That is the Ability to Stand behind the pulpit

In a way that's pleasing to the Lord and in a way that's effective for the church and that's only done through preaching the word feeding the flock and I know that there's a lot of temptation

Right now, especially with social media the way it is and how everything's kind of in our faces not just our folks in the church

But also pastors and so there's all this information and there could be a temptation I'm not saying every pastor experiences, but there could be a temptation to Try to figure out.

Okay, which topic should I address this week? You know, which what's in the news recently? You know, how should

I prepare our church for this? You know, how should I lead them to think in this situation? And I think that that could actually problematic.

That's why the Politics in the pulpit. I would be on the side where politics should not be in the pulpit and that's not saying

I don't think that we should address current events. I'm not saying that we shouldn't address issues we absolutely should but in the context of Of scripture and faithfully

Expositing scripture and whether it be going through a book or going through a text or whatever

The Lord has you at that time, but I think to constantly be in a reactive mode

Is not a good good thing so I Answered the question is pray for your pastor get that he had discernment and what to do that would be namely pleasing to the

Lord and then secondly effective for your church and Then what

I thought about it. I thought you know, this is something I'm on social media I have friends that we have private message conversations and you know, we just see the interaction on kind of what's trending and Christendom and You know the reality hit that, you know, most people in our churches they not that they don't care about those things, but it's not as important to them as Perhaps what we we make it out to be

So you have You know, I guess what

I'm saying is you have all these voices already, right? You're and I'm done. You're you're one of them. So I'm thankful that there's good voices out there

But radio podcast YouTube, you know vlogs blogs websites TV you name it there's there's dozens of Voices that people have in their lives and there has to be a place they can go where they know they're hearing the truth

It's not Shaded in any way it is the truth and the God designed a place for that.

It's the church It's the pill where the pill and ground of the truth And so when they come to church, they they should expect and they should get truth, you know

Not an opinion not not a thought about a political candidate not not an opinion about a presidential candidate or not a message in support of The president or a message it, you know against the president and this does happen by the way in Texas There was a guy

Robert Jeffers He has on the on the Lord's Day brother. I mean, this is on the

Lord's Day he has Sean Hannity from Fox News on this platform and I Just thought about that.

I thought that's that's really tragic, you know, I mean that that Nothing against watching the news but on the

Lord's Day right Hannity there Sean Hannity Is I think at best a nominal

Roman Catholic? He was actually attending a an evangelical Church on Long Island for quite a while with his wife

But then he left there and this was years ago that he left there and returned Returned to the

Catholic Church, but I don't know right now If he has remained in the Catholic Church or any church for that matter, but Yeah, yeah, that's

I mean it's clear as much as I may agree Most of the time not all the time even politically with Sean.

I don't think he understands the gospel Right and there and there's a place for that, you know, hey

Thursday night. Do you want to have a meeting? That's fine, but it's the Lord's Day and this is the church meeting together.

We're assembling ourselves together Psalm 89 speaks about this. This is not a New Testament principle the idea of God's people assembling

Psalm 89 in verse 7 Now the psalmist says that God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the

Saints and to be had in reverence Of all them that are about him. So that that that's what we're doing at church

You know, we're assembling of God's people and we're ready to hear the Word of God we're reverencing him, but it's not a time to come together and and Kind of have a pep rally about Republican or conservatism and actually that's that's my greatest fear for American churches is that somehow and I think if you were

Any any person who was honest they'd look at the kind of landscape of Christian quote -unquote social media

American conservatism has become almost Synonymous with biblical

Christianity, at least you would think that the way some people Behave and it's just not it's not the same thing.

And I'm not I have conservative values I'm not saying that conservatives are wrong, but we're

Christians first. That's the whole point. We're Christians first and I guess if I could sum it up this way and you have to forgive me here.

I'm not a I'm not a seasoned interviewee, I don't know what

I'm called, but I'll really try hard not to ramble, but If you think about it, this is kind of the burden back to us somewhat earlier

There there are these things that are dangerous There are these things that are out there and we would be foolish to not acknowledge them and to act like they're not there but The Bible says that the fruit of the

Spirit in the fruit of the Spirit is something called temperance, right? This is balance. This is self -control and it's the ability to not swing all the way over to one side and you know or the other and I think especially in the pulpit you have to have

The right balance and the scriptures the only thing that's going to ensure that we do that So when people come into our church and I realize you know, we live in North Dakota It's a different environment different culture, but people have souls everywhere.

You know people have needs everywhere and The scripture has the same thing for Christians in North Dakota as it does for Christians in Bangladesh or Pakistan or China or New York, you know and The all the subjects out there, you know the woke culture critical race theory

The left liberals, you know conservative Democrat all this stuff There there there could be a temptation to deal with those things

But many of our folks brother, they're coming in and they they need help in their marriage, you know

They need help with their kids. They're having issues on the job. They want to know how to witness more effectively they want to or they need to be taught how to disciple, you know, these are also major things and very important and I Just think it's important for us for those of us that are privileged to serve a church as a pastor

To make sure that we are approaching the pulpit approaching our responsibility to pass as pastors

Effectively and not just in a way that is Reacting to things that are out in the world and That they're there.

But what about our churches, you know, what about our people? When I say our people, I mean, I know the

Lord's people, but you know the church that we've been privileged to serve at so That makes sense.

Yes, and I happen to be one who loves and Believes the best biblically faithful methodology to preaching is expositional

Expository preaching where Books of the Bible are going through studied examined

Exegeted by the preacher pastor. Yeah and so that the congregation and even those visiting gets a

Understanding of God's Word in context and That Topical preaching was that which has its time and place for appropriateness

If that is the weekly habit of a pastor or preacher To be involved in topical preaching it may lend itself to hobby horsing

But but having said that not I don't even know if you'll disagree with me but if an area of The scripture that happens to be the area for that Sunday during an expositional examination of certain texts

Happens to directly Involve in some way

Something that is going on in our culture like Homosexuality like murder of the unborn what have you or even the

Evil of wokeism in critical race theory Obviously those things are not in the scriptures by that title or those titles

I should say but certainly Thinking of oneself more highly than he ought and Brother hating brother because of their skin color their ethnicity these things are in the scriptures.

Yeah, and Certainly when you have something as gravely important and dangerous

And Antiscriptural as wokeism as critical race theory as intersectionality all of these things that have come to infiltrate and Overrun even churches that were once Biblically faithful and some that still claim to be but they have that intermingled in their teaching.

Don't you think? that a Congregation should not be left in ignorance

Oh, I would agree with that wholeheartedly I think the Bible says that the men of Ithaca they were they were men of that understanding of the times and they were that Was a good thing

Our churches should be equipped, but I think as pastors we have to remember that they are the church and they have the

Holy Spirit they have the Word of God and My primary responsibility is to nourish them and feed them

The scriptures and I'll give you an example that happened here and at our church We're going through the book of Acts right now

And there were several times that right in the study of Acts it met right with what's going on in our world

And I did preach a message on how we ought to obey God rather than man Then I explained how that would be seen in practical ways and how we want to be good neighbors to our community

But we also don't want to negate the responsibility. We have as Christians first and and we dealt with it

But then I moved on I didn't spend four weeks on it. I didn't make it a you know, kind of like Our thing

I didn't flood Facebook with you know, the dangers of it and all that and there are there are dangers

I'm not saying that there's not but let me give you another illustration and I hope this hope this makes sense

I had someone close to me very recently Who was sick and they had something going on and they needed they needed to get better obviously and the

What they did not receive from the doctor was a four -week dissertation on how evil their disease was what they what they received basically was medicine was nourishment and This nourishment the feeding the medicine it put the body in a position to be strong enough to Get over the the sickness, right?

And I thought about that and I thought you know, that's really what preaching should be, you know preaching when the church shows up preaching is

Like and I mean it is right into the veins of the church Truth and God's Word and God's thoughts and God's expectations for believers and Then as a pastor, my job is to feed the church, but then also to trust the church, right?

Like if the church is strong spiritually if they're fed well, then they're gonna know

How to discern right from wrong. They don't need me to hold their hand in every area They don't need me to tell them how to think or how to believe

I've Done my diligence to know the state of the flock. I've prayed

I've studied I've prepared Now I'm going to feed them what the Lord has and then they're being nourished they're able to then go out and live as the church and Chris the thing is if we if we sort of sit back from this right and we look at this with our

God Christianized right not necessarily our American ones and we would we would find really quickly that this is nothing new like Christians have lived through difficult times for centuries and One of the most famous books in the

New Testament. We've got verses that are quoted all the time Philippians Paul said to the church of Philippi chapter 2

Ish I think but he said I'm gonna try to see if I can find it here, but He was talking about them doing everything without murmuring and disputing and then here's what he said

He said that you may be blameless and harmless the sons of God without rebuke in the midst So they're in the middle of a crooked and perverse nation

Among whom he shined his lights in the world Incidentally the same epistle he would write about being happy having joy and in your heart be having joy in the

Lord, so how do we shine as Light in the middle of a crooked and perverse nation

Well the same way they did what the believers of Philippi did or Pontus or Cappadocia or you know?

Galatia where you name it he said the next person holding forth the word of life, so That's how that's when

I could became an example Church for from from them sounded out the word of the

Lord and everything keeps going back to to the scriptures and Incidentally enough forgive me for rambling here, but I'm gonna.

I think there's an important point When when Paul said you're in the middle of a crooked and perverse nation 2 ,000 years ago, okay?

Well, then there's a good chance Christians 2 ,000 years later are gonna get the same boat got to serve that epistle on purpose

But two chapters later. He says finally my brethren whatsoever things are and then he lists things that we have to think

On things that are true honest just pure lovely good report and in Romans 16

Toward the end of the chapter and Romans at the end of the book Paul says that He would have a simple

Concerning evil and you don't know the simplest Know a lot right, so we're to be wise under that which is good and simple concerning evil

So I'm definitely not saying that we should be ignorant of what's going on the world absolutely not we should be

Informed absolutely, but we have to balance it If all we're focusing on is how bad everything is in the world and then we have that misplaced stop

I can't believe it. Why are we shocked by that? The of all if if there's any group of people in the world that should not be surprised how bad things are

It should be the Lord's people because the Lord said this would happen and the

Lord You don't tell us how the world thinks and the world is the world and the world is full of idolatry and immorality and it's why they need the gospel and I guess that's my main point that I was going to try to lead up to a little bit later

But we'll jump onto it now is that that's really our mission is getting the gospel to the world

It's not to sit back and point at how bad the world is say I can't believe you know

Look at the hypocrisy of Biden and Kamala Harris and you know, look at what this Democrat Congress is it's it's wrong abortions wrong, but Immorality is wrong

Heterosexual immorality is wrong homosexual immorality is wrong. It's all thin But there's an answer for it

It's the gospel in fact And in fact, we have to pick up right where you left off there because we have to go to our first break

Okay, and if anybody wants to join us with a question of your own for Pastor Josh Freiman Our email address is

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Thanks for helping to keep iron sharpens iron radio on the air This is

Chris Arnzen if you just tuned us in our guests for the full two hours today With a little less than 90 minutes to go is pastor

Josh Fryman of New Testament Baptist Church of Laramore, North Dakota We are discussing a very timely and controversial theme politics and current events in the pulpit the church's responsibility to find and to maintain the biblical balance our

Email address if you have a question of your own is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen a gmail .com

give us your first name at least Your city and state of residence in your country of residence if you live outside the USA you were just saying before the break

That the gospel is the answer to every Dilemma and evil faced by mankind and if you could pick up Sure, which

I know that that's nothing, you know, I know that your listeners know that already I bring that up only because If you like let's go back to critical race theory will culture that kind of thing

Which is wrong and and there are lots of Bible that we could use to show

Including principles like James teaches that wisdom from above is without partiality

So if there are things that we can make decisions on that are not based on truth

But based on skin color or based on upbringing or based on class or whatever it is, we have to be careful because We're to be making good judgment.

We're making righteous judgment were to be discerning you talks about Knowing to be able to make a difference

Have compassion making a difference others save with fear right now You just there's not a cookie -cutter solution to all of life's problems

Unless you're talking about the spiritual one, which is the sin that separates man from God That is that's the gospel and I've said this

I've used this illustration before You know all this talk in our world about racial reconciliation, you know,

I would we wish we could all get along I wish we were all on the same page, you know, I wish that everybody You know got along I didn't fight and all this and you know

Christians are over here saying well Go to a Bible preaching church, and you'll find it

How is it that there are congregations all across the country that have rich people poor people

Latino? Asian Black white and all but all different cultures and everyone gets along just fine

How did that happen? Well, we would say quite Convictionally, it's

Christ Paul reminded this To the church of Corinth He's reminded the church of Corinth about this

I should say When there were divisions and schisms in the in the church not in the world.

This is in the church They they got issues with each other By the time you get to chapter 10.

He's he's pointing them towards the Lord's Supper table and this Communion, which is our common

Union is Christ and at the Lord's Supper table. You don't have A Favorites you can't

I mean, we're all we're all the same at the foot of the cross and I know you've heard that quote But that's not cliche.

That's real. That's doctrine. We're all sinners saved by grace. So Yes, there is an answer to the world and it is the gospel and that's not just looks good on a missions poster, that's real and Helping our churches understand that it's so important of part of our ministry that It's good to discern evil and I'm not in any way suggesting we ignore it

We absolutely should discern evil. I've used this illustration before about pastors

Shepherds don't hate wolves, but they love sheep But if you saw a shepherd killing a wolf you'd say well, why is he being so mean to that wolf?

Well, it has nothing to do with him hating the wolf. It has everything to do with him loving his sheep And so you better believe there are times when we have to go on the offensive and we attack and we

Show and we protect the flock But that's not a pastor's sole

Responsibility. He's not only to protect the flock. He's also to feed the flock and That's why

I appreciate the way you titled the the program today is that it's not ignoring one side or the other it's finding the proper balance and I just think with today with so much information coming at us.

It's very easy to Get become unbalanced and So the gospel is the answer and it's one thing to sit back and say look how evil this is and we should

You should discern evil you should know But don't be consumed by it.

Don't be overwhelmed by it You have to engage it that it is dark, but we have the light and That there are people that need

Christ there's people that need the gospel and that's our job That's our responsibility. And so while Facebook may be an easy place to share funny memes

That make fun of the president or make fun of Democrats It's also a place that can be used to share the gospel

That you can type out your testimony that you can share a video of a gospel presentation and So that's that's what

I'm getting at is that it's there's nothing wrong with pointing out error But make sure you you then point to the truth

I've said this that our church here, you know, we Someone comment my praise the

Lord for this. This is not I'm not patting myself on the back this is the Lord's goodness and in my life and helping me, but They notice

I don't run down other Denominations now I have run down other denominations doctrine.

I've showed from the Bible why? Roman Catholicism is a false gospel and why you know, the

Pope and you know people that hope that are false and I have no problem with that But they noticed in the preaching that I didn't

Take a lot of time on that to just make fun of or talk about how you know,

I can't believe they do this and my response to them was that Well, there is a time to point out error.

There is a time to expose it for sure But we don't waste all our time on that We want to we want to expose it show it's wrong and then get to the light then get to the cross then

Point to Christ and why would I want to preach? 45 minutes and if any of people if anybody from my church is listening

They're laughing right now because I usually go 55 to 65 minutes, but why would I want to preach?

you know 45 of the 55 minutes on how wrong the world is when

I can Show that this it's wrong But then here's the answer. This is why you can have hope what it first Peter wrote for his epistle

Don't think it's strange you're gonna enter fiery trials some come from without the Lord sends some into our life, but this is part of the

Christian life and We can be good testimonies through this we can be good examples through this that the gospel works

Not only through reconciliation, but also just enduring and persevering and it's it's real and this is not just Religious talk

Christ is real and he changes lives and he gives life and he enables us to do things

We otherwise should not be able to do like be happy in the middle of a pandemic be happy in the middle of inflation rising

How can you have a piece? Well, I know the path of understanding someone who doesn't know the Lord but let me tell you what the

Bible says and and then We can go back to that if you want, but I do want to say one quick illustration for About the balance because while we're on break

I was thinking about this and really asking the Lord to help me. I don't say that Frivolously I generally was

And I think I think we find a good example And like I said, I went to the went to the book of Acts of our church first We're almost done with it or in chapter 24 right now a little plug for our live stream.

But anyway The Apostle Paul was arrested at Philippi and the

Bible says that he was beaten he was scourged he was thrown into prison and He never said a word then the earthquakes chains fall off prison doors swing open the jailer comes in you're familiar with the story the

Philippian jailer is converted he saved and then

He's washing Paul's stripes, right and he says hey good news You're you're able to go but Paul didn't say praise the

Lord. I'm out of here. He said I'm not so fast I'm a Roman citizen. I have rights

Well, what's interesting to me about that Chris is that he had rights when he was getting beaten, too He had rights when he was thrown in a prison, but he never said anything

And I believe it's a good example of how the gospel and Christ is

Preeminent not prominent but preeminent Christ and the gospel is not just One thing out of a bunch of things it no, it's one thing over everything.

This is cautions one Christ is worthy of death preeminence in all things so the

Apostle Paul Using discernment and this goes back to through the Spirit, you know, we have to have to be led by the

Spirit Temperance and joy peace all the things that go with that the Apostle Paul He says as a

Roman citizen. Nope, just endure it. Take it. There's something else God's doing something else right now

God's God's at work doing something else and then after the man got saved and and his family then

Knowing okay. That's why we were here. We've we've obeyed we finished what we believe the

Lord wanted us to do then He said hey not so fast. I have rights as a

Roman citizen and he held them accountable and I'm just I think that's a really good illustration of the balance.

I'm trying to talk about he didn't Ignore the fact that he had rights as a Roman citizen.

He he brought them up, but it wasn't his main Message it wasn't his biggest offense was that my rights as a

Roman citizen are being Removed and I'm being abused He genuinely believed that there's something here for the gospel's sake and I Just think

I'm not suggesting I've arrived or I have it perfect, but I can I can promise you I'm trying to Trying to get there.

And this is this is where I want to live. It's where I want our church to live where we are

Focused on our mission as Christians first then everything else and I found a quote and I just want to read it to you real quick this from Charles Spurgeon He says though the harrow go over and over thy soul and the deep plow cut into thy very heart

Though thou be maimed and wounded and left for dead Yet if the

Spirit of God do it it is a blessing indeed and That is exactly

I just preached to first Peter recently it's what's why it's a little fresh on my heart but this is what

Peter says you come to more valuable and You and I've had discussions before brother

Where how weak the American churches are and how

How there's there's there's such a appetite for the world There is almost a mockery of things that would be considered holy and right and righteous

Just the family itself, you know a father a mother and children a Lady wanting to be a mom wanting to be a wife.

These are these are godly things. These are good things a husband a father a man being content, you know to live the rest of his life with one woman all that's old -fashioned

But you know even in some Christian quote -unquote circles and you and I've discussed in the past how how liberal things were going and I just think that now we're seeing the fruition of it where the a lot of churches their greatest offense

Or that the thing that causes them to stumble Sooner than another isn't the fact

That God is offended by sin and that we have the answer in the gospel and we have to preach it.

It's that You know, our rights are being removed. Let me give you a real -life example and then

I'll I'll be quiet here. I'm Eating into the 90 minutes that we have remaining. So This is on Facebook.

All right Um, this is a man who professes to be a Christian I'm not saying he's not saved

I'm just telling you that he's says he's a Christian and he puts up there about his guns and the

Second Amendment and If you if you want my guns you can come and take them and then see what happens

So let's think let's think through that. I know that we chuckle at that. But I mean, come on, right?

I mean, what is he implying and Is that really the best way that we represent the

Christ that we say saved our lives and you know, he's the head of our church and he's the the one who we strive to live after and If someone says well, you know, it's it's you know, not a big deal, you know

Sin is the way death is the wage of sin and they're sinners and you know, they deserve to die Anyway, you know that we leave better off without them in our population

Okay James and John thought the same thing about a certain Samaritan village and Jesus who had already had his face set toward Jerusalem stopped and turned because of their poor spirit and poor attitude

And the Bible says in Luke chapter 9 that Jesus turned and rebuked them and said you don't know what spirit you are

I'm paraphrasing But the Son of Man has not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them and If James and John this wasn't

Thaddeus and you know, these weren't outliers, this was James and John James and John were susceptible to a spirit where they can be condemnatory and writing off an entire group of people

Because their ego has been affected. Well, then better I'm gonna be That's it's possible for me too and I have to watch out for that I also need to as a pastor equip and feed and teach and train and lead my church not just by Preaching but by example that we we cannot be like that, you know

We think we can't do that. So That that spirit is very possible

People are drawing lines all over the place You're on my side or the other side and if you're not on my side, then you're my enemy, but there's a lot of lines

There's a lot of lines being drawn In fact, we have to pick up right where you left off because we have to go to our midway break right now

If anybody wants anybody wants to join us with a question of your own Send it to Chris Arns at a gmail .com

This is the longer than normal break folks So, please be patient with us because it's grace life radio 90 .1

FM in Lake City, Florida Requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because the

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Hello dear ones my name is Justin Peters and my friend Chris Arnson host of iron sharpens iron radio and I are

Frequently blessed to share great times of fellowship with one another at conferences all over the United States We'll both be enjoying more fellowship together at the g3 conference in Atlanta, Georgia Thursday September 30th through Saturday, October the 2nd on the theme

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Josh Fryman on our theme Politics and current events in the pulpit the church's responsibility to find and to maintain

The biblical balance. We just have some important announcements to make first of all

Please pray for Mike Gadosz the founder of solid -ground -books .com

I just found out last night that his father -in -law Frank Schleip Went home to glory with Christ after 97 years and we

Not only mourn with the Gadosz and Schleip family Over this loss, but we also rejoice in knowing that with certainty

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John my oldest brother 76 years old with cancer critical stage emphysema and inoperable aneurysm

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Your your prayers have borne fruit because my brother John is conscious and He has had three visits

During this recent visit in the hospital this recent stay in the hospital. He's had three visits from my very dear friend pastor

Mac Tomlinson of Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas who many of you May have heard on this program.

He has been interviewed quite a number of times in Iron Trip and Zion radio and I just thank God that Mac is nearby in Texas ministering to my brother and his wife

Jan and my wife Jan just About a minute or so before I returned live after those commercials were airing

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Please pray that not only that the Lord has mercy on my brother physically and heals him

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Or Gives a clear and discernible evidence that he has truly embraced the gospel of Jesus Christ please

Pray that the Lord is merciful to me in giving me The comfort of knowing with great confidence that my brother is on his way

To meet his Savior face to face for eternity. I would really appreciate it Also pray for my brother

Bob as he is having a tumor removed for from his bladder this Wednesday a tumor

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I need a church in the subject line That's also the email address to send in a question to Pastor Josh Fryman of New Testament Baptist Church in Laramore, North Dakota Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

and Pastor Josh you were saying before the break that people are drawing many lines and If I could just interrupt there for a minute

There may be a danger of people misunderstanding you and Coming away with the idea that there is a luxury or a liberty for them to play the safe route and remain neutral on Many very important matters to give you an example

This whole wokeness movement Has made life more difficult for me when people contact me and they contact me every single day asking me for church recommendations

I used to be able to go to my lists and if they were on these lists

I Could with good conscience just pick the Congregations nearest the cities and states and countries where they live

And send them off that information now I very often have to go and contact these churches even if I had had their past their pastors on my show in years past and Asked them.

Where is your church on this woke movement? Because there is no way on earth.

I want to give my hearty recommendation to a church that supports that stuff and and there are things that Are both involved in the world of politics and in a theological realm like you were just speaking about the

Lord's Supper before communion There are people who are teaching that it is an acceptable thing for Black people to have their own private

Lord's Supper services to separate themselves from their white brothers because they want to do things in their own black way and Bringing back separation into vogue and when when when the

Apostle Paul Mentions by name Himelaus and Philetus for their heresy of teaching that the resurrection had already occurred at that time

Don't we have an obligation to warn the Saints, especially when there are men out there who once were theologically faithful Men whose books perhaps were and may still be in the libraries and bookstores of churches

I've had people on this program who nine years ago were Agreeing with me wholeheartedly on the issues that are now in The forefront of the woke movement and they are now nine years later the key people promoting these things these heresies, so so we have to be careful about the

The alleged luxury of remaining neutral and say oh that's political stuff. I don't need to make a stand on these things and And especially when they are not only political the murder of unborn children, for instance is not only political a government

Giving its blessing in fact urging parents to sexually mutilate their children

Who at four years old say mommy daddy? I'm not really a boy. I'm a girl

You give them hormone treatments and have them surgically altered and so on these things are so deeply satanic

How can we know absolutely how can we remain silent in the pulpit about them? You you you don't remain silent in the pulpit about it.

What I'm saying, and I guess Perhaps Not communicating clearly is not a good trait for a pastor to have

Well, I'm not saying that you didn't I'm just saying that I'm trying I'm trying to clarify Yeah, I appreciate that.

And so what I would say is that we absolutely call people out and we call

Ideology out it's in the Bible John had no problem calling out the atrophies Paul had no problem saying what

Alexander did Demons first that had forsaken me And within the church itself

Paul withstood Peter to the faith Because he was to be blamed and That that means he needed it he needed to be rebuked and Peter had allowed his prejudices to affect

His actions and of course that affects the gospel. And so Paul makes it very clear.

Hey, this is wrong Now what the blessing of that is is Peter Doesn't doesn't pull rank and you know,

I am the Apostle He is rebuked and I believe that he made things right later on he'll write his epistle first Peter and He will write it to people in Galatia Which had to be very humbling because all that had written his epistle at least

I believe he had By then and so he's gonna know that these people have already heard that you know I have you with my faith, you know, because of what

I did But so I praise Lord that he you know uses us in spite of ourselves sometimes

So no, I'm definitely not saying we don't engage The world I'm not saying that at all.

I'm not saying that we don't stand in a pulpit and Proclaim truth. We live in a society

Chris where truth is falling on the street. We live we live in a society where Solomon would describe it as there's an evil in the land

Princes are on horse Excuse me. Servants are on horseback and princes are walking People are out of their roles.

It's in reverse The order that God has created Satan is attacking.

We absolutely Should be addressing it from the pulpit What I'm saying is we have to make sure that we balance it with the answer though We it is not enough

To decry the evil in the land We have to point people to the truth.

We have to point people to the solution So we should absolutely say that homosexuality is a sin.

It's not a Lifestyle choice it goes against what God created for a man and for a woman.

We should preach against Transgenderism we should preach against the All the all the moral issues and and and the what goes on on TV and Hollywood and movies and what people we absolutely should preach against sin but God has the answer and the answer is ultimately the gospel, but also in a relational sense, it's the family and Promoting the family and showing what the

Bible says about the family Paul wrote two preachers Timothy and Titus and said hey, here's what

I want you to here's what you should preach and in the church and in both Times he talked about women teaching the younger women.

He talked about the behavior and things in In the church, and these are very practical things.

You know, these are Involving the family he'd write Ephesians and Colossians.

He deals with the family So there's a lot of instruction on How God wants your family?

So my what I'm saying is it's it's not enough for us to say Them out there.

They are bad. I Have to also make sure I'm including what the

Bible teaches and that is to the husbands and wives and children Sitting under the sound of my preaching.

Here's how you can be The light here's how your family can represent truth.

Here's how you just by going out to target and Unless that's being boycotted

There's so many boycotts now that anyway, you go to target with your children That's a testimony and and that so Yes, of course, we should point out error.

We should point out wrong But that's not our message and I'll give you a Bible reference for that Luke chapter 4

Jesus goes in the synagogue. He finds a place in Isaiah and he says

This day is this scripture fulfilled in your hearing you remember that that that that that mean and then he says

Because he has sent me to heal the brokenhearted and he says that the priest deliverance

To the captives recovering a sight for those that are blind and the set at Liberty those that are bruised and That's my point.

Is that we don't only preach about captivity and blindness and bruising we preach

Sight to the blind we preach deliverance to the captive and we preach liberty

To those who sin does bruise. I mean sin sin wounds it it maims

But praise the Lord that you know, he's provided salvation so That we absolutely should point out the the negative and point out the sin, but we also have to live and model and and display the right and and and in truth and my point is

I don't know that mocking people and demeaning people is the best way to To do that.

I'm not saying that you can't ever confront people I'm I'm you know,

I have you know, and I think it should be done, but there's it's one thing to Confront a person in their sin and say look.

I'm a Christian. I don't agree with you I think you're you're causing a lot of harm here, but I Want to you know discuss this?

There's nothing that and then making fun of them because they don't agree with me on a certain position

Wholeheartedly I agree with that like for instance There is a restaurant nearby where I live and one of the

Waiting staff is obviously either a transvestite or Transgendered person as they call them.

I mean this person Will always be a man No matter how he directs dresses or surgically alters himself right, but I'm just using the vernacular of the day as far as transgendered is concerned and It has actually saddened me

I've seen on several occasions When this person's back was turned the customers typically guys laughing at this person usually in a suppressed muffled laugh

They're nudging each other and pointing and stuff when the person's back is turned and of course I would never condone that.

In fact, it's not a laughing matter. It's a right. It's a serious as a heart attack Because it is tragic that this person if this person does not repent will go to hell

But but I understand that there is a difference between Confronting someone even as John the

Baptist did with Herod About about his abominable lifestyle and the sins he was committing there's a difference between doing that and just making fun of someone

Now I am I'm not I'm not saying that there is never a place for making fun of a political figure who?

Says something and or does something that's incredibly moronic But not not necessarily in a sermon.

I'm talking about in some public forum, but at the same time

I do definitely take heed to what you are saying and Agree with you

We have let me get to some of our Listener questions before we run out of time and don't get a chance to acknowledge any of them

Grady a very faithful listener and generous supporter of this program Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina Greetings brothers.

It's always amazed me as to why anyone would want to preach anything besides God's Holy Scriptures if they call themselves a

Christian does this word need to be any clearer than Romans 1? 16 and Romans 2

Timothy 3 16. I'm sorry. That was 2nd Timothy 316 and Hebrews 4 12

When sharing the gospel with someone I may use my testimony, but nothing is more powerful than the

Holy Scriptures Which the Holy Spirit uses to convict of sin righteousness and truth?

Do those that use the pulpit for anything else not understand that or are they adapting to men's philosophies?

that's a great question and I Before you answer. I just think that there is a spectrum of ways that this is

The way that the pastors are involved in Introducing politics into the pulpit.

There are some That are always giving clear biblical answers and refutations and alternatives to What is going on in the political realm and their main focus are the scriptures in the gospel?

but then you have also a Horrible situation in which going on that is probably especially present in the liberal churches the

African American Church at large Where the pulpit may be predominantly if not exclusively used as a political soapbox

So you have a spectrum of areas You know,

I I have always said just to say something that I'm sure you agree with as far as this topic is concerned

I feel very uncomfortable and I have felt very uncomfortable with friends of mine who from the pulpit strongly and passionately endorsed specific candidates by name

And have their candidates name on their bumper stickers and all that as especially for a pastor.

I'm talking about Because if that person turns out to be a fraud That person involves themself in some kind of horrific scandal

How are you going to take back everything that you've said with passion sometimes in an equal measure?

To what you are saying about the Bible then people are going to be getting to wonder about your discernment If you are young people children listening are going to be thinking.

Well, if he said this stuff was true about Jesus How am I supposed to know he

He's not wrong. Just like he said this and that about this political candidate that he was promoting

Yeah, so that's that's all I have to say in the matter. Maybe you could respond to what greedy is that to say?

Yeah, I'm right to the heart of the question And in response what you just said the only

I I'm not infallible That's that's a parent ask anyone in my church

But the but I what I will tell you though The only way that I can guarantee that I never do that is to discipline myself to preach the word period

In the word there are not my opinions. It's God's Word and Being led by his spirit and then in this study and then it's drawing out of the scriptures

What it says not reading into the scriptures what I want it to mean But drawing out of the scripture that's what the nurse the nurse winner for the church

I'm Safe, I there's not there's no room for me To say and this is why you should vote for so -and -so, you know

This is what I can I can give principles that are in the scriptures, right? But I'll tell you to this man's

Was his name Grady? Yes, or Brady. Okay to Grady's point

That's why it was important that the title of the program wasn't just about the churches finding the balance, but it was about the pastors in the pulpit because Put aside the african -american churches who use their pulpits for political purposes every time a woman gets up behind a

Pulpit in what is being advertised as a church? It doesn't matter what's coming out, you know, like that's wrong

She's disobeying the Bible and anyone who put her up there is disobeying the scripture and you're speaking specifically in the role of a preacher not not

The next song that's going to be sung No, yes, no,

I'm talking about in a position to preach a message or to preach the word you can't preach the word

Disobeying the word right so This is but again, that's not the goal.

There is not to How can we please the Lord here? And I know that sounds oh, that's judgmental

You can't say that and I say this with love in my heart. I can't say that only because of what the

Bible teaches so now we're trying to relate to the people in the pew instead of honoring the one who gave us the word and There's a time for fellowship of the believers.

There's a time To get together and have Bible studies and do devotions

But the assembly the church the Lord's Day is not that time That is the time when the preacher stands up the pastor stands up and he preaches the

Word of God And he does it having spent time in the word and studied the word I said recently at a conference

We have no business getting up saying best day at the Lord if we haven't been in our office and in our study

Crying out Abba Father. There's there's not a personal walk and there's not going to be an authoritative message

You can copy and paste the sermon nowadays, right? I mean you can you can buy sermons online

I mean you think I'm joking you can you can go online and purchase sermon outlines you can you can do all these things and A lot of that's done because what's trending?

What's popular? Well, you know, what's the vibe right now? You know, what? What is the current hot topic?

What's the current? How can we either address it or how can we? Please the people coming in the doors

Oh, these are all wrong reasons and it but it's the fun. It's the fundamental reason why a white pastor a black pastor an

Asian pastor a woman Gets up and Speaks politically, right?

They're there for the crowds sake That's not why we're behind the pulpit. We're ultimately there for the

Lord's sake We are there to help the church for sure that that's that's absolutely true.

But we're there as ambassadors of Christ we're heralds of truth and So To the question, you know,

I think that's a good question I don't know why people wouldn't want to preach the Bible. It should be obvious It should be the thing that we do

I know most of your listeners would readily agree with that and I may be preaching to the choir here, but It's uh, we live in a politically incorrect

I'm sorry truth is politically incorrect nowadays. And so that means pulpits are going to be politically incorrect

But Again, it's balanced. It's I don't want to preach the issues themselves.

I want to preach the biblical Response to those issues. Can I give you a quick example?

Sure Okay, I don't I don't want to I don't want to Frustrate you any more than I already have

On Facebook this and I'm not anti -semitic.

Let me just get that out in the front in front. Okay, I I'm not I we ought to preach the gospel to Jews.

I'm not anti -semitic at all Okay, but and of course there are many multitudes of people who would think that is anti -semitic to preach the gospel for Jesus right

But This is a thing On Facebook.

All right on Twitter. I stand with Israel. I stand with Israel. I stand with Israel and It's a lot of Christians doing it

Like, you know I stand with Israel and They put the little thing on the profile picture and they put the thing on the in the on the

Facebook page All right, and I've asked people this so this is not this is not and this is not

I'm guessing I've had actual conversation with people And I and I we're going to the book of Acts like I've said

I've never heard one pastor Not one commentary that I've read Have I ever anyone or the

Jews persecute Paul the Jews persecute Peter say you know what but they're

God's people So we stand with them If that has never happened the people that say now

I stand with Israel, right? They see the star of David and they get all Twitter faded like oh, these are

God's people. They're not they're not they need the gospel They're lost people that need Christ. They're lost people that need

Christ and let me give you an interesting statistic All right. I'll give you two quickly Did you know that abortion is?

Government funded in Israel It's provided for in Israel and I know a man who lives there and this is nothing under the

Sun It's what the Pharisees were doing 2 ,000 years ago. Now, it's illegal Right.

They've created a law that says well, you know abortion is wrong abortion is legal But if your doctor says that you need it, then it's a medical issue.

So it's not really an abortion So I feel these these ways around it. Okay these loopholes as it were

So abortion is not only allowed in Israel, it's paid for by the government number two is there was a

Article I can forward it to you after the show if you want the top 11 cities in the world that are

LGBTQ friendly and New York City wasn't number one,

San Francisco wasn't number one Tel Aviv Israel was number one The most

LGBTQ friendly city in the world and that they're giving reasons why now

The people that stood with Israel I said, is that the Israel you stand with?

Of course, it's not they it's the idea of Israel, right? It is there that the

Star of David kind of represents them this ideal of God's chosen people But this is this is my point is that you have people who are ignorant of what was really going on in the world but they're you know out there making these statements and They have no idea so I'm I am a hundred percent for people being informed

I think you should be informed because you got to be clear like what Israel do you stand with because that that government is

Not that's not got those aren't God's people like that. That government doesn't represent God I should say

I didn't mean to say they're not what I should have said that government doesn't represent God Just like America's not a

Christian nation He would have said it's not America's under judgment and rightfully so You murder as many babies as our nation has allowed them in the same anywhere else.

It would be too, but But this is this is our But Christianity today, it's it's it's very surface

It's as long as it looks good sounds good we can post things and you know that but Christianity goes so much deeper than that and The only way to mature

Christians up to and is to feed them.

The truth is to feed them the scriptures So that but I just want to give you an example that I was talking about earlier with how

You know Christians today They're not they're not and I'm not condemning pastors,

I'm not but Too many Christians are malnourished. So I'm getting at many

Christians are malnourished today And they just are that they they share a post, you know type.

Amen Click if you like Jesus and it's that it's that kind of stuff and we can't it's no wonder

This goes back to the Spurgeon quote earlier. It's no wonder that they can't they can't stand it

It's no wonder that they're so depressed and all again because Things got tough all of a sudden they think that you know, the world's caving in.

No, you're still a Christian You're here. We're privileged to serve the Lord in this time. We are privileged to represent

Christ at this time and We we have to live like it and as pastors we have to model that right and there of course

And I think that you would agree with me that there is a difference between someone who says that it is wise to support a political ally that most resembles in the

Middle East that is something relatively similar to a constitutional republic even though Israel has always been

A very tainted with socialism and so on but but as far as a political power in the

Middle East they are far more of an ally than Islamic theocracies

Yeah, I'm not I'm not against Israel. My point is right, but this is this is my point here like politically

Absolutely. I'm talking as Christians. Yes Christians who are supposed to be first and foremost

Believers in truth and the word We can't we have to be careful what we put ourselves with so that when you reference earlier the the person who would stand up and say

I support this candidate because well be careful because What if that candidate comes out later and says, you know this?

now You look gullible Christians shouldn't ever Look gullible.

I mean, right. I mean, that's just the last edge right want to be right drive by and or Like oh, you'll believe anything as long as it as long as it agrees with you.

You believe it That's that's not how Christians should be known. Yes, and I was just giving yeah I agree with you and the chosen people are

God's elect from every tribe and tongue and people in nation Not the nation of Israel or not not even

Jews as a people. They are not the chosen people in this day In age ever since the gospel the gospel damn bursted open and the

Gentile nations Were being drawn to God to the point where they were even outnumbering the

Jews the the chosen people are people of all Jew and Gentile alike from every tribe and tongue and people in nation and Aren't you and I grateful for that the middle wall partition broken down between us and pray the

Lord for that but I There's a man and I hope you're able to speak to him one day

But um, I spoke to him recently and this man he's he's passionate about He lives in Jerusalem most of his life he's lived there and he with tears in his eyes was explaining to me his burden for American churches because He said they they view all other places as a mission field and it's almost like the

Jews are just kind of oh, yeah You know, they're God's people. He said but they're not God's people.

They don't they don't have Christ. So they yeah it's much like this but much like the heresy of John Hagee who doesn't even believe believe

Jews need to come to Christ because They are his people already and that's interesting because Jesus is primary audience when he was

Walking the earth were Jews that he was telling to repent So well, you're assuming that John Hagee has studied the

Bible Well, he gives the appearance that he's an expert. Yeah. Yeah, we have to get our final break right now and If you have a question

Please fire it off to us immediately because they're rapidly running out of time Chris Arnson at gmail .com

Chris Arnson at gmail .com give us your first name at least city and state of residence and your country of residence and only remain anonymous if your question involves a

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Welcome back Mike New York asks you pastor

Josh since we are talking about ministerial balance I was wondering where pastor Josh sees eschatology as part of a properly balanced ministry when

I say eschatology I'm not taking I'm not talking times and seasons or the typical sensational nonsense

We hear from so -called prophecy experts. What I am referring to is the great hope comfort and joy

We should experience at the prospect of the glorious second coming of our Lord Jesus When we finally inhabit the new heaven and the new earth where pure righteousness reigns

What could be more comforting than the thought that we will one day see our

Lord just as he is and at the same time? Be free from sin and sinners if you get

With that first of all, I love how you worded it because that is that is exactly Right, that is that that's the answer when

Peter wrote his first epistle He's what we call chapter 5, you know, and he's nearing the end of his lap was letter and he says

To the elders. Okay, he says he tells him feed the feed the flock

Okay, feed the sheep and he talks about leadership. Don't be lords over them But then he says and when the chief shepherds shall appear

He shall receive a crown of glory that faded not away He's telling them you have to feed them and you have to lead them but Keep your eyes up Look look for the

Lord's return and our Bible ends that way, you know there whatever your belief is about Ethnology as far as timing of events and things like that.

All of our Bibles are the exact same way even so come Lord Jesus and What Peter was teaching that those things in his first epistle and the gentleman who who wrote his letter?

and I think If I understood his letter correctly, he agrees with the sentiment Peter had

We can endure because we know what's coming We're strangers and pilgrims here, but we're elect

According to the foreknowledge of God through sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience and the sprinkling of blood that's who we are, you know, it's hard to joke said

I can't see God, but I know God sees me and That Absolutely is what gets us through these difficult times.

Is that what this world is not our home? We are passing through and of course pilgrims here And of course, there is a great danger of being overly critical of others who disagree in eschatology

Even condemning them as being false Christians and some nonsense, you know, the differences between pre mill on mill and post mill

There are those that take a radical view that it's my way or the highway and I don't want any fellowship with you

I'm sure you agree that that's extreme. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I I was gonna say earlier

I'm not anti -semitic and I think that's proven because I do believe in a millennial reign of Christ Fulfilling a prophecy but yeah, but you

I know you don't and yet you and I are friends and we get along just fine At least I think we are Well, I got to give you

I got to give your website because we're out of time it's Laramore ntbc .org

Laramore l -a -r -i -m -o -r -e Ntbc .org.

Thank you so much pastor Josh for being such a great guest I look forward to your return and I want to thank everybody who listened and I want you all to always remember